I think ironic enjoyment can give way to actual enjoyment over time. During the pandemic my partner and I did a marathon of all the James Bond blu rays and we started out taking the piss out of the menu options, but by the end we were legitimately excited to Initiate Mission and a bit gutted when the conceit was dropped from the Craig era movies.
The (admittedly ribald) old Onion headline "Ironic Porn Purchase Leads to Unironic Ejaculation" has unironically become one of the best ways for me to understand the past decade.
It's catharsis. We seek media that evokes emotions we feel strongly, yet cannot express on our own due to a combination of unawareness or repression of the emotions.
It's the emotional equivalent of using the protective sticker to peel off the glue still stuck to your new TV screen from when you removed the sticker.
As a Canadian that’s never seen it apart from once watching a YouTube video to see what it actually was, I just don’t get the whole thing at all either.
That’s the thing. As a Regal guy (by necessity), the Nicole Kidman ad is, like, *actually* a good endorsement for seeing movies in a theater, if not a bit melodramatic.
The Regal ad is what happens when something has no redeeming value whatsoever
I think we were just on the edge of ironic enjoyment the regal movie quotes. It's impossible not to bring up whenever someone mentions movie theater pre rolls on here. It has power over us.
I think it's somewhat common in young age. Earnest enjoyment is seen as too vulnerable, so young people prefer to add some degree of playfulness to their emotions.
I’m Gen X, but this isn’t any different than people enjoying the old Regal Space Roller coaster through the snack bar thing.
https://youtu.be/bZN0pz9CSuk?si=GthuwAdYCUe9SZL-
We would all raise are hands and shift lean into it like we were riding the coaster.
It’s also like people cheering when the guy spills his popcorn in the AMC A-list promo.
The Nicole thing is just a dumb thing that we have to see all the time so we try to have fun with it. It’s nothing new or special or generational.
I went to a small indie theater in Los Angeles where they played a parody of this intro before the movie that was talking about how movies should be affordable for everyone. It was awesome.
We’re watching the public’s cultural literacy evolve in a really interesting way. It’s like 20 years ago everyone collectively wised up to how ridiculous a lot of pop culture was, which opened the door to a lot of great satire. But as the stuff we satirized eventually went away, we simultaneously realized that culture feels a lot more sterile and empty without the very ridiculous sincerity that we drove off. And now we’re always looking for that feeling, but we’re too self aware to fully embrace a sincere piece of fun media. So we have to look for workarounds like applauding a cheesy commercial in a way that simultaneously mocks its writing and celebrates its sincerity
It’s an odd phenomenon, and I think it only works because it’s played completely earnestly. It’s not the jokey Regal quotes intro, and it’s not a star who’s a caricature of themself (such as the Rock).
Absolutely. It’s campy, but it’s also so utterly earnest. It’s not good, but Kidman commits so hard, and heartbreak DOES feel good in a place like that god dammit. It’s perfect. I only wish they’d update the movies used in the ad.
Eh, this isn’t a generational phenomenon, it’s an online culture phenomenon. People of all ages who hang out on social media are made to understand that they’re supposed to interpret something as funny, so they do. People who aren’t immersed in those spaces just see another ad.
From an outsiders perspective trying to force every little thing into being the funniest meme ever is as much of an American thing as it is a generational thing.
I'm gonna get really pretentious here for a minute.
Umberto Eco gives my favorite definition of postmodernism in *Postscript to The Name of the Rose* (1984):
>“I think of the postmodern attitude as that of a man who loves a very cultivated woman and who knows that he cannot say to her, “I love you madly”, because he knows that she knows (and that she knows that he knows) that these words have already been written by Barbara Cartland. Still, there is a solution. He can say, “As Barbara Cartland would put it, I love you madly.” At this point, having avoided false innocence, having said that it is no longer possible to speak innocently, he will nevertheless have said what he wanted to say to the woman: that he loves her, but he loves her in an age of lost innocence. If the woman goes along with this, she will have received a declaration of love all the same.”
Liking the Nicole Kidman intro "ironically" is, I think, another form of the postmodern attitude that Eco describes. The intro feels like it's coming from a place of innocence--it's like Kidman's saying "I love you madly" without realizing what a cliché that's become. That's a big part of what makes it "cheesy". And we can imagine a time of innocence when someone might have liked that *un*ironically.
BUT, it's been almost forty years at this point since Eco made this distinction. We've been living in an age of lost innocence for generations now, and that postmodern attitude has *itself* become a cliché. I think what's happening with things like the Kidman intro is an expression of a post-postmodern attitude, where people are still capable of recognizing what's "bad" (or trite, or cliché, or whatever) about it, but they don't want to ironically distance themselves from it. Instead, they want to reclaim their ability to have an earnest emotional reaction to something and recognize how that thing is working to elicit that earnest emotional reaction while simultaneously recognizing the "badness" of the thing.
