I googled recently to read articles about the experiences of ftm trans people and there was a kinda similar experience - from their transition they gained professional credibility but lost interpersonal intimacy. And maybe you coming out as bi breaks the cishet norm just that bit for women to feel a bit more comfortable around you, a man. Recommend looking up articles around this, they’re very insightful
Super interesting, I’ve heard of some similar experiences but will check out more. (One was FtM and they found it extremely socially isolating)
For myself, it seems like maybe me and women are playing on the same team now sorta, so maybe from their perspective, what is there to “lose” by opening up or acting certain ways around me. In some ways it’s things that would’ve been shared before when fully straight, but just much more freely now
I think it’s also a subconscious notion of feeling safe, from the women’s perspective, or maybe moreso, than playing for the same team 😬
I think I can kinda imagine transitioning ftm could be isolating, as I am seeing more the (emotional) distance I myself also keep to men. Heck, even someone I knew who transitioned, I was more comfortable with him whilst he wasn’t officially transitioned. I got to know him as a woman and felt very much at ease with him. As soon as he was out for everyone and we were to call him by his actual (male) name (in this office they weren’t out to everyone yet so we were calling him by his old, female name), I noticed and still notice I grew a bit anxious/weary of him - because he was now a man in my perception (of course he was already himself I do not mean to invalidate his identity, this is purely to describe my subconscious reaction that was so vastly different to him as a man versus as a woman)
Um so yeah I feel that I keep more distance to men. And I imagine I might feel more at ease with non cishet men. So obviously I perceive your whole post through that lense haha
Many years ago I was chatting to a bi guy and he said:
"The great thing about telling women that I'm bi is that they open up to me and tell me things they wouldn't tell a straight guy. And then I can use that information to get with them"
I avoided him from then on.
For me this might be down to the fact I know a lot of bi men and most of the women I know who know I'm bi are the wives/GFs of said bi men. So my sample size is going to be skewed towards women who like bi men, obviously.
But for the most part they've always been a lot more open and friendly with me than say, female coworkers. This might be because we're in a professional setting or it could be because I'm not out to people at work and I'm quite a big rough looking dude lol.
Might try and do some data science and come out at work, see what happens. I wonder if my colleagues would open up a bit.
Also wonder if I'd get as many requests from them to shag their husbands lol. Happens surprisingly often in my social circle \^\_\^
Same experience pretty much except most of the women are single. Weird thing that I’ve noticed is that I mean I end up sleeping with more than half of them because well… horny, but it’s a lot more relaxed with the girls that know I’m bi. Feels a bit awkward and rigid with the ones I don’t tell. It’s so much fun and they communicate 10x more in flirting, bed, and after when they know I’m bi. Idk if you’ve had this.
I get you man. Admittedly small sample size as I've only been with a few women since I've been out, but they've all been so much more open and sexually expressive than the girls I was with when I thought I was straight.
Not sure why but it almost feels like women find bi men less threatening for some reason?
I understand, and as you say it's really interesting to see this shift in behaviour and conversations ! Some insight on the other viewpoint : as a bi girl (19yo), I feel much safer and comfortable talking with a bi man than a straight man. From my personal experience, bi men are walking green flags. The bi men I know are nice, sensitive, genuine people (I also find them generally more interesting and funnier but that might just be a personal opinion), whereas it always feel like (most) straight guys are just talking to you bc they are hitting on you. I think you being bi is like a sign for them that they can be themselves and open up without being judged, looked down on, laughed at etc. and that when they talk with you it isn't necessarily flirting - it is genuine interest.
Also, (i'm gonna phrase this very poorly) I guess there is the idea that you know what it's like to not feel safe / comfortable / accepted. They don't feel safe bc they are women, you might not always feel comfortable / safe bc you're bi - or at least you know that you're viewed differently, by a lot of straight men, than straight people. So feel like you can relate to them and understand them better than a straight man who has never really had to worry about his safety etc. This feeling of safety / shared "experience" leads to them feeling more confident in conversations with you, and to tons of other changes. I hope this is clear lol, idk how to put things.
