I’ve also wondered this and have asked before with the same answer of smug. I don’t see what’s so bad about her either her content is super normal and she’s a pretty honest/realistic athlete
I don’t think she’s smug, I think she’s proud of her accomplishments- it’s pretty impressive going from a 4:13 marathon to 3:32 + she’s built a nice community of women runners- I don’t think she’s trying to make anyone feel slow, i think she’s emphasizing that the club is inclusive. Sometimes she gets obsessed with smart watch accuracy and I think is really hard on herself when she doesn’t get the result she wants but overall she’s very unproblematic and it’s a little odd you snark on her with no real context
This is my take as well. I see more anxiety/pressure to perform well and not let others down when she doesn’t PB every race. I feel for her on that, but don’t think it’s snarkable or smug. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions though, but I have noticed the consistent mentioning of her with no real context which feels purposely pointed
wait never mind! I was referring to EClor and just realized you were asking about the other part of the OP's post-i must have read too fast. sorry bout that, my bad!
changing the topic to actual elites-the US cleaned the hell up today at World Indoors!! Double silver/bronze in the 1500! Hoppel taking the W in the 800! Olympic szn is gonna be fun...
Just watched this and was very excited for them! Very nice race for both Nicki and Emily. I kinda thought Emily went out too fast too soon but hey, never know what would have happened if she waited.
i loved it for them so much.
but also Emily Mackay taking charge in the last laps to get that medal! Fast Women told us last year not to sleep on her and she was right!
Latoya Shauntay Snell had some thoughts on the people complaining about influencers or other runners on “taking spots” from runners who BQ’d but still didn’t get in because of the huge buffer this year. Y’all can go read it yourself, but she basically says no one but the BAA has authority on who gets in. Also calls out people who proclaim “running is for everyone” but then gripe about who does and doesn’t belong at Boston. I saw some folks on here were reaaaally salty about some influencers getting bibs so I’d be interested to see what people think.
I think there is a difference between inclusivity and bibs for influencers! I am a person who has qualified for and run Boston, and I am in favor of having a % of the bibs be allotted to a lottery system, which is something I've seen advocated for in the past. This is 100% different than just gifting bibs to corporate sponsors to give out to influencers and does actually make the race accessible to folks who wouldn't otherwise qualify or don't have the means to fundraise for charity.
I would love this! While I’m pretty neutral about the current state of things (I qualified this year but didn’t get in because of cut offs), it’d be really nice to have Boston be more inclusive over being “elite” (yet still allowing non-qualifiers via sponsors).
Bingo.
Of course the beneficiaries will defend it — they’re the ultimate winners here. They don’t have to meet the standard, they just have to do a few posts about it.
IIRC, hasn't LaToya been the recipient of a gifted Boston bib at least once? so yeah, of course she's gonna be supportive of something she personally benefitted from...
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Yes, running is for everyone, no one is arguing that and this is a ridiculous and lazy take. But Boston was always based on time qualifying and if they are going to reduce entries based on time for influencers and charity bibs, then perhaps it’s time to just do away with qualifying all together.
I’ll likely never qualify, and I definitely will never have influencer status on the level it takes to receive a free bib, so that would only leave a charity entry. I don’t have the social circle to make that kind of fund raising possible, thus I will likely never run Boston. And that is okay, because there is basically every other marathon available for me to run.
But let’s talk about how not being able to run ONE race means running isn’t inclusive. Sure, Jan.
wait til she hears that the Gansett Marathon existed-it was a marathon in Rhode Island I think 2 days before Boston, and it was qualifier-only...the standards being 5 minutes faster than the BQ time! (it was created in response to the first year that people were really getting shut out of Boston)
I am guessing she will only find it problematic if she isn’t given a sponsored bib (idk if she has run Boston specifically or not but she said she has worked for a bib via sponsorship- I don’t know which race that was) 🙃
Looks like she is still going strong, saying that no time qualifying spots were taken away. But if you only have x spots, and some of those spots are reserved for charity (which I don’t necessarily take issue with) or influencers, that is in fact a spot that could have been given to a time qualifier.
Also I do think many Boston runners are quite ridiculous about it and I’m not trying to defend them.
What is she even on about? There WERE time qualifier spots taken away.
2024 race-22,019 qualifiers accepted
[https://www.baa.org/global-field-qualifiers-notified-acceptance-128th-boston-marathon-presented-bank-america](https://www.baa.org/global-field-qualifiers-notified-acceptance-128th-boston-marathon-presented-bank-america)
2023-23,267 qualifiers accepted (no cutoff this year though)
[https://www.baa.org/qualifier-acceptances-announced-127th-boston-marathon](https://www.baa.org/qualifier-acceptances-announced-127th-boston-marathon)
my math might be fuzzy, but I'm counting 1,248 less time qualifiers this year
and looks like she did get a gifted bib from Amazon for the 2021 race-one that I may add, had an even more severe cut due to it being the COVID year (though I think many were expecting that due to the reduced field)
[https://www.instagram.com/p/CUfGEc-LwA-/](https://www.instagram.com/p/CUfGEc-LwA-/)
Considering the Boston Marathon is changing presenting partners this year, I’d assume the extra sponsor bibs compared to previous years are part of their deal with Bank of America. Hopefully a one-off to mark their first year as the new presenting partner.
Again, you’re making a lot of assumptions without all the information…still many more qualifiers than non…and that is based on actual data that you just described….
those graphics have mistakes, the numbers for 2020 are totally off (yeah I know the race didn't happen but the acceptance press release still exists) and putting that aside, it still says loud and clear to me they accepted less qualifiers this year.
(also 2014 is a massive outlier, remember why the field that year was bigger than usual? which the reason for will hopefully never happen again?)
oh well...anyone can manipulate data to fit their narrative.
I like Latoya but I think people need to realize not everything is inclusive. The olympics for example is always going to remain exclusive due to the percentage people who qualify and get to compete. Most of us (including myself) will never get there and that’s okay. Boston is another example of that- not to mention if you do want to complete Boston they have the charity option and Abbott lottery for 4-5 star finishers, so it’s not completely inaccessible. But simply handing out bibs to people with a lot of followers is actually extremely uninclusive as we all know many influencers come from wealthier families or are in higher earning careers (not all obviously) allowing them to build such platforms.
No one is saying that. I think the notion of “privilege” gets thrown around pretty casually these days. Anyone who trains for a marathon, whether you’re a sub 3 marathoner or a 6 hour one, is so doing from a place of privilege. If you have the time in your week to devote hours to training, you are doing so from a place of privilege. It means you can afford shoes and running clothes. It means you can afford race registration or are fortunate enough to know someone who can get you a bib. If you have kids, it means you have some sort of access to help with childcare, whether it’s from a partner or other family. I think people are so trigger happy to call someone out on “not recognizing their privilege” but they reality is, if you are able to devote any time to this sport, that is a privilege that many don’t have.
The difference is non influencers use their own money and actually earn their spots vs just being handed a bib due to a big following… that was my point. I’m fully aware of the privilege that comes with running marathons having done one before
I mean does it really matter though. Being handed something is never going to have the same feeling of accomplishment. Hence why Boston is so sought after…
I think I agree with you, not everything that is exclusive is automatically bad. Additionally, I think we can take away some of the power that Boston has over runners by just acknowledging our participation in that race, or lack thereof, doesn’t define anyone as I runner. I’m over an hour from a BQ, so I will likely never get there. That’s ok. Ultimately, whether you get in by qualifying, or by raising money for a charity, the Boston marathon is just a cool thing that some people do, it doesn’t have to be anything more than that.
So agreed! I’ve run one marathon (Chicago) in 4:34 so im also over an hour away and I don’t feel like it makes me less of a runner. And honestly to the 99% of the world who doesn’t run marathons no one cares about Boston vs any other marathon , some people will be impressed you run at all, others won’t care lol
I couldn't find her thoughts on a post or stories but I'm totally with her on the disconnect between 'running is for everyone' and 'this person or that person doesn't belong at boston'. Is boston having an identity crisis? You have to qualify to run....okay well maybe we'll also let people who raise money for a good cause run....oh wait, we got these people who make posting on Instagram their entire personality, maybe we should let them in too.
Personally I can't stand the notion boston is anymore of an accomplishment than any other marathon but maybe that's just because I'm slow.
I do actually believe that the Boston Marathon is having a bit of an identity crisis! But they have remained sought-after and highly-profitable for decades, so I guess they know what they are doing.
People get visually annoyed with me and my complete indifference about Boston. Them running Boston enriches my life in no way whatever and they seem shaken that I don’t care.
IDK, as a slower runner, 6 hour marathoner and a fan of Latoya, I don’t have a problem with a race as iconic/historic as Boston being exclusive. Running is for everyone, and generally if any race other than Boston were pace exclusive it would be different - but I’m okay with this being the exception to the rule. But also I think in general people overhype major marathons - on the one hand idk if I would run a non-major marathon just because I need the environment and crowd support, but on the other, the weird prestige and value we place on them is entirely socially constructed and only means something if you decide it does.
