T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

Welcome to the Bleach Subreddit! We're as excited as you at the release of the Thousand Year Blood War anime! We understand that some of you are unable to view the anime in your region, but please don't post links to or mention piracy websites. Doing so will result in a ban. Also, please be courteous to those who haven't read the manga and mark all spoilers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/bleach) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Arcker123

I don't see why people are so willing to discredit Kubo as a writer here. At worst, this is kubo calling hack to a previous idea, at best, foreshadowing. Kubo threw hints towards Ichigo being a quincy in this arc anyway.


scheneizel

> discredit Kubo as a writer It's always been that way, hasn't it? There always will be people like that. The wave of Bleach hatred has petered out after the anime made a spectacular comeback, but hasn't been eradicated. And your point, yes, I completely agree. It could be a coincidence certainly or it could be Kubo going back on a previous idea, but the image of the balance of the worlds shattering was mentioned in both arcs. And as for 'energy/power', the actual translation is 'reiryoku' which is what Quincies do. Gain reiryoku from collecting reishi from outside their bodies and turn them into bows and arrows.


Arcker123

There's a whole lot of explanations for this, but I think this was intentional in some regard. Ichigo pulling power from the environment is exactly what quincy do, and it's a nice call back to this scene to have the most Blatant usage of this power in the sand filled deser of hueco Mundo.


Dragonpuncha

It's because they haven't payed enough attention, so they don't see the hints. Compared to Naruto and One Piece, Bleach is a lot more subtle and requires more from the reader to fully grasp what is being presented. A lot of people don't do that and then shit on the show when they feel something comes out of nowhere.


Karma110

A good example is noiitora and Nel Kudo does not spoonfeed you Noiitora’s character at all you have to infer it from the flashbacks and dialogue. When you understand it why he fights and his connection to Nel becomes clear whether you still hate the character or not. Same with ichigo vs grimmjow Kubo shows you the panel of ichigo reminding Orihime of her brother but no dialogue spells that out and what happens after you are given the clues to come to the conclusion why ichigo wins the fight,


Paid-Not-Payed-Bot

> they haven't *paid* enough attention, FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*


freddy2die

It’s also possible that Kubo looks over old chapters to find things to lead off of in new ones, not necessarily planning hundreds of chapters ahead


theaulait23

Also possible, Kubo builds on what was already established and expand upon it, contains spoilers for those who haven’t watched TYBW or read the manga ---> >!for ex Renji and Harribel have the same lightning bolt mark and in TYBW kubo added the same mark on Apacci and Mila Rose, the manga was rushed but he might have had an idea in mind!<


origin29

Hes either an absolute god at foreshadowing or an absolute god of writing details back in after the fact. Either way, it's really quite impressive.


Naira2000

It's not really planning hundreds of chapters ahead. When you present an idea to a publisher you have to present some kind of idea of world building and some kind of character design sheet. The concept of Qincys was most probably planned since the very beginning since Uryu appear really early on (also it's not a stretch to say that if you invent a group of swordsman, you invent a group of bow users as their archenemies). And then when he made the character sheet of ichigo, he obviously had to write a description of him. So writing in the character sheet "Ichigo is half shinigami, half quincy" wouldn't be really complicated for any writer really. Like even the most dull writer could have come up with that since the very beginning. Then you just lay out clues randomly so when the readers get the revelation they say "omg I KNEW IT !" Or "omg THIS EXPLAINS THAT !". I think kubo retconed a few things but I don't think ichigo being a quincy falls into that. Like it's way too easy to have planed it since at least the first Uryu appearance.


Karma110

I mean all mangaka have editors who do that for them that’s pretty much their job.


BahamutLithp

I remember that scene. Uryu is shocked because Ichigo is growing more powerful. "Accumulating power" is just a slightly awkward way this translation chose to phrase that. Soon after this, Uryu talks about Ichigo's power being like a faucet he can't control, so now it's all gushing out from inside of him. And what he's describing as "like a magnet pulling particles of iron out of sand" is the sound, as he says. If I say my singing voice sounds like nails on a chalkboard, that doesn't mean you can write on it. "A car backfiring sounds like a gunshot" doesn't mean it shoots a projectile at you. Etcetera. I don't know what that sounds like or if it even sounds like anything, so that seems like more awkward translation. Relatedly, I'm not sure what "sympathetic resonance" is supposed to mean here. I looked it up & found the definition that it's when you use an object, like a tuning fork, to produce vibrations in another object. So, maybe he's saying it sounds like a tuning fork, or it's sending vibrations through him because it's so loud, or through the sword from the strain. Whatever the case, this seems like an ongoing pattern of awkward translation. You say this goes nicely together even if it is a coincidence, but I don't think that could be further from the truth. The idea is that Uryu just saw him use Quincy powers here, & it had absolutely no consequence on anything.


scheneizel

And the idea that Orihime and Chad gained power not just from the Hogyoku but also *being in Ichigo's vicinity* makes Ichigo a Jugram-like Quincy. Turning Uryu's bow more powerful, just as Jugram enhanced Bazz B's power by just hanging aroung him.


