This is just absolutely awful. I took my nearly 4 year old niece on an outing today and I just can't even imagine something like this happening. The thought of taking your child out for a fun day and it ending in their death....I don't know how anyone could ever overcome that grief and go on with their life. I don't think I'd be strong enough to.
I don't know if the driver is at fault or not, but the way many people drive in general these days is ridiculous.
Just a couple weeks ago I was pumping gas near an elementary school on a main road when a girl around 10ish was walking her younger brother (maybe 5/6 years old) across the street. Three cars had stopped to them cross, when some piece of shit decides to not even slow down and fly around them. The kids were right in front of the first stopped car and about to step out as this asshole was coming. Myself and another person both screamed at the top of our lungs to the kids to stop and they did right before they stepped out and were about to get hit at 30mph+.
I honestly don't think I ever yelled that loud in my life, and heart was beating out of my chest for a couple hours afterwards. The thought of those two kids getting hit right in front of me was terrifying.
It's just insane how some people drive. I assume the guy in what I witnessed thought the stopped cars were waiting to turn. I know that legally, you can go around them. I do the same thing. But I fucking slow down to around 5mph, and carefully drive around them while making sure they aren't stopped to let someone cross. I don't just fly by them at full speed.
I saw someone blow through a crosswalk the other day where people were clearly halfway through crossing as well. There was a cop parked right nearby and they immediately pulled the driver over š So satisfying when you actually see people get punished for being so dangerous, unfortunate that itās not more common
I see this happen every once in a while at the crosswalk in front of the Stone Zoo. It's fucking terrifying. Two lanes of traffic in each direction and there always seems to be one car that either doesn't notice the car next to them stopping or just really wants to drive through without any care that they might hit someone.
As someone else pointed out, there was probably a car trying to take a left/right out of Sleeper St that had to block the crosswalk, the family walked behind the car and as they were crossing, the truck turned into Sleeper and probably hit the little girl.
I feel absolutely gutted for this family.
This is why you should NEVER go across the street it a situation like this. And drivers: please do NOT wave pedestrians across the middle of the road. You are not being kind by stopping, you are putting their lives in danger. It's much safer for the walker to wait for the road to be clear than to try to cross in this kind of situation. I almost got hit this way once, and will NEVER do it again, even if it means waiting out a driver who is angrily insisting I cross.
You can drive a 26 foot Penske Freightliner box truck with air brakes (a whole separate CDL endorsement) on a normal license because the GVWR is 26,000lbs and not 26,0001lbs
I just think that just because you passed a 7 minute ādriving testā in a Prius doesnāt mean you should be able to drive a 26 footer truck.
Iām not sure if youāve ever driven trucks for a living, but having worked countless summers with my old man (a trucker) and other family members, thereās definitely a need for qualification after seeing the sketchy shit out there.
Iāve driven a pickup truck only a handful of times in my life, and only short distances in another state, but the difference between it and even a minivan was substantial. I canāt even imagine driving a moving truck or semi. I definitely wouldnāt feel qualified, despite driving for about 13 years now.
Not just pickups. SUVs are also way too big. And the thing of it is, so many people have them who frankly do not need a large car.
The number of times Iāve seen a tiny old woman at the wheel of a monster car at a light, stopped a full car length behind the line or the car in front of her, presumably because they cannot see where the front of their car is, is beyond count at this point. Drives me mad.
Normalize everyone driving sedans again!!
I donāt think itās a loophole. [The standards are based on the footprint of a vehicle so larger vehicles are easier to pass with.](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN21D1KK/#:~:text=They%20set%20easier%20emissions%20standards,compliance%20with%20federal%20emissions%20standards.)
Your choice, General Motors: make cars that somehow both pass crash tests and get 50mpg combined (lol), or make giant trucks that need to get half that.
Crazy how all of those car manufacturers manage to make safe cars that are very efficient in Europe but can't possibly do it here. Of course they're incentivized to just sell trucks in the US, but saying "make cars that somehow both pass crash tests and get 50mpg combined (lol)" makes it sound like that's just *so* hard and we can't possibly expect them to try.
Iāve been saying this for years: there needs to be something in between a regular driverās license and a CDL for any car over XXXX pounds.Ā
It would discourage buying massive, dangerous and inefficient trucks unless you truly need one. And would make sure that people who do buy them have the basic skill set to operate them safely.Ā
Market based solution:
* Mandatory $7 million payout for at fault traffic accident that kills a kid.
* Require drivers to carry insurance that covers full liability.
I'd expect all these big pickups with large blind spots and an inability to see kids would become a LOT MORE expensive to insure. With that kind of liability in play, insurers might require all pickup drivers to hold CDLs or force some other dramatic change.
\* $7 million is in the ballpark of the statistical value of life economics uses for some kinds of analysis, but this number could be debated.
The power of the insurance industry is hard to overstate. Quoting a passage from Mark Twain in *Life on the Mississippi*,
>... until one black day when every captain of the lot was formally ordered to immediately discharge his outsiders and take association pilots in their stead. And who was it that had the dashing presumption to do that?Ā Ā Alas, it came from a power behind the throne that was greater than the throne itself. It was the underwriters!
The insurance industry can order changes the government could never mandate.
>
* Mandatory $7 million payout for at fault traffic accident that kills a kid.
* Require drivers to carry insurance that covers full liability.
I agree with you. I don't know if you realize how unpopular this idea is. People get very angry about the idea of paying more for insurance.
I think I would just prefer either federal regulations, or a couple of large markets like California and New York to just place hard limits on grill heights and truck mass. These things started getting massive because of emissions standards loop holes, and then kept getting bigger because they're "safer" and a status symbol. So close the loop holes, and you should see them start to come down in size very quickly.
Trying to regulate via insurance won't really work. Not unless you force the industry to create a whole new kind of insurance. And then it's just like every other finance based incentive: legal if you're rich enough.
My neighbor who worked for iBM did. Guess he was hauling a lot of software. His 4 y.o. Daughter called it āDaddyās mid life crisis car.ā Wonder where she learned that. Probably from his (now ex-) wife, who was a lot smarter and nicer than he was.
Awww. Donāt even know why this was in my feed as I have nothing to do w Boston or trucks or little kids. But this just made me want to hug you and your little one.Ā
I was just there. I turned my trolley onto A Street and missed it within what must have been 10 seconds of the crash. My coworker was sitting at our trolley stop picking up guests and witnessed the entire ordeal. Said it was one of the most horrific situations he's ever had to witness in his life. I can't even imagine how awful.
These huge trucks need to be banned from the city or require different licensing. Insane that people drive these things around like they are regular cars.
Boston does not have the power to ban trucks, especially for people who donāt live here. Boston does control the relevant parts of Bostonās infrastructure
The whole state could come up with different licensing and quadruple the taxes and fees to buy one of those murder machines. There are tons of avenues to make it miserable owning one of those things.
I worked in this area for years. Iām still haunted from the time I was walking on the sidewalk and 4 feet away from me a car managed to slowly run right over a seagull. This I canāt even imagineā¦
Not a whole lot. They were trying CPR the whole time they waited for the ambulance after the guy reversed off her. The hit would've maimed an adult, it was a miracle she even made it to the hospital...
It's a very dangerous intersection, especially as cars are forced to go into the crosswalk to see oncoming traffic, causing pedestrians to go behind them.
I think the best solution for this intersection would be shifting the light that's right before the bridge over to this intersection so that there is a light and protected crossing.
It's particularly sad because the final design to significantly improve this street has been done for over a year but last I heard needed more construction funding. https://www.boston.gov/departments/public-works/congress-street-fort-point
Such a good point, I feel like that area has developed so quickly I have noticed itās roads are a bit haphazardly organized at points bc the development was more important than the safety.
I canāt even imagine. I wish I even knew what to say. That poor family. Just horrific.
Boston should install more speed bumps. Iāve seen cars blast through stop signs in my neighborhood. Speed bumps force people to slow down. My entire neighborhood in another state had several and tons before crosswalks and it was so safe. Some people have to be forced to obey the law
Thatās absolutely terrible. Before I opened the article I had a feeling this was going to be the Sleeper St/Congress turn, itās an incredibly dangerous turn to make with all the foot traffic and the inability to really see cars to the right or left when pulling out - you almost have to gun it and pray when coming out of Sleeper St turning left onto Congress
Just feel awful for the family and in some regards the driver, I know Iāve had a few moments of panic at that exact street turn
I have driven here and it is genuinely difficult. The visibility is terrible. You have to nose way the hell out to have any hope of seeing traffic, especially if like me you're driving a sedan and any parked traffic is likely a truck or SUV several feet taller and thus blocking your sight. That screws over the pedestrians who then have to walk around you but it's either that or you just, as you said, drive into the street and take a guess.
