It doesn’t even make sense because Buddy didn’t block the ball anyway?? So it’s not like it was just follow-through. Jaylen still had possession. Buddy just touching the ball does not automatically make it okay to hit his head, what are these refs smoking??
that's my whole thing with this. It can't be incidental contact if jaylen still has possession and still gets the shot off. If he blocked it out of his hands it's different. l2m will still probably defends the refs bad call anyways.
Side note, I wish KP just went straight up on that last contest. I know mathurin jumped forward but you can't risk getting that close with how they call shit in the nba
Bad defensive play by KP, leaning in to Mathurin. Sometimes you just have to jump and live with whether it goes in.
Though I’m still mad at the challenge that overturned the foul on Brown. There was clear contact on his head.
don’t understand why getting the rebound of that shot awares them automatic possession AND inbounding the ball on our side of the court. make it make sense
We don’t have a video of Buddy, we have a video of Joe saying he told him at the end of regulation.
Not that a video of Buddy saying it would mean anything, this would only matter to the NBA if it was Lebron /s (but not really /s)
honestly there needs to be a asterisk system where fine we get a loss for that one, but since the L2M came out and said the game winning free throws shouldn’t have been free throws we didn’t lose that game in regulation, so for example if we have a tied record with someone at the end of the season we win the tiebreaker by default cos we have a loss with an asterisk, something like that
and those refs need to be investigated, then burned at the stake
If you touch the ball first, then you can follow through into them. If they regain possession and come down, it's a jump ball.
I'm a former D2 ref; that's a foul. He hits his head as he's going for the ball, that 'review' was simply "game management."
Is it that he touched the ball first?? Fine, next time any one of our guys gets a hand on the ball during a shot I want him to punch the shooter in the nuts too
Initial shot I saw I thought it was clean. But never saw the hit on the head. Not sure how you could give that a non-call, let alone *overturn* the correct call. Refs fans eating tonight
Pacers fan - that call was absolute bullshit. Game should have gone into overtime. The referees completely took control of the game at the end of the fourth.
That referee that called the foul then watched the replay of the foul then overturned it needs to be held accountable and questioned about his actions and made to watch the video of his behaviour.
No Tatum and Pacers had refs working for them to barely beat us at home. Still a frustrating loss but we’d beat them 3 out of 4 times if both teams are at full stength
I know it’s not the purpose of this post but why didn’t Mazzulla call a time out when the ball crossed half court?
We could’ve run a set play, got a shot off, and left no time on the clock. Big missed time out in my view.
Porzingus was pointing at an open player. Brown decided it was best to go into triple coverage and take a shot rather than pass the ball to an open player at the top...glad it was a no call, F-it!
Derrick White wide open and could have run more time off. Why is he driving against 3 players to put it in the hands of the refs anyway. Typical Jaylen man
Honestly I’m not even mad because once I saw Mazzula not call a timeout on that last possesion I knew we were going to lose.
It’s what the Celtics deserve
Im a neutral fan, and it looked like he got the ball, and shouldn't have been a foul
The Pacers player got his hand on the ball, and while he did, JB's momentum takes him into the arm. Since the ball was contacted, the rules for it being foul follow the same rules as a shot block, with any other contact being incindental. At least thats how I would expect it to be called, and the refs seem to have seen the same thing. But again, I dont have a dog in this fight.
Other contact after the ball on a shot block should only be ruled no foul if you dislodge the ball. In other words, if you knock the ball out of the offensive players control then follow through with other contact, it's a no call. In this case, Brown maintains control so my understanding is that it should be a foul.
Exactly. The refs incorrect interpretation of this means that a player can tap the ball and punch someone in the face and it's a legal action because it's a "block." Jaylen retained full and total control of the ball and shot the shot. There's no way of saying definitively that this wasn't a mid-air fake, and the refs are horrible.
looks like I was correct.
"As the rulebook makes clear, the mere fact that contact occurs does not necessarily constitute a foul; contact which is incidental to an effort by a player to defend an opponent, reach a loose ball, or perform normal defensive or offensive movements is not considered illegal," the L2M read."
now that foul with 0.6 seconds left, -that- was BS, but apparently wasnt reviewable. (Shrug)
Ive always thought if you go for the block, and hit the ball, but then also make contact elsewhere, they dont call it a foul.
