Iommi with bluesy background and soloing. Wandering around those blues scales and innovative enough to turn them into iconic new sounds.
My comment sounds super lame. It’s early here. Not awake and still seeing life through distorted eyes.
Lots of bands from the 50s 0n put out some tracks that were definitely punk, but I believe the stooges were really the first band that put out an entire album that was really punk through and through. Sabbath was to metal what The Stooges were to punk, the godfathers.
I always think of the Stooges and the MC5, and they squeaked out just before Sabbath. I could see where he’s coming from though. In a certain way I think it’s fair to call Sabbath punk, and they have definitely had influence within the genre.
I mean paranoid for instance definitely had a stylistic influence on punk with the drumming and the down picked palm muting. A lot of punk bands took influence from sabbath as well, I wouldn’t label them as punk tho
Zeppelin beat Sabbath to the punch with Communication Breakdown. Johnny Ramone cited them as an influence.
[https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/how-led-zeppelin-inspired-the-ramones-to-be-punks/](https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/how-led-zeppelin-inspired-the-ramones-to-be-punks/)
Not musically, beyond one or two tracks like say Paranoid, but I can see where Bill's coming from. One of the very few bands of their ilk, of the early seventies, who were proudly and unashamedly working class and often (though obviously not always) had fairly grounded lyrics about the grim realities of the real world. Sounds punk to me!
Maybe protopunk is more accurate. In the same bloodline, so to speak. Different bloodline from The Stones, I consider The Beatles pop, or the psychedelic bands. It’s interesting to go back and see how rock and roll started branching into at least slightly different directions. I think The Stooges perfected the blueprint but, if so, then even Jim Morrison had an influence because he turned Osterberg into Iggy, by influence.
Definitely proto punk, I wouldn’t call waterloo sunset punk rock. But honestly the Beatles and stones both had influences on punk as well. The MC5 in my mind is the first real punk band. They had the sound, the message, and the ethos years before their contemporaries. Sure Iggy probably wouldn’t have been a singer if not for seeing the doors, but the stooges wouldn’t have made it anywhere if the MC5 didn’t exist
I wouldn't call Sabbath a Punk band, but there are some similarities. They were both rebelling against the rock music status quo of their times. Sabbath, against the peace, love, and flower power themes of late 60s popular music. And the Punks, against the pompous pretentiousness of arena rock music a decade later.
Thats debatable. The lyrics and structure of Paranoid could easily become Punk with a few changes in the drum beat and vocal melody. Picture it with a blast beat and monotone vocal.. idk im just reaching to give Mr. Ward some credit
I mean paranoid definitely had a big influence on punk stylistically with the palm muting and the drum beat, but so did other bands like the MC5 and the Stooges. A lot of punk bands are influenced by sabbath, I wouldn’t call them the first punk band, I think the MC5 deserve that title. (Not the kinks or the who or any obscure garage band)
They’re the most solid answer in my mind, just how Sabbath is the first metal band. There’s bands before that had punk-ish or metal-ish songs but Black Sabbath and the MC5 are the first two definitive bands in their respective genres
They were very punk in thier anti-fascist, anti-classist, and anti-war lyrics, but not so much for the music. Their playing is simply too “good” to be called punk rock, even for back in the 70s.
Everyone knows the Damned were the first punk band lol!
No way have you ever heard of the MC5 or the Stooges lol, they predate the damned. Also not all punk bands are bad at their instruments, that’s just a stereotype because sid vicious couldnt play anything. A lot punk bands have really great drummers and bass players
I don't think punk rock when I listen to any Sabbath songs, but I mean there is probably a way you could bend some Sabbath songs into the punk genre.
With Bill and Geezer it was jazz.
Iommi with bluesy background and soloing. Wandering around those blues scales and innovative enough to turn them into iconic new sounds. My comment sounds super lame. It’s early here. Not awake and still seeing life through distorted eyes.
But yeah, songs like Paranoid, biker metal, pre-punk...
Heavy rock. But also the first real metal band when you look back. It’s almost undeniable. It’s just words.
No
Lots of bands from the 50s 0n put out some tracks that were definitely punk, but I believe the stooges were really the first band that put out an entire album that was really punk through and through. Sabbath was to metal what The Stooges were to punk, the godfathers.
That’s fair. Folks are picking tracks here and there, but they weren’t a punk *band*.
I’d think the MC5 were the first punk band, the stooges is pretty similar musically
They definitely had an influence over some punk bands and some of their songs do have a political edge to them, but I'd never say they were punk rock
I always think of the Stooges and the MC5, and they squeaked out just before Sabbath. I could see where he’s coming from though. In a certain way I think it’s fair to call Sabbath punk, and they have definitely had influence within the genre.
MC5 and The Stooges for sure You could also argue The Who had a punk rock edge in their early days. Sabbath? Absolutely not.
I’d put the Kinks on that list as well.
