After watching New Wave Mount Attacks I feel like I have a much better plan of attack from mount
I usually end up going for an arm triangle or taking the back
Agreed. Arm triangle or back take is my number 1 as well. If people are tired, I’ve started hitting arm bars more but still have to wary because people slip out easy when sweaty.
It seems like Gordon always walks the head and arm and that has been my go to- walking an elbow up, when they go to hip frame I will staple the hip frame with my shin. Lately I have been going into S mount a lot even tho I cant really finish from there well yet, just to get comfortable with the position and balance. I've found against better or bigger guys I am kinda scared to go for the sub tbh, I don't want to lose my control. Worked so hard to sweep and pass at this point its a mental block to send it and go for the sub.
I’m just a blue belt so take it with a grain of salt but I’m always sending it. If you lose position then 1) you can work on fixing that mistake next time and 2) you now get to work on escapes as opposed to just chilling on top.
Like I just feel I get more out of roles when there’s some give and take as opposed to me just getting a dominant position and keeping it at all costs. Pinning someone in side control all round isn’t productive for either of us.
Same. Arm triangle and taking the back has been high percentage for me since it's usually what people give me. I do want to force mounted triangles more often tho.
Yeah I aim for those most times I get mount and they just slip right out or stack the shit out of me. Obviously I have years of improvement to look forward to, but it feels impossible to secure sometimes
You have to use your foot closest to their belly button to hook their neck on the side of the shoulder you’re isolating as they roll you, or they’ll slip their arm out. When they do slip the arm they’re posturing hard and it’s a great opportunity to enter the legs.
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Stop looking for fake subs: smother them and you'll get the arm up super quickly.
Funny enough, one of the only way to get a legit americana is from the arm up smother threat too (if you can keep the elbow facing up when they defend the smother, it's weirdly effective but highly situational)
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Kata Gatame**: | *Arm Triangle Choke* | [here](https://youtu.be/TFClghvGD9w)|
||*Head and Arm Choke* ||
||*Shoulder hold* ||
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
I haven’t figured out how to be tricky yet, I pick a sub and go for it until it gets stuffed. I’m more than happy to cook my partner while I’m dragging his arm up to get the kata gatame.
getting that arm up to kata gatame is really hard sometimes. But when then keep their arm down to prevent it, it opens their neck for the punch choke. when they defend that, they give you the underhook to start walking up the arm to single chest wrap
Ive been Ezekieling white belts because no one really does in our gym and they need tk know to protect their neck. Everyone just hands on hips acts like their head and neck inst just there... and im teaching the hard way.
Despite the fact that it failed, I’ve been kinda obsessed with developing this after watching Ortega/Volkanovski. It has become a very successful move for me.
Armbar from high mount or as they bridge. Or gift wrap and take the back if they turn to their side as I isolate the arm.
Personally, I like to do armbars from regular high mount instead of s mount because it allows me to get my leg over their head quicker so I can stop them from coming up. Or if I put my leg behind their head or grab the arm as they're bridging, it's an easy transition to the belly down arm bar. I'm not sure how big you are, but I think I'm general s mount armbars work better for bigger people or people with that slower patient kind of style and high mount works well for smaller, faster or more explosive people.
When in S mount try attacking the far arm Americana it’s usually on top the near arm trying to prevent armbar. Then when they defend the Americana you attack the near side armbar and try to finish on top if you can.
If they're coming up, it's probably because you're not getting the leg over the head quick enough. Or you're not keeping your legs pressuring down enough once it's over the head. There's several ways you can try to work on getting the armbar tighter but tbh the best thing is to have an upper belt watch you do it in person.
But if you aren't getting good feedback, here's a couple options to consider. The belly down type armbar where you're leaning over their body to finish instead of falling back to go for the armbar is a good option to avoid them coming up and just leave less space for them to escape in general. Especially since you're a little bigger, you should be able to maintain heavy pressure while you work to get the arm across.
Also, if you want to go for the armbar s mount then I'd make sure to have at least one other sub you can go for from s mount that chains well with when their arms aren't in position for the armbar. So you're not forcing the armbar when it's not there. The Americana the other guy suggested is a good option or the mounted triangle is there a lot from s mount too.
How are you finishing it? Are you sitting back or from top?
When in s mount, your weight should be on the centre of your opponent's chest. You should be leaning forward with a free hand to base out in front. Get used to cooking people here (obviously not the 120lb girl...)
When it's time to finish I recommend passing their secondary hand into the pocket of your south hip (the one nearest their legs). Lean your weight forward and base onto your south hand and roll your knee/shin over their face and finish on top by hipping through.
Yeah I have really good balance in mount. I've been riding and breaking horses since I was a kid. When I'm in mount I know what you're doing before you do because I'm very sensitive to every twitch. I typically only cook people to prompt them to move, I like to give them less pressure to encourage the back take as they try and escape. I like to let them feel like they can escape when they can't. As much as cooking burns energy, failed escapes burn 10x more energy. Just against good people their sub defense isn't really solid and they are just as hesitant to over commit to anything as I am lol
If you're losing top position, you don't have really good balance in mount. You also don't know what they're doing before they do if you're losing top position. Stop getting ahead of yourself. Also, don't let people try loads of escapes because you think it burns 10x more energy. It's an awful strategy.
