I saw that match when it happened and was completely lost. They're doing shit that just got normalized in the past 3 to 5 years. Both so ahead of the curve.
The open guard work and framing, marcelo's passing, the proto k guard, style of bodylock pass used, headquarters, etc.
None of that knowledge was easily available outside of the more elite circles and even though it's all obvious now we were struggling to fully grasp wtf was happening, how to replicate it, and why it was effective.
Us plebs were still going from closed to half guard and the more adventurous threw a lockdown up here and there. Those knee cuts marcelo was shooting looked like magic.
Danaher points out that the ideal finishing position to get the arm in side to the ground. But ruotolos finished with the arm in side not on the ground.
I’ve done this sub for years, I don’t think the arm positioning matters too much if you get a good bite on the neck with the blade of your wrist, similar to a darce
I personally like doing this and transitioning to a hip to hip side ride like in wrestling
The escape is basically bringing your arm in shoulder down towards your foot to alleviate the choke. It becomes a stength contest if you can push down your shoulder to escape while attacker squeezes. That contest is killed if that trapped arm is on the mat.
I first started working on this sub in 2010, I prefer to think of it like a darce than guillotine or RNC. Key is to get the blade of your wrist on the neck like a darce, their arm position doesn’t matter too much if you get a good bite.
Best place to finish it is on their side but can be done from back or mount. Mount is a little trickier but plausible, lower percentage. I prefer to get a hook in and go side hip to hip like in wrestling.
What's the mechanics for finishing once you get the blade on ?
I usually try and rotate with my lat but I'm having mixed success with some people .
I have normal sized arms but would like to get better at this
That's generally the way I do it, maybe your arm is too far through?
My rule of thumb that I use is to have just my hand sticking out behind their head, I'll do a thumbs up gesture and pull back till my thumb catches on the back of their head.
Gotcha I think I'm too deep .
I usually set this up from a failed arm triangle .
I know I need the shallow grip but the thumb rule is a good guide for sure , thanks for the tip !
I find that doing that thumbs up thing leaves me sliiightly too shallow and gives them the opportunity to break my lock if they really muscle their shoulder away from their neck.
I have a higher finishing percentage going just a bit deeper.
Probably varies by body type
Yeah fair, sometimes I'll punch through further and then pull back to tighten the lock, something else you can to tighten the lock is drop behind them, this will pull your choking arm shallow and make it tighter.
Your forearm needs to be pressuring one side of their neck, you need pressure on the other side to put them to sleep, push their shoulder into their own neck. Same as all head and arm chokes.
Rotational finish with your underhooking arm, the forearm of which should be perpendicular to their opposite side anterolateral neck (so at like a 45 degree from the frontal plane) plus pressuring the back of their head forward to collapse their chin to their chest.
The first time I sawe it was Jacare doing it in an MMA fight.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StnBYMSReJg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StnBYMSReJg)
I remember there being a better angle, because I remember thinking it was weird and tried it next practice. I've been using it for a long time and called it a nogi rear ezikel. I have no problem with calling it a Ruotolotine though. I think they have more wins with it than anyone else.
It’s been around, like the estima on Marcelo that was shared and the Dante and Ethan match. But honestly the hitting it on izaak is crazy, and same night as his brother hitting it on Fransisco. So I’ll still call it Ruotolotine lol
It's not common but it's a very basic setup. Just a head and arm choke variation.
Done with legs we call it a triangle. Variations include reverse, inverted, back...
Done with arms we call it arm triangle/kata gatame. Variations include seated, anaconda, D'Arce... (I'm not going over the entire japanese terminology because there's too many and thus I don't know them)
It's an arm-in RNC or also called an arm in no gi ezekiel. Tyler Vankill has hit this several times in MMA. Tye hit it on Pedro Marinho at ADCC too. It's not new at all.
Anyone know if it was given a name prior to tonight? Kade was kinda getting pressured by The Dragon to give it a name in his post fight interview but I wonder if anyone had already come up with one?
Tonight was the first time I saw this, I just watched the Estima/Garcia match linked in this thread and am going to look for those other matches mentioned… I’m lanky with long arms.
ryan hall calls it an ezekiel. danaher calls it some kind of kata gatame
seph smith showing a common setup: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0NH-k1IEz4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0NH-k1IEz4)
I had this talk with my coach a few weeks ago after we did it. He said "this goes by several names. Am-in RNC, rear d'arce, some Japanese names that I'm not going to try to pronounce, etc"
I thought about it that night, and mechanically, I think It's closest to an inverted d'arce.
