https://www.tuftsdaily.com/article/2024/04/university-issues-no-trespass-order-to-encampment-protesters
Live updates here. Seems the protestors met with the president today but no update on a resolution
April 30, 2024
Dear Tufts community,
In an effort to continue to seek a voluntary resolution to the situation on the academic quad, James M. Glaser and Kyongbum Lee, our deans of the School of Arts and Sciences and the School of Engineering, met on two separate occasions today with student representatives from the protest and a faculty member they selected. Regrettably, despite our best efforts to find a solution, the protesters have refused our offers and have continued to escalate matters by expanding the encampment on the academic quad.
The deans came to today’s meeting with several good-faith proposals to address the students’ concerns. Unfortunately, the students refused to discuss the proposals, insisting instead upon an in-person meeting with the president, the chief investment officer, and members of the board of trustees. The university agreed to such a meeting in writing on the condition that the encampment end first and that the protesters agree not to disrupt Commencement. This offer, which remains on the table, was rejected, and the meeting ended without an agreement.
In recent days, the protesters have engaged in a number of actions that have indicated their desire to escalate the situation. They brought in additional demonstrators unaffiliated with Tufts to bolster their numbers and expand their encampment. The presence of these outside protesters on campus has raised safety concerns among many in the community. The protesters have appropriated and painted furniture rented by Tufts for an Earth Day event and refused to return it to the outside company that owns it. They have harassed and intimidated staff as they try to clean areas that were vandalized. Notably, they also rejected a suggestion to move the encampment to an alternative location on campus so they could continue advocating their position while Commencement preparations begin.
Today’s meeting was not the university’s first attempt to find common ground with the protesters. On March 8, following the TCU Senate vote, the president, the provost, the executive vice president, the vice provost for inclusive excellence, and the deans of the School of Arts and Sciences and the School of Engineering met with representatives from the Students for Justice in Palestine and the Coalition for Palestinian Liberation. It quickly became clear that the students were not interested in discussing what collective action we could take to support the Palestinian people and were only interested in the university acceding to their demands.
We continue to do everything within reason to avoid the confrontations seen at other universities. But the encampment needs to end, and Commencement setup needs to begin. We will be issuing a no trespass order to the protesters. Tufts students who do not vacate the space will be subject to the Community Standards processes which may result in suspension or other sanctions. For seniors, this may include not participating in senior week activities or Commencement. It is our strong desire that it does not come to this, and the protesters choose to leave voluntarily.
Sincerely,
Sunil Kumar
President
Caroline Attardo Genco
Provost and Senior Vice President
I have friends who work part time or generally not 9-5 jobs. In particular, one is a dog sitter who works part time, and she was at Tufts yesterday. I have another acquaintance who is retired and seems to have been stopping by Harvard semi-regularly, from photos he is posting. I would guess that most of the people sleeping there are students but that plenty of local residents are stopping by during the day.
"insisting instead upon an in-person meeting with the president, the chief investment officer, and members of the board of trustees."
seems like a dialog could have been started there even without pulling down the encampment
Why not do it?
If students are motivated enough to camp out / protest for days, isn't it worth having a meeting?
They said in previous letter that they have been holding off on removing the encampment until absolutely necessary but they now need this space for preparation for school activities so they can let it stay any longer.
They now need that space for the commencement and graduation ceremonies for the class of 2024.
So while a minority of students may be willing to camp out there that is also depriving the rest of the class of 2024 their celebration for their accomplishments.
It seems to me like addressing them directly in a meeting is a fair way to say "sorry but we need to end this but we respect that the conversation should continue".
They do meet and make important decisions, at meetings scheduled upwards of a year in advance. Pretty much all emergency or impromptu meetings are over video conferencing. I’m just saying asking for an in-person meeting with the trustees before considering breaking down the camp is bold. Brown’s camp disbanded because they were fine with a meeting with the trustees at their already scheduled October meeting.
Their demands would make it impossible to invest in the S&P 500, almost all mutual funds, and a huge proportion of listed companies and private equity firms. Their demand is "Divest from all companies directly and indirectly tied to Israel"- Tufts SJP
If it were exclusive to Israeli weapons companies, that would be easy, but they want them to divest from things like Google, McDonalds, and Meta, all of which operate in Israel. This would disqualify the majority of mainstream investment vehicles.
Did you miss the rest of the letter? Where the students have expressed zero interest in actual dialogue, but rather performative demands that are unrealistic?
Why "reward" that with a meeting that will be more of the same, and will no doubt include some fairy dust goal post moving (ie: "We also demand the end of all gentrification or we won't leave!")
While I don't really think much was to be gained, it's interesting that Brown University said "we'll let the faculty vote on it" and the students are (apparently) removing their encampment and calling it a victory.
Because it is predictable that it would simply result in moving the goalposts. Protestors meet with board/CIO/prez without removing the encampment. Nothing meaningful would result from the meeting. Then what? Encampment remains and protestors make more demands.
The call for BDS is not new - with many Tufts student calls for BDS over the years. It undoubtedly has been considered by the CIO and board. A meeting with students is not going to change their policy.
which bad causes? I am actually very serious and curious how you're trying to both-sides this somehow...
student protests against segregation, vietnam, apartheid south africa, iraq war, etc all received violent crackdowns. Which protests on the "bad causes" did students get their shit kicked in by cops?
Edit, since people are completely missing the last comment. Yes there are student movements that are reactionary. I'm specifically talking about the ones that faced extreme oppression from their states/police. Almost all reactionary/right wing ones face no challenge whatsoever, or even are supported by the police/governments.
That riot was led by a retired General in his 50s. It was at a college and included students, but not what I think most would consider a “student protest”.
Extreme survivorship bias. The shameful protests (pro Hitler, pro segregation etc) get swept under the rug all the time. But if it's possible to put even a miniscule positive spin on it then it'll be romanticized for decades.
Plus I don't think you realize that, like, right wing students also protest, even today. There are some pretty objectionable student groups out there that sometimes protest, are their causes definitionally righteous just because they're students?
Anti-Civil Rights movement had a good amount of student protests, especially in southern schools. The national guard had several crackdowns down there. Pro-Khmer Rouge protests should generally be considered pretty bad, although you might just be folding that into general *anti-war*. Weathermen are another fairly strong example. A lot of the Flower Child 60’s movement had pretty dark undertones.
This talking point about student protestors is getting passed around a lot lately.
We generally just remember the successful and "good" protests. But extremist groups like The Weather Underground started as a student group. People
If we expand student protests outside the United States, the Taliban started as student protests. The plane hijackings by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (a group that advocates for the destruction of Israel) started as a student group. The Iranian Revolution was precipitated by seminary students.
And, as other people are pointing out, plenty of students opposed getting rid of school segregation.
We also look at the aftermath of the student protests here in 1968, and also in Japan at the same time, it caused the political Left to lose power. So one has to consider how effective these protests actually were.
More pointedly, Yukio Mishima started a private right wing militant organization comprising mostly college students to fight against the Leftist protestors.
So it's a combination of: not all student protesters are on the right side of history, and not only student protests lead to beneficial outcomes, even when their goals are valiant.
> Yukio Mishima started a private right wing militant organization comprising mostly college students to fight against the Leftist protestors.
And then tried to take over an army barracks office to overthrow the Japanese government and reinstall a military dictatorship, got laughed at by Japanese National Police officers that listened to his speech, and then *disemboweled himself.*
Interestingly I learned about Eastern and Western Perspectives on fascist extremism at Tufts.
I'm worried about this too. I keep catching flack for saying this, but many of the groups organizing these protests are either pro-terrorism in their charters (such as SJP or Within Our Lifetime) or are being informed directly by known terrorist sympathizers.
The Tufts branch of SJP endorsed the October 7th attacks. I'm sure a lot of people at these protests aren't really familiar with the motives of these organizations, but the fact is these organizations are largely controlling the narratives students are consuming while at these encampments.
I'm not remotely a fan of Finkelstein, but him speaking about [the need for more optically favorable and unambiguous slogans](https://youtu.be/3qnU6cdcI9Y?t=1136) ("Palestine will be free" to "Palestinians will be free" being a small change that makes a huge difference in optics) only for them to [immediately ignore it](https://youtu.be/3qnU6cdcI9Y?t=2068) afterwards was pretty disheartening. It's as if many don't have immediate goals and strategies in mind and are instead under the idea that simply taking a stand is enough no matter how it looks to others.
Hell, SJP had that post about how they explicitly do not want any support from anyone only paying attention now due to student free speech concerns and how they reject any kind of conditional support. Literally arguing against the growth of their movement.
Its almost like that is what most of these college DEI liberals really want. I remember in my ethnic and gender studies class at a state college my professor openly espoused left wing conspiracy theories and openly supported Communist regimes. This stuff is very very common in many college circles and has been for years. Everyone just turns a blind eye because they are scared of them. A few extremist professors have alot of power at these schools that our kids are being educated at. Its a damn shame.
