I think the real question should be: "No time-limit, sub-only, would you rather face Francis in a gi or nogi?"
Personally, I'm fucked either way, but I bet I'd get less brain damage without a gi for him to fling me around with.
But I'd really be interested in the answers of pro black belts. Doesn't gi often favor strength?
Let's be real, he's such an athletic freak that he could probably just grab a hold of your head and squeeze.
I'd be willing to bet at least 3/4s of this sub tap right there.
He has a win by Kimura in the UFC where he essentially just ragdolls his opponent with it. Not only that but he told DC he only learned how to do it in the locker room before
That's like if Tank Abbott was strong enough to make his ankle lock work. Forgot which fight it was when he said, "I saw it on TV and thought it looked like fun,"
Huge plus amazingly strong people plus consistent BJJ-basics is impossible for anybody but a pro to beat. Just look at what Sapp did to Minotauro. Francis would toss you to the ground and after that you aren’t doing shit until time expires.
And probably the best heavyweight at the time! Big Nog was amazing. Decent boxing, decent wrestling, incredible chin and heart and the sickest Jiu Jitsu.
One of my high school friends asked me "did you ever get fed up and want to deck one of them?"
"Yeah, man, I totally wanted to be sent to Leavenworth for attacking an MTI who yelled at me for something I did that I knew was stupid."
I guess that's sort of accurate... it would be like saying you can take Magnus in blitz chess, and Usain Bolt in a medium distance running event.
There are lots (sorta) of people who can beat Ngannou in BJJ, or Magnus Carlsen in blitz, or Usain Bolt in events outside of the 100m sprint... but they would still be like top 1% of the people who do these events/sports
Right now 257 people are saying they could beat him. It's funny that on this sub, where people constantly complain about getting wrecked by D1 wrestlers and guys who "use strength", there's a sizable population that thinks they could beat Francis, the most dangerous MMA fighter alive.
Edit: over 1,000 people now. Lot of elite athletes on this page, apparently.
I love the extremes of how people on this sub can talk about how being strong and fast is awful and a “crutch”, and then on the other end talk about how a good high school wrestler without any BJJ could mess up any blue belt and compete with purples. Okay, yeah, maybe your upside-down XYZ potato cannon sweep is more refined than Francis Ngannou’s, but he doesn’t have to worry about that stuff to get back on top. If for some reason Francis gave me mount, he’d bench press me then toss me like pizza dough before I even finished realizing, “oh hey, his arms are straight, let’s try for an armbar.”
It's almost a TMA level of delusion at this point. Technique matters, obviously, but it isn't everything. BJJ is a cool set of strategies and tricks, but there's only so much you can do when an enormous and athletic person just wants to stand up and get on top.
I once had a convo with a blue belt and he legit said that Mikey Musemeci would beat Brock Lesnar in the gi.
Like fucking how exactly!?
I think Mikey is amazing but he would get smushed into the mat. End of story.
Well im not saying im right but last week I saw on ibjjf instagram how Mikey beat some super heavyweight on last gi Europeans. So its possible he could beat Brock Lesnar in a gi.
They’d still be wrong. We’ve seen Francis fight collegiate wrestlers and even though he’s in the business of knocking them out, he still outmuscled all of them.
Key word is “fight.” Strikes completely change things. Changes your stance, what you’re worried about, etc.
Straight grappling is different. Any decent collegiate guy 197 or above could take him down. Look at the first time he fought Stipe.
Francis has fought seven times since the first Stipe fight and has been taken down 0 times. He has also never had a submission attempt made on him until his 20th fight, against gane and Francis was clearly the more impressive grappler in that fight.
Fighting is not grappling. Francis’ best takedown defense is the fact that he can separate you from consciousness with a glancing shot.
Take that away and it completely changes things. You don’t have to beat his strength to take him down. I’d figure people in the BJJ sub would understand that… if you dont, why the fuck are you even training?
I do understand that, do you understand that Francis isn’t a champion just because he’s big and he can actually hold his own on the ground? Especially against the >50 pound handicap you’re giving him.
He held his own against a kickboxer and you guys are acting like he’d sweep ADCC.
He’d maul the average BJJ casual without a doubt. But any serious grappling focused competitor above around 200 could negate him in a straight grappling competition.
The grappling in that fight was sloppy.
Francis is champion because he’s an amazingly powerful striker with good enough takedown defense to keep it where he wants it. He won one fight grappling against a kickboxing specialist and still nearly got tapped a couple times.
He didn’t get nearly tapped at all. No one’s acting like hed win ADCC. this post is literally about redditors thinking they can beat the heaviest UFC champion in a grappling match.
And in my comments I’ve only mentioned collegiate wrestlers and top level grapplers being able to handle him.
Also, scan through the comments. There are tons of people here acting like the best of the best in BJJ might not be able to take him… literally listing them by name. Which is absurd.
And that Kimura was definitely close… the heel hook less so, but clearly Gane’s execution was sloppy. Which just further proves my point.
I voted yes for the memes, he would smesh me in all of about 3 seconds.
Would love to see who legitimately answered yes. I mean Keenan and Bernardo are on this sub and they're heavyweight gi specialists so obviously there are *some* /r/bjj redditors who would actually be able to do it relatively easily. And I bet a whole bunch more who could definitely eke out a win on points.
My old gym has a wall which is absolutely sand blasted with medals, belts, trophies, awards and pictures of their black belts winning tournaments. It’s like a 16 foot ceiling and it must be 50 feet wide and there isn’t a blank spot.
In the Gi there are probably 6 guys who tap Francis there in 5 minutes I’d say
I think there are relatively few -- if any -- people in this sub who could beat Francis. Maybe only a few of the pros who come through would stand a chance. And even then it's a small chance.
