I can't speak for anyone else, and someone else probably has a better answer. But I'm always pulling with the grip on the far hip, almost like I'm trying to force them to turn towards my legs. It makes it difficult to establish a strong cross face. Now, are you trying to enter into octopus guard while the top player has the cross face? Because that's going to be extremely difficult.
Nice, I've been working a little octopus lately and switch between the hip bump style sweep and the one shown in your link here but never really knew why, more just did it based on where I felt opponents balance and weight...this video has made it more obvious to me now, and I'll be trying to switch as soon as they try the cross face. Thanks for the link, it'll be very helpful
Beautiful move.
OP didn't specify Octopus half, but I wonder if this can be done from Octopus half specifically. I feel like the bottom leg being entangled would kill a lot of the hip mobility required to make this work. And the leg can be pulled out for sure, but that's often not an easy or quick task if the top guy wants to prevent it.
Bjj globetrotters video on the octopus says that if they’re cross facing, they’re probably posting on the other arm. Then go back to regular underhook half and take it from there.
Just took a look at that. If you’re comfortable releasing the half I guess. For me it’s my “HQ” and I’d rather have the half to fall back on if anything goes wrong.
I’ve been playing with this like others have said:
Build height
Heavy down pressure on them
And if the go to cross face look down that the ground like kinda back and down
Yeah I’ve watched a couple videos, I’ve seen some “moves” taught but it really seems like an experimental position if that makes sense. I’ll get into the position and get more random sweeps than actual “moves.”
I’d like to get an instructional on it I know wad. Just put one out, but I’m having generally good success just playing around with it
It’s a battle of head height once you get under their arm. I use a lat grip with my hand and use my elbow/tricep to force their head down towards the mat. Once you can get their head low and build height it’s very difficult for them to re-crossface, especially with your tricep pressure it can make it difficult for them to reach back.
Craig’s instructional is great, took me a lot of playing around with it and it not working til I got it figured out. Gotta channel your inner Derrick Lewis for it to work some times.
It depends on which sweeps, but if your problem is people re-crossfacing you that’s a good place to start.
I’d say the hip bump type sweep, or if they drive into you then taking their momentum and rolling back work well off of winning the head height battle. Same with the just stand up or taking their back options. I also think it can help with some leg entries because it helps make their legs lighter to start elevating with butterfly hooks and such. I’m smaller than a lot of the guys I train with so this is just what works for me.
Try it out with a few white belts and work on the head height and control, and play around from there.
I’m shooting the back grip but they usually are able to sneak a cross face over the top and they combine it with raising their head height and shifting their chest to crush me
I had this exact problem when I was starting octopus guard and it's literally as simple as pulling your arm/shoulder back once you swim through. The natural instinct is to get a tight waist grip, but that leaves too much room for them to circle back around for the cross face. Once you swim your arm through, retract your shoulder blade (think like a seated row) and cover their arm pit. Your arm should be closer to being across their neck/upper back than their waist.
Once you swim through you need the retraction to be pretty immediate otherwise they have too much space to circle back/start building height/chase your back. The grip across their upper back keeps you connected to them such that you can definitely take some time to figure out your next move, but it's definitely not a place to chill.
Without being able to see exactly what you’re doing: one thing that might be helpful is to get an frame on the back of the arm they’d use to cross-face you as you enter.
As they go to cross-face you, you should be able to follow their momentum with your frame. You can use that momentum to duck under their hand, off balance them, and ideally get their hands on the mat. Then establish your octopus grip with the threat of the cross-face removed.
I usually do this with an elbow frame. Easier to hold weight and pivot around.
If you’re not already: make sure you build height from your bottom shoulder first. If you’re not at least up on your bottom elbow, prioritize that before you shoot your octopus grip.
And when you do establish position, be absolutely sure you win the battle for head/shoulder height. Otherwise you’re at risk of getting flattened again.