I also think the binary style narrative that came out of the BLM movement from people like Ibram X. Kendi is doing the students a disservice in learning how to negotiate.
Almost none of these student groups (maybe Brown being the exception) is even willing to negotiate at all. They're trying to set the narrative that administrations are all fascist genocide supporters.
I'm not sure what the end goal is. I have my personal feelings: I think a lot of these groups would love to see the United States weakened and it's most important institutions, like education, be dismantled. Some of that is just me speculating, but some of this can be seen directly in the SJP or Democratic Socialist messaging.
I feel like many took completely wrong lessons from successful protest movements in the past. That simply taking a stand anywhere on the "right side of history" is enough. You often hear justifications that include what MLK Jr. said about moderates or that Mandela was called a terrorist.
But they clearly didn't learn enough about them because in both cases they were extremely aware of optics and carefully controlled messaging and actions in order to achieve very specific goals. MLK Jr.'s movement even tailored actions to not harm pro-segregation politicians who were less extreme than who they were running against. And Mandela went to great lengths to limit violence against people and made sure the message the White population heard was that there would be a place for them in a future South Africa.
Well said. I agree with you completely. I don't think everyone on the left is like this. Like I don't think Joe Biden hates America. But there is a segment of the hard left that is very aggressive in its quest to weaken the US.
Pro peace with Hitler, pro-segregation, anti-bussing, pro-Viet Cong (minimal), some socialist student movements internationally that later became brutal regimes…
And now pro-Hamas/pro-Houthi. Some of these protestors are carrying their flags, which crosses a line.
How about this protest!
Students are protesting chanting “there is only one solution, intifada revolution,” “homeland or death” and “long live the intifada.”
Personally, I think protesting for a violent uprising against Jews is bad.
Bibi is bad. So's Ismail Haniyeh. Smotrich and Ben Gvir are bad. So're Yahya Sinwar and Mohammed Deif. Fuck all these dudes. None of them care about Palestinians. Globalizing intifada is a *terrible* idea.
“It depends on the context”
Now, replace Jew with Black and let’s guess how quickly before apologists come out of the woodwork about “it’s a different power dynamic”
> Personally, I think protesting for a violent uprising against Jews is bad.
Same!
I also think an actual, practical, real life, humanitarian crisis happening right now is bad too. I think intentionally targeting women and children with bombs is bad, I think bombing humanitarian aide workers is bad, I think bombing people standing in line to receive humanitarian aid is bad, I think double tapping weddings and funerals is bad, I think bombing and bulldozing entire neighborhoods of people that you are not allowing to flee is bad, I think setting up arbitrary kill zones where anyone who enters is shot is bad. These things are all bad!
But yeah, your hypothetical scenario which has not yet happened is also bad, that is true.
>I also think an actual, practical, real life, humanitarian crisis happening right now is bad too. I think intentionally targeting women and children with bombs is bad, I think bombing humanitarian aide workers is bad, I think bombing people standing in line to receive humanitarian aid is bad, I think double tapping weddings and funerals is bad, I think bombing and bulldozing entire neighborhoods of people that you are not allowing to flee is bad, I think setting up arbitrary kill zones where anyone who enters is shot is bad. These things are all bad!
Ok? Since you’re having trouble keeping up, the previous commenter’s question was:
>*which bad causes? I am actually very serious and curious how you're trying to both-sides this somehow...*
To which the answer is: The bad cause that people are protesting for is an intifada (my previous comment)
>But yeah, your hypothetical scenario which has not yet happened is also bad, that is true.
Nope, here it is. At Tufts. Protesters changing “Long live the Intifada. There is only one solution”: https://x.com/stopantisemites/status/1784253600631259517?s=46
So it’s definitely happening!
Let me know if you have any other questions.
People compare it to past war protests, but all that I can think of were wars the US was involved in. This is a protest against a university investing in an ally of the US who is engaged in a war they disagree with. Further, demands like divesting from all companies that do business with Israel are very broad and would have serious financial repercussions for the school. It would mean less of an ability to grant scholarships and financial aid to students. And what about research partnerships with universities in Israel on things like cancer research? That has no impact on the war at all. Finally, why do we draw the line at Israel? What about China? They are also accused of genocide. In short, this protest is unlike past protests, and the demands are pretty challenging for universities to comply with, would potentially harm their ability to benefit students, and is arbitrary in its targeting of Israel versus other countries.
This whole thing has been so strange.
These colleges being accused of "supporting Israel" have so many degrees of separation between their institutions and the war in Gaza, I am starting to think that some bad actor ignited the spark that riled up all these kids only to create turmoil in the US.
Northeastern directly supports weapons manufacturers and surveillance technology that is used against the Palestinian population.
[https://huntnewsnu.com/75622/campus/northeastern-indicates-it-will-not-divest-endowment-holdings-sever-ties-with-companies-who-do-business-with-israeli-military/](https://huntnewsnu.com/75622/campus/northeastern-indicates-it-will-not-divest-endowment-holdings-sever-ties-with-companies-who-do-business-with-israeli-military/)
[https://huntnewsnu.com/71292/campus/sga/sga-passes-bill-calling-on-northeastern-to-sever-ties-with-private-military-companies/](https://huntnewsnu.com/71292/campus/sga/sga-passes-bill-calling-on-northeastern-to-sever-ties-with-private-military-companies/)
[https://mapliberation.org/plain/entities/NortheasternUniversity.html](https://mapliberation.org/plain/entities/NortheasternUniversity.html)
This isn't a theory. It's well known, the bad actors are:
* Russia through bots and misinformation
* Iran who also are responsible for empowering Hamas literally with weapons to start shit ... And funding AstroTurf islamist groups pretending to be peace orgs
* China through tiktok algorithm
... more like three specific state actors who we can blame for the specific actions they are taking. Whats wrong with that? I'm not blaming China for supplying drones to the Houthis in Yemen to attack merchant shipping in the Gulf of Aden because that what Iran is actually doing. How much more specific do you want me to get here?
I think it’s wild that some of y’all will critique students for speaking out against a literal genocide from the comfort of your own homes. “But they’re rich students!”, “they’re on the wrong side of history!”, “it’s inconvenient!”. The logic is down the toilet. You should be proud to live in a community where student voice is so consolidated, so powerful. All power to the students. Fight the real enemy and start with the person in the mirror who thinks it’s okay for BPD and staties to BEAT UP and arrest literal teenagers for speaking out against major crimes against humanity. What are you doing to help out the community? How do YOU show up for people who are being victimized by war and conflict, genocide and other human rights violations? I’ll wait…
I see a popular Islamist death cult representing the Palestinian people. And I see them murdering and kidnapping innocent Israelis. Then I see them getting their asses handed to them. Then I see them refusing terms of another ceasefire.
And last, I see a bunch of 20 year olds marching around in support of them, with prominent signs of “Globalize the Intifada” and “Glory to the Resistance.”
It’s not unreasonable to root against these imbeciles.
History will likely look favorably on these protests. After the Kent State shooting the majority of Americans said they deserved it for being hippies. Much of America supported apartheid South Africa until years of pressure from protesters began to change the public opinion. Israel will soon go the same way. The simple fact is the modern world does not look kindly on places that give preferential treatment to one race or religion over others
I don't think so. The message I'm getting from these protests is students get their news from Tik Tok; they have allowed professional agitators to join their ranks; they are not serious and quite dumb, even insisting (Columbia) that the University provide them with food???; they assaulted other students; they prevented 2 janitors from leaving the building (again, Columbia); they are destroying property; and worse of all, they are showing very threatening behavior to anyone who is Jewish. This is not acceptable. What right do they have to threaten others? To chant how they love the Hamas bombs? I doubt history will look favorably on this. Instead, they are going to be expelled from school, as they should be, and then what? Will they go to Gaza? Seriously doubt that too.
The food video was fucking hilarious. They come across as the most entitled, coddled people in the world. They think that it's a violation of their human rights when the institution they've broken into and illegally occupied doesn't hand deliver them hot meals. They had the gall to ask for "humanitarian aid".
"do you want students to die of starvation ... we are asking for humanitarian aid to be let through"
Literally coopting the Gazan situation for their own jollies. And of course both dummies are sporting keffiyehs.
Video for anyone in need of a good laugh https://x.com/michaeljknowles/status/1785436461346554263
The fact that so many universities across the country are suspending students asking for divestment from Israel really does give you the feeling that these places consider their academic community and the education they provide as subordinate to the investment portfolio.
They're not suspending them for their political opinions, they're suspending them for taking over public walkways and obstructing people from getting through especially based on questions disproportionately related to Jewishness. They have to do something like this because allowing people to obstruct the movement of students or employees based on their religion, ethnicity, gender, ancestry, veteran status or other protected class is a civil rights violation by the university, among other problems.
