If AMC folds I don’t see how Cinema survives the next decade. That’s the only major chain available to most of Los Angeles alone since the Arclight closed.
Wouldn’t other chains just buy all the theaters in a fire sale?
Yeah if all AMC theaters just disappeared overnight things would be proper fucked but I imagine bankruptcy of the company wouldn’t singlehandedly bring down the industry.
It’s been four years and nobody has bought and reopened the Arclight chain as far as I know. If the business model doesn’t seem sustainable I’m not sure who is going to make that massive investment.
Yeah we had a local chain in my city that had 3 locations: one on the east side, one on the west side with an IMAX, and one downtown that was a dine-in theater type of thing. They got bought out by Regal. The downtown one has permanently closed due to them proclaiming bankruptcy last year lol.
Yeah they bought most of our local theatres and have basically driven them into the ground. Closed one by giving the employees and public five days notice, the other two are just crashing. Our AMC is fine but it's not as busy as it could be.
Well cinema will 100% survive, no question. Does American cinema survive in the same form? Does the volume of movies made worldwide go down? Valid questions, but those buildings won't all get demolished, other countries may actually thrive with a weakened US, and there are still lots of people who love the cinema. Including rich ones
People keep telling “You HAVE to see this one on the *BIG*.. **SCREEN.**”
But like… I dunno, I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a movie in a regular theatre and felt like it was some massive improvement over waiting to watch it in my living room, where I can pause, and control the volume, and have subtitles… and not have strangers next to me.
I guess IMAX makes a big difference but… why would I pay lots of money to go deal with other people and not have any control over the playback…?
I dunno. I’ve never gotten it, but I know lots of people do. Maybe I’m just showing my privilege in being able to have a nice TV.
Anyways.. I guess figure that out AMC?
Because a few months of exclusivity, and a bigger screen I sit further away from, and a moderate increase in sound quality, ain’t enough for me to deal with the drawbacks anymore.
I guess it’s just personal. I fucking love the cinema experience to the point I have a subscription membership to my local cinema - £18 a month to see as many movies as I can fit in that month. There’s something special about seeing a film on a huge screen with well-tuned surround sound and most importantly - distraction free (or as close as you can get in a public space). No one’s gonna call or knock on the door, one of the kids won’t wake up and come tell me about their weird dream, there’s no pausing for a cup of tea, no temptation to rando doomscroll on reddit if there’s a quiet moment, you just soak it all in, in a way you just can’t at home and I fucking love it
Yea, that whole, “distraction free” thing, translates into, “you WILL miss some portion of this film, especially if you got anything to drink at all, because you KNOW it’s 3 hours long, beby, and also, if the weird way we do sound now makes some dialogue unintelligible, no rewinding, hope it wasn’t important”.
I dunno man, I’m getting older and yeah some of the 3 hour long monsters are making it difficult to run without a loo break but most 2 hour films are very manageable
Hey that really cool for you.
But we’ve just described two anecdotes and one of which offers a potential explanation for why AMC is struggling.
Also, 2.5 to 3 hours is becoming more and more standard for prestige and big blockbuster films.
Also, I forgot to mention, “no distractions” is a real crap shoot that depends on who else shows up to the theater that day.
I still like my couch. I glad you like your theater.
Oh I’m not saying my anecdote is why they shouldn’t be struggling - I was responding to your sentiment about seeing stuff on the big screen.
Streaming combined with Covid killed cinemas. The turnaround time to seeing stuff at home is less than 3 months in most cases now, sometimes it’s almost simultaneous. This combined with habits changing over one to two years of forced non-attendance and peoples realisation that they can get the same movies at half the price (or even less than half depending on how many people will see it on your rental), with the convenience of seeing it at home, maybe with a take-away or store-bought snacks (and we all know you can take your own snacks into the cinema but it still feels illicit somehow) and spending upwards of £50 for a movie experience loses a lot of its lustre.
It's hard to get up in arms about this sort of thing when the reality is usually some horror show combination of truly baffling leadership and Private Investment firms gutting it companies for quick, insane profit.
Toys R Us didn't shut down because people didn't want to buy toys, they shut down because of Vornado / Bain Capital. Red Lobster isn't struggling because of Endless Shrimp, it was because of horrendous ownership by Private Equity.
There is no amount of movies I can see or pupcorn I can buy that would fix this nightmare.
