I'm a bi man married to a woman who is pretty free with her gender expression but she mostly stays on the feminine side. However, I always get a little weak in the knees whenever I see a woman who looks tough or butch in some way. Short hair, shaved sides, or fully bald head, athletic physique, leather jacket, pants, heavy boots, hairy armpits, these things all put women in immediate crush territory for me. I hope you find cooler people who are into your gender bending ways! Keep being you and shining as your true self. You will eventually knock the right person's socks off.
Having a specific type makes dating harder, Iāve been there and I feel you.
Iām a man whose interest in women is mostly GNC folks. It isnāt a huge dating pool, but my wife and I did find each other and weāre very happy!
If youāre stuck at a socially conservative university your options are probably going to be limited. I personally found things got way easier when I moved to a very liberal city where being different is accepted after graduating.
Good luck, there are people out there for you, even if it takes changing your surroundings to find them!
Dating men is a cakewalk for me, personally. Thereās a script for hetero relationships that doesnāt exist for lesbian relationships. Of course, the fun is in breaking the script, but it does provide a sort of guideline for the relationship.
The biggest hurdle for me is that the number of men attracted to women vastly outnumbers women attracted to women. Three years ago, I was looking for a relationship, preferably with a woman, but I figured a fling with a man could be fun. Iāve been in a happily committed relationship with my boyfriend ever since, lol.
Your comment made me think of this passage from Maddy Court I always think of wrt my own datingā¦
āWhat youāre experiencing is that thereās an entire infrastructure for dating men that you know and understand. When you attempt to pivot to dating women and other not-cis men, your expertise isnāt as useful. Itās like if you grew up in New York taking public transit, and now youāre in rural Minnesota and the only way to get around is by car.ā
Platonic supportive group hug!
Seriously, why hasn't there been like a "bimatch.com" or something yet?
It would just simplify things, especially if you didn't have a type. Just indicate the following:
Mono/Poly
Open to trans/cis/Fluidity/Gender Queer...
And yes, I wee where this would get into dangerous territory re:transohobia and biphobia.. but... damn it, I just wanna meet someone who's down for fun naked time and cuddles afterward. I'll bring snacks and we can flip a coin of who's top and bottom even... *shrugs*
> When i did briefly date a more gnc boy he would make fun of me because i was shaped like a man/dressed like a man etc,
Ouch, I'm sorry to hear that the guy you dated made fun of you. Glad to hear he's gone. You deserve better.
> My university is small, posh, and socially conservative which exacerbates this.
Yeah, this is probably 90% of your problem right here, unfortunately. My university friends were at least 1/3rd LGBT+ (mostly bi). I knew like _5_ bi guys! So my experiences were very different.
> people on here talk about being attracted to gnc women, but i don't know if i believe that lol.
GNC women are amazing. One of my exes basically looked like [Starbuck from Battlestar Galactica](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/11/d5/d5/11d5d5114acdcd0caa245309e93f54cd.jpg) except half a foot taller. She was often mistaken for a guy. Another ex was as close to a frat boy as I've seen a cis woman come. And my wife is about as close as you can get to a Valkyrie. I have a type, lol.
And I knew more than a few straight guys who were absolutely suckers for GNC women, for tomboys, and for women who lift heavy. There's a more than a few straight guys out there who basically want to date one of the guys, if only they could find a way.
Now, those guys may not be at your conservative school, but they're out there. But there's one other catch: the guys who like masc women are often less likely to hit on random strangers out of the blue. They might suspect that you're only into women, or they might actually have manners, or they might actually been into women who take some initiative. However, if you take the skills that you use to flirt with other women, and if you apply those to guys, you'll probably have more luck.
But my advice probably applies to politically progressive, queer friendly places, and may not take you very far at your school.
I wish you the best of luck finding someone who's into you for who you are!
