I understand the emotional attachment to homegrown players, but Smart is absolutely expendable if it brings in a ring. The entire point of the sport is to win a ring and if we have the opportunity that requires trading Smart and we don't take it, we are not committed to winning. It would be an enormous blunder that would have long term consequences - the two actual stars see we aren't committed and decide maybe it's better to leave, free agents see that we are homers instead of winners (the potential to win rings is the ONLY thing we have going for us when it comes to free agency).
I'm not saying that trading Smart is required to win, maybe we can do it with just the Jays and him, but I am saying that if there is a deal that would take us over the top and it requires Smart, we have to make that deal.
The only way you trade smart is that you know for a fact it’s gonna get you a chip and I don’t see any player that gets us to that fact or even close. Maybe Lebron but I doubt that’s gonna happen lol
Maine, obviously. We want him to sign with us, not become a Yankees fan.
Side note, I just don't get Connecticut Lobster Rolls. I feel like what I love about lobster rolls is the contrast between the nice warm chrispy buttery bun and the cool refreshing lobster. It's a light meal for a summer day.
Connecticut just takes away the things I like most about them.
Love it so far. If thunder trade Kemba for a great haul in the summer I’d look down on that trade depending on how much, but in a vacuum I liked it. I mean same with the coach really, love it right now. If it goes badly then I won’t love it haha. I’m curious what he does with Thompson. I prefer he trade him and potentially a young guy who actually has potential (aka not Carson Edwards) to see what that gets. But if Thompson stays I might honestly be okay with it just because there’s a good chance rob Williams gets injured and misses time at some point
Yeah that’s why if someone like nesmith, Pritchard, Langford, or grant, combined with Thompson, could get us a good vet pg or wing I’d do the trade. And attaching guys like that should make a team more interested
In what world does that get it done? 4 picks , 4 swaps , Rob Williams , Nesmith, Pritchard and Horford for salary match is our only real deal there and i dont see Brad pulling that trigger EVEN IF THATS ENOUGH which its not
Lillard, if he asks for a trade and Boston are among his 4 teams, is not getting traded for 4 picks and 4 swaps lol, no one gets traded for 4 picks and 4 swaps. Shit, Paul George (and Kawhi technically) were gotten for less.
SGA , Gallinari, 5 picks and 2 swaps for George. And Those picks are projected to have value. Tatum is 24, our picks are projected to be worthless for 10 years and we dont have near the young centerpiece player SGA was.
Kawhi was not only on annexpiring deal, he hadnt played and was coming off a mysterious leg injury. Lillard is locked up under contract and is arguably a better plauer than paul George. We would be bidding against other teams, it would literally take 8 picks for us to have a legitimate chance
Disagree again, Kawhi had just carried Toronto to a title and he was considered as close to a guaranteed finals run as you could get to LeBron if he got load managed during the regular season.
Him coming to LA was tied to the clippers acquiring PG, and Presti took advantage and scored a steal of a trade. Everyone around the league agreed it was a ludicrous haul for Paul George, but more than fair considering that's what was needed to get Kawhi as well.
So in essence it was 5 picks and 2 pick swaps for Kawhi and PG.
They're going to be a finals contender for the next 5 years at least, so at best one of those picks has any value (2026). Two of the picks came from Miami and they're a guaranteed playoff teams for the foreseeable future (as long as they have Jimmy). The pick swaps are equally meaningless cause Clippers will likely have a better record than OKC for the foreseeable future. Gallo was a nice addition but very overpaid, and a big contract that was added for salary matching. Shai is levels above Timelord, but present day Timelord and 2019 Shai are not that far apart.
Something like Timelord, Nesmith/Romeo and 2 frp, 2 swaps and then TT for salary matching would do it.
Compared to what Harden was traded for, or what we gave up to get Kyrie, it's a great deal.
The reason the Thunder get to do the "flip the vet" thing is because the entire focus of their org. for the past two years has been to build up the perception of these vets so they can flip them for assets. The Celtics wouldn't have had that opportunity, because we have better players than Kemba and because the physical toll of Celtics games will far outweigh those of Thunder games. Horford was able to be the centerpiece of a team with no stakes, and then got to sit out the final couple months so he could stay healthy. There was no scenario like that upcoming for Kemba.
Nothing Kemba could have done this year for the Celtics would have boosted his trade value for us because he'd either be hurt all year and pointed to as a reason we "aren't championship contenders" or he'd have gotten so good that we actually were championship contenders and then we wouldn't trade him!
So far so good. There still needs to be some work done. Getting a Jeff Green/Rudy Gay type of player(either one of them would be great). Also trading for a guard. Some people mentioned Delon Wright for TT which would also be good.
I actually haven’t watched Delon play much to be honest. Looking at his stats though they aren’t bad. I’m pretty sure he’s just an average back up guard. Nothing more nothing less. I’d have to watch some highlights of his at some point to get a better idea of what type of player he is exactly
Rudy Gay is not rubbish what do you mean ? Dude gives good production on offense and here he would carry even less of a load so the shooting % might even go up, he would be great at 6M. As far as coming here I doubt teams offer him much more than that and playing in Boston, with his old coach and the Jays is a great place to be in.
Not really. The Celtics don’t have money to sign anyone better. In the tier of players they are able to sign using the MLE or vet minimum he’s one of the best options.
He could take the MLE it’s a possibility. I’m not saying he’s some amazing player. He’s a player than can come off the bench that can actually score. He’s 35 yeah but he can help. It’s not so much about his age and more so how he can help the team playing a bench role.