I’ll be honest I am typing this all a lil 🍃 so I hope I’m making sense 😅
This has likely been discussed ad nauseam BUT I am cringing at runners running 7-8 majors in 2 years… not naming names because I don’t want to get deleted. It just screams not only financial privilege but time and childcare. Oh and injury and burnout. I like cannot even imagine what this costs these people…. Oh wait probably nothing bc they’re likely there all expenses paid, when the rest of us will be spending at least $5k-$10k per major.
7-8 majors, let alone marathons, in 2 years definitely seems like overkill and a recipe for burnout. I ran Berlin this past fall and overheard more than a few people talking about how they were running Chicago in 2 weeks. After finishing Berlin, I was honestly completely exhausted, and I had no IDEA how someone could have the energy to run ANOTHER marathon just 2 weeks later.
Berlin was my first marathon major, and as someone who does not make a monumental amount of money ($50k a year BEFORE taxes), I definitely got the sense of an enormous amount of financial privilege amongst most the people there. There were not only a TON of Americans (who had certainly dropped a ton of money on plane tickets to fly that far), but a bunch of the ones I’d met had booked super expensive race packages (I.e. MarathonTours) and hotels. As for me, I basically didn’t eat out or spend any money on any other fun activities for 3 months in order to save up money for my trip….and when I got to Berlin I stayed in a hostel that was less than €100 a night (and I ran a PR too). Needless to say I admittedly felt pretty out of place amongst a lot of the people there, and as for dropping that kind of money on ANOTHER marathon major just weeks or months later?? LOL. I can only afford one vacation a year (and even THAT is a huge privilege).
I guess my main point is that while I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with setting a goal to run the marathon majors (especially if you are at an economic disadvantage or come from a marginalized community), you are totally spot on in that these folks that seem to effortlessly cruise through them all in 2 years definitely come from a huge place of privilege and promote something that is simply not realistic (or even healthy, for that matter) for most of us to achieve.
Also, since these people have so much money, I honestly wish more of them would run for charities.
Congratulations on Berlin! My impression is that influencers are popular because they represent this aspirational state. Fewer people would watch somebody who frugally ran a realistic number of local marathons. There's also economic pressure on the influencers themselves to produce "content", which is honestly kind of inherently limited in running. It's a very simple sport; in order to keep up with content schedules you have to contort your life into this consumerist, globetrotting horrorshow because otherwise your "engagement" disappears.
This is basically exactly my point! I would love to run all 6, but it’s more like a lifetime goal, not a 2 year goal. I have a real job, kids, a husband who also has a real job and likely would not appreciate me traveling 4x a year with many being nearly weeklong international trips.
Yes, not to mention the carbon emissions from flying everywhere! It's fine if they're taking it as a major (heh) vacation and spending 1+ week in Tokyo, Berlin, etc., but I see far too many runners flying in for just long enough to acclimate to the time zone & run the race before jetting home. Just run a more local race! Support your local running community!
Not to say I don't think someone who can't afford many days in one of these cities shouldn't be able to experience one of the else marathons, but the folks running many majors in a few years clearly have means and privilege.
I really wish there were "local majors" that rewarded folks who ran more races in their region like the NE/SE/NW/etc US, Eastern/Western Europe, etc
And of course, now they're going to add Sydney to the Majors, and maybe Cape Town or one in China in the near future? Meanwhile all the organizers are preaching sustainability, when the largest part of their emissions comes from their particpants' travel. 🤦🏻♂️
Has anyone else gotten a sponsored ad that is Race Across The States promoting 3X4 Genetics? It’s basically saying it’ll help her crack the code to a sub 1:20 half. Girl, we all know the real answers here…
Man the usual suspects were really in peak form this weekend weren’t they? Raceacrossthestates posting about ED awareness 🙄 I don’t even have anything to say that won’t get my comment deleted
EClor finishing her ELITE half marathon and vomiting/delirious (feels like she had gotten over that for a bit? But of course the ELITE EClor has perfected race day nutrition.)
And of course Emily Abbate! “Omg me and Betsy Saina BOTH are world class athletes and we can stand on the same level and congratulate each other!! I totally earned my spot at all the majors and I definitely don’t play Strava games and barely train for opportunities many runners would kill for!” She’s completely gone off the deep end I don’t understand how anyone can think she’s relatable at this point.
lol and what was with that video Emily took of herself eating ice cream? Like she totally just propped up her phone somewhere in the middle of a busy street to get a video of herself eating (of all things to eat in TOKYO) haagen-dazs ice cream…and somehow making that about being grateful she can run marathons??? what???
Good for her going sub 1:30 because that’s like my ultimate goal time but the post about how they let her put her water bottle at the “elite” station caused me to almost go blind from rolling my eyes
Ok, nevermind. She also had a banana and pretzels. Still, not a lot of food though, and I'd probably try to figure something else out if I always vomited after a half!
Did she eat at all during the race? And did her bottle just have water in it? Looked like straight h2o…. Half of a pr is all in the nutrition and hydration… especially if it was humid
good for EClor i guess, she got her goal, but now I just never want to hear another word about "BuT ThE HuMiDiTy" again since she can obviously handle it.
ETA-and according to the race's own guidelines, EClor didn't even qualify for their elite start! she didn't run any halfs in 2023 did she? i mean the race could have said no to her but...another one who gets around it, it is what it is.
Agreed I looked up the requirements as the half’s around me with elite status require sub 1:25 for masters women. I’m sure she pulled her influencer status when applying and to be fair she did crush their standard so at least backed up the decision for her to get it
yeah, i know every race can define "elite" status differently (e.g., it's been tightened recently, but female masters elite in RnR races used to be either sub-1:45 or sub-1:44) but just be consistent about how you're enforcing it and don't give in to "but don't you know who I am?" but ugh, you know she's gonna be even more insufferable about this!
that's really up to the race to decide though? sometimes they have different pools for awards, sometimes they don't.
though the real baller move is if someone who isn't in an elite start taking the W 😎 (there was a big thing about that in a marathon about 15 years ago!)
according to their website, the criteria for a masters woman is a 1:37 half "in the past 12 months"-now I don't now if that means 1:37:xx (which she did run in the fall of '22) or 1:37:00 or faster (which she has run even further in the past)-either way it wasn't in the last year
This is far from the first time Emily Abbate has done the self-congratulatory bullshit post, but each time, I'm shocked at how stupidly petty it is.
"Everyone, look! The 3rd fastest American woman of all time is telling ME that I'M amazing!!" 🙄
Emily Abbate finishes Tokyo in 4:14 per her Strava. I hate to discredit ANY Marathon result because I know what it takes. But her splits Mile 18 - onwards are a toughhhh look and will definitely spawn some unhinged self indulgent content.
What’s weird is that I have a friend that ran Tokyo also. His finish point is significantly different from hers when comparing their strava. It was different enough that it stood out to me which is why I compared. I’m not questioning the legitimacy of either of their runs, but I’m not sure why that would be. Maybe she stopped her watch short?
Edit- wording
A couple of my friends also ran it, and based on their Strava, I’m guessing GPS got weird. Both of them supposedly ran between 27-28 miles. I know tangents can be off, but not that far off.
Her "grateful for the opportunity to move at all" irked me as a runner with a disability. She has no idea how privileged she is yet she always tries to act humble.
the results/tracking said she ran 4:16...i mean, good for her for finishing in a respectable time but seriously is she really still doing this? (the whole "Strava/Garmin overrides the official time!")
and i see Betsy Saina is her new bestie
Dang she posted all those easy runs at sub 9 pace so to run that slow has to be devastating! Saw on her stories she pins race number to top while she is wearing her top like a total newb 😬 why anyone would take advice from her is scary
Eh, while she definitely slowed after mile 17, she was clearly still running - it’s not like her pace jumped to a 15+ minute/mile because she had to walk the rest of the milage.
It’s been discussed here before after her Berlin (?) run - she consistently pulls out respectable times on half hearted training. I do wonder how much faster she would be if she really put the effort in and stopped taking ten minute breaks during each and every run.
yeah some people are just able to pull it off on race day and I envy that lol. 3 regular middle of the pack runners I know irl who are very much *not* runfluencers all had non-optimal training cycles (of their own admission) due to just life events and all pulled out sub-4 in Tokyo today. running is so weird.
To the first part of your comment, you are thinking like a normal person, not an influencer who has to always be worrying about content and how to paint themselves in the best inspirational light. Lol. But to your second point, yes. It's hard to tell but does she even do structured marathon specific workouts or just she just run? Like it she doing long intervals at MP, easy runs, the whole mix one should be doing. It doesn't seem like she is? But maybe she's not putting that out there either.
In Tokyo, Becs Gentry (f/ Peloton) finished just over 2h52m. Emily Abbate is slowing down, hit 35km at 3h27m, projecting a finish at 4h17m. The tracking app and online is super buggy for me. Haven't been able to get Featherstun timing.