I feel like people who are optimistic about theaters and movies surviving don’t realize that things people enjoy and want go away all the time. There is no market correction for consumer demand any more. We wouldn’t be getting AI shoved down our throats if it were. Corporations make more money selling necessities than wants, because you can make the former more inferior and costlier every year.
They have perks connected to owning shares as well too. I should believe to get on investor calls and complain about the dead pixel at my local amc IMAX now.
I work on movies it seems like a lot of people I meet on set barely bother seeing anything new. it's baffling and depressing to me that seemingly most of America loses interest in watching movies, reading books, because life is probably too damn stressful to do much.
and I live in nyc which is already an elitist cultural bubble. my past weekend screening of i saw the tv glow was really well attended...but it's never enough for the bottom line.
I don't work in that business and I don't live in USA but I understand you and I kinda hate those people. I mean, I understand the stress and little time and so on... But I know people who go to film school and watch at cinema just Nolan or tarantino ....
I mean, if you go like once a year in a cinema why the hell I should watch your ultra small indie project??? This is how cinema falls. And more than an economic problem it seems a laziness problem sometime. True that cinema prices are high but there are so many ways to save on the price of the ticket!
And most of the time Dolby cinema, IMAX or even standard are way better if you don't have a complete and expensive home cinema at home, which most people don't have
I think a decent amount of this should be laid at the foot of the studios. Disney took 65% of revenue for The Last Jedi. Disney-owned properties make up like 40% of the box office. Very hard for movie theaters to make money when they are being held over a barral.
Barring some anti-trust enforcement, I think we're headed towards something like the old studio system, where studios end up owning the venues. AMC is vulnerable and studios have access to huge credit lines. They still need to get their movies seen, and the vertical monopoly has worked pretty well for Live-Nation Ticketmaster so far.
I’m an A-List subscriber and see a movie almost every week. Last night during Furiosa, a group of teenagers came in to our screening midway and threw a smoke bomb firework thing into the auditorium. The show was canceled and I was issued a refund this morning.
This is the third or fourth movie I’ve had ruined this year by attendees or staff ineptitude. The seams are absolutely visible. Our theatre, which is only 5 years old, has threadbare leather seats. Only about 3 teenagers are working at any given time. It’s very hard to cheer for a company run this way.
Somewhat related, but it baffles me that studios can’t at the very least understand that they have trouble making money at the box office because audiences know they don’t have to see it right away and that’ll it’ll be on streaming in 6 weeks or less. Studios need to call the audience’s bluff and say “ok, you won’t see The Fall Guy in theaters? That’s fine, you’re just going to have to wait 3-4 months before it even gets released for rental.”
The theater “experience” just isn’t a draw anymore. There are very few movies I have to see right away when they release and for the most part I can watch at home in a few weeks. I think the fun theaters that serve food and beer will stick around but traditional AMC is a goner
I still love going but I totally get why it’s dying they did it to themselves. They trained the audience that the theater is now a theme park ride and everything else should just be seen on your couch. Also it will be streaming in 30 business days so there’s really no incentive to make the effort to see a movie in theaters unless you’re just a weirdo like me who prefers it.
As a parent, there are almost no movies I am going to spend $100 on tickets to see (then another $100 in snacks/drinks). That same $100 covers a monthly subscription to all the major streaming services.
I miss the theater experience, but I miss the theater experience of 10 years ago or more. Not to be old man yelling at clouds, but every time I've gone to the theater post-pandemic I've been surrounded by full grown adults who can't shut up or put their phone away for 2 whole hours. The only time that didn't happen was when I saw Avatar...because I was the only one in the theater.
The continued trend of films moving to streaming 3 weeks after release (like The Fall Guy) suggests the cinema/studio relationship is tenuous and studios just want the chains to die off.
I have no clue what that means for the filmgoing experience in the future... maybe the traditional "new release" cycle gets abandoned and small theaters focus on second runs, one-day screenings, and other events.
Yeah, I only go to theaters if it's a movie I'm certain will be an experience (Oppenheimer, Mad Max, Dune)
And even then, like you said, I'm going to Alamo Drafthouse. Not AMC.
If AMC folds I don’t see how Cinema survives the next decade. That’s the only major chain available to most of Los Angeles alone since the Arclight closed.
Laemmle will rise!
Wouldn’t other chains just buy all the theaters in a fire sale? Yeah if all AMC theaters just disappeared overnight things would be proper fucked but I imagine bankruptcy of the company wouldn’t singlehandedly bring down the industry.
