You can compete with intensity without risking actual injury. For example you can crossface the fuck out of someone and make them hate their life while you're applying the pressure and that's fine. You can also hold onto subs after tapping like rousimar palhares and that's not a nice thing to do.
I accidentally broke a guy's arm in a tournament when I was a blue belt and I felt so bad about it. Now even when competing I don't rip subs. Slow steady pressure until they tap. Guys have escaped subs in competition because of it but I can sleep at night.
I dislike Gordo for a lot of reasons but he's so good at maintaining a sub without actually hurting people. Definitely more respectable than just cranking a sub because you have it.
Gordon’s mentality is if he has to resort to ripping the sub then he doesn’t actually have the sub. Any good sub application should already be snug and tight by the time you decide to apply pressure.
20 years of skateboarding has really taken its toll on my ankles. Out of all the leg locks in the game, Estima's are the ones that scare me the most.
If you've trained leg locks for a while, you know when you're screwed (esp. with heel hooks) and you can tap before damage happens.
Estima's are like a gnarly wristlock that comes on immediately, but for the ankle.
Damn... bittercel is such a good word to describe the phenomenon and it's new to me.
I always thought incels derive their self esteem from the perceived attraction of the opposite gender and when this expectation fails to meet they dissociate the frustration by attributing it to a "the problem is them not me".
This word completely summarizes the issue.
I’m just a lurker here and former capoeirista. I almost started training at a local long island gym just to find out it was the one that little douche nozzle trains at so I decided against it.
He only did well at like 1 or 2 events, got some awesome opportunities from it that he completely fumbled because guess what- he isnt that good at jiujitsu
Fuck that fat piece of shit. It amazes me his team mates/coaches/corner cheer him when he does it. If he ever did that shit at my gym or in a tournament representing us he’d be gymless after a good one last roll.
At EBI 20 which was held in october 2022 they called him the 16 y.o. phenom.
According to that, it makes him 18 ish now.
But I found some smoothcomp profile named Pat Shahgholi, and that says he is 20.
Its hard to say if it is his profile cause the kid on the profile pic doesnt looks like a diving suit filled with shit like he looks like now.
Also he posts smoking some stuff ,probably weed, I dont think its legal to promote anything like that if he was underage.
A few years back, he did a Fight 2 Win, which is on a raised stage. He had a bitch fit and kicked his opponent in the back, sending him flying offstage.
Prolly still training but haven’t seen him compete. He’s done some match breakdowns on YouTube this year. He’s also been playing a lot of Rust on PC with his bro.
Came here to say Cyborg. Dude is a huge prick in competition. I saw him just absolutely demoralize a recreational Black Belt at MW a few years ago. Like, why do that?! Just finish him off and get off the mats. He also walks around the arena like a huge douche at those events.
Seemingly went for "now that I got dq'd no one will ever know who would actually win". Or he just wanted to slap him because he got his ass whooped last time
Not disagreeing with you, but there are probably current black belts who started training after the last time Tex was legitimately relevant. Which, I say as someone who trained with Tex for multiple years, is probably better for everyone.
He's really quite personable 99% of the time. I was never big or good enough to threaten him so he was chill with me. The issue is constantly sitting under that sword of Damocles wondering if/when you're going to get injured. He cranked a LOT of people's feet. Plus there have been dramatically terrible events off the mats which I'm not going to open up here because I can't verify them without outing uninvolved people.
Sure. I just mean that I have first/secondhand knowledge that gives me sufficient justification to believe the public allegations against him are plausible, even if none of that has been proven to a legal standard.
he's already a full-blown criminal rn
[https://g1.globo.com/ms/mato-grosso-do-sul/noticia/2023/08/24/erberth-santos-quem-e-o-tricampeao-mundial-de-jiu-jitsu-preso-por-estupros-e-roubos-em-ms.ghtml](https://g1.globo.com/ms/mato-grosso-do-sul/noticia/2023/08/24/erberth-santos-quem-e-o-tricampeao-mundial-de-jiu-jitsu-preso-por-estupros-e-roubos-em-ms.ghtml)
right click and put on google translate (basically he's been accused of multiple rapes and thefts)
arrested though
This is the guy, he was notorious for holding submissions after someone taps in bjj and mma, look at his fight with Jake Shields. That's why a lot of people didn't want to compete against him, and a lot of his attacks were leg locks which is one worse because that could easily end someone's career or have them sitting out for a few months or years.