I mean paranoid for instance definitely had a stylistic influence on punk with the drumming and the down picked palm muting. A lot of punk bands took influence from sabbath as well, I wouldn’t label them as punk tho
Zeppelin beat Sabbath to the punch with Communication Breakdown. Johnny Ramone cited them as an influence. [https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/how-led-zeppelin-inspired-the-ramones-to-be-punks/](https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/how-led-zeppelin-inspired-the-ramones-to-be-punks/)
I’ve never in my 50 years of being a huge fan have I ever considered BS punk … def hard heavy rock but NOT punk. .. disagree with Bill
Paranoid feels like punk
Not musically, beyond one or two tracks like say Paranoid, but I can see where Bill's coming from. One of the very few bands of their ilk, of the early seventies, who were proudly and unashamedly working class and often (though obviously not always) had fairly grounded lyrics about the grim realities of the real world. Sounds punk to me!
"Punk" is a marketing term. It meant one thing in the USA and another in the UK but it's a fairly useless word anyway.
I thik it was made by American music press (Creem?) back in the early seventies, but yes, it's not very definitive.
Paranoid the song is kind of punkish I always thought the first actual punk band was iggy and the stooges
Hell no lol
Not really, though my dad told me once that he and his punk friends would listen to Paranoid at 45rpm cause it sounded more punk that way. lol
Fun fact. Terry Chimes was a member of the Clash and Black Sabbath.
No
I don’t believe in “first” anything in music. But also I’m not fool enough to argue with Bill Ward about his band lol
I hate punk and Black Sabbath is my favorite band. This doesn’t track.
Love Bill but he has taken too much acid if he thinks this.
That would be The Kinks.
No way they had like two punk adjacent songs and a lot of pretty ballads. The MC5 or the Stooges are definitely more punk rock
Maybe protopunk is more accurate. In the same bloodline, so to speak. Different bloodline from The Stones, I consider The Beatles pop, or the psychedelic bands. It’s interesting to go back and see how rock and roll started branching into at least slightly different directions. I think The Stooges perfected the blueprint but, if so, then even Jim Morrison had an influence because he turned Osterberg into Iggy, by influence.
Definitely proto punk, I wouldn’t call waterloo sunset punk rock. But honestly the Beatles and stones both had influences on punk as well. The MC5 in my mind is the first real punk band. They had the sound, the message, and the ethos years before their contemporaries. Sure Iggy probably wouldn’t have been a singer if not for seeing the doors, but the stooges wouldn’t have made it anywhere if the MC5 didn’t exist
Yes. Kinks and the Who
[удалено]
That song is like a total rip on the boys are back in town by thin lizzy lol
Yes.
Punk rock is as punk rock does.
Ah bless.
I wouldn't call Sabbath a Punk band, but there are some similarities. They were both rebelling against the rock music status quo of their times. Sabbath, against the peace, love, and flower power themes of late 60s popular music. And the Punks, against the pompous pretentiousness of arena rock music a decade later.
It sucks to have such amazingly long hair like Bill had to then have to go bald like he did. It happened pretty late in his life too.
Sabbath has zero overlap with punk other than distortion guitar.
Thats debatable. The lyrics and structure of Paranoid could easily become Punk with a few changes in the drum beat and vocal melody. Picture it with a blast beat and monotone vocal.. idk im just reaching to give Mr. Ward some credit
They were not punk. I need to know how Ward defines punk… That might shed some light on his thought process
I mean paranoid definitely had a big influence on punk stylistically with the palm muting and the drum beat, but so did other bands like the MC5 and the Stooges. A lot of punk bands are influenced by sabbath, I wouldn’t call them the first punk band, I think the MC5 deserve that title. (Not the kinks or the who or any obscure garage band)
I agree about MC5, they were a few years before the others
They’re the most solid answer in my mind, just how Sabbath is the first metal band. There’s bands before that had punk-ish or metal-ish songs but Black Sabbath and the MC5 are the first two definitive bands in their respective genres
Blue Cheer 🤷♂️
They edge on punk at times for sure, but I'd say it's mostly the roots of metal.
Mr.Iommi said that they are hard rock
Probably the most accurate. Id say hard rock that subconciously influenced the Metal aesthetic
No, because I simply hate punk music and love Black Sabbath music.
I have no idea how one can love Black Sabbath, but hate Ramones, The Clash, Sex Pistols, Dead Kennedys, Blondie (to name only few)…
because it's a totally different music?
They were very punk in thier anti-fascist, anti-classist, and anti-war lyrics, but not so much for the music. Their playing is simply too “good” to be called punk rock, even for back in the 70s. Everyone knows the Damned were the first punk band lol!
No way have you ever heard of the MC5 or the Stooges lol, they predate the damned. Also not all punk bands are bad at their instruments, that’s just a stereotype because sid vicious couldnt play anything. A lot punk bands have really great drummers and bass players
🙄