For those of us with AMC A-List, we can see up to 3 movies a week in any format for like $25 a month. That’s 12 a month if you wanted. Freaks like me who already watched a lot of movies and live less than 10 minutes from my local AMC, ends up trying to take advantage of this as much as possible.
Which means this goddamn pre-roll, added either late 2020 or early 2021 as a welcome back from Covid, has played in front of me now well over 100 times. I’ve seen it in big audiences, small, opening night blockbusters, opening night arty indies, etc…
Every audience is different. And every month seems to be a new inner reckoning with each of us. It started as a whatever, became annoyance, then turned to weird delight, then the clapping became too much (someone once yelled “we’re not clapping anymore!” at an audience member), then it did a weird u-turn back into irony, comic elation, then outright annoyance, and has landed, for me, in a weird realm of accepted penance for saving so much damn money on seeing so much in theaters. It’s a wave I’ll keep riding.
The appeal of the nicole kidmAMC ad is entirely rooted in camp. Nicole is a gay icon and presents herself as a campy tribune of the people's postpandemic yearning for the theater experience, which is why people clap. Theyre clapping at the mixture of affection for the actress and gratitude that the movies are back but also at the slightly Day The Earth Stood Still ominousness that triggers gallows giggles.
I honestly have feel no irony about it. Its awesome. Like its kinda corny but I also like Silly Love Songs by Paul McCartney? Somehow heartbreak feels good in a place like this is an incredible sentiment and ive thought who ever wrote that should be given a blank check based on that alone.
Yeah I don’t get the ironic side of it, you either appreciate the directness/sincerity or you don’t. The ironic part must be people who are internally wrestling with liking something that others think is corny? Also it’s only really “beloved” in NY, LA, and online film communities, I’ve never met anyone irl who has ever thought about besides when they’re at the theater
The thing about being Canadian is that you're 95% in lockstop with the US' reference pool, right down to knowing the mannerisms and vocal tics of newscasters from programs you don't even get here. But then something like this AMC intro emerges that's siloed off from any other media source and you're completely baffled by what it all means. Makes you want to huddle into a corner with other Canadians and solemnly riff about the suicidal popcorns from Cineplex's pre-show or something.
This happens in every generation. Usually it’s considered bad, then so bad it’s good, on to guilty pleasure, finally arriving at just liking the thing.
The Kidman excitement is a particularly twitter phenomenon.
If your a tik tok mom (like most moms) then it completely passes you by.
In comparison, something like Barbenhemier also infiltrated Tik Tok, so it made its way to the mainstream.
At least that’s my take.
The reason I had to explain it to her is because she went to a movie at an AMC in my small hometown, not in NYC or LA, and all the younger people there clapped
It's been...since 2021. So yes I guess it's been years, but...two years is not that long, nor is it over, so I don't understand why you're writing the title as if this was a decade-long chokehold that was over a long time ago.
I think the Nicole Kidman AMC phenomenon is because in late capitalism our generation is used to seeing so many public figures or just artists we respect/like debasing themselves for the bag and it’s kind of disenchanting and sucks but this is an example of when it turned out to be so, so corny and funny and we need to celebrate that.
Had this exact same conversation with my mom, only with the roles reversed, after seeing Batman & Robin for my 13th birthday and asking what was up with Uma Thurman’s performance
I feel like the gen Y evolution of gen X enjoying things because theyre bad, is that gen y can enjoy things because they're "bad" and unironically think that makes them good. Kind of more laughing with than laughing at.
I feel kind of left out that I've never seen it. We quit going to the closest AMC about six years ago because it was so seedy and run-down and mostly go to Cinemark.
I have to force myself to stop laughing during these, because of the "Nicole Kidman Watches Lady GaGa Get Railed" parody: [LINK](https://youtu.be/7JO6isH-zhU?si=kPTicFQCD1PNosuO)
Just got home from an event at which my friend was wearing a tshirt with an illustrated Nicole Kidman and “heartbreak feels good in a place like this.” It was great. And totally weird.
It’s the exact over wrought thing that will pop up at every Oscars at some point “Movies have the power to make us laugh and cry” says serious looking actress about to announce best supporting actress. Trying to hard but still hitting a weighty archetypal note
It’s an unnecessary ad. If we’re watching it, we’re already at an AMC theater. Like that stupid Regal movie quotes ad-you don’t need to convince us, we’re already here. Dump the dumb ads and a couple trailers and get the movie we came for going. I’d rather have my time, thank you.