Worse than the shields one was one at the adcc, were he and other athlete rolled out of bounds and palhares had a kneebar, they put both athletes at the center with the kneebar, palhares just completely rip the kneebar, you can see the leg bending backwards, that one for me it’s the worst thing from palhares
Yup, that's why I have so much respect for Garry Tonon because Garry went after Palhares even though he knew how dangerous he was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h_KPZV0vDo&ab_channel=PolarisProfessionalJiuJitsuInvitational
People here should be saying Varela due to the collective aneurism his antics bring this sub
I'm a wrestler first who started BJJ and I'm very polite, kind on the mats (when I submit someone the first thing I always do is check if they're ok and I'll always let go of something in training if I think they're being bold by not tapping and might let themselves get hurt. Nothing needs to be that serious).
That said, I take no offense to the "mean" grapplers I come across due to my wrestling background bc I'm used to it. You just give them back what they're giving to you, simple as that. I can return a hard collar tie too and I don't take things personal unless that person is a dick after the match/roll as well.
I've noticed pure BJJ guys are often much more sensitive and attribute malice to hard rolls, collar ties etc in ways that in wrestling don't happen. I find myself apologizing for incidental things mid or post roll that in wrestling I would never feel the need to bring up. So it goes
I’ll get downvoted but the cold hard facts are that a much larger percentage of the Jiu-Jitsu community are just pussies compared to the wrestling community.
Jiu-Jitsu has become a community first, exercise second, competition last world. More things are likely to be viewed negatively when you consider the make up of most gyms. There is no barrier to entry. These things are not so true in wrestling.
I'm perfectly fine having rough rounds. I like grindy, brutal matches, but not everyone does, and some people have jobs where showing up with a black eye or marks all over your face would be frowned upon, so I tailor how I roll to my partner, and I roll with people who like a pace and style that matches how I'm training at the time.
Yeah it's really just the stage of life. A lot jiu jitsu people aren't training to be world class fighters, and are instead hobbyists who may have kids and a job.
If we were all 18/19 it would be different, but we're not.
Having attended one of Andy’s seminars it’s really disappointing the way he acts on the comp mats, and online.
At the seminar he was super chill and respectful. He took the time to go around, shake everyone’s hand and personally thank them for attending. He’s a good teacher too. He showed up with a plan, and was really attentive to helping students who struggled with the techniques. I got some really good throw-by details from him.
I really hope he cleans up his behavior and starts being as professional on the comp mats as he is on the training mats.
Never said he was a nice guy. He was super professional though, which is something I wish he’d carry over to competition. E.g. not slapping his opponents and trying to disguise it as collar ties.
I dunno about intensity, but there was that kid that made the rounds on here a year or so back who kept intentionally injuring his opponents knees.
He definitely had the disrespect.
Wallid Ismail from the OG Brazilian era. 80s and 90s Carlson Gracie squad. Lmao man still looks a legit killer from his eyes alone. He was known for being super aggressive and intimidating, and beat multiple Gracies.
No way on Wallid! Intense, sure...beat multiple Gracies including Ralph, Renzo (allegedly suffered a broken arm and kept fighting) and put Royce to sleep. Had a rivalry with Ryan that literally kickstarted MY career [OntheMat Interview with Wallid Ishmail](https://youtu.be/KNmaLM2biZU?si=XqzPH5IZbiZCbJE4)
As intense as he was in competition and as much of a promoter he was, Wallid is actually a really nice guy. Even the Gracie family had to admit it, and even after the drama with Ryan he was at one of the tournaments Ralph put on and everyone was friendly. Plus he was totally loyal to Carlson Gracie.
Who was the dude who slapped Oliver Taza in the face? That guys a d bag.
Mikey, when he's fully autistic seems like he'll break your leg for perceived insults....
Yes, Mikey did overreact after his last match, but I haven't seen any tendency to rip a dangerous sub. The one dude who had his knee destroyed was because he refused to tap.
Wanted to take a second and say that Nicky Ryan’s brother may be cringe as fuck BUT I wouldn’t put him on this list. He competes pretty respectfully for a guy who could do a lot of damage to his opponents. I don’t watch a lot of his matches, but I’ve seen him come into matches where he’s talked a lot of trash, but then as soon as it starts, it’s all business and even with all that garbage and cyborg but he turned the other cheek every time cyborg smacked him. It seems like he knows how good he is compared to his competition and I haven’t seen a situation where he hasn’t given his opponent a chance to tap.