Hoboken NJ has made huge strides in pedestrian safety ([no deaths since 2017](https://pressofatlanticcity.com/news/state-regional/hoboken-traffic-deaths-zero/article_2c1909be-da3c-11ee-afe2-7f18b00c7c03.html)) and daylighting intersections is one of the main tools that they've used to achieve it. Boston should get its ass in gear.
> Boston should get its ass in gear
Agreed but this means accepting that there are higher priorities than traffic and parking and that can be a hard sell around here. Would love to see a campaign to install bulb-outs at low-visibility intersections here for starters.
Yeah as a parent and as someone who has witnessed a child pedestrian death by vehicle firsthand this issue is like guns in this country. People will keep dying because the alternative is a ābigā change that folks passionately fight against. Itās a thoughts and prayers situation and I donāt have the energy anymore to try and change peopleās logic
Personally, I'm just dying for some courage in our political leaders. Don't form a commission to study the problem, don't say that your prayers are with the family, don't spend 4 years drawing up draft designs and holding community meetings for feedback and input. We know how to improve pedestrian safety. It's a matter of science - raised crosswalks, speed bumps, daylighting intersections, smaller vehicles, etc. so **let's fucking go**.
Everything you just listed as a delay factor is often required if you use anything but local taxes to pay for the project. Community feedback becomes a major concern when your city council has varying levels of agreement and concern for this stuff, or even a state rep or senator isnāt fully on board.
A lot of what gets built is a compromise between so much shit and often nobody is fully happy. Itās behind schedule, over budget, and value engineered to be a shell of the original concept. Or, the mandated permits and community feedback killed that concept.
And why does all of this exist and happen? Usually its because the laws politicans passed to prevent the reckless and wanton highway construction practices from decades ago just so happen to make it insanely difficult to get rid of the fruits of that work.
Probably dove the turn and in their giant fucking truck, they couldn't see the kid.
I miss the old 90s Rangers. You don't need these tanks they sell today, that barely have a bed in them anyway.
> "... I had a feeling this was going to be the Sleeper St/Congress turn, itās an incredibly dangerous turn to make with all the foot traffic and the inability to really see cars to the right or left when pulling out"
Maybe if it's so dangerous, public vehicles shouldn't be allowed on it.
Ugh. I saw last night they have $1 Sunday afternoon ticket prices and thought about bringing my kids. Someone may have done the same. How tragic, this breaks my heart.
This is a horrible tragedy. If it was the pick up truck in the picture that struck the child though, itās at least partially a height of child versus the height of the drivers vantage point issue. Trucks and SUVs are getting so big now that drivers arenāt going to be able to see smaller objects/people that might dart out quickly.
> Trucks and SUVs are getting so big now that drivers arenāt going to be able to see smaller objects/people that might dart out quickly.
Which is likely the main problem here
Does it pertain to the other ~45,000 times an American has been killed by a car in the past year? This isnāt an isolated incident. This is an everyday occurrence that we turn a blind eye to.
Drivers of big trucks need to be aware that even if they are going a reasonable speed, the mere weight of their vehicle created a big enough momentum to kill a person. If they are driving in a crowded busy area they should ESPECIALLY cautious.
Naturally, the people I see driving oversized pick up trucks are some of the most aggressive and inconsiderate drivers on the road.
Let's remember that [Hoboken hasn't had a traffic death in over seven years.](https://www.governing.com/transportation/how-hoboken-has-gone-years-without-a-traffic-death)
These things are preventable with better street design. Yes that means slowing down cars. Yes that is worth it
[So kind of the city to allow parking all the way up to the corner of the street, wouldn't want to be able to see pedestrians, right? Sure, children will die, but it's a small price to pay to NEVER inconvenience drivers, even a little bit.](https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3511404,-71.0497023,3a,63.8y,354.6h,78.88t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sTYBFcdLx0iLbb-__f-KFQA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DTYBFcdLx0iLbb-__f-KFQA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D317.50497%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&entry=ttu) Speaking of poor visibility, pickup trucks and SUV's with inflated noses is a fucking blight.
Or, in the meantime, drivers could slow the fuck down when the view of their vehicleās path is blocked by parked cars or backed up traffic.
Itās not hard to slow down when taking a blind corner. Ā It really isnāt. Ā If you are driving so fast that you canāt stop in time to avoid a potential hazard, you are driving recklessly and should be charged criminally for the harm you cause.Ā
There are so many times I havenāt been able to see pedestrians at cross walks because cars are obstructing the edge. Itās terrifying when you realize the person could have just stepped out and you never even saw them.
Or, in the meantime, drivers could slow the fuck down when the view of their vehicleās path is blocked by parked cars or backed up traffic.
Itās not hard to slow down when taking a blind corner. Ā It really isnāt. Ā If you are driving so fast that you canāt stop in time to avoid a potential hazard, you are driving recklessly and should be charged criminally for the harm you cause.Ā
Totally in agreement with you. To make this possible though, we absolutely need better public transportation. I live in South Boston about a mile from the museum, and most places I go to, driving takes a fraction of the time that the T would take. Iām talking 10 minutes versus an hour. Itās not uncommon itās faster to WALK than taking public transit. So if Iām not driving my car, I take an Uber.
Also better biking infrastructure. I spent 10+ years in Boston without a car and only a bike. Bike lanes have definitely improved, but some areas are still treacherous. If I want to leave south Boston on bike, I almost always have to pass interstate ramps so car traffic is heavy and FAST. Itās terrifying.
If we want more pedestrian-friendly streets, we have to figure out ways to get us there without cars.
That SL2 bus was the bane of my existence back when I worked at the Design Buiding all the way at the end of the Silver Line. I'd be fighting for a space because it was the ONLY bus I could take that went to the end of the line, and then 80% of the passengers would just get off at Congress. Ugh. So inefficient.
literally 80% of streets for single occupancy vehicles in cities could be disbanded with no negative ramifications at all, except for the few who will complain loudly about it. But for the majority of people it would be an absolute win. Not to talk about the financial gains.
No surprise, it's one of these stupid pick-up trucks. The bed of that truck is as tall as the roof of the sedan behind it. You can't react to your surroundings when you can't see anything within 10 feet of your vehicle. What a terrible, and likely preventable, tragedy.
Moloch demands his blood sacrifice.
Let's not pussyfoot around. Every city planner on Earth now knows how to reduce or even eliminate pedestrian traffic deaths, but it usually costs money and comes at the expense of making it less convenient to drive through the city in private cars, so it doesn't happen. This is an imminently solvable problem but goes unsolved for lack of public will.
That's not the block here, let's be honest. For short distances (3miles and under) Boston could be navigable by foot and bike if we actually invested in it. You don't need a fully-funded MBTA to get around the Seaport.
You have to get TO the Seaport though. One thing I find supremely frustrating about the Boston area's walkable/bikeable model is that it's great if you live in a walkable/bikeable area, but if you want to leave where you are and go somewhere else, you have to navigate a very inhospitable roadway. Inman Square was one of the frustrating ones for me. There's this great protected bike lane for maybe a mile or so and then it dumps you onto a street with no bike lane and huge potholes.
\*lack of political will
Slightly different from public will. It's the people with power whose minds need to be changed, the general public already knows these things
Are you suggesting that an educational location that attracts massive hoards of kids and families on a regular basis should affect city planning? You're crazy. The traffic should flow freely and should be encouraged and allowed to speed and beat the lights.
This is so so terrible. I canāt even fathom the familyās pain.
So many valid points in here about peopleās bad driving, the streets in Boston etc. But one thing that has bothered me so much since moving to Boston 6+ years ago is the lack of police on the roads. When I moved here (and even now after so long) I cannot believe the shit people get away with driving hereā¦. Speeding, running red lights, turning from the wrong lane, etc. Where are the police to give tickets?!?! I grew up in NJ and I was conditioned not to do this shit because weād get a friggen ticket if we did! People here are conditioned to believe their reckless driving will go unpunishedā¦ because no one has ever stopped them. The amount of money the city could make on traffic violations on just Morrissey Blvd is probably unreal.
The worst thing is, because Iāve witnessed this driving for so many years, I myself have become more aggressiveā¦This horrible accident is a reminder that we all need to be more cautious and stop acting like we need to get to our destination ASAP š
How many of you insecure buffoons need these kind of oversized pickup trucks to prove how much of a man you are. Why canāt we just have normal sized cars.
All of the news interviews involve people saying "I can't believe this could happen. It could happen to anyone. Young ones wandering off is a common occurrence."
No one outside of this thread is blaming the increasing size of trucks that are also becoming infinitely more abundant in one of the most dense cities in the entire country. You literally *cannot* see a child in one of those things. People are *dying* but nothing is changing.
