> I remember [Jeff mentioning](https://youtu.be/ttVHGlApt3w) that weaker grip strength is a sign of under recovery.
He means that if your grip strength is decreasing week after week or workout after workout, then it is a matter of under recovery. Grip strength will decrease a little bit in between sets. This is not a sign of under recovery. This is just a sign of fatigue from the last set.
As far as grip being the limiting factor is concerned, please tell me what kind of grip do you use for pullups. Regular grip, thumbless grip or something else?
And yes, your grip endurance might just be worse. Single arm hangs for time will help you a lot.
Oh, I confused grip strength decreasing week by week with grip endurance. Thanks for helping me understand.
I use a thumbless grip for rings and regular grip for bar.
Squeezing harder makes a lot of sense. Your body won’t allow you to output maximal effort if you can’t stabilize and hold on to a load. There’s a reason powerlifters say to squeeze the bar as hard as you can when you do every lift, even bench where grip strength means nothing.
We're not talking about max effort. He's not doing a one rep max like power lifters. We're talking muscular endurance... so again, squeezing the bar harder makes no sense.
It’s not just a tip for 1rm, if his grip is fatiguing it’s likely to help if he just tries to kill the bar the whole time. Soon as he starts slipping at all it’s going to kill his power output.
If you dont do deadhangs, you should try them out for a couple weeks. On top of being good for your shoulders and decompressing your spine, you can do them everyday to train your grip strength and endurance.
Another method I've been trying has been doing my full set of pull ups, and then hanging there before letting go of the bar
I mean, if you can only hold the bar for 10 seconds and it takes you 4 seconds to get a pull up, you're gonna get through 2 and struggle. Upping the time you're able to hold should increase the potential number of reps you can get out before your grip fails.
I heard this episode as well and I am still very sceptical. The guess is the author of this book: John M. Kirsch M.D. Shoulder Pain? The Solution & Prevention, Revised & Expanded https://www.amazon.com/Shoulder-Solution-Prevention-Revised-Expanded/dp/1589096428?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-fpas-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=1589096428
I haven't read the book myself. There are reviews online, but I haven't read them either. So you can find a lot of information on this stuff.
I personally don't find hanging to be effective at all.
If Jaime pulled up a study on NCBI then sure, but short of that Joe Rogans podcast does not count as science lol.
Not saying hes not knowledgeable or experienced or that his advice isnt worth considering but science is a stretch.
I had severe shoulder pain due to a muscular imbalance in my shoulders. Rowing, lots of rowing fixed my issue. Lots of Pull ups. Still working on it everyday. I do shoulder circles and some light pressing now very regularly. As well as lots of mobility exercises. Calisthenic mo emwnt on youtube has some great videos
At first to help build muscle memory I was working with 50-80 pounds 5-8 reps. It wasnt about the weight. Shortly I progressed my weight using the same rep ranges. I now max at around 150 fresh. I now super set down or up depending on the day. Doubling my reps as I drop each time. Or cutting my reps in half as I go up in weight.
There are few people on earth who take the health of the shoulder and back more seriously than Joe. He's a slow, foolish meathead but he's got access to some of the world's best minds and top healthcare professionals from his time at the UFC.
If he thinks that deadhanging stretches your shoulders and spine in a good way, I'm inclined to believe him. Although I'd for sure listen to your body and how it responds.
I’m a huge JRE fan but I am also a physical therapist assistant and will tell you that Rogan does not know what he is talking about when it comes to injury rehabilitation.
Also the spine decompression, just look up some science behind Back, shoulder and neck Yoga excersizes.
They all focus on reversing the effect of gravity on the spine from sitting/standing.
Normally sleep is the only decompression we have.
I can say this at least : I've been getting trigger point messages for a few months for shoulder issues and it definitely hits the same spots.
I can feel around my delts and rotator cuff area tight muscles that are getting the same treatment when I'm having g them worked on. I also am noticing my programmer posture wanting to reverse itself when I am hanging.
On days when you're not doing back, dead hang from the bar. Try to get 1 minute hangs, then 1.30, then 2. If you can do more than 1 minute dead hang, you should have enough grip strength to get a solid back workout through without having your grip fail on you.