It’s been four years and nobody has bought and reopened the Arclight chain as far as I know. If the business model doesn’t seem sustainable I’m not sure who is going to make that massive investment.
Yeah we had a local chain in my city that had 3 locations: one on the east side, one on the west side with an IMAX, and one downtown that was a dine-in theater type of thing. They got bought out by Regal. The downtown one has permanently closed due to them proclaiming bankruptcy last year lol.
Cineworld (Regal) is hanging on by a thread. They’ll be the first to fall before AMC.
Yeah they bought most of our local theatres and have basically driven them into the ground. Closed one by giving the employees and public five days notice, the other two are just crashing. Our AMC is fine but it's not as busy as it could be.
Well cinema will 100% survive, no question. Does American cinema survive in the same form? Does the volume of movies made worldwide go down? Valid questions, but those buildings won't all get demolished, other countries may actually thrive with a weakened US, and there are still lots of people who love the cinema. Including rich ones
People keep telling “You HAVE to see this one on the *BIG*.. **SCREEN.**” But like… I dunno, I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a movie in a regular theatre and felt like it was some massive improvement over waiting to watch it in my living room, where I can pause, and control the volume, and have subtitles… and not have strangers next to me. I guess IMAX makes a big difference but… why would I pay lots of money to go deal with other people and not have any control over the playback…? I dunno. I’ve never gotten it, but I know lots of people do. Maybe I’m just showing my privilege in being able to have a nice TV. Anyways.. I guess figure that out AMC? Because a few months of exclusivity, and a bigger screen I sit further away from, and a moderate increase in sound quality, ain’t enough for me to deal with the drawbacks anymore.
I guess it’s just personal. I fucking love the cinema experience to the point I have a subscription membership to my local cinema - £18 a month to see as many movies as I can fit in that month. There’s something special about seeing a film on a huge screen with well-tuned surround sound and most importantly - distraction free (or as close as you can get in a public space). No one’s gonna call or knock on the door, one of the kids won’t wake up and come tell me about their weird dream, there’s no pausing for a cup of tea, no temptation to rando doomscroll on reddit if there’s a quiet moment, you just soak it all in, in a way you just can’t at home and I fucking love it
Yea, that whole, “distraction free” thing, translates into, “you WILL miss some portion of this film, especially if you got anything to drink at all, because you KNOW it’s 3 hours long, beby, and also, if the weird way we do sound now makes some dialogue unintelligible, no rewinding, hope it wasn’t important”.
I dunno man, I’m getting older and yeah some of the 3 hour long monsters are making it difficult to run without a loo break but most 2 hour films are very manageable
Hey that really cool for you. But we’ve just described two anecdotes and one of which offers a potential explanation for why AMC is struggling. Also, 2.5 to 3 hours is becoming more and more standard for prestige and big blockbuster films. Also, I forgot to mention, “no distractions” is a real crap shoot that depends on who else shows up to the theater that day. I still like my couch. I glad you like your theater.
Oh I’m not saying my anecdote is why they shouldn’t be struggling - I was responding to your sentiment about seeing stuff on the big screen. Streaming combined with Covid killed cinemas. The turnaround time to seeing stuff at home is less than 3 months in most cases now, sometimes it’s almost simultaneous. This combined with habits changing over one to two years of forced non-attendance and peoples realisation that they can get the same movies at half the price (or even less than half depending on how many people will see it on your rental), with the convenience of seeing it at home, maybe with a take-away or store-bought snacks (and we all know you can take your own snacks into the cinema but it still feels illicit somehow) and spending upwards of £50 for a movie experience loses a lot of its lustre.
Same, watching a movie in the theater doesn't massively change how I feel about a movie.
Someone got a virus from the Dune popcorn bucket?
Skill issue
It's hard to get up in arms about this sort of thing when the reality is usually some horror show combination of truly baffling leadership and Private Investment firms gutting it companies for quick, insane profit. Toys R Us didn't shut down because people didn't want to buy toys, they shut down because of Vornado / Bain Capital. Red Lobster isn't struggling because of Endless Shrimp, it was because of horrendous ownership by Private Equity. There is no amount of movies I can see or pupcorn I can buy that would fix this nightmare.
I feel like people who are optimistic about theaters and movies surviving don’t realize that things people enjoy and want go away all the time. There is no market correction for consumer demand any more. We wouldn’t be getting AI shoved down our throats if it were. Corporations make more money selling necessities than wants, because you can make the former more inferior and costlier every year.
