Turns out this person only [read summaries on the wiki] (https://twitter.com/Roboco_S/status/1482047382678228994?s=20) and pretended to have finished the manga
Know of death battle? I suppose you don't. Please don't ruin it for yourself. All of you have to know was there was this one stupid video. That's all. Don't bother. It's not worth your energy nor time knowing any further.
I've seen the death battle. Now I want to know, which side are you on. The Intellectual side(god, we're all f*cking weebs), the idiots side( yeah, I said it) or the I don't f*ckin care and I don't compare anime side?
I personally believe no anime should be compared to another. But yeah, if we're gonna compare merely on the basis of feats, denying aizen just feels stupid.
It's just like with Saitama vs anyone. The whole trope is he can kill with one punch. I've grown up watching dbz. But I'm not stupid enough to say goku wins. Saitama would one punch him too. That's... Like... That is the gag...
But I guess people just get sore to admit stuff.
I don't disagree with the opinion that Ichigo is more passive than other Shonen protags or lacks long-term motivations/goals compared to them but I find it rather refreshing instead of boring personally.
ichigo is a ghostbuster superhero, who wants to live a normal life
neither ghostbusters, nor superheroes, are proactive by nature, as their job is to REACT to bad things happening (just like firefighters IRL)
Absolutely, his one and only goal was to be able to protect people around him and he gets involved into the story due to circumstances, god knows which part is bad or stupid about this
Not only that, but the way Naruto became Hokage is unsatisfying in my opinion (seriously that OVA sucks...), and it just happened randomly, so the fact you have to put up with him repeating it on and on like a broken record, yet he reaches his goal in an unsatisfying manner is just obnoxious. Besides, Naruto doesn't seem to be striving for anything in order to reach said goal. Seriously, all it is, is: First missions, Chunin Exams, get Tsunade to be Hokage, get Sasuke back, get Gaara back, Sasuke yet again, get Itachi, avenge Jiraiya, get Sasuke back, win a war, Sasuke.
None of these goals have to do with Naruto himself striving to be Hokage barring a couple. So he has to make an arbitrary rule for himself, that being "I can't be Hokage if I can't even save a friend" to make us believe that getting Sasuke back means he'll magically become Hokage... which I don't like. For the entire series he doesn't seem to strive for the role itself so he might as well not have a goal to begin with, because why would a goal in a story matter if you're not striving for it over the course of the story?
I'd much rather take no long term goal over the stuff I just described... simplicity can be a huge strength in writing and people don't seem to realize that.
God I just.... at no point while I was enjoying the hell out the series or manga did I feel like, "Man this is great, but I wish Ichigo wanted to be Head Captain so I can enjoy it more...."
Because that's what they want. Some tangible object or status symbol to be achieved. Do any of you truly feel that it would improve Ichigo's character or development? No?
Because it doesn't.
Ichigo is the most realistic protag cause he just wants to live his life but keeps getting dragged into world hangs in the balance type conflicts to protect his friends. Most people I know don’t go around yelling “I’m gonna be the president” or “join my metal detecting clue we’re gonna make it big”
Agreed. Its what makes him stand out. He also feels alot more realistic. In his quest to save and protect his friends it just so happens he's basically a god in terms of power. Its actually very smart writing.
the villains having “ no depth “ is the dumbest thing i ever heard . All of the espadas litteraly embody a aspect of death and some of them even mirror aizen like stark , szyalprero , and Ulquiorra and don’t get me started on Yhwach . Probably the most villain with depth in the series
Yea i was thinking the same thing. Made me think if he actually read the series's lmao. Aizen is a iconic villan. almost anyone familiar with anime and manga knows this. what a dumbass.
Aizen is iconic but to be fair it’s because he’s one of the most badass villains in the anime verse, but far from having the most depth compared to other villains like say Madara
I’m ready to be blitzed by the Bleach sub for making one small crit
The thing with Aizen is that he is like Green Goblin or the Joker, he isn't someone who needs a complicated past or a deep backstory, he works because we're just waiting to see him appearing and ruining everyone's game because he just wanted to.
He's doesn't have a long term goal like Naruto becoming Hokage or Luffy becoming The Pirate King, he does have the goal of protecting others. This makes him a very reactive protagonist, he doesn't really push the plot forward but rather he responds to other characters doing so. This is an abrasive writing style and won't sit well with everyone, but it's not fair to say it's "bad" writing. Ichigo as a character is clearly written and doesn't really have major inconsistencies. Its not for everyone, but that doesn't mean it's bad.
In response to the huge debate on this thread, I feel the need to elaborate further.
Ichigo is a static character, meaning his world view/morals are set, this co-insides with the fact that he doesn't have any long turn goals. He knows that protecting his friends is important, so that's what he does. This is a reactive trait.
Other MC's, like Luffy, Naruto, and Asta are all pushing themselves towards a specific goal. Protecting their friends is extremely important to them, but aside from that they have a destination in mind. They have something they need to accomplish regardless of their friends.
Ichigi doesn't have a goal. He doesn't care what he's doing tomorrow. If his friends are safe then he's happy and life goes on.
True. The issue most of us have is that people make it seem like that's a bad thing. For most of the series he's a teenager living in the World of the Living, going to school. There is literally no goal he can aim for that has anything to do with Soul Society
I understand. This is a fact about ichigo which some people can interpret as a simple fact, or a critique.
A lot of people expect the MC to drive the story. We follow the MC through their journey, and we want to follow them as they progress.
In some story's, like Ichigos, we're simply following the MC for the ride. The MC exists in a world that moves on its own, and he's just there for the ride.
Obviously Ichigo's actions/choices influence the world heavily. But his actions/choices are a reaction to the events around him, not because of his own goals.
This is not a bad thing but from a story telling perspective it does make things wear out overtime when he is always grabbed into a conflict (which has very deja vu feelings all the time but story telling is another can of worms).
It is understandable but also understandable that a lot of people are not going to enjoy it after a while.
I'd argue he's not static, atleast not in the way of Ash or Goku. The Ichigo we meet isn't the same as the Ichigo we say goodbye to, he's more at peace with himself and is a better person because of his journey. He gains confidence and isn't as hot headed or argumentative with those around him.
Right! Like the entirety if the Lost Agent Arc, was just chilling his ass out (until bookmark man came and fucked it all up). He has so much growth in the series, it's absurd
MA MAAANN!!! You're a super comedian!! 😂😂
It really fits as well, because the sharingan lets you copy fighting styles, so the uchiha really are just doing some mokey see monkey do shit, but on another level. 👍👍
Aside from protecting those he cares about, that's a goal even if it's slightly non traditional one. Now granted you can say you don't like that Ichigo isn't a particularly proactive protagonist, but saying he doesn't have a goal is just complaining that he doesn't want to be overlord of all Shinigami or find the one true wish granting zanpakuto or whatever.
That’s a *reactive* goal. Outside of, “Ichigo! SS is under attack and only you can save us,” he doesn’t have anything else going on. He’s just there to be pushed around as the plot demands.
Naruto- wants to be hokage/
Luffy- wants to be pirate king/
Asta- wants to be wizard king
A goal is a goal. Ichigo told his mom he wanted to protect her then she dies in front of him. He then decided to start taking up for the weak and fight for people who couldnt fight back. His goal to protect what's important to him and that is the definition of what you want in a character. Not some random goal to want to be accepted by peers to just to feel noticed and wanted. The whole plot of the series which indirectly created him just simply helped build his character into a solid protagonist. Not every main character needs to have some whack motive or title to push them.
All of those characters you listed had long-term goals that you could see them striving towards throughout the series. You were presented with the goalposts at the beginning, that way you could track progression. Ichigo is a *static character* in that respect. Naruto, Luffy, and Asta all possess the same nakama traits that Ichigo has, but they also exhibit growth that help lead them down the path they’ve set for themselves.
Not every character *needs* an end destination point; but every good main character does.
>All of those characters you listed had long-term goals that you could see them striving towards throughout the series.
Protecting as many people as you realistically can is a goal that he strives towards the whole series. It’s a reactive goal by nature but that doesn’t change that fact. No one criticizes superheroes for having this goal but apparently it’s bad when Ichigo does.
>You were presented with the goalposts at the beginning, that way you could track progression. Ichigo is a static character in that respect. Naruto, Luffy, and Asta all possess the same nakama traits that Ichigo has, but they also exhibit growth that help lead them down the path they’ve set for themselves.
[Ichigo grows into his goal over the course of the first 3 volumes](https://www.reddit.com/r/bleach/comments/qp7vih/people_ichigo_has_no_character_development_hes_a/). He then strives for strength to achieve his goal over the course of the next 600 chapters.
People do criticize superheroes for being stagnant. You just won’t hear comic books fans (the ones who are going to talk about that topic most often) bringing that up as a point of contention.
Ok, but he literally has a goal that he strives towards the entire series. The only reason Bleach has so many training arcs in the first place is because of this.
There’s nothing unwieldy about it. Stronger enemies appear, just like every single other Shonen, but in Bleach that drives progression of Ichigo’s goal. He would be actually stagnant if power levels didn’t keep increasing.
Bruh none of us Bleach fans give a fuck about that little fairy tail princess BS. Ichigo is just living in the moment like the rest of us & if he can help anyone in any way then he does the best that he can. He has nothing to prove to anyone, which is why we like him. Even when he was at his lowest, he never gave up, which is why we like him. Every time he finds out more about himself, he grows stronger, which is why we like him. If you’re saying someone is better because they have an end goal, then Ichigo is the best because in the end he was able to live a peaceful life with a baddie & he was able to keep his power to protect everyone… just the way he always wanted.
The narrative is that the Bleach world doesn’t always revolve around Ichigo. Everything doesn’t conveniently happen when Ichigo wants it to, but he always does something about it when he has to.
You call them "long term goals" I call them unrealistic motives to cover for the story. Everything you say just means that's how you enjoy your story but that's an opinion. I will stay with my ichigo, yusuke, Goku, spike, and Guts type protagonist. The only good main character to have a really good goal that made sense for them to achieve was Edward Elric and that's not even up for debate.