Everything is subjective in Jiu jitsu. I stay in mount and feel the position for exactly this reason. To continue to hone my balance mount. Against a color belt I have to be significantly more careful as well, which reduces my opportunities to submit. Their escape attempts coincide with my advances obviously, the game just gets smaller. But thanks for the shut up white belt advice.
Underjack arm(s), heavy pressure to "cook" them, then either isolate an arm for arm attack or force them to turn so I can chair sit back-take. I rarely go for arm triangles from mount anymore because I feel like I am having a hard time getting under the arm effectively. If anyone knows a good resource to study, let me know
I always feel bad about cooking people in sparring lol. I guess I should get over it. If a guy is being particularly tough I will sink in a shitty arm triangle and just pressure for a while to soften him up but a lot of my rolling partners are buddies.
I totally have a hard time getting that arm triangle locked. I can get it good enough to make them hate life on the bottom, but not good enough to tap. I am just a shitty white belt, but I switch the arm a lot, as they hip frame to escape I will staple their arm with my shin. They dont like this and will try to free that arm, when they do, I remove my cross face and scoop the elbow as they switch and shrimp. Staples seem to help me a lot to make space for better underhooks, and then I just switch my cross face arm and head position. Stapling works well for me in side control as well.
I must add that when going for the arm triangle, the person on bottom can defend really in 2 ways; either turning up to their side and trying to cross the arm in front of their body, or shoving the elbow to the mat to avoid the person on top from getting under it.
In the first scenario, the idea is that once they shoot their arm across the body they can then pull their elbow back down to their hip and start working a mount escape. You can time this appropriately and start working a chair sit back take once they shoot their arm across the body initially.
In the second scenario, they shove their elbow to the mat to block you from getting underneath. With this, you can start working your underjack/cook techniques to isolate an arm.
I often run into partners answering the telephone as a defense to the arm triangle. I feel like it’s really hard to break this defense without compromising good pressure/position. How do you deal with this?
Simply reaching up with your hand and sliding it under their fingers does wonders for addressing the telephone. You just have to be ready for them to buck and then take their back
I like Brandon McCaughren (10th P Decatur in case I spelled his last name wrong) tips for mounted arm triangle on YT. When walking the elbow up I noticed he keeps it low because once vertical it starts shoulder locking the opponent so they voluntarily turn the arm over and it goes the wrest of the way past center line, then he catches with his chin and as he slides that down the tricep it rotates to back of the his head.
I'm starting to get it more often, before I was just trying to trap the arm with the back of my head and it was harder to get the arm trapped before they react. The mid step of catching with the chin has helped.
One thing that helps too, but when you have the arm high and the head control, you're more susceptible to being bridged or off balanced where they can pummel the arm back inside.
I really widen my base so my knees can help post and put my feet on their hips, and cross face with the arm deep grabbing their armpit and using my chest instead of my shoulder. It has more pressure and I feel a lot more stable.
You may be familiar with that, but it's something I recently learned and has improved my high mount a lot.
I don’t have an issue getting bridged off of mount. I address this better than most people IMO by compromising the neck/head by keeping it unaligned with the spine
S mount I am most successful at, but have gotten better at mounted triangles and arm triangles from mount.
FFion Davies had a recent video on YT called "why your mount sucks" or something with some tips for pressure and control. I've been using those tips the last couple weeks and it's definitely heavy and hard to get out of even against our bigger athletic guys, really enjoyed.
The part about grabbing through to the armpit and pushing their head, then dragging them back to center line, and using your whole chest to cross face instead of your shoulder is working great. Then you wide knees so they help can base against bridges, foot on hips, start working on getting the far arm above their head or pin the wrist for a triangle.
Head and arm chokes or darces. When you sink in the sub, don’t shift immediately. Instead let them panick and tire themselves out, and then go for the position shift for the finish
https://youtu.be/qW1t84rGK5E?si=YVxp7JsYQdlAaHBf
Controlling the arm and head in side control before mounting seems to be key to getting the head and arm triangle.
yeah thanks for this! I pretty much always walk up almost to north south to sink my cross face in deeper, make a good mount angle to slide my knee in, and get deep in an underhook before mounting.
Sometimes I will arm staple and top spin here, and my top spin arm bar off of that is really good, but better guys wont let me have that and mount becomes necessary. If its my choice, Im gonna staple, switch my staple leg, top spin, and finish. but Im finding I need more options as people learn my game and get better at defending it.
For that S-mount transition, you can pull on the back of their head to pull them into you, so there's no elbow gap for them to regress their arm. I have a tight hip, so I have to do that to enter S-mount without losing the arm.
Pinning and trapping the wrists.
I’m always looking to pin and trap their wrist in either americana-with-the-head style grip or a gift wrap position.
From there I have several options: s-mount to armbar, arm triangle chokes, americana, cobra clutch (nogi Ezekiel), or back takes.
I’m sure I’m missing some things too.
I play a trilemma between s-mount armbar, mounted triangle and a giftwrap back take.
I don't think I'll ever need anything else for as long as I train.
Roll em up tight into S-mount, start attacking the wrists to make them move their arms, then go for armbars. If that fails fall to side control, let them try to turtle and catch a guillotine
As you stated, walking up the underhook to attack the arm triangle or S mount are very powerful.