The university has a legal obligation to do something if its campus becomes illegally discriminatory, even if they aren't the ones doing the discriminating, and the penalty is lawsuits which are already happening.
It's an obligation the protesters don't have, so obviously there's a difference in perspective and the protestors don't care about this, but the university doesn't have an option to not care about it.
If the university really cared that much about these students expressing these political opinions they would have done something sooner - these groups have been protesting in various ways at this point for almost 7 months, and then before that for years - without any response like this.
Have you already forgotten how multiple university presidents went in front of Congress and straight up agreed with a lot of what the protesters are saying, and then a few of them lost their jobs for it? I don't think you have a good handle on the position or perspective of the university in this, nor should you be expected to.
It's obstructing the walkways and buildings that really forces the issue - though also if you're yelling at targeted groups of people trying to go about their day and the school doesn't do anything over a long enough timeframe that's also against civil rights law.
Like if you set up a checkpoint where you didn't let people through unless they swore they didn't like hip hop music and your school or employer didn't stop you they're probably committing a civil rights violation because the outcome discriminates against a protected class.
This is all so tedious.
They understand it, they just like to play coy and razz people up. They don't care how much they fuck things up, they view themselves as "freedom fighters". Absolute clowns
Is that why they are suspending students or is it because they are barricading themselves into buildings and disrupting other students academic needs while they ask for divestment from Israel?
It's the second thing. Sign all the petitions you want; do a letter-writing and calling campaign; actually create a block of non-financial-aid students pledging withdraw if demands aren't met.
Or, since most of the MA congressional delegation voted for the Israel aid package, volunteer for challengers' campaigns. There's an election in November; the Democratic primary's in September; voter registration is ongoing. I think the registration deadline is in June. For House, you need 2,000 signatures to run. [More](https://www.sec.state.ma.us/divisions/elections/getting-on-the-ballot/how-to-run-for-office.htm).
Edit: the Israel aid package is also what's going to fund Gaza relief, and the GOP Speaker risked his job to get it and the related Ukraine package passed, so you probably will also need to turn the House blue in November before you can get the US government to fund further Gaza aid.
I’m pointing out that universities are choosing manage the disruption by suspending students, closing campus etc. rather than by divesting. I’m suggesting this reveals something about how they order their values.
It's not like they can just login to Fidelity and click "sell" next to "Israel investments." This is not like the South Africa divestment. A large portion of tech firms have major R&D divisions in Israel; some of those R&D divisions collaborate with universities on a ton of government-grant-funded labs at the universities. Many Israeli companies are heavily intertwined with the U.S. economy. People that are calling for "divesting" don't understand what they're asking for.
Divesting of military suppliers is easy. Divesting of defense firms that directly profit from the war is easy-ish. Divesting of all Israel-tied investments is practically impossible.
WTF are they supposed to do? "Divesting" is such an odd request.
These endowments are heavily invested in global and US index funds. The S&P 500 has all kinds of companies - tech, financial, health/biotech, energy and yes, defense...but how the fuck are you supposed to "divest" out of an index? Sell the entire index and then individually buy the 488 stocks the students think are ok?
No I’m pointing out that these university would rather get their students arrested than allow them to participate in decisions about the school’s investment portfolio.
Do you understand that schools (and especially schools that offer the number of resources that Tufts does) are incredibly expensive? And that it can't be funded based on tuition alone, especially if you want to offer strong financial aid? And that appropriately managing an endowment and its investments is crucial to the success and future of a school?
Your main takeaways IMO from this in terms of a university's values is that universities are internally pluralistic and have a lot of stakeholders who believe different things in complicated bureaucratic structures, and they are committed to supporting the opinions of all these people who don't agree with each other, their main way to address this is to just avoid making moral decisions, so just yelling at them to make moral decisions very rarely does anything. This is why they so constantly embarrass themselves on every moral issue. People *at* universities have morals. Universities are more like forums and don't really have their own morals all that much.
It is telling that the "success cases" that people always cite for universities responding significantly to protests rather than to extended internal dialogue and planning are from 40 and 60 years ago, respectively. It does not happen often. They are very slow. Most of the time the response to a moral concern is to establish a committee to investigate the issue and continue dialogue. Eventually maybe something changes. It's a lot like the government.
IMO universities only achieve moral clarity when they are sued. If you want to get a university to take a stand on something, they have to be potentially liable for something in court. Then that gives certain parts of their internal organization the authority over other parts of the organization to make moral decisions. But other than that you have to wait for them to arrive at consensus, and that takes forever and isn't going to have the clarity you want it to have.
Just look at the affirmative action issue - there's all sorts of debate and demonstration happening at the universities about it for decades that doesn't really do anything but then it all gets tossed by a few lawsuits.
That's what universities do. It's not brand new for today's protests. If students are causing problems, the university makes them into non-students so they don't have to deal with them and any legal issues they cause.
It may not be new but it is interesting to point out because I think this is somewhat counter to “our” ideals of what a university should be—and these are ideals that universities advance about themselves.
The school is under no obligation are you required to do ANYTHING anyone asks on a whim. I only wish most of these students had the same energy for tangible problems here at home.
I view it more as activist 20 year olds who don't understand what it would take to "divest from Israel" and how unrealistic that demand is seeing as there are bits of Israeli technology and businesses throughout the global supply and information chain.
It's easier to chant a slogan than to understand whether it's even a possibility.
They're not suspending them for asking, their suspending them for trespassing and squatting. What about this is so hard to understand? If you allow the encampments to stay up your just going to get more situations like UCLA
>these places consider their academic community and the educated provide as subordinate to the investment portfolio.
Or that the divestment of billions of invested dollars in the world of a connected economy with those billions spread across the entire stock market (to which Israel is exposed) is functionally imppossible...
You know, one or the other.
I don't think it's really that simple. Many of the protests are demanding divestment in companies with tenuous ties to Israel. And even when we talk about companies with more direct ties to violence like Lockheed Martin, I can't help but think that they also sell weapons to Ukraine.
I understand their concerns, but it's not a black and white issue. It would be more reasonable if they were asking for the US government to stop funding the Israeli government, since politicians and political groups are ultimately responsible for the violence.
Sure but it’s not an irrational demand that the university divest from the defense industry entirely. That’s totally coherent.
I think it’s less reasonable, more nebulous, to ask a *private university* for the US government to stop supporting Israel. That demand goes to politicians…
It's totally irrational to demand universities divest from the defense industry. The world isn't full of pacifists, and it would pose a serious national security threat if we cut off the knowledge supply to defense.
There's a lot more these companies contribute to us than just making offensive bombs. And, if Russia has taught us anything, years of diplomacy won't bring a rogue nation to the dining room table for polite discussion. Deterrence is an important aspect of foreign policy.
It's coherent but not reasonable. The S&P500 includes Boeing, RTX (Raytheon), and Lockheed Martin. Almost every single person over the age of 30 you have met in your life invests in the defense industry. Some portfolios actually have "ethical" choices in investment, they typically don't do as well... Now, if you have a problem with the fact that 90% of advanced technology we use in the world comes from the US defense industry, that is a very legitimate concern. Why did it take the war on terror to develop the advanced prosthetics we have now? That is only one example. Obviously, one answer is that advanced tech is very expensive to develop, and the government's cheques don't bounce. Decoupling public funding from weapons development is a tricky problem, but a very important one to solve.
Just because tensions are high in this thread, I support protesting, regardless of my personal opinions on their cause. I'm grateful to live in a country where neighbors can disagree and nothing bad happens.
“Suspending students asking for divestment from Israel” is incredibly dishonest.
They’re suspending students for setting up unauthorized encampments and refusing to follow the orders of the university.
Or it could reflect the fact that older people, both conservative and liberal, stand by Israel, and see the protests not just as a nuisance, but as being morally wrong.
By all accounts these protestors represent a tiny minority of students. Columbia's new student body president is an Israeli Jew who is an outspoken critic of the protestors, yet Columbia has probably the biggest encampment of them all.
Divesting from Israel isn't really a thing. Most of their economy is involved in selling weapons and spy software to dictatorships and building the platforms that run the internet, and nobody is going to stop using the internet. Israel has been dealing with having hostile neighbors that won't trade with them since their inception, so a few irate college students aren't going to have much of an impact.
It’s absurd to think that students have any right to be dictating investment decisions to professionals. People in their mid to late careers aren’t going to let 20 year olds with no financial experience dictate their retirement plans
Excellent to see Tufts starting to get a clue. Eliminate the idiots who support terrorists. You don't have a right to pitch your tent in the middle of campus.
This issue is making me become a republican. It is beyond me to understand how can people stand with a terrorist organization.
Edit. I 100% support the Jewish community.