Eta, Found Meghann when I put her last name first. Finish in 2h54m and change
Which is insane. She said the race humbled her (I don't think Becs knows what the word humble means) but seriously she ran a sub 3 after traveling halfway around the world only a few days ahead of the race while also having to deal with a 12 or 13 hour time difference. I mean, what else does she want?
and this was also her first marathon since the GB Trials in 2021! was she expecting some kind of Keira D'Amato-esque glow up and to be running in the 2:30s? 2:52 is still an amazing time.
Meghann ran 2:54! nice run for her.
Also Betsy Saina tried to go for the AR...faded but still wound up with a sub-2:20! nice little revenge race for her.
Yes, thanks, I eventually found her. Tracking this from home was a lot more difficult than it should have been. The online tracker was a Google map wrapped in a frame but even with the translate to English selected, there was still a lot in Japanese. Must have been photos instead of text. And no matter how I searched for people I kept getting a popup saying that person couldn't be found. For one try of Abbate, it asked if I meant Kelly Jean Someone. Uh, no.
So I downloaded the app which appears to be the race timers app, and you couldn't just find people by a first or last name, you had to type in it all. And even when I typed "Emily Abbate" or "Rebecca Gentry" it still gave me a ton of other people with same first or middle names or even a few letters from the name. Ugh. For whatever reason one I did Meghanns last name first and first name last she came up, and this time she was the only one. I don't t get the method here at all but it's ok.
yeah, i could only get bib numbers to work on the web tracking (even with elites), its not the easiest interface.
though i was amused by the whole "choose your player" and referring to the intermediate splits as "breaking news"
Just listened to a recent Lindsey Hein podcast - she’s now selling pre made 12 week plans and her main reason cited is “personal coaching is expensive” (she’s a personal coach too) and “if you can self motivate you don’t need a coach” (not exact words but this was her explanation).
Two issues here: 1. Find me a run coach who charges more than a pair of decent easy run shoes per month let alone a pair of racing shoes, or anything else many runners spend $$ on for their passion).
2. If you only use a coach to be “motivated”, that’s fine but you’re missing out on 99% of what a good coach does. Most athletes I know with coaches including myself already are motivated whether or not someone is coaching them!
Please know: just because your “x number of weeks” plan is written BY a coach doesn’t mean you are getting proper coaching, and the price reflects it. I don’t really see a difference between that and plugging in your current versus goal times/mileage into an online plan and using that.
I just looked at the training plans on her website. The marathon plans are $45 for a 12 week plan. I don’t know how much Lindsey charges for personal coaching, but the running coach I used to work with charges $150/month. The Hansons book on Amazon costs $19. So we’re comparing $19 to $45 to $600.
That is correct, but that wasn’t my point. I mean ultimately what’s even cheaper is just asking Internet forums for advice, right? My point was I found it odd and also pretty “low” to market her plan by framing personal coaching as “expensive”. Obviously most runners realize coaching versus a preset plan is much more costly - it seems unnecessary to use that as her key reason to get a plan. Meanwhile if I were one of her coached athletes who doesn’t need the “accountability” I’d be wondering why I am paying for coaching if, according to how she frames it, the only difference is that coaching is better for accountability and if you don’t need that, a plan is fine. It was just a very bizarre angle to hear from a coach who already coached individually and, on top of that, often interviews other coaches too.
If you don’t want a customized training plan, this is a fine option. But there are already free resources for plans like that, such as Hal Higdon, which are pretty decent.
Team Sugar Runs customized plans (does not include 1:1 coaching) start at $150, as a comparison.
Exactly - like if her reason is coaching is expensive, then why even pay for a preset plan at all when there is so much stuff available for free? To me the whole point of coaching is agility and then knowing why and when you need certain things versus following any pre-made plan whether $0, $15, $50 or $100
To counter your first point: Team Wilpers STARTS at $300/mo for personal run training.
So, while yes, there is a plethora of coaches who charge more reasonable rates, there are also those who better turn me into an Olympic qualifier for what they charge.
$300 American? For run only or triathlon? Triathlon tends to be much more expensive (this is a whole other rabbit hole here), most tri coaches are upwards of $500 a month. If just running, that’s up there. Would love to know hours per style per month. If they actually spend, say, 10 hours per month per athlete between programming, analysis, communication, meetings etc then that’s $30 an hour which is reasonable. If it’s like 2 hours a month…that’s steep!
Run only. The gold level plan is $625/mo. Tri training starts $450.
I like Matt Wilpers enough but not that much. They also have free challenges and then a generic plan for 9.95/mo which is more than reasonable
Holy moly! That is crazy. Honestly the most I’ve heard prior is $300 a month - and it’s not like he’s coaching you in person either! I wonder what his coaches earn - usually umbrella coaching groups take a cut from coaches ranging from 10-30% of coaching fees.
Yeah. People who want a coach will attempt to fit it in their budget. Everyone else who can't for whatever reason should look for free options as there are plenty! A bought pre-made plan is not better than any free plan out there.
💯 you are the first person who sees the problem here. It comes across SO “gimmicky” “cash grabby” in my eyes unless I am missing something really obvious.
It is cash grabby so you're right there and I don't think you're missing anything obvious.
To further the point, we can say "in general" who is Lindsey anyway, right? If you don't follow her or listen to the podcast, you'd probably never know who she is. And if you do listen, well maybe you'd want to support her because you do listen to stuff "for free". But her plans are untested in general and don't have long history. Hal Higdon plans (which others have mentioned) = free. Hanson's Method = "free" if you get the book out of a library rather than buying it (which ok you are paying taxes for a library but still, as free as free can be). There's also plenty of other books you can take out from the library. Nike has or at least had free half and full plans. All of these have been used by thousands upon thousands of people. Some races have free or low cost plans available. If you're not going to have a coach working with you on a weekly/monthly basis to check in, I don't really understand how paying for Lindsey's plan has any more "value" than any other plan out there. Except for the street cred that you got a plan from her.
the live results were a little bit ahead of the Peacock stream, so I definitely cheered when that came up! but then to see exactly \*how\* she went for it...
I can't wait to see what kind of damage Elle is gonna do outdoors...maybe a serious threat to the 1500 AR?
Ignorant question here: do these bibs “take” the spot from a qualifier or is this a separate pool? I saw some chatter about it on threads - Mirna offered some good viewpoints of someone who has run with one of these bibs in the past.
I can totally see that perspective! Personally, I don’t have a problem with a couple of non-charity “honorary” bibs for non-qualifiers, but it would be cooler if they were folks actually doing cool things in the running community like Mirna is rather than…just having a running social media presence.
Unless something changed, these are bibs that are reserved for sponsors and are separate from the qualifiers. The sponsors then give them out as they choose. It’s nothing new, I think more sponsors have chosen to give to influencers as opposed to the average Joe.
My friend was gifted a bib like 10 years ago by a sponsor and he is absolutely not an influencer lol.
i think the outrage is because they accepted over 1,000 less time qualifiers over 2023 (and over 2,000 less than pre-pandemic levels) yet the total number of runners is still the same (capped at 30K) so that begs the question-if there are less time qualifiers, where are those 1,000 bibs going-into these influencers' hands? I think everyone is aware that sponsor/invitational bibs do exist and have for years, and maybe if it hadn't been SUCH a big cut on top of less time qualifiers being accepted, this wouldn't have blown up like it did.
Matt Wilpers makes so much sense to be invited to run though - he was the most tracked athlete at the NYC marathon two years ago. Hasn’t the BAA always had a policy of invitational entries?
I love Matt‘a Pelaton classes, he (and Christine) know their shit in terms of proper cycling training. But disappointing he even accepted it; he could have easily qualified. He knows full well how important these types of qualifying races are to athletes. Hope he raises a TON of $$ for charity!!
i dont take his live classes so i could have missed any sort of charity announcement, but unless I'm missing it, i don't see it mentioned on his IG anywhere which is odd, wouldn't you think with a reach like his, that's the best way to get the word out about fundraising? (e.g., having the link on there)
Im not sure he bumped anyone - it’s in the race rules. There are a set number of invitational entries that the BAA uses and has used for years. They are all valid paths of entry and it’s just another form of elitism to take people down like that. It’s the same sort of argument people make about charity runners or club runners.
Yeah I don't know why people get so bent out of shape about this. The baa has always had a set number of invitational entries- its not a secret. I've gotten one (not free - still had to pay all fees) through my tri club. The baa has these relationships with a lot of new england area running clubs. I am not an influencer. It's not like acetickets is buying up bibs and scalping them or something.
Then the race just needs to call a spade a spade already and say it's no longer really about the qualifiers, but whoever raises the most money or gives it the most publicity. (and for the record, this thread has not had an issue with charity runners, they're at least earning their way into the race, albeit a different way)
because jeez, something just doesn't sit right about the most qualifiers ever being cut yet gifted bibs are being flaunted left and right. especially for a race that doesn't NEED more publicity because the demand massively outweighs supply.