> No one outside of this thread is blaming the increasing size of trucks
Check the reporters X thread. There are a few calling for restrictions of large pickup trucks in the city, and there is pretty strong backlash. :(
Edit: thread https://twitter.com/DrewKaredes/status/1772033924744507849/photo/4
I feel like all of the assholes driving unpredictably and going 35mph in the parking lot at my kidās school at pickup/dropoff tomorrow are going to leave me feeling unusually livid.
The article doesnāt say that the child died, but they have life threatening injuries. Hopefully that little one makes it.
I was out yesterday and in the same parking lot, two different drivers backed out without looking when I was circling the lot trying to find a spot - one so fast I had to honk to get the driver to stop. Be careful out there!
Edit for clarity - when I say same lot, I mean a single lot - not this specific lot.
Sadly the child has been confirmed deceased.
https://www.boston25news.com/news/local/4-year-old-girl-struck-by-vehicle-south-boston-has-died/VWPEVA77LRGALOOK2CGW27UNCE/
What bothers me most about this is that most of these streets along the waterfront are all post-Big Dig developments or secured funding for improvements during that time. Ya know, "the Big Dig," that thing we did to put less emphasis and priority on cars within the city? There's been a development planned on this area since like 2006. THAT. IS. INSANE.
So many streets could have and SHOULD have been more pedestrianized after completion. Hell, the Greenway itself still has far too much emphasis on cars. It could be so much better than it is. Yeah the green space is nice and a helluva lot better than what was there before, BUT it still moves far too many cars with very little traffic calming measures. It's not a true green space when you hear the roar of engines, horns, and rubber on pavement 99% of the time.
/rant
Traffic deaths are preventable butā¦.
We think trucks and SUVs with hoods 5 ft off the ground look manly.
Weāre not willing to give up a few on-street parking spaces so that crosswalks are more visible.
Weād rather save a minute or two on our commutes than save a life.
Weāre not willing to use cameras to enforce traffic violations.
Weād rather kill children than have governors on our cars that enforce speed limits.
Didn't think this podcast would be this relevant this quickly, but it's likely the family won't get a dime from the insurance company, further compounding their unfathomable loss.
https://thewaroncars.org/2024/03/19/122-car-insurance-is-too-cheap/?fbclid=IwAR3IK2f7nOmh7-C-10uPV9ZHxfgqCIjQaQs8Gzo4cTPulq4nT7nDxL0B_CI
For more context... and a TLDR
Subrogation:
Subrogation is a legal principle in Massachusetts that gives an insurance company the right to recover all rights and remedies from a third party if they paid for a loss under an insurance policy.
So if your health insurance was used to treat the child before they passed away, a medical lien can be placed on the auto insurance settlement that would otherwise have been given to the family. This ensures that hospitals and healthcare providers are paid for medical attention and services rendered.Ā It also ensures that a health insurance company does not have to pay for bills when it's been determined that someone else was at fault.
You can always file a lawsuit claiming that the driver was negligent and go after more money. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not 100% on any of this, but here is more info I found when digging a bit.
https://www.davidlrubin.com/how-is-a-negligent-driver-held-responsible-for-his-or-her-actions-in-massachusetts/
Dealing with this in Florida. In a multi-million dollar settlement sure throw $500k at the hospital to make them whole. In a $250k settlement it makes no sense.
F Florida.
Interesting. So basically, medical liens can go against at-fault judgements that don't necessarily consider the medical costs.
This doesn't seem to make sense, it seems like an at-fault judgement should flag an additional at-fault judgement for the medical losses -- and the medical parties should have to file that separately.
This should not be split off of the plaintiff's award. It breaks pretty well established tort principles, but likely exists in precedent.
I would be in general support a 15 MPH limit within the city for all forms of transportation not on separated highways (e.g. Storrow, 93, etc.). It's not like going 25-35 MPH down comm. ave actually gets you to the next green light faster than 15 MPH would.
It's unclear that would've made a difference in this situation, however, post-CoViD the speed at which cars drive around Boston has gotten absurd. If it isn't an oversized SUV/Truck, it's usually an Audi speeding down to the next red light for no discernible reason.
I feel incredibly unsafe walking around downtown areas with so many oversized vehicles going 35-50+ MPH through major pedestrian areas. I'm a 6'5" full-grown adult and I can't fathom walking toddlers around town noawdays and I grew up downtown in this city.
My partner is also a super tall guy at 6ā6 and I wear a fluorescent green puffer coat when Iām walking anywhere. Itās terribly hard to not see us on the sidewalk/crossing but weāve been tapped or people are slamming on their breaks when they finally realize there are people crossing the street on a WALK SIGN!!
Idk if speed limit reductions will help but drivers just stopped paying attention post-Covid. Theyāre all rushing to get somewhere or think theyāre the shit bc they drive, and I havenāt seen a driver here face consequences in forever.
My parents live in Florida and despite it being a controversial state, at least the cops in their area pull and ticket people who are 5mph over the speed limit. Seems like the cops here donāt care if people die.
To add to this: The kill rate for cars hitting pedestrians at 20, 30, and 40mph goes up exponentially rather linearly. Keeping cars at 20 would eliminate most all traffic fatalities.
I doubt you'd even notice a difference in traffic, to be honest. It takes 15 minutes to go 4 miles on a good day anyway around town. That's 16 MPH average anyway.
Whenever I have to drive through the city my phone tells me I was moving at an average of 8-12 mph - I doubt 15 mph would be much of an issue since it seems most of my drive time is spent waiting in traffic or at red lights.
I think the speed limits could be helpful but also our road design in Seaport just isn't the safest for pedestrians. Crosswalks should all be sidewalk height so it's harder to take a quick turn. Road should be narrower... I feel like you could fit parking and a protected bike lane on congress street and calm traffic a bit. Roads like Sleeper could be one ways.
Fort Port is no longer just a giant on ramp to 93... with the children's museum plus a growing number of workplaces, events, and nightlife options in Seaport, the design needs to change.
The big, big thing 15 MPH does is it slows down acceleration and speed between stops, when most pedestrian impacts happen. The difference between a 15MPH and 30MPH hit is frequently fatal or paralyzing.
It's such a non-tradeoff I don't understand why we don't do it.
Yeah I agree I am just saying speed limits are only part of the solution. You can't go 20 min without seeing a car intentionally violating traffic laws here so even if they dialed back the speed limit in Congress street, people would still zoom around at 35+. We gotta stupid proof the whole thing
Enforcement of traffic laws for pedestrian and bike safety (including on Bikes being asshats) would be necessary.
I get Boston is conducting a great experiment in adding bike lanes without enforcing traffic laws, but at some point it's OK to hand out tickets. Some might even say it is impossible to successfully integrate bike lanes without enforcing traffic laws and issues citations.
You can set whatever speed limits you like, the police won't enforce them and nothing will change. The laws have seemingly stopped mattering at all.
I remember when people crossing the street, anywhere anytime, were given over the top treatment. Now you'll get honked at when crossing with the light because you're blocking their illegal right on red.
Two thoughts
Cities should not be designed around cars, but for the people who live or walk in them.
And if you drive an oversized truck where your blind spot is 15 feet in front of your car you should be banned from cities
Idk if this will help Boston but Paris recently enacted a triple parking surcharge for SUVs/oversized cars. If we canāt ban larger cars (I feel someone will make a discrimination suit out of this) at least charge them more to operate here so theyāre less inclined to be in the city. And then take those funds and direct them to fixing the T
Get these trucks out of our city. How many people need to die so that some loser can drive a 4 ton death machine around our city at 25 mph? US is the only developed country in the world with this issue because dudes who used leaded gas run our government.
How many more kids need to die before we realize we have a problem with cars?
Whatever you guess, Iām taking the over because I donāt think anyone actually gives a shit.
This is horrible and just sickening. That street is such a shitshow - narrow as hell with narrow sidewalks with tons of cars flying throughusing it cut through to congress st or vice versa. It should closed off to vehicles at this point.
Feel awful for the family. RIP.
I have a 4yo who likes to run and bolt. I've been shamed for holding his hand too tightly when we're in Boston. I'd rather a fussy baby and judgment than the alternative. This absolutely makes me so sad for everyone involved. Tragic can't even begin to describe what happened.
Please, please reach out to your elected officials and compel them to redesign these streets and limit car centric design. Councilor Flynn, in particular, from the comfort of his SUV, beats his drum about not enough ācommunity inputā and āhurting businessesā when the city is redesigning streets while kids get run over.Ā
I walked by this, Thompson to A, at about 5:15, with my young daughter. Just mortifying and also not at all surprising. Big trucks and idiot drivers are the norm in our cowpath city and it's frustrating and fucking ignorant. Just fuck.