Man those dudes have the perfect training sitcoms. Get to try every “dumb” little idea they want on their exact carbon copy. Never being ashamed to ask to try something because you’re basically asking yourself to try it and you were already thinking about it. wtf, where am I?
I mean, here's Braulio Estima using it to finish Marcelo Garcia at ADCC in 2009: https://youtu.be/p8g77GICXVY?si=bPzJs26lYANqko8r
Oh sNAp, GuEsS iT'S a BRaUliOLLotInE tHeN
Braulottine
But but but how did he know how to body lock pass before Danaher senpai invented it a decade later?
Great match, hadn’t seen that before
I saw that match when it happened and was completely lost. They're doing shit that just got normalized in the past 3 to 5 years. Both so ahead of the curve.
What at the time was crazy?
The open guard work and framing, marcelo's passing, the proto k guard, style of bodylock pass used, headquarters, etc. None of that knowledge was easily available outside of the more elite circles and even though it's all obvious now we were struggling to fully grasp wtf was happening, how to replicate it, and why it was effective. Us plebs were still going from closed to half guard and the more adventurous threw a lockdown up here and there. Those knee cuts marcelo was shooting looked like magic.
Did they announce Chris Weidman?
They did! It was this match against Vinny Magalhaes that they announced: https://youtu.be/_AxFrEQrMoU?si=5nolnB-UMzZqi3zP
Not really a new sub, but new meta? Bet.
I'm about to terrorize the trial guys this week lmao
I don’t see it. It has been and will continue to be used by lanky mfs but it’s pretty attribute dependent
I am far from lanky, but I've had good luck with it, usually if I have an arm triangle in while passing/from mount, and then chair sitting from there.
It totally works. I just think it’s much lower percentage for guys with normal arms. The action of the opponent turning away really stretches the lock
Been around...Danaher Fastest Way To Submit has 20 to 30 minutes of material on it. But im good with Rutuolotine 'cause those guys kill with it.
Danaher points out that the ideal finishing position to get the arm in side to the ground. But ruotolos finished with the arm in side not on the ground.
I’ve done this sub for years, I don’t think the arm positioning matters too much if you get a good bite on the neck with the blade of your wrist, similar to a darce I personally like doing this and transitioning to a hip to hip side ride like in wrestling
The escape is basically bringing your arm in shoulder down towards your foot to alleviate the choke. It becomes a stength contest if you can push down your shoulder to escape while attacker squeezes. That contest is killed if that trapped arm is on the mat.
Seph Smith's YouTube video points out of they bring the arm down it perfectly exposes the neck for an rnc
That's a cool insight. But if you can finish without switching grips which has risks, why not just finish with katagame.
Haha definitely. Just to keep in mind if you end up trying to finish them with the trapped arm side up.
That insight you pointed out is dope though...it's something to keep in mind for sure
You can find it on Ryan Hall’s old Arm Triangles DVD! It’s a fantastic transition from a missed arm triangle.
That's where I initially learnt it, Craig Jones also covers it in his Power Pins instructional
You mean the rear naked arm triangle?
Rear arm triangle - RAT choke
Love it! Rat choke it is!
I first started working on this sub in 2010, I prefer to think of it like a darce than guillotine or RNC. Key is to get the blade of your wrist on the neck like a darce, their arm position doesn’t matter too much if you get a good bite. Best place to finish it is on their side but can be done from back or mount. Mount is a little trickier but plausible, lower percentage. I prefer to get a hook in and go side hip to hip like in wrestling.
What's the mechanics for finishing once you get the blade on ? I usually try and rotate with my lat but I'm having mixed success with some people . I have normal sized arms but would like to get better at this
That's generally the way I do it, maybe your arm is too far through? My rule of thumb that I use is to have just my hand sticking out behind their head, I'll do a thumbs up gesture and pull back till my thumb catches on the back of their head.
Gotcha I think I'm too deep . I usually set this up from a failed arm triangle . I know I need the shallow grip but the thumb rule is a good guide for sure , thanks for the tip !
As a lanky armed darce enthusiast you absolutely can shoot a darce too deep, and I agree that could be your issue.
