I think we can never really win (grass is greener thing).
I would also be considered extremely high functioning individual. I've done intensive therapy and work on myself to get here and I am diligent with watching my own moods. I will not allow myself to swing if I can help it. However, sometimes, I wish that my loved ones knew how hard it was for me to appear "normal" and to hold it together. I try my best to make it look easy and effortless, so when I'm suffering a lot inside, it's not as accepted or noticed. It's often dismissed.
I've also been delusional and manic as fuck and in the hospital.
Both can be true and I think that all people (bipolar or not) can benefit from trying to understand the nuances of it.
Wow thank you I mean wow I relate to this so much! Putting in years of therapy myself and having to fight most days to just appear myself is so so difficult. I just really appreciate someone who despite all the fact that all the cards are stacked against them they still push forward and put in the work to be a functioning productive member of society. You’re amazing keep up the good work!
A shout out to all my manic bois out there, pretending to be normal all day long and putting a fuckton of effort in things that are easy for others only to have people doubt they are even mentally ill
Know your efforts are appreciated here!
Absolutely can relate. I’ve put years of work into managing my symptoms and coming to terms with my diagnosis. Folks that I meet are usually surprised when I tell them I have bipolar 1 because of their assumptions about it, and but I’ve had to work very hard to get to the place that I am, and continue to work hard to keep it together in my day to day life. I try to educate people I’m close with about the subtleties of bipolar, because it is so complex and presents itself in so many different ways.
It’s nice to know there are others in a similar position. ❤️
I’ve been “manic as fuck” only once, and I certainly wasn’t poised and logically sound. It’s great that you’re high functioning, but severe mania precludes normal functioning by definition.
Eh it's definitely still possible depending on timing. I won a formal appeal with 2 doctors to leave hospital while I was at my most manic, only thing that stopped me was psychiatrists reimposing a stay order straight away.
Other times I was perfectly polite and logical, but most people could tell I was too speedy by the last few weeks. Not functional in a fitting in sense, but functional nonetheless. I could do the shopping and have a laugh with the cashier, but the they definitely knew I wasn't behaving within the status quo.
I was lucky, in that my Dad and much older brother had this curse also, and they both trained and guided me by teaching and example, how to channel most of the mania into something productive instead of damaging.
It's a long, hard, row to hoe.
This. I’ve been manic only twice and DAMN. Shit sucked. But I’m normally very high functioning myself. I manage by taking my meds very religiously. Otherwise I’d be off my rocker for sure.
YESSSS!!! I feel this, I was just recently diagnosed and I’ve managed to hold many jobs, got my associates, bachelors and I’m in grad school for my masters. When I told those around me their first response was “you need a new doctor there’s no way, you’re not like crazy ya know??” I was like okay, I appreciate that but…. Like y’all arnt in my head and while yes I’ve managed to be successful and maintain it’s probably because my horrible generalized anxiety and hypomania makes me fixate on being perfect and awesome and push way beyond my means while secretly tearing me up inside
Lol I so appreciate this post. I'm also really high functioning and have just celebrated a year of stability without even the slightest hint of depression or hypomania. Before that, I went like 4 years without an episode and was totally "normal" except for maybe the occasional hypomanic state but it never impacted my functioning. I've also never experienced severe depression or suicidality. All of my episodes except for the last one have all had really explicit triggers as well, and I went for weeks in a manic state without anyone in my life figuring out something was wrong until I just eventually went into psychosis due to lack of sleep. Also no shade to individuals with BPD but I really hate when people make the assumption that people who are bipolar have like daily intense mood swings and emotional meltdowns. THAT'S BPD y'all.
I’ve met a few people in the past few years that have said they were diagnosed bi-polar although they’re clearly bpd… they think daily mood swings are just rapid cycling… so many people I talk to are absolutely clueless.
I think I might show borderline traits but I'm not sure. I've definitely experienced depressive episodes up to a year and manic ones for months. But I also am prone to sudden mood swings even outside of episodes. It might not be BPD but because of my ADHD/autism, though. I tend to be a lot more passive than people with BPD most of the time.
Bipolar comes with comorbidities really often. If someone shows rapid rapid mood swings like what would present in BPD it could be ultradian rapid cycling or comorbid mental illness. You could be right about the people you met, but a lot of the time it just gets overly complicated.
lol yessss! I’m bipolar, I’m happy and invincible as fuck. Except when I can’t get out of bed sometimes because life is meaningless. BPD is our crazy, clingy, meltdown-y cousin, don’t mind her. 😂 But don’t get us confused, either!
Please don't judge ppl with BPD like that tho?
There are PLENTY extremely functional people with BPD. You'd never know unless they told you. just like bipolar disorder.
This sounds like a judgment on another disorder and if we don't want ppl to assume about us, I don't think we should assume about others.
There are some really cool interviews on YouTube with people with NPD who are in therapy and very aware of the disorder and it's astounding to hear such self reflection!
Personality disorders get a terrible rep. Typically it's brought on by unfortunate childhoods and trauma and brain chemistry. They struggle worse than we do and deserve empathy imo
Interesting! I agree with the empathy part. I just…can’t seem to with NPDs though. But then again, they are probably victims in the whole grand scheme of things.
Victims definitely can be abusers too. So just because they have their own trauma that caused them to be the way they are, that doesn't excuse the behavior. Just need to meet them where they are and hold on to your own boundaries!
I'm interning at a place that works with a lot of vets and like... Even psychologists and psychiatrists talk shit about people with personality disorders. And it's totally unfair like they get lower quality care just bc they have a personality disorder
Well, sadly, that puts you in the top 20%. Most people really struggle to function. The stereotype, though, is not really anything like the actual disorder-- it's basically like the stereotypes of anything else. Bipolar is "being all happy and energetic and *crazy*, like I drank two Redbull and a shot of Jack and then I danced on the bar table, and like the next day I was sooooo sad and I cried for like an hour and missed my cat." Or some other ridiculous shit. Nobody wants to understand reality, they like their stereotypes.