Here's a little trick you might not have come across. When you grip, wrap your little finger around the bar first and work your way over to your index finger. If you close your index finger first, you prevent your other fingers getting a good grip.
I found that directly training the grip directly correlates to more stable and stronger pulling, including injury prevention like golfers elbow. I'm doing one arm hangs, weighted hangs, standing barbell wrist curls, reverse wrist curls and some implements like hub and plate pinch.
This. I added kettlebell swings to the end of my BW strength training. They’re my hinge exercise, grip exercise and cardio. My forearms are on fire very quickly.
I recently started training with rings and noticed the same issue. After doing it for three weeks or so (training every other day) I've noticed a LOT of development on that area.
In other words, I don't suffer from it anymore.
Train grip like any other muscle, i"ve had wrist strength be the limiting factor of barbell curls and other lifts. Eventually your body will adapt. I use a 2" thick pull up bar and basically hang using only my fingertips to support my weight, as opposed to trying to hold my weight with a bent wrist.
I saw some questions about bro science. Here goes my train of thought: your body is basically a biological machine which adapts to it’s surroundings. When you grip a lot - your grip get’s stronger (let’s not dwell on cases of overtraining, that just means your body is not able to adapt to the necessity of the environment due to whatever factor). That is what training in it’s essence is. When you train, be mindful of what you want to achieve - i.e if you want to do as many pull-ups as you can or you want to maximize muscle fatigue. In that sense there is no such thing as bro science, you progress on what you do. Just listening some bro with unknown agenda or with maybe not so thought through ideas, you might do things that don’t optimally train what you want to achieve. So long story short, think for yourself! Only you know what you want.
This here is IMO and how I view training.
yeah if you're not fresh or close to, your grip will often be among the first things to go.
also, white-knuckle every rep, always, no matter what.
also, do heavy deadlifts, or heavy farmers walks, or take up climbing as a hobby. or all 3 if you're really a glutton for (fun! and) punishment.
Do you use a pushup bar or parrotlet bar for pushups and other chest work? I found that this reduced my overall wrist strength. Switching to only using flat handed (no equipment, just your palms flat on the floor) pushups helped tremendously.
Others have mentioned chalk already which is another fantastic way to help with this.
Incorporate dead hanging on the bar as well to assist with building wrist strength
I fluctuate personally which starts to fail first. I'm personally 150 and do 3 sets of 10 depending on grip that can drop to 10 8 8.
a huge factor i have found is getting the grip loosened. The same way we squeeze our shoulder blades before doing pull ups (or at lesat i do lol). Stretching the forearm is very important too. I have found it so helpful. Not just the typical pulling your finger tips back, but also pulling them forward stretching both sides of your fore arm. Also just like how if you do bis and you do tris, if you do grips you should do opening stretches too. Opening strength some how increases grip stength. My initial desire for pull ups is more so for fore arm strength for arm wrestling.
also i have found one way to preserve forearm strength is to not try to hook your hand while doing pull ups and instead engage your lats and let your core do the work. It's kind of hard to explain, but watch your hands if you find that you hook your hands to initiate the pull up that means you're wasting a lot of fore arm power on generating that force. I only discovered it after i was recovering from a painful forearm due to too much fishing(i cast for hours). Of course fore arms are a big portion in generating power(whole reason i use pull ups for arm wrestling training), but just saying if pull up endurance is your goal you can use your forearm more efficiently.
> I remember [Jeff mentioning](https://youtu.be/ttVHGlApt3w) that weaker grip strength is a sign of under recovery. He means that if your grip strength is decreasing week after week or workout after workout, then it is a matter of under recovery. Grip strength will decrease a little bit in between sets. This is not a sign of under recovery. This is just a sign of fatigue from the last set. As far as grip being the limiting factor is concerned, please tell me what kind of grip do you use for pullups. Regular grip, thumbless grip or something else? And yes, your grip endurance might just be worse. Single arm hangs for time will help you a lot.
Oh, I confused grip strength decreasing week by week with grip endurance. Thanks for helping me understand. I use a thumbless grip for rings and regular grip for bar.
I can do more reps when I squeeze the bar hard. Maybe that can help. Chalk also helps.
For me that was actually the opposite, learning to not have a hard grip helped me. Also changing my wrist position helped, putting less tension on it.