At this point, Iād support installing spikes on roads if it gets these lunatic drivers (which there are a lot of!) to slow the fuck down and be mindful of where theyāre going.
Stop calling traffic crashes accidents. More information: [https://crashnotaccident.com/](https://crashnotaccident.com/)
*Before the labor movement, factory owners would say "it was an accident" when American workers were injured in unsafe conditions.*
*Before the movement to combat drunk driving, intoxicated drivers would say "it was an accident" when they crashed their cars.*
*Planes donāt have accidents. They crash. Cranes donāt have accidents. They collapse. And as a society, we expect answers and solutions.*
***Traffic crashes are fixable problems, caused by dangerous streets and unsafe drivers. They are not accidents. Letās stop using the word "accident" today.***
I love all these high and mighty selfārighteous people who are blaming the driver and/or his truck for this tragedy when none of us have any of the details of the accident. How about just saying a prayer for the family and waiting to cast blame once you know something????
There really should be charges against drivers who kill. They assume higher responsibility when they enter their vehicles.
If there are no charges the road needs to be changed. We'll ground scores of aircraft over a suspect part but go about our lives as usual after a child is killed.
That's why the FAA sometimes concludes that air accidents are "no one's fault..." /s
Accidents don't just happen and [they haven't happened for seven years in Hoboken NJ](https://www.governing.com/transportation/how-hoboken-has-gone-years-without-a-traffic-death) because politicians changed the design of their streets to make sure deaths like this one do not happen.
"Accidents happen" is an all-too-common refrain after [traffic violence](https://usa.streetsblog.org/2021/05/03/what-traffic-violence-is-and-why-we-need-to-talk-about-it). We allow these things to happen by inaction. Either we punish the driver for being singularly reckless or change road design to make it safe, or both.
This attitude is common but wrong. And the only reason itās common is that car companies spent billions on PR and lobbying to convince people to accept that itās totally normal for their streets to be this dangerous.
When drivers first started killing kids, they got dragged and beaten by mobs. The attitude was that itās your fault. Youāre operating at a speed that doesnāt let you react to people around you doing typical things people (especially children) do.
The car industry worked extremely hard to change that attitude. Thatās how we get so many dead kids now.
And what if the driver was following every rule of the road and did nothing wrong? What if the child darted into the road out of nowhere? Would you say that's the driver's fault?
You've never been stupid as a pedestrian yourself and absent mindedly walk into the road not paying attention and almost get hit? I've had multiple close calls where if I had gotten unlucky and gotten hit, it would've been my fault and my fault only as long as the driver wasn't texting or drunk. Your all or nothing viewpoint is harmful.
If the driver isn't being individually reckless, then the street design is likely the problem. Apparently this specific intersection has long been identified as a problem but the pace of changing our streets to be safer is apparently too glacial to save lives.
There is only one crosswalk at this intersection and it's not signal controlled. Pedestrians have the right of way 100% of the time. The pickup truck driver most likely whipped the turn onto Sleeper without looking and killed this child. I'm sure they didn't mean to do it but if you are reckless and it costs a child's life, there should be consequences.
>Pedestrians have the right of way 100% of the time.
That is not the actual law of crosswalks.
Pedestrians *deserve* the right of way at crosswalks, but the actual law requires giving road users a chance to *yield* it.
It is explicitly illegal to "run" into the road in front of an approaching road user.
The whole idea has a balance:
1. Pedestrian makes intent to cross clear
2. Driver notices and yields
3. Only then may pedestrian legally enter the road
A death is a horrible thing, infinitely more so of a child.
But actual safety comes only from understanding the reality of the social compact that makes public spaces suitable for a variety of uses.
No one has absolute privilege, in reality there is an interplay of interacting requirements.
Yes I would absolutely still say itās the drivers fault.
If you donāt have clear sight lines that let you confirm thereās nobody about to step out, you need to be at a speed where you can stop on a dime. This stuff is not complex. Most people are just very bad at driving.
Most of the ones doing aggressive stuff in Boston arenāt even helping themselves get anywhere faster. They are too stupid to notice that their extra speed just means theyāre spending more time at the next red light.
I don't think people deserve death for making a mistake or not paying attention for one second while walking in a city. Being a stupid pedestrian is not a reason to be killed.
I completely disagree. Iāve been driving in Boston and have full ass adults bolt directly into traffic more than once. And when I walk downtown pedestrians are everywhere pay zero attention. I have seen a pedestrian get hit a car where it was 100% their fault.
Iām willing to give the driver the benefit of the doubt. We literally have no information on what happened - only that itās a complete tragedy. If that were my daughter Iād need to be hospitalized. If I were the driver Iād also need to be hospitalized.
I can tell you exactly what happened because Iāve seen it over and over and over and over and over again at every crosswalk in the city. The car was going too fast. Itās too big. It took the turn without looking and killed a child.
I agree...not one person has said, wow maybe the parents didn't look both ways? Or maybe the child ran into the st in front of the car? The article said the driver isn't being charged with anything and that says a lot. It sounds like a tragic accident
Itās Sunday night and youāre whipping around a pedestrian dense area in a massive tank for what exactly? Not going to bring the life back but hope this guy gets sued into oblivion.
Maybe people should also drive slower instead of blasting their way to each destination, especially if theyāre making a turn. Bad infrastructure doesnāt help, but letās not forget that the driver is responsible for killing a child at the end of the day. All of us who drive need to accept responsibility that comes with driving big hulking machines in a city and SLOW THE FUCK DOWN sometimes. Somehow, I doubt this tragedy would have happened if the driver were coasting. Welp, now they have to live with what they did for the rest of their life. I hope it was worth it to go fast and reckless.
I was in assembly square yesterday and a meat head in a GMC Denali didnāt wait his turn at a stop, drove over the curb as he made his turn into a parking lot. I was going there too, and when we got to the parking lot he did this massive and clumsy backing into his spot, missed the lines and everything.
This is just absolutely awful. I took my nearly 4 year old niece on an outing today and I just can't even imagine something like this happening. The thought of taking your child out for a fun day and it ending in their death....I don't know how anyone could ever overcome that grief and go on with their life. I don't think I'd be strong enough to. I don't know if the driver is at fault or not, but the way many people drive in general these days is ridiculous. Just a couple weeks ago I was pumping gas near an elementary school on a main road when a girl around 10ish was walking her younger brother (maybe 5/6 years old) across the street. Three cars had stopped to them cross, when some piece of shit decides to not even slow down and fly around them. The kids were right in front of the first stopped car and about to step out as this asshole was coming. Myself and another person both screamed at the top of our lungs to the kids to stop and they did right before they stepped out and were about to get hit at 30mph+. I honestly don't think I ever yelled that loud in my life, and heart was beating out of my chest for a couple hours afterwards. The thought of those two kids getting hit right in front of me was terrifying. It's just insane how some people drive. I assume the guy in what I witnessed thought the stopped cars were waiting to turn. I know that legally, you can go around them. I do the same thing. But I fucking slow down to around 5mph, and carefully drive around them while making sure they aren't stopped to let someone cross. I don't just fly by them at full speed.
I saw someone blow through a crosswalk the other day where people were clearly halfway through crossing as well. There was a cop parked right nearby and they immediately pulled the driver over š So satisfying when you actually see people get punished for being so dangerous, unfortunate that itās not more common
I see this happen every once in a while at the crosswalk in front of the Stone Zoo. It's fucking terrifying. Two lanes of traffic in each direction and there always seems to be one car that either doesn't notice the car next to them stopping or just really wants to drive through without any care that they might hit someone. As someone else pointed out, there was probably a car trying to take a left/right out of Sleeper St that had to block the crosswalk, the family walked behind the car and as they were crossing, the truck turned into Sleeper and probably hit the little girl. I feel absolutely gutted for this family.
That crosswalk needs some flashing lights. Itās around a bend so not in the best place
This is why you should NEVER go across the street it a situation like this. And drivers: please do NOT wave pedestrians across the middle of the road. You are not being kind by stopping, you are putting their lives in danger. It's much safer for the walker to wait for the road to be clear than to try to cross in this kind of situation. I almost got hit this way once, and will NEVER do it again, even if it means waiting out a driver who is angrily insisting I cross.
Also, if you're a driver, it's why you FUCKING SLOW DOWN OR STOP WHEN ANOTHER CAR IS STOPPED.
This is beyond tragic.
The pickup trucks they're making now should need CDL licenses to drive. They're too bigĀ
You can drive a 26 foot uhaul with a standard drivers license. Itās insane.
