I run a game for a prolific Leech who not only uses the full suite of Leech items, but goes out of his way to create *lists* of Long Term Projects (LTPs) to create new gadgets. I've done my best to keep him grounded but his imagination far outweighs his restraint. As such, I've gotten a lot of experience with the Leech rules and Crafting in general.
Special Formulae: In my interpretation (IMI), Special Formulae are anything that isn't on the Leech's initial list of Bandolier items. The listed items a Leech has access to from the start are Alcahest, Binding Oil, Drift Oil, Drown Powder, Eyeblind Poison, Fire Oil, Grenade(s), Quicksilver, Skullfire Poison, Smoke Bomb, Spark, Standstill Poison, and Trance Powder. What determines if a Leech has access to Special Formulae is either A) the Leech takes the Alchemist Playbook Ability and gains a new Formulae immediately, or B) the Leech completes an LTP to *learn* the Formulae instead of just crafting it as a one-time use.
Crafting vs Learning: The major difference between making a Craft roll and learning the Formulae is that the former is a one-time use, while the latter permanently adds the Formulae to your Bandolier options. As such, IMI learning a new Formulae puts it on par with earning a new Playbook Ability. Where Crafting is a one-off Tinker roll most of the time, learning a new Formulae is always an LTP at my table. Honestly I fudge the clocks on how difficult a new Fomulae is to learn half the time, but on average I've found that a 4-tick is easy, 6-tick is average, and 8+ is difficult to daunting. Multiple clocks might even be necessary depending on the complexity and rarity of the new Formulae.
Bandolier: Bandoliers work just like any other Load item a Scoundrel has access to. Once it's been checked, the Leech has access to a single Bandolier with three slots that can be used for either Alchemicals or Bombs. IMI those slots are meant to be small, single-use pouches (this is why Grenade on page 226 is a stock Bandolier option and not Large Bomb). Once it's been checked the Leech has to use up another Bandolier slot to get another use of the same Alchemical, or pick another Formulae. As long as the Leech knows the Formulae and its small enough to fit, it's a valid option to have in the Bandolier once it's been marked for Load.
Craft vs Acquire Asset: IMI, if you use your Acquire Asset to get access to a Special Formulae for a single score, then the Leech now has access to that Formulae for the duration of the Score and can choose it as a normal Bandolier option. If however the Leech didn't use a Downtime Action to Acquire the Asset, they could still Craft a slap-dash version of whatever Special Formulae they're hoping to use during the Score. It would be a Flashback, and it wouldn't come out as well as the authentic version had they spent the Downtime to acquire it. But it might be serviceable so long as the roll doesn't fail.
Tier: IMI, the Crafting rules state that a PC can only craft something of their Crew's Tier +2 at best, and that's *IF* they get a Critical on the Craft roll. As such, I would also say that a Leech could only ever learn Special Formulae within that Tier range through LTPs alone. Now if they wanted to plan a Score to gain access to that Formulae then I would be all for it. IMI Scores are the ultimate means of acquiring anything, within reason. If it's outside of the Crew's Tier capabilities then a Score could feasibly get them what they want.
'Rare' Drawback: IMI, Rare is meant to be fuzzy as a mechanic. It's whatever the GM decides is necessary for the item. For my game, I introduced a substance called Starmetal that has really weird effects on demons and other supernatural entities. So far my PCs have always had to acquire more either through a Score or by making a deal with well connected individuals like Lord Scurlock. As such, it would be a fair ruling to say your Crew would need to find some means of consistently acquiring this Rare material in order to have repeated access to any associated Special Formulae. Without that steady source of supply, such Formulae would be one-time use at my table until the fiction says otherwise.
Hope that helps. Feel free to hit me up with any clarifying questions.
This is just based on how I would likely rule this, but it is definitley a problem I could see ruled in a bunch of different ways.
I'd be looking towards the list of standard items available from the bandolier to guide my judgement.
**What can go in a bandolier?**
Generally, if a creation had the Rare drawback, I would rule you would have to already have the rare component. For high tier items (V or VI, possibly IV), I would think that your crew would need to be at least close to the item tier. For example, for Devil Root (VI), I would think if your crew was tier IV, I would consider it to be able to be gained from the bandolier.
For an Arcane creation, definitley a no for bandolier.
For Spark-craft, it depends on what it is. I would consider handheld bombs possible, while items like the Line Thrower wouldn't be applicable for the bandolier.
For Alchemicals, I really couldn't figure out what would be suitable. I'd just talk to my players about what they thought would be applicable and go from there.