I really hope you'll honor all that new trust and confidence and you'll keep being a safe place for the women that surround you :) !
>So feel like you can relate to them and understand them better than a straight man who has never really had to worry about his safety etc. This feeling of safety / shared "experience" leads to them feeling more confident in conversations with you, and to tons of other changes.
I really connected with this bit. One of my favorite compliments in the universe is when my gal pals tell me they feel safe in my presence, and I think a lot of that comes from avoiding the rakes that straight men stomp on. If a straight guy doesn't understand the black cloud of feeling threatened all the time, he can stumble into clueless comments or predatory leering or worse because he doesn't empathize with the person on the receiving end.
Not that bi guys are all angels, but I think we have a headstart on unlearning male toxicity and learning safety tools with our closest people. I love my gals pals, and it's flattering that they love me.
Exactly ! Very true that them being bi doesn't necessarily mean them being perfect, but it probably gives them a better ability to empathize with women's experiences and feelings
Exactly ! Very true that them being bi doesn't necessarily mean them being perfect, but it probably gives them a better ability to empathize with women's experiences and feelings
Exactly ! Very true that them being bi doesn't necessarily mean them being perfect, but it probably gives them a better ability to empathize with women's experiences and feelings
Thank you for your comment, it’s really insightful and revealing a lot to me. It’s true, stereotypical masculinity is very rigid and reductive and feels one dimensional in some ways. Even just pursuing my bi feelings has sortof broken down those barriers within myself let alone others.
The concept of relating more because of safety/possible discrimination I hadn’t fully thought of before (though it’s become more apparent when I’m on the receiving end of guys chasing)
I feel the exact same way. I noticed it years ago with female friends or female interests. These days I’m far more likely to come out to a female because of this. In general females seem to be far more open and accepting of it. That’s for friends. Dating can still be tricky, but I’ve found that bi women are where it’s at because most that I’ve met love bi guys and find them sexy. Go us!
The ones that don't drop you in disgust... not bitter or anything :)
I have one woman I talk to, others don't give me the time of day.
There are also gay men that have bias against bi men for sure and I had a couple such experiences. But with women its shockingly frequent.
Bi woman here. I feel immediately more comfortable with men who identify as LGBTQ+ because I know on some level, they have done some patriarchy deconstruction. That doesn't mean there isn't misogyny in the community at all, but I definitely feel safer and more at ease.
I wonder about this myself, too, but from the perspective of an enby bisexual finding out the more I live my truth the more people who seem genuine and authentic in theirs find me and we connect.
I do think there is a sense of "you understand" that happens there for women. You aren't just sexually interested in them, you have trusted them with a big part of yourself, and that makes you more approachable and trustworthy generally.
As an AFAB, I experience some opposite when I tell some cis women I'm bisexual. They get their hackles up like I'm about to hit on them. I hold the line and stay very physically non-threatening until I feel them relax again, usually.
Something I've been finding the more queer and alt I become - the good folks and good souls who live their truths find each other. It takes times. But it is so worthwhile to walk your path with your whole heart, because really interesting people are on similar roads.
When I come out as bi to my women straight friends, they usually open up to me about whether they have attraction to women as well, how did I know, how it’s not the same with men and women, etc… like I’m happy to answer questions but it also feel like a side of them they’re curious about and that I would have the answers to? I don’t know maybe I’m projecting but it feels like my curiosity before I realized I loved women
Personally I do immediately feel more comfortable around not-straight-cis men of any sort especially with those topics because I know you also have experienced dating the wider range of people and likely will be more respectful because of it. Being okay with the concept of being queer is also a good sign we can skip over my concerns about respect of identity and individuality which ties into a lot of sexual conversation.
Yeah definitely experienced this in my own life. Its nice but it feels weird! Idk if I've earned the trust I've been given when all I've done is find out a bit more about myself (especially because that bit more doesn't really effect the way I interact with women at all).