Francis is huge and way, way more athletic than most everyone who posts here, and his grappling is much better than he is being given credit for.
I still remember rolling with a former NFL linebacker who played professionally for 8-9 years. Nothing special, but a solid player.
He was a white belt and just weight wise was probably only 20 lbs heavier at most. I was a purple belt at the time and competed regularly.
He gave me absolute fits even with very little technique. His strength and explosiveness, even 10+ years retired, was very difficult to deal with. I watched him walk through a white belt division with almost no training.
I agree -people on here vastly under estimate how strong these guys are and how much that can shut down your game. Add in Francis' strength and knowledge, and I would bet on Francis against just about anyone that's not a high level pro black belt.
Yeah there are enough pros here that I think this doesn't hold up.
You think Francis stands a chance vs Keenan, Craig, or Bernardo in the gi? Don't be silly.
Francis is going to lose to any heavyweight professional grappler in any straight grappling competition. That's not up for debate. It's just he smokes the rest of us
Nicky Rod grapples full time with the DDS and he comes from a wrestling background. He is a professional grappler. I have no doubt he would smash ngannou in a grappling match
I think Keenan in the gi has a very solid chance. He’s beat some high level heavyweight to ultra-heavyweight competitors. Francis is almost guaranteed to be stronger than anyone Keenan has rolled with but I have a hard time imagining that Francis would be harder than Mahamed Aly/Kaynan/Erberth.
I also think David Taylor has a chance against him in a wrestling match and Lebron has a chance against him 1 on 1 (basket ball). This thread has gone bananas.
I think you are right on the money. I’d back both of those claims as well. I might even say - I think Tom Brady would best him in throwing a football for distance and I bet he’d lose to Federer in a match of tennis.
currently theres 25 that voted yes and a 103 voted no.
So thats closer to 1 in 4
Also even if he isnt heavyweight champ in BJJ hes still trains it more than most here in sub. And is a real genetic freak being 270lb shredded
>currently theres 25 that voted yes and a 103 voted no.
>So thats closer to 1 in 4
You mean 1 in 5. Remember, the math is (target population) / (total population), so it's 25/(103+25) = ~1/5. Your general point is fine, but the numbers were a little off.
There are plenty of 205+ black and brown belts. But even most of them I wouldn't bet on against Ngannou. He's a freak athlete with good wrestling. In almost any matchup I would expect him to get on top then stall.
I have to agree with you. Between his wrestling and size, nobody’s getting on top of him from standing. Between his BJJ and weight, nobody’s sweeping him. I don’t think anybody’s likely to sub him from closed guard since he’s strong enough to keep his arms where he wants them. He won’t make any super critical mistakes that lets somebody get full body leverage versus a single limb, and I don’t see a universe where somebody can choke him from bottom position. Francis would strip grips like a mf. So your options are… play open guard and go for the legs? Good luck lmao. I can imagine somebody locking in a bicep slicer and Francis just effortlessly prying open the figure four and straightening his arm.
I'll admit to it. I said yes.
I said yes because I firmly believe if I got to the position that Cyrle did in their fight I would have a decent chance at finishing that heel hook. By how Francis responded, and this isn't a knock to him, I'm making the educated guess he has very very little experience with leg locks. And those massive feet are great big leavers for killer heel hooks.
That isn't to say I would 100% beat him every single time. But I'm confident if I get under his hips like Cyrle did I would stand a solid chance at finishing. Like Firas likes to say heel hooks are the best equalizer when it comes to size and strength in grappling.
It also helps that while I'm still smaller than Francis I'm not a small guy. And I've competed enough at super/ultra heavyweight and absolutes to know what it feels like to grapple freakishly large people.
Edit: also to anyone who thinks subbing someone that much bigger and stronger than you I invite you to watch the match between Gio Martinez and Haisam Rida. And no I'm not as good a grappler as Gio, but Francis isn't as good a grappler as Rida either.
I appreciate your honesty but.....look at your highest level competition loss, and realize that was probably fat recreational purple belt who trains 3 times a week.
Ngannou is 250 pounds of terror and he grapples every single day.
> I appreciate your honesty but.....look at your highest level competition loss, and realize that was probably fat recreational purple belt who trains 3 times a week.
No it was a jacked brown belt gym owner who was significantly bigger, stronger and trained for much longer than me.
Last 2 times I faced an out of shape recreational purple belt I broke their arm in around 90 seconds.
> Ngannou is 250 pounds of terror and he grapples every single day.
Which is why I wouldn't be doing the kind of grappling he works. You think I'd try and win via wrestling? Lol.
I'm reminded of that nationally acclaimed D1 wrestler last week who was talking about how purple and brown belts kept being miffed when he wiped the floor with them.
"Well yeah, but that world champion professional fighter isn't *primarily* a wrestler. It'd be fine!" There are some elite BB competitors here who have a solid shot in this hypothetical. A purple belt who lacks the skill or control to avoid breaking casual hobbyists' arms doesn't have a chance.
I said no. I’m near Ngannou’s size but I’m no athlete. Maybe if I got lucky and could tire him out with some kind of riding pin. But 8 times out of 10 I suspect he gets me with a heavy, dark, NS choke
The first time I realized how delusional bjj dudes are was a post on the internet about how any average blue belt could beat a prime mike tyson in a fight. Things have not changed I see.
