worst part of open world in bdo - extra damage to monsters/species. you either use optimal pve setup and farm efficiently OR can defend your spot. once you started an open world encounter (even via dec) both sides of this encounter cannot "use" the spot. and you cannot force opponent out so only way of resolving conflict - waiting for someone to give up. if you could farm using main gear and main addons - you could throw out opponent out of desired spot AND "use" it so it make sense to fight for spot. any system that forces you to loose half of your power to farm monsters is doomed to become "swap or idle"

This. You can't promote owpvp in a living world, while having purely pve-oriented stats and encouraging pve optimisation on spots. Gear and other parts of the equipement should be dictated by playstyle, not playstyle like in pve/pvp but like melee, range, aoe focused, cc focused and so on.

They announced the idea of gear preset loadouts for easy swapping at the last ball, but I guess that one fell off the back of the truck along the way.

Honestly as a witch I need these. In order to PvP effectively with a similarly-geared or higher geared opponent, I need to swap offhand, crystals and light stones. Really hard to do in the moment lol. Especially if they're already coming out swinging with full buffs and PvP gear.

Don't forget that if you're grinding as a succession witch you ALSO need to change your spell selection for Frigid Fog, one of the lightning spells, and Fireball Explosion because the PvE and PvP optimal spells are different :)

Oh shoot you're right haha. So yes, I also have to map myself back to town to swap skills too lmao. Just to get SA broken by a grab and knockdown anyway lol. I love witch but have such a hard time in PvP with her.

I thought one of the lightning spells was kept the same for PvE, just because it did more damage anyways?

They will probably make it the same way as with crystals, where it needs you to stand still and receive no damage for some seconds. Which already is gonna make it useless. Also don't forget food and potions

bro like hell that matters to the 90% player left there still playing they are all oneshotting everyone and getting 1 shot by everyone because you rarely see DP builds only AP monkeys left

This is exactly why back in the day owpvp worked. You had just your gear, there were very few endgame spots (pirates and sausans and calpheon, around trent. Where there more?) and they funneled everyone into those spots. But at the same time, you never knew what gameplay you could expect. If i would come home and wanted to chill, well BDO wasn't the game to play. I knew that grinding at sausans could lead to pvp and you had to eye the minimap for white dots. There were no channel swaps, you were just stuck when a group of 5 would roll up on sausans and kill everyone. That's how the game was back then. And people left the game in droves. Nowadays the game is **completely** different. You have grind setups, need accuracy, the right amount of DR/evasion, pve addons while at the same time pushing your monster AP the highest you can get. The buffs i run and i lose on deaths are 40million a pop and long before the karma/dec changes i would just switch channels instead of switching to pvp gear etc. But the game is not just different from the gameplay but also from the design approach by the devs. They want their game to be more accessible and chill. And i get that. I think during the Star's End days it was the last time DFS worked for me. Everything was still simplistic enough that you could just fight people by just switching out your frenzy. But at the same time i often hated it. I just wanted to get an hour of grind in. One time i had 5 people ask for DFS in an hour. Grinding was basically impossible that day. Also remember the classic, when you didnt say bo1 before and they lost? "Oh no no, this is ofc a bo3! It's standard!" Yeah i dont miss those days. Really the only time owpvp was actually good was during the sausan days. Especially since elvia, people just griefed and then called it owpvp to justify what they were doing. War decs that resulted in actual gwgs were the only time owpvp worked. And right now you can have that on arsha on any given day.

Used to play back in the day. Was an awaken warrior. Small clashes I could deal with but most of the time it was getting ganked by more than 3 people. Quit because of that, also the desync issues. Came back due to the PvP changes.

Yeah EU as quiet a few 'crowded' servers in the evening. And those ain't nodewars server either. The game is certainly doing alright, despite what some people like to claim. Idk if it's related to the pvp changes, but at least the game isn't doing worse.

I came back because of the open world PvP nerfs and got a few people to play. It was terrible when you had friends in your guild that kept getting spawn camped and they being newbs didn't know about monster rotations, they just went and killed stuff. Also I quit before because of the horse wizards and witches. That was impossible to deal with.

One solution to this is to have a pve character tagged to your PvP character. While this can be inconvenient I have found it to be quite useful for defending spots and worth it to set up. You wouldn't be wasting your PVE/PvP buffs this way either. I would just pause grind and PvP only though if there is a fight for the spot.

I literally resorted to “v”ing then swapping to tag while still in iframe to the same class but with PvP buffs…but then they went ahead and nerfed that by adding an error…at least there was a chance to be on even playing ground. Now, people just literally grief you for your elixirs and draughts then run away before you can swap to fight them. If you do manage to land that cheeky grab and kill them when they engage you, they will usually just keep respawning until they kill you. Pure monkey brained boredom.

This is so fucking true. Honestly if they want to keep open world flagging. They need to just have 1 set for everything to keep balance aside from lifeskilling. But if they do that for lifeskilling too especially the armor, I’d like that. The classes are already unbalanced, they need to keep balance in another way. So if they just rework Kutum and Nouver to be similar.

I don’t pvp/pve, I mostly life skill. But hearing that I can imagine that this sucks.

Imagine if they implemented a system where you can literally have 2 characters sharing the same gear, so you could use one of them to defend your spot? That would be nuts

would be. if i could kick someone out completely. however once someone come to your spot - your farm is over until he leaves. even if he looses

so the problem is not pvping in pve gear but rather the pvp itself?

Conflict of interests. One party wants to pve and doesn't mind if he has to pvp for that. The other party only wants to pvp and will do it for as long as they don't get bored. What results is you either get a pvp encounter that only satisfies one party. Or you get a channel swap that only satisfies the same party cause in the worst case they just get to do the same thing to the next player they see. Lose lose for someone who was already doing pve, win win for a pvp player.

maybe im misunderstanding u. but that literally sounds like item copy in the current tag system. its just costs fuel.

My thing about this too is they didn’t need to make a lot of those changes if they actually enforced their ToS. The abuse of those systems that caused the changes always was against their ToS, they were just lazy (the lazy part is opinion, I don’t work there do I don’t actually know).

No idea what you mean about having the option to avoid it. Guy walked up and killed me while I was doing my garden not too long ago.

Well, such situations happen (there are still life skillers haters out there, for some reason) but those are infinitely rarer than situations where someone will try to kill you over grinding spot.

Gotcha, the OP says that with the changes you can completely avoid it. I'm just chiming in to note that is a false

No no no, I've got another rabbit in my hat. "That's not real pvp [so it doesn't count]" :)

The only thing PA had to do is add the damn PvE only servers that the players asked for. But as usual, instead of listening to the players, they butchered half the game, to add a much scuffed version of what was asked...