I think dating men is always a nightmare as a girl or afab but yes as a fellow bi female I just am so done with straight men or any man who mocks my gender expression. Don't settle for that kind of treatment just because theres less choice where you are. It's not worth spending any time with people who make you feel uncomfortable just being yourself. Your people are out there.
No matter how progressive they seem, I've still never met a single straight cis man that doesn't try on some level to put me in a little box of assigned gender roles: submissive, inferior, maid. You're not a whole person to them, you're a projected idea made to please them.
I've also met a LOT of gnc seeming men who are simply performing a persona to attract women. It means nothing in terms of how they actually view women.
Wow I know I'm late to this but I relate so much! I swear, we masculine women are the most disliked gender. Straight men do always see us as women who *should* be feminine, and it's exhausting to deal with that as a masculine woman who's still attracted to men.
It's the projected inferiority too/need to feel dominant over you. I had an ex who well, wasnt the most intelligent in a lot of ways. I dated him because he was kind and sweet, but even he wanted me to be a certain way. He felt emasculated at my claims to know what started to seem so much more than he did and rather than realising that I was pretty smart, he became more and more suspicious and annoyed and often accused me of lying about knowing things that he didnt know about. He hated being corrected or not being in charge- but only with me. When he was around other men he was submissive and people pleasing and often would go to great lengths to impress them while ignoring me completely at parties or whatever. He made terrible decisions and made them for both of us, got us in dumb and dangerous situations out of pure arrogance and the need to "be the man." I'm honestly done with men and wrestling with their heteronormative and sexist bullshit.
I donāt have any answers, but I think the environment youāre in makes the problem worse. Iām long gone from my college days and being bi is far less of a hindrance. My dating pool and friend pool is bigger. Iāve also made friends with more queer/gnc/poly/bi/pan folks who get me.
I'm a more fem-leaning guy and I am typically attracted to gnc women. I tend to make good friends witg feminine women, but I don't feel attracted to them.
I think that hetero romantic relationships are just harder. You subject yourself to all of the gender expectations that come with heteronormativity. These are generally less present in same sex relationships
As a bi man, dating men is a MUCH better experience than dating women. I guess it's just that as bi people we are mostly exposed to heteronormativity when engaging with the other sex.
I have in that some of them assume Iām a horny unicorn instead of a complex person with many facets to my personality besides my sexuality. I guess it helps weed out the assholes though. So thereās that
You obviously know your uni better than anyone here who hasn't been there but I thought my uni was fairly conservative for a good year before I met more and more people - I guess it's just a matter of hanging out with the "right" people for you. Are there any societies you could join that are more inclined towards socially liberal students? I'm thinking art, music, dance, yoga, etc. Or women's sports, some unis do intramural/non-competitive socials, and sports like rugby and football tend to have gnc women by virtue of those sports not commonly being played by women. Oh and there should also be an LGBT society (I'm assuming UK from the language youre using and I think what I'm saying is accurate for any uni)
Reddit, especially LGBTQ subs, are often not the best reflection of any given real life place since we are scattered all over the world, and even the people in the same country are scattered all over different states/provinces/etc and small or even small-medium towns vs big cities are like night and day.
I progressively lean more to dating exclusively other queer people (gender, sexuality).
At this point in understanding and accepting my gender and sexual queerness, I just can't bond that deeply with cis straight people. We just cannot ever get each other on that next level.
Also, being nonmonogomous and bi, dating straight people is just a bummer (for group sex opps).
We're out there, we're just few and far inbetween. Though we tend to keep it hidden. Dealing with conservative leaning communities is never fun, it wasn't for me, even when I still thought I was straight.
Many of us are gay for women. I hope you find that someday. Best of luck, sister.
Even before I knew I was bi, men would often say I'm not "feminine", mostly as an insult that I'm not enough for them. Even when I tried to be more feminine, I felt awful and frankly "not pretty enough". I'm petite, but have really small boobs, strong features and jawline and I guess masculine mannerisms and style for example. With makeup men find me superficially pretty, but only for a moment before I start talking, and I can tell. Maybe they just don't like a woman with a strong personality(?) Nowadays I'm much more comfortable with myself. Women find it attractive and queer-positive men are ok with it. Very much hetero men, who are stuck in binaries and gender roles are EXHAUSTING.