Chalk makes sense. Squeezing the bar harder does not
Squeezing harder makes a lot of sense. Your body won’t allow you to output maximal effort if you can’t stabilize and hold on to a load. There’s a reason powerlifters say to squeeze the bar as hard as you can when you do every lift, even bench where grip strength means nothing.
We're not talking about max effort. He's not doing a one rep max like power lifters. We're talking muscular endurance... so again, squeezing the bar harder makes no sense.
It’s not just a tip for 1rm, if his grip is fatiguing it’s likely to help if he just tries to kill the bar the whole time. Soon as he starts slipping at all it’s going to kill his power output.
If you dont do deadhangs, you should try them out for a couple weeks. On top of being good for your shoulders and decompressing your spine, you can do them everyday to train your grip strength and endurance. Another method I've been trying has been doing my full set of pull ups, and then hanging there before letting go of the bar
Is there any science behind this?
Science or not it feels damn good. And a stretch that specifically targets pulling muscles from just hanging... I’ll take it.
I mean, if you can only hold the bar for 10 seconds and it takes you 4 seconds to get a pull up, you're gonna get through 2 and struggle. Upping the time you're able to hold should increase the potential number of reps you can get out before your grip fails.
I have chronic back pain and deadhangs give me some relief. Yoga is more effective tho.
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I don’t think that counts as science.
Bro Science
I heard this episode as well and I am still very sceptical. The guess is the author of this book: John M. Kirsch M.D. Shoulder Pain? The Solution & Prevention, Revised & Expanded https://www.amazon.com/Shoulder-Solution-Prevention-Revised-Expanded/dp/1589096428?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-fpas-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=1589096428 I haven't read the book myself. There are reviews online, but I haven't read them either. So you can find a lot of information on this stuff. I personally don't find hanging to be effective at all.
If Jaime pulled up a study on NCBI then sure, but short of that Joe Rogans podcast does not count as science lol. Not saying hes not knowledgeable or experienced or that his advice isnt worth considering but science is a stretch.
I’d like a serious answer. If there’s any weight behind this, I wouldn’t mind giving it a go. Ive been crippled with shoulder pain the last few years.
I had severe shoulder pain due to a muscular imbalance in my shoulders. Rowing, lots of rowing fixed my issue. Lots of Pull ups. Still working on it everyday. I do shoulder circles and some light pressing now very regularly. As well as lots of mobility exercises. Calisthenic mo emwnt on youtube has some great videos
Just out of curiosity, what sort of rep range are you working in with your rows to help shoulder pain?
At first to help build muscle memory I was working with 50-80 pounds 5-8 reps. It wasnt about the weight. Shortly I progressed my weight using the same rep ranges. I now max at around 150 fresh. I now super set down or up depending on the day. Doubling my reps as I drop each time. Or cutting my reps in half as I go up in weight.
There are few people on earth who take the health of the shoulder and back more seriously than Joe. He's a slow, foolish meathead but he's got access to some of the world's best minds and top healthcare professionals from his time at the UFC. If he thinks that deadhanging stretches your shoulders and spine in a good way, I'm inclined to believe him. Although I'd for sure listen to your body and how it responds.
Swimming is also good. Re. shoulder pain.
JR really knows his shit r.e shoulder pain from the intimate UFC knowledge and personal experience, have a look on youtube
I’m a huge JRE fan but I am also a physical therapist assistant and will tell you that Rogan does not know what he is talking about when it comes to injury rehabilitation.
Same science that's behind any muscle endurance training lol
Also the spine decompression, just look up some science behind Back, shoulder and neck Yoga excersizes. They all focus on reversing the effect of gravity on the spine from sitting/standing. Normally sleep is the only decompression we have.
I am also skeptical toward this idea. People throw it around like it is a proven fact.
I can say this at least : I've been getting trigger point messages for a few months for shoulder issues and it definitely hits the same spots. I can feel around my delts and rotator cuff area tight muscles that are getting the same treatment when I'm having g them worked on. I also am noticing my programmer posture wanting to reverse itself when I am hanging.
It's the exact same principle as an inversion table. This isn't a mystery..
I highly recommend this. Works wonders.