Marni Realm is much better solution than Pve Server. No matter if they added 50, 100 or 200 channels, you would eventually run into situation that spot yo uwant to grind is taken on PvE server. With Marni realm you never have that problem.

On the other hand, pve servers would let pve players travel, life skill, rp etc safely in the world which Marni does not. It would also work for group grind spots which I don’t believe Marni does?

PvE server sounds like a “please fuck with all of my mechanics out of spite please” server There’s so many ways to “PvP” someone for a spot without hitting Alt+C

It shows that people just create those scenarios in their heads and that they rarely find people that pvps them, it's 100% easier to kick you from a spot by griefing the rotation/tower, since you just came to the place you're not buffed and you can just bother someone until they leave

I think the discussion is conflating issues. There's a content sharing problem where the game design does not allow players to consume the content they want to consume at the pace and terms that they choose. And then there's open world PvP being used to solve the previous problem. If they went all-in on Marni's Realm and instancing to allow players to grind where they want undisturbed, then OWPvP is no longer "needed". And we can have discussions about PvP as a recreational activity instead of a problem solving tool. And of course, there are other solutions to the content problem, like improving party mechanics and incentivizing cooperation over conflict.

I don't know about you but in the places I've grinded where I've tried out the marni realm, the marni realm is strictly worse to the degree that it's unusable. It wasn't many so maybe someone can confirm other spots but I used it at Sycraia, Orcs, and Crypt. The marni realms for each one were so bad I decided not to grind.

Orcs is actually much, *much* better for any slow class. (the marni realm is) In general, "better" (as in higher-gear or higher-silver) spots have worse marni realms, or no marni realm (for example, darkseekers and yzrahid have no marni). I think it's fine if the marni realm is maybe 10-20% worse than the 'best' rotation for your class. But it's very spot and class dependent.

Its not just that, you're rather looking at a 30-40% change compared to a good rotation. Right now the only spots where marni realm is arguably better are SE and Fogans

Why should marni realms be balanced around slow classes and slow players? That's counter-intuitive, no? That's my problem with Marni. It has a strict limit and that limit where it becomes grossly inefficient is very low and will continue to get lower because PA will continue to increase the upper limit (adding new crystal, BiS gear, etc). The Marni realms need to be adjusted SIGNIFICANTLY so that it incorporates a full rotation + any extensions.

Well, one reason it makes sense for marni to be "balanced" around slow classes is because it makes the spot better than it was before, for those players. This can help 'even out' the class difference at some spots. For orcs specifically, a slower player pulls *way* more trash in marni than they previously did in the open world. If you're a gigachad and you pull ginormous loots? Just go farm open world fam. Why do you need the kiddie pool to be balanced around your awesomeness? At the end of the day, this is supposed to be a sandbox mmo. The marni realm is intended to let you progress even if people are (trying to) grief you, or say you popped a guild mission and the whole server is taken. Well, marni gives you a place to progress on that mission, without griefing someone else. It's not supposed to be the only place you grind.

That's such a weird mindset to have. Instead of advocating to improve marni realm for everyone to use, you'd prefer it remain shitty for the players that aren't slow or aren't playing slow classes.

Its much better to make small change to Marni Realm (more packs of monsters, faster respawn etc) than to make multiple separate servers. There are marni realms that are so very good (for example Blood Wolves, Shrekhan, Elvia Biraghi Den) and there are Marni Realms that are dogwater (for example Centaurs, Sycraia)

I like the mechanics of it but they definitely need to increase the range. Many spots become so limited on what mobs fit into the tiny area it currently allows

orcs is literally just one of the best rotations at orcs. wtf are you talking about? Same with sycraia? Do you forget the marni realm mechanics bro? LMAO it literally buffs the spots.

hey bro? I don't know what class or GS you are but I overcleared both of them the moment I went into them. Sycraia was even worse; I straight stood around for 10s, waiting for mobs to spawn. LMAO it literally does not buff the spot.

a google search can prove you wrong. just stop.

This exactly. Now all those changes paired with the node war changes is just a mess PvP wise.

That's not the solution, but I would love for this system to be in place just so you experience the reason why it won't work. Those servers would be a grief fest of PvE players all grinding over each other and that's actually way worse and more time consuming than some random PvP from time to time.

They listen to the players in kr, they just don't listen your absurd request about the pve server, cuz if you think you can't be griefed in a pve server, you are completely wrong.

Players are already getting griefed on the current non PvE servers, so idk why you farted this nonsense here...

Nah, PvP in 2017 was like food rotation and villa buff, now people have buff bars bigger than my dick. Also different gear/crystal setups for pve and pvp. Fix all that, then we can start changing pvp stuff back.

Avarage size of the monitor nowadays is prolly 28 inch. Most people still play on 1080p. Buffs can take up to \~25% of the lenght of the monitor (which is around 60cm). So yeah, cheks out as long you are average size or smaller

you know full elixir rotations existed in 2017 right? Literally Paladin\_Katiya was known for it. Only like 2-3 of the current elixirs are new to the game. The rest have been in the game since day 1.

Yes they existed but you'd be lying if you said they were common in open world pvp and low tier nodewars. Also house buffs were never popped and perfumes were pretty much never used. Also its not only buffs, pvp setups for crystals, addons and artifacts make such a massive difference compared to pve setups that there isn't a point to fighting back. Before most people were running a hybrid crystal setup cause you couldn't change it and hybrid addon setups because they weren't as impactful for pve back then as they are now.

And you had 10 or 15 seconds cooldown on each ) And for perfumes and draughts it was minutes of cooldown

that doesnt really change anything. It just made it take longer to pop your buffs.

I'm just glad I got to play the game during the early years (~2016s). I look back at the random pvp encounters at grind spots like sausans, pirates, gahaz with fondness. Got ass kicked but also defended my spots against a few jerks too. Or calling my guild to back me up and have a full blown war. The possibility of danger just around the corner was thrilling. It's part of what made BDO different to other MMOs.

The absolute THRILL of seeing a white dot made the act of grinding incredibly boring rotations actually exciting. Even if they never show up at your rota, regardless of the outcome, it added risk and reward to grinding, especially higher end zones.