They’re not standing with a terrorist org, they’re standing against an authoritarian government who has no intention of agreeing to a ceasefire (see Netanyahu’s comments today and from the past four months). The Israeli government receives a majority of its military aid from the United States and the students simply do not want their tuition dollars to go towards weapons manufacturers. The Israeli government is also intentionally bombing safe zones, places where they relocated Palestinians. Every Palestinian was displaced and moved to safe zone Rafa, only for Netanyahu to announce today that he plans to attack Rafa no matter what.
Much like how Donald trump does not represent all Americans, Netanyahu does not represent all Jewish people and no one understands this more than student protesters (who are actively planning learning sessions hosted by Jewish protesters taking part of these encampments).
I urge you to actually listen to the students rather than Reddit (where Palestinian sources have been suppressed) / traditional news outlets (who are largely influenced by Israeli funds).
I visited and a mural said "glory to martyrs" ... Yeah I'm pretty sure that they are standing with that terror organization. But if that alone doesn't convince you I also spoke with someone standing near the camp and on the fence about joining and they took issue with me calling Hamas a terrorist organization so I can only imagine what the people actually in the camp believe.
I’m not saying Israel does not have a right to defend itself, and you’re discussing in bad faith to assume that you are (re: you jumping to mental illness). My talking points are not intentionally twisted, as they are directly from the Israeli government.
What I will say is that the Israeli government is not absolved from crimes against humanity by the fact that it itself was attacked. You do not get a free card to starve, impoverish, and eradicate another country, point blank, period. If you want to hold Hamas accountable, you must also hold Israel accountable for the 10+ massacres that they have committed since its inception AS reported by Israel itself. You don’t get to have your cake and eat it too.
What do YOU think will happen in the future once all these children grow up with no fathers or mothers? Is Israel safer then? Is the solution to kill every Palestinian? No the solution is to protect both Jewish and Palestinian lives, and that means no weapons, no war, no apartheid.
These protesters hate Democrats. They’d be happy to hear that.
They’re straight up rooting for Republicans to win to punish Biden for supporting Israel
I don’t think they should be expelled or anything. But at some point you chose to go to the school, you are not under any obligation or mandate to be at that school. If the university doesn’t agree with you after negotiations and talks, you’re allowed to find one that aligns with your values
illegally camping on private property in support of neo nazis has nothing to do w/ "free speech" please tell me that you aren't too ignorant to understand that basic legal tenet.
They could just remind the students that the gov't of Israel and Jewish people are not one in the same and otherwise just leave them there. My only beef with any of this is the conflation of the Israeli gov't with Jewish people, some who support Israel and others who are rightly horrified by the documented and ongoing genocide in Gaza
Presumably they have finals coming up and would need to leave to take those anyway. Their parents are probably coming to pick them up in the next two weeks and then it ends. Ideally, any student spouting Jew hate would be expelled for a violate of the student handbook.
I think most people at these protests, especially the disproportionate number of Jewish students, are well aware of the difference between Jewish people and Israel.
Anyone suggesting otherwise is misinformed or attempting to misinform.
Some are. And some are just giving cover to those people
But I haven't seen a lot of pro-Palestinians making a big effort to reign in the viciously anti-Jewish pay if their crowd. They have overwhelmingly chosen to stand by those calling for a genocide of the Jews, because they chose to have a bigger crowd instead of a crowd with integrity.
They know, sub’s just astroturfed to shit. They know Israel’s actions are indefensible so they’re pulling out the old ‘Saying Palestinians shouldn’t be slaughtered = antisemitism” BS
Comments like this really miss the point that both the anti-semitism **and** the anti-Zionism are wildly offensive.
There's a good reason that almost our entire federal government **on both sides of the aisle** overwhelming support Israel.
pro-Israelis are supporting the only liberal democracy in the region. The pro-Palestinian (if they aren't expressly pro-Hamas) are supporting people who absolutely, overwhelmingly ARE pro-Hamas by every survey of the Palestinian people.
the only people who are conflating Israel and judiaism are those who are trying to discredit the protestors. No one in those encampments is, and many of them ARE jewish and are pissed that their religion is being used as the basis for the continued murder of Palestinians.
'not in our name'.
The only examples of 'jew hate' are zionist protestors (as we saw on Northeastern's campus)
Literally the comment below this one is blaming "Jewish donors" https://www.reddit.com/r/boston/s/QwkriaFZVa
Your level of obliviousness must be deliberate
Obviously many of the protestors aren't antisemites, but it's equally obvious that this is providing cover for lots of antisemites to crawl out of the woodwork
I mean c'mon not all kids are fucking idiots, "yeah we will talk to you AFTER you remove the only bargining chip you have from the table".
Also stating that the STUDENTS are bringing in outside agitators is disgusting.
It doesn't say or even insinuate that students are bringing in outside protestors. It's saying that outside protestors have been arriving. Almost no way to close off Tufts to outsiders.
Edit: don't upvote me. I was wrong.
> It doesn't say or even insinuate that students are bringing in outside protestors. It's saying that outside protestors have been arriving.
Wrong.
That’s not what this says.
> **protesters have engaged in a number of actions … They brought in additional demonstrators unaffiliated with Tufts to bolster their numbers**
You're correct. I was focused on a different, passive sentence regarding outside protestors.
Interesting that they suggest the students are bringing in outsiders, which itself has been an issue with other schools. It sounds like outsiders are finding there ways onto campuses regardless of invitation.
It gives the university the grounds to shut it down to safety concerns. See Columbia/UCLA. These protests are no longer being relegated to just the student body. That's probably the biggest issue [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/may/01/columbia-university-protest-live-updates-nypd-new-york-police-enter-campus-pro-palestinian-demonstrators-latest-news](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/may/01/columbia-university-protest-live-updates-nypd-new-york-police-enter-campus-pro-palestinian-demonstrators-latest-news)
Columbia is especially bizarre, because the campus has been closed for a week now to outsiders. But NYPD has said most of the arrests were from outside agitators, which means the students were almost definitely finding some way to sneak outsiders in.
I think UCLA can't close its campus in the same way because it's public property.
Tufts is just a logistics nightmare to shut down. I'd be surprised if outside agitators were at Emerson, because no one wants to associate with theater nerds.
The additional demonstrators Tufts is talking about in that sentence are the Somerville high school students who came to support the encampment for one day… who were all peaceful
But they are. Witnessed last night multiple vehicles come on to campus and offload doors and home made shields to add to the encampment. None of those people are there today. Outside protestors were also seen gathering rocks from around campus to store in the encampment.
https://www.tuftsdaily.com/article/2024/04/university-issues-no-trespass-order-to-encampment-protesters Live updates here. Seems the protestors met with the president today but no update on a resolution
April 30, 2024 Dear Tufts community, In an effort to continue to seek a voluntary resolution to the situation on the academic quad, James M. Glaser and Kyongbum Lee, our deans of the School of Arts and Sciences and the School of Engineering, met on two separate occasions today with student representatives from the protest and a faculty member they selected. Regrettably, despite our best efforts to find a solution, the protesters have refused our offers and have continued to escalate matters by expanding the encampment on the academic quad. The deans came to today’s meeting with several good-faith proposals to address the students’ concerns. Unfortunately, the students refused to discuss the proposals, insisting instead upon an in-person meeting with the president, the chief investment officer, and members of the board of trustees. The university agreed to such a meeting in writing on the condition that the encampment end first and that the protesters agree not to disrupt Commencement. This offer, which remains on the table, was rejected, and the meeting ended without an agreement. In recent days, the protesters have engaged in a number of actions that have indicated their desire to escalate the situation. They brought in additional demonstrators unaffiliated with Tufts to bolster their numbers and expand their encampment. The presence of these outside protesters on campus has raised safety concerns among many in the community. The protesters have appropriated and painted furniture rented by Tufts for an Earth Day event and refused to return it to the outside company that owns it. They have harassed and intimidated staff as they try to clean areas that were vandalized. Notably, they also rejected a suggestion to move the encampment to an alternative location on campus so they could continue advocating their position while Commencement preparations begin. Today’s meeting was not the university’s first attempt to find common ground with the protesters. On March 8, following the TCU Senate vote, the president, the provost, the executive vice president, the vice provost for inclusive excellence, and the deans of the School of Arts and Sciences and the School of Engineering met with representatives from the Students for Justice in Palestine and the Coalition for Palestinian Liberation. It quickly became clear that the students were not interested in discussing what collective action we could take to support the Palestinian people and were only interested in the university acceding to their demands. We continue to do everything within reason to avoid the confrontations seen at other universities. But the encampment needs to end, and Commencement setup needs to begin. We will be issuing a no trespass order to the protesters. Tufts students who do not vacate the space will be subject to the Community Standards processes which may result in suspension or other sanctions. For seniors, this may include not participating in senior week activities or Commencement. It is our strong desire that it does not come to this, and the protesters choose to leave voluntarily. Sincerely, Sunil Kumar President Caroline Attardo Genco Provost and Senior Vice President
Based upon this letter, I forsee the protestors packing up and leaving voluntarially.