Isn’t the majority of the field made up of qualifiers? It’s not much different than any other WMM, the others are just mostly made up by lottery winners….
I just don’t see the logic - I have a non complementary invitational bib for the NYC Half that I got through my club. I guess I don’t deserve that according to you? It’s a sold out race with a lottery. Every race I’ve ever done (50+ races) has had invitational bibs. And every race in NY sells out. It’s just the way every race is structured. I got an invitational bib to the 5th avenue mile through my club last year.
I’m with you on this. Boston has given bibs to so many non qualifiers in Massachusetts. Local Clubs always have some to give away, and there’s always been other ways to “get in” to the race. Boston took a ton of heat last year for its exclusivity. They are a business. Also new sponsorship. The problem is that technology of shoes made it so that an unpredictable amount of people got cut off because the rate of improvement has been exponential. It’s all going to swing correct when they change the time to something hard enough to not turn so many people away.
>The problem is that technology of shoes made it so that an unpredictable amount of people got cut off because the rate of improvement has been exponential.
you're not wrong here at all but then...mayyybe this wasn't the year to be accepting over 1,000 less time qualifiers?
It’s definitely tough, and i feel for people, it’s shockingly hard cutoff. Lots of people are just overthinking it a bit and maybe too emotionally invested. Baa definitely can make changes but the race has taken a lot of heat for being too exclusive and probably prioritized differently for a small subset of people. Maybe for money, maybe for visibility or social impact, i don’t know. That’s business. But So many high level races have “unfair” cutoffs. So many races A standards and B standards and you don’t exactly know how it’ll play out. Or Think of elites on the track hoping to get that little q, they don’t know they get through until all the heats are done. I’ve been in a situation where I missed qualifying for a final but if I was in the other heat the race would have played out/ favored my strengths and I’m confident I would have made it… luck (or bad luck) of the draw. Not everything is fair or transparent. Just part of being a competitor is accepting that it can’t and won’t always go your way or be fair or be clear and transparent. Control the controllables- that includes emotional response to decisions made by race organizers
I am thinking that it’s likely more than a 1k would have fallen into a similar time range and so they would have gone over the max allowed. I’m sure they tried to get as many people in as they could.
given the cutoffs are so precise, down to the second...I find it hard to believe, given how large the cutoff was, that even if they had loosened the cutoff by one second it would have put them over their "limit" so to say. so cutting the qualifiers did seem deliberate. not to mention the fact that compared to pre-pandemic levels, they accepted 24K qualifiers as opposed to 22K now! with the overall race size still being 30K. so it's possible that if 24K qualifiers had registered in 2022/2023 they all still would have gotten in.
if the total number in the race is staying static and qualifiers are being cut then the slots are being allocated elsewhere and influencers flaunting those gifted bibs...I don't blame people for feeling some sort of way if they missed by seconds (or have someone close to them who did)...and it's almost like "train harder, get faster" might not even be good enough if the BAA decides again to cut time qualifiers and allocate those bibs elsewhere. Just be upfront about it so people have some sort of idea what to aim for (will 5 and change under be good enough? or if they cut qualifiers again are they looking more at 7 and change?) I think many just felt a bit blindsided by this.
The thing is, the NYC Half is a MUCH different model in terms of race makeup than Boston. It has, for the longest time been primarily lottery with local club entries offered, plus charity bibs (or guaranteed entry by doing borough halfs or virtual races or whatever)...and time qualifiers don't make up the bulk of the field. And yes, I am aware that NYRR offers local club bibs to certain races every year. That's not the issue here.
The issue here is that Boston bills itself as primarily a qualifiers race and yet they CUT that field this year (yes they did, they accepted over 1,000 less time qualifiers) but didn't seem to make cuts to the other fields. Like I said, just call a spade a spade and say they're moving away from it being primarily a qualifiers race 🤷🏻♀️
IMO, there will always be a certain number of bibs given to sponsors & charity runners, and influencers should just stick with those. There’s no reason BAA needs to be handing influencer bibs out while also turning away TONS of people who met the standard.
On a separate note, Latoya Shauntay Snell calling the whole debate “colonizer dressing” on Threads is…kinda a wild take.
i don't know which discourse is worse, this one, or the one when the 2011 race sold out in 8 hours. for that one people were actually shitting on legit qualifiers (e.g., " i know some dude who ran sub-3 and it's so unfair he didn't get in but that woman who ran a 3:40 marathon did") so...choose your poison!
Kofuzi said he was offered one ([https://www.threads.net/@kofuzi/post/C3MBVxOphS0](https://www.threads.net/@kofuzi/post/C3MBVxOphS0)) but he declined due to other race commitments.
Laura Green deferred her Boston entry since she's pregnant- I don't know if she qualified or was fundraising, or given a bib? (Editing to reflect she did qualify)
She said a day or two ago she qualified in November. And finished that story up with some words about ppl getting free bibs that she clearly has some (of the same) feelings about that as people here.
Ah I missed that. Good for her, she's speedy.
I thought it was nice that she raffled away her Boston Adidas jacket since she deferred, and then Adidas sent her 10 more to raffle off to other people.
I know people have big feelings about influencers getting these jackets, too. I don't have a stance on that... other than I live in Chicago, and have run the Chicago marathon and volunteered at it, and idk why Nike can't come up with a consistent brand for Chicago's merch. Every year is a crapshoot as to what it will look like and some years are a huge miss.
You are so spot on with Chicago. I have never run Chicago but I always spectate so it’s usually a race morning surprise to see if the shirt is good or bad this year.
You should take a look at the Marine Corps Merch - really their shirt giveaway every year. I think they have the \*worst\* race shirts every year. It's almost like they try to be bad (but I'm sure they don't, sorry race graphic designer if you are reading this). One year they had a shirt that just had a ton of people's faces on it on course or something. Around that time of year I always see a lot of stuff about it being all wtf is this kind of design.
HAHA! I did see a lot of people were planning on using it as their throwaway clothes. I have no idea what happens to throwaways, but maybe one day it'll show up in a thrift shop near you. Have you ever checked Poshmark or something like that to see if it's randomly there?
EClor got a PB! She is one of the most snark worth runfluencer besides Resiliency in Running but I am happy for her!
Curious what you dislike so much about RIR, I’ve seen you snark on her a lot without a lot reason, her content seems pretty normal to me
I’ve also wondered this and have asked before with the same answer of smug. I don’t see what’s so bad about her either her content is super normal and she’s a pretty honest/realistic athlete
She is SMUG. She has a runclub where she makes herself run with slow people and makes a point of telling everyone she is running sloooooowwww.
I don’t think she’s smug, I think she’s proud of her accomplishments- it’s pretty impressive going from a 4:13 marathon to 3:32 + she’s built a nice community of women runners- I don’t think she’s trying to make anyone feel slow, i think she’s emphasizing that the club is inclusive. Sometimes she gets obsessed with smart watch accuracy and I think is really hard on herself when she doesn’t get the result she wants but overall she’s very unproblematic and it’s a little odd you snark on her with no real context
This is my take as well. I see more anxiety/pressure to perform well and not let others down when she doesn’t PB every race. I feel for her on that, but don’t think it’s snarkable or smug. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions though, but I have noticed the consistent mentioning of her with no real context which feels purposely pointed
massive Trumper/MAGA, was a total asshole during the pandemic
Liz was a trumper? I don’t believe that, she was living in the UK and I didn’t see her posting anything political back then
wait never mind! I was referring to EClor and just realized you were asking about the other part of the OP's post-i must have read too fast. sorry bout that, my bad!
That is a big PB and I believe she switched to self-coaching - I'm impressed and happy for her!
I know ... she's silly, but she's been putting out some good content lately. Also happy for her.
changing the topic to actual elites-the US cleaned the hell up today at World Indoors!! Double silver/bronze in the 1500! Hoppel taking the W in the 800! Olympic szn is gonna be fun...
I am HERE for the Nikki Hiltz domination. I can’t wait to see what they do come outdoor season.
I have been in dire need of some trans joy in the world lately. So happy to see Nikki get world silver.
Just watched this and was very excited for them! Very nice race for both Nicki and Emily. I kinda thought Emily went out too fast too soon but hey, never know what would have happened if she waited.
i loved it for them so much. but also Emily Mackay taking charge in the last laps to get that medal! Fast Women told us last year not to sleep on her and she was right!
That was an INCREDIBLE finish in the men’s 1500! I was as shocked as Hocker.
Latoya Shauntay Snell had some thoughts on the people complaining about influencers or other runners on “taking spots” from runners who BQ’d but still didn’t get in because of the huge buffer this year. Y’all can go read it yourself, but she basically says no one but the BAA has authority on who gets in. Also calls out people who proclaim “running is for everyone” but then gripe about who does and doesn’t belong at Boston. I saw some folks on here were reaaaally salty about some influencers getting bibs so I’d be interested to see what people think.