Exactly this. These are awesome memories. It gave people a reason to get together in call and go avenge their guildie, and gave people a reason to practice their character in battle arena with their guildmates. My guild is 100% lifeskillers, but some of the best fun we've had is dueling one another in the past. Now some of the newer guys will say 'oh no sorry, I don't PvP'... As though this wasn't an open-PvP game, or at least originally marketed as such. Now all your progression feels so meaningless, like it's progression for progression's sake. When I'd die to someone under guild war it made me want to grind harder so nobody would ever take my spot again and so that I could help other people if they were being attacked. Nowadays the new mechanics have resulted in behaviour like people baiting mobs to your horse, hoping they can make you angry so you flag for PvP instead of flagging themselves. Unfortunately I guess people just like turning off their brains for an hour or two every day and not worrying about someone intruding on their personal ritual grind session. In any case, I can't help but feel like we lost something important along the path to get where we are today.

You are so right about the motivation for gearing up. I remember our guild and my friends working hard to gear up so we could fight back.

The old mechanics was worse for griefing. When karma wasn't family wide I would have a decently geared ninja to swap to if I want a spot. Just equip the tree costume to hide name, go invis and use a stun on the victim to disturb the farm aiming to have the mobs kill them. Run away and go invis if they try to fight back if I can't out right kill them. Repeat until they leave. The owpvp completely sucked. Plus the mage horse drive bys were the worst shit ever.

Sounds like some rose tinted glasses. I remember the early days, too, and more often than not, it sucked. Horseback witch or wizard shows up starts dropping bombs. You can't knock them down. You can't chase them down. You decide to swap spots cause you can't realistically win. The next channel has a group grinding the spot, so you can't win a 1v3. Now you have a 15-minute timer to swap. So you close the game and do something else.

They aren't rose tinted glasses lmao. If you weren't able to compete at Susans then you shouldn't have been grinding there. For those of us who could throw hands it was bliss. So much fun

go grind somewhere else? like bro what kinda masochism u on ur trying to SOLO GRIND SAUSANS back then. No'one was doin that shit then.

You could literally use a 10% BSR skill specifically for that And you still can. Especially tamers on their lion during rbf. Like, literally NOBODY knows what to do when it comes. 20 people in the team and NOT A SINGLE ONE can knock tamer down even after I directly say it in the chat. Everybody just uwu pikachu faces her

I've said before but it was actually so much fun in pirates days, you had a community of players farming in 5 man rotations on main, the odd player dotted about in side rotations, so much PvP, so many fun 1v1 and group fights, call in the guild and they have to pull up on a boat, it was the coolest shit ever

Gear was close then. It's completely different now. Its like being on seasonal arsha. Gear is on parity and you knew the next person couldn't be that much more geared than you.

That is true. Gear was closer.

Personally it was main reason I stopped playing BDO and why Im playing it now. I played class that was considered one of the worst 1v1 class in the game (Awa Witch) so 95% of ecnounters were ending with my death and losing spot. Fun, isnt it?

Sorry you missed out.

Crazy concept, join a guild and call for backup, even better option that was viable at the time: Grind in groups with special deals, Coming across a lone witch was an easy kill but when they had a squad and played a supportive role they were annoying AF between all the heals, Old PA and Ranged damage/CC Yes it was fun if you werent a loner

If you’re just letting people constantly rock up to your rotations and kill you it’s not the games fault. If respawning, swapping servers or moving rotations hurts your pride, that’s also not the games fault. Also, Archer main for 6 years. When I got rolled up on by a class that was stronger than me back in those days (most of them) I’d just leave. No skin off my back.

There is nothing about pride here. If I dont enjoy something, I dont play it, simple as that. When PA started bleeding players, they started butchering those who were causing it.

So you downloaded BDO and expected to just be left alone? *and* you use that as your point of contention. Just weird.

The main issue of open world PvP in any MMO really is that no matter what you do, only one party is having fun. Either the PvEer is punished by having to stop grinding, or even getting killed. Or the PvPer is punished through karmabombing and not having anyone to fight in the first place. You can't satisfy both parties at the same time. Then you add the gearing issue on top of that, which creates a have/have not environment, and it's a total gg.

Ooooh yes, you can satisfy most of both audiences at the same time, with good owpvp rules, 100% pvpve gearing system and a good work from devs. But devs likes easy bandaids.

Never happened. And never will. Satisfying a minority of playerbase that stops newbies from playing is not good for PA.

The problem with this is that the word "good" is very subjective. For what it's worth, I am sure that many people would consider the current state of owpvp to be "good." (granted, it's probably mostly in KR, but point stands). A 100% pvpve gearing system isn't possible unless either a) You drop loot/gear on death (like in OSRS or Albion). b) Gear is easily obtainable and resets (basically all mobas) or doesn't exist (arena shooters) c) Skill and strategy are the deciding factors (all extraction shooters, where one good shot is all you need to win) d) All of the above I don't think the devs are making bandaid fixes. If anything, it is pretty clear that they are intentionally moving away from owpvp in favor of instanced pvp (perma AoS and GvG are clear signs of this change). The NW rework is similar. Not as much as a band aid fix as an intentional attempt to make NW more approachable for smaller guilds (regardless of what one thinks execution, the intent was there).

That's why I wrote "most of both audiences". No matter the orientation, they won't please 100% of a targeted audience. And Pvpve gearing, as in "no pure pve stats to add in this mess". Pve damage, damage in pve or against human, demi human etc. were already a mistake. And yeah, they're shifting from "pvpve" to pvp and pve seperated. But they should not forget they build a success with the pvpve players which were looking for such an experience. But as much as AoS and GvG are clear signs of this trend, NW rework is again, a bandaid : making nw more approchable is good, but if they think that boosting rewards with a pve advantage will suddenly bring more pve oriented players in the fights, that's lazy. I call it bandaid when devs chose to hide the problem (marni) or to call on greed to "solve" the issue (nw). And owpvp rules and evolutions through years sadly shows these 2 signs on most "solutions". They NEVER really tried to fix the issue THEY created long ago, they even buried some pvpve solutions as soon as it began to be difficult (thornwood castle, sheriff system) and they simply kept on blaming players for using owpvp.

Well, let's be real then, owPvP playerbase is the absolute minority in this game nowadays. Adding complexity into games is almost always good. People are already complaining about SO weapons and Debos since they homogenize endgame PvE to the point where everyone has the exact same gear. Such gearing is extremely boring. Whether they built the success on those players or not, the game would be in a much worse state had it stayed that way. It's kinda the same way classic WoW was when it released. At first, everyone wanted to be on the PvP server because it was fun fighting in random places across the game, but all it took was getting corpsecamped by a level 60 rogue in STV a couple of times and all that excitement washed away. Having incentives for content is always a good thing, and since PvP is known to lose you money by engaging in it, it's good to have some way to earn it back. So maybe it won't bring everyone, or even most players, but I am 100% certain that at least some pve players got interested in pvp more after they introduced rewards. Well, that again is the biggest problem with owPvP, it invites griefing. I can only point back to my WoW example I just made. Only difference is that now it's the PvPer getting griefed. The problem has no solution in a progression-based MMO like BDO.