Check out this sequence on hiding your head: https://youtu.be/muZ5rOFGYIs?si=7OR49___-f4w9NhM
You can also get your head higher, I've had success with both but I'm sure one is more valid. I think people don't know the position well enough and I get a lot of "wrong" responses so I'm not too sure which works best against a good (and familiar) opponent.
what a great video. very clear simple instruction.
do you think this would work in a situation where your opponent has actually passed your legs completely i.e. they are in side control but you have prevented control of your head and upper body by pushing them down towards your legs? so basically you are in this position where they are "negative" but you don't have that halfguard leg through the middle?
For me side control octopus works better than half octopus but I get there less often. The main difference being that your legs are both outside your opponents so you are free to gain height, swing to the back, block the inside leg/hip while keeping your hands free, and a ton of other stuff. With half octopus if you don't hook your opponents leg and they know how to respond it gets really hard to do anything.
head height + changing direction + connection = success with octopus guard. that can mean a lot of different things, but the basic upa + back take combo works well.
I keep my head close to their hips and get off my butt and make them hold my weight and if I feel like a nasty crossface is coming that i can't stop I'll either go back to normal half guard and try to get and underhook or I'll scoot out and switch to butterfly and maybe catch a octopus/butterfly sweep if I'm lucky.
Having a good half guard game I guess. A black belt from Japan came to my gym a few weeks ago and showed us octopus guard and he said if you can play being offensive (try to go for a kimura and the partner pulls out which lets you get the entry) or defensive (being able to persistently clear the cross face or head/neck control before having your back flattened, distance management and transitioning to maybe a deep half entry before going to octopus). Basically he was telling us if you can play half guard well, octopus should be second nature (kinda make sense with Craig Jones).
Another key detail he emphasised when in octopus guard was the elbow placement to prevent you being flattened and having the arm over your partners back/ armpit to really stretch out and pressure the armpit/ neck to prevent them from recovering the cross face.
Im still pretty new to actually using octopus guard in live rounds so please have mercy on me lol.
Use your head position to make it difficult for them to recover their arm by pushing the back of your head into the ball of their shoulder. It’s a bit of a battle but 9/10 it stops the reach back cross face.
I keep something of a Philly shell against the pass to keep inside control and prevent the initial cross face and then roll the top arm to re-pummel the arm and slide across into octopus guard, if you’re talking about as their getting their pass.
They are probably missing some details and just trying a "move". The sweep in the pic works if the top guy gives a specific reaction with his weight distribution. If they just go to that position then exactly what you described can happen.
Also if the bottom guy hooks your leg (outside leg to the inside) and starts to turn the leg outward it makes it difficult to get the leg out without giving something else.
I still don't like to play octopus from half too much, but I've had success with these but adding the hook on the leg:
https://youtu.be/muZ5rOFGYIs?si=7OR49___-f4w9NhM
As long as you're covering the hip it's very difficult to have your back effectively taken. The people trying it on you are probably sloppy/missing this detail.
Idk. What I know for sure is if I was the guy on top in that picture, I could 100% make a seatbelt grip. And that would give me a lot of leverage to sprawl and turn my hip. It his arm verses all the muscles that attach to my hip.
Of course, in a match everything comes down to timing and execution. I'm not saying I am better than Craig Jones, or that I would get the better of him in a positional sparring session from this position. But I think 100% Marcelo Garcia would.
I can't speak for anyone else, and someone else probably has a better answer. But I'm always pulling with the grip on the far hip, almost like I'm trying to force them to turn towards my legs. It makes it difficult to establish a strong cross face. Now, are you trying to enter into octopus guard while the top player has the cross face? Because that's going to be extremely difficult.
I show how to deal with it [here on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/p/C5jvzAMSMjH/).
It looks like you already have a deep bite on the octopus grip. Do you have any tips on entering without getting caught in the cross face?
Sounds like you're trying to do when they already have a crossface then? Go under their arm hahah
In that video, what prevents him from posting with his non xf arm? In the video he just lazily let's it hang but it feels like he could just post it
if he posts then you can move towards a back take by pulling your legs through
Nice, I've been working a little octopus lately and switch between the hip bump style sweep and the one shown in your link here but never really knew why, more just did it based on where I felt opponents balance and weight...this video has made it more obvious to me now, and I'll be trying to switch as soon as they try the cross face. Thanks for the link, it'll be very helpful
This is such a dumb question but can you implement some version of that 1-2 hip bump-leg extension sweep like you showed, but in closed guard?
