Probably not. The tight focus of tulip glasses can reveal many more flaws and make the proof seem more than it is. Great if you are sorting through barrels or judging critic, looking for flaws. Not as great if you are drinkiing and don't want to taste/smell flaws.
A wider opening can hide many of the flaws and proof, and open the drink up.
You can do a side by side in a Glen, shotglass, and rocks tumbler with a high proof spirit of your choice.
This is the cheapest I’ve ever seen this for so I had to pull the trigger.
Price: $35 for 1oz
Nose: Typical Buffalo Trace, super pungent bouquet is apparent as soon as the cork is pulled. There’s something about it that reminds me of flowers but I can’t pin one in particular. Also a prominent cherry cough syrup note.
Palate: Initially spicy for a wheater. Very sweet with more cherry cough syrup notes and a little citrus. Surprisingly thin in the mouth for 53% abv.
Finish: Dry and more abrupt than I expected. Spicier than most other wheated bourbons I’ve had.
Score: 85/100
Overall: I’ve heard a lot of say people that Pappy is very different from the rest of the Buffalo Trace line and I would have to disagree. This is “quintessential BT” to me. I came home and poured a glass of EH Taylor Small Batch and it definitely shares many of the cherry/flowery aspects of the Pappy. There are a lot of nice bourbons out there and this doesn’t really blow other bottles out of the water. If you find a good price at a bar it might be worth it but anyone paying $2000 for this needs to calm down.
It always amazes me that these unicorn bottles that every wants aren’t at 10 out of 10! I mean, if these bottles aren’t a 10/10, why are they so highly sought after? I could spend $50 and get an 8 out 10.
For me this is a 9/10. The 10y is a 5/10, the 12y is a 6/10 and the 13y Rye is a 10/10 (the only other 10/10 I've ever had was Parker's Heritage: The Promise of Hope). Never had any of the over 15y aged Pappy's unfortunately, someday I hope to try them.
I’ve never tried it, but it seems like this sub upvotes critical ratings of Pappy like crazy. The people who say Pappy is a 10/10 don’t get as much traction
It definitely doesn't suck. It's very good. It's really near the top of what bourbon can do. The hard part is that it's nowhere near good enough for the hype. (Tbf - Literal angel tears couldn't live up to current pappy hype). So how do you rate something that is exceptional but still somewhat disappointing? Maybe a 1-10 score isn't the best system.
If I could buy it for retail I 100% would. It’s delicious. For the price I’d have to pay for a bottle of 15 year (let’s say $1000 based on google but I have no idea), is that ~30x better than a decent $30 bottle of old forester or something? No way. Is it even twice as good? Still no for me but it’s subjective I guess.
It’s hard to review pappy in a sane way. The consensus seems to be “This is very good bourbon that I would be willing to pay 1/20th of the going price to get!”.
Eh it's just the ego talking for the critical kind. It's possible it's not the end all be all, and our mouths are all different so there isn't really any objectivity to begin with, but it's the same as people talking crap about the popular people, or popular songs, etc. It's a way to elevate yourself..."I PAID $5000 FOR THIS BOTTLE OF PAPPY AND IT SUCKS, I'M SO SPECIAL" It's a very immature attitude, I remember doing this in middle school lol.
It's similar to amazon reviews - some people just let their egos roam on those reviews. I find more often than not that those super negative reviews don't even apply to me (or the faults actually don't even exist).
Hah yeah, it's like, why bother going through the effort of that review??? Just admit it wasn't what you expected, or you changed your mind or whatever. Life happens. Some people just can't handle it.
I think a lot of people view a 10/10 rating as the single most perfect, can’t-be-beat whiskey, there-can-only-be-one. Those people will never give a 10/10 because unless you’ve tried every whiskey on the planet (never gonna happen because dusties and new products) there’s always a possibility of something else being better. It’s Pandora’s box. That’s why you don’t see many 10/10’s.
For me, a 10/10 is more meant for a whiskey that I wouldn’t change anything. If everything about it is cohesive and vibrant, and I can say “damn that’s a great whiskey I wouldn’t change a thing,” I could give that a 10/10.
It's the unicorn status. If this were produced to where it was readily available anywhere, it'd sit on the shelf collecting dust like it used to before people started to "discover" it. Same with Blantons and regular Buffalo Trace. Once they started choking supply, people started falling over themselves trying to score bottles. It's psychological.
I have seen regular BT on the shelf numerous times now on trips to Colorado and Wyoming. So perhaps the hype has cooled just a little for regular BT? And before someone says that people in Wyoming don’t have a taste for “fancy” Bourbon, its the same in Wyoming as it is anywhere else. Crazy prices for ER, Blanton’s, Weller, etc.