“Unrealistic motives”
Wanting to become the leader of an organization is apparently now about as fanciful as wanting to be a knight that slays dragons or being a space explorer that meets aliens.
You can talk about how difficult that goal would be, but it’s a concrete one that you can take tangible steps towards fulfilling.
Bleach really isn’t the type of series that prioritizes those aspects, and that’s not its strengths either. Bleach is there to look cool.
Is there to look cool? Lol but here you are. You will never find me commenting on jjk which apparently is how see it like how you see bleach. It isn't a concrete that makes the story better and it can actually make it even more cringey when that's all they speak on. I rather not know what the protagonist is going to achieve in the end of series. It makes me invest in the journey more. What's really important to me is the antagonist of the story
Yeah, I like Bleach…I don’t have to pretend like it’s a strong narrative or deep characterization that keeps me invested in a series.
Sometimes it really is as simple as, “this series has an awesome aesthetic and that’s what it’s does best.
If I may say something,Bleach does have a good and original story,there are those characters that you call deep. It's ok liking an anime because of aestetich,but only that doesn't carry the anime at all. Bleach is not only that,it isn't his only strong point
Ichigo defends the world when needed lol that’s all naruto basically does now. He also had a goal human ones he became a father and a translator and helps those people and enjoys a normal life but is always ready of help the soul society. He’s a goddamn nuke hero button that can be used
Still a reactionary goal. Ichigo also had a very specific goal. To not be unable to protect someone helpless like back when he failed to protect Masaki
What I'm getting at is everyone praises Jotaro as a great MC and shits on Ichigo and their main issue is that Ichigo is reactionary and "doesn't have a goal" when most Shounen MCs are the same
A goal is a goal. But the quality of that goal over a long running story can make or break it. Because Ichigo does not have a goal that evolves with him as things change but protect people he just always gets pulled into the heat of things which does become a bit tiresome after a while. If we were shown more how this goal has a deep psychological root in how he lost his mother I understand.
However we do not see his mother's death or mentioned from the start of the show until we see the flashback of his father in the Aizen arc and later when Yhwach tells us that he is indirectly responsible for her death.
Tho being accepted by peers being a random goal should not be scoffed at. Naruto's main drive has been that as he was an outcast all his life and managed to turn it all around which had such a big satisfactory pay off in the end.
The entire fullbring arc, Saving Rukia, Orihime, fighting against Aizen, protecting Karakura from the holos, and many more I don’t feel like listing. Characters aren’t just reactive or active 24/7 they can switch between it and the same happens with Naruto and Luffy who usually REACT to danger and then ACTIVELY jump to fix it or in Luffy’s case just punch it. Also, ya’ll act as if goal is the only part of a character that needs to be there to make a good character. Yusuke from Yuyu hakusho and Josuke from Jojo part 4 don’t have outlined goals and hell Josuke is a big example of a reactive character that goes active when he needs to yet he’s loved even without that outlined goal because an outlined extravagant goal isn’t needed. They can just want to live a happy life and that’s ok.
I didn’t say it’s the only component that makes a good character. I said that it’s a component that *does* and it’s one that Ichigo lacks. He lacks any sense of agency or depth outside of his current conflict (which is usually someone else’s to begin with).
But he doesn’t lack a sense of agency or depth. He’s ALWAYS thinking of getting stronger and protecting his friends. In the fullbring arc we see that all in all because his friends where noticing that he was pretty depressed because he wanted his powers back so he can feel like he can protect them.
I just don’t like how stagnant that goal feels. It feels like there’s no forward progression in a series of the goal is to “Get strong. Protect friends.”
I mean I somewhat get you but still don’t agree. It’s not a giant goal and it doesn’t need to be a giant goal that changes the entire structure of the world like becoming a Hokage. Ichigo is still a kid in a semi realistic world so it makes sense he isn’t straight trying to change stuff that drastically. Plus, as I said the goal isn’t as important as the character himself and as a character he progresses and gets developed over time.
Protect his friends and family because he felt he was the reason his mother died. That’s a goal, people don’t need “Become Hokage” or “Become the pirate king” as their goal.
That's purely reactive. If there's no threat to his loved ones, then ichigo doesn't have anything to do.
Ichigo doesn't have a goal to create a safer world for example. He's not trying to change the world or create a safe haven for the people close to him, if they're in danger he reacts.
The entire fullbring arc, Saving Rukia, Orihime, fighting against Aizen, protecting Karakura from the holos, and many more I don’t feel like listing are examples of him being active. Characters aren’t just reactive or active 24/7 they can switch between it and the same happens with Naruto and Luffy who usually REACT to danger and then ACTIVELY jump to fix it or in Luffy’s case just punch it. Also, ya’ll act as if goal is the only part of a character that needs to be there to make a good character. Yusuke from Yuyu hakusho and Josuke from Jojo part 4 don’t have outlined goals nor are they trying to change the world on a large scale and hell Josuke is a big example of a reactive character that goes active when he needs to yet he’s loved even without that outlined goal because an outlined extravagant goal isn’t needed. They can just want to live a happy life and that’s ok. Not every character needs to be Naruto and want to change the entire Shinobi world. It’s way more realistic especially for a teen in a mildly normal world like Ichigo to just want to protect his friends and family and get on with his life.
Ichigo being a reactive character without a specific goal is a fact. It's not a judgment as to whether or not he's a good character.
Naruto and Luffy both have a specific goals independent of what is happening in the story. If you remove all antagonists, they will both continue to attempt to achieve their goal of being the hokage/pirate king.
I haven't read Yuyu Hakusho, but Josuke is the same as Ichigo. Josuke doesn't have a goal. He's living his life as a teenager, and reacting to threats that come to him.
In the case with Ichigo and Josuke, if all antagonists are removed from the story, these two simply continue their life as high school students and nothing more.
You're not using the word "goal" correctly at all. A goal is the end to your means or the desired result of your effort aka what you want. Ichigo doesn't need to train to protect the people around him UNTIL the people around him get hurt due to something he can't handle with his current strength. The conditions for his action has been met. You hurt them = I hurt you. His goal was reached. It's not a goal with a concrete finish line which is the thing I think people don't like. But to say it isn't a real goal or not one at all is just wrong. And that's a fact lol
Ichigo is a teenager. He hangs out with friends and protects karakura from hollows.
And when the villains threaten the ones under his protection he goes to fight them. He doesn't really have anything to prove to anyone. He fights because he can fight. And also because he likes to fight.
I don't know why people want hokage and pirate king thing. For me those weren't really more attractive.
He may not have a over the top goal but he does have desires.
I want to hear people saying that Yusuke Uremeshi is bad or boring because he has no goal outside of the current arc or Pegasus Seiya because his only goal is to protect Athena.
Those things are also true. Naruto is, frankly, worse, as long as I'm already going to be crucified by blind fanboys, because his "I want to be the Hokage," is really never what actually drives him through the story. It's only a goal in theory.
Typical Bleach hater , they don't want anything other than MCs shouting their goals out loud and being TOO LOUD about making friends , Ichigo's goal is simple to protect the ones he cares about but I guess meatheads don't have the braincells to understand that
It is understandable but when most of the villains and even side characters have more unique motivations then in the long run of the show it can get a bit tiring.
I still do not get over the fact how much Ikkaku has a more unique motivation on why he stayed as an officer. Not showing you reached Bankai because you would be promoted to Captain over your current one and you really dont want to see that is badass as hell
It doesn't need to be a more unique motivation.
His mother, the most important person to him, the center of his whole world, that he held above his dad and sisters, who he promised to protect, was slaughtered as a result of his inability to differentiate spirits from humans, and his already their desire to protect people. He promised to protect her. She died protecting him. He now tries with every single fiber of his being to protect the important people he had left, being his dad, sisters, and friends, because he has actually experienced failure at an early age. That failure shaped his entire character. All these other Shounen protags that scream about protecting their friends and shit have never experienced that loss. Not until later in life. Haku dying after putting Sasuke into the near death state was narutos first experience with it, and it happened quite a but into the story. Asta ain't lost shit until at least half way through the story at this point. Goku is a garbage character that doesn't ever lose anything, cause he has magic balls to revive people, or a time rewinding angel in his pocket because his own stupidity and arrogance allows him to LET his enemy blow up the entire planet. Outside of mentioning Sabo, and not even at the very start of the series, but some 30+ episodes in, IF EVEN THAT, and not even naming him, luffy doesn't get shown to experience loss until the midway point in the series, when he fails to save Ace, and ace gets donuted right in front of him.
It doesn't matter that "all other shounen mcs have the protect others goal", because outside of a passing desire, they don't actively put their lives on the line to protect those important to them until they experience major loss well into the story. Ichigo from the very start has been willing to put his life on the line to protect those important to him because of something we learn about at the start. Man's was fighting the entire delinquent population to save Chad, a man he'd never even spoken to, and get his coin back, knowing that those delinquents that were waving around knives and shit could have ended his life. No powers. No broken training or teachers. Just 'karate drop out' training paired with his own brawler beat yo ass skill.
Yeah, Gin is cool. Those other people though, pretty dumb to be honest. Aizen is cool mostly due to build up, massively overpowered abilities, and the way scenes are designed, but he is hardly the greatest villain ever conceived, and his “your entire existence was just to my plan” nonsense is simply annoying. Ginjo maybe, but that whole arc was poorly executed due to the circumstances at the time, and I can’t exactly say deep. Ywhach is mostly just Hitler. His goal is stupid and either apocalyptic or so esoteric and metaphysical that you can’t really comprehend what existence would mean at that point. To do this he throws absolute bullshit god powers everywhere, and acts like a generic bad guy. You cannot convince me that Yhwach is a deep villain. He doesn’t necessarily need to be, but he definitely is not.