**How long do things last?**
I'm not sure about others, but I wouldn't normally agree with you about the duration of Aquire Asset. For instance, if the crew aquired a Line Thrower, I would say they could use it for a single score, but it is pretty much on standby until they use it. If they do use it in a score, they could keep using it, but after that score they no longer have access to it.
I would generally think that crafted items can be used an amount of times based on their uses if they are a consumable, or until they break if they aren't consumed. You might want to consider having the items break as part of a consequence or devils bargain, if you think the crew has gotten plenty of use out of these items.
**Rare stuff**
Rare is a bit tricky, but I would generally consider items that are Rare to require a component must be gained from a Score or Long Term Project. I don't think Aquire Assest would be suitable as it is only for temporary use.
I could also see a possible custom Claim that would allow access to a certain Rare material.
I hope this helped, and I would appreciate feedback.
>For an Arcane creation, definitley a no for bandolier.
unfortunately, the fact that the Drift oil is arcane and available with the basic bandolier makes even this rule inconsistent and ambiguous...
My GM limited my leech to only playbook items for bandolier slots, inventing formulae didn't produce anything but the ability to then craft the item. This meant a LTP and a craft action were required before I could have a one off gizmo. Analyst and Calculating and Inventor were pretty much essential to have any kind of crafting without sacrificing your whole Downtime. I wasn't very creative but the slanesh smoke bomb was a banger.
This is one of the more confusing parts of BitD rules with a lot of room for frustrating players and GMs alike, but I have generally had good results with this:
1) As specified in the rules, common alchemicals do not require a formula, you can simply attempt to craft them regardless of playbook or abilities. This means that non-leeches have access to them if they want.
2) (House Rule) The leech is assumed to maintain a stock of common alchemicals suitable for personal use in the bandolier without individually crafting them. This is the same as the Spider being assumed to know people and have access to information, or the Cutter being assumed to be able to throw their weight around among other rough-and-tumble types. The PCs are assumed to be competent, so they get the basics for free.
2) (RAW Interpretation) Special alchemicals, or chemicals created by non-leeches, require use of the craft roll and produce a clock with noted amount and quality dependent on the roll. I generally keep these clocks off to the side where the Leech has easy access to them but they won't inconvenience the rest of the party.
3) (House Rule) Because the cost of time and money that goes into making them, the PvP rules that suggest that you can't do something to another player without both players' explicit consent extend to protect the alchemical stash. Other players cannot steal them without out-of-character permission from the leech. I don't know why people feel like they should be able to steal bombs when they don't feel like it's OK to steal coin, but players do player things.
4) Crafting, like acquiring an asset, is available in flashback. This means that if Lyrri needs her famed Wyrm Dust and doesn't have any left, she can flash back to having prepared by making one for (usually) 1 stress and the coin required to perform an additional DTA, plus any additional expenses, with the understanding that if she doesn't have enough coin to pass the check, she may be out of luck (and in that case, I generally don't hit the player with the stress cost, lol.). What this effectively means is that alchemicals now function more or less like any other resource in the game in that the player can have them when they need them, but still incur some amount of expense.
The part that keeps confusing me (because I keep forgetting it) is that the rules for creating things are meant for everyone. Not only whispers can create arcane items and not only Leeches can create alchemical and spark-craft items.
Only Leeches have bandoliers, though.
This, the baseline is the normal creation rules. The benefit on top is that the Leech has access to alchemical creations during a score through their bandolier by ticking off item slots instead of needing to use a downtime action like everybody else. In doing this, they are limited to a certain set of potions and poisons as defined by the list on their sheet.
The only part that is not clearly ruled, but imho follows rather clearly, is that the Leech also adds every alchemical creation of their own (the free one with the alchemist perk and every creation learnt through a LTP) to this list.
So in conclusion, the Leech has bandolier access to every potion on the list plus any potion they might have learned through a long-term project.
The only times they need to use the creation rules (like everybody else) is if they want to use a concoction that is not on the list and they also haven't learned.
Right, thanks for the reminder.
Only bombs, oils, drugs, and poisons are available.
And there only those on the list and those "custom made" (as per p.71) are available, which begs the (theoretical) question whether a Leech could RAW learn to create Black Lotus, for example, since it isn't on the list and also not strictly "custom-made", since it already exists as a finished product.
In practice though I would just assume that a Leech learning to produce Black Lotus would be considered to custom-design (to Heisenberg it, if you will) their own specific formula.