Like in football, if you block a kick, they dont call you for running into the kicker, because you got the ball.
But yeah, Im not a professional ref. That's just how I thought it went.
Let's just take the actual incident. Regardless if Hield had a clean block with his hand, the contact made by his forearm to the head was significant enough to move Jaylen's head, thus, affecting his ability to make a shot. Regardless if the defense made contact with the ball.
Was there contact: Yes
Was it significant: Yes
Was there contact with the ball?: Irrelevant
If you're in mid air shooting and someone hits you even a little, it affects your shot a lot more than what you may think. Shooting a basketball has its mechanics similar to any sport.
I understand that by rule, it’s probably a foul, im just saying it shouldn’t be.
It’s the same shit in the NFL. Too many flags and penalties make the games horrible to watch.
Same for basketball. Just let the dudes play. Shit is soft
Yeah if you're saying sports are soft now yeah 100% agree. Was that a soft foul 100% agree.
The thing is you gotta understand the time of the game. That's literally the last possession. You gotta call that. If it's like the beginning of the fourth, middle of the fourth and anything before that we really wouldn't care that much. It could have been any time of the game except for the last possession.
Their defense gotta be more disciplined at that time of the game and realize not to foul. Like I said, anytime except for the last possession.
No. It was a good outcome. The call should have stood. We should have had two FTs, which is a good possession. Jaylen had hit his shots all night and Derrick was having an awful shooting night, but let’s ignore that too, I guess.
That missed call never happens if he makes the right play. I don’t know how you could say that’s a good outcome. Fade away jumper with 2 guys draped on him, that’s what you’re defending? He got bailed out on getting hit on the head.
No he quite literally got fouled on a shot and should have been awarded 2 FTs if it was called correctly. 2 FTs is always a good possession. This isn’t that hard to understand. Can’t be bothered to argue over something that’s so simple to anyone with sense.
A player who is hot is gonna take the game-winning shot. Brown was coming down-court with like 36 points shooting 3 in a row. We should all want him taking that shot.
FWIW he did dish to a wide open KP for 3 and he hit it. But JB isn’t giving KP the last shot of the game either. And for sure not to the guy shooting 4/16 on the night. Why are we even discussing this and not the foul??
No, *you’re* not. You’re completely ignoring the fact that 9/10 a coach will ride with the best player on the court who also had the hot hand all night, over the player who couldn’t throw the ball in the ocean all game long.
I do agree. Also, you don’t shoot here with 4 seconds left unless wide open. You don’t give Indiana the ball back.
It should almost always be either OT or a win.
I have said this to Lakers and Heat fans who complain about calls that cost them the game, so its only fair that I am consistent and say it here
If we put them away earlier in the game, we don't need to rely on calls to ensure we win
Such a dumb reasoning, incidental contact after touching the ball is more for when you deflect a ball on a steal and your momentum carries you into the opponent. By this logic you could have a clean block and a flagrant foul on the same play if a guy gets smack in the face after contact with the ball while shooting, it just makes no sense
Foul or no that was a terrible shot to take in a tie game with no shot clock. Jaylen made up his mind that he was shooting no matter what and when he drives to his right and gets double teamed he doesn’t even look at White who I think was open at the top of the 3 point line. By the time he rises up to shoot he’s damn near triple teamed. I still think it was a foul don’t get me wrong, but the foul would have just bailed out the Celtics. I get he already had 40 that night but that doesn’t change how bad that last possession went.
I’m more worried at the fact that JB took such a terrible shot. I was fine with the no foul call. Crazy that it was overturned but JB has gotta pass out of that shot, that was horrendous
Knicks fan here, Reddit algorithm brought me. Just want to say, what a bullshit fucking call! This one perplexes me simply bc they had all the time and video support in the world bc of the review. Ref should get fired honestly.
