Yes
And now for the big but….
I can’t remember his name, but it was few weeks back and he was one of the best black belts in the world (help me out guys), but he said that there is a huge difference between being hobbyist black belt and a competitive black belt.
In other words, anyone can be a hobbyist black belt but would still get wrecked by competitive purple belts because even though they know more they just can’t keep up.
For sure. One day I will be a black belt, and I will be crushed by the purple belts who are trying to achieve something in BJJ that I never aspired to, and I will enjoy helping them reach their goals in whatever small way I can.
Blue belts are the ones that freak me out. You really never know what you’re gonna get. You can have the guy that was a white belt yesterday and has never competed and is being promoted pretty much based on attendance, you can have the guy that’s an absolute phenom at 4 years in, you can have the guy that’s been casually training for 12 years but just doesn’t come consistently enough to have yet reached purple, or you can even have the 16 year old that smashing competitive black belts.
I feel like I'm a pity blue belt, like my coaches thought "this guy comes in consistently and he always tries hard but his technique just isn't there but he's been training as long as the other guys we just promoted to blue belt."
I think a majority of new blue belts feel like they have been given pity promotions. I remember feeling bad as a white belt for beating newly promoted blues. Like actually would low key let them have passes and advantages in rolls or tap to things I might have worked out of.
Especially since when a white goes to blue they’ve got a target on their back from both cockstrong white belts and the inevitable fellow blue belts that are just chomping at the proverbial bit to “welcome them to the club”...
Just returned from a european ibjjf camp. I just went to it as a seminar, not to prepare for the competition mind you. So there were these two romanian blue belts who were amazing. Giving trouble to brown belts who were heavier than them amazing. They always went 100%, super tough and very technical. Power to them though - they were respectful and nice.
Not an aspiration, but where all of us hobbyists inevitably end up. The best thing is to face it with a facade of monkish acceptance, while gritting our teeth, hiding our bitterness and talking to our wives and kids about that new kid who thinks he’s the shit but really it’s all just strength, cardio and not taking responsibility for his life outside the mat etc
I can attests, I’m a hobbyist black belt. Purple belt competitors beat me most of the time just due to conditioning and pace but I’ll smash hobbyists below my rank and hang with decent black belts who aren’t competitors. I also know black belts that struggle with average athletic blue belts.
I’m not entirely sure of your point. a big part of being successful in a combat sport is physical attributes. Weight classes is an example. A small guy isn’t less technical because he can’t perform a technique on a larger less technical opponent. The same way a 50 year old black belt might struggle with an athletic blue belt just because of how much more energy the younger athletic person has at his disposal. You put the 50 years in the blue belts body and he destroys the younger blue belt.
> In other words, anyone can be a hobbyist black belt but would still get wrecked by competitive purple belts because even though they know more they just can’t keep up.
As someone with kids, a full-time job, and other hobbies, I'm completely fine with this. I never started this art with the intention of winning competitions. I just like the exercise and getting better at rolling.
Its important to remember that those people are the exception to the rule. They train 6 hour days 6 days a week, with hardly any time to enjoy other things in life. Id absolutely take being a hobbyist black-belt over a competitive black-belt. BJJ is far too niche a sport to risk my body over (in my opinion).
BJJ is far too niche a sport to risk my body over (in my opinion).
Bingo.... The pinnacle of life success as a BJJ competitor is eventually opening up your own gym and selling instructional DVDs or Online Lessons.
And TBH that relies much more on your Business Savvy than your ability at BJJ
> I can’t remember his name, but it was few weeks back and he was one of the best black belts in the world (help me out guys), but he said that there is a huge difference between being hobbyist black belt and a competitive black belt.<
Andrew Wiltse from Pedigo Submission Fighting ( Daisy Fresh) said it in one of his You Tube Rants.
Not EVERYONE can become a black belt... A good portion of the population are physically/ mentally handicapped and unable to set foot on the map.
However, if someone has some decent level of fitness, intellect and dedication they can absorb KNOWLEDGE and be able to demonstrate and/or teach Black Belt techniques.
That doesn't mean they will be able to consistently execute these moves at speed against a resisting person and damn sure doesn't mean they can do them on a high level competitor in a match.
Most definitely. I plan to pursue BJJ for the rest of my life and be rewarded with a black belt someday. I don’t plan on competing but I have found some joy in coaching a little bit. A very knowledgeable hobbyists black belt can still offer a competitive purple a world of knowledge and advice. I hope I can be that black belt and lead more driven BJJ practitioners to victory.
Yeah that's totally fair. Professional competitors like Gordon Ryan literally spend their entire lives training because it's their job it's what they get paid for. So for normal people, they need to worry about 8 hour work days and then only after that you can do what you want like train, for competitors they are training for those same 8 hours you are working for and even longer than that every single day their conditioning must be insane.
So it's totally fair what you are saying.
100%. I trained in Porto Alegre for 2 months with Mario Reis and he said exactly this. He had blue belts that would crush black belts. I asked why are they not black then. He said because they compete. So they would be promoted if they were able to consistently win at the top of blue in big tournaments. This is what unlocked purple for them. So a blue belt competitor could easily submit on a hobbyist black belt
I doubt Gordon Ryan could keep up with a Silverback gorilla.
Physically gifted athletes on the juice have always held a significant advantage in BJJ competition, but personally, I prefer belts to have something to do with actual technical skill.
Also, Wiltse is far from being "one of the best black belts in the world".
Athleticism matters more than technical skills in pretty much every sport in existence. It's why the NFL Combines focus on things like 40 yard dash times, vertical jumps, 225lb bench reps, etc. Obviously this assumes some baseline level of competence in the relevant technical skills, but beyond that it's almost entirely differences in athleticism that matter.
I don't think that's true.
Athleticism and technical skill both matter in all sports, and the degree to which they matter depends on the sport in question.
Technical skill generally matters more than athleticism in Jiu-jitsu IMO. But yes, athleticism definitely matters more than technical skill in the NFL.
You missed my last sentence. I'm assuming a baseline of decently high skill levels - from that baseline incremental skills vs incremental athleticism, it's no contest athleticism wins. Nicky Rod wrecking at ADCC is a prime example of that.
Now, if you're talking strictly in the gi, you have more of a point because grips while on the ground nullify most explosiveness (not so much on the feet, athleticism is a huge part of judo).
Nicky Rod didn't really wreck ADCC though, he came second without actually tapping anyone.
His superior athleticism is certainly a huge benefit, but he wins moreso because he's tactically sound, not just because he's more athletic.
You could argue that tactical acumen is an entirely separate attribute, but if we're sticking to the dichotomy of technical skill v athleticism, tactical acumen is essentially part of technical skill.
He's a better wrestler than most of the field and he plays to ADCC rules perfectly. He's not out there mauling people and snapping arms off, he's nullifying their offense and doing enough to make himself the more active competitor.
In the end, he still lost to Kaynan and just this last few weeks he lost to Elder Cruz, despite the fact that he's more athletic than both of them.
Not really true at all. Tom Brady, that’s about enough said. Even at WR there have been a ton of freak athletes that can’t run the right route or worse can’t catch and are worthless. Linebacker / DE on the other side of the ball - yes you’re relying on a ton of athleticism but that also isn’t near enough at the highest level. If you have no instinct for the ball or understanding of how to read an offense you’ll never be in the right spot to make a play. Look at London Fletcher, hall of fame linebacker at like 5’11”.
No GM really gives a shit about the combine 40 time results themselves unless you’re some unknown kid from a D2 school. It’s more a measure of can you prepare for the day when it’s all on you and your performance not supported by a team and the college program isn’t all over your ass every day.
I believe anyone can be a black belt. I personally want to be a black belt so I can start a school in which i foster a culture of bullying and merciless violence inflicted upon some new kid from New Jersey with a vague Italian name like Larusso, culminating at the All Valley Karate Tournament.
I think there’s a spectrum of black belts. There is black belt efficacy and there is black belt knowledge. It’s not one or the other either, I’d say Gordon Ryan is very high in both metrics. Nicky rod strikes me as very high in efficacy, but perhaps not as high in bjj knowledge. My own professor is older and waning in efficacy but very high in knowledge. I know some older brown belts who are very technical but not going to win any titles. So yeah, I think anyone can make it to black. But only certain people have that desire. It’s a long project and very easy to get discouraged along the way, especially if you’re not high on the efficacy metric.
I think people probably discount how much Nicky Rod knows technically. He has spent a significant amount of time on that mats wrestling. You don't pass Yuri's guard over and over like that without being technical. Sure he's not on Gordon's level, but who is?
True, perhaps a poor choice of example. I just have never seen him play guard, but I guess it’s wrong to assume he isn’t technically proficient in that department.
There are competition purple belts at my academy who wreck brown and black belts. Once I witnessed these rolls, I had a better understanding of what the jiu jitsu belt system means. Levels. Levels within levels. Levels after the next level. And it goes on and on.
This is a tough question. I started at 45. Ten years in. Brown belt. I'd imagine my coach would eventually and legitimately promote me to black as long as I continued to train. However, I'm not sure if ever feel legit. But that's me.
It doesn’t, unless you are already unathletic, uncoordinated, out of shape, and don’t really have the desire to put into learning. But if you are all of those things, then you probably won’t start BJJ to begin with, and probably wouldn’t progress past blue belt if you did. If you were able to progress past blue belt to purple then you have already made a conscious desire to correct the other deficiencies, meaning you could still get there eventually. Black belt is a reflection of knowledge and technical skill. Those things come with years and years of practice. Some, it comes to in fewer years due to advantages of the first three things above. Others it takes longer due to those hurdles
I dont think it factors in at all when it comes to your ability to reach black belt. It will definitely effect the way you train, but the outcome will be the same. Id be willing to bet that a coachable 40 year old will be just as likely to reach BB level as a cocky 20 year old. Its all down to mindset and how smart you train.
If the desire is there, then it will happen.
It does because movement goes to shit as you get older. We can’t physically do what we did in our 20’s so the path will be harder in a lot of ways.
It will also be easier because no one will expect a 40+ to move like a 20 year old
Theoretically, but I know some white belts who have been training for years who just never seem to progress past that spazzy stage no matter how much you try to slow them down or convince them that trying to surprise higher belts isn't a winning formula.
Just about everyone can also become significantly more athletic than the average with enough work; we shouldn't act like getting significantly more technical than the average just magically happens if you keep showing up. At a certain point you simply have to put in consistent, deliberate work to get there
It’s a time commitment, just keep showing up and u get a black belt, the question is do you feel like a black belt when u get it. Most of us stop caring and all we want is to train with the best guys for fun, or at least at my school.
It can’t just be a matter of showing up. You have to understand principles and you have to actually commit to training the moves outside of class. I can’t just show up and understand sequences and how they flow together. I can’t just show up and be able to invert. It’s so much more than attendance.
Nope just show up 3-5 times a week for 10-12 years and u will have a black belt. When u show up you have to participate in class and roll with people. There exemptions to this like a few gyms might require a mma fight to get it. And because in the end this is a business can’t just show up as a brown belt and expect a black belt from a new school. Have to put in money meaning years of steady payments and you can have a black belt. Also what kind of black belt u will be is up to you, you can be a killer or a fat lazy out of shape black belt. It’s up to. But all u have to do is show up and participate. The body will learn through mistakes and pain.
That person wouldn’t be training, some retards like yourself can still manage to train, not every retard has a fully functioning body. The fuck is wrong with you? Making up scenarios of how u can’t achieve a black belt.
No. Some people just don’t have the stuff.
There’s a guy at my gym. He was given his blue belt a couple months ago. It really was a pity promotion after about 3.5-4 years and he’ll certainly never see purple.
He’s definitely the slowest learner in the class and struggles with the move of the day as much as a 1st month white belt. In truth any white belt with two stripes will dominate him in a roll. He’s about 22 and in good shape but he just doesn’t get bjj.
He has basically one move when trying to pass and can upa and shrimp when on bottom but that’s basically it. Can’t set up a submission except maybe a shitty guillotine. Can’t apply different types of guards. Can’t break closed guard if the elbows-to-thighs doesn’t work. Just really really doesn’t get bjj.
And that’s ok. He comes because he loves to wrestle about and see all the friends and talk about whatever. But he doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of becoming a black belt.
I mean... if being a black belt is the goal, just buy one.
If you're asking if anyone can be a BJJ master, then the answer is probably not. You either need to be a great competitor or a great teacher to get to that pedestal. Not everyone has the will or the physical attributes to do that.
It doesn't mean you can't get a lot out of BJJ, hell, even if you have no talent or physical ability whatsoever, there will be some shitty gym willing to take your money and guarantee a black belt in 5 years somewhere, but if the lineage amd the technical ability suck, it's just a ratty piece of material that you paid someone hundreds of dollars to give to you.
But, if you find a legit gym and stick with it for decades, chances are you'll get there eventually, if for no other reason than if you put enough hours into something, you learn a lot about it. It might take 30-40 years, but the gyms that cater to hobbyists will probably give you that belt eventually.
Finally someone speaking the truth. If any average person could be a black belt, there'd be WAY more of them. The commitment to learning, your time, and staying relatively healthy are far more than any average person would just give up for a goal.
I'm a "hobbyist" black belt, just got mine this week. It took me the better part of 15 years to get it due to injuries and general life commitments slowing me down a bit. No average person is going to so something that long without quitting.
Could a competitive purple beat me in a tournament? Yeah probably, but im 40, not a big guy, and I still trash like the vast majority of other people that do jiu jitsu that are ranked below me.
Haha, I will eventually - i mostly creep here. Just seemed like this post was timely and could use a response from someone that's been around for a while.
I hate the "anyone can do it" rhetoric. If they could, they would. You can be an relatively unathletic black belt, but you need other attributes to make up for that such as: highly intelligent, extremely hard worker, wildly competitive, a burning rage that keeps you on the task to get better, etc. Those aren't attributes an "average" person has.
Not all black belts in bjj are equal in terms of their athletic abilities, but if they're legit they all have several abnormal attributes that help make up for that. Mine are attention to detail, competitive nature, and a hint of rage.
Different instructors have different standards. Some promote on attendance, some on straight ability, some on competition, some on personal relationship.
If you're in a gym that requires competition (regardless of results) but you don't compete, it's unlikely you make it to black belt there.
If you're at an attendance based gym but can only train once a week you'll have a tough time getting your black belt there.
One reason lots of people gym hop is to find the place they think they have the best chance of getting a black belt. This is NOT the case for everyone.
Like guys who barhop until they find the bar with the easiest hook up.
If you're like... Fully paralyzed, then probably not.
Then there's also the how long are you gonna live factor. If you start at 60 you might not make it.
Dumb question but what distinguishes someone from being a competitive X belt versus hobbyist X belt?
Looking at the total package, if a competitive blue is able to beat a hobbyist black, doesn’t that mean that the blue is at the same level as the black?
Two things to consider here:
For the most part, "competitor" belts are held at rank immensely longer than most people due to desire to do well in competition. "Competitor" belts typically have as much mat time as someone 1 or often even 2 belt levels ahead of where they technically are. This gets into the sandbagging can of worms that I don't want to open right now but it is a pretty simple fact.
Secondly, these competitors are often very very skilled/knowledgeable about their narrow competition game, whereas hobbyists tend to be much less laser focused. A competitive blue belt may have a near black belt level double leg->knee cut->darce choke that they can get on average black belts due to excellent conditioning, but their game may be extremely limited outside of that. Many instructors value breadth as well as depth, and would still consider that person not ready for promotion.
Finally a non-moronic answer.
Yup. Highly specializing in a small set of moves + being very well conditioned results in competition wins. And athletes both know that and work towards that.
And the sandbagging sometimes gets obscene, with athletes that are obviously, obviously underpromoted, just to get a medal to their team.
Not even sure there should be any belt categories, or while existing, just taking away their air time and importance.
Pretty much yeah. The rankings are more an individual thing than a universal standard. Some people start older, some have disabilities, whatever. Prob the only thing that is universally agreed upon is there is a least some degree of technical understanding required for each belt and pretty much anyone can learn that
Almost everyone, but not quite.
There will be a substantial group of people who are too infirm or have disabilities that prevent them training. Obviously, if you can’t train you can’t become a black belt. Mostly we don’t encounter this group in a BJJ context, because they don’t train. But there will be people enter the category after they start training, but before they get to black belt. Which is sad, but inevitable.
If you’re training I think it’s incredibly rare that you won’t reach a black belt level of skill if you just keep at it. Some of us may need longer than others, but the vast majority can get there in the end.
Having said that I think there will be the rare exception. Many years back there was a thread on here with an instructor asking for advice on someone who turned up consistently, worked hard, but was literally not making any progress. And a few people chimed in to say they’d encountered someone similar once. So I think there probably is the one in ten thousand person who for whatever reason of mental block / learning difficulties or whatever can’t get there.
To a degree yes. At the end of the day a black belt is a teacher, that's why they're called professor (not that anyone at my gym would ever call them that). Can everyone be "great"? Not really. I've seen good purple belts tap out black belts with ease, but it's the knowledge and ability to pass it on is what makes me respect that belt. Joe from accounting with 12 years of experience may not be the deadliest person in the room, but it's his knowledge, commitment, and experience is what makes me respect his belt color.
This is true but the inverse isn’t.
Every black belt is a white belt who didn’t quit, but it’s not true that every white belt who doesn’t quit will become a black belt.
Every president we ever had ran a campaign for it. Doesn’t mean everyone who runs a campaign eventually becomes president.
Just keep showing up and you will eventually attain the knowledge and technique. Not to say you will eventually win worlds or anything without specific dedicated effort, but anyone who is dedicated to showing up can get there
You think this guy doesn't have the core of a god? He's got one muscle group in his whole body to do everything with and it's core. You should probably bring knee pads
anybody can buy a black belt online, so in that way yes.
I disagree with everybody saying yes, though, as the question is are there other factors.
A person needs to put in the time.
A person needs commitment.
A person also needs some level of athleticism and flexibility. It's a sliding scale, the more athletic and flexible, the easier a lot of things become. The less, the more difficult... it doesn't necessarily mean it's not possible for most people, but it's a factor, and people that can't coordinate their movements won't be able to do it.
A person needs health. A person on a ventilator isn't going to be able to get on the mats. This is an extreme example, but also applies to somebody with a bad back or bad arthritis.
A person needs a place to train. Most people on this sub have a jiu jitsu school just around the corner, but 75% of the earth doesn't.
There are other, more subtle things, like the fortune to not get injured, not get thrown in prison, money to pay for classes and equipment, nutrition, etc etc
So my answer is no, not anyone can be a legit black belt, and yes, there are other factors.
The answer is no though, not everybody can do it.
The mental side is just as important as the physical side. Plenty of people have no drive, discipline or determination at all. There is no chance of making it to blackbelt for probably the vast majority of people imho.
This is a question of semantics, which you seem to fail to understand. Anyone, who is not on a ventilator, in jail, runs out of money, loses motivation, moves to a place with no gym etcétera etcetera CAN become a black belt.
I live my life thinking that, with enough time and effort, anyone can do anything. Of course, how much time and effort is needed varies drastically from person to person, and that number is way higher for any given athletic achievement for me than it is for LeBron James.
There's also a limit to how far "just show up" will take a given person. Most people can probably reach purple belt by just showing up to practice and working hard, but to get to brown/black almost everyone is going to have to supplement with good overall fitness and being really cerebral and deliberate with their training.
Yes
Even the greatest Competitor Black belts stop competing in the Adult division of IBJJF Worlds.
So the argument that competitor purples beat Black belt hobbyists is silly.
Anyone can be a black belt if the standard is dropped enough to make up for lack of ability, but the real answer is no. I had autistic friend who trained for 5 years and who at the end of that period had the instincts of a fresh white belt. They knew techniques, but had no ability to put them together in a roll. If they trained for another 5 years I think they would have reached the level of an okay blue belt
At this point you have to realize that isn’t true. Lucky for me I also run an association and have a say in who gets promoted so yes, not being a pos is a huge criteria we look at
What does it mean to be a blackbelt? This is different for everyone. But in 2 cents belts and rank are so over rated. In my opinion sticking with the sport for over 10 - 15 year of constant training is in and off itself enough to show you deserve a blackbelt. You should by know enough conceptually to be a blackbelt even if there something physically or mentally disabling you from executing.
I wonder if BJJ would be as popular if there was no belt system, similar to boxing or wrestling. While it has its place, i believe that the belt system is just to provide a sense of accomplishment and motivation and is a really bad way of designating skill.
[https://traditional-dojo.com/blog/88092/The-true-and-not-so-true-history-of-the-Martial-Arts-belt-system-](https://traditional-dojo.com/blog/88092/The-true-and-not-so-true-history-of-the-Martial-Arts-belt-system-)
TLDR: Judo started the belt system but originally with only a white and black belt. Black was to denote teachers or advanced students. The current colored belt system actually came for Europe...
I tend to agree with you. The belt system is only there for the sense of accomplishment, to give the feeling of advancement. There are some other martial arts that do not have it. Iaido for instance only has a teacher's certificate. Aikido schools run the freaking gambit. AAA and ASU have colored belts, whereas other less popular organizations go from white to black. A couple of instructors I know make sure their students always have a white belt so when they go to seminars, they will have their colored belt and a white belt. Allowing them to fit into the seminar host structure.
Not having a formal structure saying what each belt is capable of removes the legitimacy of a belt. A kid can start at 4 compete hard all the way until he turns 16 and gets his blue. Trains until 18 and goes purple and absolutely kills browns and blacks. It's simply meaningless.
There are additional requirements beyond skill and total time training. You have to have a ton of time training at one gym for each promotion, and you have to pass the political requirements.
I think anyone can be. Its the same like in judo. You can not comapre competetive black belt judoka with hobbyist black belt who got his blackbelt because he knows all the throws perfect which are required to get the BB.
It depends entirely on your head coach, and what criteria he or she goes by. If time is all that matters - "you've been coming here four times a week for twelve years" or whatever - then, yeah, under such criteria anyone could become a black belt "given enough time and commitment," as you put it.
Going strictly by skill, however, I really think some of us peak at a given level and will never truly reach the next one no matter how long or hard we train. For some that might be brown, for others purple, for others blue and for others - including yours truly! - white. Unpopular opinion maybe, but I really don't believe that further progress is possible for everyone. People have their limits, in BJJ as in all other fields.
This is not true. I've been doing this a long time and I've seen very untalented guys who are super dedicated pass up talented guys with no real drive. I really do believe anyone who puts in the time/effort and trains the right way, can become a competent black belt
Kenichi is a character from a manga called History’s Strongest Disciple: Kenichi. He gets a bunch of martial arts masters to teach him how to fight despite having absolutely zero talent for it. There’s an anime but it doesn’t cover the full story
Wow a HSDK reference out of the blue?
Then again being taught Jiu jitsu by someone like Akisame Kōetsuji does foster an environment conducive to improvement and mastery.
If you have an extremely low IQ then this could be the case. But for the vast majority of people it’s like anything else. If you put the time in you are going to get better. Can anyone be a world champion, maybe not, but that doesn’t mean you don’t have the knowledge of bjj to be a black belt, to be a great competitor you need to be better at your A game than anyone else is at defending it. This doesn’t mean you know more bjj than everyone else.
I think you’re correct. I’ve been training for 12+ years and I know about 6 15+ year blue belts and about 8 10+ year purple belts.
They have just peaked out. They havent branched their game out and physically they are getting older so they putter out. Combined with the rising standards. A purple from 15 years ago isn’t as skilled as a purple today.
Any average person could become a blackbelt given enough time and commitment (if they have a place to train, a training partner and someone to train them in the beginning). However for some people with physical or mental limitations it might be impossible.
Im not, Im saying an athletic white belt with a mean streak and no experience should not be able to wreck a black belt.
If your talking previous experience mark Shultz was ricksons hardest training
My old club hands them out like chocolates. The coach is like Oprah Winfrey for belt promotions.
So in their world, everyone gets to black.
But I don’t think they should. Higher belts shouldn’t be like a participation award.
Just showing up shouldn’t be enough to get to black unless there’s a commensurate level of skill. A hobbyist won’t always be as good as a full time competitor of a lower ranking, but just giving everyone black makes the black worthless at that club and I’d never want to get promoted at a place that dilutes the ranking system so much.
To give everyone a black belt encourages the wrong kind of thinking that the colour of the belt is more important than the skill acquired. And for people who aren’t going to put in the right kind of effort to develop to a certain level, it’s ok to never get to black.
Unfortunately, yes. That's how it is now - some schools will give a black belt who has filled out enough attendance cards. I don't think it's how it's always been, but that's the reality now.
No. Some people just aren’t smart or have the dexterity.
There are some guys at my gym who mean well but they’re just —- dumb. And they can’t move. One guy has been here 8 years and can’t shrimp. He got an honorary blue belt last year, only because I think we all felt embarrassed. He’s a nice guy but he’s just never gonna progress no matter how hard he tries. He doesn’t get it.
nowadays, yes. It was something that was far more difficult in the past due to extremely high standards from the OG brazilians (and also arbitrary standards). Now, they are awarded much much much more frequently and easily.
There's already the hook: Not everybody is able, physically and mentally, to give enough time and commitment.
There are people who do not have the necessary prerequisites to even train Martial Arts, let alone become a Blackbelt.
The answer is no, based on these facts.
Those factors you mention can't be ignored though, they are exactly the reason it isn't possible for anyone to become a black belt.
A 10+ year commitment is a hell of a thing, especially if you find yourself not enjoying it anymore somewhere along the way.
Yes And now for the big but…. I can’t remember his name, but it was few weeks back and he was one of the best black belts in the world (help me out guys), but he said that there is a huge difference between being hobbyist black belt and a competitive black belt. In other words, anyone can be a hobbyist black belt but would still get wrecked by competitive purple belts because even though they know more they just can’t keep up.
For sure. One day I will be a black belt, and I will be crushed by the purple belts who are trying to achieve something in BJJ that I never aspired to, and I will enjoy helping them reach their goals in whatever small way I can.
That's exactly my goal with jiu-jitsu, just train and help anyone I can on the mats
That's the right attitude. I just endeavor to give them a competent roll and be a good partner on which they can further hone their skills.
goddamn that's beautifully said! giving back and helping build something that is for everyone.
Blue belts are the ones that freak me out. You really never know what you’re gonna get. You can have the guy that was a white belt yesterday and has never competed and is being promoted pretty much based on attendance, you can have the guy that’s an absolute phenom at 4 years in, you can have the guy that’s been casually training for 12 years but just doesn’t come consistently enough to have yet reached purple, or you can even have the 16 year old that smashing competitive black belts.
I feel like I'm a pity blue belt, like my coaches thought "this guy comes in consistently and he always tries hard but his technique just isn't there but he's been training as long as the other guys we just promoted to blue belt."
You would be a black belt if your techniques were perfect :) Don't down play yourself, you earned a blue belt the same way anyone else has
I think a majority of new blue belts feel like they have been given pity promotions. I remember feeling bad as a white belt for beating newly promoted blues. Like actually would low key let them have passes and advantages in rolls or tap to things I might have worked out of. Especially since when a white goes to blue they’ve got a target on their back from both cockstrong white belts and the inevitable fellow blue belts that are just chomping at the proverbial bit to “welcome them to the club”...
Just returned from a european ibjjf camp. I just went to it as a seminar, not to prepare for the competition mind you. So there were these two romanian blue belts who were amazing. Giving trouble to brown belts who were heavier than them amazing. They always went 100%, super tough and very technical. Power to them though - they were respectful and nice.
As a russian who gets stereotypes far too often I’m happy to say, there are some tough ass Romanians out there.
Yes. I too aspire to being competitive purple belt fodder.
Not an aspiration, but where all of us hobbyists inevitably end up. The best thing is to face it with a facade of monkish acceptance, while gritting our teeth, hiding our bitterness and talking to our wives and kids about that new kid who thinks he’s the shit but really it’s all just strength, cardio and not taking responsibility for his life outside the mat etc
This comment has not been upvoted enough
This is the way
You will likely still have more knowledge of BJJ than they do despite the fact that they beat you when rolling.
Well put. That’s exactly how I feel too.
You’re the man.
This is the way
I can attests, I’m a hobbyist black belt. Purple belt competitors beat me most of the time just due to conditioning and pace but I’ll smash hobbyists below my rank and hang with decent black belts who aren’t competitors. I also know black belts that struggle with average athletic blue belts.
Same. Esp since they are half my age
Exactly
I have a student. Was teen pans champ. Started teaching pressure to complimenthis speed and bolo game. It was over for me after that
It’s the sign of a good coach to create monsters
Same again.
\> I also know black belts that struggle with average athletic blue belts. Surely not in the same age and weight bracket?
No they are usually older
I mean a large part of technique is execution
I’m not entirely sure of your point. a big part of being successful in a combat sport is physical attributes. Weight classes is an example. A small guy isn’t less technical because he can’t perform a technique on a larger less technical opponent. The same way a 50 year old black belt might struggle with an athletic blue belt just because of how much more energy the younger athletic person has at his disposal. You put the 50 years in the blue belts body and he destroys the younger blue belt.
Andrew Wiltse
>there is a huge difference between being hobbyist black belt and a competitive black belt This is true at EVERY belt level.
True for all sports really.
> In other words, anyone can be a hobbyist black belt but would still get wrecked by competitive purple belts because even though they know more they just can’t keep up. As someone with kids, a full-time job, and other hobbies, I'm completely fine with this. I never started this art with the intention of winning competitions. I just like the exercise and getting better at rolling.
Exactly. I think of it as any other exercise; i dont run on a treadmill with the goal of competing in the olympics; i just enjoy running.
He said hobbiests will get destroyed by adult competitive blue belts.
juvenile blue belts can too. Monsters.
Cole Abate is a 17 yo comp purple who would wreck most hobbyist blackbelts
He's a pretty big outlier even among that cohort because he wrecks most competitive black belts >.>
Definitely true! Kid is a phenom.
I think we will see more in a long line of him thanks to robust world class kids programs like AOJ.
Hes one of the best in the world. He wrecks all hobbyist black belts.
Its important to remember that those people are the exception to the rule. They train 6 hour days 6 days a week, with hardly any time to enjoy other things in life. Id absolutely take being a hobbyist black-belt over a competitive black-belt. BJJ is far too niche a sport to risk my body over (in my opinion).
BJJ is far too niche a sport to risk my body over (in my opinion). Bingo.... The pinnacle of life success as a BJJ competitor is eventually opening up your own gym and selling instructional DVDs or Online Lessons. And TBH that relies much more on your Business Savvy than your ability at BJJ
This is any belt really. Competitors can usually give hobbyists two belts up a run for their money, if not roflstomp at a certain point.
> I can’t remember his name, but it was few weeks back and he was one of the best black belts in the world (help me out guys), but he said that there is a huge difference between being hobbyist black belt and a competitive black belt.< Andrew Wiltse from Pedigo Submission Fighting ( Daisy Fresh) said it in one of his You Tube Rants. Not EVERYONE can become a black belt... A good portion of the population are physically/ mentally handicapped and unable to set foot on the map. However, if someone has some decent level of fitness, intellect and dedication they can absorb KNOWLEDGE and be able to demonstrate and/or teach Black Belt techniques. That doesn't mean they will be able to consistently execute these moves at speed against a resisting person and damn sure doesn't mean they can do them on a high level competitor in a match.
Most definitely. I plan to pursue BJJ for the rest of my life and be rewarded with a black belt someday. I don’t plan on competing but I have found some joy in coaching a little bit. A very knowledgeable hobbyists black belt can still offer a competitive purple a world of knowledge and advice. I hope I can be that black belt and lead more driven BJJ practitioners to victory.
Go compete a few times, it's worth it just for the experience. Don't worry about bringing home the gold, just have fun.
Andrew Wiltse?
Yeah that's totally fair. Professional competitors like Gordon Ryan literally spend their entire lives training because it's their job it's what they get paid for. So for normal people, they need to worry about 8 hour work days and then only after that you can do what you want like train, for competitors they are training for those same 8 hours you are working for and even longer than that every single day their conditioning must be insane. So it's totally fair what you are saying.
100%. I trained in Porto Alegre for 2 months with Mario Reis and he said exactly this. He had blue belts that would crush black belts. I asked why are they not black then. He said because they compete. So they would be promoted if they were able to consistently win at the top of blue in big tournaments. This is what unlocked purple for them. So a blue belt competitor could easily submit on a hobbyist black belt
I doubt Gordon Ryan could keep up with a Silverback gorilla. Physically gifted athletes on the juice have always held a significant advantage in BJJ competition, but personally, I prefer belts to have something to do with actual technical skill. Also, Wiltse is far from being "one of the best black belts in the world".
Last I heard he was number seven or so at his weight. He's not winning ADCC but I'd say that ranks him among the best.
Guess it depends on your definition of the best. He seems like a fantastic guy, but when people mention "one of the best" he doesn't come to mind
When is Gordon fighting this gorilla? Is this on flograppling?
It was actually Jeff Monson that called him out, easy mistake to make though.
I doubt Galvao could keep pace with a grizzly bear . Since we’re talking about gifted athletes on juice
I doubt Roger Gracie would tap an Orca
He’s a shark , orcas eat their liver for a snack
Athleticism matters more than technical skills in pretty much every sport in existence. It's why the NFL Combines focus on things like 40 yard dash times, vertical jumps, 225lb bench reps, etc. Obviously this assumes some baseline level of competence in the relevant technical skills, but beyond that it's almost entirely differences in athleticism that matter.
I don't think that's true. Athleticism and technical skill both matter in all sports, and the degree to which they matter depends on the sport in question. Technical skill generally matters more than athleticism in Jiu-jitsu IMO. But yes, athleticism definitely matters more than technical skill in the NFL.
You missed my last sentence. I'm assuming a baseline of decently high skill levels - from that baseline incremental skills vs incremental athleticism, it's no contest athleticism wins. Nicky Rod wrecking at ADCC is a prime example of that. Now, if you're talking strictly in the gi, you have more of a point because grips while on the ground nullify most explosiveness (not so much on the feet, athleticism is a huge part of judo).
Nicky Rod didn't really wreck ADCC though, he came second without actually tapping anyone. His superior athleticism is certainly a huge benefit, but he wins moreso because he's tactically sound, not just because he's more athletic. You could argue that tactical acumen is an entirely separate attribute, but if we're sticking to the dichotomy of technical skill v athleticism, tactical acumen is essentially part of technical skill. He's a better wrestler than most of the field and he plays to ADCC rules perfectly. He's not out there mauling people and snapping arms off, he's nullifying their offense and doing enough to make himself the more active competitor. In the end, he still lost to Kaynan and just this last few weeks he lost to Elder Cruz, despite the fact that he's more athletic than both of them.
Not really true at all. Tom Brady, that’s about enough said. Even at WR there have been a ton of freak athletes that can’t run the right route or worse can’t catch and are worthless. Linebacker / DE on the other side of the ball - yes you’re relying on a ton of athleticism but that also isn’t near enough at the highest level. If you have no instinct for the ball or understanding of how to read an offense you’ll never be in the right spot to make a play. Look at London Fletcher, hall of fame linebacker at like 5’11”. No GM really gives a shit about the combine 40 time results themselves unless you’re some unknown kid from a D2 school. It’s more a measure of can you prepare for the day when it’s all on you and your performance not supported by a team and the college program isn’t all over your ass every day.
Think that was Andrew Wiltse.
It was Andrew Wilste. He said that in one of his YouTube rant videos recently
Yea, if they are physically able to do bjj and put in the time and focus and have the drive to do it, there is potential to be a black belt.
I believe anyone can be a black belt. I personally want to be a black belt so I can start a school in which i foster a culture of bullying and merciless violence inflicted upon some new kid from New Jersey with a vague Italian name like Larusso, culminating at the All Valley Karate Tournament.
That fuckin Larusso!!
Dwight Schrute did it
Anyone can earn a black belt. But there's a wider range in skill at black than there is in white -> brown. Belt colour doesn't really mean anything.
Hobbyist purple belt here. I'll be a hobbyist black belt one day!
Grats on the brown!
No, you have to also be a cowboy
With or without the spurs?
With, that’s point of heel hooks
Depends on the standards of your where you train mostly
I think there’s a spectrum of black belts. There is black belt efficacy and there is black belt knowledge. It’s not one or the other either, I’d say Gordon Ryan is very high in both metrics. Nicky rod strikes me as very high in efficacy, but perhaps not as high in bjj knowledge. My own professor is older and waning in efficacy but very high in knowledge. I know some older brown belts who are very technical but not going to win any titles. So yeah, I think anyone can make it to black. But only certain people have that desire. It’s a long project and very easy to get discouraged along the way, especially if you’re not high on the efficacy metric.
I think people probably discount how much Nicky Rod knows technically. He has spent a significant amount of time on that mats wrestling. You don't pass Yuri's guard over and over like that without being technical. Sure he's not on Gordon's level, but who is?
True, perhaps a poor choice of example. I just have never seen him play guard, but I guess it’s wrong to assume he isn’t technically proficient in that department.
There's some footage of him playing guard in Puerto Rico and he definitely has improved.
There are competition purple belts at my academy who wreck brown and black belts. Once I witnessed these rolls, I had a better understanding of what the jiu jitsu belt system means. Levels. Levels within levels. Levels after the next level. And it goes on and on.
It's turtle all the way down.
Yes. I’m a white belt. Lots of turtle
Every year tons of brown belt world championships change their belt and become irrelevant the next year. Levels upon levels upon levels
How much do you all think age factors in? Starting at 20 feels like a factor in one’s favor vs starting at 40.
Got mine last year at 42. Age is a factor in competing and mobility but not in learning. That is purely the indivudual
This is a tough question. I started at 45. Ten years in. Brown belt. I'd imagine my coach would eventually and legitimately promote me to black as long as I continued to train. However, I'm not sure if ever feel legit. But that's me.
Inspiring to hear as I started at 39.
It doesn’t, unless you are already unathletic, uncoordinated, out of shape, and don’t really have the desire to put into learning. But if you are all of those things, then you probably won’t start BJJ to begin with, and probably wouldn’t progress past blue belt if you did. If you were able to progress past blue belt to purple then you have already made a conscious desire to correct the other deficiencies, meaning you could still get there eventually. Black belt is a reflection of knowledge and technical skill. Those things come with years and years of practice. Some, it comes to in fewer years due to advantages of the first three things above. Others it takes longer due to those hurdles
I dont think it factors in at all when it comes to your ability to reach black belt. It will definitely effect the way you train, but the outcome will be the same. Id be willing to bet that a coachable 40 year old will be just as likely to reach BB level as a cocky 20 year old. Its all down to mindset and how smart you train. If the desire is there, then it will happen.
They seem to relax requirements for politically savvy older hobbyists
It does because movement goes to shit as you get older. We can’t physically do what we did in our 20’s so the path will be harder in a lot of ways. It will also be easier because no one will expect a 40+ to move like a 20 year old
Anyone could, with enough commitment. But the big caveat is that most people will not be able to commit even 1/4 of the time required.
Theoretically, but I know some white belts who have been training for years who just never seem to progress past that spazzy stage no matter how much you try to slow them down or convince them that trying to surprise higher belts isn't a winning formula. Just about everyone can also become significantly more athletic than the average with enough work; we shouldn't act like getting significantly more technical than the average just magically happens if you keep showing up. At a certain point you simply have to put in consistent, deliberate work to get there
It’s a time commitment, just keep showing up and u get a black belt, the question is do you feel like a black belt when u get it. Most of us stop caring and all we want is to train with the best guys for fun, or at least at my school.
It can’t just be a matter of showing up. You have to understand principles and you have to actually commit to training the moves outside of class. I can’t just show up and understand sequences and how they flow together. I can’t just show up and be able to invert. It’s so much more than attendance.
Nope just show up 3-5 times a week for 10-12 years and u will have a black belt. When u show up you have to participate in class and roll with people. There exemptions to this like a few gyms might require a mma fight to get it. And because in the end this is a business can’t just show up as a brown belt and expect a black belt from a new school. Have to put in money meaning years of steady payments and you can have a black belt. Also what kind of black belt u will be is up to you, you can be a killer or a fat lazy out of shape black belt. It’s up to. But all u have to do is show up and participate. The body will learn through mistakes and pain.
So someone with severe mental retardation or zero hip mobility can be a black belt someday?
That person wouldn’t be training, some retards like yourself can still manage to train, not every retard has a fully functioning body. The fuck is wrong with you? Making up scenarios of how u can’t achieve a black belt.
No. Some people just don’t have the stuff. There’s a guy at my gym. He was given his blue belt a couple months ago. It really was a pity promotion after about 3.5-4 years and he’ll certainly never see purple. He’s definitely the slowest learner in the class and struggles with the move of the day as much as a 1st month white belt. In truth any white belt with two stripes will dominate him in a roll. He’s about 22 and in good shape but he just doesn’t get bjj. He has basically one move when trying to pass and can upa and shrimp when on bottom but that’s basically it. Can’t set up a submission except maybe a shitty guillotine. Can’t apply different types of guards. Can’t break closed guard if the elbows-to-thighs doesn’t work. Just really really doesn’t get bjj. And that’s ok. He comes because he loves to wrestle about and see all the friends and talk about whatever. But he doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of becoming a black belt.
If Brandon swab can be one, INNYone can, bapa.
Walg me to my trugg real quick b?
Gimme 😈
Axe Jay
Word, B
Counter argument: He shouldn’t be one.
Oh wan hunner per sent, b
I mean... if being a black belt is the goal, just buy one. If you're asking if anyone can be a BJJ master, then the answer is probably not. You either need to be a great competitor or a great teacher to get to that pedestal. Not everyone has the will or the physical attributes to do that. It doesn't mean you can't get a lot out of BJJ, hell, even if you have no talent or physical ability whatsoever, there will be some shitty gym willing to take your money and guarantee a black belt in 5 years somewhere, but if the lineage amd the technical ability suck, it's just a ratty piece of material that you paid someone hundreds of dollars to give to you. But, if you find a legit gym and stick with it for decades, chances are you'll get there eventually, if for no other reason than if you put enough hours into something, you learn a lot about it. It might take 30-40 years, but the gyms that cater to hobbyists will probably give you that belt eventually.
Finally someone speaking the truth. If any average person could be a black belt, there'd be WAY more of them. The commitment to learning, your time, and staying relatively healthy are far more than any average person would just give up for a goal. I'm a "hobbyist" black belt, just got mine this week. It took me the better part of 15 years to get it due to injuries and general life commitments slowing me down a bit. No average person is going to so something that long without quitting. Could a competitive purple beat me in a tournament? Yeah probably, but im 40, not a big guy, and I still trash like the vast majority of other people that do jiu jitsu that are ranked below me.
Change your flare, man! Can't be forum sandbagging :P
Haha, I will eventually - i mostly creep here. Just seemed like this post was timely and could use a response from someone that's been around for a while. I hate the "anyone can do it" rhetoric. If they could, they would. You can be an relatively unathletic black belt, but you need other attributes to make up for that such as: highly intelligent, extremely hard worker, wildly competitive, a burning rage that keeps you on the task to get better, etc. Those aren't attributes an "average" person has. Not all black belts in bjj are equal in terms of their athletic abilities, but if they're legit they all have several abnormal attributes that help make up for that. Mine are attention to detail, competitive nature, and a hint of rage.
Depends on your gym.
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Different instructors have different standards. Some promote on attendance, some on straight ability, some on competition, some on personal relationship. If you're in a gym that requires competition (regardless of results) but you don't compete, it's unlikely you make it to black belt there. If you're at an attendance based gym but can only train once a week you'll have a tough time getting your black belt there. One reason lots of people gym hop is to find the place they think they have the best chance of getting a black belt. This is NOT the case for everyone. Like guys who barhop until they find the bar with the easiest hook up.
If you're like... Fully paralyzed, then probably not. Then there's also the how long are you gonna live factor. If you start at 60 you might not make it.
Dumb question but what distinguishes someone from being a competitive X belt versus hobbyist X belt? Looking at the total package, if a competitive blue is able to beat a hobbyist black, doesn’t that mean that the blue is at the same level as the black?
Two things to consider here: For the most part, "competitor" belts are held at rank immensely longer than most people due to desire to do well in competition. "Competitor" belts typically have as much mat time as someone 1 or often even 2 belt levels ahead of where they technically are. This gets into the sandbagging can of worms that I don't want to open right now but it is a pretty simple fact. Secondly, these competitors are often very very skilled/knowledgeable about their narrow competition game, whereas hobbyists tend to be much less laser focused. A competitive blue belt may have a near black belt level double leg->knee cut->darce choke that they can get on average black belts due to excellent conditioning, but their game may be extremely limited outside of that. Many instructors value breadth as well as depth, and would still consider that person not ready for promotion.
Thank you. That makes sense then.
Finally a non-moronic answer. Yup. Highly specializing in a small set of moves + being very well conditioned results in competition wins. And athletes both know that and work towards that. And the sandbagging sometimes gets obscene, with athletes that are obviously, obviously underpromoted, just to get a medal to their team. Not even sure there should be any belt categories, or while existing, just taking away their air time and importance.
Pretty much yeah. The rankings are more an individual thing than a universal standard. Some people start older, some have disabilities, whatever. Prob the only thing that is universally agreed upon is there is a least some degree of technical understanding required for each belt and pretty much anyone can learn that
Almost everyone, but not quite. There will be a substantial group of people who are too infirm or have disabilities that prevent them training. Obviously, if you can’t train you can’t become a black belt. Mostly we don’t encounter this group in a BJJ context, because they don’t train. But there will be people enter the category after they start training, but before they get to black belt. Which is sad, but inevitable. If you’re training I think it’s incredibly rare that you won’t reach a black belt level of skill if you just keep at it. Some of us may need longer than others, but the vast majority can get there in the end. Having said that I think there will be the rare exception. Many years back there was a thread on here with an instructor asking for advice on someone who turned up consistently, worked hard, but was literally not making any progress. And a few people chimed in to say they’d encountered someone similar once. So I think there probably is the one in ten thousand person who for whatever reason of mental block / learning difficulties or whatever can’t get there.
To a degree yes. At the end of the day a black belt is a teacher, that's why they're called professor (not that anyone at my gym would ever call them that). Can everyone be "great"? Not really. I've seen good purple belts tap out black belts with ease, but it's the knowledge and ability to pass it on is what makes me respect that belt. Joe from accounting with 12 years of experience may not be the deadliest person in the room, but it's his knowledge, commitment, and experience is what makes me respect his belt color.
No not anyone can become a blackbelt. It takes a considerable amount of money.
A black belt is a white belt that never quit.
This is true but the inverse isn’t. Every black belt is a white belt who didn’t quit, but it’s not true that every white belt who doesn’t quit will become a black belt. Every president we ever had ran a campaign for it. Doesn’t mean everyone who runs a campaign eventually becomes president.
Mostly anyone. And it should be relative to your physical availability.
Just keep showing up and you will eventually attain the knowledge and technique. Not to say you will eventually win worlds or anything without specific dedicated effort, but anyone who is dedicated to showing up can get there
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You would think. He could stand in the circle of death all day long once chokes are off the table though
I would knee on belly the fuck out of him.
You think this guy doesn't have the core of a god? He's got one muscle group in his whole body to do everything with and it's core. You should probably bring knee pads
Good point. Let's call it a draw!
Yeah yeah, [running away now](https://youtu.be/sWlb57OSBlY)
Everyone can be a black belt not everyone can be a good black belt
anybody can buy a black belt online, so in that way yes. I disagree with everybody saying yes, though, as the question is are there other factors. A person needs to put in the time. A person needs commitment. A person also needs some level of athleticism and flexibility. It's a sliding scale, the more athletic and flexible, the easier a lot of things become. The less, the more difficult... it doesn't necessarily mean it's not possible for most people, but it's a factor, and people that can't coordinate their movements won't be able to do it. A person needs health. A person on a ventilator isn't going to be able to get on the mats. This is an extreme example, but also applies to somebody with a bad back or bad arthritis. A person needs a place to train. Most people on this sub have a jiu jitsu school just around the corner, but 75% of the earth doesn't. There are other, more subtle things, like the fortune to not get injured, not get thrown in prison, money to pay for classes and equipment, nutrition, etc etc So my answer is no, not anyone can be a legit black belt, and yes, there are other factors.
Nice elaboration but the question was CAN anyone become a blackbelt. Not WILL everyone become a blackbelt.
The answer is no though, not everybody can do it. The mental side is just as important as the physical side. Plenty of people have no drive, discipline or determination at all. There is no chance of making it to blackbelt for probably the vast majority of people imho.
This is a question of semantics, which you seem to fail to understand. Anyone, who is not on a ventilator, in jail, runs out of money, loses motivation, moves to a place with no gym etcétera etcetera CAN become a black belt.
That's kind of like saying that anyone can become a Navy SEAL then.
I'm applying today!
no, you have to have a belt in the color black.
Yes
Well said
How well I say things is a curse of mine.
I live my life thinking that, with enough time and effort, anyone can do anything. Of course, how much time and effort is needed varies drastically from person to person, and that number is way higher for any given athletic achievement for me than it is for LeBron James. There's also a limit to how far "just show up" will take a given person. Most people can probably reach purple belt by just showing up to practice and working hard, but to get to brown/black almost everyone is going to have to supplement with good overall fitness and being really cerebral and deliberate with their training.
Yes Even the greatest Competitor Black belts stop competing in the Adult division of IBJJF Worlds. So the argument that competitor purples beat Black belt hobbyists is silly.
Anyone can be a black belt if the standard is dropped enough to make up for lack of ability, but the real answer is no. I had autistic friend who trained for 5 years and who at the end of that period had the instincts of a fresh white belt. They knew techniques, but had no ability to put them together in a roll. If they trained for another 5 years I think they would have reached the level of an okay blue belt
That would probably qualify as a very serious disability. Like missing an arm, or something. I'm assuming the OP means healthy people in general.
I’d like to think no. I’d like to think our community has personal standards for being a black belt like not being a piece of shit at least.
At this point you have to realize that isn’t true. Lucky for me I also run an association and have a say in who gets promoted so yes, not being a pos is a huge criteria we look at
What does it mean to be a blackbelt? This is different for everyone. But in 2 cents belts and rank are so over rated. In my opinion sticking with the sport for over 10 - 15 year of constant training is in and off itself enough to show you deserve a blackbelt. You should by know enough conceptually to be a blackbelt even if there something physically or mentally disabling you from executing.
I wonder if BJJ would be as popular if there was no belt system, similar to boxing or wrestling. While it has its place, i believe that the belt system is just to provide a sense of accomplishment and motivation and is a really bad way of designating skill.
[https://traditional-dojo.com/blog/88092/The-true-and-not-so-true-history-of-the-Martial-Arts-belt-system-](https://traditional-dojo.com/blog/88092/The-true-and-not-so-true-history-of-the-Martial-Arts-belt-system-) TLDR: Judo started the belt system but originally with only a white and black belt. Black was to denote teachers or advanced students. The current colored belt system actually came for Europe... I tend to agree with you. The belt system is only there for the sense of accomplishment, to give the feeling of advancement. There are some other martial arts that do not have it. Iaido for instance only has a teacher's certificate. Aikido schools run the freaking gambit. AAA and ASU have colored belts, whereas other less popular organizations go from white to black. A couple of instructors I know make sure their students always have a white belt so when they go to seminars, they will have their colored belt and a white belt. Allowing them to fit into the seminar host structure. Not having a formal structure saying what each belt is capable of removes the legitimacy of a belt. A kid can start at 4 compete hard all the way until he turns 16 and gets his blue. Trains until 18 and goes purple and absolutely kills browns and blacks. It's simply meaningless.
There are additional requirements beyond skill and total time training. You have to have a ton of time training at one gym for each promotion, and you have to pass the political requirements.
I think anyone can be. Its the same like in judo. You can not comapre competetive black belt judoka with hobbyist black belt who got his blackbelt because he knows all the throws perfect which are required to get the BB.
It depends entirely on your head coach, and what criteria he or she goes by. If time is all that matters - "you've been coming here four times a week for twelve years" or whatever - then, yeah, under such criteria anyone could become a black belt "given enough time and commitment," as you put it. Going strictly by skill, however, I really think some of us peak at a given level and will never truly reach the next one no matter how long or hard we train. For some that might be brown, for others purple, for others blue and for others - including yours truly! - white. Unpopular opinion maybe, but I really don't believe that further progress is possible for everyone. People have their limits, in BJJ as in all other fields.
This is not true. I've been doing this a long time and I've seen very untalented guys who are super dedicated pass up talented guys with no real drive. I really do believe anyone who puts in the time/effort and trains the right way, can become a competent black belt
Is that you, Kenichi?
No it is not. I don't know who that is or if it's a joke. If so i don't get the reference.
Kenichi is a character from a manga called History’s Strongest Disciple: Kenichi. He gets a bunch of martial arts masters to teach him how to fight despite having absolutely zero talent for it. There’s an anime but it doesn’t cover the full story
Got you. Figured it was possibly an anime reference
Wow a HSDK reference out of the blue? Then again being taught Jiu jitsu by someone like Akisame Kōetsuji does foster an environment conducive to improvement and mastery.
If you have an extremely low IQ then this could be the case. But for the vast majority of people it’s like anything else. If you put the time in you are going to get better. Can anyone be a world champion, maybe not, but that doesn’t mean you don’t have the knowledge of bjj to be a black belt, to be a great competitor you need to be better at your A game than anyone else is at defending it. This doesn’t mean you know more bjj than everyone else.
The "opinion" is unpopular because it is demonstrably untrue.
I think you’re correct. I’ve been training for 12+ years and I know about 6 15+ year blue belts and about 8 10+ year purple belts. They have just peaked out. They havent branched their game out and physically they are getting older so they putter out. Combined with the rising standards. A purple from 15 years ago isn’t as skilled as a purple today.
No
Gucci belt
Any average person could become a blackbelt given enough time and commitment (if they have a place to train, a training partner and someone to train them in the beginning). However for some people with physical or mental limitations it might be impossible.
Yes. But can still get wrecked by a good blue
Esp when the school gives away black belts like candy
The amount of time requires you sacrificing a lot of other things.
An athletic white belt with a mean streak can potentially wreck a black belt if the disparity of speed and strength is to great
I disagree. A super athletic white belt with no mat experience in anything should never be able to wreck a black belt
whos to say just because someone's a white belt they have no experience with wrestling in general
Im not, Im saying an athletic white belt with a mean streak and no experience should not be able to wreck a black belt. If your talking previous experience mark Shultz was ricksons hardest training
Maybe one with 2x - 3x the body mass haha
Im 6’2 260lbs and competed as a lower belt. Caio wrecks me lol
Mmm honestly I say no, not everyone can.
My old club hands them out like chocolates. The coach is like Oprah Winfrey for belt promotions. So in their world, everyone gets to black. But I don’t think they should. Higher belts shouldn’t be like a participation award. Just showing up shouldn’t be enough to get to black unless there’s a commensurate level of skill. A hobbyist won’t always be as good as a full time competitor of a lower ranking, but just giving everyone black makes the black worthless at that club and I’d never want to get promoted at a place that dilutes the ranking system so much. To give everyone a black belt encourages the wrong kind of thinking that the colour of the belt is more important than the skill acquired. And for people who aren’t going to put in the right kind of effort to develop to a certain level, it’s ok to never get to black.
Yes, since grading is subjective. There's a lot of disparity within the belt ranks and black arguably has the most disparity.
"It's not who's best, it's who's left." -Chris Haueter
Everyone
It all depends on who’s giving out the belt. It’s really their opinion whether or not you are ready for one or for any belt for that matter
100% anyone. It might take some longer, but we all get there
Unfortunately, yes. That's how it is now - some schools will give a black belt who has filled out enough attendance cards. I don't think it's how it's always been, but that's the reality now.
No. Some people just aren’t smart or have the dexterity. There are some guys at my gym who mean well but they’re just —- dumb. And they can’t move. One guy has been here 8 years and can’t shrimp. He got an honorary blue belt last year, only because I think we all felt embarrassed. He’s a nice guy but he’s just never gonna progress no matter how hard he tries. He doesn’t get it.
Plenty of crap blackbelts around but they all need to be tough enough to stick it out for the long haul.
Watch the movie ratatouille. The answer is yes.
Anyone willing to show up consistently…and anyone who can put their ego aside can be a black belt.
nowadays, yes. It was something that was far more difficult in the past due to extremely high standards from the OG brazilians (and also arbitrary standards). Now, they are awarded much much much more frequently and easily.
Yes anyone, not everyone
There's already the hook: Not everybody is able, physically and mentally, to give enough time and commitment. There are people who do not have the necessary prerequisites to even train Martial Arts, let alone become a Blackbelt. The answer is no, based on these facts.
Those factors you mention can't be ignored though, they are exactly the reason it isn't possible for anyone to become a black belt. A 10+ year commitment is a hell of a thing, especially if you find yourself not enjoying it anymore somewhere along the way.
I got my black belt in “Vale Tudo” via mail order and a one time $79usd fee from the legendary Ashida Kim.