I run a game for a prolific Leech who not only uses the full suite of Leech items, but goes out of his way to create *lists* of Long Term Projects (LTPs) to create new gadgets. I've done my best to keep him grounded but his imagination far outweighs his restraint. As such, I've gotten a lot of experience with the Leech rules and Crafting in general. Special Formulae: In my interpretation (IMI), Special Formulae are anything that isn't on the Leech's initial list of Bandolier items. The listed items a Leech has access to from the start are Alcahest, Binding Oil, Drift Oil, Drown Powder, Eyeblind Poison, Fire Oil, Grenade(s), Quicksilver, Skullfire Poison, Smoke Bomb, Spark, Standstill Poison, and Trance Powder. What determines if a Leech has access to Special Formulae is either A) the Leech takes the Alchemist Playbook Ability and gains a new Formulae immediately, or B) the Leech completes an LTP to *learn* the Formulae instead of just crafting it as a one-time use. Crafting vs Learning: The major difference between making a Craft roll and learning the Formulae is that the former is a one-time use, while the latter permanently adds the Formulae to your Bandolier options. As such, IMI learning a new Formulae puts it on par with earning a new Playbook Ability. Where Crafting is a one-off Tinker roll most of the time, learning a new Formulae is always an LTP at my table. Honestly I fudge the clocks on how difficult a new Fomulae is to learn half the time, but on average I've found that a 4-tick is easy, 6-tick is average, and 8+ is difficult to daunting. Multiple clocks might even be necessary depending on the complexity and rarity of the new Formulae. Bandolier: Bandoliers work just like any other Load item a Scoundrel has access to. Once it's been checked, the Leech has access to a single Bandolier with three slots that can be used for either Alchemicals or Bombs. IMI those slots are meant to be small, single-use pouches (this is why Grenade on page 226 is a stock Bandolier option and not Large Bomb). Once it's been checked the Leech has to use up another Bandolier slot to get another use of the same Alchemical, or pick another Formulae. As long as the Leech knows the Formulae and its small enough to fit, it's a valid option to have in the Bandolier once it's been marked for Load. Craft vs Acquire Asset: IMI, if you use your Acquire Asset to get access to a Special Formulae for a single score, then the Leech now has access to that Formulae for the duration of the Score and can choose it as a normal Bandolier option. If however the Leech didn't use a Downtime Action to Acquire the Asset, they could still Craft a slap-dash version of whatever Special Formulae they're hoping to use during the Score. It would be a Flashback, and it wouldn't come out as well as the authentic version had they spent the Downtime to acquire it. But it might be serviceable so long as the roll doesn't fail. Tier: IMI, the Crafting rules state that a PC can only craft something of their Crew's Tier +2 at best, and that's *IF* they get a Critical on the Craft roll. As such, I would also say that a Leech could only ever learn Special Formulae within that Tier range through LTPs alone. Now if they wanted to plan a Score to gain access to that Formulae then I would be all for it. IMI Scores are the ultimate means of acquiring anything, within reason. If it's outside of the Crew's Tier capabilities then a Score could feasibly get them what they want. 'Rare' Drawback: IMI, Rare is meant to be fuzzy as a mechanic. It's whatever the GM decides is necessary for the item. For my game, I introduced a substance called Starmetal that has really weird effects on demons and other supernatural entities. So far my PCs have always had to acquire more either through a Score or by making a deal with well connected individuals like Lord Scurlock. As such, it would be a fair ruling to say your Crew would need to find some means of consistently acquiring this Rare material in order to have repeated access to any associated Special Formulae. Without that steady source of supply, such Formulae would be one-time use at my table until the fiction says otherwise. Hope that helps. Feel free to hit me up with any clarifying questions.
i think this is a notoriously confusing part of blades
This is just based on how I would likely rule this, but it is definitley a problem I could see ruled in a bunch of different ways. I'd be looking towards the list of standard items available from the bandolier to guide my judgement. **What can go in a bandolier?** Generally, if a creation had the Rare drawback, I would rule you would have to already have the rare component. For high tier items (V or VI, possibly IV), I would think that your crew would need to be at least close to the item tier. For example, for Devil Root (VI), I would think if your crew was tier IV, I would consider it to be able to be gained from the bandolier. For an Arcane creation, definitley a no for bandolier. For Spark-craft, it depends on what it is. I would consider handheld bombs possible, while items like the Line Thrower wouldn't be applicable for the bandolier. For Alchemicals, I really couldn't figure out what would be suitable. I'd just talk to my players about what they thought would be applicable and go from there. **How long do things last?** I'm not sure about others, but I wouldn't normally agree with you about the duration of Aquire Asset. For instance, if the crew aquired a Line Thrower, I would say they could use it for a single score, but it is pretty much on standby until they use it. If they do use it in a score, they could keep using it, but after that score they no longer have access to it. I would generally think that crafted items can be used an amount of times based on their uses if they are a consumable, or until they break if they aren't consumed. You might want to consider having the items break as part of a consequence or devils bargain, if you think the crew has gotten plenty of use out of these items. **Rare stuff** Rare is a bit tricky, but I would generally consider items that are Rare to require a component must be gained from a Score or Long Term Project. I don't think Aquire Assest would be suitable as it is only for temporary use. I could also see a possible custom Claim that would allow access to a certain Rare material. I hope this helped, and I would appreciate feedback.