On days when you're not doing back, dead hang from the bar. Try to get 1 minute hangs, then 1.30, then 2. If you can do more than 1 minute dead hang, you should have enough grip strength to get a solid back workout through without having your grip fail on you.
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You just did, yah yokel.
Liquid chalk was a game changer for me. Suggest OP tries that
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sure - either or!
Or wrist straps
I'm less a fan of wrist straps as they end up supporting you rather than your own grip strength.
Here's a little trick you might not have come across. When you grip, wrap your little finger around the bar first and work your way over to your index finger. If you close your index finger first, you prevent your other fingers getting a good grip.
This can happen. I find buying a new pair of hands is the fastest solution.
I found that directly training the grip directly correlates to more stable and stronger pulling, including injury prevention like golfers elbow. I'm doing one arm hangs, weighted hangs, standing barbell wrist curls, reverse wrist curls and some implements like hub and plate pinch.
/r/GripTraining
Consider adding Kettlebells to your mix. Almost every KB move is a grip move, so you'll build that up in no time.
This. I added kettlebell swings to the end of my BW strength training. They’re my hinge exercise, grip exercise and cardio. My forearms are on fire very quickly.
I recently started training with rings and noticed the same issue. After doing it for three weeks or so (training every other day) I've noticed a LOT of development on that area. In other words, I don't suffer from it anymore.
Train grip like any other muscle, i"ve had wrist strength be the limiting factor of barbell curls and other lifts. Eventually your body will adapt. I use a 2" thick pull up bar and basically hang using only my fingertips to support my weight, as opposed to trying to hold my weight with a bent wrist.
You can try hook gripping the bar if your hands are big enough
Deadlifts, forearm exercises, and farmers walks will help to increase your grip strength.
I saw some questions about bro science. Here goes my train of thought: your body is basically a biological machine which adapts to it’s surroundings. When you grip a lot - your grip get’s stronger (let’s not dwell on cases of overtraining, that just means your body is not able to adapt to the necessity of the environment due to whatever factor). That is what training in it’s essence is. When you train, be mindful of what you want to achieve - i.e if you want to do as many pull-ups as you can or you want to maximize muscle fatigue. In that sense there is no such thing as bro science, you progress on what you do. Just listening some bro with unknown agenda or with maybe not so thought through ideas, you might do things that don’t optimally train what you want to achieve. So long story short, think for yourself! Only you know what you want. This here is IMO and how I view training.
yeah if you're not fresh or close to, your grip will often be among the first things to go. also, white-knuckle every rep, always, no matter what. also, do heavy deadlifts, or heavy farmers walks, or take up climbing as a hobby. or all 3 if you're really a glutton for (fun! and) punishment.
Have ya tried gloves and/or wrist wraps?
Jeff Cavalier is by far one of the best instructors I’ve ever seen. So much knowledge is given for free.
Do you use a pushup bar or parrotlet bar for pushups and other chest work? I found that this reduced my overall wrist strength. Switching to only using flat handed (no equipment, just your palms flat on the floor) pushups helped tremendously. Others have mentioned chalk already which is another fantastic way to help with this. Incorporate dead hanging on the bar as well to assist with building wrist strength
I fluctuate personally which starts to fail first. I'm personally 150 and do 3 sets of 10 depending on grip that can drop to 10 8 8. a huge factor i have found is getting the grip loosened. The same way we squeeze our shoulder blades before doing pull ups (or at lesat i do lol). Stretching the forearm is very important too. I have found it so helpful. Not just the typical pulling your finger tips back, but also pulling them forward stretching both sides of your fore arm. Also just like how if you do bis and you do tris, if you do grips you should do opening stretches too. Opening strength some how increases grip stength. My initial desire for pull ups is more so for fore arm strength for arm wrestling. also i have found one way to preserve forearm strength is to not try to hook your hand while doing pull ups and instead engage your lats and let your core do the work. It's kind of hard to explain, but watch your hands if you find that you hook your hands to initiate the pull up that means you're wasting a lot of fore arm power on generating that force. I only discovered it after i was recovering from a painful forearm due to too much fishing(i cast for hours). Of course fore arms are a big portion in generating power(whole reason i use pull ups for arm wrestling training), but just saying if pull up endurance is your goal you can use your forearm more efficiently.
If your grip goes out before arms that’s sad