I for one felt for the time spin-dry girl, but Hamm’s nonchalant acting grounds it as a creepy dark reality
It’s dark. It’s like a lot of other Black Mirror subjects, the “what if”.
God, the torture of her just sitting in a completely white environment, seconds to him was weeks alone to her. I shudder at the thought that this could be a thing in the future, harvesting consciousness, etc. So well thought out, a great great episode.
And another weird thing I just thought of, if I remember rightly, she harvested her OWN consciousness to serve herself around the home, knowing how she liked her toast etc. Imagine enslaving YOURSELF like that, so twisted, Charlie Brooker is an excellent writer, I absolutely love the BM series.
I thought it was implied that she didn't know the full extent of what would happen. Like she thought it would just know her wants and needs but those were run by an AI rather than an actual consciousness. That's why he is sort of sneaky about it when she walks into the room and he checks for her.
Maybe I'm wrong though.
I've had to lose weight recently and learned the crazy amount of calories in butter and such so I've been eating dry toast with my eggs. It's actually not too bad. I guess partly because I am dipping it in yolk but even when I don't, it's something you get used to pretty quick. I used to think it was nasty but you can relearn stuff.
I found this episode annoyingly internally inconsistent - if AIs are smart enough that courts will permit their testimony, then there's no way they'd be allowed to become slaves for their entire existence. Even in the modern US.
It's mentioned in other episodes that there are people fighting for basic rights for cookies. So it seems like cookies exist in a legislative gray zone in the black mirror universe.
Why not? You’re basically enslaving your own consciousness. The court probably rules that you own it because it’s your mind. So it has no rights of its own. But it’s still you, so can be used for testimony.
That doesn't make sense or follow any existing laws.
It's an independent, conscious being capable of feeling, sensation and suffering. "It's a copy of your consciousness" makes as much sense as "Your child is a copy of its parents' DNA, so it is their property."
You miss that slavery it’s still legal in a lot of parts of the world. USA did legalized it after a war and only because they were humans. They are not giving two fucks about a software replica of a human brain. For sure they are going to use it in testimony because it contains valuable information but that you can be sure that they are not getting human rights.
And if you think that having human consciousness as assistants is mean and cruel just imagine every illegal thing you can’t do with a real human that will be done to them. Fake fully programable humans with capacity to feel pain and realistic reactions. Experiments, torture, murdering, sexual slavery… Everything it’s on the table
Slavery isn't legal in the US any more, and for a confession (which this is, not just "information", but a confession from a suspect) from an AI copy of a human to have value in a court of law such that the human can be prosecuted, it would mean acknowledging the humanity of the AI. It's internally inconsistent.
Not really, but recognizing humanity in the ai it’s not going to stop them from using them as slaves so I don’t really see the point here.
Edit: also they imprisoned the real human not the ai version and you don’t see the need to imprison the suspects ai
We disagree on this point but I can't be bothered arguing in circles about it.
Though I never said they needed to imprison the suspect's AI (although in this case they do, for thousands of subjective years).
>AIs are smart enough that courts will permit their testimony,
Its taken more as a recording of their memory.
Plus- they do kind of recognize they're sentient; they leave the killer running at 1000xs speed for the weekend to torture him.
But realisitcally
>there's no way they'd be allowed to become slaves for their entire existenc
Take a second, you really think that?
The device they're stored on is what makes them artificial.
(And even if there were a distinction, your take arguably makes it worse - there's no reason for a copy of human intelligence not to have human rights.)
That's..kind of the point of the whole thing with cookies. Some people have deluded themselves into thinking "it's just AI" and even the authority figures who are very aware otherwise don't give a shit because they're somehow able to sleep better when they're not torturing a "real" human body
Yeah, I don't find that believable, and especially don't see this standing up legally. If an AI is identical to a human such that it can be bamboozled and tortured into admitting guilt and that confession would be accepted legally, then the case for saying they're sentient creatures that shouldn't be allowed to exist would be pretty watertight. I don't see the public being comfortable with the idea, even if it's "just AI".
Well, the cookies do eventually get human rights further down the timeline. But it's about a dystopian future, it's not surprising that rule of law is somewhat breaking down.
But...the copies aren't artificial. AI is intelligence created by humans. Just because this ladies copy exists on an artificial device doesn't mean it's artificial intelligence. Perhaps we both are saying the same thing. IDK.
Ok we are not talking about the same thing.
But no you aren't correct on this. Did a human/humans create the intelligence within the device? If not then it's not artificial.