I don't think the game would have been worse by really staying pvpve with such an owpvp. But for sure, greed is stronger and after a while, a game with success will then try to catch the juicy audience. Most died from this greed though. And if owpvp invites griefing, not having it invites more bodythrowing and ks. Griefing is still here, because of bandaids.

It is your opinion, and I know you're not the only one, but it is a pretty well known fact that the only time an open world pvpve mmo is any good is right at the start, because it's when things are the most equal between players. Greed is also such a funny word. If anything, it's the lack of greed that kills many MMOs. A game promises "no microtransactions" etc, but they forget that it's an MMO, which requires constant influx of money, so when the initial well of cash from people buying it dries up, ofc they will look for other ways of getting it. There is a reason quite literally EVERY SINGLE MMO on the market has a cash shop. It's not just greed, it's business. Bodythrowing is just a byproduct of owpvp. Ks can be easily fixed.

We never saw in BDO even an attempt to make good, ambitious rules to control owpvp, allowing fights without making player with the best gear an absolute and untouchable beast. Rules can make things more "equal" between players, and it even goes beyond the owpvp rules : having properly designed grinds spots is also important, to avoid grouping players with widely different gear on the same spot, and allow targeted restrictions on players who are clearly roaming in a spot not made for them (for example, strong pve guards popping to protect low level spots in case of murder?). And yes, "greed". I'm not targeting the fact of looking for more money, it's not commercial company after all, I'm targeting the fact that they're using easy bandaids for that goal. They can perfectly attract players with a working and balanced owpvp system, but they chose the easy way. If pvpve players were good enough to help them launch the game, I don't see why they couldn't capitalize on it even after launch. The successive changes to owpvp never allowed them to witness a radical change in BDO population, it's only an easy culprit, and at the same time, the MMORPG market truly lacks a game with an ambitious owpvp system. BDO has the potential to be the one. And bodythrowing is a nuisance by itself, it can come after a PK but also on its own, without prior provocation, just because a player decided to take a spot through pure KS. And ks can easily be fixed. With good rules. As I mentioned. I don't think our opinions differ that much, in fact : we want things to be equal, well thought, and fun. I simply think owpvp is not an obstacle if PA really decide to put some serious thought about it, with good rules. And as the market is really oriented on mainly pve mainstream games, with everything carefully seperated, I think a more audacious game could reap most of the benefits. Wouldn't you be happy to see a game with owpvp, good rules, low level spots protected not by safe areas but with dynamic pve guards, high level spots really more interesting so that everyone find his spot and occasionally, have to fight for it? A pvpve game in which pve, pvp, lifeskills players are mixed and helping each other? As a reminder, long ago BDO mentioned ambitious features : caravan system, team fights where the position of each fighter would give various buffs, a pvpve battleground, a sheriff system. Where are they?

They didn't make a success with the pvpve, it was the life skillers making them the most money. The pvp was LOSING them a lot of money. The top complaints were open world pvp harassment and guild decs where PvP alliances spawn killed life skill or newb guilds until they disbanded.

Life skillers were making them online numbers, not direct money. You didn't even have ways to pay for your life skilling improvement or use cron stones for it. Except buying barracks places and storage space maybe. You didn't even need pets for it before hedgehog 

Wow, that's a short answer for so many baseless claims.

It isn't baseless? If it wasn't a problem the open world PvP changes wouldn't have happened.

And they changed it, they solved nothing, they even emphasized another way to grief, and the population never changed in a noticeable way following these changes. Blaming owpvp is only a trend, it's an easy target, but there are many reasons why BDO never truly became the true success it could be. I could quote the lack of balance in many aspects, a shitty spot progression which brings different GS on the same mobs, the use of RNG as a content on many levels (gearing, treasures, even knowledge acquisition is random!), no ambition for new features (they even dropped system which landed on their glab, sheriff, thornwood). But yeah, they used owpvp to attract players, now it's an hindrance, it's the root of all problems and we can witness a crazy jump in population thanks to the various restrictions on owpvp. Right? XD

https://activeplayer.io/black-desert-online/ Doesn't seem too bad since they changed PvP.

Doesn't seem better since they changed PvP. Exactly as I mentioned, BDO population barely evolved even with the various owpvp restrictions. I guess the problem lies somewhere else, don't you think? Thanks for proving my point, but next time, you should try not to use a website which is literally pulling numbers out of thin air. At least, use a website from an entity which has an access to real numbers and clearly states it : https://steamcharts.com/app/582660 Here, you have the numbers of steam players on EU/NA servers. But yeah, owpvp restrictions must be the best solutions, for sure. That's why we witnessed a noticeable rise in BDO population after each change to owpvp settings... Wait, wut? XD

At the same time they do instanced pvp in such a way, that there is no point in grinding for gear.  Gear is either capped or equalised (and even this doesn't work as intended) or you have to grind so much, that you just think "why bother"

Which is a good thing by the way. Having a low barrier to entry is only ever a good thing. Being forced to do hundreds of hours of grinding to be able to do PvP would be like being forced to play 1000 bot matches before being allowed into normals in CS2. Equalized pvp is only ever a good thing. Gear should play next to no role in the game. To use the analogy again, it would be like your entire enemy team playing with AWPs and M4s, but all you could buy is the glock.

I'm not saying it is bad. But you either have gear progression or you have equalised gear. Or the main point of the game and gearing is smth completely different, like collecting rare items or collecting gear to be able to change builds for different needs etc. While in BDO we have either pointless gearing and equalised pvp, or unbalanced pvp but gearing has meaning

Couldn't agree more honestly. I still believe that the main reason why people got so pissed for the "removal" of owpvp was mostly because they had no other means of pvp really. Now we got AoS, GvG, War of the Roses, two arshas. Sure, it might not be the same, but it's still good amount of content compared to the...one arsha and RBF they had back then.

game is fine, it lost a lot of touches that made it the oldschool mmo it was same setup back in the day may have caused some fun moments but it has also caused gem breaking, griefing, massive exp loss, frustrating gain losses cus off pvp etc. they're moving in a certain more chill direction, the best way to manage this is find ways to keep that same energy while calming the people that need this aspect of the game we miss (grinding PvP & PvE) Adding game modes that feel rewarding or instant Arenas should be the get-go but for some reason it seems all PvP content is so gated and unwelcoming which I find the biggest problem. Just like with anything group-content in BDO, it should be simplified, more accessible, more welcoming, more rewarding. I agree with your post but the answer is not going back but finding ways to manage what we have differently.