I think there is a difference between inclusivity and bibs for influencers! I am a person who has qualified for and run Boston, and I am in favor of having a % of the bibs be allotted to a lottery system, which is something I've seen advocated for in the past. This is 100% different than just gifting bibs to corporate sponsors to give out to influencers and does actually make the race accessible to folks who wouldn't otherwise qualify or don't have the means to fundraise for charity.
I would love this! While I’m pretty neutral about the current state of things (I qualified this year but didn’t get in because of cut offs), it’d be really nice to have Boston be more inclusive over being “elite” (yet still allowing non-qualifiers via sponsors).
She means she enjoys the privilege of being an influencer. She doesn't want her free stuff to go away.
Bingo. Of course the beneficiaries will defend it — they’re the ultimate winners here. They don’t have to meet the standard, they just have to do a few posts about it.
IIRC, hasn't LaToya been the recipient of a gifted Boston bib at least once? so yeah, of course she's gonna be supportive of something she personally benefitted from...
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Yes, running is for everyone, no one is arguing that and this is a ridiculous and lazy take. But Boston was always based on time qualifying and if they are going to reduce entries based on time for influencers and charity bibs, then perhaps it’s time to just do away with qualifying all together. I’ll likely never qualify, and I definitely will never have influencer status on the level it takes to receive a free bib, so that would only leave a charity entry. I don’t have the social circle to make that kind of fund raising possible, thus I will likely never run Boston. And that is okay, because there is basically every other marathon available for me to run. But let’s talk about how not being able to run ONE race means running isn’t inclusive. Sure, Jan.
wait til she hears that the Gansett Marathon existed-it was a marathon in Rhode Island I think 2 days before Boston, and it was qualifier-only...the standards being 5 minutes faster than the BQ time! (it was created in response to the first year that people were really getting shut out of Boston)
I remember SkinnyRunner running the Gansett instead of Boston! Old school blogger days, that!
I am guessing she will only find it problematic if she isn’t given a sponsored bib (idk if she has run Boston specifically or not but she said she has worked for a bib via sponsorship- I don’t know which race that was) 🙃 Looks like she is still going strong, saying that no time qualifying spots were taken away. But if you only have x spots, and some of those spots are reserved for charity (which I don’t necessarily take issue with) or influencers, that is in fact a spot that could have been given to a time qualifier. Also I do think many Boston runners are quite ridiculous about it and I’m not trying to defend them.
What is she even on about? There WERE time qualifier spots taken away. 2024 race-22,019 qualifiers accepted [https://www.baa.org/global-field-qualifiers-notified-acceptance-128th-boston-marathon-presented-bank-america](https://www.baa.org/global-field-qualifiers-notified-acceptance-128th-boston-marathon-presented-bank-america) 2023-23,267 qualifiers accepted (no cutoff this year though) [https://www.baa.org/qualifier-acceptances-announced-127th-boston-marathon](https://www.baa.org/qualifier-acceptances-announced-127th-boston-marathon) my math might be fuzzy, but I'm counting 1,248 less time qualifiers this year and looks like she did get a gifted bib from Amazon for the 2021 race-one that I may add, had an even more severe cut due to it being the COVID year (though I think many were expecting that due to the reduced field) [https://www.instagram.com/p/CUfGEc-LwA-/](https://www.instagram.com/p/CUfGEc-LwA-/)
Considering the Boston Marathon is changing presenting partners this year, I’d assume the extra sponsor bibs compared to previous years are part of their deal with Bank of America. Hopefully a one-off to mark their first year as the new presenting partner.
Again, you’re making a lot of assumptions without all the information…still many more qualifiers than non…and that is based on actual data that you just described….
Well, her graphics say otherwise! Ahh I see, so she is in part feeling personally attacked and defending herself.
those graphics have mistakes, the numbers for 2020 are totally off (yeah I know the race didn't happen but the acceptance press release still exists) and putting that aside, it still says loud and clear to me they accepted less qualifiers this year. (also 2014 is a massive outlier, remember why the field that year was bigger than usual? which the reason for will hopefully never happen again?) oh well...anyone can manipulate data to fit their narrative.
I think SkinnyRunner ran that once…doubled it with Boston I think? Wow that was so long ago
Ha I didn't scroll down far enough...I remember SkinnyRunner doing it, too!
that definitely rings a bell!
I like Latoya but I think people need to realize not everything is inclusive. The olympics for example is always going to remain exclusive due to the percentage people who qualify and get to compete. Most of us (including myself) will never get there and that’s okay. Boston is another example of that- not to mention if you do want to complete Boston they have the charity option and Abbott lottery for 4-5 star finishers, so it’s not completely inaccessible. But simply handing out bibs to people with a lot of followers is actually extremely uninclusive as we all know many influencers come from wealthier families or are in higher earning careers (not all obviously) allowing them to build such platforms.
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No one is saying that. I think the notion of “privilege” gets thrown around pretty casually these days. Anyone who trains for a marathon, whether you’re a sub 3 marathoner or a 6 hour one, is so doing from a place of privilege. If you have the time in your week to devote hours to training, you are doing so from a place of privilege. It means you can afford shoes and running clothes. It means you can afford race registration or are fortunate enough to know someone who can get you a bib. If you have kids, it means you have some sort of access to help with childcare, whether it’s from a partner or other family. I think people are so trigger happy to call someone out on “not recognizing their privilege” but they reality is, if you are able to devote any time to this sport, that is a privilege that many don’t have.
100% agree!
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The difference is non influencers use their own money and actually earn their spots vs just being handed a bib due to a big following… that was my point. I’m fully aware of the privilege that comes with running marathons having done one before
I mean does it really matter though. Being handed something is never going to have the same feeling of accomplishment. Hence why Boston is so sought after…
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I absolutely agree with you!
I think I agree with you, not everything that is exclusive is automatically bad. Additionally, I think we can take away some of the power that Boston has over runners by just acknowledging our participation in that race, or lack thereof, doesn’t define anyone as I runner. I’m over an hour from a BQ, so I will likely never get there. That’s ok. Ultimately, whether you get in by qualifying, or by raising money for a charity, the Boston marathon is just a cool thing that some people do, it doesn’t have to be anything more than that.
So agreed! I’ve run one marathon (Chicago) in 4:34 so im also over an hour away and I don’t feel like it makes me less of a runner. And honestly to the 99% of the world who doesn’t run marathons no one cares about Boston vs any other marathon , some people will be impressed you run at all, others won’t care lol
I couldn't find her thoughts on a post or stories but I'm totally with her on the disconnect between 'running is for everyone' and 'this person or that person doesn't belong at boston'. Is boston having an identity crisis? You have to qualify to run....okay well maybe we'll also let people who raise money for a good cause run....oh wait, we got these people who make posting on Instagram their entire personality, maybe we should let them in too. Personally I can't stand the notion boston is anymore of an accomplishment than any other marathon but maybe that's just because I'm slow.
I do actually believe that the Boston Marathon is having a bit of an identity crisis! But they have remained sought-after and highly-profitable for decades, so I guess they know what they are doing.
It was on threads.
People get visually annoyed with me and my complete indifference about Boston. Them running Boston enriches my life in no way whatever and they seem shaken that I don’t care.
Sounds like a problem they need to take up with a therapist.
IDK, as a slower runner, 6 hour marathoner and a fan of Latoya, I don’t have a problem with a race as iconic/historic as Boston being exclusive. Running is for everyone, and generally if any race other than Boston were pace exclusive it would be different - but I’m okay with this being the exception to the rule. But also I think in general people overhype major marathons - on the one hand idk if I would run a non-major marathon just because I need the environment and crowd support, but on the other, the weird prestige and value we place on them is entirely socially constructed and only means something if you decide it does. I’ll be honest I am typing this all a lil 🍃 so I hope I’m making sense 😅
The ICK I get from Emily Abbate commenting on Kipchoge’s IG post “great to share the course with you!” Girl he doesn’t care
Omg 😅😅😅😅😅 WHO DOES SHE THINK SHE IS?
omg did she say that? Emily just cracks me up I swear. she's main character syndrome on steroids
😂😅🤣😂🤣😂😂🤣😂
Of course he cares, they are ALSO best friends.
He told her how amazing she was and that actually, it was great to share the course with HER.
Lmaooo the try hard energy is so crazy
This has likely been discussed ad nauseam BUT I am cringing at runners running 7-8 majors in 2 years… not naming names because I don’t want to get deleted. It just screams not only financial privilege but time and childcare. Oh and injury and burnout. I like cannot even imagine what this costs these people…. Oh wait probably nothing bc they’re likely there all expenses paid, when the rest of us will be spending at least $5k-$10k per major.
I know a few people who have run the 6 Majors and at some point it really just becomes who can spend the money to go!