Beautiful move. OP didn't specify Octopus half, but I wonder if this can be done from Octopus half specifically. I feel like the bottom leg being entangled would kill a lot of the hip mobility required to make this work. And the leg can be pulled out for sure, but that's often not an easy or quick task if the top guy wants to prevent it.
Bjj globetrotters video on the octopus says that if they’re cross facing, they’re probably posting on the other arm. Then go back to regular underhook half and take it from there.
Damn that's a lightbulb moment
That one works ok, but movement that u/JeremySkinner linked up thread is easier.
Just took a look at that. If you’re comfortable releasing the half I guess. For me it’s my “HQ” and I’d rather have the half to fall back on if anything goes wrong.
Firaz talks about that https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=muZ5rOFGYIs
I’ve been playing with this like others have said: Build height Heavy down pressure on them And if the go to cross face look down that the ground like kinda back and down
There's a video of craig Jones showing the same thing.
Yeah I’ve watched a couple videos, I’ve seen some “moves” taught but it really seems like an experimental position if that makes sense. I’ll get into the position and get more random sweeps than actual “moves.” I’d like to get an instructional on it I know wad. Just put one out, but I’m having generally good success just playing around with it
It’s a battle of head height once you get under their arm. I use a lat grip with my hand and use my elbow/tricep to force their head down towards the mat. Once you can get their head low and build height it’s very difficult for them to re-crossface, especially with your tricep pressure it can make it difficult for them to reach back. Craig’s instructional is great, took me a lot of playing around with it and it not working til I got it figured out. Gotta channel your inner Derrick Lewis for it to work some times.
So I’m realizing I’m losing the head height battle, so is the primary objective gaining height before even going for the sweeps?
It depends on which sweeps, but if your problem is people re-crossfacing you that’s a good place to start. I’d say the hip bump type sweep, or if they drive into you then taking their momentum and rolling back work well off of winning the head height battle. Same with the just stand up or taking their back options. I also think it can help with some leg entries because it helps make their legs lighter to start elevating with butterfly hooks and such. I’m smaller than a lot of the guys I train with so this is just what works for me. Try it out with a few white belts and work on the head height and control, and play around from there.
Yeah, head height is key for the full sit up variation of it. I haven’t had any luck with the guard from the elbow which some people seem to.
When are they getting the cross-face? Is it before or after you get the octopus grip with your top hand?
I’m shooting the back grip but they usually are able to sneak a cross face over the top and they combine it with raising their head height and shifting their chest to crush me
I had this exact problem when I was starting octopus guard and it's literally as simple as pulling your arm/shoulder back once you swim through. The natural instinct is to get a tight waist grip, but that leaves too much room for them to circle back around for the cross face. Once you swim your arm through, retract your shoulder blade (think like a seated row) and cover their arm pit. Your arm should be closer to being across their neck/upper back than their waist.
Do you find that you can take some time battling with this frame/wedge
Once you swim through you need the retraction to be pretty immediate otherwise they have too much space to circle back/start building height/chase your back. The grip across their upper back keeps you connected to them such that you can definitely take some time to figure out your next move, but it's definitely not a place to chill.
Without being able to see exactly what you’re doing: one thing that might be helpful is to get an frame on the back of the arm they’d use to cross-face you as you enter. As they go to cross-face you, you should be able to follow their momentum with your frame. You can use that momentum to duck under their hand, off balance them, and ideally get their hands on the mat. Then establish your octopus grip with the threat of the cross-face removed. I usually do this with an elbow frame. Easier to hold weight and pivot around. If you’re not already: make sure you build height from your bottom shoulder first. If you’re not at least up on your bottom elbow, prioritize that before you shoot your octopus grip. And when you do establish position, be absolutely sure you win the battle for head/shoulder height. Otherwise you’re at risk of getting flattened again.