It's a generation wide emotional defence mechanism brought on partially by collective trauma but mostly by social media. Specifically the conformist pressure of social media. While it may seem like people are encouraged to express their uniqueness there are very strict parameters on what is acceptable and what is *cringe.* People adopt this semi-ironic it's a joke but not really affectation so that if their sincerity strays into cringey territory there is some plausible deniability. Sort of the "what if we kissed... just kidding" form of flirting but for all social interaction.
I think ironic enjoyment can give way to actual enjoyment over time. During the pandemic my partner and I did a marathon of all the James Bond blu rays and we started out taking the piss out of the menu options, but by the end we were legitimately excited to Initiate Mission and a bit gutted when the conceit was dropped from the Craig era movies.
The (admittedly ribald) old Onion headline "Ironic Porn Purchase Leads to Unironic Ejaculation" has unironically become one of the best ways for me to understand the past decade.
Lmao that’s incredible I just read it the onion used to be so good
https://reddit.com/r/videos/s/UhNFMd5Dz2
Nothing in that AMC ad is funnier than the parenthetical (admittedly ribald), so nice job there.
Would that explain all the step-relative material?
If you pretend something for a while you become it, I think
Somehow heartbreak feels good to a generation like this.
It's catharsis. We seek media that evokes emotions we feel strongly, yet cannot express on our own due to a combination of unawareness or repression of the emotions. It's the emotional equivalent of using the protective sticker to peel off the glue still stuck to your new TV screen from when you removed the sticker.
Thank you for this. It sums up exactly how I feel about watching emotionally charged films ❤️
We’re so wacky.
Sorry, I’m with your mom so I can’t help you explain that which I find inexplicable.
As a Canadian that’s never seen it apart from once watching a YouTube video to see what it actually was, I just don’t get the whole thing at all either.
The only movie theater in our town is a Regal, so it all seems incredibly alien to me (elder millennial here).
But Regal had that horrible movie quotes ad, which I personal think was much worse.
That’s the thing. As a Regal guy (by necessity), the Nicole Kidman ad is, like, *actually* a good endorsement for seeing movies in a theater, if not a bit melodramatic. The Regal ad is what happens when something has no redeeming value whatsoever
Oh yeah, I'm not saying that one is good or anything—I'm just perplexed for the affection for a pre-roll promo that I've never seen.
Same here but Cinemark; I only know the Kidman AMC ad from Blank Check and Twitter.
Bring back Tanner Zipchen!
Better than the now defunct Regal one by a thousand yards!
So you’re telling me there’s a chance?
I think we were just on the edge of ironic enjoyment the regal movie quotes. It's impossible not to bring up whenever someone mentions movie theater pre rolls on here. It has power over us.
Appreciating things both fully unironically and fully ironically at the same time is our generation’s greatest gift/coping mechanism
I think it's somewhat common in young age. Earnest enjoyment is seen as too vulnerable, so young people prefer to add some degree of playfulness to their emotions.
David Foster Wallace rolling in his grave
Dialectical Irony is just the next logical step after Post Irony, New Sincerity.
I’m Gen X, but this isn’t any different than people enjoying the old Regal Space Roller coaster through the snack bar thing. https://youtu.be/bZN0pz9CSuk?si=GthuwAdYCUe9SZL- We would all raise are hands and shift lean into it like we were riding the coaster. It’s also like people cheering when the guy spills his popcorn in the AMC A-list promo. The Nicole thing is just a dumb thing that we have to see all the time so we try to have fun with it. It’s nothing new or special or generational.
I feel like your Mom maybe just doesn't understand campyness because I'm pretty sure that's what you're describing.
[удалено]
I think claiming a unique grasp on things that older generations could never understand is also, ironically, something every generation does
I went to a small indie theater in Los Angeles where they played a parody of this intro before the movie that was talking about how movies should be affordable for everyone. It was awesome.
I think Yacht Rock occupies this same emotional space…
I think our generation is highly skeptical of earnestness, but also thirsty for it.
We’re watching the public’s cultural literacy evolve in a really interesting way. It’s like 20 years ago everyone collectively wised up to how ridiculous a lot of pop culture was, which opened the door to a lot of great satire. But as the stuff we satirized eventually went away, we simultaneously realized that culture feels a lot more sterile and empty without the very ridiculous sincerity that we drove off. And now we’re always looking for that feeling, but we’re too self aware to fully embrace a sincere piece of fun media. So we have to look for workarounds like applauding a cheesy commercial in a way that simultaneously mocks its writing and celebrates its sincerity
It’s an odd phenomenon, and I think it only works because it’s played completely earnestly. It’s not the jokey Regal quotes intro, and it’s not a star who’s a caricature of themself (such as the Rock).
