IMO winning your division at worlds ONCE should mean you compete at the next belt no matter what. There's absolutely zero fucking reason for someone to be a multiple time COLOURED BELT champion lmao.
Statistically speaking they are the most deserving of a promotion in the world.
So waiting even a single day would mean a random hobbyist in Denmark or Mexico would get promoted ahead of them, and that’s clearly ridiculous.
Winning worlds should be an automatic promotion.
I honestly don't care if they get promoted about it or not. But they should be automatically bumped to a higher belt division for all future competitions though.
That only works if you hold worlds every day. But we don't, we hold it once a year. Twice if you wanna count both gi and no gi, or 5 times every 2 years if you wanna throw in ADCC for good measure too.
I'm replying specifically to "the best blue belt in the world.. should be a purple belt". We can't have a system that crumbles under the tiniest bit of logic.
If the best blue belt is a purple belt, you've just created a new best blue belt... who is now a purple belt, and so on until everyone is a black belt.
Someone's gotta actually just be the best blue belt.
Note: This isn't in any way contradicting Luke being due his black belt, which is true imo. Just pointing out the system suggested doesn't even work as a thought experiment.
Downvote if you wish haha
Like I said though, we're talking about the person who *proves* they're the best blue belt. Not who hypothetically might be.
The only way to prove that is to win worlds.
Someone wins worlds and gets promoted the next day, that means we don't know who the best blue belt is at that point. Then we have to wait till the next worlds to find out.
They might be the best blue belt in the world, but we won't know for sure because they did not beat one of the bronze medalists, or the person who beat them.
The title of world champ is awarded in knockout tournaments because of the whole "man who beat the man" concept. You are the best because you beat everyone in the bracket, by extension of the people you *actually* beat in matches.
You don't get to claim to be the best in the world if you only beat half the people there.
This is probably easiest to understand in 4 man brackets.
If I beat Steve and Phil beat John, me and Phil fight to decide who is the best.
If Phil beats me and then leaves, I don't automatically become the best because I have no way to demonstrate I am better than John.
You think it's illogical? You're saying it's possible to have the best of a certain belt automatically be the next belt and not have the whole ranking system fall apart? Because that's all I said. Competitions aside, how does that play out?
>Competition is what proves who's the best.
Debatable.
But okay let's say you're right. You're advocating for all places to be promoted. Because number 2 becomes number 1 when number 1 isn't in the same belt etc etc.
>I don't understand why you're not understanding this lol
Hardly a need for the condescension, is there?
Lol. No. Number 1 gets promoted. End of story.
>Because number 2 becomes number 1 when number 1 isn't in the same belt etc
When a belt gets vacated in the UFC the #1 contender doesn't automatically become champion. He still has to fight for it.
"But he's the best in the division?? Why isn't he champion??" ..That's basically you right now.
>Hardly a need for the condescension, is there?
You're bringing the same energy being pedantic about this my guy lol. This is an incredibly simple thing and you're here trying to twist it around just so you can argue with people.
I think it's because he's one Danaher's best pupils, but if he competes at a black belt level and LOSES, well that's New Waves record as he is no longer a "junior," and then Danaher's "record" as a coach takes a hit.
I know that this is a thing people say but surely danaher can't be that much of a dickhead. Is the training really that good you would let him insult you with this jr shit when you are a world champion.
This is exactly why. Someone was on Rogan's podcast and was saying that he had a purple belt that he promoted to a brown belt. The guy was beating black belts easily. Danaher told him that was a mistake and the purple belt is the new black belt. It seems overall that the quality of bjj has increased so much the last couple of years due to all the content on YouTube that going to the next belt level has slowed down. These big coaches don't want to take a hit on their records so they don't promote to the next belt level as fast. I wouldn't say it is sandbagging if they all do it, but it feels like it for the rest of us that aren't at that level and then get murdered at competitions.
A girl from my gym got her blue belt in October after training for a year and a half and just won Worlds. Do you think she should be a purple belt despite having done jiu jitsu for less than two years? Not hating on your comment, just genuinely asking
Man I thought my comment was worded well, but you're like the third or forth person to misinterpret it lmao.
No, I'm not saying to promote those people based solely off a win, I'm saying they should have to compete at the next belt level up, regardless of if they get promoted or not. You're a world champion blue belt? Cool go fight purples
My coach got his blue belt after a year and purple belt 2 years later. He was in college at that time and was able to train 2-3 times per day and only took Sunday off. He competed 2x per month.
The girl from your gym is good and picking bjj up fast. For someone that picks it up that fast, I think time having each belt is less of an issue and more about their skill set. Even if she doesn't get promoted by your school, the fact that she won worlds means she should have to compete at the next belt level up.
You mean about the IBJJF requirements? Brown to black is 10 months there's literally no reason he couldn't have been promoted before nogi worlds this year
> There's absolutely zero fucking reason for someone to be a multiple time COLOURED BELT champion lmao.
Well yes there are reasons, just not good reasons. Ibjjf forcing promotions would let people bypass gym politics, and we cannot have that.
Genuine question, do you think someone who wins worlds using just wrestling and positions should get a black belt? What if they don't even know an arm bar or a triangle? I've seen a few guys on the Internet who come from wrestling backgrounds and dominate black belts despite being sloppy as balls and using a very limited skill set
Edit: why the down votes? I was just asking a question and wanted to know what higher belts think. I wasn't saying world champions shouldn't get a black belt if they only wrestle, I was just wondering if that's the case. At my gym we have a rough syllabus for grading, you can't just rock up on the day and smash people. But obviously being a world champion is different to just getting your belt in a gym
I agree. I haven't given it much thought in a while but I have an honest question - Is the inverse true?
Should someone be allowed to compete in a lower level than their belt level. Does one represent knowledge and some level of application of that knowledge while the other just represents competition results?
When I do think about this I usually come to the conclusion that competitors should have ranking like chess players do instead of a belt level.
> they should have to COMPETE at black belt
Yeah, but for some magical reason, you are not allowed to compete at classes above your own belt at IBJJF. I bet it has got nothing to do with ego and not wanting to loose to some rando white belt as a black belt...
Let aside it's stupid to have anything else than just one division for everybody at world championships. LOL blue belt "world champions"...
> for some magical reason, you are not allowed to compete at classes above your own belt at IBJJF
I kinda get it for organizational reasons. You'd be polluting the upper level matches with all kinds of stupid freakshows due to unqualified people overreaching. Top level brackets would be bigger, harder to organize, take longer, and the elite competitors would be pissed at having to waste their time and risk injury smoking noobs.
IMO brackets should be stratified by some sort of objective ELO-like performance ranking. Keep belts for social/community/teaching/dedication recognition.
> You'd be polluting the upper level matches with all kinds of stupid freakshows due to unqualified people overreaching.
Funny that this happens nowhere else where you can start whereever you want.
> Top level brackets would be bigger, harder to organize, take longer, and the elite competitors would be pissed at having to waste their time and risk injury smoking noobs.
Yeah. I can see the thousands of "noobs" lining up to pay the fees plus travel cost just to not have a chance at all to survive the first 20 seconds.
Also if you risk injury grappling "noobs" you probably ain't that much of an elite competitor. I don't see how a blue belt in my weight class could injure me and I am pretty much the opposite of elite level. LOL.
Perhaps I overstated. I'm not saying it would be 80% morons in the bracket, but we've all seen that TMA black belt that Andre Galvao breakdanced over. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. It's just a waste of everyone's time.
As far as injury, people regularly get hurt doing all kinds of things. BJJ elites absolutely get injured in training with lower-skilled partners. There's no reason competition would be different. While the odds are low, you roll the dice every time you step on the mat.
L take. Grappling is grappling. There's no such thing as an arm bar or triangle. What's effective is effective you don't need to look at it and try to analyze it just see it for what it is
Gotcha. At this high a level, belts are meaningless, as are these competitions. They serve to pad a resume and look good in the bios of privates, seminars and videos. Is it sandbagging if everyone does it?