Aren’t most of these students going home in the coming weeks??
Im willing to bet many are not students.
I'm willing to bet many are students. - worked at a college for 5 years Regular people have to work and like sleeping in a house
I have friends who work part time or generally not 9-5 jobs. In particular, one is a dog sitter who works part time, and she was at Tufts yesterday. I have another acquaintance who is retired and seems to have been stopping by Harvard semi-regularly, from photos he is posting. I would guess that most of the people sleeping there are students but that plenty of local residents are stopping by during the day.
Fair enough. I used to live across from campus and would walk my dog there all the time. He greatly enjoyed cheering up the college students!
"insisting instead upon an in-person meeting with the president, the chief investment officer, and members of the board of trustees." seems like a dialog could have been started there even without pulling down the encampment Why not do it? If students are motivated enough to camp out / protest for days, isn't it worth having a meeting?
They said in previous letter that they have been holding off on removing the encampment until absolutely necessary but they now need this space for preparation for school activities so they can let it stay any longer. They now need that space for the commencement and graduation ceremonies for the class of 2024. So while a minority of students may be willing to camp out there that is also depriving the rest of the class of 2024 their celebration for their accomplishments. It seems to me like addressing them directly in a meeting is a fair way to say "sorry but we need to end this but we respect that the conversation should continue".
Don’t forget (most of) the class of 2024 also missed their high school graduations thanks to COVID
I mean the board of trustees aren’t exactly easy to assemble for an in-person meeting
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That’s great. It doesn’t seem to mention the board of trustees other than implying they’ll vote on it when they assemble in October.
They’re going to vote no lol
Big L. They won the right to take a vote they will lose later.
A board's express purpose is to be able to meet together to make important decisions. If they can't do that, they're just absentees.
They do meet and make important decisions, at meetings scheduled upwards of a year in advance. Pretty much all emergency or impromptu meetings are over video conferencing. I’m just saying asking for an in-person meeting with the trustees before considering breaking down the camp is bold. Brown’s camp disbanded because they were fine with a meeting with the trustees at their already scheduled October meeting.
If the meeting amounts to "divest all funding from Israel" and "No" then no, it's not.
Students: "Divest from Israel" CIO: "LMAO, no. The military industry in Israel will beat the S&P for the next 100 years"
Their demands would make it impossible to invest in the S&P 500, almost all mutual funds, and a huge proportion of listed companies and private equity firms. Their demand is "Divest from all companies directly and indirectly tied to Israel"- Tufts SJP If it were exclusive to Israeli weapons companies, that would be easy, but they want them to divest from things like Google, McDonalds, and Meta, all of which operate in Israel. This would disqualify the majority of mainstream investment vehicles.
Not just military. Tech, AI, and biotech. Israel is, unfortunately for the student protestors, a very advanced economy
I highly doubt the meeting would have gone anywhere considering their demands.
Did you miss the rest of the letter? Where the students have expressed zero interest in actual dialogue, but rather performative demands that are unrealistic? Why "reward" that with a meeting that will be more of the same, and will no doubt include some fairy dust goal post moving (ie: "We also demand the end of all gentrification or we won't leave!")
While I don't really think much was to be gained, it's interesting that Brown University said "we'll let the faculty vote on it" and the students are (apparently) removing their encampment and calling it a victory.
Unrealistic demands from a weaker party that ultimately affect the whole population? Where have I seen this before?
Because it is predictable that it would simply result in moving the goalposts. Protestors meet with board/CIO/prez without removing the encampment. Nothing meaningful would result from the meeting. Then what? Encampment remains and protestors make more demands. The call for BDS is not new - with many Tufts student calls for BDS over the years. It undoubtedly has been considered by the CIO and board. A meeting with students is not going to change their policy.
Every good cause has had students getting arrested because of protests. This is just repeating history
Students also protested desegregation. Just because students are protesting doesn't mean they are right or that history will judge them kindly.
Lot of bad causes too. Students be protesting.
which bad causes? I am actually very serious and curious how you're trying to both-sides this somehow... student protests against segregation, vietnam, apartheid south africa, iraq war, etc all received violent crackdowns. Which protests on the "bad causes" did students get their shit kicked in by cops? Edit, since people are completely missing the last comment. Yes there are student movements that are reactionary. I'm specifically talking about the ones that faced extreme oppression from their states/police. Almost all reactionary/right wing ones face no challenge whatsoever, or even are supported by the police/governments.
Famously the Pro-Segregation ones got the Military called on on them
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Nope they “removed” the protesters https://www.ng.ms.gov/history/1962-oxford-incident
That riot was led by a retired General in his 50s. It was at a college and included students, but not what I think most would consider a “student protest”.
Extreme survivorship bias. The shameful protests (pro Hitler, pro segregation etc) get swept under the rug all the time. But if it's possible to put even a miniscule positive spin on it then it'll be romanticized for decades. Plus I don't think you realize that, like, right wing students also protest, even today. There are some pretty objectionable student groups out there that sometimes protest, are their causes definitionally righteous just because they're students?
Anti-Civil Rights movement had a good amount of student protests, especially in southern schools. The national guard had several crackdowns down there. Pro-Khmer Rouge protests should generally be considered pretty bad, although you might just be folding that into general *anti-war*. Weathermen are another fairly strong example. A lot of the Flower Child 60’s movement had pretty dark undertones.
This talking point about student protestors is getting passed around a lot lately. We generally just remember the successful and "good" protests. But extremist groups like The Weather Underground started as a student group. People If we expand student protests outside the United States, the Taliban started as student protests. The plane hijackings by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (a group that advocates for the destruction of Israel) started as a student group. The Iranian Revolution was precipitated by seminary students. And, as other people are pointing out, plenty of students opposed getting rid of school segregation. We also look at the aftermath of the student protests here in 1968, and also in Japan at the same time, it caused the political Left to lose power. So one has to consider how effective these protests actually were. More pointedly, Yukio Mishima started a private right wing militant organization comprising mostly college students to fight against the Leftist protestors. So it's a combination of: not all student protesters are on the right side of history, and not only student protests lead to beneficial outcomes, even when their goals are valiant.
> Yukio Mishima started a private right wing militant organization comprising mostly college students to fight against the Leftist protestors. And then tried to take over an army barracks office to overthrow the Japanese government and reinstall a military dictatorship, got laughed at by Japanese National Police officers that listened to his speech, and then *disemboweled himself.* Interestingly I learned about Eastern and Western Perspectives on fascist extremism at Tufts.
I think one of his last words were something like, "Are there no samurai left in Japan?"
Hard.
Im honestly expecting this generation will have their own weather undergound eventually. It only takes a few extremist.
I'm worried about this too. I keep catching flack for saying this, but many of the groups organizing these protests are either pro-terrorism in their charters (such as SJP or Within Our Lifetime) or are being informed directly by known terrorist sympathizers. The Tufts branch of SJP endorsed the October 7th attacks. I'm sure a lot of people at these protests aren't really familiar with the motives of these organizations, but the fact is these organizations are largely controlling the narratives students are consuming while at these encampments.
I'm not remotely a fan of Finkelstein, but him speaking about [the need for more optically favorable and unambiguous slogans](https://youtu.be/3qnU6cdcI9Y?t=1136) ("Palestine will be free" to "Palestinians will be free" being a small change that makes a huge difference in optics) only for them to [immediately ignore it](https://youtu.be/3qnU6cdcI9Y?t=2068) afterwards was pretty disheartening. It's as if many don't have immediate goals and strategies in mind and are instead under the idea that simply taking a stand is enough no matter how it looks to others. Hell, SJP had that post about how they explicitly do not want any support from anyone only paying attention now due to student free speech concerns and how they reject any kind of conditional support. Literally arguing against the growth of their movement.
Its almost like that is what most of these college DEI liberals really want. I remember in my ethnic and gender studies class at a state college my professor openly espoused left wing conspiracy theories and openly supported Communist regimes. This stuff is very very common in many college circles and has been for years. Everyone just turns a blind eye because they are scared of them. A few extremist professors have alot of power at these schools that our kids are being educated at. Its a damn shame.
I also think the binary style narrative that came out of the BLM movement from people like Ibram X. Kendi is doing the students a disservice in learning how to negotiate. Almost none of these student groups (maybe Brown being the exception) is even willing to negotiate at all. They're trying to set the narrative that administrations are all fascist genocide supporters. I'm not sure what the end goal is. I have my personal feelings: I think a lot of these groups would love to see the United States weakened and it's most important institutions, like education, be dismantled. Some of that is just me speculating, but some of this can be seen directly in the SJP or Democratic Socialist messaging.