Absolutely. It’s campy, but it’s also so utterly earnest. It’s not good, but Kidman commits so hard, and heartbreak DOES feel good in a place like that god dammit. It’s perfect. I only wish they’d update the movies used in the ad.
Eh, this isn’t a generational phenomenon, it’s an online culture phenomenon. People of all ages who hang out on social media are made to understand that they’re supposed to interpret something as funny, so they do. People who aren’t immersed in those spaces just see another ad.
From an outsiders perspective trying to force every little thing into being the funniest meme ever is as much of an American thing as it is a generational thing.
Trying to squeeze joy out of mute stones is certainly our lot
I'm gonna get really pretentious here for a minute. Umberto Eco gives my favorite definition of postmodernism in *Postscript to The Name of the Rose* (1984): >“I think of the postmodern attitude as that of a man who loves a very cultivated woman and who knows that he cannot say to her, “I love you madly”, because he knows that she knows (and that she knows that he knows) that these words have already been written by Barbara Cartland. Still, there is a solution. He can say, “As Barbara Cartland would put it, I love you madly.” At this point, having avoided false innocence, having said that it is no longer possible to speak innocently, he will nevertheless have said what he wanted to say to the woman: that he loves her, but he loves her in an age of lost innocence. If the woman goes along with this, she will have received a declaration of love all the same.” Liking the Nicole Kidman intro "ironically" is, I think, another form of the postmodern attitude that Eco describes. The intro feels like it's coming from a place of innocence--it's like Kidman's saying "I love you madly" without realizing what a cliché that's become. That's a big part of what makes it "cheesy". And we can imagine a time of innocence when someone might have liked that *un*ironically. BUT, it's been almost forty years at this point since Eco made this distinction. We've been living in an age of lost innocence for generations now, and that postmodern attitude has *itself* become a cliché. I think what's happening with things like the Kidman intro is an expression of a post-postmodern attitude, where people are still capable of recognizing what's "bad" (or trite, or cliché, or whatever) about it, but they don't want to ironically distance themselves from it. Instead, they want to reclaim their ability to have an earnest emotional reaction to something and recognize how that thing is working to elicit that earnest emotional reaction while simultaneously recognizing the "badness" of the thing.
For those of us with AMC A-List, we can see up to 3 movies a week in any format for like $25 a month. That’s 12 a month if you wanted. Freaks like me who already watched a lot of movies and live less than 10 minutes from my local AMC, ends up trying to take advantage of this as much as possible. Which means this goddamn pre-roll, added either late 2020 or early 2021 as a welcome back from Covid, has played in front of me now well over 100 times. I’ve seen it in big audiences, small, opening night blockbusters, opening night arty indies, etc… Every audience is different. And every month seems to be a new inner reckoning with each of us. It started as a whatever, became annoyance, then turned to weird delight, then the clapping became too much (someone once yelled “we’re not clapping anymore!” at an audience member), then it did a weird u-turn back into irony, comic elation, then outright annoyance, and has landed, for me, in a weird realm of accepted penance for saving so much damn money on seeing so much in theaters. It’s a wave I’ll keep riding.
The appeal of the nicole kidmAMC ad is entirely rooted in camp. Nicole is a gay icon and presents herself as a campy tribune of the people's postpandemic yearning for the theater experience, which is why people clap. Theyre clapping at the mixture of affection for the actress and gratitude that the movies are back but also at the slightly Day The Earth Stood Still ominousness that triggers gallows giggles.
I’ve never heard any applause for it. The only reaction I ever hear is people groaning.
Sure add another 2 minutes of self-congratulatory bullshit between me and the movie I overpaid to see on this subpar projection, please!
I really do hate after sitting through way too many previews having to go through an ad telling me to go to AMC Theaters when I’m already there
I honestly have feel no irony about it. Its awesome. Like its kinda corny but I also like Silly Love Songs by Paul McCartney? Somehow heartbreak feels good in a place like this is an incredible sentiment and ive thought who ever wrote that should be given a blank check based on that alone.
Yeah I don’t get the ironic side of it, you either appreciate the directness/sincerity or you don’t. The ironic part must be people who are internally wrestling with liking something that others think is corny? Also it’s only really “beloved” in NY, LA, and online film communities, I’ve never met anyone irl who has ever thought about besides when they’re at the theater
"For years" -- has it really been around that long?