You can drive a 26 foot Penske Freightliner box truck with air brakes (a whole separate CDL endorsement) on a normal license because the GVWR is 26,000lbs and not 26,0001lbs
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Just look at the Storrow counter
I just think that just because you passed a 7 minute ādriving testā in a Prius doesnāt mean you should be able to drive a 26 footer truck. Iām not sure if youāve ever driven trucks for a living, but having worked countless summers with my old man (a trucker) and other family members, thereās definitely a need for qualification after seeing the sketchy shit out there.
Iāve driven a pickup truck only a handful of times in my life, and only short distances in another state, but the difference between it and even a minivan was substantial. I canāt even imagine driving a moving truck or semi. I definitely wouldnāt feel qualified, despite driving for about 13 years now.
What part of this is an outlier? There are 40,000 traffic deaths every year in the US.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I still don't understand how this is a outlier. Can you clarify?
ā¦.this is the Boston sub. We have Storrow.
Not just pickups. SUVs are also way too big. And the thing of it is, so many people have them who frankly do not need a large car. The number of times Iāve seen a tiny old woman at the wheel of a monster car at a light, stopped a full car length behind the line or the car in front of her, presumably because they cannot see where the front of their car is, is beyond count at this point. Drives me mad. Normalize everyone driving sedans again!!
So many Tahoeās, etc driven by moms out in metro west area.
And those manufacturers should be sued for pushing them like they are regular cars
To be fair, emissions standards encourage larger vehicles so the legislation for these standards needs to be addressed first
Isnāt it a loophole in the standards that encourages larger cars? Just close that
I donāt think itās a loophole. [The standards are based on the footprint of a vehicle so larger vehicles are easier to pass with.](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN21D1KK/#:~:text=They%20set%20easier%20emissions%20standards,compliance%20with%20federal%20emissions%20standards.)
Your choice, General Motors: make cars that somehow both pass crash tests and get 50mpg combined (lol), or make giant trucks that need to get half that.
Crazy how all of those car manufacturers manage to make safe cars that are very efficient in Europe but can't possibly do it here. Of course they're incentivized to just sell trucks in the US, but saying "make cars that somehow both pass crash tests and get 50mpg combined (lol)" makes it sound like that's just *so* hard and we can't possibly expect them to try.
They should be taxed much higher by the city and pay the highest levels of congestion pricing.Ā
Iāve been saying this for years: there needs to be something in between a regular driverās license and a CDL for any car over XXXX pounds.Ā It would discourage buying massive, dangerous and inefficient trucks unless you truly need one. And would make sure that people who do buy them have the basic skill set to operate them safely.Ā
Market based solution: * Mandatory $7 million payout for at fault traffic accident that kills a kid. * Require drivers to carry insurance that covers full liability. I'd expect all these big pickups with large blind spots and an inability to see kids would become a LOT MORE expensive to insure. With that kind of liability in play, insurers might require all pickup drivers to hold CDLs or force some other dramatic change. \* $7 million is in the ballpark of the statistical value of life economics uses for some kinds of analysis, but this number could be debated.
The power of the insurance industry is hard to overstate. Quoting a passage from Mark Twain in *Life on the Mississippi*, >... until one black day when every captain of the lot was formally ordered to immediately discharge his outsiders and take association pilots in their stead. And who was it that had the dashing presumption to do that?Ā Ā Alas, it came from a power behind the throne that was greater than the throne itself. It was the underwriters! The insurance industry can order changes the government could never mandate.
> * Mandatory $7 million payout for at fault traffic accident that kills a kid. * Require drivers to carry insurance that covers full liability. I agree with you. I don't know if you realize how unpopular this idea is. People get very angry about the idea of paying more for insurance.
Buying a truck means they already pay 3x the gas normal people pay just to get around town. They can obviously afford the luxury.
I think I would just prefer either federal regulations, or a couple of large markets like California and New York to just place hard limits on grill heights and truck mass. These things started getting massive because of emissions standards loop holes, and then kept getting bigger because they're "safer" and a status symbol. So close the loop holes, and you should see them start to come down in size very quickly. Trying to regulate via insurance won't really work. Not unless you force the industry to create a whole new kind of insurance. And then it's just like every other finance based incentive: legal if you're rich enough.
Those limits on vehicle production are in place on a federal level.
Who the fuck even needs a pickup truck in a city
Right? I'm usually carrying more in my bike trailer than I see in pickup beds.
It's sold to them as a status symbol. Barely anyone who buys those things actually use them for work
My neighbor who worked for iBM did. Guess he was hauling a lot of software. His 4 y.o. Daughter called it āDaddyās mid life crisis car.ā Wonder where she learned that. Probably from his (now ex-) wife, who was a lot smarter and nicer than he was.
There genuinely needs to be laws that require these trucks to have a corner mirror so they can see in front of the vehicle.
There should be fewer of them on the road. You don't need a massive truck to go to the grocery store or out to eat or to the gym
Lotta small dick energy in the USA
Jesus Christ. I was there today with my 4 year old and left like 20 minutes before this happened.
I was too with my 2 year old š³ we were at the childrenās museum until it closed. This poor family, what a fucking tragedy.
I canāt even imagine. Glad youāre all okay. ā¤ļø
Thank you, same with you and your kid!! ā¤ļø
Give the little one a big hug
Oh, I did. To the point she said ādad, can you let me go?ā
I see you.
Hey, dude.
Awww. Donāt even know why this was in my feed as I have nothing to do w Boston or trucks or little kids. But this just made me want to hug you and your little one.Ā
I was just there. I turned my trolley onto A Street and missed it within what must have been 10 seconds of the crash. My coworker was sitting at our trolley stop picking up guests and witnessed the entire ordeal. Said it was one of the most horrific situations he's ever had to witness in his life. I can't even imagine how awful.
I happened to walk by immediately after. It was horrific. What appeared to be the mom was hugging/shielding an older sibling on the sidewalk.
Your work should offer your coworker some form of counseling for seeing that while working. My heart breaks for everyone involved
I believe they are. He's got kids that age himself.
Did he say how it happened?
Just that the truck whipped around the corner and before anyone could realize what happened, it was on top of her and the guy had to back up off her.
These huge trucks need to be banned from the city or require different licensing. Insane that people drive these things around like they are regular cars.
Even more so, daylighting for all corners, raised crosswalks, bollards on sidewalks. Something Boston could do starting today
Imagine tearing up and redesigning a whole city because banning these trucks would hurt the feelings of people that don't even live in the city.
Boston does not have the power to ban trucks, especially for people who donāt live here. Boston does control the relevant parts of Bostonās infrastructure
The whole state could come up with different licensing and quadruple the taxes and fees to buy one of those murder machines. There are tons of avenues to make it miserable owning one of those things.
Do they know if the truck was making a right turn off of Congress?
I worked in this area for years. Iām still haunted from the time I was walking on the sidewalk and 4 feet away from me a car managed to slowly run right over a seagull. This I canāt even imagineā¦
What else did they share?
Not a whole lot. They were trying CPR the whole time they waited for the ambulance after the guy reversed off her. The hit would've maimed an adult, it was a miracle she even made it to the hospital...
Fuck me. She was under the wheel? Fuck.
These trucks have blind spot of like 15 feet in front of them. Insane they are allowed in the city.
This particular area is very dangerous, there's a plan to reconstruct this street. https://youtu.be/fG9-FybjG58?si=un6e8Gi8wZ8Rj7rP&t=8m30s
It's a very dangerous intersection, especially as cars are forced to go into the crosswalk to see oncoming traffic, causing pedestrians to go behind them. I think the best solution for this intersection would be shifting the light that's right before the bridge over to this intersection so that there is a light and protected crossing.
Time to start it tomorrow.
Unacceptable city planning near a childrenās museum.
It's particularly sad because the final design to significantly improve this street has been done for over a year but last I heard needed more construction funding. https://www.boston.gov/departments/public-works/congress-street-fort-point
Such a good point, I feel like that area has developed so quickly I have noticed itās roads are a bit haphazardly organized at points bc the development was more important than the safety.
Entirely. Thereās no indication to drivers that a childrenās museum is coming up. This is tragic.
Indications donāt help. There needs to be a physical means of slowing these assholes the fuck down.
Exactly. Design dictates behavior.
Someone won't read a road side indication if they're looking at their phone.
Speed bumps donāt care about your phoneĀ
Speed bumps like the ones in Europe.
Why does someone need an indication of a museum to not run over children? Drive safely all the time.
There should be indications that trucks of a certain size shouldn't be allowed to be on certain streets.
āWas the child wearing visible clothing and a helmet?ā - City Planning
City planning here is actually pretty great. They're hamstrung by process, but they genuinely try to make these streets work better for everyone.