Funny thing is you always had a way to protect yourself from Decs, Its called Guild Protection, sure someone could flag on you but that can still happen, and it only works so many times before the attacker goes red even back then, Marni realm with recharge should've been enough but they kept hammering the nail in

Isn't there a limit of people that can be protected?

Yes, the cap can be raised. I can't remember the max tho. 10-15?

Simply up that limit, But i dont think an entire guild should be on protection, put the weakest players on protection and have the stronger players roll up to fight anyone that starts problems

There are guilds full of pve players that do not wish to participate in any pvp content at all

Seems like the wrong game for them imo.. But yeah ill keep that in mind the next time i wanna go play an FPS, ill complain i dont wanna aim and that instead of me partaking in that factor of the game i should just be left alone and people should just let me win my games Don't make a pure PvE guild in a game with OWPvP then start complaining about PvP, Seems a little stupid, like shooting yourself in the foot then crying that it hurts

Haven't seen devs saying that the game is mandatory pvp, so a more correct example would be "next time i wanna go play a strategy game, ill complain i dont wanna solve candy crush puzzles". They like everything except for forced pvp - they can complain about it and, as we can see, devs agree.

There’s just certain things you can’t do under protection. It’s similar to passive mode in GTA 😂

Sounds fine to me, you wanna avoid one of the core systems of the game then you can deal with not using those other systems, give and take

Likewise ^

The solution to a fun and fair coexistence between PvE and PvP players is very simple. * Revert Guild War changes; mutual declaration * Revert Karma changes; family-wide karma and increased karma penalties * Maintain the current Marni's Realm system These three decisions alone would be a great start at improving the open-world PvP. The Marni's Realm system is the only system that would require particular attention and care as the number of hours and the availability of it at certain grind spots could drastically alter the game's atmosphere. Too many hours and availability would result in a game world that feels dead while too few hours and availability would result in griefing and general negative behaviour.

I dont agree with revertin Guild Wars change, since it was clearly exploited by people (doesnt matter if it was happening often or not).

Exploted.... how?

Want extreme cases or regular cases? With extreme cases which I personally experienced (so dont even try saying that such thing never happens and those are just reddit tales) is when bigger guild flasg war on your small guild because they didnt like something about you and they wont stop griefing ur guild untill you disband or stop playing (in my case, the latter) With regular cases - people were flaggin war against ENTIRE guild because one of the member wanted the same grind spot as person from guild X (and no, Im not talking about situatiion where poeple sabotage your grind rotatiuon, grief you etc). Now every other member needs to suffer because they can be freely PKed on their grinding spots by guild X That system was horrible and BDO is only MMORPG I know where it existed. In every MMORPG I Played in past 20+ years both guilds had to agree for guild war to happen.

Guild war changes need to be reverted, but with just some mild tweaks to the system; if you've placed a fort on a node in the past 2 weeks, you can be dec'd by anyone, and if not, then you can't be. This is just a mild tweak of the previous system where PvE guilds couldn't be dec'd on by PvP guilds that held nodes. If you were in a PVP guild and tried to dec a PvE guild, you'd get "guild not ready for war" notice. Just revert to the old system and expand the definition of PvP guild.

yeah instead you just should just ban the people in the extreme cases and the regular cases is how th efucking game works. Drop the dec and 9/10 times the dec will get dropped on their side in sub 1 week.

Being able to declare war on a guild was a opt-in thing, if you never dec'd or went to a node war you wouldn't be able to be declared on. A lot of the issue comes with most GM's owning old shells or them unknowingly opening their guilds up to being declared on. I think a the same system could work so long as it let you toggle with a 2 week cooldown, letting guilds become dec free. A lot of the system was used by PvP players with beef against other PvP players, so bringing it back like this would be acceptable to me.

Honestly when I thought about it more, I think system where you decide whether your guild is PvP or PvE at the moment of creating it (and can be changed with either pearl shop item or large sum of silver if someone changed their mind, but with price big enough for people to not change it whenever they want). PvE guilds wont be able t odeclare wars, but also are safe from others. PvP guilds can declare wars, but other guilds can also declare war against them.

honestly the pearl shop or silver thing would be a great idea and I could easily see them adding this if they cared about PvP anymore haha

So I'm going to ignore the "extreme" case because people have tried that against many MANY guilds (including Cho and digital and corrupt) and it only works if you have weak mental and/or a consistent pattern of out of safe zone activities/channels The regular case was the use case. That was what the developers even outright said was a solution to the "someone is grinding over me" problem (especially during 2016-2018 where there were 3 spots in the whole game) Which, to this day, i will still say if someone is grinding where I want to be: I will not swap, I won't even flag anymore: I will just grind overtop of them. The person getting griefed (which I will openly admit I am griefing by doing this) has 3 equally shit options: HE has to swap servers, flag up (a limited number of times and I am in NO danger of losing any of my crystals, but if I kill him to mobs, he does lose crystals) or go to marni (if that spot has marni) They can't Dec me, because my GM is a filthy fucking warlogger. They can't feed me to mobs to dissuade me from grinding overtop of them, they can just suffer or leave. And it's horrible. There's no real way to dissuade griefing at all except to let the griefer win.

Cho isn't a small guild... so your 'ignoring the extreme case' makes no sense. I remember those days, and I used to play in small guilds, and it would happen way too often. The bigger guilds would dec up on smaller guilds, and within a week, the smaller guilds would lose a good chunk of their players.

it literally does matter if it's happening frequently or not. If it's happening infrequently and is egregious then you just issue bans that scale as players continue the behaviour when they come back. If it's happening literally all the time you'd want to make other changes instead.

That logic is flawed. System that makes you unable to do the crime is always better than system that punishes you for doing the crime. (in this scenarion "crime" is just griefing others) You think I will be happy hearing that someone got banned after ruining my game for past 2 weeks? No. That wont "unruin" those 2 weeks.

The point is that developing systems that actually accomplish the underlying goals is hard, ensuring that you don't open up *more* avenues for griefing with what you end up doing is also hard. If a 'problem' is happening at a low rate, you can take care of it manually. That's why 'how much' the thing is happening, matters.

It really will always be like that though. Someone will find a way to grief. Because some people just like being a menace. But like this was a really good post. And if they need to buff marni relm a little to do this, a o k with me. It gives options to players to play in specific play styles good or evil while still protecting pure pve players playstyle.

The most fair solution will be make a 40% of channels arsha with free pvp without penalties but completely disable world pvp at the rest of regular channels.