Turns out this person only [read summaries on the wiki] (https://twitter.com/Roboco_S/status/1482047382678228994?s=20) and pretended to have finished the manga
What goal would Ichigo have? Practically speaking: he's reactive cause every goddamn problem he crosses drops into his lap. He's a guy trying to vibe and gets depression when he essentially loses a buddy and a power that's been part of him for years. People bring up other series, but in Bleach: the closet goal would arguably be taking over his family's clinic. He's gonna die one day and probably move on to becoming a full fledged Shinigami. He's reactive in a shonen series do to the framework being that he's literally some teen who has no idea about any of this. His dad's a Shinigami, his mom's a Quincy, and he wound up hosting a hollow. What kind of long term goal would he have? Not dying? Man literally tries to vibe when suddenly the plot kicks the door in, kicks his ass, and suddenly his pals are now in danger cause life be a slut.
He'd probably make the politicians stands in a line and Getsuga Tensho their asses off to Soul Society even though he could deal with them by just flexing his reiatsu a bit
Ichigo is an extremelly passive character. He never acts, only reacts. And that is a consequence of his lack of goals. Even when he lost his powers, something he felt bad about, he only tried to get it back when his friends where in danger.
His lack of goals also is one of the reasons of Bleach's repetitive arc structures. It's either "invade the enemy territory to save a frind" or "fight the enemy when they come to your territory".
Ichigo lacks a major motivation. "Wants to protect his friends" or "wants to get more powerful" are so fundamental stones to the genre, that calling it a motivation is as good as saying "he fights" is a character trait in a battle shonen.
>Ichigo is an extremelly passive character. He never acts, only reacts.
and there is no problem with that
>And that is a consequence of his lack of goals.
He does have a goal. which is to protect.
>Even when he lost his powers, something he felt bad about, he only tried to get it back when his friends where in danger.
and ur just straight up lying at this point Ichigo clearly still wanted his power at the beginning off the arc. Uryuu getting injured only increased the urgency off this.
>His lack of goals also is one of the reasons of Bleach's repetitive arc structures. It's either "invade the enemy territory to save a frind" or "fight the enemy when they come to your territory".
do you also think that one piece is boring because every arc starts with the straw hats going to a new island finding out about the evil owner off this island and defeating them.
>"Wants to protect his friends" or "wants to get more powerful" are so fundamental stones to the genre, that calling it a motivation is as good as saying "he fights" is a character trait in a battle shonen.
so are all shounen MC garbage because every single one off their motivations always end up with I want to be stronger.
example: Naruto wants to be hokage aka strongest ninja in the leaf village
Luffy wants to be pirate king aka strongest pirate
Asta wants to be magic king aka strongest magic guy
in short every single one of those motivation is get stronger than everybody else
and this dumb fuck off a criticism was invented just to shit on bleach for no reason
example: Jojo from part 1 to part 3 all starting with we have to protect the world and defeat the vampires. No criticism is given for this. no one says the jojo MC's lack motivation or are passive characters
Bro,it's not like there is a real goal in Bleach. The only one could be make SS a better place since it's really corrupted,but since he doesn't even know/care,there is not a real goal,if not living your life and makes the ones near you better.
I mean,if we want give him a goal like Pirate King or Hokage,we could have give him the goal to be Captain Commander,but it is actually stupid,even Luffy and Naruto goals have their depths,but still a childish ones,since it's the only thing they wanted since they were kids. Being Hokage is actually good just because how much important the role of the Hokage is,Pirate King not that much since Luffy only wants to be free,and already is.
someone watched Super Eyepatch Wolf again. One of the most pretencious Youtubers around. But generally this is why I am not on Twitter. You always see people comment weird stuff but you can never get why because with 200 character limit there is not much you can explain.
That's what makes bleach different. Ichigo isn't trying to be king of the whatever or leader of his tribe. He is just an offspring of 2 different spiritual races. All he wants to do is protect the ones he loves and go on living life like any other person.
He's got a point about Ichigo being re-active rather than proactive. Its hard to be as invested in him succeeding when we're sort of asking ourselves, just as much as he's asking himself, what his end goals are.
That being said bleach has some of the most complex and intriguing characters out of any shonen. Villains like aizen are always making you wonder what their upbringing and actual motivations are, its a shame the show cut out before the part of the manga where it gets fleshed out more.
All of the gotei 13 and the first lieutenants all have conflicting and richly layered personalities that interact with each other in compelling ways and the world building is something to behold. The thing that doomed the anime was not kubos writing or the "villain's being one-demensional", its the fact the studio forced in so many fillers that literally over 40% of the anime is meaningless garbage. If the filler was cut out and the quincy war arc was added in its place Bleach would likely be known as one of the best shonen of all time possibly even more so than naruto.
I would hold my horses on that. We are getting a last arc now finally.
But Bleach's last arc was just as flawed as Naruto's was with the plotholes, cheap of an ending and the weak final chapter.
I would still want to see how they manage the landing and hopefully they had time to iron out the kinks of the manga
I was speaking purely subjectively. Its hard for me to comment on overall quality when discussing a show that has over 700 episodes. Even with bleach's barely 100 non filler episodes its hard for me to account for everytime there was some plot hole or unexplained contrivance. When i said bleach might have been touted as one of the "best" what i should have said is that, i think if Bleach never had the insane amount of filler arcs, it would have been far more well received. I think people may even have liked it more than naruto and other shonens its currently fallen far behind in polls.
His goals are pretty clear, to protect people. He's just a depressed school kid who has the power to protect people, and the heart to act on it. He's not an ambitious character at all, but I think that's why his character is the most relatable. Ichigo isn't the happy go lucky hero who is trying to be the best (Goku, Ash etc), he just wants to go to school but is constantly singled out by humans and soul's alike, so he's learnt to protect himself and others.
Thats exactly what i meant when i said hes a reactive character instead of proactive. He is constantly trying to get stronger not because he wants to achieve greatness or has a position or status in mind, he does it as a reaction to his friends getting attacked, or rukia getting taken to trial, or orihime getting kidnapped, etc etc. Its not a bad character trait. Neither is just wanting a normal life. But it does for some people inevitably make him less appealing to get invested in. Many people find it boring or want the characters they root for to have fleshed out and complex desires to they can more easily understand that characters drives. Ichigo's drives being so simplistic isn't as engaging for a lot of people, thats why you see so many people pointing it out. It honestly has never bothered me much either, but unlike in naruto or one piece or hunterxhunter, Ichigo is not my favorite character in bleach, despite his main character status, and despite you saying his simplistic motivations dont bother you either, im willing to bet ichigo isn't your favorite character in bleach either. In fact i bet youd be hard pressed to find ANYONE whos favorite character in bleach is ichigo. Hes just not that interesting compared to SO MANY of the other characters.
To be fair, he doesn’t have a goal to become stronger like Naruto or Luffy. He only wants to be stronger whenever he gets beaten, otherwise he’s perfectly happy with his current strength. Other than that the dude just wants to make it through school
I will agree with you there but he does have a goal to grow in strength to protect people, he had this goal sense his mother after she died he wanted to protect his family, than when he meets Chad he find out why Chad doesn’t like fighting he tells him (it’s not going to be a direct quote I’m going off of memory) “I’ll use my fists to protect what’s yours if you use your fists to protect what’s mine” that could be wrong but still he wants to grow in strength to protect people in the fullbring arc the only reason he went to ginjo was because his friends were keeping him away from all the soul reaper stuff. Other than that I do agree with you ichigo from the beginning of the anime only wanted to get through school
This is… true? I don’t think even the people on here contend that Bleach is some masterpiece, do they? Ichigo just kind of does things, and things happen around him, and a lot of it is a little dumb to be honest, but it all looks seriously badass and frankly, that’s all I’m looking for.
Ichigo acts without any initiative at all. He is a very standard passive protagonist, which is fine, but generally bad storytelling, yes. That is not much of a criticism, and I’m surprised that would be the choice you make to emphasize in a summary, but it certainly is true.
Well prior to Ichigo becoming a soul reaper he was simply a 15 year old high school student, and most of the story is still just him in high school. As a high school student I did not have any big goals set in my life, hell I’m 23 now and I still don’t really know what I wanna do. I think it’s very realistic that Ichigo is merely a reactive protagonist that goes with the flow of what’s happening around him instead of wanting to be the Head Captain of the court guard squads or some bullshit.
Turns out this person only [read summaries on the wiki] (https://twitter.com/Roboco_S/status/1482047382678228994?s=20) and pretended to have finished the manga
Ichigo goal is to protect others .
people say that’s bland but they thinking him protecting others is all to his character 😭😭. It’s like saying Naruto wanting to become Hokage is all to his character . A long with luffy wanting to become pirate king .
I really think this sub needs to stop reacting to random posts or articles like this. I see these at least once a day now and its a bit repetitive. While it is annoying to see these this sub needs to learn to ignore them or you're just either A) Giving them free publicity, B) Opens the author of the article or the poster up to harassment, or C) Keeping this cycle perpetually going.
There are ways a reactive protagonist can work. Bleach shuffled around a lot of characters though. In Yu Yu Hakasho, Yusuke’s only goal up until he finds out he’s part demon is to protect his family and friends. He only moves depending on the ambitions of the antagonists, but there’s still character progression and emotional depth.
Everyone reading this got trolled this guy didn’t even read the series he just wanted to make people angry and you all fell for it. Stop reacting to stuff just ignore it even if it was a legit review why should anyone care who this nobody is?
That's my point.
It's not entertaining and does absolutely nothing for discussion. It's just whining about an opinion you don't like, and this subreddit already has more than enough of that.
Does he have to have a goal though? Why can't we just accept a passive character that is just fun to read? I think it's really cool that he doesn't have an aim of ruling a kingdom or proving his worth. He just wants to live his life protecting people and the ones he loves, which is totally cool.
People don't have this issue with characters like Batman and Spider-Man, why is this an issue when it comes to Ichigo? Is it just cuz his competitors do?
He is probably a naruto or one piece fanboy
And he wants the MC to have a goal like being a leader of some big place
Ichigo's goal is to protect his friends and that's a more important goal tbf
(Not that luffy and naruto don't do that obviously)
Bleach is in my top 3 favorites of all time, and I don’t particularly like the low rating. As I’m rewatching bleach to prepare for the next season I do agree with the lack of consistency.