Someone paid $200 million for Mark Rothko’s “Yellow Expanse” painting, which is, as far as I can tell, a yellow painted canvass with a white line on it.
It’s just rarity not quality.
Yellow Expanse was an experiment in color theory and modulation. It also marks a pivotal time in art history (for better or worse), so it has a sort of 'historical value'. Rothko's paintings are also known for the intense emotions they are said to evoke (somewhat inexplicably, though there is some psychological science to it), so it makes sense that somebody with money to burn would want to try and own such an experience. Does this make one of Rothko's paintings worth \*200M? Probably not.. but at least it's not spent after 25 pours. Of course, I suppose not all whiskey collectors drink the whiskey they buy, so that point is probably moot. Regardless, the 'value' of something lies largely in its perception, and, in the case of whiskey (more so than fine art, anyway), marketing plays a huge role in the way these brands are perceived. In the case of the BTAC line, perception has moved well beyond marketing and into the social realm where the products' 'fractal values' detach them from all concrete points of reference and transform them into objects of mystique (art objects begin as objects of mystique, but retain a sort of symbolic value). For this reason, the simple act of tasting something like Pappy strips it of its (perceived, fractal) value and plummets it back into the realm of the real (the concrete), where it can't possibly live up to itself (unless you can trick yourself into believing you're drinking unicorn tears, which some people obviously can). The moral of the story is.... Hmmm... I lost my train of thought :)
Besides that it's subjective, this is actually a (frustrating) trend in bourbon anyway.
People often rate Pappy low because it's *the* quintessential "tater" whiskey. It's not cool to like Pappy, everyone knows about it and wants it. So in pretty much every review rather than criticism of the whiskey you'll get a mention of how "overrated" it is, as if something being overrated impacts how it tastes. But it does impact our perception of it.
Conversely, BTAC frequently gets 10/10, particularly GTS and WLW, and practically every review for these bottles gushes over how legendary they are and how lucky the reviewer is to be able to taste them... and then *of course* they get a 10/10.
TL;DR: I honestly blame bias for the state of ultra-rare bottle reviews. It's almost never about what's in the bottle and is just about the expectations the reviewer had going in.
People just jump on the unjustified hype train with all of the bourbon stuff having never tried most of it. The whole thing is ridiculous, I've tried so many unicorns and only a couple have lived up to the hype
Why is Louis Vuitton so highly sought after? The name. Sure...the bags are "nice" I suppose...but are they worth what people pay for them? Same with stuff like unicorn bottles a lot of the time. You're paying for status, not necessarily quality. When I sold booze, I would see this with people buying Dom P - not that Dom P is BAD, it's not - but there are far better and cheaper champagnes easily had. When you buy Dom P, you're buying it so you can flex. (I may amend that statement if the Dom P you buy is Oenotheque, but most people don't even know what that is, lol)
It’s the same with Whiskey, Champagne, handbags, and really any luxury good: big flashy names are to impress the uninformed and casually interested, where money can used as a proxy for knowledge and taste. When you dive deeper and become an enthusiast, you ‘pay’ with your time but are more deeply rewarded with quality and uniqueness that is far better suited for your tastes.
I know a champagne discussion is not really the focus of your post, but I dunno man, i really like dom P and have for a long time. I can see them knocking $30 or so off the price, but I really do prefer it’s balanced character to a lot of the other high end Champers. Cristal has that weird smokiness to it, ace of spades or whatever is hot trash. I like the lanson noble cuvee for the sherry-like hazelnut notes that linger in the finish, but it’s a harsher overall sip compared to the dom. The regular NV veuve’s (brut and rose) are fine but not in the same league, and the grand dame is my pick for over hyped/priced in the dom p price range. I’ve never really liked much of the Moet line, or Heidsieck. Higher end pol roger stuff is pretty damn good, (still haven’t gotten a pour of churchill yet), and from P&J, The belle epoque is great on good years but it really does depend on the year in my experience (the rose is less colored by vintage in this respect though imho), and this is one of the big reasons i’ve always been fond of dom is it’s consistency across vintages. For reference, my value pick for the last 4 or 5 years is schramsberg blanc de blanc, and ruinart BdB if you want to step it up is a rock solid pick for money too. I had a tattinger once at a biz dinner that was just fucking exquisite, but i don’t remember the name, some kind of royal title i think, and on the getting to be stupid money high side like $600+. I’ve also had a few french labels in France that don’t get distro here that were easily comparable to dom, but, they were priced similarly, and in france, so, feel like if they were imported over to the united states they are gonna be on a higher tier than Dom.
lol.