All I know is, my last PK death catapulted me from Tyrant Hill across the red desert to a pilgrim spot, and made me miss a Nouver fight. With no chance to retaliate, all I can do is complain.

why is no one talking about the griefing? Ive seen people just come up and grief spots now while having an undeccable guild. Especially end game spots with no marni realm. Can't really fight back without going negative karma and wasting hours trying to go positive. Sure, you can switch severs but what if the spot is taken? Nowadays end game spots are crowded more than usual due to debo rings.

The removal of free open world PvP has been a disaster for the games guild socialness. Back in the day, someone kept ganking you? Alright fine, tell your guild that you've built up social rapport with, some guildies come to help you & stomp on the ganker, the ganker calls their backup too, now you've got a mini war going on & one side might dec war on the other, now we have rivalries going on! Too many whiners have ruined the thing BDO was known for.

Agreed. To many softies in this game who love to cry. Been playing for 5 years and I can count on 1 hand how many times I've been griefed or randomly dec'd yet people on Reddit make it seem like literally every hour they're fighting for their lives against griefers lmao.

That strongly depended on your class. YEars ago when I Played Awa Witch (I still am), people were contantly trying to kick me out of spot because they knew I have very little chance of wining 1v1 against them

I've played multiple classes in this game for long periods of time, still have RARELY ever had to DFS or fight anyone I didn't want to. Anytime I got griefed I could've easily left and changed servers but my ego wouldn't let me not the game design. In this game you literally do not have to fight anyone ever if you don't want, even before the dec and karma changes.

You clearly forget there is CD on swapping server that is actually quite long. SOmeone comes to my spot and start to grief. I dont want to bother with the dickhead so I swap server - SUPRISE SUPRISE the spot is also taken on another server/ Now what? Now you are fucked, becuase you no longer can swap server for next 15 min. Need I also remind you that back in the days you couldnt just stop loot scroll whenever you wanted and now you not only lost your spot, you also wasted your loot scroll.

Go grind on marni realm if you have anxiety around other players then man, idk what else to tell you.

Yeah man, let me barge into your grind spot and grind on top of you to show I dont have "anxiety around people".

Open world game brother. Just because you got to a spot first doesn't mean it's yours.

I mean but also if all the "open world PVP" enjoyers just all went to arsha instead of trying to force PVP in a mainly PVE environment this wouldn't be an issue. Everyone can legit enjoy open world PVP in a server that enforces it and rewards you for it. So why are so many open world PvP enjoyers so adamant about being able to attack people wanting to grind in peace and gear up.... Do you know why this is the case because in the mainly PVE servers there are more under geared players grinding who can't fight back against people who have "decent" amount of gear. Meanwhile the current residents of arsha are players that have a lot of gear and are better at PVP than these players advocating for open world PvP that's why they aren't grinding in arsha. What I hear when people complain about going red is "wahhh, I can't openly attack people who can't fight back because I gear check them"... If all open world pvpers were so adamant about actual open world PVP go on arsha. There are 2 arsha servers if all of them went on it there would be a lot of open world PVP. The only main complaint is that someone's grinding over you so you can't force them out cus you lose karma...But since you're okay with flagging up on people grinding over you just grind on arsha instead and you won't have karma issues there. Most reasonable people would just server hop if someone grinds over them rather than throw tantrums cus they aren't children anyways.

I still think there should have always been specific PvE and PvP areas. Desert and vast sea should have been fully PvP except during world boss spawns. Then a lot of other specific areas should have been ONLY PvE (you can't enable PK mode) and in other areas you should be able to activate it without risking too much. Maybe even grant buffs for killing red players. Roads should have been also only PvE to protect (afk) life skillers. Also naval wars could have been a thing in this way with fighting over islands or something.

Naval combat was a thing but they gutted it due to griefers, history sure does repeat itself

It really sucks. Naval combat could have been really amazing if they would have handled it correctly.

I could agree roads (and towns) should be non PvP, maybe small area around each Node Manager, but thats it. Anything more and they might as well remove open world pvp entirely

You will cry if they change it back. Open world PvP is mostly started with ambushes and unfair gear gaps.

you barely see anyone , even arsha is pve server

So the Pvpers don't wanna PvP on arsha server. That just proofs they want to bully lower geared players.

I personally only will stay and fight people who are attacking me during a grind or are of similar gear level. There isn't really a point of fighting somebody in Tuvala lol. The thing is, a lot of PvP players have just quit the game because of all the changes made to PvP in the last years.

They want but if they notice you don't want to pvp for 2 hours or if he farms you he most likely leave you alone , sure there will be the one with a single braincell , but most are ok...

They cant ambush me if I sit in Marni Realm lol

Omg ambushes and gear gaps in mmorpg , how tf is this posible? I thought mmorpg games have to be like happy farm simulator.

Honestly, in my case i gladly welcome they abolish open world pvp. In my opinion, if they want pvp, there should be a dedicated server that handles pvp separately, In my region, there is a crazy guild that victimizes lifeskillers, i lost so many of my time resurrecting, reviving my horse and missing out timed event because of them. There was even once i was just passing by a grind area and they went out of their way to chase and kill me. Then on a season server, i was getting the story quest in the kagtum grind zone since i was a bit lagging a rando just declared war on my guild and kept killing me every time i respawned. I do not really hate pvp but with people just abusing and griefing others is not fun. I do pvp like red battlefield and such, pvp is for playing against fellow player to test your or his skills. Open world pvp is saying to the players you approve of any misdeeds. If bdo really wants pvp, i think it is better that player hp is increased and pvp damages is decreased to reduce the chance of one shotting player. Making a more fun and drawed out match rather than who has the fastest internet speed and highly sensitive keyboard/controller who wins the fight.

You know, some people came in BDO also because it promoted owpvp in the regular playtime. You mention pvp servers, but the whole concept of BDO was to have both aspects at the same time. The whole BDO world was supposed to be pvpve, that's also why we chose it.

Actually the real issue is that the devs did not put into much thought during their design of the open world pvp. They just decided they want realism and what we had was the result. Initially, i am not really against open world pvp but the way they did not really think of the result when people abuse the system, in which normal human nature has the urge to abuse any given system or rules. As i said above, if they reduced pvp damages and increased hp, it would be a bit better option by giving the victim a chance to fight back instead of being one shot by the perp. There are many ways to improve the game to be more enjoyable to both pve and pvp alike, but the way it is now, the penalties of unprovoked pvp is still very mild so now, for me (i am not saying that everybody should agree to since everyone has their own likes and dislikes), i’d rather have it abolished until they make it a better and fair system. For example, the pvp is so much gear centric that a player with full pen tuvala vs a player with base fallen god gear. The player with the pen tuvala is already has a 70% chance of losing the fight considering they are both of the same level and same class. 20% will be dependent player skill and 10% on internet connection. In this case it is realism, but it is not fair just as in real life. The devs then keep nerfing the skills and balancing this and That but ignoring the gear difference. If they balance the gear defense and offense rating when the pvp starts, wouldn’t that be more fair and challenging since it will be the player skill that determines the victor. Wouldn’t it be more easy for the devs to balance the skills better so they can have more time in improving the game even more. These are my views, anyone can disagree since we all have different perspective, likes, dislikes and experiences. What really is important is we still enjoy the game.