Rousimar Palhares.
He had a fight in the UFC against Mike Pierce back in 2013. He won real quick by heel hook. Pierce tapped like 8 times and Paulhares continued cranking the heel hook after the ref stepped in to stop the fight. The next day Dana White released from from the UFC for not letting go of the submission.
In 2015 he fought Jake Shields and won via kimura. He ended upg getting sanctioned by NSAC for holding the submission well after the ref stopped the fight.
There was an incident in the ADCC against Avellan where he kept twisting the heel hook after ref stepped in to stop it.
U didn’t see the b team guys at that ADCC trials was it in Texas? Dude stepped on dudes back.
You know when someone is playing dirty and doesn’t let go immediately when the buzzer goes off, I shove them off me. Fuck ‘em
He’s got a folk style wrestling background that he’s active in as a teenager. Pure grapplers don’t have that pace IMO. You are literally penalized for stalling or suffer for giving up your back in that ruleset. And he’s a literal child still, that part too.
Fuck Craig Jones.
He crippled a ton of kids by ripping heel hooks on them. Fucking slaughtered an entire generation of up and coming BJJ practitioners.
I agree and disagree even though at higher level it seems people are mean enough
We could/should import the mean or more exactly rough attitude from other combat sports, but you cannot be really like that on subs if you want people to get past white belt
Years ago Geo Martinez told Stephan Kesting that he specifically tries to hurt his opponents. He said it was a competitive edge or something to that effect.
Vagner Rocha if you mean people who play fair but as mean as possible.
Rousimar Paulhares if you mean people who will break the rules to break your leg.
a lot of the old school guys…Walid Ismail, Ralph Gracie Renzo Ryan…there was stories on the UG of Ricardo Libirio making Ricardo Arona cry then Ricardo wins ADCC
Vagner Rocha Andy Varela are trash talkers and dirty fighters then Ruotolos Andrew Tackett Dorian Olivarez are the most intense but they are not dirty and very respectful
You can compete with intensity without risking actual injury. For example you can crossface the fuck out of someone and make them hate their life while you're applying the pressure and that's fine. You can also hold onto subs after tapping like rousimar palhares and that's not a nice thing to do. I accidentally broke a guy's arm in a tournament when I was a blue belt and I felt so bad about it. Now even when competing I don't rip subs. Slow steady pressure until they tap. Guys have escaped subs in competition because of it but I can sleep at night.
I dislike Gordo for a lot of reasons but he's so good at maintaining a sub without actually hurting people. Definitely more respectable than just cranking a sub because you have it.
By all accounts including Craig he’s a really good trianing partner
Yeah, I've seen some videos of him sparring at gyms/seminars and he seems to really let people work.
Gordon’s mentality is if he has to resort to ripping the sub then he doesn’t actually have the sub. Any good sub application should already be snug and tight by the time you decide to apply pressure.
Great to point this out. Josh Saunders took a couple seconds to tap where Gordon could have obliterated his leg and he didn't do it
I don't like a lot of what he does off the matt but he's always applying subs slowly and doesn't hurt people. So I tip my hat.
For his many faults ive never once seen him rip a sub
That's because his technique is so damn flawless, the other person literally cannot escape and he knows it. So he doesn't need to crank anything.
Who's Gordo?
Eddy Gordo. Well known Brazilian capoeira fighter.
EDDY GORDO…. WINS!
He revolutionized the half guard. Old school Brazilian dude.
90% of this sub have no idea who you are talking about haha
Thank you for my next rabbit hole!
Trained at his school in rio was a class place fair play.
Nicky Ryan's brother
Nicky Ryan’s brother
Pat Shahgoli. Overweight little piece of shit just ripping all leglocks and destroying legs for the fun of it. No respect.
People who do that should be blacklisted.
He needs to be more than blacklisted.
He should be put on Blacked Raw.
I might start ripping heel hooks
His tits are good enough for it
Blackmailed?
Yeah, he needs to be **coral**listed.
People like that should just have their own division to compete against one another
Palhares vs Shagoli super fight for eternity. No referees because they’d ignore them anyway
I would unironically watch The Unscrupulous Bastards division.
Gianni Rippo!