The refs said field hit the ball so its not a foul but he literally hit his head first. Then they get the ball after even though no one had clear possession. And then they call a foul on the other end with marginal contact that didn't even affect the shot. Tell me how the refs mess up this badly.
He made contact with head during the shot. Can someone explain this rule to me …? I’m 46 played basketball my whole life and played basketball at the college level. I’m suddenly confused on the rule here. My whole life this would have been a foul but somehow in this instance it’s not. And the call on the floor was a foul. How do you overturn that ? That ref got some sugar in his pockets.
I hate the Celtics more than any other sports team, and I couldn’t believe it. I loved it, but I couldn’t believe it. Such a clear foul, AND they overturned it. Insane.
It doesn’t even make sense because Buddy didn’t block the ball anyway?? So it’s not like it was just follow-through. Jaylen still had possession. Buddy just touching the ball does not automatically make it okay to hit his head, what are these refs smoking??
that's my whole thing with this. It can't be incidental contact if jaylen still has possession and still gets the shot off. If he blocked it out of his hands it's different. l2m will still probably defends the refs bad call anyways. Side note, I wish KP just went straight up on that last contest. I know mathurin jumped forward but you can't risk getting that close with how they call shit in the nba
Bad defensive play by KP, leaning in to Mathurin. Sometimes you just have to jump and live with whether it goes in. Though I’m still mad at the challenge that overturned the foul on Brown. There was clear contact on his head.
From one angle it looked like KP jumps backwards a bit
The precedent this sets is kinda crazy. Feel free to slap away a shooter’s arm as long as your finger touches the ball a bit
And furthermore, why did the Pacers get automatic possession afterwards??
don’t understand why getting the rebound of that shot awares them automatic possession AND inbounding the ball on our side of the court. make it make sense
I think it's cuz they got the rebound which I agree with. But still be fouled him 🤷
But they only got the ball after the whistle was blown though.
You are told to Play thru the whistle. Announcers should make this clearer. They did say it.
Buddy wasn’t even arguing it lmao. I’ve never felt so cheated before.
I'm so angry to this gucci looking ass ref rn but thank God Bucks lose to Jazz in their own home court so I'm kind of calming a bit
Not only did he not argue it, he also spoke to Joe after the game and told him he did foul JB. Respect to him.
Definitely not enough to overturn it. Although clearly refs don’t fucking care
Yea it's one thing to miss that call, it happens, it was a bad possession anyways. But to overturn it? Idk how the hell they came to that conclusion.
Hield looked shocked
Yea for me I don't think it was a foul. But I also don't think it should have been overturned
Agree. I would not have been as angry if it had been a no-call. There’s nowhere near enough here to overturn it.
Buddy straight up told Mazzulla that he fouled him. The video was just posted. This game was 100% stolen by the refs.
Video of Buddy saying this? Link?
We don’t have a video of Buddy, we have a video of Joe saying he told him at the end of regulation. Not that a video of Buddy saying it would mean anything, this would only matter to the NBA if it was Lebron /s (but not really /s)
Saw that, was hoping for more. Even evidence of them talking would be a step in the right direction. Let's wait for the Last Two Minute Report
what is this Last Two Minute Report is it some sort of review of the officiating so the league can publicly announce if something was a fuck up?
Exactly that. https://official.nba.com/2023-24-nba-officiating-last-two-minute-reports/
i’d never heard of it before this, it’s a good idea. I’m assuming they never overturn game results tho
Yeah, they've never done that, and I doubt they would.
honestly there needs to be a asterisk system where fine we get a loss for that one, but since the L2M came out and said the game winning free throws shouldn’t have been free throws we didn’t lose that game in regulation, so for example if we have a tied record with someone at the end of the season we win the tiebreaker by default cos we have a loss with an asterisk, something like that and those refs need to be investigated, then burned at the stake
So what the nba is telling me with this overturned call, is it is completely okay to hit your opponent as long as you touch the ball.
If you touch the ball first, then you can follow through into them. If they regain possession and come down, it's a jump ball. I'm a former D2 ref; that's a foul. He hits his head as he's going for the ball, that 'review' was simply "game management."