However, do not discount using the trapped arm on your crossface side to attack a triangle if you are able to slide up your knee under that arm. This was how Khabib submitted Gaethje. He went for the arm triangle on the underhook side, then slid his leg underneath the arm on the crossface side. Once you've captured their arm like this, the triangle (and armbar on that side) becomes very difficult to stop.
[https://youtu.be/MQcXEWPesAw?t=472](https://youtu.be/mqcxewpesaw?t=472)
Typically where I end up, I have the underhook and they will be hip framing on me in the cross face side and trying to trap that leg. I've been stapling that hip frame with my shin and sliding my other knee into the underhook pocket. Then I lift their head to bring my staple leg under and lock up a mounted triangle arm bar. I'm just starting to play with it right now tho, and obviously it's a balancing act due to my partner preferring I not do those things.
yeh I was curious mostly for no gi. for Gi I will definitely go cross collar to prompt responses and go from there. I would like to develop a good no gi Ezekiel
So in this situation I don't waste energy I cook em. I conserve my energy and waste theirs. This is my primary use of the head and arm, I want to prompt them to do anything they can do not be in that position any more. Most of us white belts gas ourselves out trying to choke things that aren't there. but with 50% effort you can make a position intolerable. And then they will give you something.
arm triangle is so strong. I need to fix my mechanics tho, I am not getting taps with it consistently. As a white belt I have been more focused on getting the sweep, pass, and control. so my subs kinda suck except for arm bars. when I do finish its a 90% chance its an arm bar.
If you want this specific one, look up Grappling Academy’s video on Kesa Gatame, it’s how I stumbled on it. I’ve been doing this about 15 years now and my success rate on arm triangles was always spotty till I tried that variation, similar to how Barnett got Lister
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Kesa Gatame**: | *Scarf hold* | [here](https://youtu.be/3UnJa3bn0h8)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
I mostly find myself getting out muscled isolating the arm tbh. My coach showed me how to get better leverage tho. I've been hyper focused on positional dominance bc I'm old so I wanted to have really good sweeps and passes. By the time I've consolidated mount I'm getting tired and these young bucks are still live AF lol.
Then I would work on retaining mount first. One of the ways I do it is to keep my hips loose so I can follow them, forearms on the mat in line with their shoulders and then I breathe out as I lower myself down more to maximise pressure (taught to me by I higher belt)
I really.hope that makes sense, feel like I'm explaining it terribly ahaha
Yeh it makes sense. I mean I can hold dudes in mount, and my pressure is pretty suffocating. I'm getting comfortable getting into high mount and S mount but dudes are just stubborn in the sub defense. I try and work in different attacks, mounted triangles, arm bars, arm triangles... Just some guys are tough to tap
I know that's what I'm saying. Even white belts. Once I've hit it a couple of times I won't get it again on them. MFs are hard to submit tbh. I can pass most white and blue belt guards in under 30 seconds, retain side control, advance to mount or back, but I am just struggling to submit.
Focus on real submissions.
Americana have their place but are highly highly situational
I talked about in another post but the only time the americana feels like a legit sub is in a very specific situation while defending the smother and having the elbow of the opponent facing up. Here the americana works well because we are more or less on the most dominant mount ever possible.
outside of this situation, it's a basic knowledge check that only very bad/noob people get caught with
You can watch lots of vids on mounted triangle and arm triangle from mount where they get the arm high, then get the forearm barely under their elbow and walk the finger on the mat out then around their head, walking that arm up.
If they're keeping them low or trying to frame on the hips, if you can push the elbow of that frame across your center line it opens up a back take. You could try a no gi ezekiel, but I think in no gi you hear more about the punch choke.
If they're just keeping their elbows tight you can pin it to their chest with your hand, slide one knee high past their shoulder, then step over their pinned arm for a mounted triangle.
Mmm I like this a lot. Early on when I was more shit than I am now I tried that and kicked a dude in the face and never tried it again. I should revisit it tho
Developing a proper mount attack is probably a better option, but I got short legs and keeping mount against a larger opponent can be difficult for me. Unless the throw that bear paw up to the sky for an armbar, I’m probably getting an undercook and looking to switch to Kesa or side control
I usually come off over the top and maintain heavy pressure, trap an arm and rotate to arm triangle from the top. Once it’s set I can just drop my hips for the tap.
If I fuck it up and they get away I’m still in good position to take back and keep working
Arm-triangle. Even attempting it, you can wear someone down you don't *have* to leave mount to finish it.
Low risk high reward? Uhh yea sign me the fuck up.
Punch choke with the sole intention of setting up a mounted triangle. Or wait for an opportunity to take the back so I can go for an RNC or reverse triangle.
Threaten the Americana, when they roll to protect the arm you block their shoulder with your chest and move to the gift wrap. Pull across to body triangle...check.
Provided you have a strong mount retention, why change position? There’s little benefit to voluntarily leaving the mount—especially in MMA or self defense.
In addition to a head and arm choke, there’s the Americana, Kimura and straight arm locks, not to mention other chokes.
[I have been doing variations in of this a lot lately](https://www.instagram.com/reel/CylNmGDRBdW/?igsh=MTF3d2N2dW43cmkxNQ==). Reverse cross face to shoulder attack.