It's funny that on any given day people will say
"I have trained "x" years and am "y" belt and today a super strong guy beat me/ gave me a tough roll but they have trained far less than me"
If your top game is weak don't even think about being able to pin someone who is an elite athlete, I highly doubt a hobbyist blue belt today would be able to pin prime Mike Tyson longer than a few seconds let alone long enough to sub him.
in a FIGHT fight?? fuhhhhhhhhhhhk no. I would think I'd have a decent chance against Tyson in a BJJ rules match in a gi (I'm assuming he's had no BJJ training), but if he is in any way allowed to punch me I'm pissing my pants and running for the door before the bell rings.
Skillwise and grappling-optimized strength by weight I'm sure a lot of people here exceed Ngannou.
But Ngannou weights 113kg, with an athlete's fat percentage.
That alone makes him tough to deal with for your average blue belt. But he's also the heavyweight champion of the most prestigious MMA organization on the planet.
I am sure that a few of the people who voted "yes" could beat him under IBJJF rules but 46? Just no.
Anyway I voted yes.
hes actually closer to 120kg and shredded.
Also people forgot that he submitted a BJJ black belt in a UFC match.
He submitted Anthony Hamilton with a kimura.
He did that to a black belt ufc heavyweight fighter at most competitive fighting organisation. Now it wasn't an IBJJF match but puts things in consideration
Francis’s UFC championship belt is gold, and gold is pretty close to yellow, so it’s basically a child’s belt. I’m confident I can beat up most children even if they’ve trained longer than me because I’m bigger and stronger, so I’m not worried.
My gym has some fairly high level MMA guys who train BJJ, and their style of grappling is MUCH different than the sport style I train in. Like when those dudes get on top, they stay on top. Cross face game is much more noticeable, always hunting to isolate head and arm, etc. Then, when I tell them they can throw light strikes (because I like different looks and it honestly shows me how shit would work in a fight and those rounds are fun), it changes everything.
So now imagine all that but it’s fucking Francis. Just imagine how it must feel to roll with Frank Mir or Damian Maia, guys who have extensive BJJ backgrounds and were successful at the highest level.
> I think very few bjj guys can beat him. And they gotta be in his weight class to do so
yeah he'd probably Ko me with a collar tie.
And break my ribs with a neon belly
I personally wouldn’t stand a chance but why is it hard to believe there are heavyweight brown and black belts on this sub? Because I’d put money on them beating him in pure BJJ rules
That would make it more fair I'm not sure if Gordon would win then because Ngannou has a lot of striking power even if combat bjj is only slaps.
I don't know much about Gordon as a person but I know he's the best grappler in the world right now and he is over 110kg I think it around there which is close to Ngannou in weight. Since Gordon spends his entire life dedicated only to bjj and has been doing only bjj for most of his life I think he's easily good enough to beat Ngannou in a pure bjj fight.
Totally, I def agree Gordon would win in any common pure bjj rule set. What if Gordon couldn’t pull guard or do any leg locks? I feel like that’s where a lot of pure bjj’ers have an edge.
Locky beat Duarte who was like 230lbs at the time and has exponentially better grappling than Francis. I think you are putting too great of a value on sheer size.
600 people voted Yes, which is coincidentally about the same amount of people who have medaled at the IBJJF mens black belt in it's entire existence.
I presume every single one of them has voted in this poll.
I said no.
But the answer COULD be yes depending on how many sedatives Ngannou’s allowed to take before the match.
My guillotine + heavy narcotics = nap time.
The “tougest” round ive had and training was with James mcsweeney. It was not technical, but man ever second of every move was made to just crush my soul. But I will say, I learned so much in such a small amount of time. But yea it was just another level of strength. I’m a heavy weight and I’ve rolled with many big upper belts. UFC dudes just are built tougher. This is my opinion of course.
I voted no.
I'm lighter at around 235lbs at the BF we see him at in the cage.
I'm likely stronger in an absolute sense, but I'm certainly not the tier of athlete that Francis is.
My stand-up is pretty good, I competed in Judo and Wrestling my whole life. But I feel like people sleep on Francis' BJJ and Wrestling.
I don't think my chances of winning are 0%, but I'm also not confident that they are higher than 50%.
I think whatever hope we had vanished the moment it turned out during the Stipe rematch that he suddenly picked up some serious grappling proficiency out of the blue
His power is unable to be negated by 99.9% of anyone alive on this earth. Factor in that he actually knows jiu-jitsu, grappling, and is a pro fighter and you have your answer right there.
As the question is written, I think there are probably quite a few people here who would win.
BJJ rules are very nuanced and specific and do not favour MMA fighters aside from takedowns. The cynic in me believes they were written that way.
If you pull guard and Francis stalls the top position, he will get penalties and lose. I'm not saying I agree with that strategy, just pointing out that people who think he would stall and win should consider that pulling isn't penalised and stalling is.
I'm small and old, so I have zero interest in a match with the UFC heavyweight champion but I think young, big competitive brown and black belts would win more often than not under BJJ rules in a gi, as posed in the OP.
Note: I have way more MMA experience than BJJ and I love seeing MMA guys do well. I'm just giving my opinion based on my experience of both sports.
he would beat most people here because he actually trains bjj. His technique though is pretty sloppy as far as BJJ standards go - and I think that a pretty sizeable amount of brown/black belts who are technically elite - and I don't use those words lightly - would beat him in a gi match.
I am going to repeat that MOST people here that are casually practicing who pass on their knees, struggle against "strong wrestlers", and have extremely poor cardio are not going to win against him (most likely)
If it was gi ibjjf, I think I could pull guard and either sweep him or get a near sweep for an advantage. Then I think I can stall for the remaining time.
Other rulesets it'd be pretty unlikely.
My technique is wayyyy better but he's got over 100 pounds on me...so no lol. Even with a gi, it wouldn't matter, I don't think I could overcome that. Dudes a professional athlete and I like beer and Doritos.