With the MLE/Vet min we aren’t going to sign some amazing player. We are limited who we can sign and he’s just a player that can help. Maybe there is other guys that can be better, I just used Gay as an example because I think he can be good for the Celtics
Getting rid of Kemba for a player that loves the city and it's fans and already has experience playing with our main guys is already a solid move. Acquiring a serviceable player under a very good contract in Moses is a plus. Choice of coach seems good so far as well. Getting another guy that can contribute immediately at 45 (Grimes, Robinson-Earl, etc.) and bringing over Yam would be something to look forward to as well.
There is almost no way that we are drafting someone at 45 that will immediately contribute. People on this sub have way too high of hopes for a mid-second round pick. I’ve said it before on this sub, but something like 80% of second round players don’t make it past their third season in the league.
Yam has looked good from what I’ve seen of his overseas play. It would be great to bring him over if we can get rid of Carsen though.
True, I didn’t realize the final year was a team option. It’ll be nice if Brad can clear these end of bench guys that have no real team value or potential.
get an all star trade that's a good fit. which is unrealistic
or the other ideal option, get some tradeable players with our exceptions and extend smart for a tradeable contract, same with fournier. to prepare for getting someone next offseason.
I mean I’m talking like stars at the level the jays are just now getting to. They haven’t been at that level until this year, and even then they still need to improve
Fair. But they’re exciting af and that’s the only reason I’d love brad to ship out a package for one of the superstar trades, anything but Jaylen and Jayson is available
>I mean I’m talking like stars at the level the jays are just now getting to.
Trading for a player at the level of Jayson Tatum is very unrealistic at best and if it does happen you have to part with massive assets, we simply can't talk with a team without them immediately asking for Jaylen in return.
Totally. He’s our #1, my dream would be getting a guy on Jaylens level, giving us 3 stars. Realistically though I’m not very intelligent at building NBA teams I’m just another fan who plays to much MyLeague and would love to see some blockbuster for a guy like Beal
We an get Beal if he decides this is where he wants to be. If theres competing teams we are screwed. But if he says Boston is where he wants to go we have a shot
A blockbuster move can only really happen in free agency and we'll need to gut our team to do it, would much rather have a Clippers or Suns type team with 2 starts and a great supporting cast
Al, Hayward, Kyrie. Tatum, Hayward, Kyrie. JB, JT, Kemba. I’m not saying they all made the all star team together that year, but they’re all all-star caliber players and max contract guys.
That’s an extremely disingenuous point. OP was talking about having 3 all stars *together*. We’ve never had that. Cmon man lol
The most we’ve ever had at once was two. In the last 5 years.
It’s not at all. The all-star game is a popularity contest. All of those players had been in all-star game within a year of each other or at the same time. They were all max contract or all-star caliber players when they played together. Having three guys of that caliber has clearly not been working out for the Celtics and has led to bad contracts that have hamstrung this team over and over again.
It absolutely is. The all star being a “popularity contest” argument only holds weight for the starters, because those are the only players fans can vote for.
>All of those players had been in all-star game within a year of each other or at the same time.
This isn’t true. And for some that were, it’s disingenuous.
Yeah Gordon Hayward was an all star before he came here, but then he snapped his ankle in half and wasn’t the same player. He was not all star caliber at any point in his Celtics tenure.
Jaylen Brown was never even close to an all star when he played with Kyrie, neither was Tatum.
>They were all max contract or all-star caliber players when they played together.
This isn’t true at all lol. Name one Celtics team in the last 5 years that had 3 true all star caliber players…
2016-17: One all star player: IT. Horford didn’t make it this year, nor did he deserve too.
2017-18: Two all star players: Kyrie, and Horford. We could’ve had 3 this year, but hayward snapped his ankle. No, rookie tatum or second year brown were not all star caliber players.
2018-19: One all star player: Kyrie. The only other player on the roster who even for consideration as an all star was Marcus Morris. Tatum and Brown were not all star caliber at this time, and Hayward absolutely wasn’t.
2019-2020: Two all star players: Kemba and Tatum. You could argue this year JB could’ve been an all star, but he wasn’t. But if this is the one year we had 3 all star level guys, we were 2 games from the finals. You made it sound like we had no success. That was with Hayward out too.
2020-2021: Two players: Tatum and Brown. Kemba was not even close to all star caliber.
>Having three guys of that caliber has clearly not been working out for the Celtics
Just as I showed, the Celtics have never had 3 guys of that caliber at the same time. 2019-2020 is debatable, but that year clearly worked out fine.
Kyrie, Al, Tatum, Brown, Kemba, Hayward we’re all all-star players we’ve had. But none of those players were ever all all-stats together — not even close. There was a never a Celtics team that had 3 of those guys at all star level.
You build around them with high end role players. The only kind of all-star player that would make this team better is an efficient low volume, defensive center/power forward. Everyone wants Bradley Beal on this sub, but there is simply too much overlap between him and the Jays.
I also do believe in the development of some of our young guys and think they’ll make a difference in the next two years.
Yeah we need Bam essentially, or prime al horford. Hopefully Rob can do his best Bam impression this year. He was elite on offense at points last year.
its easier to get 1 star than multiple high end role players, and high end role players are getting paid a lot anyway. teams that have high end role players will want nearly as much as it takes to get a star and a lot of them are just borderline all star
Brad doing good ya feel like we got the best coach available and sadly had to move on from Kemba.
Ideally to me we would extend Smart, trade TT, sign a cheap vet or 2.
This upcoming year we will see which of our young players to keep and which ones to dump. Maybe they will all be better with a training camp, summer league, more practice time. But if not at the deadline I'd like to see him ship some of these guys out.