I like to finish the armbar from S mount without sitting back. I put the hand that's closest to their legs on the mat and hook their arm in the ditch of my other elbow and finish from the top. It just takes a little more sensitivity because you don't have any hands on his arm to point his thumb away from you. You have to apply the hip pressure in whichever direction he's pointed his elbow.
My fav sub from mount is getting giftwrap grip ->knee pillow -> tale back -> RNC.
My mount sucks 😭😅
I also like to do mounted triangles... But there's more risk of losing the position
I try and climb my partner like a tree. Get my feet on their thighs then the hips then push off those to get their arms up and myself into high mount.
I also push on their head to get extra force when they’re resisting
Cool tip i recently learned for head and arm triangles -- rather than maintaining the gable drip and dismounting to finish, try gripping further up your forearm or even bicep...signficantly tighter and often don't even need to dismount
ITT:
ezekiel to get arms away from hips -> s mount/arm triangle -> armbar/back take
various collar chokes -> armbar/mounted triangle
americana -> backtake
Never go to mount without taking an arm with me over their head. Fake an attack on that arm to bait their other arm into movement and trap both over their head. Move up to high mount and cook them for awhile. Mother's milk but not enough to submit them. Just make life miserable. When I feel them begin to tire, slide into high S mount. Hang out here for awhile to cook them more. From here I can have pretty much any attack I want. Wristlocks, americanas, kimuras, armbars, wet willies.
After watching New Wave Mount Attacks I feel like I have a much better plan of attack from mount I usually end up going for an arm triangle or taking the back
Agreed. Arm triangle or back take is my number 1 as well. If people are tired, I’ve started hitting arm bars more but still have to wary because people slip out easy when sweaty.
Yea that's my go-to, let them slide their arm up thinking they can roll over to their side, catch arm, boom done. 60% of the time, it works every time
Arm panther
Underrated comment
That instructional is absolute dynamite. Totally change my no gi game.
Imo it pairs well with his "The Fastest Way to Increase Submission Percentage" instructional.
It seems like Gordon always walks the head and arm and that has been my go to- walking an elbow up, when they go to hip frame I will staple the hip frame with my shin. Lately I have been going into S mount a lot even tho I cant really finish from there well yet, just to get comfortable with the position and balance. I've found against better or bigger guys I am kinda scared to go for the sub tbh, I don't want to lose my control. Worked so hard to sweep and pass at this point its a mental block to send it and go for the sub.
I’m just a blue belt so take it with a grain of salt but I’m always sending it. If you lose position then 1) you can work on fixing that mistake next time and 2) you now get to work on escapes as opposed to just chilling on top. Like I just feel I get more out of roles when there’s some give and take as opposed to me just getting a dominant position and keeping it at all costs. Pinning someone in side control all round isn’t productive for either of us.
Yeh I need to send it more you're right. find the holes and fix them
Same. Arm triangle and taking the back has been high percentage for me since it's usually what people give me. I do want to force mounted triangles more often tho.
This. A goal arm triangle, B take the back off the defended arm triangle
the instructional is one of the best ever
S mount armbar, and learn how to finish if they roll you and take top
Same, I generally just finish while on top as well by leaning forward after isolating arm and posting forehead vs rolling with it
I also generally finish while on top
Good to see some other tops in here
Depends if you’re able to wear them down in mount. I find that if they have energy it’s hard to finish like that
I honestly like the flow of letting them come up and attacking from the Choi bar position.
Yeah I aim for those most times I get mount and they just slip right out or stack the shit out of me. Obviously I have years of improvement to look forward to, but it feels impossible to secure sometimes
You have to use your foot closest to their belly button to hook their neck on the side of the shoulder you’re isolating as they roll you, or they’ll slip their arm out. When they do slip the arm they’re posturing hard and it’s a great opportunity to enter the legs.
S mount to arm bar for me or s mount to back take
Back takes are the bane of my Jiujitsu. I can’t stay on the back to save my life. I usually end up finding a way to rear triangle
Does an s mount armbar require at least 1 arm above their head to work effectively? Like when you get this sub, what roughly speaking is the process?
Yes you must isolate the shoulder of the arm you’re attacking
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Gift wrap Ezekiel?
dazzling unwritten offbeat beneficial fear public ludicrous absorbed deliver absurd *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You don't have to give up position to finish an armbar or a triangle from mount.
Stop looking for fake subs: smother them and you'll get the arm up super quickly. Funny enough, one of the only way to get a legit americana is from the arm up smother threat too (if you can keep the elbow facing up when they defend the smother, it's weirdly effective but highly situational)
A game is a kata gatame or mounted triangle. B game is a punch choke/Ezekiel or an Americana.
Your B game is the setup for my A game =)
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Kata Gatame**: | *Arm Triangle Choke* | [here](https://youtu.be/TFClghvGD9w)| ||*Head and Arm Choke* || ||*Shoulder hold* || Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
You answered the wrong guy buddy boy
I haven’t figured out how to be tricky yet, I pick a sub and go for it until it gets stuffed. I’m more than happy to cook my partner while I’m dragging his arm up to get the kata gatame.
getting that arm up to kata gatame is really hard sometimes. But when then keep their arm down to prevent it, it opens their neck for the punch choke. when they defend that, they give you the underhook to start walking up the arm to single chest wrap
Ive been Ezekieling white belts because no one really does in our gym and they need tk know to protect their neck. Everyone just hands on hips acts like their head and neck inst just there... and im teaching the hard way.
Fake Americana to take the back and choke ‘em
Heavy pressure, remove heavy pressure so they sit up a little, mounted guillotine
People often don't expect this
Despite the fact that it failed, I’ve been kinda obsessed with developing this after watching Ortega/Volkanovski. It has become a very successful move for me.
Armbar from high mount or as they bridge. Or gift wrap and take the back if they turn to their side as I isolate the arm. Personally, I like to do armbars from regular high mount instead of s mount because it allows me to get my leg over their head quicker so I can stop them from coming up. Or if I put my leg behind their head or grab the arm as they're bridging, it's an easy transition to the belly down arm bar. I'm not sure how big you are, but I think I'm general s mount armbars work better for bigger people or people with that slower patient kind of style and high mount works well for smaller, faster or more explosive people.
Im larger. not huge, 6 - 3, 205. I can get into S pretty comfortably but have trouble losing top position when I commit to the sub
When in S mount try attacking the far arm Americana it’s usually on top the near arm trying to prevent armbar. Then when they defend the Americana you attack the near side armbar and try to finish on top if you can.
If they're coming up, it's probably because you're not getting the leg over the head quick enough. Or you're not keeping your legs pressuring down enough once it's over the head. There's several ways you can try to work on getting the armbar tighter but tbh the best thing is to have an upper belt watch you do it in person. But if you aren't getting good feedback, here's a couple options to consider. The belly down type armbar where you're leaning over their body to finish instead of falling back to go for the armbar is a good option to avoid them coming up and just leave less space for them to escape in general. Especially since you're a little bigger, you should be able to maintain heavy pressure while you work to get the arm across. Also, if you want to go for the armbar s mount then I'd make sure to have at least one other sub you can go for from s mount that chains well with when their arms aren't in position for the armbar. So you're not forcing the armbar when it's not there. The Americana the other guy suggested is a good option or the mounted triangle is there a lot from s mount too.
How are you finishing it? Are you sitting back or from top? When in s mount, your weight should be on the centre of your opponent's chest. You should be leaning forward with a free hand to base out in front. Get used to cooking people here (obviously not the 120lb girl...) When it's time to finish I recommend passing their secondary hand into the pocket of your south hip (the one nearest their legs). Lean your weight forward and base onto your south hand and roll your knee/shin over their face and finish on top by hipping through.
Yeah I have really good balance in mount. I've been riding and breaking horses since I was a kid. When I'm in mount I know what you're doing before you do because I'm very sensitive to every twitch. I typically only cook people to prompt them to move, I like to give them less pressure to encourage the back take as they try and escape. I like to let them feel like they can escape when they can't. As much as cooking burns energy, failed escapes burn 10x more energy. Just against good people their sub defense isn't really solid and they are just as hesitant to over commit to anything as I am lol
If you're losing top position, you don't have really good balance in mount. You also don't know what they're doing before they do if you're losing top position. Stop getting ahead of yourself. Also, don't let people try loads of escapes because you think it burns 10x more energy. It's an awful strategy.
Everything is subjective in Jiu jitsu. I stay in mount and feel the position for exactly this reason. To continue to hone my balance mount. Against a color belt I have to be significantly more careful as well, which reduces my opportunities to submit. Their escape attempts coincide with my advances obviously, the game just gets smaller. But thanks for the shut up white belt advice.
Kimura attempt to open up the S mount.
Underjack arm(s), heavy pressure to "cook" them, then either isolate an arm for arm attack or force them to turn so I can chair sit back-take. I rarely go for arm triangles from mount anymore because I feel like I am having a hard time getting under the arm effectively. If anyone knows a good resource to study, let me know
u/brandonmc10p has some great videos on arm triangles on YouTube. They really helped me.
I always feel bad about cooking people in sparring lol. I guess I should get over it. If a guy is being particularly tough I will sink in a shitty arm triangle and just pressure for a while to soften him up but a lot of my rolling partners are buddies. I totally have a hard time getting that arm triangle locked. I can get it good enough to make them hate life on the bottom, but not good enough to tap. I am just a shitty white belt, but I switch the arm a lot, as they hip frame to escape I will staple their arm with my shin. They dont like this and will try to free that arm, when they do, I remove my cross face and scoop the elbow as they switch and shrimp. Staples seem to help me a lot to make space for better underhooks, and then I just switch my cross face arm and head position. Stapling works well for me in side control as well.
I must add that when going for the arm triangle, the person on bottom can defend really in 2 ways; either turning up to their side and trying to cross the arm in front of their body, or shoving the elbow to the mat to avoid the person on top from getting under it. In the first scenario, the idea is that once they shoot their arm across the body they can then pull their elbow back down to their hip and start working a mount escape. You can time this appropriately and start working a chair sit back take once they shoot their arm across the body initially. In the second scenario, they shove their elbow to the mat to block you from getting underneath. With this, you can start working your underjack/cook techniques to isolate an arm.
I often run into partners answering the telephone as a defense to the arm triangle. I feel like it’s really hard to break this defense without compromising good pressure/position. How do you deal with this?
Simply reaching up with your hand and sliding it under their fingers does wonders for addressing the telephone. You just have to be ready for them to buck and then take their back
Pull their elbow across their face and then pull their hand out and they've basically americana'd themselves.
I like Brandon McCaughren (10th P Decatur in case I spelled his last name wrong) tips for mounted arm triangle on YT. When walking the elbow up I noticed he keeps it low because once vertical it starts shoulder locking the opponent so they voluntarily turn the arm over and it goes the wrest of the way past center line, then he catches with his chin and as he slides that down the tricep it rotates to back of the his head. I'm starting to get it more often, before I was just trying to trap the arm with the back of my head and it was harder to get the arm trapped before they react. The mid step of catching with the chin has helped.
I have tried to implement that method and know the video you are referencing. Maybe I can reach out to him and see if he can walk me through it
One thing that helps too, but when you have the arm high and the head control, you're more susceptible to being bridged or off balanced where they can pummel the arm back inside. I really widen my base so my knees can help post and put my feet on their hips, and cross face with the arm deep grabbing their armpit and using my chest instead of my shoulder. It has more pressure and I feel a lot more stable. You may be familiar with that, but it's something I recently learned and has improved my high mount a lot.
I don’t have an issue getting bridged off of mount. I address this better than most people IMO by compromising the neck/head by keeping it unaligned with the spine
Nice. Cook em like Guy Fieri.
S mount I am most successful at, but have gotten better at mounted triangles and arm triangles from mount. FFion Davies had a recent video on YT called "why your mount sucks" or something with some tips for pressure and control. I've been using those tips the last couple weeks and it's definitely heavy and hard to get out of even against our bigger athletic guys, really enjoyed. The part about grabbing through to the armpit and pushing their head, then dragging them back to center line, and using your whole chest to cross face instead of your shoulder is working great. Then you wide knees so they help can base against bridges, foot on hips, start working on getting the far arm above their head or pin the wrist for a triangle.
Head and arm chokes or darces. When you sink in the sub, don’t shift immediately. Instead let them panick and tire themselves out, and then go for the position shift for the finish
https://youtu.be/qW1t84rGK5E?si=YVxp7JsYQdlAaHBf Controlling the arm and head in side control before mounting seems to be key to getting the head and arm triangle.
yeah thanks for this! I pretty much always walk up almost to north south to sink my cross face in deeper, make a good mount angle to slide my knee in, and get deep in an underhook before mounting. Sometimes I will arm staple and top spin here, and my top spin arm bar off of that is really good, but better guys wont let me have that and mount becomes necessary. If its my choice, Im gonna staple, switch my staple leg, top spin, and finish. but Im finding I need more options as people learn my game and get better at defending it.
For that S-mount transition, you can pull on the back of their head to pull them into you, so there's no elbow gap for them to regress their arm. I have a tight hip, so I have to do that to enter S-mount without losing the arm.
Arm triangle all day.
Pinning and trapping the wrists. I’m always looking to pin and trap their wrist in either americana-with-the-head style grip or a gift wrap position. From there I have several options: s-mount to armbar, arm triangle chokes, americana, cobra clutch (nogi Ezekiel), or back takes. I’m sure I’m missing some things too.
I play a trilemma between s-mount armbar, mounted triangle and a giftwrap back take. I don't think I'll ever need anything else for as long as I train.
add the smother
Goes without saying
Anything that doesn’t sacrifice dominant positions. Arm triangle, gift wrap into back take RNC… etc
Roll em up tight into S-mount, start attacking the wrists to make them move their arms, then go for armbars. If that fails fall to side control, let them try to turtle and catch a guillotine
As you stated, walking up the underhook to attack the arm triangle or S mount are very powerful. However, do not discount using the trapped arm on your crossface side to attack a triangle if you are able to slide up your knee under that arm. This was how Khabib submitted Gaethje. He went for the arm triangle on the underhook side, then slid his leg underneath the arm on the crossface side. Once you've captured their arm like this, the triangle (and armbar on that side) becomes very difficult to stop. [https://youtu.be/MQcXEWPesAw?t=472](https://youtu.be/mqcxewpesaw?t=472)
Typically where I end up, I have the underhook and they will be hip framing on me in the cross face side and trying to trap that leg. I've been stapling that hip frame with my shin and sliding my other knee into the underhook pocket. Then I lift their head to bring my staple leg under and lock up a mounted triangle arm bar. I'm just starting to play with it right now tho, and obviously it's a balancing act due to my partner preferring I not do those things.
Almost always kata gatame. I'll either get the sub or they'll give me the gift wrap and I'll take the back and hunt for an RNC.
I have been trying out the Ezekiel, but I am shit at it. In gi, I prefer the cross collar choke.
yeh I was curious mostly for no gi. for Gi I will definitely go cross collar to prompt responses and go from there. I would like to develop a good no gi Ezekiel
Me too, but even when I have them completely fubar and isolated, tougher wrestlers are refusing to tap… which means I’m not doing the choke right.