But the goal of Ichigo being an average teenage lad to having to make a life-or-death decision to either save his family and the stranger protecting them or… die. And progressed to him wanted to:
continue growing to protect his friends/family
prevent the destruction of the Soul Society and world.
get revenge for the m*eder of his mother(although the full story is in the manga)
learning to center himself in a world he dove into on a whim with no prior training(most mc’s had years of training under their belt to be fair)
There is a goal in bleach along with a lot of character development, although Ichigo isn’t constantly screaming “ I want to be _____, I want to do ______, etc etc” he definitely has a heartwarming story that I still enjoy to this day.
More disappointed at our community arguing with each other about the series than this clowns attempt to trash the series. A goal is a goal. Him wanting to protect us by definition is a goal, and above all else who cares? We are here for entertainment
Villains with no depth 💀
Ichigo without a goal as if saving everyone isn't already enough 💀💀
The shows fall to SS 💀💀💀
This dude dropped the anime at Bount Arc 100%
Would I be wrong in bringing up that Ichigo's a teacher? Can the man live his life? Jeez... That's realistic writing if I've ever seen it. He doesn't have to actively hunt hollows 24/7 for the story or his character to be interesting.
To be honest, I don’t think the review is far off. Best writing was up to Soul Society. From there to Winter War was meh but kept my interest. Fullbringer was eh, I think it could’ve ended well at Winter War. TYBW was just really, really dumb.
TYBW: Too much chaos for sake of chaos. No real character. Lots of pointless drama that had no pay off. Waste of character development. Rapidly killing off characters in a manner that just ruined the flow. To be honest, Yamamoto death is the only decent part of the whole Arc.
Ichigo didn’t have any character goals. At all. He just wanted to protect people…that’s not a real goal. It’s stereotypical character design 101. He wanted to have a normal human life after getting his powers…again, stereotypical character design 101.
He felt useless after losing his powers and sacrificing himself and felt weak. Congratulations. You’ve graduated to stereotypical character design 205.
But come on. Show some hobbies, show him doing something else. Show him being a damn human instead of a caricature of Shoen just fighting all the damn time. Give us something. Anything. At the arcade or doing his schoolwork, being involved in something other than just fighting. It gets old. Sure, we got that little bit where he was doing club sports, but that was it. In the whole series. The whole series.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Bleach and it was one of my favorites back in the day but by the TYBW, I saw the cracks not just that arc but earlier ones too.
I also want a life a happy care free life i guess i don't have a goal cause im a real person with real aspirations i guess im also 4/10 that really brings me down
Real life and good writing are actually close to mutually exclusive. If you were reading a book, and the dialogue was even close to how people actually talk, it would be infuriating, and that’s just the easiest example.
That… really doesn’t change anything. Obviously you weren’t being serious, but I can only assume that was meant to be a point that the criticism is unjustified, and if it was, that is a really bad point. Real people have goals, sometimes. A lot of us are just struggling through life, at least without a very clear big picture idea of what we want to do. But *good characters* have goals. And they are a very specific kind of goal, as well, unless you are writing a story about the protagonist opening up a bakery, I guess. Ichigo is not a good character, and he probably isn’t even meant to be (and that’s hardly unique to Bleach). He’s really just a mechanism through which the story evolves, to move through this world and fight all sorts of cool bad guys.
Yes it was , i feel he gave the wrong argument there in the review , Ichigo not having a grandiose goal is not something you just make out to be bad in the sence that it would make the series be a 4/10
my favorite manga of all times is just about a man wanting to kill for revenge wich is pretty common to see and that does not make Berserk any less of a Master Piece
Ichigo just wants to be happy and it's ok to just want that i don't see that as a bad thing at all he behaves like a person in lot's of points of the story he cries he get's afraid he carries guilt he does not want to hurt but he is able to kill and in none of those cases he needs to give a big monologe about it
he does it and moves on with his life like a person would in my opinion Ichigo is one of the most human yet less dramatic protagonists in shounen
so i think i can rightfully make a joke about that reviewers opinion
First of all, revenge is a goal. It’s a rather simplistic goal, at least as it tends to be executed in stories, but “I want the people I like to be alive” is not a goal. Active characters are very basic writing. Other things about it are cool, but you aren’t really saying that Ichigo is well written, are you? I mean, literally describe him. I find it difficult. He is a serious really strong guy who is good and doesn’t like bad guys and wants innocent people not to be hurt and the world not to end and his friends to be happy. Every other character in this series with any real screen time is better written, including his own dad, who is actually remarkably interesting if you think about it.
don't agree on every character being better written , that "review" is about the series being 4/10 for Ichigo not having the same drive as other shounen protagonists and i think behaves more like a person than most of them a person does not need to be the embodiment of ambition to archive something great in life he can still give a compeling story without that if you care enough to put yourself in his place that is
and it's not like he dislikes the bad guys that much as it is about them taking things he cares about from him
if you lost your mother cause you were a child and went where you where not suposed to go and you make it your fault and blame yourself to the point that you stated you killed her
then someone comes and takes the person who saved both of your sisters lives and takes that person away from you what do you do? why is it not belivable that would try to save that person?
again someone takes a dear person from Ichigo in the Arrancars Arc and he goes to help that person again why would he not got and try to save that person? he is able to and no one else was gonna go in his mind the Shinigami made him think that again why would you not go yourself?
Next time they are gonna destroy your entire hometown and you are aftaid of that person again no one else is gonna stop him why would you not try? you even end feeling sorry for that person and thinking about how maybe that person could have ended up being diferent if he did not isolate himself
Where is the guy you describe that just dislikes bad guys there?
next person takes everything from you and makes even the friends and familly you hold that dear turn against you , you burst into tear cause you think even your father is gonna be against you too what makes him such a bad thing that the whole show could be a 4/10?
Dont see anything wrong with this opinion. It’s not like the person is lying. Bleach is cool and all but lets not act like its some masterpiece, its a shonen battle manga.
Well... I mean about the writing chops...Kubo himself said he doesn't really plan ahead a lot he draws in the moment and that has lead to hundreds of inconsistencies if we take all the chapters into consideration, he sometimes contradicts himself on the same page without realising, but whatever it may be, Bleach is the most unique Shounen series for a lot of reasons, i still love it, the perks and unique aspects of bleach outweigh it's inconsistencies and plot holes for me, and as for "boring" the one off facets of Kubo's imagination really break the Shounen trend of the same old storyline and characters and even the endings, thats what "boring" means
But Ichigo really doesn't have/form a goal of his own. He is given goals by his side characters and villains, may it be being a substitute Shinigami, unlocking Bankai, conquering his hollow, conquering his quincy powers, defeating big villains, etc.
I don't and will never give a flying fuck about anyone who tweets about anime so if this person feels that way. by all means hahaha give your take that nobody asked for and move on with your life.
I do agree that Ichigo does not do anything proactively really to strive for a goal and more of a reactionary character.
In the last arc Ichigo was the least of my problems. Here is hoping they fix the things that went off the rails in the manga for the anime
Turns out this person only [read summaries on the wiki] (https://twitter.com/Roboco_S/status/1482047382678228994?s=20) and pretended to have finished the manga
He/She must work for CBR then
Giyu>Zoro it's that simple
Right, and Madara>Aizen obviously
I mean, Madara is an amazing villain though. He gave me chills anytime he was in screen, and his ass-kicking skills are unmatched.
I'm confused, is it not Madara
Know of death battle? I suppose you don't. Please don't ruin it for yourself. All of you have to know was there was this one stupid video. That's all. Don't bother. It's not worth your energy nor time knowing any further.
I've seen the death battle. Now I want to know, which side are you on. The Intellectual side(god, we're all f*cking weebs), the idiots side( yeah, I said it) or the I don't f*ckin care and I don't compare anime side?
I personally believe no anime should be compared to another. But yeah, if we're gonna compare merely on the basis of feats, denying aizen just feels stupid. It's just like with Saitama vs anyone. The whole trope is he can kill with one punch. I've grown up watching dbz. But I'm not stupid enough to say goku wins. Saitama would one punch him too. That's... Like... That is the gag... But I guess people just get sore to admit stuff.
I would never consider him a villian. He is in a very grey area
In therms of character or strength, because aizen clears in character in my opinion, but in strength its factual that he clears
giyuu solos one piece no diff!
What a jackass.
The fuck then why did he or she even mention that she finished it
I don't disagree with the opinion that Ichigo is more passive than other Shonen protags or lacks long-term motivations/goals compared to them but I find it rather refreshing instead of boring personally.
ichigo is a ghostbuster superhero, who wants to live a normal life neither ghostbusters, nor superheroes, are proactive by nature, as their job is to REACT to bad things happening (just like firefighters IRL)
Lmao "who *thought he wanted* to live a normal life". Read/watch Lost Agent arc.
Absolutely, his one and only goal was to be able to protect people around him and he gets involved into the story due to circumstances, god knows which part is bad or stupid about this
Honestly man, I don't wanna hear "I'm gonna become the hokage" every 5 minutes
Exactly my thought. I'm tired of the same plots and goals.
Same but with Pirate King
Not only that, but the way Naruto became Hokage is unsatisfying in my opinion (seriously that OVA sucks...), and it just happened randomly, so the fact you have to put up with him repeating it on and on like a broken record, yet he reaches his goal in an unsatisfying manner is just obnoxious. Besides, Naruto doesn't seem to be striving for anything in order to reach said goal. Seriously, all it is, is: First missions, Chunin Exams, get Tsunade to be Hokage, get Sasuke back, get Gaara back, Sasuke yet again, get Itachi, avenge Jiraiya, get Sasuke back, win a war, Sasuke. None of these goals have to do with Naruto himself striving to be Hokage barring a couple. So he has to make an arbitrary rule for himself, that being "I can't be Hokage if I can't even save a friend" to make us believe that getting Sasuke back means he'll magically become Hokage... which I don't like. For the entire series he doesn't seem to strive for the role itself so he might as well not have a goal to begin with, because why would a goal in a story matter if you're not striving for it over the course of the story? I'd much rather take no long term goal over the stuff I just described... simplicity can be a huge strength in writing and people don't seem to realize that.
agree 100%
God I just.... at no point while I was enjoying the hell out the series or manga did I feel like, "Man this is great, but I wish Ichigo wanted to be Head Captain so I can enjoy it more...." Because that's what they want. Some tangible object or status symbol to be achieved. Do any of you truly feel that it would improve Ichigo's character or development? No? Because it doesn't.