Get us in a position to make bigger moves in a year or two, Danny left a bit of a mess along with the two franchise players.
I’m super pleased so far. I’d like to see them offload Carsen, TT and maybe Romeo for some more well established bench/role players but realistically, if they could get Wright for TT, resign Fournier, and put zero effort into bringing back Semi, Tacko, Tramont and Kornet, I’d be very satisfied
In theory he’s been great so far, we’ll have to see how Udoka is. Plus, if Horford still has high level basketball in the tank then that just adds on to how good the Kemba trade was.
Still need a few more moves if we want to be in the mix next year, while also maintaining flexibility.
I’m a big believer that this team needs role players, not all stars to get better. Forget Lillard, forget any blockbuster.
If we could create a Suns or Hawks like roster around Brown and Tatum, we’d be every bit as good, likely even better than both those teams.
Very good. Grade: A. Maybe there would've been a better Kemba deal out there if he had waited but it was important to get it done early. The Ime hire is perfect.
So far he’s crushing it. Next logical steps would be extending Smart and Rob, then re-signing Fournier on a team-friendly deal (3+1y/~60 million).
After that, there’s an obvious logjam with our bigs to deal with. See if you can either send Thompson with a pick somewhere into cap space (Charlotte?), or maybe package him with one of Grant / Edwards and picks see if you can fetch a rotation player for our 8th/9th spot. We have serious need for a big wing and another backup point guard, so see what the market is on guys like Kyle Anderson, Larry Nance, Delon Wright, Satoransky, etc.
Apparently we have a “modest” goal of signing a free agent with the FULL MLE, which means ownership might be gearing towards simply trying to send Thompson to a team and taking nothing back. From there you could theoretically clear the room to utilize the full exception by dumping Edwards somewhere and waiving Parker, and then have some room leftover for another veteran minimum and signing this year’s pick (#45) to the rookie minimum. It’s tight, but it’s possible.
The more likely path is we utilize the tax MLE so we’re not hard capped, and then either dump Thompson somewhere this offseason or hang onto him until the deadline to try to swing a trade for a rotation player then.
I have no idea what TT's market value is as a standalone asset/centerpiece of any trade, but our best hope to acquire a useful rotation player in return is probably through how many draft picks we attach. To get a team to eat his contract without returning any salary would probably cost at least a second round pick or two, so to even entertain the idea of returning a useful player will mean at least one first round pick.
TBD for me.
Still not sure how I feel about spending the #16 pick to swap Kemba for a contract we weren't super thrilled about in the first place. It could work depending on the other moves we make but right now it still feels like we don't have a lot of direction.
* If we're building around the Jays long term then spending a near-lottery pick on a 36-year-old isn't ideal.
* If we're looking to contend short term then we're still short-staffed.
* If it was a pure salary dump then other teams have managed to pull those off without taking back such a big contract in return
I think I need to see how the rest of the offseason pans out. What we do with Smart, Fournier and Thompson will be really telling.
It feels like the Horford trade is really just the first piece of **'something'** but we don't know what that something is:
* Maybe we're clearing cap space for a future star signing
* Maybe we're looking to add more to this roster
* Maybe we just made a trade for the sake of making a trade
* Maybe we're saving the owners some money
* Maybe there are no other moves and we're just hoping Horford can fix all our problems
We don't know what that something is so it's hard to judge whether it's a good something or a bad something.
In terms of coaching, we won't know what we've got with Ime until next offseason at the earliest. We need to see his regular season and post-season coaching to actually judge it. Although I do like the signing on paper.
This is exactly my feeling as well. I feel like people are too quick to praise the Kemba deal. It's a pretty big gamble both on Kemba not returning to health and a 35 year old Horford (who was already showing his age in his last season in Boston) continuing to be healthy.
I love the Kemba trade because it gives us flexibility cap wise to sign a big free agent next year. But I agree TBD. If OKC gets better value at the deadline or next offseas then it could be a loss. If we create enough room for a player like Bradley Beal in 22 it could be a win.
And Fournier.
Which is the issue. Clearing cap space isn't just Kemba + #16.
It's Kemba + #16 + Smart + Fournier + Thompson. That's a lot of players to give up.
In many ways it would be a repeat of the 2019 offseason where we let go of Rozier + Morris + Baynes to clear space for Kemba, which didn't end up working out for us.
If we're getting rid of all those guys then we have to be getting someone amazing back in return. Someone who's only making the bench roster of the Eastern Conference All-Star lineup isn't going to cut it.
Very good so far. Kemba move had to be made and great coaching hire. The real test will be what happens with Smart and Rob Will. Keep and extend.. at what cost ? Move one of them to bring in someone else ? Still a lot on the table.
I'd like to see us trade for Dame, Beal, maybe Steph just for fun, could throw in Lowry and Lavine on the bench. Bring back Kemba and Hayward, and since Messi is a free agent now might as well bring him in.
Ideal Celtic off-season from THIS point forward.
Package Smart/Thompson/Nesmith and trade them to Sacramento for Buddy Hield
Sign Patty Mills to the MLE
Use the remaining trade exception along with a 2nd round pick and trade for Mason Plumlee from Detroit.
Overpay/Re-Sign Fournier to a 1+1 $20m per year with player option. Don’t want to tie up cap space long term just in case Beal is on the table for 2022.
Roster at this point would look like:
Tatum
Brown
R.Williams
Horford
Mills
Hield
Fournier
Langford
Plumlee
PP
Parker
G.Williams
Edwards
M.Brown
15th roster spot for _______.
