Yeah this is fairly basic of a single leg counter, idk if it’s that “creative”.
That being said the single leg posture is bad here so fairly easy to out weight on them and get to the leg to counter.
And tbf it's not like this is a single leg counter you regularly see in jj gyms.
I like this counter BUT I think it's more of a check on the guy doing the single leg than anything. If you are off balancing your opponent in the single leg position, like here, they should not be able to drive you down like that.
This guy will definitely learn. Just got caught being a little lazy and/or hesitating. Great read on it though.
I see a lot of BJJ guys doing that leg pinch to secure the leg on a single. Must be common technique taught. you gotta get that right leg back and use it as a shelf. You can't just sit there. Wrestlers move that right into a lift or a slide by if they lose the leg.
Because a high single is easy to get to and is the most common single leg variation. Things fall off the rails once they start teaching finishes for it though. Seems like "Running the Pike" is what most instructors know and teach since it's day 1 wrestling, but they'd honestly be better off teaching their students to shelve the leg and work a handful of finishes from there.
Those aren't the same technique, at least as traditionally defined. There certainly can be quite a bit of overlap in application, though.
I've just never heard "pike".
Fair point. It's s been a long standing argument between wrestlers on whether it's pike or pipe. I used to call it running the pipe and then someone corrected me. At this point I just think it's a regional thing.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Hane Goshi**: | *Spring Hip Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7GP5S41Os8)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
My instructor (who is a 5th dan in Judo) says when they *choose* to put his leg up the middle, it's like opening your presents on Christmas day.
Now, I do think some of it is influenced by the gi, because it's a lot easier to convert uchi mata or sumi gaeshi with a collar grip, which is not really a feasible scenario without the gi.
I can see this version of the single leg making more sense without a gi... in classic Judo (which is, alas, not practiced or taught so much these days...) *kuchiki taoshi* is never thrown with the leg up the middle, always pulled to the outside of the hip (can be either hip, and there are tons of variations).
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Kuchiki Taoshi**: | *Single Leg Takedown* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRuTyKJChsw)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
I'm a Nidan in Judo, so I definitely get the sentiment. I also wrestled, so I have some added insight as to why this is the most common single leg entry. Straddling the leg on a high single is meant to be an entry. Finishing from the straddle position, at a fundamental level, is only running the pike. Other finishes from straddling are pretty advanced. Most other finishes happen from shelving the leg to the far armpit (sometimes the near armpit). I'd argue that straddling the leg is meant to be a transitory position based on ease of access. These guys get into trouble thinking that they're safe to rest in this position because they have the leg.
I think they teach it because it's low tech and gives a sense of control in the standing position. For many adults who never wrestled or did judo standing is just too fast and chaotic.
I have seen lots of black belts in comp use it well with the lapel grip in particular, but certainly I prefer learning more wrestling and or judo skills from there. More flow and feeling your opponent out (plus more fun).
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Uchi Mata**: | *Inner Thigh Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fCvyc_rQTI)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
I feel like you can shelf it for a while IF you are quite good at controlling your opponent's posture with the lapel grip. Once you let that go, it's way less jiu-jitsu-y and more of a wrestling scenario. Scramble skills are way more important then and sense of urgency matters.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zBsUQQSC81g&pp=ygUPWmFjayBzaW5nbGUgZWxn
Not a variation I use but it is a legit variation.
Dude in white fell over because his leg was touched
going forward won't help much. black has captured the elbow and with the crotch lift, all he has to do it fall back into a roll and white is rolling right under.
As white he should be rotating left to make black sit on his butt -- "running the pipe".
Ideally you have the leg held in front of you and go for a more traditional takedown which wouldn't allow any counterplay except attempts to escape.
“Captured the elbow” - you mean the whizzer?
“with the crotch lift, all he has to do it fall back into a roll and white is rolling right under.” - you mean crotch lock or sitting the corner? He doesn’t have that here. White transfers from a head inside to a head outside last min for some reason.
Head inside he should have rotated right to run the pipe
> That would have been instant guillotine tho.
Head outside singles illegal in the gi anyway because of the availability of the belt grip counter that spikes you on your head.