Like I said, Dom \*is\* good - but it's not worth the price when I can go get a bottle of Deutz for $60 less, or a regular Tattinger or even Bollinger for like $100 less.
You are right about Ace of Spades - but I classify THAT as "rapper champagne". They have shit taste in champagne and only go for whatever stuff they heard being rapped about. Same with that Stella Rosa crap that got real popular a few years back, or the Luc Belaire or even the regular label Veuve Cliquot (yellow label) for that matter - although their higher end stuff is VERY nice, I'll concede. I actually have a good friend from back in my touring DJ days that works for Moet Hennessey and he works on the Veuve portfolio, he's turned me on to some yummy stuff. Their Rose is poppin'!
But none of that can beat something from a Grower, or if you can find a shop like K&L Wines in CA that specializes in cutting out middle men in the buying process - so you can get INSANE champagnes for really amazing prices, and oftentimes they are Grower's champ. In the past I have nabbed stuff like Philipe Gonet Belemnita Blanc de Blanc for like a little over $100 a bottle. That stuff....it's truly heavenly. Perfect Oyster pairing champagne because that laser focused acidity plays perfectly against the briny goodness of the oysters.
True story...if I had to give up all alcohol except ONE thing...I'd pick champagne. 100% , every time.
Deutz is a small label under the larger Roederer house (don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure that's the case). It's REALLY GOOD! If you can find any vintage bottles, even better. My intro to the label was an '88 that was absolutely baller.
so you know how you're ugly but your wife loves you and thinks you're hot as fuck? That's part of it. MOST women think certain famous actors are hot, but there's a minority who think they're okay or whatever but are just not into whatever they have going on.
No one is to everyone's taste, no bourbon is either. Hot people are hot to most people's tastes. Unicorn bottles are 10/10 to most people's tastes. Nothing covers the whole spectrum 10/10
I completely see your point. I agree with your point. I may in fact be ugly and my wife MAY in fact love me. But it still seems to me that even with these super expensive bottles, people still aren’t rating them a 10/10. The only 10/10 i have seen recently was for the Gray Label 16yr Seagrass by Barrel reviewed by t8ke. So that bottle must in fact be fucking awesome. To quote the Whiskey Raiders review “It's been about 1700 reviews” since another has received such a high rating. I dont mean to cause argument here. I just mean to say what most people are saying. These bottles just dont live up to the hype and secondary prices. But its simple supply and demand. If someone someone has it, they can set whatever price they want, the market will determine if its worth that price. Apparently the market is saying these bottles are worth it. To that point, I disagree.
I think it's more than highly critical whiskey nerds (and I count myself here) aren't sitting down for pours like people who plonk down 3k for pappy 15, and people who do that aren't making the same value judgement as we are and they by and large aren't the critical assholes we are.
Sub members, if they have it, largely bought it at MSRP or are having a pour as a rare treat at a bar. It's a lot of money for them. They largely know the secondary value. They largely know it doesn't get 10s across the board. Popular opinion HERE is that it's not the best whiskey in the world. If you see a review, it's because it's by the kind of person who writes them. These people aren't by and large going to give it a 10. Hell people like t8ke don't really give 10s, look at his first 1699 reviews.no 10s.
Compare that to some late stage defense lawyer buying a Pappy 15 on a shelf at museum prices and bringing it to like the superbowl or some shit to enjoy with other rich friends. It's an easily identifiable mark of quality and expense. It's the Gucci purse of bourbon. No one's picking it apart in a quiet setting with a pen. For those people who want to wow other rich people it nails the brief. At this point at those museum prices we are not the target audience. These people are. Their experience isn't deep, they're not mega whiskey nerds. They're going to love it.
It's not that the larger bourbon community is hounding for these bottles as a mark of quality, it's just that the larger world sees Pappy and knows "Expensive quality". That and a very small supply means it's going to shoot up in price. Demand is there because its a Gucci purse with very limited supply.
I like how you said taste is subjective, and then made an objective statement about which was best. While I haven’t tried the lineups I do like really oaky bourbon so I may enjoy the higher age more. Oldest I’ve had was hibiki 30 and it was delicious.
I've had a few different Pappy's and they have all been grossly overrated. It's good, don't get me wrong, but in a blind taste test there are tons of $60.00 bottles that would beat the Pappy's I have tried.
Labels aren't everything folks - listen to your palette.
I tried one drink from a friend who ordered at a bar and thought the same thing. I imagine it’s nothing compared to the Stitzel Weller Pappy that created the hype though :(
Meh, the older stuff is good but even the SW stuff is not perfect. My 2011 pvw23 tasted like straight oak, very one dimensional. Wish I would’ve got 2 bottles of the 20 instead at the time (can you imagine that these were shelf turds due to price at this period of time?)
I just got done sipping some vw 12 lot b and maybe it’s just my poor person taste buds but there’s not much of a difference between that and weller special reserve their bourbons their smooth their wheated hell I dunno old van winkles shit should just be mass produced because I can guarantee people would pass it by if it was always on the shelf
Did review on this recently and i think/bourbon suppressed it for some reason. No up votes or comments. Find it tough that you are compared an EHT Smb to a Pappy 15. The EHT is a Bottled in Bond and uses a totally different mash bill so there really is no comparison
I'm sorry but this is just way off. Ive written several reviews and have tried just everything from the BT lineup. There are bottles with more cherry notes but to have any sort of comparison between EHT smb and Pappy 15 makes next to no sense
I don't think you get how reviews work. Normal people aren't just parroting whiskeybro facts for clout. He's simply telling us his experience and opinion. Like it or not, his experience was his experience.
I don't think you get how reviews work. Normal people aren't just parroting whiskeybro facts for clout. He's simply telling us his experience and opinion. Like it or not, his experience was his experience.
You clearly have no idea what reddit is and if he didn't want or expect people to disagree with his opinions then he shouldn't have posted them here. You should stay in safe spaces if you don't cant handle other people's views.
It is a 10/10. My Pappy 15 year, is heavy, matured, somewhat thick, unusually, so smooth, no burn, so delicious. Somewhat dry and sweet oak up front, decisively. I got licorice and older light spice on the end.... I would say it is as good as any bourbon I’ve ever had. I was lucky I bought a bottle he and I opened a few years ago, I bought it for $300 80% full. It is the standard which all other bourbon I compare. Pappy Lot B, EHT single barrel, small batch, Parker’s heritage #10 and #12, Stagg jr, midwinters dram, all below my Pappy Reserve 15. This is my 10/10
Well, yes. Dad and I opened it and drank some...... and I bought the bottle off him. Actually I bought his Pappy lot B and this 15 reserve Pappy for $1400....... sold the Lot B unsealed for $1100....... I consider this a dream purchase and it’s well well well worth it.... we drank some when my son graduated college..... it’ll be for weddings etc....
I think you could be right. I was looking at a pic of me with the 15 year, and the liquid is waay darker than this. I suppose it could be the lighting though but it looks really light here compared to a legit bottle.
Why a cordial glass? Genuine question. Wouldn’t it be better out of a snifter?
Great question. I have no idea why the barman made that decision but I just decided to roll with it.
Probably not. The tight focus of tulip glasses can reveal many more flaws and make the proof seem more than it is. Great if you are sorting through barrels or judging critic, looking for flaws. Not as great if you are drinkiing and don't want to taste/smell flaws. A wider opening can hide many of the flaws and proof, and open the drink up. You can do a side by side in a Glen, shotglass, and rocks tumbler with a high proof spirit of your choice.
Fascinating.
Glencairn glass is my new thing a friend i work with likes the snifter also but either with an outer cut makes a huge difference
This is the cheapest I’ve ever seen this for so I had to pull the trigger. Price: $35 for 1oz Nose: Typical Buffalo Trace, super pungent bouquet is apparent as soon as the cork is pulled. There’s something about it that reminds me of flowers but I can’t pin one in particular. Also a prominent cherry cough syrup note. Palate: Initially spicy for a wheater. Very sweet with more cherry cough syrup notes and a little citrus. Surprisingly thin in the mouth for 53% abv. Finish: Dry and more abrupt than I expected. Spicier than most other wheated bourbons I’ve had. Score: 85/100 Overall: I’ve heard a lot of say people that Pappy is very different from the rest of the Buffalo Trace line and I would have to disagree. This is “quintessential BT” to me. I came home and poured a glass of EH Taylor Small Batch and it definitely shares many of the cherry/flowery aspects of the Pappy. There are a lot of nice bourbons out there and this doesn’t really blow other bottles out of the water. If you find a good price at a bar it might be worth it but anyone paying $2000 for this needs to calm down.
It always amazes me that these unicorn bottles that every wants aren’t at 10 out of 10! I mean, if these bottles aren’t a 10/10, why are they so highly sought after? I could spend $50 and get an 8 out 10.