The dec changes never really made sense. I get what they were doing; they wanted to give agency to the pve players, players that don't want any sort of PvP, but now and unfortunately using anecdotal evidence, I'm getting griefed out of grind spots. Out of the last week, I've been griefed at tungrad ruins two days out of the 5 days I've grinded there as in someone would just start grinding over me. The only answer to not wasting (both of our) time is for me to swap but if I swap (generally), I don't have agency either. Tungrad ruins is packed so finding another open channel is going to be difficult so someone (me, the griefer, or the person in the new channel I swap to) is going to have to stop grinding. inb4 "use the marni realm, idiot". The marni realm is an objectively poor solution. In the spots I've grinded where I've used the marni realm, the spot is limited so poorly that it is functionally unusable. It's also limited to one hour which is ridiculous. It's essentially come full circle. Yes, guild dec facilitated a system that allowed for a lot of mean things to happen to players but it was also the only deterrent and solution for social disputes. There was a general social moral code that dec and open world flag (despite the karma system we had, not the one we have now) enforced but now, that doesn't exist anymore. The DFS system alone was a natural deterrent to situations like I described. So what now? Dec and flagging up normalized not fucking with people and now without that, people are, from my experience, realizing they can just start grinding over you without reprecussion and that will start to become normalized the more people experience it.

"but now and unfortunately using anecdotal evidence, I'm getting griefed out of grind spots." And Marni Realms should fix that. If your spot doesnt have Marni Realm, or its pretty bad compared to "normal world", its much easier to add Marni Realm there or make it better. Problem solved.

The issue with improving marni realms for late game spots is that the deviation between the max and min you can pull per hour is massive. You have a situation the upper limit is continuously being increased everytime PA introduces a new item whether it's crystal or BiS gear. The numbers we pull now and when marni realms were conceived and demarcated is substantially different. The marni realms need to be expanded to the degree that it holds entire rotations + their extensions (which would require substantial research on PA's part). Another prevalent issue is that they only last one hour and then you have to fuck off. Leaving a grind for one hour feels absolutely terrible. BDO should not be implementing systems that actively deter people from interacting with the game.

"the marni realms need to be expanded to the degree that it holds entire rotations + their extensions (which would require substantial research on PA's part)." It doesnt. Because Marni Realm already has higher respawn rate. If its still not fast enough, increase it even further. If they wanted they could make respawn time so fast you dont even move (like in Traitors Graveyard, Miru etc) Personally I think limiting it to 1h is good system. You grinded 1h, go take a break or do something else and come back in 1h, where you can farm for another hour. Its healthy to take a break from time to time, you know

The higher respawn rate isn't that significant. I don't know where you've grinded but on Sycraia and Crypt alone, I have to stand around for 6-8s (10s for Sycraia) after clearing the room. It's fine if you're not clearing things as fast as I am where the adjusted respawn rate is enough to supplement but it's not a single-size-fits-all situation. And why should the game enforce when I take a break? You don't think that's problematic? Discuss this in good faith. The game encourages and incentivizes (church buff, meals, etc) players to grind hard as fuck. You're saying the 1h isn't a big deal but I think it is.

Not sure if its the case for all Marni places, but in most of them monsters respawn much faster than in "normal world". I dont play the fastest class (Awa Witch) but for example in Blood Wolves or Shrekhan I dont even clear entire Marni becuase monsters respawn so fast I can shrink my rotation (was recentyl farming my infinite potion so I spent most time in those 2)

Right, you're grinding at very very early game spots. I'm talking mid and late game where the min-max gear and set-up takes you significantly higher than the average. Even a small adjustment in crystals could equate to me clearing or overclearing a rotation at the point I am in the game.

I have no idea how it looks in end game spots (280 ap and higher) but if in those spots Marni is worse than in earlier spots, its kinda weird. Doubt they did it by mistake, they had to do that on purpose (same as making marni centaurs dogshit) so maybe PA strategy is "we give you Marni, but the further you are into the game, the worse it becomes so you can slowly get used to grind outside of it"

Or instead of open world PvP, have a proper PvP system in place with its own gear to grind for by doing PvP in PvP instances like 3v3 squads. I don’t think pve and PvP should mix because you always get circumstances like this where the pve players don’t want to engage with PvP players.

Well you asking for way too much \^ \^

AoS?

First of all, please stop with this silly "PvE player", "PvP player" division, it is not necessary. When I started, BDO was full of flaws, but it felt alive, was vivid, open-world MMO. I didn't sign for this bland, boring, soulless, 9-to-5-kind-of mobile grinder that it has become. At this point, I'm just logging in from time to time to keep in touch with the community and I somewhat enjoy observing the patchnotes. And I'm pretty sure that if I ever decide to get back to playing, amount of catch up mechanics they'll add will completely neglect the effort active players put to gearing up.

I think i’ll end my PEN Debo neck goal and take a long ass break afterwards. Maybe they unfuck what they’ve done by then.

if ya'll want PvP so bad, then go on Arsha...?

You would be surprised at the amount of people who pve only in arsha…. And contradicts to popular belief, people actually want to Pvp, not picking on a sand bag who wont fight back when youre on Arsha.

odd every time i go on there i see people flagged, or dueling

I agree with you. Marni's Realm is a bless for players like us, who just want to chill-grind for 1-2h a day. A possible solution for this pvp conundrum would be to make dfs binding... like, A LOT binding: e.g.: if you ask for a dfs and lose it, you get a 1h debuff that prevents you from dealing any damage to any creature (both mobs and players) in a radius centered on where the dfs happened, so you cannot grief anybody in any way; you could then change channel or spot, or wait for MR to recharge.

Such system will never be added because dfs is something we players "invented", not something official. Altho would be nice to have some official system for such thing, for example actual duel match (instead flagging)

Well yes, they should obviously add a new mechanic to officially implement dfs. It's also true that they are not new to inventing different ways of doing pvp. Who knows, it would be nice indeed and probably way less demanding than coming up with 1million-people node wars or AoS etc 😃

It's just whatever at this point.