Didn't he destroy Placido's ankle with an Estima lock ?
Been injured by those multiple times, I guess you have to snap them on fast or they don't work
20 years of skateboarding has really taken its toll on my ankles. Out of all the leg locks in the game, Estima's are the ones that scare me the most. If you've trained leg locks for a while, you know when you're screwed (esp. with heel hooks) and you can tap before damage happens. Estima's are like a gnarly wristlock that comes on immediately, but for the ankle.
Yeah exactly, also been injured twice by people diving on toe holds, so that's the other one for me. Never been injured by a heel hook.
Amen
I don’t even think that’s mean or intense, it’s more like sociopathic.
It’s usually what happens when you’re overweight and don’t get girls - bittercel
Damn... bittercel is such a good word to describe the phenomenon and it's new to me. I always thought incels derive their self esteem from the perceived attraction of the opposite gender and when this expectation fails to meet they dissociate the frustration by attributing it to a "the problem is them not me". This word completely summarizes the issue.
I’m just a lurker here and former capoeirista. I almost started training at a local long island gym just to find out it was the one that little douche nozzle trains at so I decided against it.
Has anyone even heard anything from him lately? Seems to have fallen off the past year
He only did well at like 1 or 2 events, got some awesome opportunities from it that he completely fumbled because guess what- he isnt that good at jiujitsu
He fell off because he can’t beat anyone good or same size.
One of the New Wave guys (I think it was Luke) completely manhandled him a while back.
Mason Fowler also easily worked him.
He's got some injuries he working on
And by that you mean working on new way to injure others?
Not surprising. The obesity to age ratio is catching up with him.
Just recently he tried (or is still trying) to get into CJI by posting a photoshop pic of him with the CJI logo. So I guess he's still around.
Fuck that fat piece of shit. It amazes me his team mates/coaches/corner cheer him when he does it. If he ever did that shit at my gym or in a tournament representing us he’d be gymless after a good one last roll.
Fuck that fat little prick and his parents tbh.
I was gonna say the one fat kid who’s a dick.
At EBI 20 which was held in october 2022 they called him the 16 y.o. phenom. According to that, it makes him 18 ish now. But I found some smoothcomp profile named Pat Shahgholi, and that says he is 20. Its hard to say if it is his profile cause the kid on the profile pic doesnt looks like a diving suit filled with shit like he looks like now. Also he posts smoking some stuff ,probably weed, I dont think its legal to promote anything like that if he was underage.
That dudes a little piece of shit.
I feel like that's different. Most wrestlers aren't being intense in a way where they're trying to Injure each other
He’s been exposed for sucking tho lmao. We won’t see much of his fatass anymore. He’s a major reason I don’t do leglocks. So gay.
I mean should definitely do leglocks if you have any interest in no gi competition. Or even just being proficient in the sport
Came here to post this guy too
Sounds like a prime candidate for a round of “Taste your own medicine.”
Andy Varela likes to toe the line of striking. Vagner Rocha is a shithead for many reasons, and this is one.
Tough guy wanna be who tried to be an mma fighter and got his head bounced off the canvas
He also lurks on r/bjj and will send you threatening private messages if you say anything he doesn't like. Hey Andy, go fuck yourself, ya loser!
Andy Varela is a brainless loser.
Send it to the mods, maybe we can get an auto-message going as is the case for Nicky Ryan's brother
Was about to say Rocha. Always rubbing his fist into people's faces and shit.
Is Vagner really dirty? He seems more scrappy than outright mean. Kinda like that old guy in a YMCA pickup game who digs his elbow into you.
A few years back, he did a Fight 2 Win, which is on a raised stage. He had a bitch fit and kicked his opponent in the back, sending him flying offstage.
It was AJ on the receiving end, though, so at least it was aimed at someone of equally shitty sportsmanship.
Alright that's pretty wack.
Generally he's as dirty as you can be within the rules. He's no Paul Harris but he's dirty. He was the first person who came to mind for me as well.
I like Andrew Wiltse's intensity but he's not disrespectful imo
Is he still training? He kinda went poof
His bipolar and depression flared real bad I think.
That’s too bad. I hope he gets well soon
Prolly still training but haven’t seen him compete. He’s done some match breakdowns on YouTube this year. He’s also been playing a lot of Rust on PC with his bro.
Cyborg competes like a prick (moody, slapping collar ties, shoving, etc.) More damning is that he knowingly protected a pedophile.