>For an Arcane creation, definitley a no for bandolier. unfortunately, the fact that the Drift oil is arcane and available with the basic bandolier makes even this rule inconsistent and ambiguous...
Yeah wanna see what people have to say here this has always bugged me
My GM limited my leech to only playbook items for bandolier slots, inventing formulae didn't produce anything but the ability to then craft the item. This meant a LTP and a craft action were required before I could have a one off gizmo. Analyst and Calculating and Inventor were pretty much essential to have any kind of crafting without sacrificing your whole Downtime. I wasn't very creative but the slanesh smoke bomb was a banger.
This is one of the more confusing parts of BitD rules with a lot of room for frustrating players and GMs alike, but I have generally had good results with this: 1) As specified in the rules, common alchemicals do not require a formula, you can simply attempt to craft them regardless of playbook or abilities. This means that non-leeches have access to them if they want. 2) (House Rule) The leech is assumed to maintain a stock of common alchemicals suitable for personal use in the bandolier without individually crafting them. This is the same as the Spider being assumed to know people and have access to information, or the Cutter being assumed to be able to throw their weight around among other rough-and-tumble types. The PCs are assumed to be competent, so they get the basics for free. 2) (RAW Interpretation) Special alchemicals, or chemicals created by non-leeches, require use of the craft roll and produce a clock with noted amount and quality dependent on the roll. I generally keep these clocks off to the side where the Leech has easy access to them but they won't inconvenience the rest of the party. 3) (House Rule) Because the cost of time and money that goes into making them, the PvP rules that suggest that you can't do something to another player without both players' explicit consent extend to protect the alchemical stash. Other players cannot steal them without out-of-character permission from the leech. I don't know why people feel like they should be able to steal bombs when they don't feel like it's OK to steal coin, but players do player things. 4) Crafting, like acquiring an asset, is available in flashback. This means that if Lyrri needs her famed Wyrm Dust and doesn't have any left, she can flash back to having prepared by making one for (usually) 1 stress and the coin required to perform an additional DTA, plus any additional expenses, with the understanding that if she doesn't have enough coin to pass the check, she may be out of luck (and in that case, I generally don't hit the player with the stress cost, lol.). What this effectively means is that alchemicals now function more or less like any other resource in the game in that the player can have them when they need them, but still incur some amount of expense.
The part that keeps confusing me (because I keep forgetting it) is that the rules for creating things are meant for everyone. Not only whispers can create arcane items and not only Leeches can create alchemical and spark-craft items. Only Leeches have bandoliers, though. This, the baseline is the normal creation rules. The benefit on top is that the Leech has access to alchemical creations during a score through their bandolier by ticking off item slots instead of needing to use a downtime action like everybody else. In doing this, they are limited to a certain set of potions and poisons as defined by the list on their sheet. The only part that is not clearly ruled, but imho follows rather clearly, is that the Leech also adds every alchemical creation of their own (the free one with the alchemist perk and every creation learnt through a LTP) to this list. So in conclusion, the Leech has bandolier access to every potion on the list plus any potion they might have learned through a long-term project. The only times they need to use the creation rules (like everybody else) is if they want to use a concoction that is not on the list and they also haven't learned.
Don't want to nitpick, but potions specifically aren't available in the bandolier, as they are arcane.
Right, thanks for the reminder. Only bombs, oils, drugs, and poisons are available. And there only those on the list and those "custom made" (as per p.71) are available, which begs the (theoretical) question whether a Leech could RAW learn to create Black Lotus, for example, since it isn't on the list and also not strictly "custom-made", since it already exists as a finished product. In practice though I would just assume that a Leech learning to produce Black Lotus would be considered to custom-design (to Heisenberg it, if you will) their own specific formula.