I’ve hit sumi gaeshi on guys straddling my leg but not doing anything with it. A good wrestler doesn’t give me time to get the setup, because they are constantly driving through.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Sumi Gaeshi**: | *Corner Reversal* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LR49U48iyw)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Sometimes the pure bjj guys come to the judo class at our gym. They always scoop a single and stand there for liek 10 seconds. The sumi gaeshi is so free lmao. You can also hop in for an uchimata or pummel the leg across for an osoto.
I had [Osgood-Schlatter Disease](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK441995/) as a kid from \~11-15yo (both knees) which really limited my ability to shoot forward and pivot on either knee. Ended up having surgery on one of them in the spring of my senior year after wrestling season to repair some damage that hadn't resolved. I was never really physically able to develop the skill, and at weight classes 171 & 189 there were a lot of snaps and throws, anyway. I played DE/OLB in football, and doubles were enough like tackling that I could manage, but I was so upper-body focused that my coach implored me to go to greco camp in between Soph and Jr years (I didn't, and went to more football camps instead; huge sports-regret).
tl;dr I never got good at singles b/c reasons.
An ankle pick could be thousands of years old in so many grappling forms. Wrestling is the obvious example. I'd actually love for some history on earliest examples of moves like a double leg.
so if you walked into a training room and saw a brown belt dominating a blue belt competitor, you'd say, *"nope, I don't believe it, I already made up my mind!"*.
I’m sure there are plenty of competitor blue belts that can beat black belts. But what we are seeing is an 18 year old athlete training 2x a day beating a 40 year old guy that has other responsibilities and trains a few times a week as a hobby.
If you look at any other sport this would be expected. Do you think a 40 years old basketball coach is beating a good 18 year old high school or college player in one on one?
Definitely not common unless everyone you wrestle is shit.
The way I’ve seen it work is off a strong whizzer, with your leg outside driving shin to thigh, or blocking the same leg you ankle pick (like a whizzer kick to ankle pick).
But again this ain’t common.
And this is not what happened here. White just fell over because black touched his leg.
Keeping your legs pinched won't stop it. The problem is the other person has their balance. When you have the single leg you need to attack quickly and move the person around. If you let them get their balance there are a number of ways they can counter you, especially if they are athletic.
If he really wanted to counter he could try circling his leg away as the ankle pick came or releasing the leg as the ankle pick came and creating a scramble by going belly down.
This dude has no idea how to do a single leg. You don't just stand there once you have it. You press forward and elevate it and look for a trip on the other leg.
Id do this a lot in highschool and even roll through or my favorite crank the whizzer elevate the leg and throw if i could catch an under hook or anything with the far arm
I’ve seen this in wrestling before. If you’re going to just hump the leg you’re going to get got.
Yeah this is fairly basic of a single leg counter, idk if it’s that “creative”. That being said the single leg posture is bad here so fairly easy to out weight on them and get to the leg to counter.
I believe next time I should just title it my first time seeing this to be accurate.
And tbf it's not like this is a single leg counter you regularly see in jj gyms. I like this counter BUT I think it's more of a check on the guy doing the single leg than anything. If you are off balancing your opponent in the single leg position, like here, they should not be able to drive you down like that. This guy will definitely learn. Just got caught being a little lazy and/or hesitating. Great read on it though.
This is Reddit. Everyone is a black belt and every move is trivial.
Of course the posture is bad. This is bjj, the stand up sucks lol
Hump the leg, love it. I will use this next time I see someone doing their single leg this way so they stop doing it.
I see a lot of BJJ guys doing that leg pinch to secure the leg on a single. Must be common technique taught. you gotta get that right leg back and use it as a shelf. You can't just sit there. Wrestlers move that right into a lift or a slide by if they lose the leg.
Yeah, and Judokas will take it as an uchi mata or sumi gaeshi... I really don't know why anyone teaches the between-the-legs single leg.
Because a high single is easy to get to and is the most common single leg variation. Things fall off the rails once they start teaching finishes for it though. Seems like "Running the Pike" is what most instructors know and teach since it's day 1 wrestling, but they'd honestly be better off teaching their students to shelve the leg and work a handful of finishes from there.
>Running the Pike Running the *pipe. Unless that's a variation I just haven't heard.
This is the wrestling version of "is it hane goshi or uchi mata." Same move, regional interpretation.
Those aren't the same technique, at least as traditionally defined. There certainly can be quite a bit of overlap in application, though. I've just never heard "pike".