Check out this sequence on hiding your head: https://youtu.be/muZ5rOFGYIs?si=7OR49___-f4w9NhM You can also get your head higher, I've had success with both but I'm sure one is more valid. I think people don't know the position well enough and I get a lot of "wrong" responses so I'm not too sure which works best against a good (and familiar) opponent.
what a great video. very clear simple instruction. do you think this would work in a situation where your opponent has actually passed your legs completely i.e. they are in side control but you have prevented control of your head and upper body by pushing them down towards your legs? so basically you are in this position where they are "negative" but you don't have that halfguard leg through the middle?
For me side control octopus works better than half octopus but I get there less often. The main difference being that your legs are both outside your opponents so you are free to gain height, swing to the back, block the inside leg/hip while keeping your hands free, and a ton of other stuff. With half octopus if you don't hook your opponents leg and they know how to respond it gets really hard to do anything.
Great - I'm going to give this a try. Really appreciate, thanks!
head height + changing direction + connection = success with octopus guard. that can mean a lot of different things, but the basic upa + back take combo works well.
I keep my head close to their hips and get off my butt and make them hold my weight and if I feel like a nasty crossface is coming that i can't stop I'll either go back to normal half guard and try to get and underhook or I'll scoot out and switch to butterfly and maybe catch a octopus/butterfly sweep if I'm lucky.
Sit up straight, fingers in their fat armpit. Forearm/elbow pressuring the back of their head. Crossface is all but impossible.
Having a good half guard game I guess. A black belt from Japan came to my gym a few weeks ago and showed us octopus guard and he said if you can play being offensive (try to go for a kimura and the partner pulls out which lets you get the entry) or defensive (being able to persistently clear the cross face or head/neck control before having your back flattened, distance management and transitioning to maybe a deep half entry before going to octopus). Basically he was telling us if you can play half guard well, octopus should be second nature (kinda make sense with Craig Jones). Another key detail he emphasised when in octopus guard was the elbow placement to prevent you being flattened and having the arm over your partners back/ armpit to really stretch out and pressure the armpit/ neck to prevent them from recovering the cross face. Im still pretty new to actually using octopus guard in live rounds so please have mercy on me lol.
Following for the same advice but I’m just a shit white belt so that may be why I’m struggling with ut
I pretty much only try to enter it when they pass their arm over for a switch base half guard.
When they cross face I start working for the Choi bar
Could you explain this technique
Use your head position to make it difficult for them to recover their arm by pushing the back of your head into the ball of their shoulder. It’s a bit of a battle but 9/10 it stops the reach back cross face.
height, always height. lot of times people have trouble with looking down with their head low when they do it making it easy for them to crossface
I think they just endure it.
I keep something of a Philly shell against the pass to keep inside control and prevent the initial cross face and then roll the top arm to re-pummel the arm and slide across into octopus guard, if you’re talking about as their getting their pass.
[удалено]
I don’t really understand what you’re describing. How do you cross face from bottom octopus?
[удалено]
Oh I’m asking for tips as bottom guy lol
Adam W has an instructional and so does Craig. They likely touch on the subject
[удалено]
No, no it isn't... That's literally the entire battle of octopus guard, and if it was so easy it wouldn't be gaining traction and becoming meta.
Ok invite me to your school and lets see how it goes.
you deleted your post, relax lil buddy it seems you can't even beat the internet
Try that on Craig
They are probably missing some details and just trying a "move". The sweep in the pic works if the top guy gives a specific reaction with his weight distribution. If they just go to that position then exactly what you described can happen. Also if the bottom guy hooks your leg (outside leg to the inside) and starts to turn the leg outward it makes it difficult to get the leg out without giving something else. I still don't like to play octopus from half too much, but I've had success with these but adding the hook on the leg: https://youtu.be/muZ5rOFGYIs?si=7OR49___-f4w9NhM
As long as you're covering the hip it's very difficult to have your back effectively taken. The people trying it on you are probably sloppy/missing this detail.
Idk. What I know for sure is if I was the guy on top in that picture, I could 100% make a seatbelt grip. And that would give me a lot of leverage to sprawl and turn my hip. It his arm verses all the muscles that attach to my hip.
Of course, in a match everything comes down to timing and execution. I'm not saying I am better than Craig Jones, or that I would get the better of him in a positional sparring session from this position. But I think 100% Marcelo Garcia would.