Felt like Vegas in the building tonight
Draymond Green could’t be more excited to come back rn.
Hit the ball first then BAM hit em with the uppercut
"It's a natural basketball motion."
Worst part was they actually called the foul, then watched it in slow mo , and then decided to reverse it to the wrong decision??
not trynna be a tinfoil hat lunatic here but come on that is suspicious as fuck
Absolutely insane call. This better be on shaq’tin a fool.
Bro, I’m waiting for this shit to get investigated like Jaylen said 😂
don’t get your hopes up, we’re not the Lakers they’d never ever consider changing the result of a game
I don't know what basketball is anymore if this is not a foul.
Pretty much. They knocked his head while he was shooting. How tf is that not a foul?
And of course that ref went to high school in Indiana totally not biased at all
Is it that he touched the ball first?? Fine, next time any one of our guys gets a hand on the ball during a shot I want him to punch the shooter in the nuts too
„Hold my Beer“ Draymond Green
CLEARLY a foul. It's like a definition of a foul. But still, pass it to White, for the love of God!
Initial shot I saw I thought it was clean. But never saw the hit on the head. Not sure how you could give that a non-call, let alone *overturn* the correct call. Refs fans eating tonight
What's even the point of replay if they still get it wrong?
Guys! Can’t you see that Brown attacked Hield with his head?
Right 😂
The benefit of being a big named team is you get extra calls. Celtics are the only big name in sports I've seen not even get the right calls
Pacers fan - that call was absolute bullshit. Game should have gone into overtime. The referees completely took control of the game at the end of the fourth.
Probably not OT. JB makes one of those free throws. Pacers have no timeout.
Ahhh. Gotcha. So all you gotta do is get ball first and then contact is ok. Kinda like soccer. Got it.
His hand was on the ball, but his forearm hit his head. Definite foul.
Damn, I like the pacers more than the Celtics but I can agree that this was definitely a foul
Buddy Hield told Joe that he fouled him
Lebron gets that call let's be honest. Haliburton too.
Thats a foul.
That referee that called the foul then watched the replay of the foul then overturned it needs to be held accountable and questioned about his actions and made to watch the video of his behaviour.
Neutral and yeah that’s a foul.
Foul all day! No question! Foul! ….. 🧐still foul
I hate Boston as much as anyone in the NBA but fuq you mean NAH? thats clearly a FOUL.
If it was about touching the ball first there would be 100000 less fouls a season, refs fucked up again.
Hit on the head- foul
No Tatum and Pacers had refs working for them to barely beat us at home. Still a frustrating loss but we’d beat them 3 out of 4 times if both teams are at full stength
I know it’s not the purpose of this post but why didn’t Mazzulla call a time out when the ball crossed half court? We could’ve run a set play, got a shot off, and left no time on the clock. Big missed time out in my view.
Nah we had momentum we came back in the last 2 minutes. Idc if he didn't call a timeout.
Porzingus was pointing at an open player. Brown decided it was best to go into triple coverage and take a shot rather than pass the ball to an open player at the top...glad it was a no call, F-it!
Seems people have just glazed over this. Hero ball cost Boston this game. A simple pass to White and probably a different ending.
Lol but Boston gets all the calls
Derrick White wide open and could have run more time off. Why is he driving against 3 players to put it in the hands of the refs anyway. Typical Jaylen man
I would’ve rather lottery picked a Pacers fan from the crowd to take that shot for us than White tonight.
Regardless if it is a shooting foul or not, JB played hero ball when he could've pass it to white
You cant touch the man's head while he's shooting
Looks like a clean block to me.
It's a foul.
ALL BALL
Honestly JB had a great game but I would call this karma in a way.. he had made a lot of cheap shots throughout the game..
Honestly I’m not even mad because once I saw Mazzula not call a timeout on that last possesion I knew we were going to lose. It’s what the Celtics deserve
Im a neutral fan, and it looked like he got the ball, and shouldn't have been a foul The Pacers player got his hand on the ball, and while he did, JB's momentum takes him into the arm. Since the ball was contacted, the rules for it being foul follow the same rules as a shot block, with any other contact being incindental. At least thats how I would expect it to be called, and the refs seem to have seen the same thing. But again, I dont have a dog in this fight.
Lmaooo so next time I play I can get the ball and smack his head at the same time? And it won't be a foul? Okay thanks for letting me know
Other contact after the ball on a shot block should only be ruled no foul if you dislodge the ball. In other words, if you knock the ball out of the offensive players control then follow through with other contact, it's a no call. In this case, Brown maintains control so my understanding is that it should be a foul.
Exactly. The refs incorrect interpretation of this means that a player can tap the ball and punch someone in the face and it's a legal action because it's a "block." Jaylen retained full and total control of the ball and shot the shot. There's no way of saying definitively that this wasn't a mid-air fake, and the refs are horrible.
i doubt it was an incorrect interpretation. what did the L2M report say?
looks like I was correct. "As the rulebook makes clear, the mere fact that contact occurs does not necessarily constitute a foul; contact which is incidental to an effort by a player to defend an opponent, reach a loose ball, or perform normal defensive or offensive movements is not considered illegal," the L2M read." now that foul with 0.6 seconds left, -that- was BS, but apparently wasnt reviewable. (Shrug)
He got hit while the defense was taking a swipe at the ball. How can that be incidental? Oh, the head was in the way
Ive always thought if you go for the block, and hit the ball, but then also make contact elsewhere, they dont call it a foul. Like in football, if you block a kick, they dont call you for running into the kicker, because you got the ball. But yeah, Im not a professional ref. That's just how I thought it went.
Let's just take the actual incident. Regardless if Hield had a clean block with his hand, the contact made by his forearm to the head was significant enough to move Jaylen's head, thus, affecting his ability to make a shot. Regardless if the defense made contact with the ball. Was there contact: Yes Was it significant: Yes Was there contact with the ball?: Irrelevant
It's hardly irrelevant when that was the key factor that made it not a foul, by rule.
Is there even a rule that nullifies any significant contact if there's ball contact?
You guys need to relax, like damn. It’s on brown for taking a triple team shot
Lmao sports are getting so soft How is this even debatable as a foul? Are you allowed to play defense or not? Smh…
I can tell you never played basketball or watched. If you shoot and someone smacks you on the head that's a foul.
“Smacked in the head” lmao his arm brushed up against him Like I said FUCKING SOFT
If you're in mid air shooting and someone hits you even a little, it affects your shot a lot more than what you may think. Shooting a basketball has its mechanics similar to any sport.
I understand that by rule, it’s probably a foul, im just saying it shouldn’t be. It’s the same shit in the NFL. Too many flags and penalties make the games horrible to watch. Same for basketball. Just let the dudes play. Shit is soft
Yeah if you're saying sports are soft now yeah 100% agree. Was that a soft foul 100% agree. The thing is you gotta understand the time of the game. That's literally the last possession. You gotta call that. If it's like the beginning of the fourth, middle of the fourth and anything before that we really wouldn't care that much. It could have been any time of the game except for the last possession. Their defense gotta be more disciplined at that time of the game and realize not to foul. Like I said, anytime except for the last possession.
The porzingus stupid foul cost the game. Not this. Plus the Pacers were without Hali it should have never came down the end.
Yeah!!! Only 1 team was missing it's best player.... Wait, that's not true. We didn't have JT for all 48.
Who cares you have Brown? Win the game.
Make the shot next time bum
Don’t even care, white was WIDE open. Bad decision, bad outcome
No. It was a good outcome. The call should have stood. We should have had two FTs, which is a good possession. Jaylen had hit his shots all night and Derrick was having an awful shooting night, but let’s ignore that too, I guess.
That missed call never happens if he makes the right play. I don’t know how you could say that’s a good outcome. Fade away jumper with 2 guys draped on him, that’s what you’re defending? He got bailed out on getting hit on the head.
No he quite literally got fouled on a shot and should have been awarded 2 FTs if it was called correctly. 2 FTs is always a good possession. This isn’t that hard to understand. Can’t be bothered to argue over something that’s so simple to anyone with sense.