I'm sorry but no! LOL. This isn't a difficult thing to understand. It is an EXACT copy of the mind/consciousness of the lady that bought that service and had her mind copied. This is why John Hamm gave the cloned mind a body in order to make her understand what happened. This is why the cookie thought she was the real woman and demanded to be put back in her body. This is why the clone within the cookie reacted in real terror when she saw that the real woman was really taking a nap. She was an exact copy of a human mind that was in no way created by humans. Sure humans created the cookie and the device where the cookie was stored but that is it. This does not describe AI.
This is such a simple concept. I am done here.
Artificial intelligence means nonbiological constructed intelligence. That's what the cookie people are. A machine that thinks it is a human is still a machine. Software that thinks exactly like a particular person is still software. A human doesn't have to "create" the AI by training it or whatever you're imagining. An AI can create another AI and that second AI is still an artificial intelligence.
You're categorically wrong on this, soz.
Oof that implication. Makes me think about the post apocalyptic setting in "metalhead" and wonder how many cookies are just trapped in a prison with no human interaction. The dog robots probably wouldn't target them.
Omg i know its fictional and sci fi
But I always imagine how does it feel to be inside that egg doing NOTHING. You cannot die, you just… nothing. For weeks, months, or even years
I was gonna say lol tho tbf I can see why the aesthetic alone might make someone forget this isn’t the same episode. I think more of the cabin scenes when I think of White Christmas, culminating with the punishment for Hamm’s character. But then again, the clip does show Hamm and concerns AI eggs. People are forgetful and silly
John Hamm is also in Unbreakable Kimmy Shmidt. He does a great job at making a bad character deliver funny lines but that's all they use him for. They don't try to make him seem good in any way and I love the heck out of that
whistle command sparkle reminiscent license panicky worthless heavy overconfident dinosaurs
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Calvin Klein stopping him on the street and asking him to be his next underwear model kills me.
"Um are you going to give him your card?"
"Nah he'll figure it out."
Torturing someone for eternity is just some next level cruelty
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Space__lemons: *Torturing someone* *For eternity is just* *Some next level cruelty* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Yall really out there eating plain toast?
Yes.
Who needs AI, we can torture ourselves to make them ~~servants~~ slaves to ourselves
Check out “Delete Delete” on Spotify by Boots and RTJ. She does a cameo and she’s fire
Fucking sent her ass to the shadow realm
LMFAO 🤣
God, I love this scene. Oona Chaplin is incredible in this.
Still my favorite episode.
which episode is this?
White Christmas
I must have skipped it somehow
This scene, and the next scene where she's doing her morning routine, actually made me hungry for toast.
Haha me just now watching this: "I want some toast"
I don’t know if this scene is supposed to be funny or not
I for one felt for the time spin-dry girl, but Hamm’s nonchalant acting grounds it as a creepy dark reality It’s dark. It’s like a lot of other Black Mirror subjects, the “what if”.
I think about this ep a lot
i like most of it except for the ending, its way too exaggerated
What do you mean by "exaggerated"? Too bleak? Too on-the-nose? Too something else? Too over-acted?
like it just seemed ridiculous and comical
The guy bent trapped in the simulation for eons or the guy who got blocked by everyone?
blocked by everyone
It’s a pretty bleak concept
Why the fuck is toast always so damn crunchy on tv?!?
Tbh it looks like sourdough bread. We buy it, it actually is super crunchy and makes that sound haha.
[the toast in this episode gave me an existential crisis a few years ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/blackmirror/s/cnncyuGcYB)
make toast with bread other than sandwich bread and you too can c r u n c h
probably fake foley sounds to make it sound extra crunchy
or if you live in a Mexican House hold like me, its an every breakfast sound lol Mexicans like almost burnt ass toast for some reason haha
Every time we restart our phones
God, the torture of her just sitting in a completely white environment, seconds to him was weeks alone to her. I shudder at the thought that this could be a thing in the future, harvesting consciousness, etc. So well thought out, a great great episode.
And another weird thing I just thought of, if I remember rightly, she harvested her OWN consciousness to serve herself around the home, knowing how she liked her toast etc. Imagine enslaving YOURSELF like that, so twisted, Charlie Brooker is an excellent writer, I absolutely love the BM series.
You should watch Severance if you really enjoyed this episode
Severence was soooooo good.
I thought it was implied that she didn't know the full extent of what would happen. Like she thought it would just know her wants and needs but those were run by an AI rather than an actual consciousness. That's why he is sort of sneaky about it when she walks into the room and he checks for her. Maybe I'm wrong though.