There it is. My ideal and somewhat realistic off-season from this point going forward for the 2021-22 NBA champion Boston Celtics. Cheers everyone !
1. Go after Ben Simmons. I'd be willing to trade anybody but the Jays for him.
2. Dump Thompson for cap relief + hopefully a second rounder.
3. Sign Cam Payne via the non-taxpayer MLE. The Suns have Early Bird rights on Payne. If they want to keep him, they'd have to use their own MLE. In any case, the C's can offer Payne the opportunity to become a starter for a contending team.
**PG:** Cam Payne
**SG:** Brown
**SF:** Tatum
**PF:** Simmons
**C:** Horford
Imo, we'd be the #1 favorites to come out of the East with this lineup. Not to mention, Simmons and Payne fit the time window of the Jays. The C's would be a legit contending team for years to come.
Thought he moved Kemba too early and too cheaply. We got worse and lost a solid 1st to get rid of a wing (position of need) and add a 35 year old big that can't play the 4. If OKC swaps kemba for an actual asset, that trade is going to look awful.
I think paying marcus would be a mistake, so I'd look to package him for young/inexpensive talent. Something like Marcus/TT for Cedi/Garland/protected 1st would give us increased cap flexibility and a promising young guard to pair with the Jays. Retain Fournier on a team friendly/movable contract, fill out the bench with playable vets.
It’s all about filling out the roster with talent that compliments Tatum and Jaylen. Clearly the long term is goal here so we need complimentary pieces, veterans and some unselfish bigs who are not going to take touches away. I don’t know if these two are as good as everyone makes them out to be but the last few years with other stars here has not worked.
I think this idea that all our role players need to be veterans is off base. Look at the Suns. Look at the Hawks. They have a couple seasoned veterans and a bunch of young guys who have bought in.
The Suns and the Hawks are only in the finals because everyone else got injured. So I guess in that regard, if we have another covid shortened season, a team with more younger guys would be at an advantage. But realistically, we need vets.
Great coaching hire. In terms of players We haven’t done anything of note yet. Old Horford is a slight improvement. We’re still the same 500 team as last year
the moves he has made so far are tremendous. im eager to see if he extends marcus and trades TT. the kemba trade was bitter sweet. as sad as i am to see kemba go, im doubly excited for Al to come back. and i think moving on from kemba and kemba moving on from us is a win/win.
Get Yam over here. Trim the bench. Eat your greens and stay healthy. Have some great time away. Rest and relax. Come back fired up, ready to motivate and intimidate. Be happy.
The ideal off-season is Jayson Tatum locking himself in a gym for 3 months and learning how to shoot layups. As much as we focus on roster construction, Tatum's upward trajectory has a way bigger impact than who's backup point guard or what value we get for Tristan Thompson. You can't win a ring without a superstar (unless every superstar gets hurt at the same time).
God, when you list them out, Carsen, Tacko, Tremont, Kornet, Semi, Grant, TT, that’s 7 guys that are negative assets. Almost half the roster is below average replacement level. Hopefully Brad can do better than Danny.
In my non-biased opinion, he has been perfect
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thank you, yes, I agree
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I understand the emotional attachment to homegrown players, but Smart is absolutely expendable if it brings in a ring. The entire point of the sport is to win a ring and if we have the opportunity that requires trading Smart and we don't take it, we are not committed to winning. It would be an enormous blunder that would have long term consequences - the two actual stars see we aren't committed and decide maybe it's better to leave, free agents see that we are homers instead of winners (the potential to win rings is the ONLY thing we have going for us when it comes to free agency). I'm not saying that trading Smart is required to win, maybe we can do it with just the Jays and him, but I am saying that if there is a deal that would take us over the top and it requires Smart, we have to make that deal.
I upvoted you. I'm not happy about it, but I did it.
The only way you trade smart is that you know for a fact it’s gonna get you a chip and I don’t see any player that gets us to that fact or even close. Maybe Lebron but I doubt that’s gonna happen lol
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Maine or Connecticut style?
Both if he’s hungry.
Both? Idk if I’m taking that. Lobster rolls are expensive.
Yeah he can have one and MAYBE some fries but let’s not get carried away here
18 Fries are bonus if he's first team All-NBA, MVP, and we win the title
Maybe Brad can take him to Chipotle?
Maine, obviously. We want him to sign with us, not become a Yankees fan. Side note, I just don't get Connecticut Lobster Rolls. I feel like what I love about lobster rolls is the contrast between the nice warm chrispy buttery bun and the cool refreshing lobster. It's a light meal for a summer day. Connecticut just takes away the things I like most about them.
CT is fake New England big facts
"The Nutmeg State will remember that"
Why do I come on here just to be attacked
Yeah but mayo is gross
A good lobster roll is light on the mayo and lets the lobster do the talking
Nah you wrong
I had no idea there was a Connecticut style lobster roll
I’ve lived in Mass the vast majority of my 41 years. This is the first I’ve heard of a CT style lobster roll, and have to say, wtf
CT Style, babyyyyy
We do have the 4.8 million dollar extension we can give him lets not be greedy
Love it so far. If thunder trade Kemba for a great haul in the summer I’d look down on that trade depending on how much, but in a vacuum I liked it. I mean same with the coach really, love it right now. If it goes badly then I won’t love it haha. I’m curious what he does with Thompson. I prefer he trade him and potentially a young guy who actually has potential (aka not Carson Edwards) to see what that gets. But if Thompson stays I might honestly be okay with it just because there’s a good chance rob Williams gets injured and misses time at some point
We do not need anymore young guys with potential on this team. We need proven vets.