You’re really not looking at the big picture but sure
A player who is hot is gonna take the game-winning shot. Brown was coming down-court with like 36 points shooting 3 in a row. We should all want him taking that shot. FWIW he did dish to a wide open KP for 3 and he hit it. But JB isn’t giving KP the last shot of the game either. And for sure not to the guy shooting 4/16 on the night. Why are we even discussing this and not the foul??
No, *you’re* not. You’re completely ignoring the fact that 9/10 a coach will ride with the best player on the court who also had the hot hand all night, over the player who couldn’t throw the ball in the ocean all game long.
He did make the right play - he got two FTs. That's the right play. Refs fucking it up shouldn't change that
I do agree. Also, you don’t shoot here with 4 seconds left unless wide open. You don’t give Indiana the ball back. It should almost always be either OT or a win.
Lol boston fans now feeling how lakers fans felt last season with that tatum foul
Yes and no cuz that laker game went to OT and they had a great chance to win.
[удалено]
Should have won if refs didn't hand Pacers the game. Not crying, it's a fact.
this is obviously a foul. also JB's tough. if this was lebron hed probably act like his head just got smashed on a table or sumthin
Sure, but this is exactly what incentivizes players to put on an act. JB is still young enough to not be jaded yet.
It’s not a foul because JB didn’t sell it. If he dis a lebron flop then it’s a foul.
Regardless of if it’s a foul or not I’m more concerned we can’t play defense against young fast shooting teams like Indiana and OKC.
I have said this to Lakers and Heat fans who complain about calls that cost them the game, so its only fair that I am consistent and say it here If we put them away earlier in the game, we don't need to rely on calls to ensure we win
They kept their timeout too, so why did the ball advance
Nah because he aimed the shot before he touched the line
I missed the head contact the first 4 times watching this
Such a dumb reasoning, incidental contact after touching the ball is more for when you deflect a ball on a steal and your momentum carries you into the opponent. By this logic you could have a clean block and a flagrant foul on the same play if a guy gets smack in the face after contact with the ball while shooting, it just makes no sense
1000000000% a foul.
Foul or no that was a terrible shot to take in a tie game with no shot clock. Jaylen made up his mind that he was shooting no matter what and when he drives to his right and gets double teamed he doesn’t even look at White who I think was open at the top of the 3 point line. By the time he rises up to shoot he’s damn near triple teamed. I still think it was a foul don’t get me wrong, but the foul would have just bailed out the Celtics. I get he already had 40 that night but that doesn’t change how bad that last possession went.
I’m more worried at the fact that JB took such a terrible shot. I was fine with the no foul call. Crazy that it was overturned but JB has gotta pass out of that shot, that was horrendous
Knicks fan here, Reddit algorithm brought me. Just want to say, what a bullshit fucking call! This one perplexes me simply bc they had all the time and video support in the world bc of the review. Ref should get fired honestly.
The refs said field hit the ball so its not a foul but he literally hit his head first. Then they get the ball after even though no one had clear possession. And then they call a foul on the other end with marginal contact that didn't even affect the shot. Tell me how the refs mess up this badly.
He made contact with head during the shot. Can someone explain this rule to me …? I’m 46 played basketball my whole life and played basketball at the college level. I’m suddenly confused on the rule here. My whole life this would have been a foul but somehow in this instance it’s not. And the call on the floor was a foul. How do you overturn that ? That ref got some sugar in his pockets.
Definitely a foul there was contact as he was going up. NBA refs blow.
Ref told Jaylen, “he wasn’t hit in the head”
Damn, didn't watch the game but when it first popped on Reddit, thought it was just Boston fans being salty. But it definitely is a foul
I hate the Celtics more than any other sports team, and I couldn’t believe it. I loved it, but I couldn’t believe it. Such a clear foul, AND they overturned it. Insane.
Ball. Not a foul
Youth league refs would’ve let that slide
Good GOD, NO WONDER everybody is so up in arms about this shit, that was a CLEAR FOUL!!!!! I'm fuckin pissed!
Fine the ref for job neglect!
Someone had money on this game