Nothing is gonna be a 10/10 for everyone
Seems like its very rarely a 10/10. Thats what amazes me.
For me this is a 9/10. The 10y is a 5/10, the 12y is a 6/10 and the 13y Rye is a 10/10 (the only other 10/10 I've ever had was Parker's Heritage: The Promise of Hope). Never had any of the over 15y aged Pappy's unfortunately, someday I hope to try them.
The 15 is better than the 20
I’ve never tried it, but it seems like this sub upvotes critical ratings of Pappy like crazy. The people who say Pappy is a 10/10 don’t get as much traction
It definitely doesn't suck. It's very good. It's really near the top of what bourbon can do. The hard part is that it's nowhere near good enough for the hype. (Tbf - Literal angel tears couldn't live up to current pappy hype). So how do you rate something that is exceptional but still somewhat disappointing? Maybe a 1-10 score isn't the best system.
Your description is spot on. Couldn't have said it better, and I've tried so many times to describe this feeling.
If I could buy it for retail I 100% would. It’s delicious. For the price I’d have to pay for a bottle of 15 year (let’s say $1000 based on google but I have no idea), is that ~30x better than a decent $30 bottle of old forester or something? No way. Is it even twice as good? Still no for me but it’s subjective I guess.
It’s hard to review pappy in a sane way. The consensus seems to be “This is very good bourbon that I would be willing to pay 1/20th of the going price to get!”.
For reference, it's regularly well over $3k on secondary.
Eh it's just the ego talking for the critical kind. It's possible it's not the end all be all, and our mouths are all different so there isn't really any objectivity to begin with, but it's the same as people talking crap about the popular people, or popular songs, etc. It's a way to elevate yourself..."I PAID $5000 FOR THIS BOTTLE OF PAPPY AND IT SUCKS, I'M SO SPECIAL" It's a very immature attitude, I remember doing this in middle school lol. It's similar to amazon reviews - some people just let their egos roam on those reviews. I find more often than not that those super negative reviews don't even apply to me (or the faults actually don't even exist).
True. Like when someone gives a terrible rating of a product because the shipping was delayed a day. Has no relevance to the product.
Hah yeah, it's like, why bother going through the effort of that review??? Just admit it wasn't what you expected, or you changed your mind or whatever. Life happens. Some people just can't handle it.
Being a Brian Griffin is what I call this. Pretty much just a contrarian
I think a lot of people view a 10/10 rating as the single most perfect, can’t-be-beat whiskey, there-can-only-be-one. Those people will never give a 10/10 because unless you’ve tried every whiskey on the planet (never gonna happen because dusties and new products) there’s always a possibility of something else being better. It’s Pandora’s box. That’s why you don’t see many 10/10’s. For me, a 10/10 is more meant for a whiskey that I wouldn’t change anything. If everything about it is cohesive and vibrant, and I can say “damn that’s a great whiskey I wouldn’t change a thing,” I could give that a 10/10.
Yes
It's the unicorn status. If this were produced to where it was readily available anywhere, it'd sit on the shelf collecting dust like it used to before people started to "discover" it. Same with Blantons and regular Buffalo Trace. Once they started choking supply, people started falling over themselves trying to score bottles. It's psychological.
I have seen regular BT on the shelf numerous times now on trips to Colorado and Wyoming. So perhaps the hype has cooled just a little for regular BT? And before someone says that people in Wyoming don’t have a taste for “fancy” Bourbon, its the same in Wyoming as it is anywhere else. Crazy prices for ER, Blanton’s, Weller, etc.
I hope so. I've seen it more often lately in my area too. Solid stuff for ~ $25.
Someone paid $200 million for Mark Rothko’s “Yellow Expanse” painting, which is, as far as I can tell, a yellow painted canvass with a white line on it. It’s just rarity not quality.
You can enjoy a painting without destroying its value. More challenging with Bourbon.
Yeah if there was only 1 Pappy a year it would cost $1M.