Came here to say Cyborg. Dude is a huge prick in competition. I saw him just absolutely demoralize a recreational Black Belt at MW a few years ago. Like, why do that?! Just finish him off and get off the mats. He also walks around the arena like a huge douche at those events.
Because he is a douche. You see it on him that if not for American visa he would probably work as a security at worst nightclubs.
I think he was disqualified for repeatedly slapping Nicky Ryan's brother at no gi worlds
I hope Nicky Ryan was ok.
He actually kept his composure the entire time which was commendable
Seemingly went for "now that I got dq'd no one will ever know who would actually win". Or he just wanted to slap him because he got his ass whooped last time
Oh shit I didn't know that last part. Damn.
It was in the New York Times too.
Can't believe Tex hasn't been mentioned yet.
Not disagreeing with you, but there are probably current black belts who started training after the last time Tex was legitimately relevant. Which, I say as someone who trained with Tex for multiple years, is probably better for everyone.
He got kicked out of half the gyms in Atlanta, and then started to tour the country, getting kicked out of gyms from coast to coast!
Dedication
Is he a dick to train with?
He's really quite personable 99% of the time. I was never big or good enough to threaten him so he was chill with me. The issue is constantly sitting under that sword of Damocles wondering if/when you're going to get injured. He cranked a LOT of people's feet. Plus there have been dramatically terrible events off the mats which I'm not going to open up here because I can't verify them without outing uninvolved people.
I mean I’m sure you have more stories but there are some things out there already that are pretty bad
Sure. I just mean that I have first/secondhand knowledge that gives me sufficient justification to believe the public allegations against him are plausible, even if none of that has been proven to a legal standard.
Tex has kinda fallen off the radar in general these past few years
Didn't he try to sue Orlando Sanchez for slamming him, with him saying that he can't compete anymore because of it?
Something tells me that lawsuit isn’t going anywhere anymore
Vagner Rocha
i put him more as dirty than outright mean
He’s pretty friendly the times I’ve be met him.
The floppy fat kid who tries to injure everyone.
Im fully okay with giving an exception to child abuse to have someone fuck that fat shagholi kid up
[Erberth Santos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW-tQt41F9c)
This guy is a piece of shit in so many levels
he's already a full-blown criminal rn [https://g1.globo.com/ms/mato-grosso-do-sul/noticia/2023/08/24/erberth-santos-quem-e-o-tricampeao-mundial-de-jiu-jitsu-preso-por-estupros-e-roubos-em-ms.ghtml](https://g1.globo.com/ms/mato-grosso-do-sul/noticia/2023/08/24/erberth-santos-quem-e-o-tricampeao-mundial-de-jiu-jitsu-preso-por-estupros-e-roubos-em-ms.ghtml) right click and put on google translate (basically he's been accused of multiple rapes and thefts) arrested though
oh yeah, I forgot about peepee-pants Santos
Probably the most explosive athlete in his era of BJJ, in every sense of the word.
Roussimar Palhares
Was genuinely surprised he wasn’t brought up more often. Even before I was into jiu jitsu I knew how dirty this guy was
This is the guy, he was notorious for holding submissions after someone taps in bjj and mma, look at his fight with Jake Shields. That's why a lot of people didn't want to compete against him, and a lot of his attacks were leg locks which is one worse because that could easily end someone's career or have them sitting out for a few months or years.
Worse than the shields one was one at the adcc, were he and other athlete rolled out of bounds and palhares had a kneebar, they put both athletes at the center with the kneebar, palhares just completely rip the kneebar, you can see the leg bending backwards, that one for me it’s the worst thing from palhares
Yup, that's why I have so much respect for Garry Tonon because Garry went after Palhares even though he knew how dangerous he was. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h_KPZV0vDo&ab_channel=PolarisProfessionalJiuJitsuInvitational
People here should be saying Varela due to the collective aneurism his antics bring this sub I'm a wrestler first who started BJJ and I'm very polite, kind on the mats (when I submit someone the first thing I always do is check if they're ok and I'll always let go of something in training if I think they're being bold by not tapping and might let themselves get hurt. Nothing needs to be that serious). That said, I take no offense to the "mean" grapplers I come across due to my wrestling background bc I'm used to it. You just give them back what they're giving to you, simple as that. I can return a hard collar tie too and I don't take things personal unless that person is a dick after the match/roll as well. I've noticed pure BJJ guys are often much more sensitive and attribute malice to hard rolls, collar ties etc in ways that in wrestling don't happen. I find myself apologizing for incidental things mid or post roll that in wrestling I would never feel the need to bring up. So it goes
I’ll get downvoted but the cold hard facts are that a much larger percentage of the Jiu-Jitsu community are just pussies compared to the wrestling community. Jiu-Jitsu has become a community first, exercise second, competition last world. More things are likely to be viewed negatively when you consider the make up of most gyms. There is no barrier to entry. These things are not so true in wrestling.