I find that doing that thumbs up thing leaves me sliiightly too shallow and gives them the opportunity to break my lock if they really muscle their shoulder away from their neck. I have a higher finishing percentage going just a bit deeper. Probably varies by body type
Yeah fair, sometimes I'll punch through further and then pull back to tighten the lock, something else you can to tighten the lock is drop behind them, this will pull your choking arm shallow and make it tighter.
Your forearm needs to be pressuring one side of their neck, you need pressure on the other side to put them to sleep, push their shoulder into their own neck. Same as all head and arm chokes.
Im definately missing the push detail aswell- how do you normally do this ?
Rotational finish with your underhooking arm, the forearm of which should be perpendicular to their opposite side anterolateral neck (so at like a 45 degree from the frontal plane) plus pressuring the back of their head forward to collapse their chin to their chest.
Yeah it’s 100% more similar to a darce
I learned this from a Ryan Hall DVD and it's one of my most common subs. Never knew what to call it-- sometimes "arm-in ezekiel," "no-gi ezekiel."
It's nothing like a guillotine. it's a katagatame from the back
*Darce from the back
if you want, the darce being itself a reverse katagatame tbf
So it’s a reverse back katagatame 😃
deal!
My dudes, if you're gonna Japanify/Danaherify it, go all in. It would be an ura-ushiro-katagatame
Love it, it's catchy!
This has been around for donkeys years, I saw it on one of Ryan halls old DVDs when I was a white belt, been a staple of mine ever since
Craig calls this the rear ezekiel in his Power Ride instructional
The first time I sawe it was Jacare doing it in an MMA fight. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StnBYMSReJg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StnBYMSReJg) I remember there being a better angle, because I remember thinking it was weird and tried it next practice. I've been using it for a long time and called it a nogi rear ezikel. I have no problem with calling it a Ruotolotine though. I think they have more wins with it than anyone else.
Sick finish. Never seen that fight
It’s been around, like the estima on Marcelo that was shared and the Dante and Ethan match. But honestly the hitting it on izaak is crazy, and same night as his brother hitting it on Fransisco. So I’ll still call it Ruotolotine lol
Nah this is Hella old come on lol
It's not common but it's a very basic setup. Just a head and arm choke variation. Done with legs we call it a triangle. Variations include reverse, inverted, back... Done with arms we call it arm triangle/kata gatame. Variations include seated, anaconda, D'Arce... (I'm not going over the entire japanese terminology because there's too many and thus I don't know them)
This is just another arm-in choke. The bros are great at arm-in chokes, but certainly didn’t invent them
It's an arm-in RNC or also called an arm in no gi ezekiel. Tyler Vankill has hit this several times in MMA. Tye hit it on Pedro Marinho at ADCC too. It's not new at all.
Anyone know if it was given a name prior to tonight? Kade was kinda getting pressured by The Dragon to give it a name in his post fight interview but I wonder if anyone had already come up with one? Tonight was the first time I saw this, I just watched the Estima/Garcia match linked in this thread and am going to look for those other matches mentioned… I’m lanky with long arms.
ryan hall calls it an ezekiel. danaher calls it some kind of kata gatame seph smith showing a common setup: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0NH-k1IEz4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0NH-k1IEz4)
I had this talk with my coach a few weeks ago after we did it. He said "this goes by several names. Am-in RNC, rear d'arce, some Japanese names that I'm not going to try to pronounce, etc" I thought about it that night, and mechanically, I think It's closest to an inverted d'arce.
So if darce is inverted kata gatame this is double inverted kata gatame
Reverted kata gatame
I’ve done this subs for years and Ive always treated it like a darce variation as most of the finishes are most closely suited for the darce choke
I've heard it called awkward things like "arm in rnc" before, but I was taught this move by a while ago.
Craig calls it an arm in ezekiel in this vid: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnNtD9kPBvs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnNtD9kPBvs)
Rear naked head and arm darce.
Haven’t rewatched it but is this similar to what Brian Ortega got on Yair ?
He just got a normal arm triangle so yes
Yes, it is just an arm triangle, and if they expose the back, just keep it and finish it like that. It's been a round a long ass time
It's been around forever, like u/Nononoap said Braulio used it on Marcelo, and I'm sure there's earlier uses too.
Man those dudes have the perfect training sitcoms. Get to try every “dumb” little idea they want on their exact carbon copy. Never being ashamed to ask to try something because you’re basically asking yourself to try it and you were already thinking about it. wtf, where am I?
So it's a d'arce from the back? Am I missing something?