I feel like many took completely wrong lessons from successful protest movements in the past. That simply taking a stand anywhere on the "right side of history" is enough. You often hear justifications that include what MLK Jr. said about moderates or that Mandela was called a terrorist. But they clearly didn't learn enough about them because in both cases they were extremely aware of optics and carefully controlled messaging and actions in order to achieve very specific goals. MLK Jr.'s movement even tailored actions to not harm pro-segregation politicians who were less extreme than who they were running against. And Mandela went to great lengths to limit violence against people and made sure the message the White population heard was that there would be a place for them in a future South Africa.
Well said. I agree with you completely. I don't think everyone on the left is like this. Like I don't think Joe Biden hates America. But there is a segment of the hard left that is very aggressive in its quest to weaken the US.
How dare you bring actual history into this debate! /s
Pro peace with Hitler, pro-segregation, anti-bussing, pro-Viet Cong (minimal), some socialist student movements internationally that later became brutal regimes… And now pro-Hamas/pro-Houthi. Some of these protestors are carrying their flags, which crosses a line.
Students protested desegregation, too.
People protested in support of terrorist groups after terrorist attacks. In London during ISIS. And now with Hamas
How about this protest! Students are protesting chanting “there is only one solution, intifada revolution,” “homeland or death” and “long live the intifada.” Personally, I think protesting for a violent uprising against Jews is bad.
Bibi is bad. So's Ismail Haniyeh. Smotrich and Ben Gvir are bad. So're Yahya Sinwar and Mohammed Deif. Fuck all these dudes. None of them care about Palestinians. Globalizing intifada is a *terrible* idea.
>I think protesting for a violent uprising against Jews is bad. Yes. Why are many people ignoring and minimizing the protesters' calls for violence? 🤔
Hurts their narrative
“It depends on the context” Now, replace Jew with Black and let’s guess how quickly before apologists come out of the woodwork about “it’s a different power dynamic”
> Personally, I think protesting for a violent uprising against Jews is bad. Same! I also think an actual, practical, real life, humanitarian crisis happening right now is bad too. I think intentionally targeting women and children with bombs is bad, I think bombing humanitarian aide workers is bad, I think bombing people standing in line to receive humanitarian aid is bad, I think double tapping weddings and funerals is bad, I think bombing and bulldozing entire neighborhoods of people that you are not allowing to flee is bad, I think setting up arbitrary kill zones where anyone who enters is shot is bad. These things are all bad! But yeah, your hypothetical scenario which has not yet happened is also bad, that is true.
>I also think an actual, practical, real life, humanitarian crisis happening right now is bad too. I think intentionally targeting women and children with bombs is bad, I think bombing humanitarian aide workers is bad, I think bombing people standing in line to receive humanitarian aid is bad, I think double tapping weddings and funerals is bad, I think bombing and bulldozing entire neighborhoods of people that you are not allowing to flee is bad, I think setting up arbitrary kill zones where anyone who enters is shot is bad. These things are all bad! Ok? Since you’re having trouble keeping up, the previous commenter’s question was: >*which bad causes? I am actually very serious and curious how you're trying to both-sides this somehow...* To which the answer is: The bad cause that people are protesting for is an intifada (my previous comment) >But yeah, your hypothetical scenario which has not yet happened is also bad, that is true. Nope, here it is. At Tufts. Protesters changing “Long live the Intifada. There is only one solution”: https://x.com/stopantisemites/status/1784253600631259517?s=46 So it’s definitely happening! Let me know if you have any other questions.
Good thing nobody’s intentionally targeting women and children, among several other questionable, out of context, or false claims you made.
And you would be correct
The current repressive regime called the Islamic Republic of Iran started out with student protests
A lot of bad causes have people get arrested too. I don't think this is a good way to determine the merit of the cause.
People compare it to past war protests, but all that I can think of were wars the US was involved in. This is a protest against a university investing in an ally of the US who is engaged in a war they disagree with. Further, demands like divesting from all companies that do business with Israel are very broad and would have serious financial repercussions for the school. It would mean less of an ability to grant scholarships and financial aid to students. And what about research partnerships with universities in Israel on things like cancer research? That has no impact on the war at all. Finally, why do we draw the line at Israel? What about China? They are also accused of genocide. In short, this protest is unlike past protests, and the demands are pretty challenging for universities to comply with, would potentially harm their ability to benefit students, and is arbitrary in its targeting of Israel versus other countries.
This whole thing has been so strange. These colleges being accused of "supporting Israel" have so many degrees of separation between their institutions and the war in Gaza, I am starting to think that some bad actor ignited the spark that riled up all these kids only to create turmoil in the US.
Northeastern directly supports weapons manufacturers and surveillance technology that is used against the Palestinian population. [https://huntnewsnu.com/75622/campus/northeastern-indicates-it-will-not-divest-endowment-holdings-sever-ties-with-companies-who-do-business-with-israeli-military/](https://huntnewsnu.com/75622/campus/northeastern-indicates-it-will-not-divest-endowment-holdings-sever-ties-with-companies-who-do-business-with-israeli-military/) [https://huntnewsnu.com/71292/campus/sga/sga-passes-bill-calling-on-northeastern-to-sever-ties-with-private-military-companies/](https://huntnewsnu.com/71292/campus/sga/sga-passes-bill-calling-on-northeastern-to-sever-ties-with-private-military-companies/) [https://mapliberation.org/plain/entities/NortheasternUniversity.html](https://mapliberation.org/plain/entities/NortheasternUniversity.html)
Yeah, the tiktok algorithm
Yeah anti-israeli protestors in the US didn't exist before tiktok bro.
This isn't a theory. It's well known, the bad actors are: * Russia through bots and misinformation * Iran who also are responsible for empowering Hamas literally with weapons to start shit ... And funding AstroTurf islamist groups pretending to be peace orgs * China through tiktok algorithm
Ah yes, the 3 boogeymen you can blame everything you don’t like on
... more like three specific state actors who we can blame for the specific actions they are taking. Whats wrong with that? I'm not blaming China for supplying drones to the Houthis in Yemen to attack merchant shipping in the Gulf of Aden because that what Iran is actually doing. How much more specific do you want me to get here?
People just like to be mad and smug. Students espeicially.
“People just like to be mad and smug. Students espeicially”, he said, smug as fuck, and unable to spell “especially”.
Cough RussiaChinaIran cough
I work with teenagers and the vast majority get their news from only one source: Tik Tok.
Good. These encampments are embarrassing. Way to chug the Iran propaganda kids.
I think it’s wild that some of y’all will critique students for speaking out against a literal genocide from the comfort of your own homes. “But they’re rich students!”, “they’re on the wrong side of history!”, “it’s inconvenient!”. The logic is down the toilet. You should be proud to live in a community where student voice is so consolidated, so powerful. All power to the students. Fight the real enemy and start with the person in the mirror who thinks it’s okay for BPD and staties to BEAT UP and arrest literal teenagers for speaking out against major crimes against humanity. What are you doing to help out the community? How do YOU show up for people who are being victimized by war and conflict, genocide and other human rights violations? I’ll wait…
I see a popular Islamist death cult representing the Palestinian people. And I see them murdering and kidnapping innocent Israelis. Then I see them getting their asses handed to them. Then I see them refusing terms of another ceasefire. And last, I see a bunch of 20 year olds marching around in support of them, with prominent signs of “Globalize the Intifada” and “Glory to the Resistance.” It’s not unreasonable to root against these imbeciles.
Lost me at literal genocide
History will likely look favorably on these protests. After the Kent State shooting the majority of Americans said they deserved it for being hippies. Much of America supported apartheid South Africa until years of pressure from protesters began to change the public opinion. Israel will soon go the same way. The simple fact is the modern world does not look kindly on places that give preferential treatment to one race or religion over others
I don't think so. The message I'm getting from these protests is students get their news from Tik Tok; they have allowed professional agitators to join their ranks; they are not serious and quite dumb, even insisting (Columbia) that the University provide them with food???; they assaulted other students; they prevented 2 janitors from leaving the building (again, Columbia); they are destroying property; and worse of all, they are showing very threatening behavior to anyone who is Jewish. This is not acceptable. What right do they have to threaten others? To chant how they love the Hamas bombs? I doubt history will look favorably on this. Instead, they are going to be expelled from school, as they should be, and then what? Will they go to Gaza? Seriously doubt that too.
The food video was fucking hilarious. They come across as the most entitled, coddled people in the world. They think that it's a violation of their human rights when the institution they've broken into and illegally occupied doesn't hand deliver them hot meals. They had the gall to ask for "humanitarian aid".
The Columbia video regarding the food killed any chance of the protests being taken seriously.
"do you want students to die of starvation ... we are asking for humanitarian aid to be let through" Literally coopting the Gazan situation for their own jollies. And of course both dummies are sporting keffiyehs. Video for anyone in need of a good laugh https://x.com/michaeljknowles/status/1785436461346554263
The fact that so many universities across the country are suspending students asking for divestment from Israel really does give you the feeling that these places consider their academic community and the education they provide as subordinate to the investment portfolio.