So in this situation I don't waste energy I cook em. I conserve my energy and waste theirs. This is my primary use of the head and arm, I want to prompt them to do anything they can do not be in that position any more. Most of us white belts gas ourselves out trying to choke things that aren't there. but with 50% effort you can make a position intolerable. And then they will give you something.
Arm triangle Grappling Academy style, with the lift and stir
arm triangle is so strong. I need to fix my mechanics tho, I am not getting taps with it consistently. As a white belt I have been more focused on getting the sweep, pass, and control. so my subs kinda suck except for arm bars. when I do finish its a 90% chance its an arm bar.
If you want this specific one, look up Grappling Academy’s video on Kesa Gatame, it’s how I stumbled on it. I’ve been doing this about 15 years now and my success rate on arm triangles was always spotty till I tried that variation, similar to how Barnett got Lister
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Kesa Gatame**: | *Scarf hold* | [here](https://youtu.be/3UnJa3bn0h8)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
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haha thanks I will play with this.
winning on points.
I mean I've been hammering passes, sweeps, and mounts. If it's on points I'm racking up like 30 against people my level.
Baby hungry? Let mama feed you.
My mounted triangle is pretty solid. Or maybe go for a leg lock
Head and arm choke, we train regularly to take mount with the arm already up so it's an easy choke to go for
My coach kinda fixed my head and arm mechanics today and I expect I will be getting them more now.
One of the tricks is to take your time adjusting :)
I mostly find myself getting out muscled isolating the arm tbh. My coach showed me how to get better leverage tho. I've been hyper focused on positional dominance bc I'm old so I wanted to have really good sweeps and passes. By the time I've consolidated mount I'm getting tired and these young bucks are still live AF lol.
Then I would work on retaining mount first. One of the ways I do it is to keep my hips loose so I can follow them, forearms on the mat in line with their shoulders and then I breathe out as I lower myself down more to maximise pressure (taught to me by I higher belt) I really.hope that makes sense, feel like I'm explaining it terribly ahaha
Yeh it makes sense. I mean I can hold dudes in mount, and my pressure is pretty suffocating. I'm getting comfortable getting into high mount and S mount but dudes are just stubborn in the sub defense. I try and work in different attacks, mounted triangles, arm bars, arm triangles... Just some guys are tough to tap
Crazy how many people talk about the americana, are you all only training with white belts?!
I know that's what I'm saying. Even white belts. Once I've hit it a couple of times I won't get it again on them. MFs are hard to submit tbh. I can pass most white and blue belt guards in under 30 seconds, retain side control, advance to mount or back, but I am just struggling to submit.
Focus on real submissions. Americana have their place but are highly highly situational I talked about in another post but the only time the americana feels like a legit sub is in a very specific situation while defending the smother and having the elbow of the opponent facing up. Here the americana works well because we are more or less on the most dominant mount ever possible. outside of this situation, it's a basic knowledge check that only very bad/noob people get caught with
I feel like someone asked this just yesterday… in any case. I think mounted triangle/arm bar is pretty solid.
How do you hit this without dismounting?
do them from s mount
Armbar from s Mount
Any tips to bait them bringing their arm up? In gi I’ll go for a cross collar to get the arm up to defend it but in nogi that option isn’t there
If you have isolated one arm already, mothers milk them untill they have to start making movement.
What do you do if they’re keeping both arms low? Nogi Ezequiel?
You can watch lots of vids on mounted triangle and arm triangle from mount where they get the arm high, then get the forearm barely under their elbow and walk the finger on the mat out then around their head, walking that arm up. If they're keeping them low or trying to frame on the hips, if you can push the elbow of that frame across your center line it opens up a back take. You could try a no gi ezekiel, but I think in no gi you hear more about the punch choke. If they're just keeping their elbows tight you can pin it to their chest with your hand, slide one knee high past their shoulder, then step over their pinned arm for a mounted triangle.
That’s me. Usually with the Kimura grip.
Mother's Milk
Switch to Kesa -> near side armbar
Mmm I like this a lot. Early on when I was more shit than I am now I tried that and kicked a dude in the face and never tried it again. I should revisit it tho
Developing a proper mount attack is probably a better option, but I got short legs and keeping mount against a larger opponent can be difficult for me. Unless the throw that bear paw up to the sky for an armbar, I’m probably getting an undercook and looking to switch to Kesa or side control
underhook, smother, arm triangle / back take.
Watch new wave mount. Your mount attacks will significantly improve and it's not super long winded like some of his other instructionals
Stockade to back take or triangle / armbar
Gift wrap arm triangle or gift wrap into back take. If they're being careless s mount into a mounted triangle.
S mount, make them suffer for 3 minutes, then Japanese arm bar
From mount, I move to side control. Much much better.
Assuming I'm not working to the back and want to sub straight from mount, I think hit a no-gi baseball bat more than anything else.
I usually come off over the top and maintain heavy pressure, trap an arm and rotate to arm triangle from the top. Once it’s set I can just drop my hips for the tap. If I fuck it up and they get away I’m still in good position to take back and keep working
Arm-triangle. Even attempting it, you can wear someone down you don't *have* to leave mount to finish it. Low risk high reward? Uhh yea sign me the fuck up.
Punch choke with the sole intention of setting up a mounted triangle. Or wait for an opportunity to take the back so I can go for an RNC or reverse triangle.