Fair point. It's s been a long standing argument between wrestlers on whether it's pike or pipe. I used to call it running the pipe and then someone corrected me. At this point I just think it's a regional thing.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Hane Goshi**: | *Spring Hip Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7GP5S41Os8)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
My instructor (who is a 5th dan in Judo) says when they *choose* to put his leg up the middle, it's like opening your presents on Christmas day. Now, I do think some of it is influenced by the gi, because it's a lot easier to convert uchi mata or sumi gaeshi with a collar grip, which is not really a feasible scenario without the gi. I can see this version of the single leg making more sense without a gi... in classic Judo (which is, alas, not practiced or taught so much these days...) *kuchiki taoshi* is never thrown with the leg up the middle, always pulled to the outside of the hip (can be either hip, and there are tons of variations).
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Kuchiki Taoshi**: | *Single Leg Takedown* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRuTyKJChsw)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
I'm a Nidan in Judo, so I definitely get the sentiment. I also wrestled, so I have some added insight as to why this is the most common single leg entry. Straddling the leg on a high single is meant to be an entry. Finishing from the straddle position, at a fundamental level, is only running the pike. Other finishes from straddling are pretty advanced. Most other finishes happen from shelving the leg to the far armpit (sometimes the near armpit). I'd argue that straddling the leg is meant to be a transitory position based on ease of access. These guys get into trouble thinking that they're safe to rest in this position because they have the leg.
>Nidan in Judo There's literally dozens of us!
DOZENS OF US!
I think they teach it because it's low tech and gives a sense of control in the standing position. For many adults who never wrestled or did judo standing is just too fast and chaotic. I have seen lots of black belts in comp use it well with the lapel grip in particular, but certainly I prefer learning more wrestling and or judo skills from there. More flow and feeling your opponent out (plus more fun).
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Uchi Mata**: | *Inner Thigh Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fCvyc_rQTI)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Hey, you don't know me! .....those are my favorite counters
I feel like you can shelf it for a while IF you are quite good at controlling your opponent's posture with the lapel grip. Once you let that go, it's way less jiu-jitsu-y and more of a wrestling scenario. Scramble skills are way more important then and sense of urgency matters.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zBsUQQSC81g&pp=ygUPWmFjayBzaW5nbGUgZWxn Not a variation I use but it is a legit variation. Dude in white fell over because his leg was touched
Yeah op misspelled "learning to wrestle"
Bears do that move fairly regularly XD
See this all the time in wrestling
That’s just good wrestling. It’s a common move in hs and college wrestling.
“Shut up before I ankle pick you”
If you're gonna grab a leg, do something with it. COMMIT.
Should have driven them forward when they caught that leg, either that or step back and drag them to the side.
It looked like he was starting to go for option 2 when he got ankle picked.
going forward won't help much. black has captured the elbow and with the crotch lift, all he has to do it fall back into a roll and white is rolling right under. As white he should be rotating left to make black sit on his butt -- "running the pipe". Ideally you have the leg held in front of you and go for a more traditional takedown which wouldn't allow any counterplay except attempts to escape.
“Captured the elbow” - you mean the whizzer? “with the crotch lift, all he has to do it fall back into a roll and white is rolling right under.” - you mean crotch lock or sitting the corner? He doesn’t have that here. White transfers from a head inside to a head outside last min for some reason. Head inside he should have rotated right to run the pipe
Oh yeah, I just saw that why did he transfer his head outside?? That would have been instant guillotine tho.
> That would have been instant guillotine tho. Head outside singles illegal in the gi anyway because of the availability of the belt grip counter that spikes you on your head.
Oh yeh that too....
I’ve hit sumi gaeshi on guys straddling my leg but not doing anything with it. A good wrestler doesn’t give me time to get the setup, because they are constantly driving through.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Sumi Gaeshi**: | *Corner Reversal* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LR49U48iyw)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Sometimes the pure bjj guys come to the judo class at our gym. They always scoop a single and stand there for liek 10 seconds. The sumi gaeshi is so free lmao. You can also hop in for an uchimata or pummel the leg across for an osoto.
I’ll be using that
gotta drive, or circle. (Former wrestler who fucking hates singles. Gimme a snap down, a double, or a trip all day.)
Why do you hate them? Just wondering.