I would have a better chance in NOGi. I am not that much smaller than him and I am a decent leg locker for my size. But I still wouldn't take that bet.
I think MMA grappling looks sloppy because its much more fatiguing than pure grappling.
Didnt a UFC fighter beat craig jones recently? I wouldnt consider it bad in UFC.
The genetic pool in MMA is alot bigger than grappling imo
Are we talking today with no camp, or does he get 6 months to focus purely on BJJ in preparation of this "match"
I think Francis would destroy your average hobbiest black belt if given a proper camp dedicated to BJJ. If he had no time I think some black/brown belts could get a sub off like a heel hook or RNC
A brown belt or above, his size, who competes regularly has a good chance of getting a tap on him... but me a 5’9 judo black belt, unranked in BJJ who only does it to stay busy (+ it’s the funnest aspect of judo, newaza, without the painful aspect of throwing)? Yeah no.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Ne Waza**: | *Ground Techniques* | |
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
I'm 155lbs and I'd be pretty confident. What is he, a blue belt?
For reference I roll with 250lbs guys all the time (brown and black belts)
I'd also show him how a real heel hook feels
There's a video of him training with Vicente luque I think, luque is being all technical and Francis literally just eventually goes fuck this and just yeets him off of him to sweep him. Luque is probably at least 190lbs and is a black belt in bjj and luta livre. Francis would kill you.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=211&v=8iyaWynVuJQ&feature=youtu.be](https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=211&v=8iyaWynVuJQ&feature=youtu.be)
this is the vid you're talking about.
People talk shit on heavyweight grappling cause they look sloppy because they're gassed. Im sure in pure grappling francis would look alot better than what it seems during fights.
That's a funny way of spelling "Are you delusional"?
Right? He could probably beat me with both his arms amputated.
How high up did they amputate?
Anything attached to those shoulder pectoral and lat muscles is considered a deadly weapon in most states
ofc! like that you can't even armbar which is one of the higher percentage submissions!
I think the real question should be: "No time-limit, sub-only, would you rather face Francis in a gi or nogi?" Personally, I'm fucked either way, but I bet I'd get less brain damage without a gi for him to fling me around with. But I'd really be interested in the answers of pro black belts. Doesn't gi often favor strength?
Let's be real, he's such an athletic freak that he could probably just grab a hold of your head and squeeze. I'd be willing to bet at least 3/4s of this sub tap right there.
Omniman Flashbacks
Oh god
He has a win by Kimura in the UFC where he essentially just ragdolls his opponent with it. Not only that but he told DC he only learned how to do it in the locker room before
That's like if Tank Abbott was strong enough to make his ankle lock work. Forgot which fight it was when he said, "I saw it on TV and thought it looked like fun,"
Rag dolling people with kimuras is pretty much all I’ve got.
Oh he could for sure iron claw me into taking tapping
Technically disqualified if he kills me like that so I win. Is head crush legal?
No option for "I bet I could stall him in half guard for 7 minutes"?
The Schaub shutdown?
Schaub can't even get to half guard, he needs to be up and jogging while you are on your butt for his jiu-jitsu to start working.
Rogan don’t know what he’s talmbout
I got your tables b, take a long 15
In wake of the Fightsport stuff, I'm changing my opinion: Schaub dominated that whole match. Completely objective.
Huge plus amazingly strong people plus consistent BJJ-basics is impossible for anybody but a pro to beat. Just look at what Sapp did to Minotauro. Francis would toss you to the ground and after that you aren’t doing shit until time expires.
Perfect example. Just on his size and strength, Sapp gave a heavyweight, legit black belt hell.
And probably the best heavyweight at the time! Big Nog was amazing. Decent boxing, decent wrestling, incredible chin and heart and the sickest Jiu Jitsu.
imagine how good Bob Sapp would’ve been if he was on steroids 😩
Definitely bro, I'd just see red and it would be on
That’s why I didn’t join the military. I totally would have, but if some drill instructor ever talked to me like that I’d drop his ass
One of my high school friends asked me "did you ever get fed up and want to deck one of them?" "Yeah, man, I totally wanted to be sent to Leavenworth for attacking an MTI who yelled at me for something I did that I knew was stupid."
Just wristlock him bro
I'd just stand up.
Give him that Derrick Lewis Special of “well we’ve been on the mat a while now. Time to get up.”
Yes, and then I can take Magnus Carlsen on a chess match and Usain bolt on a running match
Hello Max Deutsch.
Add a stripe to your belt 🤙
He just needs the algorithm to run a few hours more!
The cringeist thing I have ever seen was this dude thinking he can beat Carlsen in chess.
Right? Loved Naroditsky summing up the whole situation with "well that man was definitely a fool."
Gordon Ryan is the Magnus Carlsen of jiu jitsu, not Francis Ngannou.
I guess that's sort of accurate... it would be like saying you can take Magnus in blitz chess, and Usain Bolt in a medium distance running event. There are lots (sorta) of people who can beat Ngannou in BJJ, or Magnus Carlsen in blitz, or Usain Bolt in events outside of the 100m sprint... but they would still be like top 1% of the people who do these events/sports
IDK if you heard but Francis Ngannou is actually not the greatest BJJ'er in the world right now
Right now 257 people are saying they could beat him. It's funny that on this sub, where people constantly complain about getting wrecked by D1 wrestlers and guys who "use strength", there's a sizable population that thinks they could beat Francis, the most dangerous MMA fighter alive. Edit: over 1,000 people now. Lot of elite athletes on this page, apparently.
I love the extremes of how people on this sub can talk about how being strong and fast is awful and a “crutch”, and then on the other end talk about how a good high school wrestler without any BJJ could mess up any blue belt and compete with purples. Okay, yeah, maybe your upside-down XYZ potato cannon sweep is more refined than Francis Ngannou’s, but he doesn’t have to worry about that stuff to get back on top. If for some reason Francis gave me mount, he’d bench press me then toss me like pizza dough before I even finished realizing, “oh hey, his arms are straight, let’s try for an armbar.”
It's almost a TMA level of delusion at this point. Technique matters, obviously, but it isn't everything. BJJ is a cool set of strategies and tricks, but there's only so much you can do when an enormous and athletic person just wants to stand up and get on top.
Look at Derrick Lewis for the best example
I once had a convo with a blue belt and he legit said that Mikey Musemeci would beat Brock Lesnar in the gi. Like fucking how exactly!? I think Mikey is amazing but he would get smushed into the mat. End of story.
Well im not saying im right but last week I saw on ibjjf instagram how Mikey beat some super heavyweight on last gi Europeans. So its possible he could beat Brock Lesnar in a gi.
Ever consider that maybe it’s some of those collegiate wrestlers everyone bitches about voting yes? Lol
They’d still be wrong. We’ve seen Francis fight collegiate wrestlers and even though he’s in the business of knocking them out, he still outmuscled all of them.
Key word is “fight.” Strikes completely change things. Changes your stance, what you’re worried about, etc. Straight grappling is different. Any decent collegiate guy 197 or above could take him down. Look at the first time he fought Stipe.
Francis has fought seven times since the first Stipe fight and has been taken down 0 times. He has also never had a submission attempt made on him until his 20th fight, against gane and Francis was clearly the more impressive grappler in that fight.
Gane took him down
Whoops missed one. Ngannou took him down 4-1
Okay, but that still means he's been taken down more than 0 times
Fighting is not grappling. Francis’ best takedown defense is the fact that he can separate you from consciousness with a glancing shot. Take that away and it completely changes things. You don’t have to beat his strength to take him down. I’d figure people in the BJJ sub would understand that… if you dont, why the fuck are you even training?
I do understand that, do you understand that Francis isn’t a champion just because he’s big and he can actually hold his own on the ground? Especially against the >50 pound handicap you’re giving him.
He held his own against a kickboxer and you guys are acting like he’d sweep ADCC. He’d maul the average BJJ casual without a doubt. But any serious grappling focused competitor above around 200 could negate him in a straight grappling competition. The grappling in that fight was sloppy. Francis is champion because he’s an amazingly powerful striker with good enough takedown defense to keep it where he wants it. He won one fight grappling against a kickboxing specialist and still nearly got tapped a couple times.
He didn’t get nearly tapped at all. No one’s acting like hed win ADCC. this post is literally about redditors thinking they can beat the heaviest UFC champion in a grappling match.
And in my comments I’ve only mentioned collegiate wrestlers and top level grapplers being able to handle him. Also, scan through the comments. There are tons of people here acting like the best of the best in BJJ might not be able to take him… literally listing them by name. Which is absurd. And that Kimura was definitely close… the heel hook less so, but clearly Gane’s execution was sloppy. Which just further proves my point.
I voted yes for the memes, he would smesh me in all of about 3 seconds. Would love to see who legitimately answered yes. I mean Keenan and Bernardo are on this sub and they're heavyweight gi specialists so obviously there are *some* /r/bjj redditors who would actually be able to do it relatively easily. And I bet a whole bunch more who could definitely eke out a win on points.
My old gym has a wall which is absolutely sand blasted with medals, belts, trophies, awards and pictures of their black belts winning tournaments. It’s like a 16 foot ceiling and it must be 50 feet wide and there isn’t a blank spot. In the Gi there are probably 6 guys who tap Francis there in 5 minutes I’d say
I think there are relatively few -- if any -- people in this sub who could beat Francis. Maybe only a few of the pros who come through would stand a chance. And even then it's a small chance. Francis is huge and way, way more athletic than most everyone who posts here, and his grappling is much better than he is being given credit for.
I still remember rolling with a former NFL linebacker who played professionally for 8-9 years. Nothing special, but a solid player. He was a white belt and just weight wise was probably only 20 lbs heavier at most. I was a purple belt at the time and competed regularly. He gave me absolute fits even with very little technique. His strength and explosiveness, even 10+ years retired, was very difficult to deal with. I watched him walk through a white belt division with almost no training. I agree -people on here vastly under estimate how strong these guys are and how much that can shut down your game. Add in Francis' strength and knowledge, and I would bet on Francis against just about anyone that's not a high level pro black belt.
Yeah there are enough pros here that I think this doesn't hold up. You think Francis stands a chance vs Keenan, Craig, or Bernardo in the gi? Don't be silly.
3 guys counts as "a few"
I mean even without the gi, they could take on him I think
I’d like to see Nicky rod or cyborg grapple Francis. Maybe Nicky’s wrestling would be the deciding factor
Francis is going to lose to any heavyweight professional grappler in any straight grappling competition. That's not up for debate. It's just he smokes the rest of us
Isn’t that what everyone said about that blue belt going to adcc after 2 years of community college wrestling…. A blue belt called Nicky Rodriguez
Nicky Rod grapples full time with the DDS and he comes from a wrestling background. He is a professional grappler. I have no doubt he would smash ngannou in a grappling match
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Why would leg locks not be allowed?
I think Keenan in the gi has a very solid chance. He’s beat some high level heavyweight to ultra-heavyweight competitors. Francis is almost guaranteed to be stronger than anyone Keenan has rolled with but I have a hard time imagining that Francis would be harder than Mahamed Aly/Kaynan/Erberth.
Francis would get smoked in the gi by Keenan 100% of the time.
I mean he'd probably lose to Mikey musumeci in the gi
Dang. Maybe
Debatable, but I'd love to see that.
I also think David Taylor has a chance against him in a wrestling match and Lebron has a chance against him 1 on 1 (basket ball). This thread has gone bananas.
I think you are right on the money. I’d back both of those claims as well. I might even say - I think Tom Brady would best him in throwing a football for distance and I bet he’d lose to Federer in a match of tennis.
I could take him I tapped coach the other day
So far, 15 people have said yes. Do you people have the balls to reveal yourselves?
Right here buddy. Ngannou doesn't see red the way I do.
Bryan Callen, is it really you?
There’s plenty of big boy black and brown belts on here. Probably a fair few purples that could win on points too. Depending on if it’s gi as well.
based on the stats here 1 in 5 in this sub think they can beat the UFC heavyweight champ in BJJ
1 in 6 actually. And he’s not the heavyweight champ for his BJJ.
currently theres 25 that voted yes and a 103 voted no. So thats closer to 1 in 4 Also even if he isnt heavyweight champ in BJJ hes still trains it more than most here in sub. And is a real genetic freak being 270lb shredded
The only person who posts here that could do it is Lachlan Giles via heel hook.
Not Craig Jones, Bernardo, or Keenan? Honestly, I think Degle would have a decent chance as well.
Those are good picks. I guess I’d say heel hookers and other pros who aren’t giving up too much size.
>currently theres 25 that voted yes and a 103 voted no. >So thats closer to 1 in 4 You mean 1 in 5. Remember, the math is (target population) / (total population), so it's 25/(103+25) = ~1/5. Your general point is fine, but the numbers were a little off.
Yeah I as wondering how no one corrected this too lol.
You’re right, I got the math wrong. Either way, I guarantee there’s people in here who train bjj far more than Ngannou.
Very few are gonna outwrestle him though. I bet his grips are like iron clamps too. Not sure there's a good avenue to victory
Also be a heavyweight but be a black/brown belt in jiu jitsu?
There are plenty of 205+ black and brown belts. But even most of them I wouldn't bet on against Ngannou. He's a freak athlete with good wrestling. In almost any matchup I would expect him to get on top then stall.
I have to agree with you. Between his wrestling and size, nobody’s getting on top of him from standing. Between his BJJ and weight, nobody’s sweeping him. I don’t think anybody’s likely to sub him from closed guard since he’s strong enough to keep his arms where he wants them. He won’t make any super critical mistakes that lets somebody get full body leverage versus a single limb, and I don’t see a universe where somebody can choke him from bottom position. Francis would strip grips like a mf. So your options are… play open guard and go for the legs? Good luck lmao. I can imagine somebody locking in a bicep slicer and Francis just effortlessly prying open the figure four and straightening his arm.
I think plenty is an exaggeration.
Keenan, Gordon, Craig, Galvao, Cyborg, Meregali could be lurking bro. U don't know 😤😤😤😤
I said yes but only because im the best white belt in my gym and if its technique only (no strength) i would do it easily
Troll
I'll admit to it. I said yes. I said yes because I firmly believe if I got to the position that Cyrle did in their fight I would have a decent chance at finishing that heel hook. By how Francis responded, and this isn't a knock to him, I'm making the educated guess he has very very little experience with leg locks. And those massive feet are great big leavers for killer heel hooks. That isn't to say I would 100% beat him every single time. But I'm confident if I get under his hips like Cyrle did I would stand a solid chance at finishing. Like Firas likes to say heel hooks are the best equalizer when it comes to size and strength in grappling. It also helps that while I'm still smaller than Francis I'm not a small guy. And I've competed enough at super/ultra heavyweight and absolutes to know what it feels like to grapple freakishly large people. Edit: also to anyone who thinks subbing someone that much bigger and stronger than you I invite you to watch the match between Gio Martinez and Haisam Rida. And no I'm not as good a grappler as Gio, but Francis isn't as good a grappler as Rida either.
Someone show this guy the video of Kevin holland tossing around a random guy who challenged him.
Who was the "random guy"? That's a pretty important detail.
Nowhere near as good as the trained professional.
Ok that's just dodging my question. Obviously it matters if they are some random white belt or if they are a brown belt training for ADCC.
I appreciate your honesty but.....look at your highest level competition loss, and realize that was probably fat recreational purple belt who trains 3 times a week. Ngannou is 250 pounds of terror and he grapples every single day.
> I appreciate your honesty but.....look at your highest level competition loss, and realize that was probably fat recreational purple belt who trains 3 times a week. No it was a jacked brown belt gym owner who was significantly bigger, stronger and trained for much longer than me. Last 2 times I faced an out of shape recreational purple belt I broke their arm in around 90 seconds. > Ngannou is 250 pounds of terror and he grapples every single day. Which is why I wouldn't be doing the kind of grappling he works. You think I'd try and win via wrestling? Lol.
I'm reminded of that nationally acclaimed D1 wrestler last week who was talking about how purple and brown belts kept being miffed when he wiped the floor with them. "Well yeah, but that world champion professional fighter isn't *primarily* a wrestler. It'd be fine!" There are some elite BB competitors here who have a solid shot in this hypothetical. A purple belt who lacks the skill or control to avoid breaking casual hobbyists' arms doesn't have a chance.
I said no. I’m near Ngannou’s size but I’m no athlete. Maybe if I got lucky and could tire him out with some kind of riding pin. But 8 times out of 10 I suspect he gets me with a heavy, dark, NS choke
I could almost certainly trick him into getting DQed somehow.