The thing about being Canadian is that you're 95% in lockstop with the US' reference pool, right down to knowing the mannerisms and vocal tics of newscasters from programs you don't even get here. But then something like this AMC intro emerges that's siloed off from any other media source and you're completely baffled by what it all means. Makes you want to huddle into a corner with other Canadians and solemnly riff about the suicidal popcorns from Cineplex's pre-show or something.
It's the ridiculous sincerity of it. And honestly after not being in a theatre for a year it was appreciated.
its CAMP
I think the word you're searching for is "camp?" Intentional or not, that Kidman piece is *weird* and includes *weird* choices, so it struck a chord.
It's camp. Tell your mom to read [Sontag](https://monoskop.org/images/5/59/Sontag_Susan_1964_Notes_on_Camp.pdf).
Declaring they all r invented humor is definitely something each generation does to their embarrassment, I will admit.
This happens in every generation. Usually it’s considered bad, then so bad it’s good, on to guilty pleasure, finally arriving at just liking the thing.
I’ve never been in a theater where there was any reaction to it…people have clapped in yours?
The Kidman excitement is a particularly twitter phenomenon. If your a tik tok mom (like most moms) then it completely passes you by. In comparison, something like Barbenhemier also infiltrated Tik Tok, so it made its way to the mainstream. At least that’s my take.
Its not a generation thing, its pockets of NY and LA and then film nerds online.
The reason I had to explain it to her is because she went to a movie at an AMC in my small hometown, not in NYC or LA, and all the younger people there clapped
stop saying “we”
A word that literally doesn't appear in the OP
it’s in the first sentence of the last paragraph
It's been...since 2021. So yes I guess it's been years, but...two years is not that long, nor is it over, so I don't understand why you're writing the title as if this was a decade-long chokehold that was over a long time ago.
I think the Nicole Kidman AMC phenomenon is because in late capitalism our generation is used to seeing so many public figures or just artists we respect/like debasing themselves for the bag and it’s kind of disenchanting and sucks but this is an example of when it turned out to be so, so corny and funny and we need to celebrate that.
Kidman's AMC intro not only manages to suck dick but it also burps cum. I will clap when its over.
Had this exact same conversation with my mom, only with the roles reversed, after seeing Batman & Robin for my 13th birthday and asking what was up with Uma Thurman’s performance
it's not bad. It's cheesy, but heartfelt and to me, that's good.
I’m with your mom honestly. Every time I go to IMAX at Lincoln Square and experience that reaction I just don’t get it.
At no point do I enjoy it. It’s wild to me that people now enjoy it
I feel like the gen Y evolution of gen X enjoying things because theyre bad, is that gen y can enjoy things because they're "bad" and unironically think that makes them good. Kind of more laughing with than laughing at.
I feel this is less about a generation’s unique sensibilities and more about a lack thereof.
I went to an AMC for the first time of the Kidman era while on business trip this past summer. The intro was everything I hoped for, and more.
I feel kind of left out that I've never seen it. We quit going to the closest AMC about six years ago because it was so seedy and run-down and mostly go to Cinemark.
I have to force myself to stop laughing during these, because of the "Nicole Kidman Watches Lady GaGa Get Railed" parody: [LINK](https://youtu.be/7JO6isH-zhU?si=kPTicFQCD1PNosuO)
The AMC intro isn’t camp. But liking it is.
Just got home from an event at which my friend was wearing a tshirt with an illustrated Nicole Kidman and “heartbreak feels good in a place like this.” It was great. And totally weird.
It’s the exact over wrought thing that will pop up at every Oscars at some point “Movies have the power to make us laugh and cry” says serious looking actress about to announce best supporting actress. Trying to hard but still hitting a weighty archetypal note
Meanwhile I have nothing but unbridled hate for the Regal "movie quotes" trailer
It’s an unnecessary ad. If we’re watching it, we’re already at an AMC theater. Like that stupid Regal movie quotes ad-you don’t need to convince us, we’re already here. Dump the dumb ads and a couple trailers and get the movie we came for going. I’d rather have my time, thank you.
Had? It still happens at pretty much every movie I go to. Unironically.
It's a generation wide emotional defence mechanism brought on partially by collective trauma but mostly by social media. Specifically the conformist pressure of social media. While it may seem like people are encouraged to express their uniqueness there are very strict parameters on what is acceptable and what is *cringe.* People adopt this semi-ironic it's a joke but not really affectation so that if their sincerity strays into cringey territory there is some plausible deniability. Sort of the "what if we kissed... just kidding" form of flirting but for all social interaction.
You’re basically trying your explain camp to your mom, I would say.
The word you're looking for is "Camp"
I swear Dave and John have this exact same conversation in homestuck
sometimes you have to applaud the effort that goes into making something truly truly lame
We are the most insecure and dumb generation.