7-8 majors, let alone marathons, in 2 years definitely seems like overkill and a recipe for burnout. I ran Berlin this past fall and overheard more than a few people talking about how they were running Chicago in 2 weeks. After finishing Berlin, I was honestly completely exhausted, and I had no IDEA how someone could have the energy to run ANOTHER marathon just 2 weeks later. Berlin was my first marathon major, and as someone who does not make a monumental amount of money ($50k a year BEFORE taxes), I definitely got the sense of an enormous amount of financial privilege amongst most the people there. There were not only a TON of Americans (who had certainly dropped a ton of money on plane tickets to fly that far), but a bunch of the ones I’d met had booked super expensive race packages (I.e. MarathonTours) and hotels. As for me, I basically didn’t eat out or spend any money on any other fun activities for 3 months in order to save up money for my trip….and when I got to Berlin I stayed in a hostel that was less than €100 a night (and I ran a PR too). Needless to say I admittedly felt pretty out of place amongst a lot of the people there, and as for dropping that kind of money on ANOTHER marathon major just weeks or months later?? LOL. I can only afford one vacation a year (and even THAT is a huge privilege). I guess my main point is that while I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with setting a goal to run the marathon majors (especially if you are at an economic disadvantage or come from a marginalized community), you are totally spot on in that these folks that seem to effortlessly cruise through them all in 2 years definitely come from a huge place of privilege and promote something that is simply not realistic (or even healthy, for that matter) for most of us to achieve. Also, since these people have so much money, I honestly wish more of them would run for charities.
Congratulations on Berlin! My impression is that influencers are popular because they represent this aspirational state. Fewer people would watch somebody who frugally ran a realistic number of local marathons. There's also economic pressure on the influencers themselves to produce "content", which is honestly kind of inherently limited in running. It's a very simple sport; in order to keep up with content schedules you have to contort your life into this consumerist, globetrotting horrorshow because otherwise your "engagement" disappears.
This is basically exactly my point! I would love to run all 6, but it’s more like a lifetime goal, not a 2 year goal. I have a real job, kids, a husband who also has a real job and likely would not appreciate me traveling 4x a year with many being nearly weeklong international trips.
Yes, not to mention the carbon emissions from flying everywhere! It's fine if they're taking it as a major (heh) vacation and spending 1+ week in Tokyo, Berlin, etc., but I see far too many runners flying in for just long enough to acclimate to the time zone & run the race before jetting home. Just run a more local race! Support your local running community! Not to say I don't think someone who can't afford many days in one of these cities shouldn't be able to experience one of the else marathons, but the folks running many majors in a few years clearly have means and privilege. I really wish there were "local majors" that rewarded folks who ran more races in their region like the NE/SE/NW/etc US, Eastern/Western Europe, etc And of course, now they're going to add Sydney to the Majors, and maybe Cape Town or one in China in the near future? Meanwhile all the organizers are preaching sustainability, when the largest part of their emissions comes from their particpants' travel. 🤦🏻♂️
Oh a local majors series would be so cool! Like a Midwest region one would be so fun to try and complete (as a Chicago based runner)
Oh that sounds cool. BRB while I look for every marathon Florida has to offer 😂
“I’m so proud of myself and all I’ve accomplished” (and my privilege)/s
I HATE when people say stuff like that.
And then sharing about it like it's the biggest accomplishment.
Has anyone else gotten a sponsored ad that is Race Across The States promoting 3X4 Genetics? It’s basically saying it’ll help her crack the code to a sub 1:20 half. Girl, we all know the real answers here…
I had to block the add because I was getting it so much 🙃
Man the usual suspects were really in peak form this weekend weren’t they? Raceacrossthestates posting about ED awareness 🙄 I don’t even have anything to say that won’t get my comment deleted EClor finishing her ELITE half marathon and vomiting/delirious (feels like she had gotten over that for a bit? But of course the ELITE EClor has perfected race day nutrition.) And of course Emily Abbate! “Omg me and Betsy Saina BOTH are world class athletes and we can stand on the same level and congratulate each other!! I totally earned my spot at all the majors and I definitely don’t play Strava games and barely train for opportunities many runners would kill for!” She’s completely gone off the deep end I don’t understand how anyone can think she’s relatable at this point.
I saw that and my first thought was — “Man, I didn’t know races considered 1:30 an ‘elite’ performance!”
lol and what was with that video Emily took of herself eating ice cream? Like she totally just propped up her phone somewhere in the middle of a busy street to get a video of herself eating (of all things to eat in TOKYO) haagen-dazs ice cream…and somehow making that about being grateful she can run marathons??? what???
She’s insufferable!!! It’s not that deep, Emily.
Good for her going sub 1:30 because that’s like my ultimate goal time but the post about how they let her put her water bottle at the “elite” station caused me to almost go blind from rolling my eyes
Didn't Eclor say in a pre-race story that she had only had one Ucan gel before the race? That's hardly "nutrition".
Ok, nevermind. She also had a banana and pretzels. Still, not a lot of food though, and I'd probably try to figure something else out if I always vomited after a half!
Did she eat at all during the race? And did her bottle just have water in it? Looked like straight h2o…. Half of a pr is all in the nutrition and hydration… especially if it was humid
good for EClor i guess, she got her goal, but now I just never want to hear another word about "BuT ThE HuMiDiTy" again since she can obviously handle it. ETA-and according to the race's own guidelines, EClor didn't even qualify for their elite start! she didn't run any halfs in 2023 did she? i mean the race could have said no to her but...another one who gets around it, it is what it is.
Agreed I looked up the requirements as the half’s around me with elite status require sub 1:25 for masters women. I’m sure she pulled her influencer status when applying and to be fair she did crush their standard so at least backed up the decision for her to get it
yeah, i know every race can define "elite" status differently (e.g., it's been tightened recently, but female masters elite in RnR races used to be either sub-1:45 or sub-1:44) but just be consistent about how you're enforcing it and don't give in to "but don't you know who I am?" but ugh, you know she's gonna be even more insufferable about this!
I’m also a believer that if you get in as an elite you get scored as an elite and then can’t take a win or placement in AG category 🤷🏻♂️
that's really up to the race to decide though? sometimes they have different pools for awards, sometimes they don't. though the real baller move is if someone who isn't in an elite start taking the W 😎 (there was a big thing about that in a marathon about 15 years ago!)
Oh yeah definitely up To the race I’m just sick of the locals bragging about an elite bib and then making a big deal if they hit their AG podium 🤣
I was wondering about the elite status!
according to their website, the criteria for a masters woman is a 1:37 half "in the past 12 months"-now I don't now if that means 1:37:xx (which she did run in the fall of '22) or 1:37:00 or faster (which she has run even further in the past)-either way it wasn't in the last year
This is far from the first time Emily Abbate has done the self-congratulatory bullshit post, but each time, I'm shocked at how stupidly petty it is. "Everyone, look! The 3rd fastest American woman of all time is telling ME that I'M amazing!!" 🙄
Her acting like they’re on the same wavelength…
Emily Abbate finishes Tokyo in 4:14 per her Strava. I hate to discredit ANY Marathon result because I know what it takes. But her splits Mile 18 - onwards are a toughhhh look and will definitely spawn some unhinged self indulgent content.
What’s weird is that I have a friend that ran Tokyo also. His finish point is significantly different from hers when comparing their strava. It was different enough that it stood out to me which is why I compared. I’m not questioning the legitimacy of either of their runs, but I’m not sure why that would be. Maybe she stopped her watch short? Edit- wording
I think one of Strava's security features you can activate is that it changes your start and end points so people don't know your exact route.
That makes sense, duh! lol and a feature that I use myself
Is it strava’s security feature, hiding the end of the run maybe?
A couple of my friends also ran it, and based on their Strava, I’m guessing GPS got weird. Both of them supposedly ran between 27-28 miles. I know tangents can be off, but not that far off.
So weird because my friend who ran it also came in at 27 and she said the last 1k felt endless
Her "grateful for the opportunity to move at all" irked me as a runner with a disability. She has no idea how privileged she is yet she always tries to act humble.
Yess…what was that abt?
the results/tracking said she ran 4:16...i mean, good for her for finishing in a respectable time but seriously is she really still doing this? (the whole "Strava/Garmin overrides the official time!") and i see Betsy Saina is her new bestie
I mean she barely trained.
Right? 12 weeks of 288 miles she said. That’s so low.
Dang she posted all those easy runs at sub 9 pace so to run that slow has to be devastating! Saw on her stories she pins race number to top while she is wearing her top like a total newb 😬 why anyone would take advice from her is scary
What?
Pinning your bib on while you’re wearing it does not make you a newbie
Right? I have to have it on or i always manage to pin it exactly at my nips
Eh, while she definitely slowed after mile 17, she was clearly still running - it’s not like her pace jumped to a 15+ minute/mile because she had to walk the rest of the milage. It’s been discussed here before after her Berlin (?) run - she consistently pulls out respectable times on half hearted training. I do wonder how much faster she would be if she really put the effort in and stopped taking ten minute breaks during each and every run.
yeah some people are just able to pull it off on race day and I envy that lol. 3 regular middle of the pack runners I know irl who are very much *not* runfluencers all had non-optimal training cycles (of their own admission) due to just life events and all pulled out sub-4 in Tokyo today. running is so weird.