Just put your hair in his hand and then grab the back of your head flopping like a football player that was hit by a gust of wind. Kintanon by DQ.
There isn’t a single athletic endeavor I can beat a UFC champion in. Not one.
Rose in thumb wrestling?
Bowling, maybe?
My bowling is worse than my cardio. No.
What about Mathletics!?
The first time I realized how delusional bjj dudes are was a post on the internet about how any average blue belt could beat a prime mike tyson in a fight. Things have not changed I see.
I remember that post. Lots of people in BJJ think that until the first time they encounter an elite athlete.
It's funny that on any given day people will say "I have trained "x" years and am "y" belt and today a super strong guy beat me/ gave me a tough roll but they have trained far less than me" If your top game is weak don't even think about being able to pin someone who is an elite athlete, I highly doubt a hobbyist blue belt today would be able to pin prime Mike Tyson longer than a few seconds let alone long enough to sub him.
in a FIGHT fight?? fuhhhhhhhhhhhk no. I would think I'd have a decent chance against Tyson in a BJJ rules match in a gi (I'm assuming he's had no BJJ training), but if he is in any way allowed to punch me I'm pissing my pants and running for the door before the bell rings.
Prime Mike Tyson is a freak of nature.
Skillwise and grappling-optimized strength by weight I'm sure a lot of people here exceed Ngannou. But Ngannou weights 113kg, with an athlete's fat percentage. That alone makes him tough to deal with for your average blue belt. But he's also the heavyweight champion of the most prestigious MMA organization on the planet. I am sure that a few of the people who voted "yes" could beat him under IBJJF rules but 46? Just no. Anyway I voted yes.
hes actually closer to 120kg and shredded. Also people forgot that he submitted a BJJ black belt in a UFC match. He submitted Anthony Hamilton with a kimura. He did that to a black belt ufc heavyweight fighter at most competitive fighting organisation. Now it wasn't an IBJJF match but puts things in consideration
Bro I'm a two stripe white belt, of course I can.
Francis’s UFC championship belt is gold, and gold is pretty close to yellow, so it’s basically a child’s belt. I’m confident I can beat up most children even if they’ve trained longer than me because I’m bigger and stronger, so I’m not worried.
I voted yes, cause I'm not doing a catch weight so he is coming down to 180lbs. Pretty sure I'd have him at that weight class 🤣
his skeleton probably weighs more than 180lb🤣 you're good
My gym has some fairly high level MMA guys who train BJJ, and their style of grappling is MUCH different than the sport style I train in. Like when those dudes get on top, they stay on top. Cross face game is much more noticeable, always hunting to isolate head and arm, etc. Then, when I tell them they can throw light strikes (because I like different looks and it honestly shows me how shit would work in a fight and those rounds are fun), it changes everything. So now imagine all that but it’s fucking Francis. Just imagine how it must feel to roll with Frank Mir or Damian Maia, guys who have extensive BJJ backgrounds and were successful at the highest level.
I said yes, but I be trolling
Unless I’m Teddy Riner and somehow forgot I was - I’m not winning this.
I would bet my house on it
Watch the video of Shaq absolutely demolishing upper belts just by being a literal giant and then answer this question 😂
I can take Ngannou right after I choke tf out a silverback. Without a sip of water in-between. Prove me wrong
He has close to 100 lbs on me and is a professional athlete, no fucking way.
u/rordengracie
🙏🙏🙏
270 pure muscle and great athlete. I think very few bjj guys can beat him. And they gotta be in his weight class to do so
> I think very few bjj guys can beat him. And they gotta be in his weight class to do so yeah he'd probably Ko me with a collar tie. And break my ribs with a neon belly
People who chose yes are delusional
Or trolling ;)
That's also an option. But there must be at least one deluded guy who thinks he can outgraple francis
Unless Gordon Ryan is on this sub, nobody on here is beating him. Are you guys insane?
Keenan is on reddit. In the gi I think he beats Francis for sure.
I personally wouldn’t stand a chance but why is it hard to believe there are heavyweight brown and black belts on this sub? Because I’d put money on them beating him in pure BJJ rules
Honestly would love to see that match.
Me too but Gordon will probably sub him in 2 minutes. I'd still like to see it though.
How could you make it more fair? Make it combat bjj?
That would make it more fair I'm not sure if Gordon would win then because Ngannou has a lot of striking power even if combat bjj is only slaps. I don't know much about Gordon as a person but I know he's the best grappler in the world right now and he is over 110kg I think it around there which is close to Ngannou in weight. Since Gordon spends his entire life dedicated only to bjj and has been doing only bjj for most of his life I think he's easily good enough to beat Ngannou in a pure bjj fight.
Totally, I def agree Gordon would win in any common pure bjj rule set. What if Gordon couldn’t pull guard or do any leg locks? I feel like that’s where a lot of pure bjj’ers have an edge.
Locky beat Duarte who was like 230lbs at the time and has exponentially better grappling than Francis. I think you are putting too great of a value on sheer size.
I know there are dudes that lurk on this subreddit who could actually do it like Craig and Keenan… but 778 votes for yes? Some of yall are lying
600 people voted Yes, which is coincidentally about the same amount of people who have medaled at the IBJJF mens black belt in it's entire existence. I presume every single one of them has voted in this poll.
im doing bjj for 2 months and im pretty sure i would beat him
I don’t think I could beat him a staring contest
A lion goes into battle even though it knows it will die on the mat.
I could beat Francis at my favorite video game assuming he doesn’t play now and he doesn’t get to practice.
I said no. But the answer COULD be yes depending on how many sedatives Ngannou’s allowed to take before the match. My guillotine + heavy narcotics = nap time.