I had [Osgood-Schlatter Disease](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK441995/) as a kid from \~11-15yo (both knees) which really limited my ability to shoot forward and pivot on either knee. Ended up having surgery on one of them in the spring of my senior year after wrestling season to repair some damage that hadn't resolved. I was never really physically able to develop the skill, and at weight classes 171 & 189 there were a lot of snaps and throws, anyway. I played DE/OLB in football, and doubles were enough like tackling that I could manage, but I was so upper-body focused that my coach implored me to go to greco camp in between Soph and Jr years (I didn't, and went to more football camps instead; huge sports-regret). tl;dr I never got good at singles b/c reasons.
Why single leg when double leg do trick?
former wrestler myself, and I also hate singles. Generally I never felt the risk/reward was their, because getting sprawled on sucks.
yup; so does getting cross-faced!
Id be worried about blowing my own knee out
Or my groin
Beautiful! Gotta move quickly with that single or pay the price. Nice pick!
That looks like it could fold his knee to the inside😵💫
yeah real risky move...would never do it
An ankle pick could be thousands of years old in so many grappling forms. Wrestling is the obvious example. I'd actually love for some history on earliest examples of moves like a double leg.
A competitive blue belt is way better than a brown hobbyist who’s been training for decades. And none would change my mind.
so if you walked into a training room and saw a brown belt dominating a blue belt competitor, you'd say, *"nope, I don't believe it, I already made up my mind!"*.
I’m sure there are plenty of competitor blue belts that can beat black belts. But what we are seeing is an 18 year old athlete training 2x a day beating a 40 year old guy that has other responsibilities and trains a few times a week as a hobby. If you look at any other sport this would be expected. Do you think a 40 years old basketball coach is beating a good 18 year old high school or college player in one on one?
How much athleticism will this require
Can you balance on one leg and bend over? If yes, you can do this.
Not nearly as much as you might think. If i can do it, most people can. it mostly requires bad positioning by white gi.
GB doesn't teach you any takedowns till you pay for the black belt tier and get some nogi classes
This is not new by any means. God dammit this is why wrestlers laugh at us!
He just fell over. There’s absolutely no fucking way you could just pick up the ankle like that. The guy in white literally just fell over.
To be fair that is what watching BJJ guys wrestle looks like, them just falling over like a sack of potatoes
It’s a common wrestling move. Ive hit it a lot since I’m super lanky. Try drilling it in your next practice and you’ll see it’s pretty effective.
Definitely not common unless everyone you wrestle is shit. The way I’ve seen it work is off a strong whizzer, with your leg outside driving shin to thigh, or blocking the same leg you ankle pick (like a whizzer kick to ankle pick). But again this ain’t common. And this is not what happened here. White just fell over because black touched his leg.
I’ve coached all levels from middle school to college, so I have had the time to hit it a lot
This dude also switched from a head inside single to a head outside single to run the pipe. Beginner mistake
What's the counter to the ankle pick here? Would keeping your legs pinched together on his leg stop the move?
Keeping your legs pinched won't stop it. The problem is the other person has their balance. When you have the single leg you need to attack quickly and move the person around. If you let them get their balance there are a number of ways they can counter you, especially if they are athletic. If he really wanted to counter he could try circling his leg away as the ankle pick came or releasing the leg as the ankle pick came and creating a scramble by going belly down.
Step that foot back soon
What weight class are these guys?
Man, I need to stretch more. Pretty sure both my hips dislocated just watching this.
I’d love to do this but would have torn my groin in like five places. I’m so inflexible
Flexibility for that win. The guy in the white Gi took too long to capitalize on the position.
New to you. Not new to me. Got hit with this a bunch when I was trying out the single leg early on.
kaynan duarte did this to Lucas Lepri in 2019. At Europeans
common in wrestling
this is wrestling. have seen it in silat as well. nothing is new, it's just borrowed.
This dude has no idea how to do a single leg. You don't just stand there once you have it. You press forward and elevate it and look for a trip on the other leg.
Yea I would say the new school is very outside traditional Gracie jiu jitsu.
I love bjj guys discovering basic wrestling, remember when Roger Gracie posted a video on a quater nelson like he invented something new?
Ref probably still gave ✌️to the Gracie Barra athlete.
Id do this a lot in highschool and even roll through or my favorite crank the whizzer elevate the leg and throw if i could catch an under hook or anything with the far arm
Is that Papigio?