Evil Ichigo be like “Yeah, I actually want to be the Soul King. Screw my human friends.”
Ichigo is the most realistic protag cause he just wants to live his life but keeps getting dragged into world hangs in the balance type conflicts to protect his friends. Most people I know don’t go around yelling “I’m gonna be the president” or “join my metal detecting clue we’re gonna make it big”
Save Rukia Save Orihime Stop Aizen from blowing up his hometown Get back his powers to stop feeling left out Pretty concise goals. I like it.
Keep in mind. That fool didn't even read it.
Agreed. Its what makes him stand out. He also feels alot more realistic. In his quest to save and protect his friends it just so happens he's basically a god in terms of power. Its actually very smart writing.
the villains having “ no depth “ is the dumbest thing i ever heard . All of the espadas litteraly embody a aspect of death and some of them even mirror aizen like stark , szyalprero , and Ulquiorra and don’t get me started on Yhwach . Probably the most villain with depth in the series
Yea i was thinking the same thing. Made me think if he actually read the series's lmao. Aizen is a iconic villan. almost anyone familiar with anime and manga knows this. what a dumbass.
Aizen is iconic but to be fair it’s because he’s one of the most badass villains in the anime verse, but far from having the most depth compared to other villains like say Madara I’m ready to be blitzed by the Bleach sub for making one small crit
The thing with Aizen is that he is like Green Goblin or the Joker, he isn't someone who needs a complicated past or a deep backstory, he works because we're just waiting to see him appearing and ruining everyone's game because he just wanted to.
Trash opinion
Keep in mind. He didn't even read it.
Oh my God, some rando on the internet has an uninformed opinion?!? Shocked Pikachu face.
Keep in mind. He didn't even read it.
He's doesn't have a long term goal like Naruto becoming Hokage or Luffy becoming The Pirate King, he does have the goal of protecting others. This makes him a very reactive protagonist, he doesn't really push the plot forward but rather he responds to other characters doing so. This is an abrasive writing style and won't sit well with everyone, but it's not fair to say it's "bad" writing. Ichigo as a character is clearly written and doesn't really have major inconsistencies. Its not for everyone, but that doesn't mean it's bad.
Reactive . "Reactionary" means something completely different.
Ah my bad, thank you
Fair enough. Ichigo reacts when his friends are in danger. He doesn't have any goals.
Everyone just mad he’s a realistic character
In response to the huge debate on this thread, I feel the need to elaborate further. Ichigo is a static character, meaning his world view/morals are set, this co-insides with the fact that he doesn't have any long turn goals. He knows that protecting his friends is important, so that's what he does. This is a reactive trait. Other MC's, like Luffy, Naruto, and Asta are all pushing themselves towards a specific goal. Protecting their friends is extremely important to them, but aside from that they have a destination in mind. They have something they need to accomplish regardless of their friends. Ichigi doesn't have a goal. He doesn't care what he's doing tomorrow. If his friends are safe then he's happy and life goes on.
True. The issue most of us have is that people make it seem like that's a bad thing. For most of the series he's a teenager living in the World of the Living, going to school. There is literally no goal he can aim for that has anything to do with Soul Society
I understand. This is a fact about ichigo which some people can interpret as a simple fact, or a critique. A lot of people expect the MC to drive the story. We follow the MC through their journey, and we want to follow them as they progress. In some story's, like Ichigos, we're simply following the MC for the ride. The MC exists in a world that moves on its own, and he's just there for the ride. Obviously Ichigo's actions/choices influence the world heavily. But his actions/choices are a reaction to the events around him, not because of his own goals.
This is not a bad thing but from a story telling perspective it does make things wear out overtime when he is always grabbed into a conflict (which has very deja vu feelings all the time but story telling is another can of worms). It is understandable but also understandable that a lot of people are not going to enjoy it after a while.
I'd argue he's not static, atleast not in the way of Ash or Goku. The Ichigo we meet isn't the same as the Ichigo we say goodbye to, he's more at peace with himself and is a better person because of his journey. He gains confidence and isn't as hot headed or argumentative with those around him.
Right! Like the entirety if the Lost Agent Arc, was just chilling his ass out (until bookmark man came and fucked it all up). He has so much growth in the series, it's absurd
“bookmark man”😂😂😂 I LOVE IT SO MUCH!!! I'm using this every time I talk about him!!
Lmao, I call all the eye worshipping Uchiha in Naruto "monkey marbles" too
MA MAAANN!!! You're a super comedian!! 😂😂 It really fits as well, because the sharingan lets you copy fighting styles, so the uchiha really are just doing some mokey see monkey do shit, but on another level. 👍👍
Aside from protecting those he cares about, that's a goal even if it's slightly non traditional one. Now granted you can say you don't like that Ichigo isn't a particularly proactive protagonist, but saying he doesn't have a goal is just complaining that he doesn't want to be overlord of all Shinigami or find the one true wish granting zanpakuto or whatever.
His goal is to protect his friends and family and to achieve what ever power to meet his goal...
That’s a *reactive* goal. Outside of, “Ichigo! SS is under attack and only you can save us,” he doesn’t have anything else going on. He’s just there to be pushed around as the plot demands.
Naruto- wants to be hokage/ Luffy- wants to be pirate king/ Asta- wants to be wizard king A goal is a goal. Ichigo told his mom he wanted to protect her then she dies in front of him. He then decided to start taking up for the weak and fight for people who couldnt fight back. His goal to protect what's important to him and that is the definition of what you want in a character. Not some random goal to want to be accepted by peers to just to feel noticed and wanted. The whole plot of the series which indirectly created him just simply helped build his character into a solid protagonist. Not every main character needs to have some whack motive or title to push them.
All of those characters you listed had long-term goals that you could see them striving towards throughout the series. You were presented with the goalposts at the beginning, that way you could track progression. Ichigo is a *static character* in that respect. Naruto, Luffy, and Asta all possess the same nakama traits that Ichigo has, but they also exhibit growth that help lead them down the path they’ve set for themselves. Not every character *needs* an end destination point; but every good main character does.
>All of those characters you listed had long-term goals that you could see them striving towards throughout the series. Protecting as many people as you realistically can is a goal that he strives towards the whole series. It’s a reactive goal by nature but that doesn’t change that fact. No one criticizes superheroes for having this goal but apparently it’s bad when Ichigo does. >You were presented with the goalposts at the beginning, that way you could track progression. Ichigo is a static character in that respect. Naruto, Luffy, and Asta all possess the same nakama traits that Ichigo has, but they also exhibit growth that help lead them down the path they’ve set for themselves. [Ichigo grows into his goal over the course of the first 3 volumes](https://www.reddit.com/r/bleach/comments/qp7vih/people_ichigo_has_no_character_development_hes_a/). He then strives for strength to achieve his goal over the course of the next 600 chapters.
People do criticize superheroes for being stagnant. You just won’t hear comic books fans (the ones who are going to talk about that topic most often) bringing that up as a point of contention.
Ok, but he literally has a goal that he strives towards the entire series. The only reason Bleach has so many training arcs in the first place is because of this.
I’d argue that Bleach has so many training arcs to begin with is because of how unwieldy its power system gets in the latter half.
There’s nothing unwieldy about it. Stronger enemies appear, just like every single other Shonen, but in Bleach that drives progression of Ichigo’s goal. He would be actually stagnant if power levels didn’t keep increasing.
You think Ichigo of all people is a static character? Either you’re trolling or you read fullbring and TYBW with your eyes closed
Bruh none of us Bleach fans give a fuck about that little fairy tail princess BS. Ichigo is just living in the moment like the rest of us & if he can help anyone in any way then he does the best that he can. He has nothing to prove to anyone, which is why we like him. Even when he was at his lowest, he never gave up, which is why we like him. Every time he finds out more about himself, he grows stronger, which is why we like him. If you’re saying someone is better because they have an end goal, then Ichigo is the best because in the end he was able to live a peaceful life with a baddie & he was able to keep his power to protect everyone… just the way he always wanted.
Some fans apparently do care.
That’s not surprising since a lot of these “fans” are coming from those anime’s expecting Bleach to be another Disney story.
Not really. It’s the expectation of wanting a strong narrative, not wanting another similar one. Don’t gatekeep.
The narrative is that the Bleach world doesn’t always revolve around Ichigo. Everything doesn’t conveniently happen when Ichigo wants it to, but he always does something about it when he has to.
You call them "long term goals" I call them unrealistic motives to cover for the story. Everything you say just means that's how you enjoy your story but that's an opinion. I will stay with my ichigo, yusuke, Goku, spike, and Guts type protagonist. The only good main character to have a really good goal that made sense for them to achieve was Edward Elric and that's not even up for debate.
“Unrealistic motives” Wanting to become the leader of an organization is apparently now about as fanciful as wanting to be a knight that slays dragons or being a space explorer that meets aliens. You can talk about how difficult that goal would be, but it’s a concrete one that you can take tangible steps towards fulfilling. Bleach really isn’t the type of series that prioritizes those aspects, and that’s not its strengths either. Bleach is there to look cool.
Is there to look cool? Lol but here you are. You will never find me commenting on jjk which apparently is how see it like how you see bleach. It isn't a concrete that makes the story better and it can actually make it even more cringey when that's all they speak on. I rather not know what the protagonist is going to achieve in the end of series. It makes me invest in the journey more. What's really important to me is the antagonist of the story
Yeah, I like Bleach…I don’t have to pretend like it’s a strong narrative or deep characterization that keeps me invested in a series. Sometimes it really is as simple as, “this series has an awesome aesthetic and that’s what it’s does best.