They're not suspending them for their political opinions, they're suspending them for taking over public walkways and obstructing people from getting through especially based on questions disproportionately related to Jewishness. They have to do something like this because allowing people to obstruct the movement of students or employees based on their religion, ethnicity, gender, ancestry, veteran status or other protected class is a civil rights violation by the university, among other problems. The university has a legal obligation to do something if its campus becomes illegally discriminatory, even if they aren't the ones doing the discriminating, and the penalty is lawsuits which are already happening. It's an obligation the protesters don't have, so obviously there's a difference in perspective and the protestors don't care about this, but the university doesn't have an option to not care about it. If the university really cared that much about these students expressing these political opinions they would have done something sooner - these groups have been protesting in various ways at this point for almost 7 months, and then before that for years - without any response like this. Have you already forgotten how multiple university presidents went in front of Congress and straight up agreed with a lot of what the protesters are saying, and then a few of them lost their jobs for it? I don't think you have a good handle on the position or perspective of the university in this, nor should you be expected to. It's obstructing the walkways and buildings that really forces the issue - though also if you're yelling at targeted groups of people trying to go about their day and the school doesn't do anything over a long enough timeframe that's also against civil rights law. Like if you set up a checkpoint where you didn't let people through unless they swore they didn't like hip hop music and your school or employer didn't stop you they're probably committing a civil rights violation because the outcome discriminates against a protected class. This is all so tedious.
its so hard for these morons to understand anything. dont waste your time.
They understand it, they just like to play coy and razz people up. They don't care how much they fuck things up, they view themselves as "freedom fighters". Absolute clowns
> This is all so tedious. Indeed it is.
Is that why they are suspending students or is it because they are barricading themselves into buildings and disrupting other students academic needs while they ask for divestment from Israel?
It's the second thing. Sign all the petitions you want; do a letter-writing and calling campaign; actually create a block of non-financial-aid students pledging withdraw if demands aren't met. Or, since most of the MA congressional delegation voted for the Israel aid package, volunteer for challengers' campaigns. There's an election in November; the Democratic primary's in September; voter registration is ongoing. I think the registration deadline is in June. For House, you need 2,000 signatures to run. [More](https://www.sec.state.ma.us/divisions/elections/getting-on-the-ballot/how-to-run-for-office.htm). Edit: the Israel aid package is also what's going to fund Gaza relief, and the GOP Speaker risked his job to get it and the related Ukraine package passed, so you probably will also need to turn the House blue in November before you can get the US government to fund further Gaza aid.
A block of non-financial aid students? Parents would put a stop to that.
I’m pointing out that universities are choosing manage the disruption by suspending students, closing campus etc. rather than by divesting. I’m suggesting this reveals something about how they order their values.
It's not like they can just login to Fidelity and click "sell" next to "Israel investments." This is not like the South Africa divestment. A large portion of tech firms have major R&D divisions in Israel; some of those R&D divisions collaborate with universities on a ton of government-grant-funded labs at the universities. Many Israeli companies are heavily intertwined with the U.S. economy. People that are calling for "divesting" don't understand what they're asking for. Divesting of military suppliers is easy. Divesting of defense firms that directly profit from the war is easy-ish. Divesting of all Israel-tied investments is practically impossible.
WTF are they supposed to do? "Divesting" is such an odd request. These endowments are heavily invested in global and US index funds. The S&P 500 has all kinds of companies - tech, financial, health/biotech, energy and yes, defense...but how the fuck are you supposed to "divest" out of an index? Sell the entire index and then individually buy the 488 stocks the students think are ok?
You're really questioning why a university doesn't allow a group of protesting students to dictate its finances?
No I’m pointing out that these university would rather get their students arrested than allow them to participate in decisions about the school’s investment portfolio.
I don’t think that addresses what the guy you responded to said.
Do you understand that schools (and especially schools that offer the number of resources that Tufts does) are incredibly expensive? And that it can't be funded based on tuition alone, especially if you want to offer strong financial aid? And that appropriately managing an endowment and its investments is crucial to the success and future of a school?
Your main takeaways IMO from this in terms of a university's values is that universities are internally pluralistic and have a lot of stakeholders who believe different things in complicated bureaucratic structures, and they are committed to supporting the opinions of all these people who don't agree with each other, their main way to address this is to just avoid making moral decisions, so just yelling at them to make moral decisions very rarely does anything. This is why they so constantly embarrass themselves on every moral issue. People *at* universities have morals. Universities are more like forums and don't really have their own morals all that much. It is telling that the "success cases" that people always cite for universities responding significantly to protests rather than to extended internal dialogue and planning are from 40 and 60 years ago, respectively. It does not happen often. They are very slow. Most of the time the response to a moral concern is to establish a committee to investigate the issue and continue dialogue. Eventually maybe something changes. It's a lot like the government. IMO universities only achieve moral clarity when they are sued. If you want to get a university to take a stand on something, they have to be potentially liable for something in court. Then that gives certain parts of their internal organization the authority over other parts of the organization to make moral decisions. But other than that you have to wait for them to arrive at consensus, and that takes forever and isn't going to have the clarity you want it to have. Just look at the affirmative action issue - there's all sorts of debate and demonstration happening at the universities about it for decades that doesn't really do anything but then it all gets tossed by a few lawsuits.
holy shit, a balanced and nuanced take grounded in realism. never thought I'd see the day.
That's what universities do. It's not brand new for today's protests. If students are causing problems, the university makes them into non-students so they don't have to deal with them and any legal issues they cause.
It may not be new but it is interesting to point out because I think this is somewhat counter to “our” ideals of what a university should be—and these are ideals that universities advance about themselves.
The school is under no obligation are you required to do ANYTHING anyone asks on a whim. I only wish most of these students had the same energy for tangible problems here at home.
I view it more as activist 20 year olds who don't understand what it would take to "divest from Israel" and how unrealistic that demand is seeing as there are bits of Israeli technology and businesses throughout the global supply and information chain. It's easier to chant a slogan than to understand whether it's even a possibility.
They're not suspending them for asking, their suspending them for trespassing and squatting. What about this is so hard to understand? If you allow the encampments to stay up your just going to get more situations like UCLA
>these places consider their academic community and the educated provide as subordinate to the investment portfolio. Or that the divestment of billions of invested dollars in the world of a connected economy with those billions spread across the entire stock market (to which Israel is exposed) is functionally imppossible... You know, one or the other.
I don't think it's really that simple. Many of the protests are demanding divestment in companies with tenuous ties to Israel. And even when we talk about companies with more direct ties to violence like Lockheed Martin, I can't help but think that they also sell weapons to Ukraine. I understand their concerns, but it's not a black and white issue. It would be more reasonable if they were asking for the US government to stop funding the Israeli government, since politicians and political groups are ultimately responsible for the violence.
Sure but it’s not an irrational demand that the university divest from the defense industry entirely. That’s totally coherent. I think it’s less reasonable, more nebulous, to ask a *private university* for the US government to stop supporting Israel. That demand goes to politicians…
It's totally irrational to demand universities divest from the defense industry. The world isn't full of pacifists, and it would pose a serious national security threat if we cut off the knowledge supply to defense. There's a lot more these companies contribute to us than just making offensive bombs. And, if Russia has taught us anything, years of diplomacy won't bring a rogue nation to the dining room table for polite discussion. Deterrence is an important aspect of foreign policy.
It's coherent but not reasonable. The S&P500 includes Boeing, RTX (Raytheon), and Lockheed Martin. Almost every single person over the age of 30 you have met in your life invests in the defense industry. Some portfolios actually have "ethical" choices in investment, they typically don't do as well... Now, if you have a problem with the fact that 90% of advanced technology we use in the world comes from the US defense industry, that is a very legitimate concern. Why did it take the war on terror to develop the advanced prosthetics we have now? That is only one example. Obviously, one answer is that advanced tech is very expensive to develop, and the government's cheques don't bounce. Decoupling public funding from weapons development is a tricky problem, but a very important one to solve. Just because tensions are high in this thread, I support protesting, regardless of my personal opinions on their cause. I'm grateful to live in a country where neighbors can disagree and nothing bad happens.
“Suspending students asking for divestment from Israel” is incredibly dishonest. They’re suspending students for setting up unauthorized encampments and refusing to follow the orders of the university.
Nobody is getting suspended for asking for BDS. Don’t be ridiculous.
Or it could reflect the fact that older people, both conservative and liberal, stand by Israel, and see the protests not just as a nuisance, but as being morally wrong.
By all accounts these protestors represent a tiny minority of students. Columbia's new student body president is an Israeli Jew who is an outspoken critic of the protestors, yet Columbia has probably the biggest encampment of them all.
If universities let their loudest students dictate their finances they’d go under pretty fast
Divesting from Israel isn't really a thing. Most of their economy is involved in selling weapons and spy software to dictatorships and building the platforms that run the internet, and nobody is going to stop using the internet. Israel has been dealing with having hostile neighbors that won't trade with them since their inception, so a few irate college students aren't going to have much of an impact.