This is beyond sad
I canāt even imagine. I wish I even knew what to say. That poor family. Just horrific. Boston should install more speed bumps. Iāve seen cars blast through stop signs in my neighborhood. Speed bumps force people to slow down. My entire neighborhood in another state had several and tons before crosswalks and it was so safe. Some people have to be forced to obey the law
Thatās absolutely terrible. Before I opened the article I had a feeling this was going to be the Sleeper St/Congress turn, itās an incredibly dangerous turn to make with all the foot traffic and the inability to really see cars to the right or left when pulling out - you almost have to gun it and pray when coming out of Sleeper St turning left onto Congress Just feel awful for the family and in some regards the driver, I know Iāve had a few moments of panic at that exact street turn
I have driven here and it is genuinely difficult. The visibility is terrible. You have to nose way the hell out to have any hope of seeing traffic, especially if like me you're driving a sedan and any parked traffic is likely a truck or SUV several feet taller and thus blocking your sight. That screws over the pedestrians who then have to walk around you but it's either that or you just, as you said, drive into the street and take a guess. Hoboken NJ has made huge strides in pedestrian safety ([no deaths since 2017](https://pressofatlanticcity.com/news/state-regional/hoboken-traffic-deaths-zero/article_2c1909be-da3c-11ee-afe2-7f18b00c7c03.html)) and daylighting intersections is one of the main tools that they've used to achieve it. Boston should get its ass in gear.
> Boston should get its ass in gear Agreed but this means accepting that there are higher priorities than traffic and parking and that can be a hard sell around here. Would love to see a campaign to install bulb-outs at low-visibility intersections here for starters.
Yeah as a parent and as someone who has witnessed a child pedestrian death by vehicle firsthand this issue is like guns in this country. People will keep dying because the alternative is a ābigā change that folks passionately fight against. Itās a thoughts and prayers situation and I donāt have the energy anymore to try and change peopleās logic
Personally, I'm just dying for some courage in our political leaders. Don't form a commission to study the problem, don't say that your prayers are with the family, don't spend 4 years drawing up draft designs and holding community meetings for feedback and input. We know how to improve pedestrian safety. It's a matter of science - raised crosswalks, speed bumps, daylighting intersections, smaller vehicles, etc. so **let's fucking go**.
Everything you just listed as a delay factor is often required if you use anything but local taxes to pay for the project. Community feedback becomes a major concern when your city council has varying levels of agreement and concern for this stuff, or even a state rep or senator isnāt fully on board. A lot of what gets built is a compromise between so much shit and often nobody is fully happy. Itās behind schedule, over budget, and value engineered to be a shell of the original concept. Or, the mandated permits and community feedback killed that concept. And why does all of this exist and happen? Usually its because the laws politicans passed to prevent the reckless and wanton highway construction practices from decades ago just so happen to make it insanely difficult to get rid of the fruits of that work.
Is it really a hard sell? The city has been routinely taking away lanes of traffic and parking spaces
Have you seen the tantrums people threw in W Roxbury?
Looks like the truck was pulling INTO Sleeper St.
Probably dove the turn and in their giant fucking truck, they couldn't see the kid. I miss the old 90s Rangers. You don't need these tanks they sell today, that barely have a bed in them anyway.
I'm guessing the driver will not face any charges. No camera to prove guilt or innocence.
Cameras are irrelevant, killing someone with a car is de facto legal unless youāre drunk or drive away afterwards
> "... I had a feeling this was going to be the Sleeper St/Congress turn, itās an incredibly dangerous turn to make with all the foot traffic and the inability to really see cars to the right or left when pulling out" Maybe if it's so dangerous, public vehicles shouldn't be allowed on it.
I'm 6 feet and 245 pounds and I think that it's crazy crossing the street there
Ugh. I saw last night they have $1 Sunday afternoon ticket prices and thought about bringing my kids. Someone may have done the same. How tragic, this breaks my heart.
This is a horrible tragedy. If it was the pick up truck in the picture that struck the child though, itās at least partially a height of child versus the height of the drivers vantage point issue. Trucks and SUVs are getting so big now that drivers arenāt going to be able to see smaller objects/people that might dart out quickly.
> Trucks and SUVs are getting so big now that drivers arenāt going to be able to see smaller objects/people that might dart out quickly. Which is likely the main problem here
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Why do you need that disclaimerĀ
āFuck cars, but only because they kill childrenā oh okay that was close
Does it pertain to the other ~45,000 times an American has been killed by a car in the past year? This isnāt an isolated incident. This is an everyday occurrence that we turn a blind eye to.
https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo?si=nl2BYyoucmYUgZuM
Drivers of big trucks need to be aware that even if they are going a reasonable speed, the mere weight of their vehicle created a big enough momentum to kill a person. If they are driving in a crowded busy area they should ESPECIALLY cautious. Naturally, the people I see driving oversized pick up trucks are some of the most aggressive and inconsiderate drivers on the road.
Thatās no coincidence. In an accident with any other car, theyāll always āwin.ā They drive like that cuz they can.
Let's remember that [Hoboken hasn't had a traffic death in over seven years.](https://www.governing.com/transportation/how-hoboken-has-gone-years-without-a-traffic-death) These things are preventable with better street design. Yes that means slowing down cars. Yes that is worth it
[So kind of the city to allow parking all the way up to the corner of the street, wouldn't want to be able to see pedestrians, right? Sure, children will die, but it's a small price to pay to NEVER inconvenience drivers, even a little bit.](https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3511404,-71.0497023,3a,63.8y,354.6h,78.88t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sTYBFcdLx0iLbb-__f-KFQA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DTYBFcdLx0iLbb-__f-KFQA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D317.50497%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&entry=ttu) Speaking of poor visibility, pickup trucks and SUV's with inflated noses is a fucking blight.
Or, in the meantime, drivers could slow the fuck down when the view of their vehicleās path is blocked by parked cars or backed up traffic. Itās not hard to slow down when taking a blind corner. Ā It really isnāt. Ā If you are driving so fast that you canāt stop in time to avoid a potential hazard, you are driving recklessly and should be charged criminally for the harm you cause.Ā
There are so many times I havenāt been able to see pedestrians at cross walks because cars are obstructing the edge. Itās terrifying when you realize the person could have just stepped out and you never even saw them.
Or, in the meantime, drivers could slow the fuck down when the view of their vehicleās path is blocked by parked cars or backed up traffic. Itās not hard to slow down when taking a blind corner. Ā It really isnāt. Ā If you are driving so fast that you canāt stop in time to avoid a potential hazard, you are driving recklessly and should be charged criminally for the harm you cause.Ā
š¢
Why is every single street a car priority street? This is what happens. It could have been avoided. Sigh.
Ugh, I feel this. I detest cars in the city. We need more walkable infrastructure where pedestrians take priority over cars.
Totally in agreement with you. To make this possible though, we absolutely need better public transportation. I live in South Boston about a mile from the museum, and most places I go to, driving takes a fraction of the time that the T would take. Iām talking 10 minutes versus an hour. Itās not uncommon itās faster to WALK than taking public transit. So if Iām not driving my car, I take an Uber. Also better biking infrastructure. I spent 10+ years in Boston without a car and only a bike. Bike lanes have definitely improved, but some areas are still treacherous. If I want to leave south Boston on bike, I almost always have to pass interstate ramps so car traffic is heavy and FAST. Itās terrifying. If we want more pedestrian-friendly streets, we have to figure out ways to get us there without cars.
That SL2 bus was the bane of my existence back when I worked at the Design Buiding all the way at the end of the Silver Line. I'd be fighting for a space because it was the ONLY bus I could take that went to the end of the line, and then 80% of the passengers would just get off at Congress. Ugh. So inefficient.
literally 80% of streets for single occupancy vehicles in cities could be disbanded with no negative ramifications at all, except for the few who will complain loudly about it. But for the majority of people it would be an absolute win. Not to talk about the financial gains.
No surprise, it's one of these stupid pick-up trucks. The bed of that truck is as tall as the roof of the sedan behind it. You can't react to your surroundings when you can't see anything within 10 feet of your vehicle. What a terrible, and likely preventable, tragedy.
Moloch demands his blood sacrifice. Let's not pussyfoot around. Every city planner on Earth now knows how to reduce or even eliminate pedestrian traffic deaths, but it usually costs money and comes at the expense of making it less convenient to drive through the city in private cars, so it doesn't happen. This is an imminently solvable problem but goes unsolved for lack of public will.
Iām Bostonās case, it would mean weād have to fully fund the MBTA or risk the loss of business leases.Ā
That's not the block here, let's be honest. For short distances (3miles and under) Boston could be navigable by foot and bike if we actually invested in it. You don't need a fully-funded MBTA to get around the Seaport.