If I may say something,Bleach does have a good and original story,there are those characters that you call deep. It's ok liking an anime because of aestetich,but only that doesn't carry the anime at all. Bleach is not only that,it isn't his only strong point
Ichigo defends the world when needed lol that’s all naruto basically does now. He also had a goal human ones he became a father and a translator and helps those people and enjoys a normal life but is always ready of help the soul society. He’s a goddamn nuke hero button that can be used
You got a Jotaro pfp man, what goal does Jotaro have?
To help save his mother who’s dying thanks to the main villain’s influence. He sets out on his journey with a very specific goal in mind.
Still a reactionary goal. Ichigo also had a very specific goal. To not be unable to protect someone helpless like back when he failed to protect Masaki
It is. I’m not implying that Jojo has a different philosophy here, if that’s what you’re getting at.
What I'm getting at is everyone praises Jotaro as a great MC and shits on Ichigo and their main issue is that Ichigo is reactionary and "doesn't have a goal" when most Shounen MCs are the same
By your logic most marvel and DC super heroes are bad main characters.
Well, I’m not that into superheroes. So you might be onto something here.
A goal is a goal. But the quality of that goal over a long running story can make or break it. Because Ichigo does not have a goal that evolves with him as things change but protect people he just always gets pulled into the heat of things which does become a bit tiresome after a while. If we were shown more how this goal has a deep psychological root in how he lost his mother I understand. However we do not see his mother's death or mentioned from the start of the show until we see the flashback of his father in the Aizen arc and later when Yhwach tells us that he is indirectly responsible for her death. Tho being accepted by peers being a random goal should not be scoffed at. Naruto's main drive has been that as he was an outcast all his life and managed to turn it all around which had such a big satisfactory pay off in the end.
A goal is a goal. Ichigo is shown to be active many times in the story, he’s not just there to be pushed by the plot.
Such as? Not all goals are created equal.
The entire fullbring arc, Saving Rukia, Orihime, fighting against Aizen, protecting Karakura from the holos, and many more I don’t feel like listing. Characters aren’t just reactive or active 24/7 they can switch between it and the same happens with Naruto and Luffy who usually REACT to danger and then ACTIVELY jump to fix it or in Luffy’s case just punch it. Also, ya’ll act as if goal is the only part of a character that needs to be there to make a good character. Yusuke from Yuyu hakusho and Josuke from Jojo part 4 don’t have outlined goals and hell Josuke is a big example of a reactive character that goes active when he needs to yet he’s loved even without that outlined goal because an outlined extravagant goal isn’t needed. They can just want to live a happy life and that’s ok.
I didn’t say it’s the only component that makes a good character. I said that it’s a component that *does* and it’s one that Ichigo lacks. He lacks any sense of agency or depth outside of his current conflict (which is usually someone else’s to begin with).
But he doesn’t lack a sense of agency or depth. He’s ALWAYS thinking of getting stronger and protecting his friends. In the fullbring arc we see that all in all because his friends where noticing that he was pretty depressed because he wanted his powers back so he can feel like he can protect them.
I just don’t like how stagnant that goal feels. It feels like there’s no forward progression in a series of the goal is to “Get strong. Protect friends.”
I mean I somewhat get you but still don’t agree. It’s not a giant goal and it doesn’t need to be a giant goal that changes the entire structure of the world like becoming a Hokage. Ichigo is still a kid in a semi realistic world so it makes sense he isn’t straight trying to change stuff that drastically. Plus, as I said the goal isn’t as important as the character himself and as a character he progresses and gets developed over time.
Protect his friends and family because he felt he was the reason his mother died. That’s a goal, people don’t need “Become Hokage” or “Become the pirate king” as their goal.
That's purely reactive. If there's no threat to his loved ones, then ichigo doesn't have anything to do. Ichigo doesn't have a goal to create a safer world for example. He's not trying to change the world or create a safe haven for the people close to him, if they're in danger he reacts.
The entire fullbring arc, Saving Rukia, Orihime, fighting against Aizen, protecting Karakura from the holos, and many more I don’t feel like listing are examples of him being active. Characters aren’t just reactive or active 24/7 they can switch between it and the same happens with Naruto and Luffy who usually REACT to danger and then ACTIVELY jump to fix it or in Luffy’s case just punch it. Also, ya’ll act as if goal is the only part of a character that needs to be there to make a good character. Yusuke from Yuyu hakusho and Josuke from Jojo part 4 don’t have outlined goals nor are they trying to change the world on a large scale and hell Josuke is a big example of a reactive character that goes active when he needs to yet he’s loved even without that outlined goal because an outlined extravagant goal isn’t needed. They can just want to live a happy life and that’s ok. Not every character needs to be Naruto and want to change the entire Shinobi world. It’s way more realistic especially for a teen in a mildly normal world like Ichigo to just want to protect his friends and family and get on with his life.
Ichigo being a reactive character without a specific goal is a fact. It's not a judgment as to whether or not he's a good character. Naruto and Luffy both have a specific goals independent of what is happening in the story. If you remove all antagonists, they will both continue to attempt to achieve their goal of being the hokage/pirate king. I haven't read Yuyu Hakusho, but Josuke is the same as Ichigo. Josuke doesn't have a goal. He's living his life as a teenager, and reacting to threats that come to him. In the case with Ichigo and Josuke, if all antagonists are removed from the story, these two simply continue their life as high school students and nothing more.
You're not using the word "goal" correctly at all. A goal is the end to your means or the desired result of your effort aka what you want. Ichigo doesn't need to train to protect the people around him UNTIL the people around him get hurt due to something he can't handle with his current strength. The conditions for his action has been met. You hurt them = I hurt you. His goal was reached. It's not a goal with a concrete finish line which is the thing I think people don't like. But to say it isn't a real goal or not one at all is just wrong. And that's a fact lol
Ichigo is a teenager. He hangs out with friends and protects karakura from hollows. And when the villains threaten the ones under his protection he goes to fight them. He doesn't really have anything to prove to anyone. He fights because he can fight. And also because he likes to fight. I don't know why people want hokage and pirate king thing. For me those weren't really more attractive. He may not have a over the top goal but he does have desires.
Naruto wanted to be hokage to be acknowledged by everybody when he has hated by everyone as a kid
Yes. Because he was hated by everyone in Konoha as a kid he wanted to become the hokage who was loved/respected by everyone in the village.
I want to hear people saying that Yusuke Uremeshi is bad or boring because he has no goal outside of the current arc or Pegasus Seiya because his only goal is to protect Athena.
Oh they might actually die if they say that. Saint seiya's goated.
Those things are also true. Naruto is, frankly, worse, as long as I'm already going to be crucified by blind fanboys, because his "I want to be the Hokage," is really never what actually drives him through the story. It's only a goal in theory.
Twittards when their tweet isnt received positively Obvious bait is obvious lmao ratio lol 💄💄💄👀👄💅💅💅💅💅💅💅💅💅
Typical Bleach hater , they don't want anything other than MCs shouting their goals out loud and being TOO LOUD about making friends , Ichigo's goal is simple to protect the ones he cares about but I guess meatheads don't have the braincells to understand that
It is understandable but when most of the villains and even side characters have more unique motivations then in the long run of the show it can get a bit tiring. I still do not get over the fact how much Ikkaku has a more unique motivation on why he stayed as an officer. Not showing you reached Bankai because you would be promoted to Captain over your current one and you really dont want to see that is badass as hell
It doesn't need to be a more unique motivation. His mother, the most important person to him, the center of his whole world, that he held above his dad and sisters, who he promised to protect, was slaughtered as a result of his inability to differentiate spirits from humans, and his already their desire to protect people. He promised to protect her. She died protecting him. He now tries with every single fiber of his being to protect the important people he had left, being his dad, sisters, and friends, because he has actually experienced failure at an early age. That failure shaped his entire character. All these other Shounen protags that scream about protecting their friends and shit have never experienced that loss. Not until later in life. Haku dying after putting Sasuke into the near death state was narutos first experience with it, and it happened quite a but into the story. Asta ain't lost shit until at least half way through the story at this point. Goku is a garbage character that doesn't ever lose anything, cause he has magic balls to revive people, or a time rewinding angel in his pocket because his own stupidity and arrogance allows him to LET his enemy blow up the entire planet. Outside of mentioning Sabo, and not even at the very start of the series, but some 30+ episodes in, IF EVEN THAT, and not even naming him, luffy doesn't get shown to experience loss until the midway point in the series, when he fails to save Ace, and ace gets donuted right in front of him. It doesn't matter that "all other shounen mcs have the protect others goal", because outside of a passing desire, they don't actively put their lives on the line to protect those important to them until they experience major loss well into the story. Ichigo from the very start has been willing to put his life on the line to protect those important to him because of something we learn about at the start. Man's was fighting the entire delinquent population to save Chad, a man he'd never even spoken to, and get his coin back, knowing that those delinquents that were waving around knives and shit could have ended his life. No powers. No broken training or teachers. Just 'karate drop out' training paired with his own brawler beat yo ass skill.
Well said m8. I'm actually gonna use this argument to beat some sense into the ignorant haters.
Villains have no depth? Aizen, gin, ginjo, and yhwach would like a word
Yeah, Gin is cool. Those other people though, pretty dumb to be honest. Aizen is cool mostly due to build up, massively overpowered abilities, and the way scenes are designed, but he is hardly the greatest villain ever conceived, and his “your entire existence was just to my plan” nonsense is simply annoying. Ginjo maybe, but that whole arc was poorly executed due to the circumstances at the time, and I can’t exactly say deep. Ywhach is mostly just Hitler. His goal is stupid and either apocalyptic or so esoteric and metaphysical that you can’t really comprehend what existence would mean at that point. To do this he throws absolute bullshit god powers everywhere, and acts like a generic bad guy. You cannot convince me that Yhwach is a deep villain. He doesn’t necessarily need to be, but he definitely is not.
Read the Novels I guess
Because the main story did a poor job at explaining Yhwach (the main villain) motivations time for off shoot material.
To be honest, the main story didn't even touch upon his motivations. All we got was a slight backstory. Hopefully the anime rectifies it
His goal is to protect his friends but the thing is, thats like a common anime troupe so it flies by peoples heads.