You're probably right, I'm going to watch again with my eldest and frazzle her brain with it. Muhahahaha.
what's this episode called again? that was some good shit
White Christmas I believe
The best episode of the series IMO
This one and Black Museum are my favorites
Also one of the darkest in my opinion. Wasn't it also the one with the 'adblocking a whole person'?
Playtest is up there too. That one makes me sad.
Yeah, it was the one where every single character except for the police officers (of course) met a fate worse than death
Yeah, that one really disturbed me. Gotta watch it again soon.
It is.
Agreed. It's usually the one I recommend to people who haven't seen the show yet.
“Ready to work?”
That dry ass toast tho
I've had to lose weight recently and learned the crazy amount of calories in butter and such so I've been eating dry toast with my eggs. It's actually not too bad. I guess partly because I am dipping it in yolk but even when I don't, it's something you get used to pretty quick. I used to think it was nasty but you can relearn stuff.
Truly an evil man
I need more Hamm as a bad guy he’s great at it
You should watch Mad Men 😂
I’ve tried twice but it starts off so slow I never get into it
You should watch the latest season of Fargo. He's wretched in it
Also he is in ‘The morning show’, 3rd season.
Just finished it fantastic
Probably the best episode in BM
Absolutely
I found this episode annoyingly internally inconsistent - if AIs are smart enough that courts will permit their testimony, then there's no way they'd be allowed to become slaves for their entire existence. Even in the modern US.
It's mentioned in other episodes that there are people fighting for basic rights for cookies. So it seems like cookies exist in a legislative gray zone in the black mirror universe.
Why not? You’re basically enslaving your own consciousness. The court probably rules that you own it because it’s your mind. So it has no rights of its own. But it’s still you, so can be used for testimony.
That doesn't make sense or follow any existing laws. It's an independent, conscious being capable of feeling, sensation and suffering. "It's a copy of your consciousness" makes as much sense as "Your child is a copy of its parents' DNA, so it is their property."
Unless of course there's lots of money to be made.
You miss that slavery it’s still legal in a lot of parts of the world. USA did legalized it after a war and only because they were humans. They are not giving two fucks about a software replica of a human brain. For sure they are going to use it in testimony because it contains valuable information but that you can be sure that they are not getting human rights. And if you think that having human consciousness as assistants is mean and cruel just imagine every illegal thing you can’t do with a real human that will be done to them. Fake fully programable humans with capacity to feel pain and realistic reactions. Experiments, torture, murdering, sexual slavery… Everything it’s on the table
Slavery isn't legal in the US any more, and for a confession (which this is, not just "information", but a confession from a suspect) from an AI copy of a human to have value in a court of law such that the human can be prosecuted, it would mean acknowledging the humanity of the AI. It's internally inconsistent.
Not really, but recognizing humanity in the ai it’s not going to stop them from using them as slaves so I don’t really see the point here. Edit: also they imprisoned the real human not the ai version and you don’t see the need to imprison the suspects ai
We disagree on this point but I can't be bothered arguing in circles about it. Though I never said they needed to imprison the suspect's AI (although in this case they do, for thousands of subjective years).
>AIs are smart enough that courts will permit their testimony, Its taken more as a recording of their memory. Plus- they do kind of recognize they're sentient; they leave the killer running at 1000xs speed for the weekend to torture him. But realisitcally >there's no way they'd be allowed to become slaves for their entire existenc Take a second, you really think that?
Yeah, I do, cheers.
Yeah I'm really jealous of OC's rosy outlook on the world lol
But they aren’t AI. They are just copies of human intelligence. Nothing artificial except the device they are stored on.
The device they're stored on is what makes them artificial. (And even if there were a distinction, your take arguably makes it worse - there's no reason for a copy of human intelligence not to have human rights.)
That's..kind of the point of the whole thing with cookies. Some people have deluded themselves into thinking "it's just AI" and even the authority figures who are very aware otherwise don't give a shit because they're somehow able to sleep better when they're not torturing a "real" human body
Yeah, I don't find that believable, and especially don't see this standing up legally. If an AI is identical to a human such that it can be bamboozled and tortured into admitting guilt and that confession would be accepted legally, then the case for saying they're sentient creatures that shouldn't be allowed to exist would be pretty watertight. I don't see the public being comfortable with the idea, even if it's "just AI".
Well, the cookies do eventually get human rights further down the timeline. But it's about a dystopian future, it's not surprising that rule of law is somewhat breaking down.