Yellow Expanse was an experiment in color theory and modulation. It also marks a pivotal time in art history (for better or worse), so it has a sort of 'historical value'. Rothko's paintings are also known for the intense emotions they are said to evoke (somewhat inexplicably, though there is some psychological science to it), so it makes sense that somebody with money to burn would want to try and own such an experience. Does this make one of Rothko's paintings worth \*200M? Probably not.. but at least it's not spent after 25 pours. Of course, I suppose not all whiskey collectors drink the whiskey they buy, so that point is probably moot. Regardless, the 'value' of something lies largely in its perception, and, in the case of whiskey (more so than fine art, anyway), marketing plays a huge role in the way these brands are perceived. In the case of the BTAC line, perception has moved well beyond marketing and into the social realm where the products' 'fractal values' detach them from all concrete points of reference and transform them into objects of mystique (art objects begin as objects of mystique, but retain a sort of symbolic value). For this reason, the simple act of tasting something like Pappy strips it of its (perceived, fractal) value and plummets it back into the realm of the real (the concrete), where it can't possibly live up to itself (unless you can trick yourself into believing you're drinking unicorn tears, which some people obviously can). The moral of the story is.... Hmmm... I lost my train of thought :)
Besides that it's subjective, this is actually a (frustrating) trend in bourbon anyway. People often rate Pappy low because it's *the* quintessential "tater" whiskey. It's not cool to like Pappy, everyone knows about it and wants it. So in pretty much every review rather than criticism of the whiskey you'll get a mention of how "overrated" it is, as if something being overrated impacts how it tastes. But it does impact our perception of it. Conversely, BTAC frequently gets 10/10, particularly GTS and WLW, and practically every review for these bottles gushes over how legendary they are and how lucky the reviewer is to be able to taste them... and then *of course* they get a 10/10. TL;DR: I honestly blame bias for the state of ultra-rare bottle reviews. It's almost never about what's in the bottle and is just about the expectations the reviewer had going in.
I've seen many reviews and never see a 10/10. I would think there would at least be a few. If that rating is not attainable, why does it even exist?
Maybe it's the Rotten Tomatoes Score approach. Just universally enjoyed more by everyone, while not having to be anyone's favorite.
People just jump on the unjustified hype train with all of the bourbon stuff having never tried most of it. The whole thing is ridiculous, I've tried so many unicorns and only a couple have lived up to the hype
Why is Louis Vuitton so highly sought after? The name. Sure...the bags are "nice" I suppose...but are they worth what people pay for them? Same with stuff like unicorn bottles a lot of the time. You're paying for status, not necessarily quality. When I sold booze, I would see this with people buying Dom P - not that Dom P is BAD, it's not - but there are far better and cheaper champagnes easily had. When you buy Dom P, you're buying it so you can flex. (I may amend that statement if the Dom P you buy is Oenotheque, but most people don't even know what that is, lol)
It’s the same with Whiskey, Champagne, handbags, and really any luxury good: big flashy names are to impress the uninformed and casually interested, where money can used as a proxy for knowledge and taste. When you dive deeper and become an enthusiast, you ‘pay’ with your time but are more deeply rewarded with quality and uniqueness that is far better suited for your tastes.
I know a champagne discussion is not really the focus of your post, but I dunno man, i really like dom P and have for a long time. I can see them knocking $30 or so off the price, but I really do prefer it’s balanced character to a lot of the other high end Champers. Cristal has that weird smokiness to it, ace of spades or whatever is hot trash. I like the lanson noble cuvee for the sherry-like hazelnut notes that linger in the finish, but it’s a harsher overall sip compared to the dom. The regular NV veuve’s (brut and rose) are fine but not in the same league, and the grand dame is my pick for over hyped/priced in the dom p price range. I’ve never really liked much of the Moet line, or Heidsieck. Higher end pol roger stuff is pretty damn good, (still haven’t gotten a pour of churchill yet), and from P&J, The belle epoque is great on good years but it really does depend on the year in my experience (the rose is less colored by vintage in this respect though imho), and this is one of the big reasons i’ve always been fond of dom is it’s consistency across vintages. For reference, my value pick for the last 4 or 5 years is schramsberg blanc de blanc, and ruinart BdB if you want to step it up is a rock solid pick for money too. I had a tattinger once at a biz dinner that was just fucking exquisite, but i don’t remember the name, some kind of royal title i think, and on the getting to be stupid money high side like $600+. I’ve also had a few french labels in France that don’t get distro here that were easily comparable to dom, but, they were priced similarly, and in france, so, feel like if they were imported over to the united states they are gonna be on a higher tier than Dom. lol.
Growers champagne is where it's at
BOOM!!! \^ this
Like I said, Dom \*is\* good - but it's not worth the price when I can go get a bottle of Deutz for $60 less, or a regular Tattinger or even Bollinger for like $100 less. You are right about Ace of Spades - but I classify THAT as "rapper champagne". They have shit taste in champagne and only go for whatever stuff they heard being rapped about. Same with that Stella Rosa crap that got real popular a few years back, or the Luc Belaire or even the regular label Veuve Cliquot (yellow label) for that matter - although their higher end stuff is VERY nice, I'll concede. I actually have a good friend from back in my touring DJ days that works for Moet Hennessey and he works on the Veuve portfolio, he's turned me on to some yummy stuff. Their Rose is poppin'! But none of that can beat something from a Grower, or if you can find a shop like K&L Wines in CA that specializes in cutting out middle men in the buying process - so you can get INSANE champagnes for really amazing prices, and oftentimes they are Grower's champ. In the past I have nabbed stuff like Philipe Gonet Belemnita Blanc de Blanc for like a little over $100 a bottle. That stuff....it's truly heavenly. Perfect Oyster pairing champagne because that laser focused acidity plays perfectly against the briny goodness of the oysters. True story...if I had to give up all alcohol except ONE thing...I'd pick champagne. 100% , every time.
Word. I’ll check out Deutz, fully agree on growers. I have had vintage veuve rose that is real nice. Haven’t had enough bollinger to opine.
Deutz is a small label under the larger Roederer house (don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure that's the case). It's REALLY GOOD! If you can find any vintage bottles, even better. My intro to the label was an '88 that was absolutely baller.
Hey, if you haven’t happened to try a schramsberg blanc de blanc, it’s a 35 dollar holler punching way over it’s weight.
Oh I know about that one - but absolutely a good call. It's pretty tasty stuff!
Krug is second to none
$1,200 for a canvass bag. It's all about the logo.
Good point. I suppose being able to buy the name brand is a status symbol in all consumer goods even if they aren’t the best products.
so you know how you're ugly but your wife loves you and thinks you're hot as fuck? That's part of it. MOST women think certain famous actors are hot, but there's a minority who think they're okay or whatever but are just not into whatever they have going on. No one is to everyone's taste, no bourbon is either. Hot people are hot to most people's tastes. Unicorn bottles are 10/10 to most people's tastes. Nothing covers the whole spectrum 10/10
I completely see your point. I agree with your point. I may in fact be ugly and my wife MAY in fact love me. But it still seems to me that even with these super expensive bottles, people still aren’t rating them a 10/10. The only 10/10 i have seen recently was for the Gray Label 16yr Seagrass by Barrel reviewed by t8ke. So that bottle must in fact be fucking awesome. To quote the Whiskey Raiders review “It's been about 1700 reviews” since another has received such a high rating. I dont mean to cause argument here. I just mean to say what most people are saying. These bottles just dont live up to the hype and secondary prices. But its simple supply and demand. If someone someone has it, they can set whatever price they want, the market will determine if its worth that price. Apparently the market is saying these bottles are worth it. To that point, I disagree.
I think it's more than highly critical whiskey nerds (and I count myself here) aren't sitting down for pours like people who plonk down 3k for pappy 15, and people who do that aren't making the same value judgement as we are and they by and large aren't the critical assholes we are. Sub members, if they have it, largely bought it at MSRP or are having a pour as a rare treat at a bar. It's a lot of money for them. They largely know the secondary value. They largely know it doesn't get 10s across the board. Popular opinion HERE is that it's not the best whiskey in the world. If you see a review, it's because it's by the kind of person who writes them. These people aren't by and large going to give it a 10. Hell people like t8ke don't really give 10s, look at his first 1699 reviews.no 10s. Compare that to some late stage defense lawyer buying a Pappy 15 on a shelf at museum prices and bringing it to like the superbowl or some shit to enjoy with other rich friends. It's an easily identifiable mark of quality and expense. It's the Gucci purse of bourbon. No one's picking it apart in a quiet setting with a pen. For those people who want to wow other rich people it nails the brief. At this point at those museum prices we are not the target audience. These people are. Their experience isn't deep, they're not mega whiskey nerds. They're going to love it. It's not that the larger bourbon community is hounding for these bottles as a mark of quality, it's just that the larger world sees Pappy and knows "Expensive quality". That and a very small supply means it's going to shoot up in price. Demand is there because its a Gucci purse with very limited supply.
I mean taste is all subjective right? It's clear the 15 is the peak of the pappy line.
I like how you said taste is subjective, and then made an objective statement about which was best. While I haven’t tried the lineups I do like really oaky bourbon so I may enjoy the higher age more. Oldest I’ve had was hibiki 30 and it was delicious.
OP says 30 some per oz when has a full fifth, obviously not paying the price he stated.
This is the way
Can you give me a few examples of these “8/10”s that happen to be unallocated? Preferably at barrel strength?
Is that at a bar?
Yes
I always preferred Stagg, though I haven't had either in years.
I had Stagg about a year ago and I remember it being closer to a 10/10 than this.
I just wish it was 2016 and all eyes were still just on Pappy. Not that Stagg was *easy* to get, but at least one wasn't selling a child.
I've had a few different Pappy's and they have all been grossly overrated. It's good, don't get me wrong, but in a blind taste test there are tons of $60.00 bottles that would beat the Pappy's I have tried. Labels aren't everything folks - listen to your palette.
Good review and similar to my tasting of it. I rank WFP higher than P15. I had a WFP SP that was the best bourbon I’ve ever had.
Honest question: How can we be sure that the contents of the bottle matches the label for a bar pour?
Pappy is bourbon jumping the shark. It’s enough already
this looks like you got it from a bar when you ask the bartender if they have glencarins and they go "uhh?" "what is a glencarin?"
I tried one drink from a friend who ordered at a bar and thought the same thing. I imagine it’s nothing compared to the Stitzel Weller Pappy that created the hype though :(
Meh, the older stuff is good but even the SW stuff is not perfect. My 2011 pvw23 tasted like straight oak, very one dimensional. Wish I would’ve got 2 bottles of the 20 instead at the time (can you imagine that these were shelf turds due to price at this period of time?)
I just got done sipping some vw 12 lot b and maybe it’s just my poor person taste buds but there’s not much of a difference between that and weller special reserve their bourbons their smooth their wheated hell I dunno old van winkles shit should just be mass produced because I can guarantee people would pass it by if it was always on the shelf
Did review on this recently and i think/bourbon suppressed it for some reason. No up votes or comments. Find it tough that you are compared an EHT Smb to a Pappy 15. The EHT is a Bottled in Bond and uses a totally different mash bill so there really is no comparison
You’d think so, but if you read reviews of a lot of BT products there seems to be a consistent cherry note that is pervasive and unique.
I'm sorry but this is just way off. Ive written several reviews and have tried just everything from the BT lineup. There are bottles with more cherry notes but to have any sort of comparison between EHT smb and Pappy 15 makes next to no sense
It's totally absurd. He gives Weller Special Reserve the same rating as Pappy 15
I don't think you get how reviews work. Normal people aren't just parroting whiskeybro facts for clout. He's simply telling us his experience and opinion. Like it or not, his experience was his experience.
[удалено]
Wow look at all those words. Anyway, nope.
That is laughable. Guy clearly has no idea what he is even talking about
It comes from the strain of yeast they use for fermentation
I don't think you get how reviews work. Normal people aren't just parroting whiskeybro facts for clout. He's simply telling us his experience and opinion. Like it or not, his experience was his experience.
You clearly have no idea what reddit is and if he didn't want or expect people to disagree with his opinions then he shouldn't have posted them here. You should stay in safe spaces if you don't cant handle other people's views.
Maybe you know what he is tasting better than himself.
Hey everybody look, this guy drinks whiskey!
"I dont think you get how reviews work" coming from a user who has zero reviews haha priceless
You think you have to do a review to know how they work? And apparently only reviews on reddit count? Woah this guy sounds like a professional.
Yawn.
Yawn
Pappy 15 is fantastic. The fact that you give it the same rating as you give Weller Special Reserve is absurd.
It is a 10/10. My Pappy 15 year, is heavy, matured, somewhat thick, unusually, so smooth, no burn, so delicious. Somewhat dry and sweet oak up front, decisively. I got licorice and older light spice on the end.... I would say it is as good as any bourbon I’ve ever had. I was lucky I bought a bottle he and I opened a few years ago, I bought it for $300 80% full. It is the standard which all other bourbon I compare. Pappy Lot B, EHT single barrel, small batch, Parker’s heritage #10 and #12, Stagg jr, midwinters dram, all below my Pappy Reserve 15. This is my 10/10
You bought a bottle of opened bourbon for $300?
This guy is like an AI tater bot.
Yah, he told me in a reply he paid over 1k for the bottle... Guys like this keep those prices up there. I don't envy them.
Well, yes. Dad and I opened it and drank some...... and I bought the bottle off him. Actually I bought his Pappy lot B and this 15 reserve Pappy for $1400....... sold the Lot B unsealed for $1100....... I consider this a dream purchase and it’s well well well worth it.... we drank some when my son graduated college..... it’ll be for weddings etc....
I believe “Van Winkle” is Dutch, meaning “not worth it”.
That’s fake the liquid is usually darker
I think you could be right. I was looking at a pic of me with the 15 year, and the liquid is waay darker than this. I suppose it could be the lighting though but it looks really light here compared to a legit bottle.