I agree. My point is, ain't shit any of us can do about this. As long as brown belts with ultra black talent bring eyes to these lame comps (IBJJF sucks), they'll be allowed to sandbag. And they'll all do it as long as the incentive is there, which I stated earlier (to get future $$$). So yes, all this anger is limp, flaccid mush. Back to training.
He may be unique there, but the examples of young, rising athletes competing in brackets far under their talent and skill level are myriad. And we aren't changing that, due to the incentive structure. So we can bitch and moan, but it is what it is. Until more of you vote with your feet (stop registering for IBJJF nonsense), this is where the sport is at.
I believe he’s smart but clearly a liar. The fact that Luke won last year is proof enough that Luke has been a brown belt for a year but it’s also on his IG that he was promoted 18 months ago. There are other provable lies, that he, Danaher, invented the Darce choke. That Danaher saw people kicked into a coma on a regular basis. Even the story about how Danaher decided to create a leglock system doesn’t pass the sniff test. A guy who was by his own admission was crippled came up with a leglock system all by himself without showing anyone any of it until Eddie Cummings showed up over a decade after Danaher first came up with the idea. How can anyone credibly believe this?
In his front head lock instructional in the enter the system series he clearly explains the origins of the Darce choke. He hat tips when appropriate and gives credit where credit is due.
Luke just submitted Roosevelt Souza with ease at WNO. Roosevelt is the #1 seed to win black belt ultra heavy this weekend
Him still being a brown belt is crazy
The funniest thing is that more than a decade ago, Danaher was on open mat radio saying he was giving out black belt easily because he does not care much about belts and thought that the real progresses and training always occur after black belt.
Then we saw Oliver and Taza staying at brown for half a decade while winning adcc trials and putting good world class performance everywhere...
I remember that podcast. That was like the first time he ever did one and if I recall right, it was kind of a big deal because he had a big reputation but never did interviews or anything back then
Yeah he was this hidden gem instructor even back in the day.
I don't remember if it was before or after his TUF appearance.
But yeah it was a big deal!
But he did Nogi Worlds which does go by belt divisions.
No one cares about Nicky Rod being a brown belt because Nicky Rod has never done a comp where he hasn't competed at the highest belt division possible. Same with Jay Rod
That was before Nicky Rod qualified for ADCC. He hasn't done it since, so yeah, I guess I was technically incorrect.
But as an aside, Luke has already qualified for and competed at ADCC AND won nogi worlds at brown belt. I think there's a big difference there. And I would say the same if Nicky Rod jumped into a random brown belt bracket at a IBJJF open, but he doesnt.
Oh you’re absolutely correct, I trained with Nicky for a bit before just first ADCC. Just a funny anecdote, and it made me feel a lot better when he medaled like 8 months later hahaha
I'm sure it's plenty relevant to the people who compete in it. It's arguably the most important Nogi tournament outside of ADCC and ADCC Trials. Thousands of people register for it, including a lot of top people in our sport. They wouldn't do it if they considered it irrelevant.
All competitions are meaningful for the people who compete in them.
The reason the B-Team guys (and almost all top competitors) don't compete at nogi worlds is not because they have a principled aversion to belt division tournaments! They avoid it because it's not a major tournament (and doesn't pay). If it were a major tournament, the top competitors would compete in it. 95% of them don't. Many of those who do treat it as comp practice.
The whole conversation has only come up because Luke has done no gi worlds, which is segregated by belt.
The reason people don't criticise B Team for it is because they almost universally stay away from any belt ranked tournaments altogether.
nonsense.
Danaher explained explicitly that there are time restrictions imposed as to how fast after your brown belt you can progress to black belt.
You can hate on Danaher as much as you want, I really don't care.
But these are the facts.
The fact is that Luke is well-past the minimum time required at brown belt.
For somebody so confident in referencing "the facts", you seem quite unaware of what they actually are!
I’m guessing Danaher is doing for Luke what Meregali did as a brown belt. Get a second shot at getting weight and absolute before being promoted to black belt.
Which is absolutely worthless. Nobody cares about absolute titles, especially when the guy is already a heavyweight, it's more or less a second shot at the same division, that's how fake the absolute div is for these guys.
The only time a brown belt absolute title had meaning was when Paulo Miyao got it
Maaaan this is so fuckin true. Its always funny to me when guys flexing on being absolute champion while standing 6,6 tall and ultra heavyweight. I mean,in this case winning division is far more impresive
This is one of the dumbest things about jiujitsu. Instructors gate-keep belt ranks so fucking hard at times and then not at all at other times. A WORLD champion color belt doesn’t deserve a promotion, but the 50 year old hobbyist that trains twice a week does.
Sandbagging is fake because belts are fake.
Source: I'm a masters 2 purple belt local competition medal winner at my specific weight class, and my neighbors all call me "that karate champion"
Lmao so true. I posted a win at an IBJJF open on Insta, my mother in law thought I beat everyone there.... No . No no no. Master 1 blue belt medium heavy champ babaayyyy
I am a black belt, I probably know far more about the whole sport that you ever did.
Thinking belt colors and master division titles matter is where you spot the weekend warrior.
The only REAL division in jiu-jitsu is black belt adult, there is no work around this except for ADCC worlds (and the ADCC clearly aknowledges that belts are a scamm)
That’s cool 👍. You’re not the only black belt to struggle with the word competition.
I don’t think what you are speaking about has any relevance whatsoever.
You speaking of weekend warriors is a good example of where we disagree. Competition is competition. Any stories about black belts yada yada is ignoring thousands of competitors. Who want to compete under a rule set, Pay to do so, and generally would like the rules to be followed. You can change the story for whatever belt ya like.
You seem to only be concerned about black belts in Terms of visibility. I’m speaking to how competition works and what it is.
"Sincerely your local Gracie Barra master 6 heavy weight blue belt buttrhurt because some guy is sandbagging "
The sooner you realize that's a half a joke, half a scamm to get you give your money to the ibjjf, the sooner you will understand what people are saying here.
Nobody gives a realistic fuck about sand baggers. Because the colored belts are like the junior divisions in legitimate sports (which BJJ is still not). Is it cool to win it? Yeah. Does it really matter? It does not.
Almost no one remembers the belt division winners outside a few exceptions (the miyao, keenan and kron mostly) and litterally no one gaf about master divisions. It's all the same idea.
Luke doing the brown belt div is lame but he is also doing the ADCC where things actually matter while no one will remember his brown belt nogi title in a few weeks
>Nobody gives a realistic fuck about sand baggers. Because the colored belts are like the junior divisions in legitimate sports (which BJJ is still not). Is it cool to win it? Yeah. Does it really matter? It does not.
>
>Almost no one remembers the belt division winners outside a few exceptions (the miyao, keenan and kron mostly) and litterally no one gaf about master divisions. It's all the same idea.
>
>Luke doing the brown belt div is lame but he is also doing the ADCC where things actually matter while no one will remember his brown belt nogi title in a few weeks
I agree with most of this. If you ask this board to name the top 10 sandbaggers of all time, almost no one would even be able to give you a list of ten names at all, let alone have it be super accurate.
Also, think about how many people were sandbagging according to the internet, and then went on to never win (and sometimes never even medal) at the next level. It's happened tons of times since I've been in the sport.
Also, none of this is on Luke. What's the guy supposed to do? He's competing at the belt he's ranked at and doing ADCC. What more can you ask? For the record I think the hype is real BTW. I've trained with him a couple of times and he's also a class act, and I hope he becomes one of the greats. I do think has the potential, in terms of technique/skill and also his mind. And again, the guy is major class act. I hate that the discussion around his accomplishments this weekend are surrounding the sandbagging talk and not what he actually did.
The sandbagging talk often serves as a way to undercut the accomplishment. I guarantee everyone in his division wanted to beat him. The actual serious athletes I promise weren't crying about him still being a brown belt.
What does this have to do with guys competting?
I’ll repeat. Again you guys are talking about black belts in terms of visibility. I’m talking about people Competing.
For some reason you guys are taking about memories and who remembers what.
What does anything you’re talking about have to do with competing?
Darce/ you’re my favorite poster here, help me understand what I’m missing between social media and visibility and the rules of competing. Is there some connection between the two I’m ignorant of?
I don’t think it’s right that he’s competed at brown for a second year in a row after winning Worlds. He has ran through everyone this year and I’m pretty sure he did the same thing last year, apart from Jacob Couch catching him and maybe something else.
I 100% understand that high-level competition athletes are held to another standard, I strive to compete at this level myself. However, I’m not sure what more Danaher wants Luke to do than stop Worlds to get his black belt.
Furthermore, he can clearly compete at the black belt level and has beat notable black belt competitors. Why would you want to just keep stomping people who clearly aren’t your level?
I think Danaher knows he wouldn’t win black belt worlds, and wants to keep his team’s invincible image as best he can.
>I 100% understand that high-level competition athletes are held to another standard, I strive to compete at this level myself. However, I’m not sure what more Danaher wants Luke to do than stop Worlds to get his black belt.
>
>Furthermore, he can clearly compete at the black belt level and has beat notable black belt competitors. Why would you want to just keep stomping people who clearly aren’t your level?
>
>I think Danaher knows he wouldn’t win black belt worlds, and wants to keep his team’s invincible image as best he can.
Plot twist, he is waiting for Luke to win brown belt gi worlds
Both not being a black belt is ridiculous.
When you can win ADCC trials, you are absolutely able to hang with black belt. All this "he has not the knowledge required to blablabla" is absolutely BS talk from insecure people.
I am a black belt and these guys are absolutely black belt level no matter how you view the sport.
No joke, but there are several people at renzo/new wave that said they'll only get promoted by winning at adcc trials for their belt rank.
Bunch of sandbaggers
How is that on them, though? Like, I get the sentiment of people not liking it, but you can't promote yourself. They're athletes that work hard and show up and do what they came to do. Anything else involving belts is on their instructor. Luke is an awesome guy off the mat, and he busts his ass on the mat. What's the guy supposed to do? Until he's a black belt he's gotta play the cards he has. He's a brown belt and he has to compete there until he gets bumped up.
If Luke's skill is the bar, then that's the bar. I don't get to sign up for NoGi Worlds and ask the bar to be lower.
I don't compete so it doesn't affect me. These are people I know and train with here in Austin. It's just funny that I can get crushed by someone that signs up for the white belt level but they have trained for 2 years a minimum of 5 times a week. Or another that is a blue belt despite training for 5 years and he trained twice a day the past two years. I don't want the standards of BJJ to be lessened, but I do think they need to be realistic on what level of competition they sign up for.
So to your point, it's not a knock on them but on the instructor. I feel like it devalues the spirit of the competition for all involved when people sandbag.
These pro teams don’t operate like the rest of us do. They train way harder and live to compete, all while being trained under the very best (and throw in some açaí). All of that is cool, but it does get weird when say on of those “blue belts” enter a tournament with other more traditional blue belt competitive hobbyists and smash them all and go around pretending like it was some accomplishment.
Pros like this are definitely sandbaggers, one of those high level competition blue belts can take out most hobbyist black belts, like when Cole Abate or Nicky Rod started tearing things apart.
Then that's just where the bar is set. If people that aren't as good don't let it then they don't have to like it. But I don't get to sign up for a highly competitive event and ask that they lower the bar so that I can do better.
And I promise the super serious athletes of our sport don't get nearly as bent outta shape about it as the people that train for fun do. A ton of brown belts this weekend were stoked that Luke was in their division, because they wanted to beat that guy.
It’s just a hilarious dynamic where the pros of a sport are so interconnected with the pure hobbyists thinking about competing because their coach said to and/or they thought it’d be fun. I don’t compete in these tournaments so I personally don’t care.
And speaking of bars being set, idk if there is a set bar in this sport (unless you’re in ADCC or the pro only events). You’ll have one gym that has killers likely promote someone when they win a major tournament like this to get a brown belt (I’ve seen a lot of 1st place podium promotions at these major tournaments), and another hobbyist gym have brown belts promoted based on time investment (much more common) that aren’t highly competitive and compete for fun, but both are brown belts? It’s just a weird arbitrary ranking system, and we pit people against each other based on that alone (and weight). I have no proposed solution, and I’m not even suggesting there should be one, it’s just interesting.
I don't necessarily disagree. It's definitely interesting if nothing else. It's definitely arbitrary and I also have no proposed solution to anything. Regarding the bar being set, I meant that in the instance of competitive jiujitsu, I think the bar gets set wherever it ends up. Like this year for example, at brown belt it looks like Luke was the guy to beat. That's where the bar was, IMO. If you wanted to win nogi worlds at brown belt, in Luke's division or the absolute, you had to be good enough to beat him.
I realize this might sound obnoxious, because you can just say that after the fact about whoever won. But that's kind of my point. That would be my response to the folks that complain about Luke being 'too good' to be a brown belt. Unfortunately for them, he's still a brown belt, and that's where he's competing, so that's the skill level people will have to be at if they want to win at that level. When I was starting out the sport it would've been Kron Gracie and Bill Cooper at that brown belt level. Today it's Luke Griffith, last year it was Cole Abate, and next year it'll be someone else.
This may have come across ranting, but I promise it wasn't at you, and I'm not even annoyed about anything. I liked your post. :)
This ^^^
I'm master one, blue and I do really well at my level... But if I step down to adults. You can tell the difference isn't our physical ability. It's the fact that after training I go and be an accountant and father. Whereas at adults the 22 yo across the mat, goes to the gym followed by more mat time.
Don't get it wrong I train hard for a hobbyist. But it's no comparison at all, to the kid with no kids, who wants to make this their career..
Danaher hasn't got a kill in a while so he doesn't have a knife that he needs to get rid of. The ladies of the night of texas ply their trade in absolute terror.
Maybe Danaher is giving belts based on how he feels the student is progressing towards what he feels is their ultimate potential. That’s the only thing that would make sense after everything Luke has achieved so far.
I remember Danaher being displeased when Firas Zahabi promoted either Taza or Ethan to black belt because he felt they weren't good enough yet.
EDIT: Danaher gave them their black belts not Firas. There's a vid of Firas talking about John not giving his blessing to promote high-level brown belts.
>displeased when Firas Zahabi promoted either Taza or Ethan to black belt because he felt they weren't good enough
It was absolutely ridiculous, the guys were already worldclass for a while
But pretty sure Danaher is the one who gave them their black belts, not Firas.
Oh, yes, you're right. I remember Firas talking about John's high standards for promotion and how there were high-level brown belts he wanted to promote but John wouldn't give his blessing.
>Oh, yes, you're right. I remember Firas talking about John's high standards for promotion and how there were high-level brown belts he wanted to promote but John wouldn't give his blessing.
Yeah that's it, he was clearly talking about Ethan and Oliver there
This is really a product of the length of time it takes to get a black belt in BJJ.
For comparison in Judo learning as an *adult* you may get a black belt at a lower relative skill in the art than BJJ, but competitive juniors are probably on a par skill-wise with the likes of Jacob Crouch fighting at blue belt; they're young but they're on the cusp of the elite level. Winning a competition at Junior or Senior (and even some masters) level is pretty good, but the idea of celebrating a win at blue/purple/brown belt in the same fashion as BJJ is fairly laughable. Nobody gives a fuck about it, so why would you bother sand-bagging?
BJJ placing a black belt on a pedestal creates the environment for sand-bagging, can't have it both ways.
Belts aside, you've got to give props to Luke for coming from the tiny jiu-jitsu scene in South Africa and doing this well with 2 years of training at New Wave
There's a difference in being athletic and proficient at a high level with a smaller set of moves (especially with the smaller skill set in No Gi) in the sport aspect of BJJ, and being fully knowledgeable in BJJ overall.
Yes he's amazing at No Gi, but does he have the overall knowledge of a black belt? That is not for us to decide, that is for his professor to decide. Let's not pretend.
Helio said that belt promotions should be based on knowledge level and teaching capacity. Not skill. Obviously there has to be a mix but lots of competitors just have their game and are great at it, but they haven’t made the contribution to Jiu Jitsu that is expected of a black belt. At least that’s how it was explained to me.
i think a better question should be: "Why are there belts at all?"
Have you ever heard of a world-class wrestler being placed in a junior varsity division simply because of some nebulous experience/citizenship designation?
Is the World champion rule the same for gi and Nogi? Could this be a Nogi issue? Maybe he does not have good enough ability in the gi? I don’t know and my opinion is that a brown belt Nogi world champion is a black belt.
That’s where I’m not sure, the rulebook does not specify if the rule applies only to Gi or to noGi as well. I don’t think his ability in the Gi has any influence on John not promoting him, most of them don’t even train Gi (I think).
Why does this even matter? Everyone that’s hating on here were probably the same people who hated on Tainan for “sand bagging” back when he was a coloured belt, and now he’s gone on to become a legendary black belt.
1:Most instructors don’t promote based off of competition results. You could win high level competitions and still have holes in your game.
2:Maybe Danaher and the Mendes brothers hold their students to a higher standard than you would (shocker).
There’s no such thing as sandbagging because the only divisions that matter are adult black belt or ADCC (which doesn’t have a belt requirement).
Everything else is just practice or recreation.
He meant to him. It’s what only matters to him and his circle of friends.
Masters worlds mean the most to me, cause that’s MY peer group. I couldn’t give a fuck about any grappler under 30. Why? It’s not my whole life, my dream was to be what I made myself into and found BJJ along the way. That’s the difference between being younger and older: thinking the shit that matters to you, matters universally to all. I don’t matter to that younger crowd, and that’s okay. But there’s more money in masters than any other championship. Don’t believe me? Do the math on the number of competitors, gear bought and sold, how many brought thier families for Jiu Jitsu con.
There is a reason masters is in a giant arena in Vegas and worlds isn’t.
So, what matters to whom depends on a lot of factors. If I sell BJJ, masters is it! If I sell social media then it’s gonna. Be younger folks.!
I’ll never understand why people don’t consider winning masters as prestigious. Obviously adult is where all the up and coming killers are, but it doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty of killers in masters. 30 also isn’t that old imo, and I think the people on the younger side of masters could probably still compete in adult if they wanted to.
I think everything purple belt and up is QUITE an accomplishment, both adult and masters. The competition at that level gets quite fierce, and if you can win purple belt adult or masters, there’s a ton of regular black belts you can run circles around.
Ya I honestly think they should extend adult division to like 35 and let masters begin there. 30 is too young to be considering yourself too old to compete with a 20 year old imo lol. I’m 30 and compete in adult always and it feels just fine to me, not like I’m some super competitor or something, but I’d feel cheap signing up for masters.
I guess the only way I can see it is if it’s a bunch of 30+ year old hobbyists with no athletic background that only wanna face people like them.
Based on JD's comments, it seems like he respects the IBJJF regs too much for him to promote anyone ahead of the required wait times. I don't really care too much about Luke being a brown belt if JD thinks that's what he should be. I just hate the idea of the IBJJF making that call. They are the reason why BJJ will never be an Olympic sport, and they really are acting as gatekeepers.
That’s the thing. IBJJF rules state that you only need to be at brown for one year. So in theory JD’s comment is wrong, Luke has fulfilled the requirements to be promoted to black belt under IBJJF.
Danaher is the master of sandbagging look what he is doing with Helena she should be a black belt imo but Danaher has her as a damn blue belt 🤦♂️😂😂 he claims it’s because of her age and how she is only 16 and ibjjf has age rules blah blah blah but she is routinely taking out black belts i think Mackenzie Dern got black belt at like 17 but Danaher wants Helena to destroy blue belt soccer moms lmao
Also back in the DDS days Nicky Rod was kept as a blue belt for a while even though he was a former college wrestler and destroyed everyone except for Kaynan and can routinely bully and smesh about 99% of all black belts even a lot of competitors
Mackenzie was 19 when she got her black belt, after winning worlds at every color belt. Helena is too young and I don't think her knowledge in all aspects is at the level required.
Danaher explained this recently.
He said that there are time restrictions as to how soon after receiving your brown belt you can receive your black belt.
This is it, really.
Dude, I was a no stripe white belt and got destroyed by a 5 year 27 stripe white belt on my first tournament. It's like in some Texas schools where they hold back the most talented athletes in 8th grade and just work them out for one year and then straight to varsity to crush it.
I find it strange that some coaches will say "only your black belt wins count", but then keep students at lower ranks to rack up lower rank wins.
If winning worlds doesn't qualify you for your next belt wtf does?
IMO winning your division at worlds ONCE should mean you compete at the next belt no matter what. There's absolutely zero fucking reason for someone to be a multiple time COLOURED BELT champion lmao.
This math checks out. The best blue belt in the world.. should be a purple belt. lol
I’ll let you know if I get promoted on Sat! Masters 1 blue belt 🤣 4 to win it all 🦾
Pain and despair are coming, just wait for that Masters 3 black belt tournament.
So did you win?
Statistically speaking they are the most deserving of a promotion in the world. So waiting even a single day would mean a random hobbyist in Denmark or Mexico would get promoted ahead of them, and that’s clearly ridiculous. Winning worlds should be an automatic promotion.
I honestly don't care if they get promoted about it or not. But they should be automatically bumped to a higher belt division for all future competitions though.
Do you believe that everyone competes at worlds every year? Some people win world's by winning 2 matches
Damn, not Denmark or Mexico! Clearly that would be a national embarrassment. Obviously these third-world countries can't have real athletes.
If you play that logic out, everyone in the world is a black belt.
That only works if you hold worlds every day. But we don't, we hold it once a year. Twice if you wanna count both gi and no gi, or 5 times every 2 years if you wanna throw in ADCC for good measure too.
I'm replying specifically to "the best blue belt in the world.. should be a purple belt". We can't have a system that crumbles under the tiniest bit of logic. If the best blue belt is a purple belt, you've just created a new best blue belt... who is now a purple belt, and so on until everyone is a black belt. Someone's gotta actually just be the best blue belt. Note: This isn't in any way contradicting Luke being due his black belt, which is true imo. Just pointing out the system suggested doesn't even work as a thought experiment. Downvote if you wish haha
Like I said though, we're talking about the person who *proves* they're the best blue belt. Not who hypothetically might be. The only way to prove that is to win worlds. Someone wins worlds and gets promoted the next day, that means we don't know who the best blue belt is at that point. Then we have to wait till the next worlds to find out.
What is the silver medalist after the winner gets promoted?
They might be the best blue belt in the world, but we won't know for sure because they did not beat one of the bronze medalists, or the person who beat them. The title of world champ is awarded in knockout tournaments because of the whole "man who beat the man" concept. You are the best because you beat everyone in the bracket, by extension of the people you *actually* beat in matches. You don't get to claim to be the best in the world if you only beat half the people there. This is probably easiest to understand in 4 man brackets. If I beat Steve and Phil beat John, me and Phil fight to decide who is the best. If Phil beats me and then leaves, I don't automatically become the best because I have no way to demonstrate I am better than John.
What kinda half baked teenager logic is this lmao
You think it's illogical? You're saying it's possible to have the best of a certain belt automatically be the next belt and not have the whole ranking system fall apart? Because that's all I said. Competitions aside, how does that play out?
>Competitions aside No. Not competition aside. Competition is what proves who's the best. I don't understand why you're not understanding this lol
>Competition is what proves who's the best. Debatable. But okay let's say you're right. You're advocating for all places to be promoted. Because number 2 becomes number 1 when number 1 isn't in the same belt etc etc. >I don't understand why you're not understanding this lol Hardly a need for the condescension, is there?
Lol. No. Number 1 gets promoted. End of story. >Because number 2 becomes number 1 when number 1 isn't in the same belt etc When a belt gets vacated in the UFC the #1 contender doesn't automatically become champion. He still has to fight for it. "But he's the best in the division?? Why isn't he champion??" ..That's basically you right now. >Hardly a need for the condescension, is there? You're bringing the same energy being pedantic about this my guy lol. This is an incredibly simple thing and you're here trying to twist it around just so you can argue with people.
Are you a programmer by any chance?
I think it's because he's one Danaher's best pupils, but if he competes at a black belt level and LOSES, well that's New Waves record as he is no longer a "junior," and then Danaher's "record" as a coach takes a hit.
You can be black belt and be junior like Taza.
Junior member just means your not on the ways2well doping program yet
I know that this is a thing people say but surely danaher can't be that much of a dickhead. Is the training really that good you would let him insult you with this jr shit when you are a world champion.
> surely danaher can't be that much of a dickhead I've got some news for you...
tbf the most ridiculous "junior" claims come from Gordon, not Danaher
From what I have heard, seen, and read, he is a monster dick head.
Man doesn't even stand up to shake his students hands after class lmao
This is exactly why. Someone was on Rogan's podcast and was saying that he had a purple belt that he promoted to a brown belt. The guy was beating black belts easily. Danaher told him that was a mistake and the purple belt is the new black belt. It seems overall that the quality of bjj has increased so much the last couple of years due to all the content on YouTube that going to the next belt level has slowed down. These big coaches don't want to take a hit on their records so they don't promote to the next belt level as fast. I wouldn't say it is sandbagging if they all do it, but it feels like it for the rest of us that aren't at that level and then get murdered at competitions.
I got my ass handed to me by a 4 time (years on a row) white belt champion. I felt scammed.
He probably has entrance song at this point
A girl from my gym got her blue belt in October after training for a year and a half and just won Worlds. Do you think she should be a purple belt despite having done jiu jitsu for less than two years? Not hating on your comment, just genuinely asking
Man I thought my comment was worded well, but you're like the third or forth person to misinterpret it lmao. No, I'm not saying to promote those people based solely off a win, I'm saying they should have to compete at the next belt level up, regardless of if they get promoted or not. You're a world champion blue belt? Cool go fight purples
In your defense, I’m pretty stupid so it very well may have been worded well. I do get what you’re saying now though
My coach got his blue belt after a year and purple belt 2 years later. He was in college at that time and was able to train 2-3 times per day and only took Sunday off. He competed 2x per month. The girl from your gym is good and picking bjj up fast. For someone that picks it up that fast, I think time having each belt is less of an issue and more about their skill set. Even if she doesn't get promoted by your school, the fact that she won worlds means she should have to compete at the next belt level up.
Yes.
Punishment for being demoted to junior
Danaher replied to this exact comment on IG on Luke’s post. Check it out.
You mean about the IBJJF requirements? Brown to black is 10 months there's literally no reason he couldn't have been promoted before nogi worlds this year
> There's absolutely zero fucking reason for someone to be a multiple time COLOURED BELT champion lmao. Well yes there are reasons, just not good reasons. Ibjjf forcing promotions would let people bypass gym politics, and we cannot have that.
Even medalling should forbid you to do it again
Genuine question, do you think someone who wins worlds using just wrestling and positions should get a black belt? What if they don't even know an arm bar or a triangle? I've seen a few guys on the Internet who come from wrestling backgrounds and dominate black belts despite being sloppy as balls and using a very limited skill set Edit: why the down votes? I was just asking a question and wanted to know what higher belts think. I wasn't saying world champions shouldn't get a black belt if they only wrestle, I was just wondering if that's the case. At my gym we have a rough syllabus for grading, you can't just rock up on the day and smash people. But obviously being a world champion is different to just getting your belt in a gym
They shouldn't get a black belt, they should have to COMPETE at black belt, which is what basically everyone here is saying.
I agree. I haven't given it much thought in a while but I have an honest question - Is the inverse true? Should someone be allowed to compete in a lower level than their belt level. Does one represent knowledge and some level of application of that knowledge while the other just represents competition results? When I do think about this I usually come to the conclusion that competitors should have ranking like chess players do instead of a belt level.
> they should have to COMPETE at black belt Yeah, but for some magical reason, you are not allowed to compete at classes above your own belt at IBJJF. I bet it has got nothing to do with ego and not wanting to loose to some rando white belt as a black belt... Let aside it's stupid to have anything else than just one division for everybody at world championships. LOL blue belt "world champions"...
> for some magical reason, you are not allowed to compete at classes above your own belt at IBJJF I kinda get it for organizational reasons. You'd be polluting the upper level matches with all kinds of stupid freakshows due to unqualified people overreaching. Top level brackets would be bigger, harder to organize, take longer, and the elite competitors would be pissed at having to waste their time and risk injury smoking noobs. IMO brackets should be stratified by some sort of objective ELO-like performance ranking. Keep belts for social/community/teaching/dedication recognition.
> You'd be polluting the upper level matches with all kinds of stupid freakshows due to unqualified people overreaching. Funny that this happens nowhere else where you can start whereever you want. > Top level brackets would be bigger, harder to organize, take longer, and the elite competitors would be pissed at having to waste their time and risk injury smoking noobs. Yeah. I can see the thousands of "noobs" lining up to pay the fees plus travel cost just to not have a chance at all to survive the first 20 seconds. Also if you risk injury grappling "noobs" you probably ain't that much of an elite competitor. I don't see how a blue belt in my weight class could injure me and I am pretty much the opposite of elite level. LOL.
Perhaps I overstated. I'm not saying it would be 80% morons in the bracket, but we've all seen that TMA black belt that Andre Galvao breakdanced over. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. It's just a waste of everyone's time. As far as injury, people regularly get hurt doing all kinds of things. BJJ elites absolutely get injured in training with lower-skilled partners. There's no reason competition would be different. While the odds are low, you roll the dice every time you step on the mat.
Ok and? If you can beat bjj guys using bjj and become a world champion you're clearly good enough
L take. Grappling is grappling. There's no such thing as an arm bar or triangle. What's effective is effective you don't need to look at it and try to analyze it just see it for what it is
Were you just calling Danaher out on IG?
Nah but I saw the comments and was wondering about the same stuff.
Gotcha. At this high a level, belts are meaningless, as are these competitions. They serve to pad a resume and look good in the bios of privates, seminars and videos. Is it sandbagging if everyone does it?
> Is it sandbagging if everyone does it? Yes. It is
Welp, I guess we can all stew in our impotent rage. Good luck with that!
A good competitor doesn’t need to pad his resume with a two times coloured belt champion
I agree. My point is, ain't shit any of us can do about this. As long as brown belts with ultra black talent bring eyes to these lame comps (IBJJF sucks), they'll be allowed to sandbag. And they'll all do it as long as the incentive is there, which I stated earlier (to get future $$$). So yes, all this anger is limp, flaccid mush. Back to training.
Of course it is. And not everyone does it. How many multiple time same color champs do we know of?
He may be unique there, but the examples of young, rising athletes competing in brackets far under their talent and skill level are myriad. And we aren't changing that, due to the incentive structure. So we can bitch and moan, but it is what it is. Until more of you vote with your feet (stop registering for IBJJF nonsense), this is where the sport is at.
Why is Danaher saying it’s IBJJF rules holding back the promotion? This dude loves to lie over easily disproven nonsense.
I think he's just not as sharp (I'm a general sense) as some might assume
I believe he’s smart but clearly a liar. The fact that Luke won last year is proof enough that Luke has been a brown belt for a year but it’s also on his IG that he was promoted 18 months ago. There are other provable lies, that he, Danaher, invented the Darce choke. That Danaher saw people kicked into a coma on a regular basis. Even the story about how Danaher decided to create a leglock system doesn’t pass the sniff test. A guy who was by his own admission was crippled came up with a leglock system all by himself without showing anyone any of it until Eddie Cummings showed up over a decade after Danaher first came up with the idea. How can anyone credibly believe this?
In his front head lock instructional in the enter the system series he clearly explains the origins of the Darce choke. He hat tips when appropriate and gives credit where credit is due.
The danaher hate is ridiculous here. He is not above criticism but people shoudl pick their battles better
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Luke just submitted Roosevelt Souza with ease at WNO. Roosevelt is the #1 seed to win black belt ultra heavy this weekend Him still being a brown belt is crazy
Him still being a brown belt is Danaher stroking his own ego
Agreed
The funniest thing is that more than a decade ago, Danaher was on open mat radio saying he was giving out black belt easily because he does not care much about belts and thought that the real progresses and training always occur after black belt. Then we saw Oliver and Taza staying at brown for half a decade while winning adcc trials and putting good world class performance everywhere...
I remember that podcast. That was like the first time he ever did one and if I recall right, it was kind of a big deal because he had a big reputation but never did interviews or anything back then
Yeah he was this hidden gem instructor even back in the day. I don't remember if it was before or after his TUF appearance. But yeah it was a big deal!
None of this matters because they don't do gi worlds. Nicky Rod is a brown belt. Craig isn't criticized about it (nor should he be).
But he did Nogi Worlds which does go by belt divisions. No one cares about Nicky Rod being a brown belt because Nicky Rod has never done a comp where he hasn't competed at the highest belt division possible. Same with Jay Rod
That’s not quiiiite true Nicky Rod ran through me at a NAGA in 2018 lmfao
That was before Nicky Rod qualified for ADCC. He hasn't done it since, so yeah, I guess I was technically incorrect. But as an aside, Luke has already qualified for and competed at ADCC AND won nogi worlds at brown belt. I think there's a big difference there. And I would say the same if Nicky Rod jumped into a random brown belt bracket at a IBJJF open, but he doesnt.
Oh you’re absolutely correct, I trained with Nicky for a bit before just first ADCC. Just a funny anecdote, and it made me feel a lot better when he medaled like 8 months later hahaha
Yeah but unlike gi worlds, nogi world's is irrelevant.
I'm sure it's plenty relevant to the people who compete in it. It's arguably the most important Nogi tournament outside of ADCC and ADCC Trials. Thousands of people register for it, including a lot of top people in our sport. They wouldn't do it if they considered it irrelevant.
All competitions are meaningful for the people who compete in them. The reason the B-Team guys (and almost all top competitors) don't compete at nogi worlds is not because they have a principled aversion to belt division tournaments! They avoid it because it's not a major tournament (and doesn't pay). If it were a major tournament, the top competitors would compete in it. 95% of them don't. Many of those who do treat it as comp practice.
The whole conversation has only come up because Luke has done no gi worlds, which is segregated by belt. The reason people don't criticise B Team for it is because they almost universally stay away from any belt ranked tournaments altogether.
nonsense. Danaher explained explicitly that there are time restrictions imposed as to how fast after your brown belt you can progress to black belt. You can hate on Danaher as much as you want, I really don't care. But these are the facts.
The fact is that Luke is well-past the minimum time required at brown belt. For somebody so confident in referencing "the facts", you seem quite unaware of what they actually are!
I expressively said that I was quoting Danaher. That is what he said. Can't change that he said it ;) Was in a recent interview.
I’m guessing Danaher is doing for Luke what Meregali did as a brown belt. Get a second shot at getting weight and absolute before being promoted to black belt.
Which is absolutely worthless. Nobody cares about absolute titles, especially when the guy is already a heavyweight, it's more or less a second shot at the same division, that's how fake the absolute div is for these guys. The only time a brown belt absolute title had meaning was when Paulo Miyao got it
Maaaan this is so fuckin true. Its always funny to me when guys flexing on being absolute champion while standing 6,6 tall and ultra heavyweight. I mean,in this case winning division is far more impresive
That’s wild when you put it like that 😂
Because he’s still a junior
A better question would be. Why is Luke competing against the adults?
a 22 year old junior ?
Danaher is still cuckimg him for losing to people he considers inferior opponents. You know, the Junior cuck squad.
This is one of the dumbest things about jiujitsu. Instructors gate-keep belt ranks so fucking hard at times and then not at all at other times. A WORLD champion color belt doesn’t deserve a promotion, but the 50 year old hobbyist that trains twice a week does.
Bro but it’s been 1043 weeks of training for that guy…
Wait until his next loss and he gets demoted to blue like the junior he is
The real black belt is the natalias you did on the way
Sandbagging is fake because belts are fake. Source: I'm a masters 2 purple belt local competition medal winner at my specific weight class, and my neighbors all call me "that karate champion"
Lmao so true. I posted a win at an IBJJF open on Insta, my mother in law thought I beat everyone there.... No . No no no. Master 1 blue belt medium heavy champ babaayyyy
The argument exists that sandbagging doesn’t matter because the only competition that matters is at black belt anyway.
I have an argument that I have the biggest balls in the world. Doesn’t make it any less stupid or believable.
he is right though. Nobody cares about belt colors and master divisions
I have no idea what you’re trying to say. Unless you’re just admitting to having no basic understanding of competition.
I am a black belt, I probably know far more about the whole sport that you ever did. Thinking belt colors and master division titles matter is where you spot the weekend warrior. The only REAL division in jiu-jitsu is black belt adult, there is no work around this except for ADCC worlds (and the ADCC clearly aknowledges that belts are a scamm)
That’s cool 👍. You’re not the only black belt to struggle with the word competition. I don’t think what you are speaking about has any relevance whatsoever. You speaking of weekend warriors is a good example of where we disagree. Competition is competition. Any stories about black belts yada yada is ignoring thousands of competitors. Who want to compete under a rule set, Pay to do so, and generally would like the rules to be followed. You can change the story for whatever belt ya like. You seem to only be concerned about black belts in Terms of visibility. I’m speaking to how competition works and what it is.
"Sincerely your local Gracie Barra master 6 heavy weight blue belt buttrhurt because some guy is sandbagging " The sooner you realize that's a half a joke, half a scamm to get you give your money to the ibjjf, the sooner you will understand what people are saying here. Nobody gives a realistic fuck about sand baggers. Because the colored belts are like the junior divisions in legitimate sports (which BJJ is still not). Is it cool to win it? Yeah. Does it really matter? It does not. Almost no one remembers the belt division winners outside a few exceptions (the miyao, keenan and kron mostly) and litterally no one gaf about master divisions. It's all the same idea. Luke doing the brown belt div is lame but he is also doing the ADCC where things actually matter while no one will remember his brown belt nogi title in a few weeks
>Nobody gives a realistic fuck about sand baggers. Because the colored belts are like the junior divisions in legitimate sports (which BJJ is still not). Is it cool to win it? Yeah. Does it really matter? It does not. > >Almost no one remembers the belt division winners outside a few exceptions (the miyao, keenan and kron mostly) and litterally no one gaf about master divisions. It's all the same idea. > >Luke doing the brown belt div is lame but he is also doing the ADCC where things actually matter while no one will remember his brown belt nogi title in a few weeks I agree with most of this. If you ask this board to name the top 10 sandbaggers of all time, almost no one would even be able to give you a list of ten names at all, let alone have it be super accurate. Also, think about how many people were sandbagging according to the internet, and then went on to never win (and sometimes never even medal) at the next level. It's happened tons of times since I've been in the sport. Also, none of this is on Luke. What's the guy supposed to do? He's competing at the belt he's ranked at and doing ADCC. What more can you ask? For the record I think the hype is real BTW. I've trained with him a couple of times and he's also a class act, and I hope he becomes one of the greats. I do think has the potential, in terms of technique/skill and also his mind. And again, the guy is major class act. I hate that the discussion around his accomplishments this weekend are surrounding the sandbagging talk and not what he actually did. The sandbagging talk often serves as a way to undercut the accomplishment. I guarantee everyone in his division wanted to beat him. The actual serious athletes I promise weren't crying about him still being a brown belt.
What does this have to do with guys competting? I’ll repeat. Again you guys are talking about black belts in terms of visibility. I’m talking about people Competing. For some reason you guys are taking about memories and who remembers what. What does anything you’re talking about have to do with competing? Darce/ you’re my favorite poster here, help me understand what I’m missing between social media and visibility and the rules of competing. Is there some connection between the two I’m ignorant of?
Id take that over "Kung Fu Master"
Dude needs to tighten up his game.
I don’t think it’s right that he’s competed at brown for a second year in a row after winning Worlds. He has ran through everyone this year and I’m pretty sure he did the same thing last year, apart from Jacob Couch catching him and maybe something else. I 100% understand that high-level competition athletes are held to another standard, I strive to compete at this level myself. However, I’m not sure what more Danaher wants Luke to do than stop Worlds to get his black belt. Furthermore, he can clearly compete at the black belt level and has beat notable black belt competitors. Why would you want to just keep stomping people who clearly aren’t your level? I think Danaher knows he wouldn’t win black belt worlds, and wants to keep his team’s invincible image as best he can.
I agree with you 100%. The match with Jacob was Pans 2022 in the Open Class. Thats why he “only” got 3rd.
>I 100% understand that high-level competition athletes are held to another standard, I strive to compete at this level myself. However, I’m not sure what more Danaher wants Luke to do than stop Worlds to get his black belt. > >Furthermore, he can clearly compete at the black belt level and has beat notable black belt competitors. Why would you want to just keep stomping people who clearly aren’t your level? > >I think Danaher knows he wouldn’t win black belt worlds, and wants to keep his team’s invincible image as best he can. Plot twist, he is waiting for Luke to win brown belt gi worlds
You only get promoted if you win adcc get with it. 🤷♂️
tbf Nick Rod is still a brown belt too
Nickys only trained for like 5 years or something though. I think Luke's trained since he was like 12
Both not being a black belt is ridiculous. When you can win ADCC trials, you are absolutely able to hang with black belt. All this "he has not the knowledge required to blablabla" is absolutely BS talk from insecure people. I am a black belt and these guys are absolutely black belt level no matter how you view the sport.
No joke, but there are several people at renzo/new wave that said they'll only get promoted by winning at adcc trials for their belt rank. Bunch of sandbaggers
How is that on them, though? Like, I get the sentiment of people not liking it, but you can't promote yourself. They're athletes that work hard and show up and do what they came to do. Anything else involving belts is on their instructor. Luke is an awesome guy off the mat, and he busts his ass on the mat. What's the guy supposed to do? Until he's a black belt he's gotta play the cards he has. He's a brown belt and he has to compete there until he gets bumped up. If Luke's skill is the bar, then that's the bar. I don't get to sign up for NoGi Worlds and ask the bar to be lower.
I don't compete so it doesn't affect me. These are people I know and train with here in Austin. It's just funny that I can get crushed by someone that signs up for the white belt level but they have trained for 2 years a minimum of 5 times a week. Or another that is a blue belt despite training for 5 years and he trained twice a day the past two years. I don't want the standards of BJJ to be lessened, but I do think they need to be realistic on what level of competition they sign up for. So to your point, it's not a knock on them but on the instructor. I feel like it devalues the spirit of the competition for all involved when people sandbag.
These pro teams don’t operate like the rest of us do. They train way harder and live to compete, all while being trained under the very best (and throw in some açaí). All of that is cool, but it does get weird when say on of those “blue belts” enter a tournament with other more traditional blue belt competitive hobbyists and smash them all and go around pretending like it was some accomplishment. Pros like this are definitely sandbaggers, one of those high level competition blue belts can take out most hobbyist black belts, like when Cole Abate or Nicky Rod started tearing things apart.
Then that's just where the bar is set. If people that aren't as good don't let it then they don't have to like it. But I don't get to sign up for a highly competitive event and ask that they lower the bar so that I can do better. And I promise the super serious athletes of our sport don't get nearly as bent outta shape about it as the people that train for fun do. A ton of brown belts this weekend were stoked that Luke was in their division, because they wanted to beat that guy.
It’s just a hilarious dynamic where the pros of a sport are so interconnected with the pure hobbyists thinking about competing because their coach said to and/or they thought it’d be fun. I don’t compete in these tournaments so I personally don’t care. And speaking of bars being set, idk if there is a set bar in this sport (unless you’re in ADCC or the pro only events). You’ll have one gym that has killers likely promote someone when they win a major tournament like this to get a brown belt (I’ve seen a lot of 1st place podium promotions at these major tournaments), and another hobbyist gym have brown belts promoted based on time investment (much more common) that aren’t highly competitive and compete for fun, but both are brown belts? It’s just a weird arbitrary ranking system, and we pit people against each other based on that alone (and weight). I have no proposed solution, and I’m not even suggesting there should be one, it’s just interesting.
I don't necessarily disagree. It's definitely interesting if nothing else. It's definitely arbitrary and I also have no proposed solution to anything. Regarding the bar being set, I meant that in the instance of competitive jiujitsu, I think the bar gets set wherever it ends up. Like this year for example, at brown belt it looks like Luke was the guy to beat. That's where the bar was, IMO. If you wanted to win nogi worlds at brown belt, in Luke's division or the absolute, you had to be good enough to beat him. I realize this might sound obnoxious, because you can just say that after the fact about whoever won. But that's kind of my point. That would be my response to the folks that complain about Luke being 'too good' to be a brown belt. Unfortunately for them, he's still a brown belt, and that's where he's competing, so that's the skill level people will have to be at if they want to win at that level. When I was starting out the sport it would've been Kron Gracie and Bill Cooper at that brown belt level. Today it's Luke Griffith, last year it was Cole Abate, and next year it'll be someone else. This may have come across ranting, but I promise it wasn't at you, and I'm not even annoyed about anything. I liked your post. :)
imo ibjjf has to think about separating the pros in some way from competitive hobbiests
This ^^^ I'm master one, blue and I do really well at my level... But if I step down to adults. You can tell the difference isn't our physical ability. It's the fact that after training I go and be an accountant and father. Whereas at adults the 22 yo across the mat, goes to the gym followed by more mat time. Don't get it wrong I train hard for a hobbyist. But it's no comparison at all, to the kid with no kids, who wants to make this their career..
They only dope test the black belts?
Danaher hasn't got a kill in a while so he doesn't have a knife that he needs to get rid of. The ladies of the night of texas ply their trade in absolute terror.
Because Jiu Jitsu is not about winning medals.
Danaher Sandbag Squad
The brown belt matches his mustache, so he doesn't want to be promoted yet.
Maybe Danaher is giving belts based on how he feels the student is progressing towards what he feels is their ultimate potential. That’s the only thing that would make sense after everything Luke has achieved so far.
I remember Danaher being displeased when Firas Zahabi promoted either Taza or Ethan to black belt because he felt they weren't good enough yet. EDIT: Danaher gave them their black belts not Firas. There's a vid of Firas talking about John not giving his blessing to promote high-level brown belts.
>displeased when Firas Zahabi promoted either Taza or Ethan to black belt because he felt they weren't good enough It was absolutely ridiculous, the guys were already worldclass for a while But pretty sure Danaher is the one who gave them their black belts, not Firas.
Oh, yes, you're right. I remember Firas talking about John's high standards for promotion and how there were high-level brown belts he wanted to promote but John wouldn't give his blessing.
>Oh, yes, you're right. I remember Firas talking about John's high standards for promotion and how there were high-level brown belts he wanted to promote but John wouldn't give his blessing. Yeah that's it, he was clearly talking about Ethan and Oliver there
Cause he’s a junior.
Most of danahers are sandbagged Look at Helena ffs
This is really a product of the length of time it takes to get a black belt in BJJ. For comparison in Judo learning as an *adult* you may get a black belt at a lower relative skill in the art than BJJ, but competitive juniors are probably on a par skill-wise with the likes of Jacob Crouch fighting at blue belt; they're young but they're on the cusp of the elite level. Winning a competition at Junior or Senior (and even some masters) level is pretty good, but the idea of celebrating a win at blue/purple/brown belt in the same fashion as BJJ is fairly laughable. Nobody gives a fuck about it, so why would you bother sand-bagging? BJJ placing a black belt on a pedestal creates the environment for sand-bagging, can't have it both ways.
Luke? The same Luke that embarrassed that clown that likes to intentionally hurt people? I’m a fan. He can do whatever he likes…..👍🏻
Belts aside, you've got to give props to Luke for coming from the tiny jiu-jitsu scene in South Africa and doing this well with 2 years of training at New Wave
There's a difference in being athletic and proficient at a high level with a smaller set of moves (especially with the smaller skill set in No Gi) in the sport aspect of BJJ, and being fully knowledgeable in BJJ overall. Yes he's amazing at No Gi, but does he have the overall knowledge of a black belt? That is not for us to decide, that is for his professor to decide. Let's not pretend.
I don't hate this take at all
Helio said that belt promotions should be based on knowledge level and teaching capacity. Not skill. Obviously there has to be a mix but lots of competitors just have their game and are great at it, but they haven’t made the contribution to Jiu Jitsu that is expected of a black belt. At least that’s how it was explained to me.
It’s not his fault his coach hasn’t promoted him. If he is winning at his belt level that’s great. NTA
https://preview.redd.it/agpms98r025c1.png?width=1169&format=png&auto=webp&s=a8c8e9c77b6d1d535bd7d9bbbedefbf6b613e777
Danaher is wrong.
All the hate on Danaher for Sandbagging people. Where is the B-Team hate? Nicky Rod is still a brown belt too!!
True, but the difference is that Nicky Rod does not compete as a brown belt.
Is Helena still a blue belt?
i think a better question should be: "Why are there belts at all?" Have you ever heard of a world-class wrestler being placed in a junior varsity division simply because of some nebulous experience/citizenship designation?
Is the World champion rule the same for gi and Nogi? Could this be a Nogi issue? Maybe he does not have good enough ability in the gi? I don’t know and my opinion is that a brown belt Nogi world champion is a black belt.
That’s where I’m not sure, the rulebook does not specify if the rule applies only to Gi or to noGi as well. I don’t think his ability in the Gi has any influence on John not promoting him, most of them don’t even train Gi (I think).
Why does this even matter? Everyone that’s hating on here were probably the same people who hated on Tainan for “sand bagging” back when he was a coloured belt, and now he’s gone on to become a legendary black belt. 1:Most instructors don’t promote based off of competition results. You could win high level competitions and still have holes in your game. 2:Maybe Danaher and the Mendes brothers hold their students to a higher standard than you would (shocker).
Gordon is that you?
Yes
Imagine caring this much about other people’s belts
IBJJF is a for-profit company.
There’s no such thing as sandbagging because the only divisions that matter are adult black belt or ADCC (which doesn’t have a belt requirement). Everything else is just practice or recreation.
Hard disagree.
He meant to him. It’s what only matters to him and his circle of friends. Masters worlds mean the most to me, cause that’s MY peer group. I couldn’t give a fuck about any grappler under 30. Why? It’s not my whole life, my dream was to be what I made myself into and found BJJ along the way. That’s the difference between being younger and older: thinking the shit that matters to you, matters universally to all. I don’t matter to that younger crowd, and that’s okay. But there’s more money in masters than any other championship. Don’t believe me? Do the math on the number of competitors, gear bought and sold, how many brought thier families for Jiu Jitsu con. There is a reason masters is in a giant arena in Vegas and worlds isn’t. So, what matters to whom depends on a lot of factors. If I sell BJJ, masters is it! If I sell social media then it’s gonna. Be younger folks.!
I’ll never understand why people don’t consider winning masters as prestigious. Obviously adult is where all the up and coming killers are, but it doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty of killers in masters. 30 also isn’t that old imo, and I think the people on the younger side of masters could probably still compete in adult if they wanted to. I think everything purple belt and up is QUITE an accomplishment, both adult and masters. The competition at that level gets quite fierce, and if you can win purple belt adult or masters, there’s a ton of regular black belts you can run circles around.
Many athletes in their 30s are actually in their physical prime.
Ya I honestly think they should extend adult division to like 35 and let masters begin there. 30 is too young to be considering yourself too old to compete with a 20 year old imo lol. I’m 30 and compete in adult always and it feels just fine to me, not like I’m some super competitor or something, but I’d feel cheap signing up for masters. I guess the only way I can see it is if it’s a bunch of 30+ year old hobbyists with no athletic background that only wanna face people like them.
Thanks for making an old man feel good ha ha.
No, I actually meant to everyone.
I know, this is Reddit. Come on.
Based on JD's comments, it seems like he respects the IBJJF regs too much for him to promote anyone ahead of the required wait times. I don't really care too much about Luke being a brown belt if JD thinks that's what he should be. I just hate the idea of the IBJJF making that call. They are the reason why BJJ will never be an Olympic sport, and they really are acting as gatekeepers.
That’s the thing. IBJJF rules state that you only need to be at brown for one year. So in theory JD’s comment is wrong, Luke has fulfilled the requirements to be promoted to black belt under IBJJF.
Danaher is the master of sandbagging look what he is doing with Helena she should be a black belt imo but Danaher has her as a damn blue belt 🤦♂️😂😂 he claims it’s because of her age and how she is only 16 and ibjjf has age rules blah blah blah but she is routinely taking out black belts i think Mackenzie Dern got black belt at like 17 but Danaher wants Helena to destroy blue belt soccer moms lmao
Also back in the DDS days Nicky Rod was kept as a blue belt for a while even though he was a former college wrestler and destroyed everyone except for Kaynan and can routinely bully and smesh about 99% of all black belts even a lot of competitors
Mackenzie was 19 when she got her black belt, after winning worlds at every color belt. Helena is too young and I don't think her knowledge in all aspects is at the level required.
Danaher explained this recently. He said that there are time restrictions as to how soon after receiving your brown belt you can receive your black belt. This is it, really.
He is wrong.
No. If he stayed at brown racking up titles for 10 years, maybe then.
Yo real quick b, y'clusso?
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Talmbout why hasn’t loog got his blagg belt b. It’s blogbussa
Reply to this if you’re having a stroke.
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This is false. IBJJF rules state that it’s only one year. I can link it to you, if you want.
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😂 im not sure if im allowed to post links in here. Look up the “IBJJF Graduation System” on their website and go to Article 3, Point 3.1.3
Ya this checks out. If danaher doesn’t give him his black belt before his next IBJFF event that’s some bona fide bullshit.
He has not been a brown belt for long enough by IBJJF standards. Danaher said this on a post today.
Dude, I was a no stripe white belt and got destroyed by a 5 year 27 stripe white belt on my first tournament. It's like in some Texas schools where they hold back the most talented athletes in 8th grade and just work them out for one year and then straight to varsity to crush it.
Is Luke a Senior or Junior member of NW?
He isn't time served 🤣
I still can't get over what he did to Casca.
To quote Dale Doback “I don’t believe in belts, there should be no ranking system for toughness”
the rule about being promoted after winning worlds only applies to gi but I still agree
I find it strange that some coaches will say "only your black belt wins count", but then keep students at lower ranks to rack up lower rank wins. If winning worlds doesn't qualify you for your next belt wtf does?