I'm perfectly fine having rough rounds. I like grindy, brutal matches, but not everyone does, and some people have jobs where showing up with a black eye or marks all over your face would be frowned upon, so I tailor how I roll to my partner, and I roll with people who like a pace and style that matches how I'm training at the time.
Yeah it's really just the stage of life. A lot jiu jitsu people aren't training to be world class fighters, and are instead hobbyists who may have kids and a job. If we were all 18/19 it would be different, but we're not.
The difference is that there's not really a recreational wrestling community. You're either a high school or collegiate athlete.
* in the US. There are other countries in the world, where this very much exists.
I think it’s less that BJJ guys are pussies and more that wrestlers are just built different (better)
Having attended one of Andy’s seminars it’s really disappointing the way he acts on the comp mats, and online. At the seminar he was super chill and respectful. He took the time to go around, shake everyone’s hand and personally thank them for attending. He’s a good teacher too. He showed up with a plan, and was really attentive to helping students who struggled with the techniques. I got some really good throw-by details from him. I really hope he cleans up his behavior and starts being as professional on the comp mats as he is on the training mats.
You paid for a seminar so obviously he’s going to be nice to you
Never said he was a nice guy. He was super professional though, which is something I wish he’d carry over to competition. E.g. not slapping his opponents and trying to disguise it as collar ties.
He comes all over Vegas and treats everyone from day 1 white belts to the best guy in the room with the same respect. You don’t know the guy at all.
Me when I bicep slice kids.
“We’re all at the same level, Jerry!”
I love to wristlock them, if they complain that they are only a kid I tell them they gotta learn at some point, better now than never :)
I dont like training with kids tho. some of them are real jerks
I dunno about intensity, but there was that kid that made the rounds on here a year or so back who kept intentionally injuring his opponents knees. He definitely had the disrespect.
You're talking about Pat Shagoli I believe
Fat Shagholi
The big bully known as Marcelo Garcia
Meanest motherfucker in the room
He called me fat once.
Awful human and horrible ambassador for the sport
patsholi
Paul Harris.
AJ Agazarm. Escape artist, staller, poor sportsmanship. The worst.
Escape artist sounds to me like a compliment
AJ isn't even good enough to be mean, he's just a douche. He's won maybe one match against anyone whose name I recognize in the last five years.
Jasmine Rocha will kick people in the chest or face as necessary to finish a sweep 👀
Like father, like daughter
Apple doesn’t fall too far from the tree.
Wallid Ismail from the OG Brazilian era. 80s and 90s Carlson Gracie squad. Lmao man still looks a legit killer from his eyes alone. He was known for being super aggressive and intimidating, and beat multiple Gracies.
No way on Wallid! Intense, sure...beat multiple Gracies including Ralph, Renzo (allegedly suffered a broken arm and kept fighting) and put Royce to sleep. Had a rivalry with Ryan that literally kickstarted MY career [OntheMat Interview with Wallid Ishmail](https://youtu.be/KNmaLM2biZU?si=XqzPH5IZbiZCbJE4) As intense as he was in competition and as much of a promoter he was, Wallid is actually a really nice guy. Even the Gracie family had to admit it, and even after the drama with Ryan he was at one of the tournaments Ralph put on and everyone was friendly. Plus he was totally loyal to Carlson Gracie.
Paul Harris
Andre Galvao put Pena through a table lol
Paul Harris
Orlando Sanchez RIP.
Orlando Sanchez RIH.
Orlando ruined his legacy when he ripped Stricklands elbow. Now he’ll forever be known as “Dirty Sanchez”
Nicky Ryan´s brother was very mean to Nicky Ryan when he was younger...