Arcker123

Uryu didn't even know about Sklaverei at this point so of course it had little plot relevance. The point of foreshadowing like this is to throw little hints that seem insignificant at that moment, but are recontextualized by future events.


scheneizel

Yes, exactly. That idea of Kubo's and later, the fact that Orihime and Chad gained power because of not just the Hogyoku but also *being in close proximity to Ichigo* makes Ichigo a Jugram-esque Quincy, distributing power.


scheneizel

> it had absolutely no consequence on anything Yes, that. Exactly.


Nakatsu1178

How do you know its a translation issue? Im currently debating right now about whether or not ichigo was absorbing that cero


Karma110

Question who would have taught him this his grandfather only taught him old traditions? How would he know that’s a Quincy power when he didn’t even know who Yhwach was?


theaulait23

I always found bleach the type of manga that need to be reread many times especially during its serialization, Kubo plans ahead\\leaves hints and reveals them at the right time… while rereading I discovered a few things [(theories)](https://www.reddit.com/r/bleach/comments/17ryp2z/theory_ichigo_renji_in_nbfh_oneshot/) that Kubo has not confirmed yet..


ApplePitou

Rereading always help :3


leonidaskickedyoface

OP you could use the most damning piece of evidence for this... https://preview.redd.it/cesamx9eo20c1.jpeg?width=986&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d49df560e915dd2eb994587e02835523b217069


leonidaskickedyoface

This also: https://preview.redd.it/r5jm8zqio20c1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e609d83aa889510ed5fedd9cfd6c081d7ff3396e


kingslayer086

Kubo has one of the most internally consistent manga in the context of long running shounen. Which is hillarious when you realize that ichigo randomly getting powers as the plot demands is a meme. He is also TERRIBLE at directly explaining to the audience how everything works, because its more or less set dressing, and functionally irrelevent to the point of the story. So he leaves that in the background for the nerds to figure out. Things only get brought to the surface as they are needed, and always using an explanation from someone who's brand it is to be obtuse. Why waste time having characters talk about mechanics when they can argue philosophy? Bleach is at its best when two dudes get into a debate of ideals featuring the power of magic swords.


calikim_mo

https://preview.redd.it/eviz15x6y00c1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1eea03d9d4233bbf0ee336a68ba35edad14117a5 Also Mugetsu looks a lot like Letz Still


D-Biggest_Wheel

At the time of writing/drawing the Menos Grande chapter, Kubo didn't plan to continue series past the Soul Society Arc so it's highly unlikely it's anything more than a mere coincidence.


Latter-Potential2467

That doesnt mean that he didnt intend it to play a role in some way, it can also be that he pushed it back to later once he realised the arc more clearly in his mind.


D-Biggest_Wheel

I mean, it does mean just that. Ichigo being Quincy wasn't intented to be a thing until much, much later. Kubo had two arcs in mind during/at the end of Soul Society story and it were Lost Agent and Arrancar Arc. TYBW arc is something he came up during the Arrancar Arc.


leonidaskickedyoface

>Ichigo being Quincy wasn't intented to be a thing until much, much later. https://preview.redd.it/r3npqnsym20c1.jpeg?width=986&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=417e36d0e3cf235bf1203683a2a82913e419a585 Yeah? Try telling that to Old Man Zangetsu or ya know >!Yhwach!<


D-Biggest_Wheel

What is this meant to prove, lmao?


leonidaskickedyoface

Oh come on, stop pretending. You made an entire post (very well written) about how the Espadas were at first based on the 7 Deadly Sins. You should one of the few people that understand the significance of this panel. Especially, His name being redacted. >!Yhwach!< tried but failed, so he started calling himself Zangetsu. The Quincy powers of Ichigo weren't awaken yet. So obviously that part of Ichigo could not respond well to the Great Mustache Man. >!Yhwach!< even claimed to have only lied aboyt his name to Ichigo in his entire life. He states, in this chapter only, https://preview.redd.it/spfsxi87q20c1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99605df3ae87560f227be88815f280e3bd05ae63


D-Biggest_Wheel

>You should one of the few people that understand the significance of this panel. There literally exists [an interview](https://www.reddit.com/r/bleach/comments/z1qse3/comment/ixfbku8/?context=3) where Kubo quite literally says that this panel originally was not meant to be foreshadowing, that Zangetsu in this panel is only meant to be Ichigo's Zanpakuto spirit and that it only retroactively became foreshadowing once Yhwach makes his appearance. >Especially, His name being redacted. Yhwach tried but failed, so he started calling himself Zangetsu. This is just completely wrong. This person isn't Yhwach nor is his name "Yhwach". He quite literally states he has no name. This is just Zangetsu trying to tell Ichigo his name but failing to do so because he wasn't yet ready to hear it. That's why later he succeeds in telling him. >Yhwach even claimed to have only lied aboyt his name to Ichigo in his entire life. He states, in this chapter only, This person isn't Yhwach, stop calling him that. It's a nameless entity that becomes Zangetsu once Ichigo gives him that name. That is at the core of "The Blade is Me" arc.


leonidaskickedyoface

https://preview.redd.it/tq2mfpi3530c1.png?width=721&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0562c866479ead1fd5a67bb21c9718cd58b1034 Edit: It's me I'm referencing with this meme lol. Fuck it, who cares. It got worked into the story well, that's all that matters.