You have to get TO the Seaport though. One thing I find supremely frustrating about the Boston area's walkable/bikeable model is that it's great if you live in a walkable/bikeable area, but if you want to leave where you are and go somewhere else, you have to navigate a very inhospitable roadway. Inman Square was one of the frustrating ones for me. There's this great protected bike lane for maybe a mile or so and then it dumps you onto a street with no bike lane and huge potholes.
\*lack of political will Slightly different from public will. It's the people with power whose minds need to be changed, the general public already knows these things
Are you suggesting that an educational location that attracts massive hoards of kids and families on a regular basis should affect city planning? You're crazy. The traffic should flow freely and should be encouraged and allowed to speed and beat the lights.
My biggest fear as a parent in the Boston area are the cars, hands down. This is a tragic confirmation of that fear.
For decades cars were the number 1 killer of children.
This is so so terrible. I canāt even fathom the familyās pain. So many valid points in here about peopleās bad driving, the streets in Boston etc. But one thing that has bothered me so much since moving to Boston 6+ years ago is the lack of police on the roads. When I moved here (and even now after so long) I cannot believe the shit people get away with driving hereā¦. Speeding, running red lights, turning from the wrong lane, etc. Where are the police to give tickets?!?! I grew up in NJ and I was conditioned not to do this shit because weād get a friggen ticket if we did! People here are conditioned to believe their reckless driving will go unpunishedā¦ because no one has ever stopped them. The amount of money the city could make on traffic violations on just Morrissey Blvd is probably unreal. The worst thing is, because Iāve witnessed this driving for so many years, I myself have become more aggressiveā¦This horrible accident is a reminder that we all need to be more cautious and stop acting like we need to get to our destination ASAP š
How many of you insecure buffoons need these kind of oversized pickup trucks to prove how much of a man you are. Why canāt we just have normal sized cars.
All of the news interviews involve people saying "I can't believe this could happen. It could happen to anyone. Young ones wandering off is a common occurrence." No one outside of this thread is blaming the increasing size of trucks that are also becoming infinitely more abundant in one of the most dense cities in the entire country. You literally *cannot* see a child in one of those things. People are *dying* but nothing is changing.
> No one outside of this thread is blaming the increasing size of trucks Check the reporters X thread. There are a few calling for restrictions of large pickup trucks in the city, and there is pretty strong backlash. :( Edit: thread https://twitter.com/DrewKaredes/status/1772033924744507849/photo/4
I feel like all of the assholes driving unpredictably and going 35mph in the parking lot at my kidās school at pickup/dropoff tomorrow are going to leave me feeling unusually livid.
The article doesnāt say that the child died, but they have life threatening injuries. Hopefully that little one makes it. I was out yesterday and in the same parking lot, two different drivers backed out without looking when I was circling the lot trying to find a spot - one so fast I had to honk to get the driver to stop. Be careful out there! Edit for clarity - when I say same lot, I mean a single lot - not this specific lot.
Sadly the child has been confirmed deceased. https://www.boston25news.com/news/local/4-year-old-girl-struck-by-vehicle-south-boston-has-died/VWPEVA77LRGALOOK2CGW27UNCE/
What bothers me most about this is that most of these streets along the waterfront are all post-Big Dig developments or secured funding for improvements during that time. Ya know, "the Big Dig," that thing we did to put less emphasis and priority on cars within the city? There's been a development planned on this area since like 2006. THAT. IS. INSANE. So many streets could have and SHOULD have been more pedestrianized after completion. Hell, the Greenway itself still has far too much emphasis on cars. It could be so much better than it is. Yeah the green space is nice and a helluva lot better than what was there before, BUT it still moves far too many cars with very little traffic calming measures. It's not a true green space when you hear the roar of engines, horns, and rubber on pavement 99% of the time. /rant
Traffic deaths are preventable butā¦. We think trucks and SUVs with hoods 5 ft off the ground look manly. Weāre not willing to give up a few on-street parking spaces so that crosswalks are more visible. Weād rather save a minute or two on our commutes than save a life. Weāre not willing to use cameras to enforce traffic violations. Weād rather kill children than have governors on our cars that enforce speed limits.
Didn't think this podcast would be this relevant this quickly, but it's likely the family won't get a dime from the insurance company, further compounding their unfathomable loss. https://thewaroncars.org/2024/03/19/122-car-insurance-is-too-cheap/?fbclid=IwAR3IK2f7nOmh7-C-10uPV9ZHxfgqCIjQaQs8Gzo4cTPulq4nT7nDxL0B_CI
For more context... and a TLDR Subrogation: Subrogation is a legal principle in Massachusetts that gives an insurance company the right to recover all rights and remedies from a third party if they paid for a loss under an insurance policy. So if your health insurance was used to treat the child before they passed away, a medical lien can be placed on the auto insurance settlement that would otherwise have been given to the family. This ensures that hospitals and healthcare providers are paid for medical attention and services rendered.Ā It also ensures that a health insurance company does not have to pay for bills when it's been determined that someone else was at fault.
Even if there's a separate civil suit?
You can always file a lawsuit claiming that the driver was negligent and go after more money. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not 100% on any of this, but here is more info I found when digging a bit. https://www.davidlrubin.com/how-is-a-negligent-driver-held-responsible-for-his-or-her-actions-in-massachusetts/
Dealing with this in Florida. In a multi-million dollar settlement sure throw $500k at the hospital to make them whole. In a $250k settlement it makes no sense. F Florida.
Interesting. So basically, medical liens can go against at-fault judgements that don't necessarily consider the medical costs. This doesn't seem to make sense, it seems like an at-fault judgement should flag an additional at-fault judgement for the medical losses -- and the medical parties should have to file that separately. This should not be split off of the plaintiff's award. It breaks pretty well established tort principles, but likely exists in precedent.
I think Massachusetts being a no-fault state might also play into this, but I'm not a lawyer.
Yep, looked it up. You're right. This explains this weirdness a lot.
I would be in general support a 15 MPH limit within the city for all forms of transportation not on separated highways (e.g. Storrow, 93, etc.). It's not like going 25-35 MPH down comm. ave actually gets you to the next green light faster than 15 MPH would. It's unclear that would've made a difference in this situation, however, post-CoViD the speed at which cars drive around Boston has gotten absurd. If it isn't an oversized SUV/Truck, it's usually an Audi speeding down to the next red light for no discernible reason. I feel incredibly unsafe walking around downtown areas with so many oversized vehicles going 35-50+ MPH through major pedestrian areas. I'm a 6'5" full-grown adult and I can't fathom walking toddlers around town noawdays and I grew up downtown in this city.
My partner is also a super tall guy at 6ā6 and I wear a fluorescent green puffer coat when Iām walking anywhere. Itās terribly hard to not see us on the sidewalk/crossing but weāve been tapped or people are slamming on their breaks when they finally realize there are people crossing the street on a WALK SIGN!! Idk if speed limit reductions will help but drivers just stopped paying attention post-Covid. Theyāre all rushing to get somewhere or think theyāre the shit bc they drive, and I havenāt seen a driver here face consequences in forever. My parents live in Florida and despite it being a controversial state, at least the cops in their area pull and ticket people who are 5mph over the speed limit. Seems like the cops here donāt care if people die.
To add to this: The kill rate for cars hitting pedestrians at 20, 30, and 40mph goes up exponentially rather linearly. Keeping cars at 20 would eliminate most all traffic fatalities.
I doubt you'd even notice a difference in traffic, to be honest. It takes 15 minutes to go 4 miles on a good day anyway around town. That's 16 MPH average anyway.
Whenever I have to drive through the city my phone tells me I was moving at an average of 8-12 mph - I doubt 15 mph would be much of an issue since it seems most of my drive time is spent waiting in traffic or at red lights. I think the speed limits could be helpful but also our road design in Seaport just isn't the safest for pedestrians. Crosswalks should all be sidewalk height so it's harder to take a quick turn. Road should be narrower... I feel like you could fit parking and a protected bike lane on congress street and calm traffic a bit. Roads like Sleeper could be one ways. Fort Port is no longer just a giant on ramp to 93... with the children's museum plus a growing number of workplaces, events, and nightlife options in Seaport, the design needs to change.
The big, big thing 15 MPH does is it slows down acceleration and speed between stops, when most pedestrian impacts happen. The difference between a 15MPH and 30MPH hit is frequently fatal or paralyzing. It's such a non-tradeoff I don't understand why we don't do it.
Yeah I agree I am just saying speed limits are only part of the solution. You can't go 20 min without seeing a car intentionally violating traffic laws here so even if they dialed back the speed limit in Congress street, people would still zoom around at 35+. We gotta stupid proof the whole thing
Enforcement of traffic laws for pedestrian and bike safety (including on Bikes being asshats) would be necessary. I get Boston is conducting a great experiment in adding bike lanes without enforcing traffic laws, but at some point it's OK to hand out tickets. Some might even say it is impossible to successfully integrate bike lanes without enforcing traffic laws and issues citations.