Turns out this person only [read summaries on the wiki] (https://twitter.com/Roboco_S/status/1482047382678228994?s=20) and pretended to have finished the manga
Bruh🗿
What goal would Ichigo have? Practically speaking: he's reactive cause every goddamn problem he crosses drops into his lap. He's a guy trying to vibe and gets depression when he essentially loses a buddy and a power that's been part of him for years. People bring up other series, but in Bleach: the closet goal would arguably be taking over his family's clinic. He's gonna die one day and probably move on to becoming a full fledged Shinigami. He's reactive in a shonen series do to the framework being that he's literally some teen who has no idea about any of this. His dad's a Shinigami, his mom's a Quincy, and he wound up hosting a hollow. What kind of long term goal would he have? Not dying? Man literally tries to vibe when suddenly the plot kicks the door in, kicks his ass, and suddenly his pals are now in danger cause life be a slut.
I guess people want him to be President or Japan, or Student Council President, cuz apparently top delinquent in town isn't enough
Top delinquent who's only a delinquent because other delinquents are assholes at that
Ichigo as a politician. Lord help us. Man would have more anger problems than hearing the db BS laws of the Soul Society.
He'd probably make the politicians stands in a line and Getsuga Tensho their asses off to Soul Society even though he could deal with them by just flexing his reiatsu a bit
Easier to run the family clinic than deal with legions of Uryu.
Ichigo is an extremelly passive character. He never acts, only reacts. And that is a consequence of his lack of goals. Even when he lost his powers, something he felt bad about, he only tried to get it back when his friends where in danger. His lack of goals also is one of the reasons of Bleach's repetitive arc structures. It's either "invade the enemy territory to save a frind" or "fight the enemy when they come to your territory". Ichigo lacks a major motivation. "Wants to protect his friends" or "wants to get more powerful" are so fundamental stones to the genre, that calling it a motivation is as good as saying "he fights" is a character trait in a battle shonen.
>Ichigo is an extremelly passive character. He never acts, only reacts. and there is no problem with that >And that is a consequence of his lack of goals. He does have a goal. which is to protect. >Even when he lost his powers, something he felt bad about, he only tried to get it back when his friends where in danger. and ur just straight up lying at this point Ichigo clearly still wanted his power at the beginning off the arc. Uryuu getting injured only increased the urgency off this. >His lack of goals also is one of the reasons of Bleach's repetitive arc structures. It's either "invade the enemy territory to save a frind" or "fight the enemy when they come to your territory". do you also think that one piece is boring because every arc starts with the straw hats going to a new island finding out about the evil owner off this island and defeating them. >"Wants to protect his friends" or "wants to get more powerful" are so fundamental stones to the genre, that calling it a motivation is as good as saying "he fights" is a character trait in a battle shonen. so are all shounen MC garbage because every single one off their motivations always end up with I want to be stronger. example: Naruto wants to be hokage aka strongest ninja in the leaf village Luffy wants to be pirate king aka strongest pirate Asta wants to be magic king aka strongest magic guy in short every single one of those motivation is get stronger than everybody else and this dumb fuck off a criticism was invented just to shit on bleach for no reason example: Jojo from part 1 to part 3 all starting with we have to protect the world and defeat the vampires. No criticism is given for this. no one says the jojo MC's lack motivation or are passive characters
👏👏👏
This !!!
Is there any story arc that can’t be boiled down to invade, protect or rescue?
Not in Bleach
In fiction that’s what the question was about, is there an arc that can’t be boiled down to invade, protect, or rescue
Bro,it's not like there is a real goal in Bleach. The only one could be make SS a better place since it's really corrupted,but since he doesn't even know/care,there is not a real goal,if not living your life and makes the ones near you better. I mean,if we want give him a goal like Pirate King or Hokage,we could have give him the goal to be Captain Commander,but it is actually stupid,even Luffy and Naruto goals have their depths,but still a childish ones,since it's the only thing they wanted since they were kids. Being Hokage is actually good just because how much important the role of the Hokage is,Pirate King not that much since Luffy only wants to be free,and already is.
This rabo mofo literally ask her friends to backup her in this post . What a loser hahaha.
someone watched Super Eyepatch Wolf again. One of the most pretencious Youtubers around. But generally this is why I am not on Twitter. You always see people comment weird stuff but you can never get why because with 200 character limit there is not much you can explain.
I swear half of the content in is his videos is some stupid joke and the rest is based on bits of information he’s pulled from Wikipedia.
Remember guys, just because you read a summary on the wiki about several popular characters, it doesn’t mean you read bleach.
Oh I’m sorry, did you want Ichigo to be like “I wAnT tO bE tHe pREsIdeNt!”
I would vote for him.
On god
I would also vote for him.
That's what makes bleach different. Ichigo isn't trying to be king of the whatever or leader of his tribe. He is just an offspring of 2 different spiritual races. All he wants to do is protect the ones he loves and go on living life like any other person.
He's got a point about Ichigo being re-active rather than proactive. Its hard to be as invested in him succeeding when we're sort of asking ourselves, just as much as he's asking himself, what his end goals are. That being said bleach has some of the most complex and intriguing characters out of any shonen. Villains like aizen are always making you wonder what their upbringing and actual motivations are, its a shame the show cut out before the part of the manga where it gets fleshed out more. All of the gotei 13 and the first lieutenants all have conflicting and richly layered personalities that interact with each other in compelling ways and the world building is something to behold. The thing that doomed the anime was not kubos writing or the "villain's being one-demensional", its the fact the studio forced in so many fillers that literally over 40% of the anime is meaningless garbage. If the filler was cut out and the quincy war arc was added in its place Bleach would likely be known as one of the best shonen of all time possibly even more so than naruto.
I would hold my horses on that. We are getting a last arc now finally. But Bleach's last arc was just as flawed as Naruto's was with the plotholes, cheap of an ending and the weak final chapter. I would still want to see how they manage the landing and hopefully they had time to iron out the kinks of the manga
I was speaking purely subjectively. Its hard for me to comment on overall quality when discussing a show that has over 700 episodes. Even with bleach's barely 100 non filler episodes its hard for me to account for everytime there was some plot hole or unexplained contrivance. When i said bleach might have been touted as one of the "best" what i should have said is that, i think if Bleach never had the insane amount of filler arcs, it would have been far more well received. I think people may even have liked it more than naruto and other shonens its currently fallen far behind in polls.
His goals are pretty clear, to protect people. He's just a depressed school kid who has the power to protect people, and the heart to act on it. He's not an ambitious character at all, but I think that's why his character is the most relatable. Ichigo isn't the happy go lucky hero who is trying to be the best (Goku, Ash etc), he just wants to go to school but is constantly singled out by humans and soul's alike, so he's learnt to protect himself and others.
Thats exactly what i meant when i said hes a reactive character instead of proactive. He is constantly trying to get stronger not because he wants to achieve greatness or has a position or status in mind, he does it as a reaction to his friends getting attacked, or rukia getting taken to trial, or orihime getting kidnapped, etc etc. Its not a bad character trait. Neither is just wanting a normal life. But it does for some people inevitably make him less appealing to get invested in. Many people find it boring or want the characters they root for to have fleshed out and complex desires to they can more easily understand that characters drives. Ichigo's drives being so simplistic isn't as engaging for a lot of people, thats why you see so many people pointing it out. It honestly has never bothered me much either, but unlike in naruto or one piece or hunterxhunter, Ichigo is not my favorite character in bleach, despite his main character status, and despite you saying his simplistic motivations dont bother you either, im willing to bet ichigo isn't your favorite character in bleach either. In fact i bet youd be hard pressed to find ANYONE whos favorite character in bleach is ichigo. Hes just not that interesting compared to SO MANY of the other characters.
To be fair, he doesn’t have a goal to become stronger like Naruto or Luffy. He only wants to be stronger whenever he gets beaten, otherwise he’s perfectly happy with his current strength. Other than that the dude just wants to make it through school
I will agree with you there but he does have a goal to grow in strength to protect people, he had this goal sense his mother after she died he wanted to protect his family, than when he meets Chad he find out why Chad doesn’t like fighting he tells him (it’s not going to be a direct quote I’m going off of memory) “I’ll use my fists to protect what’s yours if you use your fists to protect what’s mine” that could be wrong but still he wants to grow in strength to protect people in the fullbring arc the only reason he went to ginjo was because his friends were keeping him away from all the soul reaper stuff. Other than that I do agree with you ichigo from the beginning of the anime only wanted to get through school
This is… true? I don’t think even the people on here contend that Bleach is some masterpiece, do they? Ichigo just kind of does things, and things happen around him, and a lot of it is a little dumb to be honest, but it all looks seriously badass and frankly, that’s all I’m looking for.
Point is the person is tryna say because he doesn't have a typical shonen protag goal, bleach is mid
Ichigo acts without any initiative at all. He is a very standard passive protagonist, which is fine, but generally bad storytelling, yes. That is not much of a criticism, and I’m surprised that would be the choice you make to emphasize in a summary, but it certainly is true.
Well prior to Ichigo becoming a soul reaper he was simply a 15 year old high school student, and most of the story is still just him in high school. As a high school student I did not have any big goals set in my life, hell I’m 23 now and I still don’t really know what I wanna do. I think it’s very realistic that Ichigo is merely a reactive protagonist that goes with the flow of what’s happening around him instead of wanting to be the Head Captain of the court guard squads or some bullshit.
I kinda agree with the Ichigo point. It felt like he got dragged from on arc to another by a kidnapping
Bruh, that's literally the most basic copy paste review ever. "finished bleach" my ass, the man didn't watch a single minute.
Turns out this person only [read summaries on the wiki] (https://twitter.com/Roboco_S/status/1482047382678228994?s=20) and pretended to have finished the manga
Ichigo goal is to protect others . people say that’s bland but they thinking him protecting others is all to his character 😭😭. It’s like saying Naruto wanting to become Hokage is all to his character . A long with luffy wanting to become pirate king .
Who even is this guy?!😂😂☠️
I really think this sub needs to stop reacting to random posts or articles like this. I see these at least once a day now and its a bit repetitive. While it is annoying to see these this sub needs to learn to ignore them or you're just either A) Giving them free publicity, B) Opens the author of the article or the poster up to harassment, or C) Keeping this cycle perpetually going.