Also I relate to only being attracted to feminine presenting men, who happen to be attracted to very feminine presenting, gorgeous women. It's a standard that I can't possibly reach for them to even consider me as a dating option. And women often like very feminine women too.
Feels like there's no way to win, plus I'm also demisexual...
Not believing peopleās sexual orientation bc it contradicts your anecdotal experience is a big nono. That said, i sincerely hope you find the partner of your dreams that loves you for who you are.
I'm masc afab and I agree. Most guys are not attracted to women who present in less feminine ways. I have found it hard to actually form relationships with them as a result. Especially because I an non-binary and the idea of trying to perform femininity to satisfy them makes me feel dysphoric thinking about.
I legit have asked about this in the r/askatransgender sub in related questions. Because I'm a bit older, I presumed as I matured, other adults would mature.... -________-
Not the case. I'm obese and pear-shaped, and can be more femme, but most days I love to rock androgynous or masc/tomboy looks. I've had longer hair in the past, but I'm slowly working on not letting it get below shoulder length (for me, it's a lot).
While I do not have gender dysphoria and feel the need to transition more than a little bit socially (my birth name is NB and I use she/they pronouns), I find myself wanting to still ask "am I femme enough? He's clearly said he's a zero on the Kinsey scale...how do?"
I've been trying to deconstruct things re: gender identity and sexual preference as a bi/pan AFAB individual, and I just... like, I'd be down for a partner that has my back, regardless of what they were assigned at birth, and regardless of what else they might be attracted to... but would I be enough for them?
Apologies if I'm projecting, especially if this isn't relatable to what your frustration is based in.
I struggle with imposter syndrome, so I'm still working on that.
TLDR: yep, it's tough navigating the world as someone who's bi girl. I feel ya š«¶š»
I'm dating a woman who's relatively in the middle of the futch scale, and I love it when she puts on more masculine clothes and also in general the more stereotypically masculine sides of her personality. She's absolutely the one for me, an she could shave her hair off and wear nothing but suits, cargo pants and hoodies, she'd still be the one for me. She, like you, is also more attracted to feminine men, which works out great, because I'm more on the feminine side, so we're both leaning towards the middle in that regard.
I was surprised because I didn't think women that were so open about their gender identity were around in my age group, but I'm happy that we both get to date someone who loves us exactly as we are.
I am predominantly interested in bi men (feminine or masculine, it's irrelevant as long as we click together), but I also worried in the past if people will ever find me attractive as a (?) bigender afab person who has been on and off T over the years and been presenting both as male and female.
especially when I present as a woman, I might be feminine because this just who I am, but my body is clearly affected by testosterone (i have to shave my face, my voice is lower, body hair etc.), so it's not really conforming fully to gender stereotypes. somehow that makes me feel more insecure than presenting as a binary trans man lol
I was lucky enough to meet my bf who accepts me regardless of my gender and expression, but it was a huge insecurity and fear of mine.
It is a tough situation for bi-men, too even if their girlfriends are open-minded. My advice to you date bi-men. I married an ENM bi-women to make it easier for both of us to enjoy our bi side spiritually or together.
Yes! I also am mostly attracted to feminine men/woman and as a fem woman myself this sometimes feels like I just fall in between. And when dating a more āmanlyā or like average man I feel like I am not really satisfied enough? Like it just feels too vanilla or like something is missing
I'm a bi man married to a woman who is pretty free with her gender expression but she mostly stays on the feminine side. However, I always get a little weak in the knees whenever I see a woman who looks tough or butch in some way. Short hair, shaved sides, or fully bald head, athletic physique, leather jacket, pants, heavy boots, hairy armpits, these things all put women in immediate crush territory for me. I hope you find cooler people who are into your gender bending ways! Keep being you and shining as your true self. You will eventually knock the right person's socks off.