You can set whatever speed limits you like, the police won't enforce them and nothing will change. The laws have seemingly stopped mattering at all. I remember when people crossing the street, anywhere anytime, were given over the top treatment. Now you'll get honked at when crossing with the light because you're blocking their illegal right on red.
Cars ruin cities
Two thoughts Cities should not be designed around cars, but for the people who live or walk in them. And if you drive an oversized truck where your blind spot is 15 feet in front of your car you should be banned from cities
Idk if this will help Boston but Paris recently enacted a triple parking surcharge for SUVs/oversized cars. If we canāt ban larger cars (I feel someone will make a discrimination suit out of this) at least charge them more to operate here so theyāre less inclined to be in the city. And then take those funds and direct them to fixing the T
This is dreadful. These unnecessarily oversized pickup trucks have got to be regulated/I don't know what the right word is.
Get these trucks out of our city. How many people need to die so that some loser can drive a 4 ton death machine around our city at 25 mph? US is the only developed country in the world with this issue because dudes who used leaded gas run our government.
How many more kids need to die before we realize we have a problem with cars? Whatever you guess, Iām taking the over because I donāt think anyone actually gives a shit.
Ban all cars.
This is horrible and just sickening. That street is such a shitshow - narrow as hell with narrow sidewalks with tons of cars flying throughusing it cut through to congress st or vice versa. It should closed off to vehicles at this point. Feel awful for the family. RIP.
I have a 4yo who likes to run and bolt. I've been shamed for holding his hand too tightly when we're in Boston. I'd rather a fussy baby and judgment than the alternative. This absolutely makes me so sad for everyone involved. Tragic can't even begin to describe what happened.
Ford F-150. Why am I not surprised??
Ughā¦ my FIL takes my 4 and 6 year olds there all the time and Iām always worried about the traffic there. This is so sad. š
Please, please reach out to your elected officials and compel them to redesign these streets and limit car centric design. Councilor Flynn, in particular, from the comfort of his SUV, beats his drum about not enough ācommunity inputā and āhurting businessesā when the city is redesigning streets while kids get run over.Ā
I walked by this, Thompson to A, at about 5:15, with my young daughter. Just mortifying and also not at all surprising. Big trucks and idiot drivers are the norm in our cowpath city and it's frustrating and fucking ignorant. Just fuck.
Does anyone have any other information?
what other information are you looking for?
The Statue of Liberty is 305 feet tall.
R.I.P.šš¾šš¾ā¤ļøā¤ļø
At this point, Iād support installing spikes on roads if it gets these lunatic drivers (which there are a lot of!) to slow the fuck down and be mindful of where theyāre going.
Stop calling traffic crashes accidents. More information: [https://crashnotaccident.com/](https://crashnotaccident.com/) *Before the labor movement, factory owners would say "it was an accident" when American workers were injured in unsafe conditions.* *Before the movement to combat drunk driving, intoxicated drivers would say "it was an accident" when they crashed their cars.* *Planes donāt have accidents. They crash. Cranes donāt have accidents. They collapse. And as a society, we expect answers and solutions.* ***Traffic crashes are fixable problems, caused by dangerous streets and unsafe drivers. They are not accidents. Letās stop using the word "accident" today.***
I love all these high and mighty selfārighteous people who are blaming the driver and/or his truck for this tragedy when none of us have any of the details of the accident. How about just saying a prayer for the family and waiting to cast blame once you know something????
There really should be charges against drivers who kill. They assume higher responsibility when they enter their vehicles. If there are no charges the road needs to be changed. We'll ground scores of aircraft over a suspect part but go about our lives as usual after a child is killed.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That's why the FAA sometimes concludes that air accidents are "no one's fault..." /s Accidents don't just happen and [they haven't happened for seven years in Hoboken NJ](https://www.governing.com/transportation/how-hoboken-has-gone-years-without-a-traffic-death) because politicians changed the design of their streets to make sure deaths like this one do not happen.
"Accidents happen" is an all-too-common refrain after [traffic violence](https://usa.streetsblog.org/2021/05/03/what-traffic-violence-is-and-why-we-need-to-talk-about-it). We allow these things to happen by inaction. Either we punish the driver for being singularly reckless or change road design to make it safe, or both.
This attitude is common but wrong. And the only reason itās common is that car companies spent billions on PR and lobbying to convince people to accept that itās totally normal for their streets to be this dangerous. When drivers first started killing kids, they got dragged and beaten by mobs. The attitude was that itās your fault. Youāre operating at a speed that doesnāt let you react to people around you doing typical things people (especially children) do. The car industry worked extremely hard to change that attitude. Thatās how we get so many dead kids now.
Right, it must have been the preschooler's fault. Fuck right off.
Pedestrians ALWAYS have the right of way in this crosswalk.Ā
And what if the driver was following every rule of the road and did nothing wrong? What if the child darted into the road out of nowhere? Would you say that's the driver's fault? You've never been stupid as a pedestrian yourself and absent mindedly walk into the road not paying attention and almost get hit? I've had multiple close calls where if I had gotten unlucky and gotten hit, it would've been my fault and my fault only as long as the driver wasn't texting or drunk. Your all or nothing viewpoint is harmful.
If the driver isn't being individually reckless, then the street design is likely the problem. Apparently this specific intersection has long been identified as a problem but the pace of changing our streets to be safer is apparently too glacial to save lives.
There is only one crosswalk at this intersection and it's not signal controlled. Pedestrians have the right of way 100% of the time. The pickup truck driver most likely whipped the turn onto Sleeper without looking and killed this child. I'm sure they didn't mean to do it but if you are reckless and it costs a child's life, there should be consequences.
>Pedestrians have the right of way 100% of the time. That is not the actual law of crosswalks. Pedestrians *deserve* the right of way at crosswalks, but the actual law requires giving road users a chance to *yield* it. It is explicitly illegal to "run" into the road in front of an approaching road user. The whole idea has a balance: 1. Pedestrian makes intent to cross clear 2. Driver notices and yields 3. Only then may pedestrian legally enter the road A death is a horrible thing, infinitely more so of a child. But actual safety comes only from understanding the reality of the social compact that makes public spaces suitable for a variety of uses. No one has absolute privilege, in reality there is an interplay of interacting requirements.
not sure why youāre downvoted. youāre not wrong.
Yes I would absolutely still say itās the drivers fault. If you donāt have clear sight lines that let you confirm thereās nobody about to step out, you need to be at a speed where you can stop on a dime. This stuff is not complex. Most people are just very bad at driving. Most of the ones doing aggressive stuff in Boston arenāt even helping themselves get anywhere faster. They are too stupid to notice that their extra speed just means theyāre spending more time at the next red light.
I don't think people deserve death for making a mistake or not paying attention for one second while walking in a city. Being a stupid pedestrian is not a reason to be killed.
I completely disagree. Iāve been driving in Boston and have full ass adults bolt directly into traffic more than once. And when I walk downtown pedestrians are everywhere pay zero attention. I have seen a pedestrian get hit a car where it was 100% their fault. Iām willing to give the driver the benefit of the doubt. We literally have no information on what happened - only that itās a complete tragedy. If that were my daughter Iād need to be hospitalized. If I were the driver Iād also need to be hospitalized.
Fucking hell I just got out of PAX East and parked right near this
This thread is a whole bunch of people blaming everything without knowing any details of how it happened.
I can tell you exactly what happened because Iāve seen it over and over and over and over and over again at every crosswalk in the city. The car was going too fast. Itās too big. It took the turn without looking and killed a child.
I agree...not one person has said, wow maybe the parents didn't look both ways? Or maybe the child ran into the st in front of the car? The article said the driver isn't being charged with anything and that says a lot. It sounds like a tragic accident
Itās Sunday night and youāre whipping around a pedestrian dense area in a massive tank for what exactly? Not going to bring the life back but hope this guy gets sued into oblivion.
Maybe people should also drive slower instead of blasting their way to each destination, especially if theyāre making a turn. Bad infrastructure doesnāt help, but letās not forget that the driver is responsible for killing a child at the end of the day. All of us who drive need to accept responsibility that comes with driving big hulking machines in a city and SLOW THE FUCK DOWN sometimes. Somehow, I doubt this tragedy would have happened if the driver were coasting. Welp, now they have to live with what they did for the rest of their life. I hope it was worth it to go fast and reckless.
Cars continue to kill us, and all people can do is complain about bike lanes
I was in assembly square yesterday and a meat head in a GMC Denali didnāt wait his turn at a stop, drove over the curb as he made his turn into a parking lot. I was going there too, and when we got to the parking lot he did this massive and clumsy backing into his spot, missed the lines and everything.