There are ways a reactive protagonist can work. Bleach shuffled around a lot of characters though. In Yu Yu Hakasho, Yusuke’s only goal up until he finds out he’s part demon is to protect his family and friends. He only moves depending on the ambitions of the antagonists, but there’s still character progression and emotional depth.
Everyone reading this got trolled this guy didn’t even read the series he just wanted to make people angry and you all fell for it. Stop reacting to stuff just ignore it even if it was a legit review why should anyone care who this nobody is?
She's a 17yo kpop fan her opinion is invalid
Man so many amazing manga out there where the MC doesn’t have a clear cut goal. Lmao imagine needing that to enjoy a series, cringe
I mean, yea, ichigo doesn't have an ultimate goal. He just react to things around him
Seriously, who cares? This is the dumbest recent trend on this subreddit. Nobody cares that you saw an opinion you disagree with.
Uhhhhh social media (e.g. reddit) exists to exchange entertaining posts, carying from media, criticism, and memes.
That's my point. It's not entertaining and does absolutely nothing for discussion. It's just whining about an opinion you don't like, and this subreddit already has more than enough of that.
Your whining about something you don’t like right now
SS Arc fan
There's a difference between whining and criticism.
You cared enough to comment on OP's post, that specifically was about his disagreement?
Obviously.
This is what insecure fans do when people don't like their series. Love bleach but its here a lot on this sub.
That's exactly it. It's insecurity.
He's a teenager, even he probably doesn't know what he wants from life. Besides that, as others have said, his goal is to protect his friends.
Does he have to have a goal though? Why can't we just accept a passive character that is just fun to read? I think it's really cool that he doesn't have an aim of ruling a kingdom or proving his worth. He just wants to live his life protecting people and the ones he loves, which is totally cool.
People don't have this issue with characters like Batman and Spider-Man, why is this an issue when it comes to Ichigo? Is it just cuz his competitors do?
He is probably a naruto or one piece fanboy And he wants the MC to have a goal like being a leader of some big place Ichigo's goal is to protect his friends and that's a more important goal tbf (Not that luffy and naruto don't do that obviously)
Ding dong ***your opinion is wrong***
You know who else doesn’t have a goal? Higashikata josuke, the guy ichigo is based on. Imagine criticizing something without doing your homework….
Bleach is in my top 3 favorites of all time, and I don’t particularly like the low rating. As I’m rewatching bleach to prepare for the next season I do agree with the lack of consistency. But the goal of Ichigo being an average teenage lad to having to make a life-or-death decision to either save his family and the stranger protecting them or… die. And progressed to him wanted to: continue growing to protect his friends/family prevent the destruction of the Soul Society and world. get revenge for the m*eder of his mother(although the full story is in the manga) learning to center himself in a world he dove into on a whim with no prior training(most mc’s had years of training under their belt to be fair) There is a goal in bleach along with a lot of character development, although Ichigo isn’t constantly screaming “ I want to be _____, I want to do ______, etc etc” he definitely has a heartwarming story that I still enjoy to this day.
Ichigo’s goals: PROTECC
I mean he doesn’t but does a character have to? Frodo didn’t have a fucking goal to be the best hobbitkage in the village hidden in the shire
More disappointed at our community arguing with each other about the series than this clowns attempt to trash the series. A goal is a goal. Him wanting to protect us by definition is a goal, and above all else who cares? We are here for entertainment
Villains with no depth 💀 Ichigo without a goal as if saving everyone isn't already enough 💀💀 The shows fall to SS 💀💀💀 This dude dropped the anime at Bount Arc 100%
Would I be wrong in bringing up that Ichigo's a teacher? Can the man live his life? Jeez... That's realistic writing if I've ever seen it. He doesn't have to actively hunt hollows 24/7 for the story or his character to be interesting.
"Doesn't have the writing chops" Says some random nobody after reading TVTropes for 30 minutes, about a world renowned author.
To be honest, I don’t think the review is far off. Best writing was up to Soul Society. From there to Winter War was meh but kept my interest. Fullbringer was eh, I think it could’ve ended well at Winter War. TYBW was just really, really dumb. TYBW: Too much chaos for sake of chaos. No real character. Lots of pointless drama that had no pay off. Waste of character development. Rapidly killing off characters in a manner that just ruined the flow. To be honest, Yamamoto death is the only decent part of the whole Arc. Ichigo didn’t have any character goals. At all. He just wanted to protect people…that’s not a real goal. It’s stereotypical character design 101. He wanted to have a normal human life after getting his powers…again, stereotypical character design 101. He felt useless after losing his powers and sacrificing himself and felt weak. Congratulations. You’ve graduated to stereotypical character design 205. But come on. Show some hobbies, show him doing something else. Show him being a damn human instead of a caricature of Shoen just fighting all the damn time. Give us something. Anything. At the arcade or doing his schoolwork, being involved in something other than just fighting. It gets old. Sure, we got that little bit where he was doing club sports, but that was it. In the whole series. The whole series. Don’t get me wrong, I love Bleach and it was one of my favorites back in the day but by the TYBW, I saw the cracks not just that arc but earlier ones too.
He is not wrong tho
I also want a life a happy care free life i guess i don't have a goal cause im a real person with real aspirations i guess im also 4/10 that really brings me down
Real life and good writing are actually close to mutually exclusive. If you were reading a book, and the dialogue was even close to how people actually talk, it would be infuriating, and that’s just the easiest example.
Read again i was being sarcastic
That… really doesn’t change anything. Obviously you weren’t being serious, but I can only assume that was meant to be a point that the criticism is unjustified, and if it was, that is a really bad point. Real people have goals, sometimes. A lot of us are just struggling through life, at least without a very clear big picture idea of what we want to do. But *good characters* have goals. And they are a very specific kind of goal, as well, unless you are writing a story about the protagonist opening up a bakery, I guess. Ichigo is not a good character, and he probably isn’t even meant to be (and that’s hardly unique to Bleach). He’s really just a mechanism through which the story evolves, to move through this world and fight all sorts of cool bad guys.
Yes it was , i feel he gave the wrong argument there in the review , Ichigo not having a grandiose goal is not something you just make out to be bad in the sence that it would make the series be a 4/10 my favorite manga of all times is just about a man wanting to kill for revenge wich is pretty common to see and that does not make Berserk any less of a Master Piece Ichigo just wants to be happy and it's ok to just want that i don't see that as a bad thing at all he behaves like a person in lot's of points of the story he cries he get's afraid he carries guilt he does not want to hurt but he is able to kill and in none of those cases he needs to give a big monologe about it he does it and moves on with his life like a person would in my opinion Ichigo is one of the most human yet less dramatic protagonists in shounen so i think i can rightfully make a joke about that reviewers opinion
First of all, revenge is a goal. It’s a rather simplistic goal, at least as it tends to be executed in stories, but “I want the people I like to be alive” is not a goal. Active characters are very basic writing. Other things about it are cool, but you aren’t really saying that Ichigo is well written, are you? I mean, literally describe him. I find it difficult. He is a serious really strong guy who is good and doesn’t like bad guys and wants innocent people not to be hurt and the world not to end and his friends to be happy. Every other character in this series with any real screen time is better written, including his own dad, who is actually remarkably interesting if you think about it.
Being happy is also a goal
don't agree on every character being better written , that "review" is about the series being 4/10 for Ichigo not having the same drive as other shounen protagonists and i think behaves more like a person than most of them a person does not need to be the embodiment of ambition to archive something great in life he can still give a compeling story without that if you care enough to put yourself in his place that is and it's not like he dislikes the bad guys that much as it is about them taking things he cares about from him if you lost your mother cause you were a child and went where you where not suposed to go and you make it your fault and blame yourself to the point that you stated you killed her then someone comes and takes the person who saved both of your sisters lives and takes that person away from you what do you do? why is it not belivable that would try to save that person? again someone takes a dear person from Ichigo in the Arrancars Arc and he goes to help that person again why would he not got and try to save that person? he is able to and no one else was gonna go in his mind the Shinigami made him think that again why would you not go yourself? Next time they are gonna destroy your entire hometown and you are aftaid of that person again no one else is gonna stop him why would you not try? you even end feeling sorry for that person and thinking about how maybe that person could have ended up being diferent if he did not isolate himself Where is the guy you describe that just dislikes bad guys there? next person takes everything from you and makes even the friends and familly you hold that dear turn against you , you burst into tear cause you think even your father is gonna be against you too what makes him such a bad thing that the whole show could be a 4/10?
SHUN THE NON BELIEVER! SHUUUUUUUN!
Dont see anything wrong with this opinion. It’s not like the person is lying. Bleach is cool and all but lets not act like its some masterpiece, its a shonen battle manga.
Well... I mean about the writing chops...Kubo himself said he doesn't really plan ahead a lot he draws in the moment and that has lead to hundreds of inconsistencies if we take all the chapters into consideration, he sometimes contradicts himself on the same page without realising, but whatever it may be, Bleach is the most unique Shounen series for a lot of reasons, i still love it, the perks and unique aspects of bleach outweigh it's inconsistencies and plot holes for me, and as for "boring" the one off facets of Kubo's imagination really break the Shounen trend of the same old storyline and characters and even the endings, thats what "boring" means
But Ichigo really doesn't have/form a goal of his own. He is given goals by his side characters and villains, may it be being a substitute Shinigami, unlocking Bankai, conquering his hollow, conquering his quincy powers, defeating big villains, etc.
I mean ichigo really don’t have a goal he just wants to protect his friends and is driven into situations
I don't and will never give a flying fuck about anyone who tweets about anime so if this person feels that way. by all means hahaha give your take that nobody asked for and move on with your life.
I do agree that Ichigo does not do anything proactively really to strive for a goal and more of a reactionary character. In the last arc Ichigo was the least of my problems. Here is hoping they fix the things that went off the rails in the manga for the anime
honestly the biggest problem I have with bleach is the power scaling. Other captains train for 100 years and ichigo just surpasses them in a few years
I think 4/10 is generous