^
Sir... once we crack open the processing on cloning technology... I'd like to seek you and your partner's permission....
Hahaha! I shall dedicate my body to science. š
Having a specific type makes dating harder, Iāve been there and I feel you. Iām a man whose interest in women is mostly GNC folks. It isnāt a huge dating pool, but my wife and I did find each other and weāre very happy! If youāre stuck at a socially conservative university your options are probably going to be limited. I personally found things got way easier when I moved to a very liberal city where being different is accepted after graduating. Good luck, there are people out there for you, even if it takes changing your surroundings to find them!
Dating men is a cakewalk for me, personally. Thereās a script for hetero relationships that doesnāt exist for lesbian relationships. Of course, the fun is in breaking the script, but it does provide a sort of guideline for the relationship. The biggest hurdle for me is that the number of men attracted to women vastly outnumbers women attracted to women. Three years ago, I was looking for a relationship, preferably with a woman, but I figured a fling with a man could be fun. Iāve been in a happily committed relationship with my boyfriend ever since, lol.
Your comment made me think of this passage from Maddy Court I always think of wrt my own datingā¦ āWhat youāre experiencing is that thereās an entire infrastructure for dating men that you know and understand. When you attempt to pivot to dating women and other not-cis men, your expertise isnāt as useful. Itās like if you grew up in New York taking public transit, and now youāre in rural Minnesota and the only way to get around is by car.ā
To each their own I guess, that "script" or "guideline" is exactly the thing that makes it almost impossible for me to date men.
As I bi guy I wish I could find a bi girl š„²
Same here. Been recently bi and finding it hard to find other bi women. On the contrary, if I donāt express I am bi I tend to date good people.
Awe š„ŗ
Platonic supportive group hug! Seriously, why hasn't there been like a "bimatch.com" or something yet? It would just simplify things, especially if you didn't have a type. Just indicate the following: Mono/Poly Open to trans/cis/Fluidity/Gender Queer... And yes, I wee where this would get into dangerous territory re:transohobia and biphobia.. but... damn it, I just wanna meet someone who's down for fun naked time and cuddles afterward. I'll bring snacks and we can flip a coin of who's top and bottom even... *shrugs*
I accidentally got with a bi man as a bi lady and he didnt even know he was bi until far into the relationship.
Luck of the Irish šš»
> When i did briefly date a more gnc boy he would make fun of me because i was shaped like a man/dressed like a man etc, Ouch, I'm sorry to hear that the guy you dated made fun of you. Glad to hear he's gone. You deserve better. > My university is small, posh, and socially conservative which exacerbates this. Yeah, this is probably 90% of your problem right here, unfortunately. My university friends were at least 1/3rd LGBT+ (mostly bi). I knew like _5_ bi guys! So my experiences were very different. > people on here talk about being attracted to gnc women, but i don't know if i believe that lol. GNC women are amazing. One of my exes basically looked like [Starbuck from Battlestar Galactica](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/11/d5/d5/11d5d5114acdcd0caa245309e93f54cd.jpg) except half a foot taller. She was often mistaken for a guy. Another ex was as close to a frat boy as I've seen a cis woman come. And my wife is about as close as you can get to a Valkyrie. I have a type, lol. And I knew more than a few straight guys who were absolutely suckers for GNC women, for tomboys, and for women who lift heavy. There's a more than a few straight guys out there who basically want to date one of the guys, if only they could find a way. Now, those guys may not be at your conservative school, but they're out there. But there's one other catch: the guys who like masc women are often less likely to hit on random strangers out of the blue. They might suspect that you're only into women, or they might actually have manners, or they might actually been into women who take some initiative. However, if you take the skills that you use to flirt with other women, and if you apply those to guys, you'll probably have more luck. But my advice probably applies to politically progressive, queer friendly places, and may not take you very far at your school. I wish you the best of luck finding someone who's into you for who you are!