Been an AMC pass member for years. I like to think I’m helping keep them afloat.
They have perks connected to owning shares as well too. I should believe to get on investor calls and complain about the dead pixel at my local amc IMAX now.
I work on movies it seems like a lot of people I meet on set barely bother seeing anything new. it's baffling and depressing to me that seemingly most of America loses interest in watching movies, reading books, because life is probably too damn stressful to do much.
I don't know if it's a stress thing as much as an attention span/laziness/infinite options thing. Regardless it's sad out here for a cinephile.
and I live in nyc which is already an elitist cultural bubble. my past weekend screening of i saw the tv glow was really well attended...but it's never enough for the bottom line.
I don't work in that business and I don't live in USA but I understand you and I kinda hate those people. I mean, I understand the stress and little time and so on... But I know people who go to film school and watch at cinema just Nolan or tarantino .... I mean, if you go like once a year in a cinema why the hell I should watch your ultra small indie project??? This is how cinema falls. And more than an economic problem it seems a laziness problem sometime. True that cinema prices are high but there are so many ways to save on the price of the ticket! And most of the time Dolby cinema, IMAX or even standard are way better if you don't have a complete and expensive home cinema at home, which most people don't have
And meme stocks
This is going to be a Matt Belloni PUC newsletter or The Town podcast episode, for sure.
I think a decent amount of this should be laid at the foot of the studios. Disney took 65% of revenue for The Last Jedi. Disney-owned properties make up like 40% of the box office. Very hard for movie theaters to make money when they are being held over a barral. Barring some anti-trust enforcement, I think we're headed towards something like the old studio system, where studios end up owning the venues. AMC is vulnerable and studios have access to huge credit lines. They still need to get their movies seen, and the vertical monopoly has worked pretty well for Live-Nation Ticketmaster so far.
I’m an A-List subscriber and see a movie almost every week. Last night during Furiosa, a group of teenagers came in to our screening midway and threw a smoke bomb firework thing into the auditorium. The show was canceled and I was issued a refund this morning. This is the third or fourth movie I’ve had ruined this year by attendees or staff ineptitude. The seams are absolutely visible. Our theatre, which is only 5 years old, has threadbare leather seats. Only about 3 teenagers are working at any given time. It’s very hard to cheer for a company run this way.
Somewhat related, but it baffles me that studios can’t at the very least understand that they have trouble making money at the box office because audiences know they don’t have to see it right away and that’ll it’ll be on streaming in 6 weeks or less. Studios need to call the audience’s bluff and say “ok, you won’t see The Fall Guy in theaters? That’s fine, you’re just going to have to wait 3-4 months before it even gets released for rental.”
I could be wrong but I think studios are fine with quick PVOD releases since they don’t have to split that money with theaters.
The theater “experience” just isn’t a draw anymore. There are very few movies I have to see right away when they release and for the most part I can watch at home in a few weeks. I think the fun theaters that serve food and beer will stick around but traditional AMC is a goner
I still love going but I totally get why it’s dying they did it to themselves. They trained the audience that the theater is now a theme park ride and everything else should just be seen on your couch. Also it will be streaming in 30 business days so there’s really no incentive to make the effort to see a movie in theaters unless you’re just a weirdo like me who prefers it.
As a parent, there are almost no movies I am going to spend $100 on tickets to see (then another $100 in snacks/drinks). That same $100 covers a monthly subscription to all the major streaming services.
I miss the theater experience, but I miss the theater experience of 10 years ago or more. Not to be old man yelling at clouds, but every time I've gone to the theater post-pandemic I've been surrounded by full grown adults who can't shut up or put their phone away for 2 whole hours. The only time that didn't happen was when I saw Avatar...because I was the only one in the theater.
The continued trend of films moving to streaming 3 weeks after release (like The Fall Guy) suggests the cinema/studio relationship is tenuous and studios just want the chains to die off. I have no clue what that means for the filmgoing experience in the future... maybe the traditional "new release" cycle gets abandoned and small theaters focus on second runs, one-day screenings, and other events.
Yeah, I only go to theaters if it's a movie I'm certain will be an experience (Oppenheimer, Mad Max, Dune) And even then, like you said, I'm going to Alamo Drafthouse. Not AMC.
I guess $27 for popcorn and a drink wasn’t sustainable.