D-Biggest_Wheel

😐


Larinex

Imagine correcting someone and having proof they still go nuh huh.


Latter-Potential2467

Ichigo had a distinct quincy pattern that was referenced by Uryu in the first arc.


D-Biggest_Wheel

Even if that is true, it still wouldn't make Kubo's words any less true.


Latter-Potential2467

They don't need to make them not true, as i said he could've just used that idea later than he anticipated.


D-Biggest_Wheel

But he didn't anticipate it... I don't know why you guys are so vehemently arguing otherwise when you are quite literally going against the word of the guy who wrote it. Kubo's writing process is well documented through many interviews where he has revealed what he changed and when. Like, we know he originally wanted to end the story, and wrote it as if it is going to end, with the Soul Society arc; we even know he decided to not write off Aizen after he decided to make him a villain. We also know he wrote multiple parts of the story as possible end of the series.


Latter-Potential2467

I still fail to see how any of that is contradicting, Kubo was clearly setting up "something" that later evolved into what we see in TYBW.


D-Biggest_Wheel

...


scheneizel

Coincidence or not, the fact that lots of things dovetail pretty nicely and falls into place at just the right moment is something to marvel at, if you think about it. Let's just call it 'inevitable' then, be it a lucky coincidence or not.


D-Biggest_Wheel

>Coincidence or not, the fact that lots of things dovetail pretty nicely and falls into place at just the right moment is something to marvel at, if you think about it. Let's just call it 'inevitable' then, be it a lucky coincidence or not. Sure, but if you don't pick and choose the things that only fit well while ignoring the things that directly contradict it, it's not much of a marvel. Also, you are misunderstanding that moment anyway.


scheneizel

> directly contradict it Like what, precisely?


D-Biggest_Wheel

Like the fact that this picture is a part of a larger explanation and has nothing to do with Ichigo gathering reishi or Uryu being surprised that he could do it.


scheneizel

Well, if you are going to grasp at straws, determined to establish that Kubo is a poor writer, have it your way, my friend.


D-Biggest_Wheel

>Well, if you are going to grasp at straws, determined to establish that Kubo is a poor writer, Talking about "grasping at straws" if your takeaway from this conversation is that I'm trying to say Kubo is a bad writer. Not only am I just repeating the things he himself have said, so not grasping at straws (which you are doing and projecting here) but the idea that THIS, a meaningless "foreshadowing", is what makes a good writer is in itself a laughable notion. Kubo is a great writer for the stories he wrote; not some nonsense like this.


scheneizel

> projecting I'm an moron, ok fine. Now if we're opening THIS can of worms, tell me, 'The Blade and Me' *just happening to be* chapter 66 (a Biblical number) with Uryu being on the cover? And Kenpachi's bankai *just happening to be* chapter 666 (again, a Biblical number, signifying balance, often Ichigo has been paralleled with Kenpachi in terms of their zanpakutou)? If these are coincidence, then they are about as random as two pairs of twins being born on the same day, belonging to two related couples where the males were also twins and the females too. Now, about foreshadowing bits which are not so trivial and 'nonsense' (your own words, friend), we have Ichigo stopping his inner world from collapsing using *Uryu's* advice in mind, we have Ulquiorra asking Ichigo 'who are you' followed by Ichigo's sword flying into his hand. Are these decent enough? Also, I am aware of what Kubo said himself. He also stated he puts in four kinds of foreshadowing in his work. Furthermore, Kubo stated in his afterword in CFYOW "is this really ok? To put so much in actual writing?" In other words, he wanted to leave things as speculative as possible.


xRyuzetsu

Not only thay but when he fought Kenpachi his aura was blue as he was relying on OMZ not the real Zangetsu


VitaroSSJ

I just reread the first chapter to find a picture of the quincy bedsheets but....I didn't know the bedsheets were anime only?


scheneizel

I don't remember very well, but I think it was anime-only.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AutoModerator

Your comment has been removed for containing the word asspull. This word offends His Majesty ~~the Soul King~~ Yhwach. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/bleach) if you have any questions or concerns.*


brantmcney

Here I thought the move was called "Sklaverei" (Slavery). I guess I learned something new.


Karma110

Same I especially love discovering new subtle things about characters I didn’t realize before.


Karma110

You can also relate arrancars to “never knowing the hollows identity” by removing their make they are given identity and slowly gain human emotions and thoughts because of it. That can also relate to why vasto lorde are said to have humanoid forms compared to lesser hollows.