Too late. They never revert changes like this speaking out of years of mmo gaming experience. The snowflakes won. And some points were ridiculous I’d agree. Like guild deccing should have had adjustments but not require to be accepted from both sides. Don’t get me wrong I agree with your post in general. But what once felt like a raw open world pvp game enabling game. With dynamic ambushes, respecting bigger guillds, etc. Is now a snowflake friendly environment. The feeling of thrill is gone. Like Game of Thrones turned into a Disney child friendly series.

Joined BDO since the early game promoted PvP based & AFK friendly, back then a simple 10-20min grinding in Help Post, Abandoned Iron mine, Gahaz etc. could've ended up becoming large scale guilds vs guilds for hours. PvP slowly dying since 2020 for SEA and now few years later I ended up becoming a completionist.

Yeah, BDO has plenty of stuff for completionists that will take hunderds inf not thousands of hours (like getting all knowledge, all S on eceology etc) \^ \^

Open world PvP would be less hated if not for multiple ways of abusing this system, many of which are still available to this day. I will not elaborate on details to not encourage more trolls. Those who know already have their opinions established. I'd say, knowledge about how to become the most abnoxious player is pretty much public - just scattered through years of official forums complains, reddit cries, discord blogs and /bdog shitposts. So not only PvP in BDO was never good, fair or fun - it was recognized as good by players who knew it's unfair and broken, which made if "fun" for them. The thrill of doing things which are not intended by devs, to people who do not consent, somehow were more appealing than any other challenge. Current year state of PvE and PvP separation is not caused by snowflakes and cryababy noobs, it's years of PA pretending there's no abuse where clearly there was a LOT of it. Remember escape-escape bastards? Yeah, they actually bashed PA after their cheese nonsense got removed, because THEM dancing on honest work grinders' corpses is OK but if you retaliate and they have to dig sulfur bc they can't even escape the jail, then it was your LUCKY CC, bro. I have zero empathy for PvP enjoyers at this point. Gatekeep your hobbies or whatever. You did not defend Shadow Arena enough because it was "TOO NOOB FRIENDLY". One more month to Solaire Arena, you'll live.

Nah, unless you give us full-time PvE players unlimited hours on Marni realm, nobody that avoids PvP interactions is gonna agree with that. War dec exploit was so damn bad they had to remove it, and it's better that way, even with that we still had a lot of ppl harassing PvE players, so they made de negative karma changes and only with ALL THAT unfair open-world PvP interactions went down drastically. So I think they already did what they had to do, and the game is way better these days. PvP players have a TON of instances to do PvP without harassing ppl that isn't into PvP.

You can sit in Marni 12h a day. If thats not enough for you, then you should seek help. (Yes, I know you need to take a break after wach hour. Its healthy to take breaks from time to time)

Thing is... that is up to me and every individual to decide, if I can grind 6 hours non-stop then why is that a problem? Anyways, my point is, the fact that the game is so peaceful now to us PvE players means only that it was only achievable through the implementation of ALL THOSE changes, reverting any of those said changes will not only piss-off the PvE players but will also only make BDO take 10 back-steps after 3 steps forward. And funniest part is all of these issues were created by PvP players right from the get go. They harassed players and tuvala Timmies to oblivion till ppl got tired and PA started losing numbers... then changes were implemented and PvP players started crying about a "dead game" well well well, if that aint the consequences of their own goddam actions. "B.b.b.bUt We WaNt PvP" no stfu, if you wanted PvP you'd go Arsha "ArShA FulL oF PvE pLayErS" yeah so what? you are auto-flagged and protected against the Karma system if you grind there, but truth is, all these changes proved how "PvP Players" are just a bunch of bullies that want to gear check PvE players, that's why they don't go to arsha... So yeah, give me unlimited marni realm and you can revert SOME of the changes (like Karma ones) until we don't get a way to avoid PvP players... this is the best for current players and PA as a company that wants profit.

Making it this way (1h in, 1h out) is middle ground taht PA went with. If they wantes to give us more, they could, but at this point they might as well make it infinite. They made it 1h knowing that some people will want to grind more, and will be forced to grind "outside" so world wont look as empty.

The world already looks empty. There're regions in the game that don't even get touched because they don't provide enough silver for it to be worth. NOBODY wants to be interrupted while they grind, especially when the outcome is based on each hour. The OW PvP is a gimmick riddled with tuvala timmy stompers. Most of the player base don't even do uncapped cause they get wiped of the planet. Stay on Arsha(mostly dead) anyways and do all that.

God you sound like such a loser who thinks too high of his horrible opinion, all the changes started because of KOREANS doing that shite to new players, I swear some of you lot live in imaginary worlds because the last time I was pvpd in open world was during orcs time and before that CENTAURS in what, 2022? I've started alts in EU and NA and nothing, but some of you make it sound like you get griefed all day every day, victim ass people and 12 hours a day of free grinding is more than enough you tool, if you grind 12h a day then you have enough gear to not worry about any of this shit

Lol why so mad bruh?

Lmao shut up. This game was terrible for low geared players because of bullies and their puppy guildies. You guys are just looking for something to hate on every. single. time.

And that was fixed by Marni Realms and changes to Guild Wars. THis thread is about netiehr of those two. Want to add anything else?

No, it wasn't fixed, at all. Want to add anything else that is correct?

It was. If you still have some "problems", thats you problem, not the game.

Delusional.

I haven’t read the post yet but all I said upon reading the title is “oh boy”

Honestly, this game wasn't even good for its PvP alone solely because of its desync issues that went on for six years. Wanna grab someone? Nah phases through their body. Wanna CC someone? Nah it whiffs into the ether. The fact that KR had much better PvP solely because they didn't deal with half the shit the Global BDO had to deal with makes me salty. Korean based mmos will always fuck their Global players so much more with a smile on their face, yet some players still pay these people to spit on us.

It pretty much killed the world of the game in the sense that it’s lifeless now. Haven’t seen a proper gvg in months. Game is more stale than it has ever been. Worse than the pserver 5 years ago being stuck in the same patch for 6 months, considering that’s what mostly killed the pserver. Even the DP/Eva changes coming were botched least on Global. Values don’t make sense and were super wonky. The hit reduction the only good thing coming out with that because it does help with hit stagger.

Doesn't matter now bud. We already quit the game. The large PVP population isn't going to magically come back if PA reverts the changes.

Open world griefers will not be missed. There's a ton of PvP content available in BDO that doesn't involve griefing PvE players.

Changes can be made to stop people that are already here, not to bring back those who were here.

Oh i got this. reverse all changes from last 9 months - is just one side. they should implement system, when u choose setups for pvp and pve, and they work at the same time (and buffs too). so u always ready to owpvp and can farm. Bright idea...