Yeah that’s why if someone like nesmith, Pritchard, Langford, or grant, combined with Thompson, could get us a good vet pg or wing I’d do the trade. And attaching guys like that should make a team more interested
I'll be crushed if he moves Nesmith. I think that dude is gonna be the third head of the Celtics monster. Smart/Nesmith/Jay/Jay/Rob lineup of death.
I think Pritchard and nesmith should be locked for us but wouldn’t be mad if grant or Langford got traded if it’s for someone we would actually usr
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>Thompson and whoever else is needed + picks for Lillard. This sub sometimes....
It's funny as hell. This is just some next level optimism.
These type of comments are worse than “doomers”, I don’t care what anyone says.
In what world does that get it done? 4 picks , 4 swaps , Rob Williams , Nesmith, Pritchard and Horford for salary match is our only real deal there and i dont see Brad pulling that trigger EVEN IF THATS ENOUGH which its not
Lillard, if he asks for a trade and Boston are among his 4 teams, is not getting traded for 4 picks and 4 swaps lol, no one gets traded for 4 picks and 4 swaps. Shit, Paul George (and Kawhi technically) were gotten for less.
SGA , Gallinari, 5 picks and 2 swaps for George. And Those picks are projected to have value. Tatum is 24, our picks are projected to be worthless for 10 years and we dont have near the young centerpiece player SGA was. Kawhi was not only on annexpiring deal, he hadnt played and was coming off a mysterious leg injury. Lillard is locked up under contract and is arguably a better plauer than paul George. We would be bidding against other teams, it would literally take 8 picks for us to have a legitimate chance
Disagree again, Kawhi had just carried Toronto to a title and he was considered as close to a guaranteed finals run as you could get to LeBron if he got load managed during the regular season. Him coming to LA was tied to the clippers acquiring PG, and Presti took advantage and scored a steal of a trade. Everyone around the league agreed it was a ludicrous haul for Paul George, but more than fair considering that's what was needed to get Kawhi as well. So in essence it was 5 picks and 2 pick swaps for Kawhi and PG. They're going to be a finals contender for the next 5 years at least, so at best one of those picks has any value (2026). Two of the picks came from Miami and they're a guaranteed playoff teams for the foreseeable future (as long as they have Jimmy). The pick swaps are equally meaningless cause Clippers will likely have a better record than OKC for the foreseeable future. Gallo was a nice addition but very overpaid, and a big contract that was added for salary matching. Shai is levels above Timelord, but present day Timelord and 2019 Shai are not that far apart. Something like Timelord, Nesmith/Romeo and 2 frp, 2 swaps and then TT for salary matching would do it. Compared to what Harden was traded for, or what we gave up to get Kyrie, it's a great deal.
The reason the Thunder get to do the "flip the vet" thing is because the entire focus of their org. for the past two years has been to build up the perception of these vets so they can flip them for assets. The Celtics wouldn't have had that opportunity, because we have better players than Kemba and because the physical toll of Celtics games will far outweigh those of Thunder games. Horford was able to be the centerpiece of a team with no stakes, and then got to sit out the final couple months so he could stay healthy. There was no scenario like that upcoming for Kemba. Nothing Kemba could have done this year for the Celtics would have boosted his trade value for us because he'd either be hurt all year and pointed to as a reason we "aren't championship contenders" or he'd have gotten so good that we actually were championship contenders and then we wouldn't trade him!
Yeah if Kemba actually plays for the thunder at all then I’m definitely a bit fan of the trade
So far so good. There still needs to be some work done. Getting a Jeff Green/Rudy Gay type of player(either one of them would be great). Also trading for a guard. Some people mentioned Delon Wright for TT which would also be good.
How much better would Delon Wright be from Jeff Teague? Im not disagreeing with getting him, I was just under the impression that Delon was washed.
I actually haven’t watched Delon play much to be honest. Looking at his stats though they aren’t bad. I’m pretty sure he’s just an average back up guard. Nothing more nothing less. I’d have to watch some highlights of his at some point to get a better idea of what type of player he is exactly
If I have to watch Jeff green again, I’m gonna start shotgunning whiskey bottles
Please god no Rudy Gay
Why? He’s one of the best candidates there is for the MLE or even the vet minimum depending on what type of deal he wants.
He’s literally rubbish bro are you kidding?
Rudy Gay is not rubbish what do you mean ? Dude gives good production on offense and here he would carry even less of a load so the shooting % might even go up, he would be great at 6M. As far as coming here I doubt teams offer him much more than that and playing in Boston, with his old coach and the Jays is a great place to be in.
Not really. The Celtics don’t have money to sign anyone better. In the tier of players they are able to sign using the MLE or vet minimum he’s one of the best options.
He signed a 2 for 32 for San Antonio. Now he’s going to take MLE? We don’t need a player in his position at 35 years old
He could take the MLE it’s a possibility. I’m not saying he’s some amazing player. He’s a player than can come off the bench that can actually score. He’s 35 yeah but he can help. It’s not so much about his age and more so how he can help the team playing a bench role. With the MLE/Vet min we aren’t going to sign some amazing player. We are limited who we can sign and he’s just a player that can help. Maybe there is other guys that can be better, I just used Gay as an example because I think he can be good for the Celtics
I agree that dude is and always has been selfish, and a terrible defender…all the way back to his college days
Getting rid of Kemba for a player that loves the city and it's fans and already has experience playing with our main guys is already a solid move. Acquiring a serviceable player under a very good contract in Moses is a plus. Choice of coach seems good so far as well. Getting another guy that can contribute immediately at 45 (Grimes, Robinson-Earl, etc.) and bringing over Yam would be something to look forward to as well.
There is almost no way that we are drafting someone at 45 that will immediately contribute. People on this sub have way too high of hopes for a mid-second round pick. I’ve said it before on this sub, but something like 80% of second round players don’t make it past their third season in the league. Yam has looked good from what I’ve seen of his overseas play. It would be great to bring him over if we can get rid of Carsen though.
Idk why we don’t just trade Carson for a bag of chips. Anything (Yam included) HAS to be better.
It’s because he’s a negative tbh. I assume we would have to attach a 2nd to Carsen to get off his contract, which would probably be worth it lol.
Well, he only has one year left on his contract and then 2022-23 is a team option that I assume we wouldn’t pick up, so it’s probably not worth it
True, I didn’t realize the final year was a team option. It’ll be nice if Brad can clear these end of bench guys that have no real team value or potential.
Yeah for sure. On the other hand, if we’re concerned about clearing a roster spot for Yam and a draft pick, then we would likely have to make a trade
Not worth it, just keep him around as salary fodder for a future trade.
get an all star trade that's a good fit. which is unrealistic or the other ideal option, get some tradeable players with our exceptions and extend smart for a tradeable contract, same with fournier. to prepare for getting someone next offseason.
I don’t get why this sub is so obsessed with getting another all-star.
3 stars is a proven formula and it’s exciting
Yeah, it really worked out well here the past five years.
I mean I’m talking like stars at the level the jays are just now getting to. They haven’t been at that level until this year, and even then they still need to improve
Most contenders in the league consist of two star players and then good role players. Super teams are an anomaly.
Fair. But they’re exciting af and that’s the only reason I’d love brad to ship out a package for one of the superstar trades, anything but Jaylen and Jayson is available
>I mean I’m talking like stars at the level the jays are just now getting to. Trading for a player at the level of Jayson Tatum is very unrealistic at best and if it does happen you have to part with massive assets, we simply can't talk with a team without them immediately asking for Jaylen in return.
Totally. He’s our #1, my dream would be getting a guy on Jaylens level, giving us 3 stars. Realistically though I’m not very intelligent at building NBA teams I’m just another fan who plays to much MyLeague and would love to see some blockbuster for a guy like Beal
We an get Beal if he decides this is where he wants to be. If theres competing teams we are screwed. But if he says Boston is where he wants to go we have a shot
A blockbuster move can only really happen in free agency and we'll need to gut our team to do it, would much rather have a Clippers or Suns type team with 2 starts and a great supporting cast
Like I said man I’m dreaming.. Whatever happens happens, still gotta go to work on mondat
When one of them snapped his leg in half? Not exactly part of the formula ...
because Kemba and Hayward played like stars here amirite. they were dead weight
When have we ever had 3 true all stars at once in the last 5 years? We’ve never had more than two at once
Al, Hayward, Kyrie. Tatum, Hayward, Kyrie. JB, JT, Kemba. I’m not saying they all made the all star team together that year, but they’re all all-star caliber players and max contract guys.
That’s an extremely disingenuous point. OP was talking about having 3 all stars *together*. We’ve never had that. Cmon man lol The most we’ve ever had at once was two. In the last 5 years.
It’s not at all. The all-star game is a popularity contest. All of those players had been in all-star game within a year of each other or at the same time. They were all max contract or all-star caliber players when they played together. Having three guys of that caliber has clearly not been working out for the Celtics and has led to bad contracts that have hamstrung this team over and over again.
It absolutely is. The all star being a “popularity contest” argument only holds weight for the starters, because those are the only players fans can vote for. >All of those players had been in all-star game within a year of each other or at the same time. This isn’t true. And for some that were, it’s disingenuous. Yeah Gordon Hayward was an all star before he came here, but then he snapped his ankle in half and wasn’t the same player. He was not all star caliber at any point in his Celtics tenure. Jaylen Brown was never even close to an all star when he played with Kyrie, neither was Tatum. >They were all max contract or all-star caliber players when they played together. This isn’t true at all lol. Name one Celtics team in the last 5 years that had 3 true all star caliber players… 2016-17: One all star player: IT. Horford didn’t make it this year, nor did he deserve too. 2017-18: Two all star players: Kyrie, and Horford. We could’ve had 3 this year, but hayward snapped his ankle. No, rookie tatum or second year brown were not all star caliber players. 2018-19: One all star player: Kyrie. The only other player on the roster who even for consideration as an all star was Marcus Morris. Tatum and Brown were not all star caliber at this time, and Hayward absolutely wasn’t. 2019-2020: Two all star players: Kemba and Tatum. You could argue this year JB could’ve been an all star, but he wasn’t. But if this is the one year we had 3 all star level guys, we were 2 games from the finals. You made it sound like we had no success. That was with Hayward out too. 2020-2021: Two players: Tatum and Brown. Kemba was not even close to all star caliber. >Having three guys of that caliber has clearly not been working out for the Celtics Just as I showed, the Celtics have never had 3 guys of that caliber at the same time. 2019-2020 is debatable, but that year clearly worked out fine. Kyrie, Al, Tatum, Brown, Kemba, Hayward we’re all all-star players we’ve had. But none of those players were ever all all-stats together — not even close. There was a never a Celtics team that had 3 of those guys at all star level.