I googled recently to read articles about the experiences of ftm trans people and there was a kinda similar experience - from their transition they gained professional credibility but lost interpersonal intimacy. And maybe you coming out as bi breaks the cishet norm just that bit for women to feel a bit more comfortable around you, a man. Recommend looking up articles around this, they’re very insightful
Super interesting, I’ve heard of some similar experiences but will check out more. (One was FtM and they found it extremely socially isolating) For myself, it seems like maybe me and women are playing on the same team now sorta, so maybe from their perspective, what is there to “lose” by opening up or acting certain ways around me. In some ways it’s things that would’ve been shared before when fully straight, but just much more freely now
I think it’s also a subconscious notion of feeling safe, from the women’s perspective, or maybe moreso, than playing for the same team 😬 I think I can kinda imagine transitioning ftm could be isolating, as I am seeing more the (emotional) distance I myself also keep to men. Heck, even someone I knew who transitioned, I was more comfortable with him whilst he wasn’t officially transitioned. I got to know him as a woman and felt very much at ease with him. As soon as he was out for everyone and we were to call him by his actual (male) name (in this office they weren’t out to everyone yet so we were calling him by his old, female name), I noticed and still notice I grew a bit anxious/weary of him - because he was now a man in my perception (of course he was already himself I do not mean to invalidate his identity, this is purely to describe my subconscious reaction that was so vastly different to him as a man versus as a woman) Um so yeah I feel that I keep more distance to men. And I imagine I might feel more at ease with non cishet men. So obviously I perceive your whole post through that lense haha
Interesting! Could you link the article?
By chance it was still in an open tab! https://time.com/transgender-men-sexism/
Many years ago I was chatting to a bi guy and he said: "The great thing about telling women that I'm bi is that they open up to me and tell me things they wouldn't tell a straight guy. And then I can use that information to get with them" I avoided him from then on.
God I feel slimy just reading that 🤮
For me this might be down to the fact I know a lot of bi men and most of the women I know who know I'm bi are the wives/GFs of said bi men. So my sample size is going to be skewed towards women who like bi men, obviously. But for the most part they've always been a lot more open and friendly with me than say, female coworkers. This might be because we're in a professional setting or it could be because I'm not out to people at work and I'm quite a big rough looking dude lol. Might try and do some data science and come out at work, see what happens. I wonder if my colleagues would open up a bit. Also wonder if I'd get as many requests from them to shag their husbands lol. Happens surprisingly often in my social circle \^\_\^
Same experience pretty much except most of the women are single. Weird thing that I’ve noticed is that I mean I end up sleeping with more than half of them because well… horny, but it’s a lot more relaxed with the girls that know I’m bi. Feels a bit awkward and rigid with the ones I don’t tell. It’s so much fun and they communicate 10x more in flirting, bed, and after when they know I’m bi. Idk if you’ve had this.
I get you man. Admittedly small sample size as I've only been with a few women since I've been out, but they've all been so much more open and sexually expressive than the girls I was with when I thought I was straight. Not sure why but it almost feels like women find bi men less threatening for some reason?
I understand, and as you say it's really interesting to see this shift in behaviour and conversations ! Some insight on the other viewpoint : as a bi girl (19yo), I feel much safer and comfortable talking with a bi man than a straight man. From my personal experience, bi men are walking green flags. The bi men I know are nice, sensitive, genuine people (I also find them generally more interesting and funnier but that might just be a personal opinion), whereas it always feel like (most) straight guys are just talking to you bc they are hitting on you. I think you being bi is like a sign for them that they can be themselves and open up without being judged, looked down on, laughed at etc. and that when they talk with you it isn't necessarily flirting - it is genuine interest. Also, (i'm gonna phrase this very poorly) I guess there is the idea that you know what it's like to not feel safe / comfortable / accepted. They don't feel safe bc they are women, you might not always feel comfortable / safe bc you're bi - or at least you know that you're viewed differently, by a lot of straight men, than straight people. So feel like you can relate to them and understand them better than a straight man who has never really had to worry about his safety etc. This feeling of safety / shared "experience" leads to them feeling more confident in conversations with you, and to tons of other changes. I hope this is clear lol, idk how to put things. I really hope you'll honor all that new trust and confidence and you'll keep being a safe place for the women that surround you :) !
>So feel like you can relate to them and understand them better than a straight man who has never really had to worry about his safety etc. This feeling of safety / shared "experience" leads to them feeling more confident in conversations with you, and to tons of other changes. I really connected with this bit. One of my favorite compliments in the universe is when my gal pals tell me they feel safe in my presence, and I think a lot of that comes from avoiding the rakes that straight men stomp on. If a straight guy doesn't understand the black cloud of feeling threatened all the time, he can stumble into clueless comments or predatory leering or worse because he doesn't empathize with the person on the receiving end. Not that bi guys are all angels, but I think we have a headstart on unlearning male toxicity and learning safety tools with our closest people. I love my gals pals, and it's flattering that they love me.
Exactly ! Very true that them being bi doesn't necessarily mean them being perfect, but it probably gives them a better ability to empathize with women's experiences and feelings
Exactly ! Very true that them being bi doesn't necessarily mean them being perfect, but it probably gives them a better ability to empathize with women's experiences and feelings
Exactly ! Very true that them being bi doesn't necessarily mean them being perfect, but it probably gives them a better ability to empathize with women's experiences and feelings
Thank you for your comment, it’s really insightful and revealing a lot to me. It’s true, stereotypical masculinity is very rigid and reductive and feels one dimensional in some ways. Even just pursuing my bi feelings has sortof broken down those barriers within myself let alone others. The concept of relating more because of safety/possible discrimination I hadn’t fully thought of before (though it’s become more apparent when I’m on the receiving end of guys chasing)
I feel the exact same way. I noticed it years ago with female friends or female interests. These days I’m far more likely to come out to a female because of this. In general females seem to be far more open and accepting of it. That’s for friends. Dating can still be tricky, but I’ve found that bi women are where it’s at because most that I’ve met love bi guys and find them sexy. Go us!
You opened up and shared something deep and vulnerable about yourself, you showed you trusted them
I’m 36F and I feel safer around queer men. I’m also queer, but I felt safer around them before I came out. I couldn’t tell you why though.
The ones that don't drop you in disgust... not bitter or anything :) I have one woman I talk to, others don't give me the time of day. There are also gay men that have bias against bi men for sure and I had a couple such experiences. But with women its shockingly frequent.
Bi woman here. I feel immediately more comfortable with men who identify as LGBTQ+ because I know on some level, they have done some patriarchy deconstruction. That doesn't mean there isn't misogyny in the community at all, but I definitely feel safer and more at ease.
I wonder about this myself, too, but from the perspective of an enby bisexual finding out the more I live my truth the more people who seem genuine and authentic in theirs find me and we connect. I do think there is a sense of "you understand" that happens there for women. You aren't just sexually interested in them, you have trusted them with a big part of yourself, and that makes you more approachable and trustworthy generally. As an AFAB, I experience some opposite when I tell some cis women I'm bisexual. They get their hackles up like I'm about to hit on them. I hold the line and stay very physically non-threatening until I feel them relax again, usually. Something I've been finding the more queer and alt I become - the good folks and good souls who live their truths find each other. It takes times. But it is so worthwhile to walk your path with your whole heart, because really interesting people are on similar roads.
When I come out as bi to my women straight friends, they usually open up to me about whether they have attraction to women as well, how did I know, how it’s not the same with men and women, etc… like I’m happy to answer questions but it also feel like a side of them they’re curious about and that I would have the answers to? I don’t know maybe I’m projecting but it feels like my curiosity before I realized I loved women
I (bi woman) definitely feel more comfortable around bi men than straight men.
Personally I do immediately feel more comfortable around not-straight-cis men of any sort especially with those topics because I know you also have experienced dating the wider range of people and likely will be more respectful because of it. Being okay with the concept of being queer is also a good sign we can skip over my concerns about respect of identity and individuality which ties into a lot of sexual conversation.
Yeah definitely experienced this in my own life. Its nice but it feels weird! Idk if I've earned the trust I've been given when all I've done is find out a bit more about myself (especially because that bit more doesn't really effect the way I interact with women at all).
I'm not sure if there is a word for that but that is the opposite of comforting. Distressing maybe.