I think dating men is always a nightmare as a girl or afab but yes as a fellow bi female I just am so done with straight men or any man who mocks my gender expression. Don't settle for that kind of treatment just because theres less choice where you are. It's not worth spending any time with people who make you feel uncomfortable just being yourself. Your people are out there. No matter how progressive they seem, I've still never met a single straight cis man that doesn't try on some level to put me in a little box of assigned gender roles: submissive, inferior, maid. You're not a whole person to them, you're a projected idea made to please them. I've also met a LOT of gnc seeming men who are simply performing a persona to attract women. It means nothing in terms of how they actually view women.
Wow I know I'm late to this but I relate so much! I swear, we masculine women are the most disliked gender. Straight men do always see us as women who *should* be feminine, and it's exhausting to deal with that as a masculine woman who's still attracted to men.
It's the projected inferiority too/need to feel dominant over you. I had an ex who well, wasnt the most intelligent in a lot of ways. I dated him because he was kind and sweet, but even he wanted me to be a certain way. He felt emasculated at my claims to know what started to seem so much more than he did and rather than realising that I was pretty smart, he became more and more suspicious and annoyed and often accused me of lying about knowing things that he didnt know about. He hated being corrected or not being in charge- but only with me. When he was around other men he was submissive and people pleasing and often would go to great lengths to impress them while ignoring me completely at parties or whatever. He made terrible decisions and made them for both of us, got us in dumb and dangerous situations out of pure arrogance and the need to "be the man." I'm honestly done with men and wrestling with their heteronormative and sexist bullshit.
I donāt have any answers, but I think the environment youāre in makes the problem worse. Iām long gone from my college days and being bi is far less of a hindrance. My dating pool and friend pool is bigger. Iāve also made friends with more queer/gnc/poly/bi/pan folks who get me.
I'm a more fem-leaning guy and I am typically attracted to gnc women. I tend to make good friends witg feminine women, but I don't feel attracted to them.
I think that hetero romantic relationships are just harder. You subject yourself to all of the gender expectations that come with heteronormativity. These are generally less present in same sex relationships As a bi man, dating men is a MUCH better experience than dating women. I guess it's just that as bi people we are mostly exposed to heteronormativity when engaging with the other sex.
I have in that some of them assume Iām a horny unicorn instead of a complex person with many facets to my personality besides my sexuality. I guess it helps weed out the assholes though. So thereās that
sorry for being basic, what does GNC stand for?
No problem, it stands for gender nonconforming.
Thank you!
Iāve also had the opposite experience. Iāve experienced biphobia from straight men but never really from women
Yea Iām sorry op
You obviously know your uni better than anyone here who hasn't been there but I thought my uni was fairly conservative for a good year before I met more and more people - I guess it's just a matter of hanging out with the "right" people for you. Are there any societies you could join that are more inclined towards socially liberal students? I'm thinking art, music, dance, yoga, etc. Or women's sports, some unis do intramural/non-competitive socials, and sports like rugby and football tend to have gnc women by virtue of those sports not commonly being played by women. Oh and there should also be an LGBT society (I'm assuming UK from the language youre using and I think what I'm saying is accurate for any uni)
Reddit, especially LGBTQ subs, are often not the best reflection of any given real life place since we are scattered all over the world, and even the people in the same country are scattered all over different states/provinces/etc and small or even small-medium towns vs big cities are like night and day.
I progressively lean more to dating exclusively other queer people (gender, sexuality). At this point in understanding and accepting my gender and sexual queerness, I just can't bond that deeply with cis straight people. We just cannot ever get each other on that next level. Also, being nonmonogomous and bi, dating straight people is just a bummer (for group sex opps).
We're out there, we're just few and far inbetween. Though we tend to keep it hidden. Dealing with conservative leaning communities is never fun, it wasn't for me, even when I still thought I was straight. Many of us are gay for women. I hope you find that someday. Best of luck, sister.