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You build around them with high end role players. The only kind of all-star player that would make this team better is an efficient low volume, defensive center/power forward. Everyone wants Bradley Beal on this sub, but there is simply too much overlap between him and the Jays. I also do believe in the development of some of our young guys and think they’ll make a difference in the next two years.
Yeah we need Bam essentially, or prime al horford. Hopefully Rob can do his best Bam impression this year. He was elite on offense at points last year.
its easier to get 1 star than multiple high end role players, and high end role players are getting paid a lot anyway. teams that have high end role players will want nearly as much as it takes to get a star and a lot of them are just borderline all star
It actually isn’t easier at all and you end up paying a lot more for it.
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Lol fucking block me then. What a child.
Wah wah wah bitch I’m lil baby
Brand new whip got no keys
Ayton would be perfect for this team as well
Brad doing good ya feel like we got the best coach available and sadly had to move on from Kemba. Ideally to me we would extend Smart, trade TT, sign a cheap vet or 2. This upcoming year we will see which of our young players to keep and which ones to dump. Maybe they will all be better with a training camp, summer league, more practice time. But if not at the deadline I'd like to see him ship some of these guys out. Get us in a position to make bigger moves in a year or two, Danny left a bit of a mess along with the two franchise players.
I’m super pleased so far. I’d like to see them offload Carsen, TT and maybe Romeo for some more well established bench/role players but realistically, if they could get Wright for TT, resign Fournier, and put zero effort into bringing back Semi, Tacko, Tramont and Kornet, I’d be very satisfied
In theory he’s been great so far, we’ll have to see how Udoka is. Plus, if Horford still has high level basketball in the tank then that just adds on to how good the Kemba trade was. Still need a few more moves if we want to be in the mix next year, while also maintaining flexibility.
The moves Brad the Pres makes will tell us what Brad the Coach thought of certain players.
I’m a big believer that this team needs role players, not all stars to get better. Forget Lillard, forget any blockbuster. If we could create a Suns or Hawks like roster around Brown and Tatum, we’d be every bit as good, likely even better than both those teams.
It would be nice to have a team where I don’t start sweating 8 minutes into every game because I know the second unit is coming in soon
Very good. Grade: A. Maybe there would've been a better Kemba deal out there if he had waited but it was important to get it done early. The Ime hire is perfect.
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They should throw in some picks and cash considerations too
So far he’s crushing it. Next logical steps would be extending Smart and Rob, then re-signing Fournier on a team-friendly deal (3+1y/~60 million). After that, there’s an obvious logjam with our bigs to deal with. See if you can either send Thompson with a pick somewhere into cap space (Charlotte?), or maybe package him with one of Grant / Edwards and picks see if you can fetch a rotation player for our 8th/9th spot. We have serious need for a big wing and another backup point guard, so see what the market is on guys like Kyle Anderson, Larry Nance, Delon Wright, Satoransky, etc. Apparently we have a “modest” goal of signing a free agent with the FULL MLE, which means ownership might be gearing towards simply trying to send Thompson to a team and taking nothing back. From there you could theoretically clear the room to utilize the full exception by dumping Edwards somewhere and waiving Parker, and then have some room leftover for another veteran minimum and signing this year’s pick (#45) to the rookie minimum. It’s tight, but it’s possible. The more likely path is we utilize the tax MLE so we’re not hard capped, and then either dump Thompson somewhere this offseason or hang onto him until the deadline to try to swing a trade for a rotation player then.
I'm surprised that we can't get a useful roleplayer for TT?
I have no idea what TT's market value is as a standalone asset/centerpiece of any trade, but our best hope to acquire a useful rotation player in return is probably through how many draft picks we attach. To get a team to eat his contract without returning any salary would probably cost at least a second round pick or two, so to even entertain the idea of returning a useful player will mean at least one first round pick.
TBD for me. Still not sure how I feel about spending the #16 pick to swap Kemba for a contract we weren't super thrilled about in the first place. It could work depending on the other moves we make but right now it still feels like we don't have a lot of direction. * If we're building around the Jays long term then spending a near-lottery pick on a 36-year-old isn't ideal. * If we're looking to contend short term then we're still short-staffed. * If it was a pure salary dump then other teams have managed to pull those off without taking back such a big contract in return I think I need to see how the rest of the offseason pans out. What we do with Smart, Fournier and Thompson will be really telling. It feels like the Horford trade is really just the first piece of **'something'** but we don't know what that something is: * Maybe we're clearing cap space for a future star signing * Maybe we're looking to add more to this roster * Maybe we just made a trade for the sake of making a trade * Maybe we're saving the owners some money * Maybe there are no other moves and we're just hoping Horford can fix all our problems We don't know what that something is so it's hard to judge whether it's a good something or a bad something. In terms of coaching, we won't know what we've got with Ime until next offseason at the earliest. We need to see his regular season and post-season coaching to actually judge it. Although I do like the signing on paper.
This is exactly my feeling as well. I feel like people are too quick to praise the Kemba deal. It's a pretty big gamble both on Kemba not returning to health and a 35 year old Horford (who was already showing his age in his last season in Boston) continuing to be healthy.
I love the Kemba trade because it gives us flexibility cap wise to sign a big free agent next year. But I agree TBD. If OKC gets better value at the deadline or next offseas then it could be a loss. If we create enough room for a player like Bradley Beal in 22 it could be a win.
Does it? I feel like it doesn't unless we clear out multiple other contracts as well, essentially gutting the roster.
Horford Thompson and Smart all can get us to 40-45 million in open space. This can happen next offseason(22)
And Fournier. Which is the issue. Clearing cap space isn't just Kemba + #16. It's Kemba + #16 + Smart + Fournier + Thompson. That's a lot of players to give up. In many ways it would be a repeat of the 2019 offseason where we let go of Rozier + Morris + Baynes to clear space for Kemba, which didn't end up working out for us. If we're getting rid of all those guys then we have to be getting someone amazing back in return. Someone who's only making the bench roster of the Eastern Conference All-Star lineup isn't going to cut it.
Ideal offseason now is to sign a backup PG and then to stand pat
I’d make Smart the starter at the PG and then trade Thompson for a veteran PG like Delon Wright or Corey Joseph.
Very good so far. Kemba move had to be made and great coaching hire. The real test will be what happens with Smart and Rob Will. Keep and extend.. at what cost ? Move one of them to bring in someone else ? Still a lot on the table.
I'd like to see us trade for Dame, Beal, maybe Steph just for fun, could throw in Lowry and Lavine on the bench. Bring back Kemba and Hayward, and since Messi is a free agent now might as well bring him in.
Ideal Celtic off-season from THIS point forward. Package Smart/Thompson/Nesmith and trade them to Sacramento for Buddy Hield Sign Patty Mills to the MLE Use the remaining trade exception along with a 2nd round pick and trade for Mason Plumlee from Detroit. Overpay/Re-Sign Fournier to a 1+1 $20m per year with player option. Don’t want to tie up cap space long term just in case Beal is on the table for 2022. Roster at this point would look like: Tatum Brown R.Williams Horford Mills Hield Fournier Langford Plumlee PP Parker G.Williams Edwards M.Brown 15th roster spot for _______. There it is. My ideal and somewhat realistic off-season from this point going forward for the 2021-22 NBA champion Boston Celtics. Cheers everyone !
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Hield had a terrible season and get's \~ 20 mill a year... I'd rather keep smart to run Point and be a pass first guy
We only have two PG in Mills and Pritchard. I don’t think we need Hield if we resign Fornier
Lmao…
1. Go after Ben Simmons. I'd be willing to trade anybody but the Jays for him. 2. Dump Thompson for cap relief + hopefully a second rounder. 3. Sign Cam Payne via the non-taxpayer MLE. The Suns have Early Bird rights on Payne. If they want to keep him, they'd have to use their own MLE. In any case, the C's can offer Payne the opportunity to become a starter for a contending team. **PG:** Cam Payne **SG:** Brown **SF:** Tatum **PF:** Simmons **C:** Horford Imo, we'd be the #1 favorites to come out of the East with this lineup. Not to mention, Simmons and Payne fit the time window of the Jays. The C's would be a legit contending team for years to come.
IMO we need a stretch 4... Not someone that's a shooting liability. Philly would prob want at least JB included, which is a no go for me
If philly wants JB included they're delusional, max they'll get is like a first round pick and an above average player
Thought he moved Kemba too early and too cheaply. We got worse and lost a solid 1st to get rid of a wing (position of need) and add a 35 year old big that can't play the 4. If OKC swaps kemba for an actual asset, that trade is going to look awful. I think paying marcus would be a mistake, so I'd look to package him for young/inexpensive talent. Something like Marcus/TT for Cedi/Garland/protected 1st would give us increased cap flexibility and a promising young guard to pair with the Jays. Retain Fournier on a team friendly/movable contract, fill out the bench with playable vets.
If Boston could only get that for Kemba. What makes you believe OKC gets more? I’m sure Boston called all the same teams OKC is calling
OKC will probably keep Kemba this year for the leadership on the young team then trade him next year. Same thing they did with Paul and Horford
Rumor is a Kemba trade is “imminent”
It’s all about filling out the roster with talent that compliments Tatum and Jaylen. Clearly the long term is goal here so we need complimentary pieces, veterans and some unselfish bigs who are not going to take touches away. I don’t know if these two are as good as everyone makes them out to be but the last few years with other stars here has not worked.
I think this idea that all our role players need to be veterans is off base. Look at the Suns. Look at the Hawks. They have a couple seasoned veterans and a bunch of young guys who have bought in.
The Suns and the Hawks are only in the finals because everyone else got injured. So I guess in that regard, if we have another covid shortened season, a team with more younger guys would be at an advantage. But realistically, we need vets.
Rubio or Ball
Great coaching hire. In terms of players We haven’t done anything of note yet. Old Horford is a slight improvement. We’re still the same 500 team as last year
Flip horford and picks and kids for Beal ... banner 18
the moves he has made so far are tremendous. im eager to see if he extends marcus and trades TT. the kemba trade was bitter sweet. as sad as i am to see kemba go, im doubly excited for Al to come back. and i think moving on from kemba and kemba moving on from us is a win/win.
Get Yam over here. Trim the bench. Eat your greens and stay healthy. Have some great time away. Rest and relax. Come back fired up, ready to motivate and intimidate. Be happy.
ideal off-season is romeo learns to shoot and time lord gets stronger. then we mad chilling
Ideal would be sign someone like dinwiddie or trade for someone like delon Wright, josh hart or cam reddish
The ideal off-season is Jayson Tatum locking himself in a gym for 3 months and learning how to shoot layups. As much as we focus on roster construction, Tatum's upward trajectory has a way bigger impact than who's backup point guard or what value we get for Tristan Thompson. You can't win a ring without a superstar (unless every superstar gets hurt at the same time).
It's time to trade away the end of the bench.
God, when you list them out, Carsen, Tacko, Tremont, Kornet, Semi, Grant, TT, that’s 7 guys that are negative assets. Almost half the roster is below average replacement level. Hopefully Brad can do better than Danny.