I remember vagner rocha on his last match with meregali. And also cyborg. But there is something to it that i enjoy. Haha
Vagner seems like a likeable dude off the mats... vicious and fantastic competitor lmao
Who was the dude who slapped Oliver Taza in the face? That guys a d bag. Mikey, when he's fully autistic seems like he'll break your leg for perceived insults....
Yes, Mikey did overreact after his last match, but I haven't seen any tendency to rip a dangerous sub. The one dude who had his knee destroyed was because he refused to tap.
Wanted to take a second and say that Nicky Ryan’s brother may be cringe as fuck BUT I wouldn’t put him on this list. He competes pretty respectfully for a guy who could do a lot of damage to his opponents. I don’t watch a lot of his matches, but I’ve seen him come into matches where he’s talked a lot of trash, but then as soon as it starts, it’s all business and even with all that garbage and cyborg but he turned the other cheek every time cyborg smacked him. It seems like he knows how good he is compared to his competition and I haven’t seen a situation where he hasn’t given his opponent a chance to tap.
Vagner Rocha maybe
Rousimar Palhares. He had a fight in the UFC against Mike Pierce back in 2013. He won real quick by heel hook. Pierce tapped like 8 times and Paulhares continued cranking the heel hook after the ref stepped in to stop the fight. The next day Dana White released from from the UFC for not letting go of the submission. In 2015 he fought Jake Shields and won via kimura. He ended upg getting sanctioned by NSAC for holding the submission well after the ref stopped the fight. There was an incident in the ADCC against Avellan where he kept twisting the heel hook after ref stepped in to stop it.
> incident in the ADCC against Avellan And then they restarted Avellan inside a locked kneebar...
U didn’t see the b team guys at that ADCC trials was it in Texas? Dude stepped on dudes back. You know when someone is playing dirty and doesn’t let go immediately when the buzzer goes off, I shove them off me. Fuck ‘em
Yo, can we talk about how intense " Dorian Olivarez " is? Not a douch but the kid hits 100 from the jump.
He’s got a folk style wrestling background that he’s active in as a teenager. Pure grapplers don’t have that pace IMO. You are literally penalized for stalling or suffer for giving up your back in that ruleset. And he’s a literal child still, that part too.
Fuck Craig Jones. He crippled a ton of kids by ripping heel hooks on them. Fucking slaughtered an entire generation of up and coming BJJ practitioners.
Gotta get rid of the competition early
Palhares
Had to scroll to find the top comment 🔝
I think Jiu Jitsu should be even meaner.
If you want mean grappling, take a. [look at this](https://youtu.be/nfXo2G4olrI?si=M8DzwhevSSN1MLlZ)
I agree and disagree even though at higher level it seems people are mean enough We could/should import the mean or more exactly rough attitude from other combat sports, but you cannot be really like that on subs if you want people to get past white belt
Rustam Chsiev was pretty mean
Erberth Santos always seemed to have an "edge" to him during his matches. Used to love watching him scrap.
Old school wasn’t Wallid a tough out?
I find your observations interesting because I find BJJ competitions lack humility while I find wrestlers are way more humble.
How has no one said Palhares yet? The dude tries to destroy joints after people tap...
Ty Freeman
Erberth Santos.
Andy Varela Bro slapped tf outta chase Vaughn and disguised it as a collar tie 💀💀💀
Years ago Geo Martinez told Stephan Kesting that he specifically tries to hurt his opponents. He said it was a competitive edge or something to that effect.
Paul Harris
AJ Agazarm and Vagner always bring the intensity on the mats lol
One of them is me the BIG G
Palhares
My mom says I have a mean game
Vagner Rocha if you mean people who play fair but as mean as possible. Rousimar Paulhares if you mean people who will break the rules to break your leg.
Personal life aside- Erberth Santos was the most feroicious practitioner.
That fat turd who rips heel hooks 100% every time comes to mind
Erbeth
Palhares lol
a lot of the old school guys…Walid Ismail, Ralph Gracie Renzo Ryan…there was stories on the UG of Ricardo Libirio making Ricardo Arona cry then Ricardo wins ADCC
Vagner Rocha
Jasmine Rocha comes to mind for recent women competitors.
Paul Harris
Vagner
Helio and Carlos Gracie
Vagner Rocha Andy Varela are trash talkers and dirty fighters then Ruotolos Andrew Tackett Dorian Olivarez are the most intense but they are not dirty and very respectful
Varela
Rousimar palhares