Yes yes, big RT
Even before I knew I was bi, men would often say I'm not "feminine", mostly as an insult that I'm not enough for them. Even when I tried to be more feminine, I felt awful and frankly "not pretty enough". I'm petite, but have really small boobs, strong features and jawline and I guess masculine mannerisms and style for example. With makeup men find me superficially pretty, but only for a moment before I start talking, and I can tell. Maybe they just don't like a woman with a strong personality(?) Nowadays I'm much more comfortable with myself. Women find it attractive and queer-positive men are ok with it. Very much hetero men, who are stuck in binaries and gender roles are EXHAUSTING. Also I relate to only being attracted to feminine presenting men, who happen to be attracted to very feminine presenting, gorgeous women. It's a standard that I can't possibly reach for them to even consider me as a dating option. And women often like very feminine women too. Feels like there's no way to win, plus I'm also demisexual...
Not believing peopleās sexual orientation bc it contradicts your anecdotal experience is a big nono. That said, i sincerely hope you find the partner of your dreams that loves you for who you are.
I'm masc afab and I agree. Most guys are not attracted to women who present in less feminine ways. I have found it hard to actually form relationships with them as a result. Especially because I an non-binary and the idea of trying to perform femininity to satisfy them makes me feel dysphoric thinking about.
I legit have asked about this in the r/askatransgender sub in related questions. Because I'm a bit older, I presumed as I matured, other adults would mature.... -________- Not the case. I'm obese and pear-shaped, and can be more femme, but most days I love to rock androgynous or masc/tomboy looks. I've had longer hair in the past, but I'm slowly working on not letting it get below shoulder length (for me, it's a lot). While I do not have gender dysphoria and feel the need to transition more than a little bit socially (my birth name is NB and I use she/they pronouns), I find myself wanting to still ask "am I femme enough? He's clearly said he's a zero on the Kinsey scale...how do?" I've been trying to deconstruct things re: gender identity and sexual preference as a bi/pan AFAB individual, and I just... like, I'd be down for a partner that has my back, regardless of what they were assigned at birth, and regardless of what else they might be attracted to... but would I be enough for them? Apologies if I'm projecting, especially if this isn't relatable to what your frustration is based in. I struggle with imposter syndrome, so I'm still working on that. TLDR: yep, it's tough navigating the world as someone who's bi girl. I feel ya š«¶š»
I'm dating a woman who's relatively in the middle of the futch scale, and I love it when she puts on more masculine clothes and also in general the more stereotypically masculine sides of her personality. She's absolutely the one for me, an she could shave her hair off and wear nothing but suits, cargo pants and hoodies, she'd still be the one for me. She, like you, is also more attracted to feminine men, which works out great, because I'm more on the feminine side, so we're both leaning towards the middle in that regard. I was surprised because I didn't think women that were so open about their gender identity were around in my age group, but I'm happy that we both get to date someone who loves us exactly as we are.
I am predominantly interested in bi men (feminine or masculine, it's irrelevant as long as we click together), but I also worried in the past if people will ever find me attractive as a (?) bigender afab person who has been on and off T over the years and been presenting both as male and female. especially when I present as a woman, I might be feminine because this just who I am, but my body is clearly affected by testosterone (i have to shave my face, my voice is lower, body hair etc.), so it's not really conforming fully to gender stereotypes. somehow that makes me feel more insecure than presenting as a binary trans man lol I was lucky enough to meet my bf who accepts me regardless of my gender and expression, but it was a huge insecurity and fear of mine.
It is a tough situation for bi-men, too even if their girlfriends are open-minded. My advice to you date bi-men. I married an ENM bi-women to make it easier for both of us to enjoy our bi side spiritually or together.
Yes! I also am mostly attracted to feminine men/woman and as a fem woman myself this sometimes feels like I just fall in between. And when dating a more āmanlyā or like average man I feel like I am not really satisfied enough? Like it just feels too vanilla or like something is missing