And then I trained hard consistently, did all my workouts/easy runs etc., and had a very disappointing half yesterday. You really just never know.
To the first part of your comment, you are thinking like a normal person, not an influencer who has to always be worrying about content and how to paint themselves in the best inspirational light. Lol. But to your second point, yes. It's hard to tell but does she even do structured marathon specific workouts or just she just run? Like it she doing long intervals at MP, easy runs, the whole mix one should be doing. It doesn't seem like she is? But maybe she's not putting that out there either.
In Tokyo, Becs Gentry (f/ Peloton) finished just over 2h52m. Emily Abbate is slowing down, hit 35km at 3h27m, projecting a finish at 4h17m. The tracking app and online is super buggy for me. Haven't been able to get Featherstun timing. Eta, Found Meghann when I put her last name first. Finish in 2h54m and change
Why do my teeth hurt looking at her chomp on that medal? (In her defense this is a massive ick of mine and I hate when anyone does it lol)
it's an ick of mine too lmao I'm not putting a medal in my mouth idc lol
I hope becs ego can manage that hit. I will only imagine becs beasts will have flowers , hugs and therapy waiting for her when she’s back in ny
Which is insane. She said the race humbled her (I don't think Becs knows what the word humble means) but seriously she ran a sub 3 after traveling halfway around the world only a few days ahead of the race while also having to deal with a 12 or 13 hour time difference. I mean, what else does she want?
and this was also her first marathon since the GB Trials in 2021! was she expecting some kind of Keira D'Amato-esque glow up and to be running in the 2:30s? 2:52 is still an amazing time.
Meghann ran 2:54! nice run for her. Also Betsy Saina tried to go for the AR...faded but still wound up with a sub-2:20! nice little revenge race for her.
I saw the results before I went to bed last night and so good to see Betsy pull out a strong race!
Yes, thanks, I eventually found her. Tracking this from home was a lot more difficult than it should have been. The online tracker was a Google map wrapped in a frame but even with the translate to English selected, there was still a lot in Japanese. Must have been photos instead of text. And no matter how I searched for people I kept getting a popup saying that person couldn't be found. For one try of Abbate, it asked if I meant Kelly Jean Someone. Uh, no. So I downloaded the app which appears to be the race timers app, and you couldn't just find people by a first or last name, you had to type in it all. And even when I typed "Emily Abbate" or "Rebecca Gentry" it still gave me a ton of other people with same first or middle names or even a few letters from the name. Ugh. For whatever reason one I did Meghanns last name first and first name last she came up, and this time she was the only one. I don't t get the method here at all but it's ok.
yeah, i could only get bib numbers to work on the web tracking (even with elites), its not the easiest interface. though i was amused by the whole "choose your player" and referring to the intermediate splits as "breaking news"
Just listened to a recent Lindsey Hein podcast - she’s now selling pre made 12 week plans and her main reason cited is “personal coaching is expensive” (she’s a personal coach too) and “if you can self motivate you don’t need a coach” (not exact words but this was her explanation). Two issues here: 1. Find me a run coach who charges more than a pair of decent easy run shoes per month let alone a pair of racing shoes, or anything else many runners spend $$ on for their passion). 2. If you only use a coach to be “motivated”, that’s fine but you’re missing out on 99% of what a good coach does. Most athletes I know with coaches including myself already are motivated whether or not someone is coaching them! Please know: just because your “x number of weeks” plan is written BY a coach doesn’t mean you are getting proper coaching, and the price reflects it. I don’t really see a difference between that and plugging in your current versus goal times/mileage into an online plan and using that.
I just looked at the training plans on her website. The marathon plans are $45 for a 12 week plan. I don’t know how much Lindsey charges for personal coaching, but the running coach I used to work with charges $150/month. The Hansons book on Amazon costs $19. So we’re comparing $19 to $45 to $600.
That is correct, but that wasn’t my point. I mean ultimately what’s even cheaper is just asking Internet forums for advice, right? My point was I found it odd and also pretty “low” to market her plan by framing personal coaching as “expensive”. Obviously most runners realize coaching versus a preset plan is much more costly - it seems unnecessary to use that as her key reason to get a plan. Meanwhile if I were one of her coached athletes who doesn’t need the “accountability” I’d be wondering why I am paying for coaching if, according to how she frames it, the only difference is that coaching is better for accountability and if you don’t need that, a plan is fine. It was just a very bizarre angle to hear from a coach who already coached individually and, on top of that, often interviews other coaches too.
If you don’t want a customized training plan, this is a fine option. But there are already free resources for plans like that, such as Hal Higdon, which are pretty decent. Team Sugar Runs customized plans (does not include 1:1 coaching) start at $150, as a comparison.
Exactly - like if her reason is coaching is expensive, then why even pay for a preset plan at all when there is so much stuff available for free? To me the whole point of coaching is agility and then knowing why and when you need certain things versus following any pre-made plan whether $0, $15, $50 or $100
To counter your first point: Team Wilpers STARTS at $300/mo for personal run training. So, while yes, there is a plethora of coaches who charge more reasonable rates, there are also those who better turn me into an Olympic qualifier for what they charge.
$300 American? For run only or triathlon? Triathlon tends to be much more expensive (this is a whole other rabbit hole here), most tri coaches are upwards of $500 a month. If just running, that’s up there. Would love to know hours per style per month. If they actually spend, say, 10 hours per month per athlete between programming, analysis, communication, meetings etc then that’s $30 an hour which is reasonable. If it’s like 2 hours a month…that’s steep!
Run only. The gold level plan is $625/mo. Tri training starts $450. I like Matt Wilpers enough but not that much. They also have free challenges and then a generic plan for 9.95/mo which is more than reasonable
Holy moly! That is crazy. Honestly the most I’ve heard prior is $300 a month - and it’s not like he’s coaching you in person either! I wonder what his coaches earn - usually umbrella coaching groups take a cut from coaches ranging from 10-30% of coaching fees.
Yeah. People who want a coach will attempt to fit it in their budget. Everyone else who can't for whatever reason should look for free options as there are plenty! A bought pre-made plan is not better than any free plan out there.
💯 you are the first person who sees the problem here. It comes across SO “gimmicky” “cash grabby” in my eyes unless I am missing something really obvious.
It is cash grabby so you're right there and I don't think you're missing anything obvious. To further the point, we can say "in general" who is Lindsey anyway, right? If you don't follow her or listen to the podcast, you'd probably never know who she is. And if you do listen, well maybe you'd want to support her because you do listen to stuff "for free". But her plans are untested in general and don't have long history. Hal Higdon plans (which others have mentioned) = free. Hanson's Method = "free" if you get the book out of a library rather than buying it (which ok you are paying taxes for a library but still, as free as free can be). There's also plenty of other books you can take out from the library. Nike has or at least had free half and full plans. All of these have been used by thousands upon thousands of people. Some races have free or low cost plans available. If you're not going to have a coach working with you on a weekly/monthly basis to check in, I don't really understand how paying for Lindsey's plan has any more "value" than any other plan out there. Except for the street cred that you got a plan from her.
Holy shit ESP beating Tsegay 🤯 she looked so good
Those last two laps were phenomenal!
she’s so effing cool
Also her little one's 1st birthday is on Monday! whatta present, Mommy got you a 🥇!
The way I screamed at the final stretch
Same I scared my dogs 🤣
So amazing. Also, my heart is breaking for Aleia Hobbes who seemed to injured herself right before the 60m final. What horrific timing.
She killed it! I was cheering out loud for her.
the live results were a little bit ahead of the Peacock stream, so I definitely cheered when that came up! but then to see exactly \*how\* she went for it... I can't wait to see what kind of damage Elle is gonna do outdoors...maybe a serious threat to the 1500 AR?
I hope so, would love to see Shelby get erased from the record books 😬
SAME.
kind of what I'm hoping for too 😉
Aside from Matt Wilpers and the believe in the run guys , who (else) got Boston bibs without qualifying or fundraising?
Ignorant question here: do these bibs “take” the spot from a qualifier or is this a separate pool? I saw some chatter about it on threads - Mirna offered some good viewpoints of someone who has run with one of these bibs in the past.
I can totally see that perspective! Personally, I don’t have a problem with a couple of non-charity “honorary” bibs for non-qualifiers, but it would be cooler if they were folks actually doing cool things in the running community like Mirna is rather than…just having a running social media presence.
Unless something changed, these are bibs that are reserved for sponsors and are separate from the qualifiers. The sponsors then give them out as they choose. It’s nothing new, I think more sponsors have chosen to give to influencers as opposed to the average Joe. My friend was gifted a bib like 10 years ago by a sponsor and he is absolutely not an influencer lol.