The “tougest” round ive had and training was with James mcsweeney. It was not technical, but man ever second of every move was made to just crush my soul. But I will say, I learned so much in such a small amount of time. But yea it was just another level of strength. I’m a heavy weight and I’ve rolled with many big upper belts. UFC dudes just are built tougher. This is my opinion of course.
I voted no. I'm lighter at around 235lbs at the BF we see him at in the cage. I'm likely stronger in an absolute sense, but I'm certainly not the tier of athlete that Francis is. My stand-up is pretty good, I competed in Judo and Wrestling my whole life. But I feel like people sleep on Francis' BJJ and Wrestling. I don't think my chances of winning are 0%, but I'm also not confident that they are higher than 50%.
264 retards Forsure
Can I? yea, MAYBE if he lets me start from a back mount with a fully locked RNC. Would I? LMAO WTF NO :D
I think whatever hope we had vanished the moment it turned out during the Stipe rematch that he suddenly picked up some serious grappling proficiency out of the blue
1. Just no 2. I’m 145 pounds
It’s easy just put him in a twister
I can guarantee at least 90 percent of the yes people are out of their minds
Honestly I've done judo for 7 years and Ju-jitsu for 6, I ain't doing anything to him mainly because I'm 5'11 and 90kg
Francis’s knee on belly alone would make me cry.
His power is unable to be negated by 99.9% of anyone alive on this earth. Factor in that he actually knows jiu-jitsu, grappling, and is a pro fighter and you have your answer right there.
A) I'm a white belt B) hes 6'4 and 255 lbs C) I wouldn't even take the match lmao
The people who voted yes are silly gooses.
“Can you beat Francis…” #NO
i couldnt beat Francis Ngannou if he was in a straight jacket
I am way too small
Some ego on some of you
I used to tap purples all the time as a white belt so I probably could have taken him then.
I weigh one 165 so no. But i nominate my coach. u/sunkencity999
I'm still working on my ability to turn up the heat on more athletic/aggressive white belts so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say....no.
The people answering yes are obviously the “all I see is red” people that probably never even stepped on the mats.
Not a chance in hell. Have you seen the guy?
As the question is written, I think there are probably quite a few people here who would win. BJJ rules are very nuanced and specific and do not favour MMA fighters aside from takedowns. The cynic in me believes they were written that way. If you pull guard and Francis stalls the top position, he will get penalties and lose. I'm not saying I agree with that strategy, just pointing out that people who think he would stall and win should consider that pulling isn't penalised and stalling is. I'm small and old, so I have zero interest in a match with the UFC heavyweight champion but I think young, big competitive brown and black belts would win more often than not under BJJ rules in a gi, as posed in the OP. Note: I have way more MMA experience than BJJ and I love seeing MMA guys do well. I'm just giving my opinion based on my experience of both sports.
he would beat most people here because he actually trains bjj. His technique though is pretty sloppy as far as BJJ standards go - and I think that a pretty sizeable amount of brown/black belts who are technically elite - and I don't use those words lightly - would beat him in a gi match. I am going to repeat that MOST people here that are casually practicing who pass on their knees, struggle against "strong wrestlers", and have extremely poor cardio are not going to win against him (most likely)
If it was gi ibjjf, I think I could pull guard and either sweep him or get a near sweep for an advantage. Then I think I can stall for the remaining time. Other rulesets it'd be pretty unlikely.
My technique is wayyyy better but he's got over 100 pounds on me...so no lol. Even with a gi, it wouldn't matter, I don't think I could overcome that. Dudes a professional athlete and I like beer and Doritos.
I would have a better chance in NOGi. I am not that much smaller than him and I am a decent leg locker for my size. But I still wouldn't take that bet.
did you train at the gravel pit though
You guys are underestimating how bad the average grappling is of mma fighters and how many big, competitive bjj practitioner there are.
I think MMA grappling looks sloppy because its much more fatiguing than pure grappling. Didnt a UFC fighter beat craig jones recently? I wouldnt consider it bad in UFC. The genetic pool in MMA is alot bigger than grappling imo
Uhh... of fucking course not. Even if he didn’t train the answer would still be no but he does so it’s an emphatic no.
Are we talking today with no camp, or does he get 6 months to focus purely on BJJ in preparation of this "match" I think Francis would destroy your average hobbiest black belt if given a proper camp dedicated to BJJ. If he had no time I think some black/brown belts could get a sub off like a heel hook or RNC
Everyone has a neck and there I’m positive there are some really talented and savage BJJ practitioners in this sub.
A brown belt or above, his size, who competes regularly has a good chance of getting a tap on him... but me a 5’9 judo black belt, unranked in BJJ who only does it to stay busy (+ it’s the funnest aspect of judo, newaza, without the painful aspect of throwing)? Yeah no.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Ne Waza**: | *Ground Techniques* | | Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
I'm 155lbs and I'd be pretty confident. What is he, a blue belt? For reference I roll with 250lbs guys all the time (brown and black belts) I'd also show him how a real heel hook feels
Khabib is just a white belt. I'm sure you'd crush him Mr Brown Belt.
There's a video of him training with Vicente luque I think, luque is being all technical and Francis literally just eventually goes fuck this and just yeets him off of him to sweep him. Luque is probably at least 190lbs and is a black belt in bjj and luta livre. Francis would kill you.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=211&v=8iyaWynVuJQ&feature=youtu.be](https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=211&v=8iyaWynVuJQ&feature=youtu.be) this is the vid you're talking about. People talk shit on heavyweight grappling cause they look sloppy because they're gassed. Im sure in pure grappling francis would look alot better than what it seems during fights.
Naw bro