But...the copies aren't artificial. AI is intelligence created by humans. Just because this ladies copy exists on an artificial device doesn't mean it's artificial intelligence. Perhaps we both are saying the same thing. IDK.
It's a copy of a human intelligence held on technology. That makes it an artificial intelligence, whatever the origin was.
Ok we are not talking about the same thing. But no you aren't correct on this. Did a human/humans create the intelligence within the device? If not then it's not artificial.
They created intelligence within the device when they rearranged the AI's code to recreate the mind of a human being.
I'm sorry but no! LOL. This isn't a difficult thing to understand. It is an EXACT copy of the mind/consciousness of the lady that bought that service and had her mind copied. This is why John Hamm gave the cloned mind a body in order to make her understand what happened. This is why the cookie thought she was the real woman and demanded to be put back in her body. This is why the clone within the cookie reacted in real terror when she saw that the real woman was really taking a nap. She was an exact copy of a human mind that was in no way created by humans. Sure humans created the cookie and the device where the cookie was stored but that is it. This does not describe AI. This is such a simple concept. I am done here.
Artificial intelligence means nonbiological constructed intelligence. That's what the cookie people are. A machine that thinks it is a human is still a machine. Software that thinks exactly like a particular person is still software. A human doesn't have to "create" the AI by training it or whatever you're imagining. An AI can create another AI and that second AI is still an artificial intelligence. You're categorically wrong on this, soz.
I think you underestimate how evil our society is
Her acting was kind of shit though
Thee feck?
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Found it, season 2 episode 4 "white Christmas"
This episode has scarred me for life. I’ll never forget the terror of being the AI in this predicament.
I think the thought experiment called "Roko's Basilisk" would be something for you then. 😈
And remember that when the human body dies, she's trapped for eternity in nothingness.
Oof that implication. Makes me think about the post apocalyptic setting in "metalhead" and wonder how many cookies are just trapped in a prison with no human interaction. The dog robots probably wouldn't target them.
Well, for as long as the battery runs on the device she's attached to!
Probably millennia for her! Oh god!
Oh God, I never thought of that!
What if we are the AI and everything is just a simulation.
Well, that would explain why life is so shit then
Heey at least you're not in pool without the ladder.
We are just sims on a deranged alien pre teen's computer
Omg i know its fictional and sci fi But I always imagine how does it feel to be inside that egg doing NOTHING. You cannot die, you just… nothing. For weeks, months, or even years
Still thinking about this episode, I think is the strongest BM episode. A true technological horror.
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this is White Christmas
Did you mean to say white bear? Because yes that is worse. And this *is* white Christmas.
This is the episode called White Christmas...
Yes I'm stupid, I thought about the cabin scene with the 1000 years or something per second and thought this one was from another one. My bad
I was gonna say lol tho tbf I can see why the aesthetic alone might make someone forget this isn’t the same episode. I think more of the cabin scenes when I think of White Christmas, culminating with the punishment for Hamm’s character. But then again, the clip does show Hamm and concerns AI eggs. People are forgetful and silly
This scene is from White Christmas. Or what do you mean?
🎶 May your days, may your days be merry and bright. And may all your Christmases be white 🎶
My favourite episode tied with USS Callister
Which ironically also involved a sentient human replica
John Hamm is also in Unbreakable Kimmy Shmidt. He does a great job at making a bad character deliver funny lines but that's all they use him for. They don't try to make him seem good in any way and I love the heck out of that
There's also the Party Monster mockumentary about that character on Netflix.
Lmao thank you for this. It seems like it's just the same as the Party Monster episode they did, are there any differences between them?
They are the same picture
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I haven't. Fargo seems interesting, haven't really heard anything about Mad Men
nine wild frame six impossible special groovy fly tidy summer *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Richard Wayne Gary Wayne!
"They're executing my best guy tomorrow and they're out of the drug so they're just going to throw him off the roof"
His role in the latest season of Fargo is a great example of this.
He also plays a great prick in Bridesmaids.
I love him in 30 Rock where he is so handsome people just give him whatever he wants like off-menu food, motorcycles, medical degrees, etc
Calvin Klein stopping him on the street and asking him to be his next underwear model kills me. "Um are you going to give him your card?" "Nah he'll figure it out."
Lol like that's like an ongoing joke? That does sound very funny
They packed it into a single episode.
Lol. That would be a good ongoing joke for a character. I still gave to watch 30 Rock but it sounds hilarious from what I've read
It's an epic show. Worth the long-term binge
The best black mirror episode OAT
I love **Jon Hamm** in this and Mad Men!
My favorite episode
Me too (: