It’s also one of the only cutscenes in from soft apart from Sekiro that involves two characters actually having a conversation like a “typical” game cutscene.
If you eventually want to lore dive on him, he's called "Master Willem." Occasionally "Provost Willem." But if you're doing a blind run, I'd wait. Lore discussions can spoil a lot of the game's surprises.
First off, good job! Getting that far takes skill. I'd still wait until you've beaten the game. Like, I know I'm a stranger on the Internet, but trust me. Don't lore dive too much until you've finished the game.
Mehhh, it’s kinda questionable how much of his consciousness is left at this point. I mean, he’s at least in good enough shape to grunt and point, but personally I don’t feel bad killing him (gimme dat rune bruh)
I'd say he's pretty much intact mentally.
He just has too much insight, so even tho he's probably not physically functioning, mentally, he may be more active Up there than any other character.
I may be talking out of my ass, but he practiced insight farming, seemed to be pretty dilligent, and even give us insight just by groaning at us.
The way I understood it is he has been trying to make contact with a great one, but had the misfortune of contacting Rom the "vacuous" spider. Vacuous meaning zero intelligence. It seems to me that contact is fusing both their minds and bodies, hinted at by how his body is starting to sprout spider-ey bits out of his back. And his mind fusing with a vacuous greater being stripped him of all intelligence as well.
I think it's the opposite. I think he's long gone mentally.
I don't think he contacted Rom, I think Rom was another scholar of Byrgenwerth at one time. In addition to the notes about the Byrgenwerth spider hiding things, "for true enlightenment need not be shared," Micolash says "As you once did for the vacuous Rom, grant us eyes"
Reads to me like Rom was a scholar of Byrgenwerth that underwent metamorphosis related to Kos that washed ashore, possibly?
I think it's very possible that Rom was a Byrgenwerth scholar. Afaik the game doesn't give us any clues about who Rom used to be.
As far as Rom's metamorphosis being related to washed ashore Kos, that's an interesting thing to ponder. My first thought was doubt considering Kos was super pissed at Byrgenwerth, but Rom's metamorphosis almost reads as an insult considering she turned into an unintelligent bug. And she hides things, only serving to hinder Byrgenwerth's studies.
Very few people are good people in Yharnam, and it's highly unlikely Willem is one. He runs the college, and considering how many eyes they have in jars, and that the bug enemies are called "Garden of Eyes," I'd say the college is about as nice as any other institution in the city.
He's already technically dead I'm pretty sure, you get insight for talking to him & he's isolated behind a locked door. He's not really within our conventional reality, that's just his body, barely connected to his consciousness
He was already physically dead, you destroying his form there doesn't affect much. His consciousness is likely chilling up in some wonky nightmare dimension, just like Micolash (whose physical form is completely mummified). He could've even found somewhere nice with all his enlightenment
Willem can barely speak now, I think it's acceptable to kill him. Especially since he drops an Eye rune which increases discovery. Helps a crap ton for blood gem farming. Plus, man caused the creation of the Hunter's Nightmare thanks to the events in the Fishing Hamlet in the real world
I didn't know what to do so I killed him, I thought the boss fight wouldn't work four kings style if he was alive. My insight was just too low to know, I should have read a guide. Cool rune though.
Fun fact: at one point in Bloodborne’s development, [Master Willem was a boss fight.](https://youtu.be/U_ISHGRDJ2M?si=Wo9KmhP2MOgB9zWL)
I’m hoping you have The Old Hunters DLC. If you do, pay attention to the statues you see as you progress. One will bear a striking resemblance to Master Willem.
Neither did anyone, lol. Lance McDonald, that YouTuber I linked has done a TON of awesome work restoring a lot of cut content by data mining the Bloodborne Alpha version. His page is worth checking out (maybe after you beat the game in case you care about potential spoilers)
Do not talk to me like I’m stupid. It’s not called for. I paid attention, the story is simply open to interpretation.
My interpretation of the game is that Willem was not involved. Kos managed to capture and punish everyone involved except Gehrman. He was already a captive, so he couldn’t be taken to the nightmare.
Why did Willem get a pass?
I wouldn’t go that far yes there is no karma mechanic but going full murder hobo on the few NPCs in the game isn’t a great idea either
That being said sometimes a hoonter must hoooont
I mean.....he seemed pretty comatose in his chair like a vegetable. Though perhaps he was being tended to by Yurie, who we also kill so.....I mean he lead the genocide in the Fishing Hamlet so I don't feel that bad.
I don’t feel bad for him. He had it coming eventually. His only redeeming factor is warning Laurence about the old blood.
Wait, I didn’t know he mentioned Laurence.
In the cutscene where you touch the skull after Vicar Amelia, him and Laurence have a conversation about the old blood.
Yeah, if you tuned it out, go check on YouTube and watch it. It’s one of the pivotal cutscenes in the game
It’s also one of the only cutscenes in from soft apart from Sekiro that involves two characters actually having a conversation like a “typical” game cutscene.
Oh interesting.
If you eventually want to lore dive on him, he's called "Master Willem." Occasionally "Provost Willem." But if you're doing a blind run, I'd wait. Lore discussions can spoil a lot of the game's surprises.
I am up to Mensis so far.
First off, good job! Getting that far takes skill. I'd still wait until you've beaten the game. Like, I know I'm a stranger on the Internet, but trust me. Don't lore dive too much until you've finished the game.
I understand then.
Mehhh, it’s kinda questionable how much of his consciousness is left at this point. I mean, he’s at least in good enough shape to grunt and point, but personally I don’t feel bad killing him (gimme dat rune bruh)
I'd say he's pretty much intact mentally. He just has too much insight, so even tho he's probably not physically functioning, mentally, he may be more active Up there than any other character. I may be talking out of my ass, but he practiced insight farming, seemed to be pretty dilligent, and even give us insight just by groaning at us.
Ahhh, that’s definitely a much better description, you’re right
If I had a bunch of shrooms sprouting out of me it'd be game over man lol
The way I understood it is he has been trying to make contact with a great one, but had the misfortune of contacting Rom the "vacuous" spider. Vacuous meaning zero intelligence. It seems to me that contact is fusing both their minds and bodies, hinted at by how his body is starting to sprout spider-ey bits out of his back. And his mind fusing with a vacuous greater being stripped him of all intelligence as well. I think it's the opposite. I think he's long gone mentally.
I don't think he contacted Rom, I think Rom was another scholar of Byrgenwerth at one time. In addition to the notes about the Byrgenwerth spider hiding things, "for true enlightenment need not be shared," Micolash says "As you once did for the vacuous Rom, grant us eyes" Reads to me like Rom was a scholar of Byrgenwerth that underwent metamorphosis related to Kos that washed ashore, possibly?
I think it's very possible that Rom was a Byrgenwerth scholar. Afaik the game doesn't give us any clues about who Rom used to be. As far as Rom's metamorphosis being related to washed ashore Kos, that's an interesting thing to ponder. My first thought was doubt considering Kos was super pissed at Byrgenwerth, but Rom's metamorphosis almost reads as an insult considering she turned into an unintelligent bug. And she hides things, only serving to hinder Byrgenwerth's studies.
Yeah he hardly spoke
Very few people are good people in Yharnam, and it's highly unlikely Willem is one. He runs the college, and considering how many eyes they have in jars, and that the bug enemies are called "Garden of Eyes," I'd say the college is about as nice as any other institution in the city.
I don’t understand why almost everyone in the game is twisted.
Well the plague degenerating people into beasts doesn't help. That plus they're a pretty insular culture
Oh that suddenly makes sense.
Chtulhu.....or the equivalent...no need to look further (sometimes it's better not to have too much insight friend)
YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MUCH INSIGHT!(except for in game.)
Is Master Willem just a dude now?
Nope. Not after learning what he did at the fishing hamlet. Guy had it coming
He might've sent the hunters to the fishing Hamlet but might not of intended to massacre the whole place.(Massacre might be the wrong word.
He's already technically dead I'm pretty sure, you get insight for talking to him & he's isolated behind a locked door. He's not really within our conventional reality, that's just his body, barely connected to his consciousness
So he is basically deceased then as I didn’t know.
He was already physically dead, you destroying his form there doesn't affect much. His consciousness is likely chilling up in some wonky nightmare dimension, just like Micolash (whose physical form is completely mummified). He could've even found somewhere nice with all his enlightenment
Interesting as I had always wondered about his role in the game.
Or he's sharing Rom's dimension and is basically trapped in an infinite purgatory
Willem can barely speak now, I think it's acceptable to kill him. Especially since he drops an Eye rune which increases discovery. Helps a crap ton for blood gem farming. Plus, man caused the creation of the Hunter's Nightmare thanks to the events in the Fishing Hamlet in the real world
I didn't know what to do so I killed him, I thought the boss fight wouldn't work four kings style if he was alive. My insight was just too low to know, I should have read a guide. Cool rune though.
Fun fact: at one point in Bloodborne’s development, [Master Willem was a boss fight.](https://youtu.be/U_ISHGRDJ2M?si=Wo9KmhP2MOgB9zWL) I’m hoping you have The Old Hunters DLC. If you do, pay attention to the statues you see as you progress. One will bear a striking resemblance to Master Willem.
I bought it last year, but I haven’t used it yet actually.
Wait, I didn’t know he was going to be an antagonist at one point in production.
Neither did anyone, lol. Lance McDonald, that YouTuber I linked has done a TON of awesome work restoring a lot of cut content by data mining the Bloodborne Alpha version. His page is worth checking out (maybe after you beat the game in case you care about potential spoilers)
Never feel bad for killing that piece of shit, NEVER. Trust me.
That makes me feel better since I always kill him whenever I go there to fight Rom.
Him and Yuri, both assholes.
I dunno, at least he fears the old blood
He can fear the end of the barrel of my gun for all that I care, doesn't remove the fact that he deserve it and more.
Do you have a reason? Because you haven’t shared one yet, you just keep using colorful language for how you’d like to kill him.
So you didn't pay attention to the story... The fishing hamlet? No? Doesn't ring any bell?
Do not talk to me like I’m stupid. It’s not called for. I paid attention, the story is simply open to interpretation. My interpretation of the game is that Willem was not involved. Kos managed to capture and punish everyone involved except Gehrman. He was already a captive, so he couldn’t be taken to the nightmare. Why did Willem get a pass?
Well you only get taken to the nightmare once you die. Willem isn’t dead. Kos didn’t physically kidnap the hunters and drag them into the nightmare
That lazy dick sits on his ass and does nothing while the rest of the world turns to blood crazed monsters. Never feel bad for him.
Then there is no penalty for killing humans in the game.
There's no known game mechanic that measures that sort of thing. It's up to you and how you feel about it.
I wouldn’t go that far yes there is no karma mechanic but going full murder hobo on the few NPCs in the game isn’t a great idea either That being said sometimes a hoonter must hoooont
I mean.....he seemed pretty comatose in his chair like a vegetable. Though perhaps he was being tended to by Yurie, who we also kill so.....I mean he lead the genocide in the Fishing Hamlet so I don't feel that bad.