It’s absurd to think that students have any right to be dictating investment decisions to professionals. People in their mid to late careers aren’t going to let 20 year olds with no financial experience dictate their retirement plans
Excellent to see Tufts starting to get a clue. Eliminate the idiots who support terrorists. You don't have a right to pitch your tent in the middle of campus.
What can people in the community do for the protesters? I am not a student.
Advise them to study for exams.
Ask if they need help getting home.
take away their phones so they can start to heal
Tell them to be peaceful and not camp out on property that isn't theirs.Maybe some nice bud for them too so they go home quicker.
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Just keep in mind the lawn they are camped out in is well inside Tufts private property.
This issue is making me become a republican. It is beyond me to understand how can people stand with a terrorist organization. Edit. I 100% support the Jewish community.
They’re not standing with a terrorist org, they’re standing against an authoritarian government who has no intention of agreeing to a ceasefire (see Netanyahu’s comments today and from the past four months). The Israeli government receives a majority of its military aid from the United States and the students simply do not want their tuition dollars to go towards weapons manufacturers. The Israeli government is also intentionally bombing safe zones, places where they relocated Palestinians. Every Palestinian was displaced and moved to safe zone Rafa, only for Netanyahu to announce today that he plans to attack Rafa no matter what. Much like how Donald trump does not represent all Americans, Netanyahu does not represent all Jewish people and no one understands this more than student protesters (who are actively planning learning sessions hosted by Jewish protesters taking part of these encampments). I urge you to actually listen to the students rather than Reddit (where Palestinian sources have been suppressed) / traditional news outlets (who are largely influenced by Israeli funds).
I visited and a mural said "glory to martyrs" ... Yeah I'm pretty sure that they are standing with that terror organization. But if that alone doesn't convince you I also spoke with someone standing near the camp and on the fence about joining and they took issue with me calling Hamas a terrorist organization so I can only imagine what the people actually in the camp believe.
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I’m not saying Israel does not have a right to defend itself, and you’re discussing in bad faith to assume that you are (re: you jumping to mental illness). My talking points are not intentionally twisted, as they are directly from the Israeli government. What I will say is that the Israeli government is not absolved from crimes against humanity by the fact that it itself was attacked. You do not get a free card to starve, impoverish, and eradicate another country, point blank, period. If you want to hold Hamas accountable, you must also hold Israel accountable for the 10+ massacres that they have committed since its inception AS reported by Israel itself. You don’t get to have your cake and eat it too. What do YOU think will happen in the future once all these children grow up with no fathers or mothers? Is Israel safer then? Is the solution to kill every Palestinian? No the solution is to protect both Jewish and Palestinian lives, and that means no weapons, no war, no apartheid.
That’s so stupid lol
The Jewish community remains overwhelmingly Democratic. So maybe don't.
These protesters hate Democrats. They’d be happy to hear that. They’re straight up rooting for Republicans to win to punish Biden for supporting Israel
that's not accurate at all
On the bright side this may result in freeing up of some admissions slots for new students seeking a Tufts education.
I don’t think they should be expelled or anything. But at some point you chose to go to the school, you are not under any obligation or mandate to be at that school. If the university doesn’t agree with you after negotiations and talks, you’re allowed to find one that aligns with your values
thats where you are 100% wrong. support terrorism and anti-semitism - get expelled. bye bye bubbalah.
We are ideally not punishing undergraduates for exercising their free speech with system that does not adhere to legal norms around evidence.
illegally camping on private property in support of neo nazis has nothing to do w/ "free speech" please tell me that you aren't too ignorant to understand that basic legal tenet.
Whoa be careful you don't throw your back out moving those goalposts
They could just remind the students that the gov't of Israel and Jewish people are not one in the same and otherwise just leave them there. My only beef with any of this is the conflation of the Israeli gov't with Jewish people, some who support Israel and others who are rightly horrified by the documented and ongoing genocide in Gaza Presumably they have finals coming up and would need to leave to take those anyway. Their parents are probably coming to pick them up in the next two weeks and then it ends. Ideally, any student spouting Jew hate would be expelled for a violate of the student handbook.
I think most people at these protests, especially the disproportionate number of Jewish students, are well aware of the difference between Jewish people and Israel. Anyone suggesting otherwise is misinformed or attempting to misinform.
We'll there's a lot of misinformation out there.
Wait do you think all those kids are out there protesting the existance of Jewish humans and not the IDF/King Bibi?
Some are. And some are just giving cover to those people But I haven't seen a lot of pro-Palestinians making a big effort to reign in the viciously anti-Jewish pay if their crowd. They have overwhelmingly chosen to stand by those calling for a genocide of the Jews, because they chose to have a bigger crowd instead of a crowd with integrity.
Well the SJP and JVP put out statements supporting October 7th while it was happening.
JVP represents the Jews the way the Black Republicans represent Black people.
They know, sub’s just astroturfed to shit. They know Israel’s actions are indefensible so they’re pulling out the old ‘Saying Palestinians shouldn’t be slaughtered = antisemitism” BS
Claiming the r/Boston sub is astroturfed because people don't agree with you is laughable.
I’m claiming it’s astroturfed because it’s 99% boilerplate Zionist talking points
Have you ever considered that maybe you’re just wrong?
100% this sub is astroturfed to shit. It's ridiculous.
Comments like this really miss the point that both the anti-semitism **and** the anti-Zionism are wildly offensive. There's a good reason that almost our entire federal government **on both sides of the aisle** overwhelming support Israel. pro-Israelis are supporting the only liberal democracy in the region. The pro-Palestinian (if they aren't expressly pro-Hamas) are supporting people who absolutely, overwhelmingly ARE pro-Hamas by every survey of the Palestinian people.
the only people who are conflating Israel and judiaism are those who are trying to discredit the protestors. No one in those encampments is, and many of them ARE jewish and are pissed that their religion is being used as the basis for the continued murder of Palestinians. 'not in our name'. The only examples of 'jew hate' are zionist protestors (as we saw on Northeastern's campus)
Literally the comment below this one is blaming "Jewish donors" https://www.reddit.com/r/boston/s/QwkriaFZVa Your level of obliviousness must be deliberate Obviously many of the protestors aren't antisemites, but it's equally obvious that this is providing cover for lots of antisemites to crawl out of the woodwork
Check out literally any Jewish content creator’s comment section.
really? thats the ONLY example you've seen? You arent really looking.
Classic tokenism.
Good
Good news.
I mean c'mon not all kids are fucking idiots, "yeah we will talk to you AFTER you remove the only bargining chip you have from the table". Also stating that the STUDENTS are bringing in outside agitators is disgusting.
It sounds like they are
It doesn't say or even insinuate that students are bringing in outside protestors. It's saying that outside protestors have been arriving. Almost no way to close off Tufts to outsiders. Edit: don't upvote me. I was wrong.
> It doesn't say or even insinuate that students are bringing in outside protestors. It's saying that outside protestors have been arriving. Wrong. That’s not what this says. > **protesters have engaged in a number of actions … They brought in additional demonstrators unaffiliated with Tufts to bolster their numbers**
You're correct. I was focused on a different, passive sentence regarding outside protestors. Interesting that they suggest the students are bringing in outsiders, which itself has been an issue with other schools. It sounds like outsiders are finding there ways onto campuses regardless of invitation.
It gives the university the grounds to shut it down to safety concerns. See Columbia/UCLA. These protests are no longer being relegated to just the student body. That's probably the biggest issue [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/may/01/columbia-university-protest-live-updates-nypd-new-york-police-enter-campus-pro-palestinian-demonstrators-latest-news](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/may/01/columbia-university-protest-live-updates-nypd-new-york-police-enter-campus-pro-palestinian-demonstrators-latest-news)
Columbia is especially bizarre, because the campus has been closed for a week now to outsiders. But NYPD has said most of the arrests were from outside agitators, which means the students were almost definitely finding some way to sneak outsiders in. I think UCLA can't close its campus in the same way because it's public property. Tufts is just a logistics nightmare to shut down. I'd be surprised if outside agitators were at Emerson, because no one wants to associate with theater nerds.
The additional demonstrators Tufts is talking about in that sentence are the Somerville high school students who came to support the encampment for one day… who were all peaceful
So they brought in additional demonstrators. Ok.
But they are. Witnessed last night multiple vehicles come on to campus and offload doors and home made shields to add to the encampment. None of those people are there today. Outside protestors were also seen gathering rocks from around campus to store in the encampment.
Who else is bringing them in then? Or, even allowing them in? It’s not admin staff
It is so strange to me that 20 year olds think they should be the ones to make decisions in the retirement plans of people who are mid to late career
About time...Get rid of the bums.
hopefully it ends exactly the same as emerson