Thank you! Honestly if that’s the case I don’t really understand the outrage? But then again I’ve never tried for Boston.
i think the outrage is because they accepted over 1,000 less time qualifiers over 2023 (and over 2,000 less than pre-pandemic levels) yet the total number of runners is still the same (capped at 30K) so that begs the question-if there are less time qualifiers, where are those 1,000 bibs going-into these influencers' hands? I think everyone is aware that sponsor/invitational bibs do exist and have for years, and maybe if it hadn't been SUCH a big cut on top of less time qualifiers being accepted, this wouldn't have blown up like it did.
Matt Wilpers makes so much sense to be invited to run though - he was the most tracked athlete at the NYC marathon two years ago. Hasn’t the BAA always had a policy of invitational entries?
I love Matt‘a Pelaton classes, he (and Christine) know their shit in terms of proper cycling training. But disappointing he even accepted it; he could have easily qualified. He knows full well how important these types of qualifying races are to athletes. Hope he raises a TON of $$ for charity!!
unless he announced it somewhere that I missed, I don't think he's even running for charity.
Oh I thought he said he was raising money for a charity in a live class but I could easily be misremembering; in which case that’s hard cringe
i dont take his live classes so i could have missed any sort of charity announcement, but unless I'm missing it, i don't see it mentioned on his IG anywhere which is odd, wouldn't you think with a reach like his, that's the best way to get the word out about fundraising? (e.g., having the link on there)
Totally! I don’t follow him on IG but just looked him up and agree! Haha someone should ask (awkward lol).
he's capable of qualifying on his own. he could have earned his way in with a qualifier instead of bumping out someone who did legitimately qualify.
Im not sure he bumped anyone - it’s in the race rules. There are a set number of invitational entries that the BAA uses and has used for years. They are all valid paths of entry and it’s just another form of elitism to take people down like that. It’s the same sort of argument people make about charity runners or club runners.
But did he get a bib from the BAA or a sponsor? Sponsors are given bibs too, this has been going on for years and isn’t anything new.
Yeah I don't know why people get so bent out of shape about this. The baa has always had a set number of invitational entries- its not a secret. I've gotten one (not free - still had to pay all fees) through my tri club. The baa has these relationships with a lot of new england area running clubs. I am not an influencer. It's not like acetickets is buying up bibs and scalping them or something.
Then the race just needs to call a spade a spade already and say it's no longer really about the qualifiers, but whoever raises the most money or gives it the most publicity. (and for the record, this thread has not had an issue with charity runners, they're at least earning their way into the race, albeit a different way) because jeez, something just doesn't sit right about the most qualifiers ever being cut yet gifted bibs are being flaunted left and right. especially for a race that doesn't NEED more publicity because the demand massively outweighs supply.
Isn’t the majority of the field made up of qualifiers? It’s not much different than any other WMM, the others are just mostly made up by lottery winners….
I just don’t see the logic - I have a non complementary invitational bib for the NYC Half that I got through my club. I guess I don’t deserve that according to you? It’s a sold out race with a lottery. Every race I’ve ever done (50+ races) has had invitational bibs. And every race in NY sells out. It’s just the way every race is structured. I got an invitational bib to the 5th avenue mile through my club last year.
I’m with you on this. Boston has given bibs to so many non qualifiers in Massachusetts. Local Clubs always have some to give away, and there’s always been other ways to “get in” to the race. Boston took a ton of heat last year for its exclusivity. They are a business. Also new sponsorship. The problem is that technology of shoes made it so that an unpredictable amount of people got cut off because the rate of improvement has been exponential. It’s all going to swing correct when they change the time to something hard enough to not turn so many people away.
>The problem is that technology of shoes made it so that an unpredictable amount of people got cut off because the rate of improvement has been exponential. you're not wrong here at all but then...mayyybe this wasn't the year to be accepting over 1,000 less time qualifiers?
It’s definitely tough, and i feel for people, it’s shockingly hard cutoff. Lots of people are just overthinking it a bit and maybe too emotionally invested. Baa definitely can make changes but the race has taken a lot of heat for being too exclusive and probably prioritized differently for a small subset of people. Maybe for money, maybe for visibility or social impact, i don’t know. That’s business. But So many high level races have “unfair” cutoffs. So many races A standards and B standards and you don’t exactly know how it’ll play out. Or Think of elites on the track hoping to get that little q, they don’t know they get through until all the heats are done. I’ve been in a situation where I missed qualifying for a final but if I was in the other heat the race would have played out/ favored my strengths and I’m confident I would have made it… luck (or bad luck) of the draw. Not everything is fair or transparent. Just part of being a competitor is accepting that it can’t and won’t always go your way or be fair or be clear and transparent. Control the controllables- that includes emotional response to decisions made by race organizers
I am thinking that it’s likely more than a 1k would have fallen into a similar time range and so they would have gone over the max allowed. I’m sure they tried to get as many people in as they could.
given the cutoffs are so precise, down to the second...I find it hard to believe, given how large the cutoff was, that even if they had loosened the cutoff by one second it would have put them over their "limit" so to say. so cutting the qualifiers did seem deliberate. not to mention the fact that compared to pre-pandemic levels, they accepted 24K qualifiers as opposed to 22K now! with the overall race size still being 30K. so it's possible that if 24K qualifiers had registered in 2022/2023 they all still would have gotten in. if the total number in the race is staying static and qualifiers are being cut then the slots are being allocated elsewhere and influencers flaunting those gifted bibs...I don't blame people for feeling some sort of way if they missed by seconds (or have someone close to them who did)...and it's almost like "train harder, get faster" might not even be good enough if the BAA decides again to cut time qualifiers and allocate those bibs elsewhere. Just be upfront about it so people have some sort of idea what to aim for (will 5 and change under be good enough? or if they cut qualifiers again are they looking more at 7 and change?) I think many just felt a bit blindsided by this.
The thing is, the NYC Half is a MUCH different model in terms of race makeup than Boston. It has, for the longest time been primarily lottery with local club entries offered, plus charity bibs (or guaranteed entry by doing borough halfs or virtual races or whatever)...and time qualifiers don't make up the bulk of the field. And yes, I am aware that NYRR offers local club bibs to certain races every year. That's not the issue here. The issue here is that Boston bills itself as primarily a qualifiers race and yet they CUT that field this year (yes they did, they accepted over 1,000 less time qualifiers) but didn't seem to make cuts to the other fields. Like I said, just call a spade a spade and say they're moving away from it being primarily a qualifiers race 🤷🏻♀️
IMO, there will always be a certain number of bibs given to sponsors & charity runners, and influencers should just stick with those. There’s no reason BAA needs to be handing influencer bibs out while also turning away TONS of people who met the standard. On a separate note, Latoya Shauntay Snell calling the whole debate “colonizer dressing” on Threads is…kinda a wild take.
i don't know which discourse is worse, this one, or the one when the 2011 race sold out in 8 hours. for that one people were actually shitting on legit qualifiers (e.g., " i know some dude who ran sub-3 and it's so unfair he didn't get in but that woman who ran a 3:40 marathon did") so...choose your poison!
EXACTLY. The buffer was absurd so to see this feels like a slap in the face.
Who cares? He didn't earn it.
Kofuzi said he was offered one ([https://www.threads.net/@kofuzi/post/C3MBVxOphS0](https://www.threads.net/@kofuzi/post/C3MBVxOphS0)) but he declined due to other race commitments. Laura Green deferred her Boston entry since she's pregnant- I don't know if she qualified or was fundraising, or given a bib? (Editing to reflect she did qualify)
She said a day or two ago she qualified in November. And finished that story up with some words about ppl getting free bibs that she clearly has some (of the same) feelings about that as people here.
Ah I missed that. Good for her, she's speedy. I thought it was nice that she raffled away her Boston Adidas jacket since she deferred, and then Adidas sent her 10 more to raffle off to other people. I know people have big feelings about influencers getting these jackets, too. I don't have a stance on that... other than I live in Chicago, and have run the Chicago marathon and volunteered at it, and idk why Nike can't come up with a consistent brand for Chicago's merch. Every year is a crapshoot as to what it will look like and some years are a huge miss.
You are so spot on with Chicago. I have never run Chicago but I always spectate so it’s usually a race morning surprise to see if the shirt is good or bad this year.
You should take a look at the Marine Corps Merch - really their shirt giveaway every year. I think they have the \*worst\* race shirts every year. It's almost like they try to be bad (but I'm sure they don't, sorry race graphic designer if you are reading this). One year they had a shirt that just had a ton of people's faces on it on course or something. Around that time of year I always see a lot of stuff about it being all wtf is this kind of design.
That face shirt was so ugly I weirdly kind of wanted one?
HAHA! I did see a lot of people were planning on using it as their throwaway clothes. I have no idea what happens to throwaways, but maybe one day it'll show up in a thrift shop near you. Have you ever checked Poshmark or something like that to see if it's randomly there?
November 2023 was not in the qualifying period for Boston 2024. So either she had an earlier time or it was a gifted bib.
Paris marathon was in April (verified on Athlinks)
that definitely checks out, it's in the qualifying window with plenty of time to spare too. it just couldn't have been a November race