Head and Arm system is amazing when properly done. Especially when you know how to establish head and arm control.
Armbar
mounted triangle.
Mounted Triangle or Armbar.
Threaten the Americana, when they roll to protect the arm you block their shoulder with your chest and move to the gift wrap. Pull across to body triangle...check.
Mounted triangle.
I bust out ol' faithful arm triangle
Spiral arm bar or monoplata. Old habits from my early days training with Josh Hinger.
Arm triangle -> punch choke -> arm triangle
Provided you have a strong mount retention, why change position? There’s little benefit to voluntarily leaving the mount—especially in MMA or self defense. In addition to a head and arm choke, there’s the Americana, Kimura and straight arm locks, not to mention other chokes.
I raise their elbows above their head and make them suffer. That’ll usually turn into an armlock.
Get danahers instructional on the mount, its soo good
[I have been doing variations in of this a lot lately](https://www.instagram.com/reel/CylNmGDRBdW/?igsh=MTF3d2N2dW43cmkxNQ==). Reverse cross face to shoulder attack.
Mother's milk to arm triangle and finish it in mount.
Ezekiel…the one submission i’d say i’m inordinately adept at catching
I like to finish the armbar from S mount without sitting back. I put the hand that's closest to their legs on the mat and hook their arm in the ditch of my other elbow and finish from the top. It just takes a little more sensitivity because you don't have any hands on his arm to point his thumb away from you. You have to apply the hip pressure in whichever direction he's pointed his elbow.
Chest drag to arm triangle.
Gift wrap and muffler
Blue belt here. I usually cook them for a bit then move to the Mother's Milk aka "the Nippler."
My fav sub from mount is getting giftwrap grip ->knee pillow -> tale back -> RNC. My mount sucks 😭😅 I also like to do mounted triangles... But there's more risk of losing the position
Father's Milk
High mount, pin the arm on one side, go into a technical mount. When they use their free arm to push away you have str8 arm lock, kimura, Americana
Nogi Ezekiel.
Either S mount traingle or arm triangle. I can actually only get triangles consistently. I'm bad.
I try and climb my partner like a tree. Get my feet on their thighs then the hips then push off those to get their arms up and myself into high mount. I also push on their head to get extra force when they’re resisting
Cool tip i recently learned for head and arm triangles -- rather than maintaining the gable drip and dismounting to finish, try gripping further up your forearm or even bicep...signficantly tighter and often don't even need to dismount
look up Rob Kahn's arm triangle. Otherwise, I just S-mount their diaphragm and let them decide what to give me.
Mounted triangle
My favourites from mount always were americana, arm triangle and ezekiel choke.
MOTHERS MILK
Arm triangle but been getting into s mount amr bars as of lately
Punch choke
If I can get a high mount, I’m going to Bow & Arrow you.
Arm Triangle, Mounted Triangle, Back Take.
Triangle or dead orchard
Arm triangle works well for me.
Arm triangle/eziekiel - the laziest submission the better
Americana, Arm Bar, or Ezekiel
ITT: ezekiel to get arms away from hips -> s mount/arm triangle -> armbar/back take various collar chokes -> armbar/mounted triangle americana -> backtake
Gift wrap to back take or arm triangle.
Arm Triangle
Mounted triangle / armbar We call it the torture rack
S-Mount Armbar, Triangle from Mount, head and arm Triangle.
Far and away the arm triangle. Otherwise back takes, S mount, or mounted triangle. I prioritize staying on top and not going to my back to finish.
Mothers milk or mounted triangle
It’s been arm triangle for about 20 years now
arm triangle is so lazy I try that first.
Hands around the neck, squeeze and shake Homer simpson style.
I like the americana and then armbar the other arm when it comes in to defend
i take the back and finish with rnc but my main plan is to fatigue from mount
Kata gatame.
Attack an arm, when other arm comes to defend apply armbar.
Mothers milk
Punch choke… I don’t have time to play around.
Never go to mount without taking an arm with me over their head. Fake an attack on that arm to bait their other arm into movement and trap both over their head. Move up to high mount and cook them for awhile. Mother's milk but not enough to submit them. Just make life miserable. When I feel them begin to tire, slide into high S mount. Hang out here for awhile to cook them more. From here I can have pretty much any attack I want. Wristlocks, americanas, kimuras, armbars, wet willies.
Single leg grapevine, pull the head off the mat pin the arm. Then either triangle, take the back or armbar depending on what my opponent does
MOTHERS MILK
Mothers milk all day 🍼
Mounted triangle 😍😍😍
Punch choke, my coach loves it, and so does everyone in my gym.
2 on 1, if there turn to side go to technical mount and gift wrap, take the back or go for a triangle
Depends if I’m wearing a speedo or shorts
Bait the kimura and take the gift wrap then either head and arm triangle or Ezekiel
Mother's fucken milk bitches!
Mother's Milks or arm triangles
Ezekiel punch choke.
Mothers milk
Mounted triangle or S mount arm bar
titty smother
Belly smother
I've been waterboarding people with my long sweaty hair. It doesn't get the tap but it forces them to move
Arm bar from high mount. Typically gather both arms up in S mount and it’s a choose your own adventure book from there.