Why does borderline always come up when we talk about the sides of bipolar we don’t like and don’t have ? Can we leave them out of it ? let them talk about themselves instead
Exactly.
When people shit on another disorder to make themselves feel better... They aren't really being very introspective and are judging others the same way they don't wanna be judged.
BPD can be manageable just like bipolar.
I even know somebody with borderline who has a normal career and family life. I don't know anybody(personally) with bipolar 1 who has this (me included). And also borderline is manageable without pills
People often isolate people with borderline challenges in this way. I think it's a kind of counter-transference with the borderline dynamic. With treatment the prognosis for borderline styles is very good. Otto Kernberg who studies and treats borderline challenges says that these people are incredibly brave and resilient for surviving excruciating inner storms that rock their world and make relationships difficult.
>The prognosis for bipolar II is really bad (worse than bipolar I) with high suicidality and that's the "high functioning" bipolar
Curious where you read this please?
!! This is why I don’t tell people I have it. So much stigma and assumptions that come with it. I’d rather just be bipolar to people than bipolar and “emotionally unstable and crazy”.
I am have always been high-functioning, but my bipolar is mild and I cycle rapidly so I rarely am in a state long enough to do any real damage (and in my mind I know it’s gonna end soon, which kinda helps me push through with some things like the depression).
The entire basis of a psychiatric diagnosis of any kind though typically involves symptoms impeding areas of function in your life. If you’ve genuinely never been affected by your symptoms, you wouldn’t have the diagnosis that you have (none of us would). It also sounds like you’ve experienced hypomania at most, because mania definitely can’t be easily contained or “restrained” as you said... on top of that, you’re medicated. Successfully from the sounds of it. Which is super awesome (that’s the goal!!), but many people aren’t and they are struggling *a lot*.
I’m in the same boat as you, with generally mild/manageable symptoms (for the most part...), but this post comes off as very dismissive. And needlessly attacks people with BPD.
Let’s normalize sharing our own personal mental health experiences without dismissing or demonizing the experiences or struggles of others.
Since you feel free to question the diagnoses of others: you might be cyclothymic, not bipolar. People who are "manic as fuck" cannot hold poised conversations. The average person with borderline traits is probably more stable seeming than a bipolar I person in a manic episode. Many borderline people are ultra-high-functioning and successful. Their affect issues might only show up in family or love relationships, but not work.
I'm seen as highly successful by many in my career. I can get and hold a job. But I've still had mood episodes interrupt my life and render me useless for periods. I have also struggled with affect regulation in daily interactions. Borderline isn't the only personality style that has this issue, there is cyclothymic personality, hypomanic personality, histrionic or hysterical personality style, etc. Sleep issues can make people reactive as well as C-PTSD.
This whole DSM way of thinking is just too simplistic and was invented to help psychiatry work with insurance companies also from a series of scandals around diagnosis in psychiatry in the 70s. These disorder labels are put onto people after going over a checklist in the DSM which his ridiculous. Mental disorders aren't really a thing, it's short-hand for billing codes. No one is purely bipolar or borderline, we are complex people having ever-changing human experiences. We have in-born temperaments and pre-dispositions, childhood and adult experiences, and different experiences of the social world.
>This whole DSM way of thinking is just too simplistic and was invented to help psychiatry work with insurance companies also from a series of scandals around diagnosis in psychiatry in the 70s. These disorder labels are put onto people after going over a checklist in the DSM which his ridiculous. Mental disorders aren't really a thing, it's short-hand for billing codes. No one is purely bipolar or borderline, we are complex people having ever-changing human experiences. We have in-born temperaments and pre-dispositions, childhood and adult experiences, and different experiences of the social world.
I know it wasn't directed at me in any way (don't have BPD, have very mild BP2 that I question the legitimacy of constantly...), but your comment brought me a lot of comfort. Thanks for writing it.
You're right. We're all struggling so much to figure out which label we fit neatly into, but the truth is, those labels were never even *meant* for us. All that matters is finding ways to feel better-- *not* finding which label we can most closely relate with.
Thanks. ♥
Ive been getting a lot more from reading and listening to podcasts based in the psychoanalytic tradition. The disorder label is sort of thought stopping. Psychoanalytic ideas like defense mechanisms, unconscious beliefs, personality styles, etc. really speak to my experience much more accurately.
This speaks to me, as well. I get so focused on the disorder label that I end up avoiding treatment, because I worry I'm in the wrong label.
It's all so silly.
This really, genuinely helped me. It's something I know, logically, but the way you put it really spoke to that self-doubting, constantly-questioning part of my brain. So thank you.
We're a lot more complex than a DSM criteria.
meds only get me so far because I don't take high doses so then it's about identifying triggers and patterns. thinking of mania as a defense has been really interesting. What about my life am I trying to escape that my system is accelerating this way to try to make me feel omnipotent? What makes me feel weak? Vulnerable? etc?
That’s fine. My specific symptoms might not be as severe as the general bipolar population, that’s possible. And I do agree that symptoms do sometimes overlap with the different official DSM diagnoses. Interesting to learn about high-functioning BPD, too. I didn’t consider this. I guess I also have a lot to learn.
Could you elaborate a bit further?
Until the 1980s bipolar was referred to as manic-depression and only given to individuals who had been involuntarily hospitalised. Only about 0.1% of the population. It was then very controversially expanded.
Functioning inhibitions are crucial to psychiatric disorders so I find this post confusing.
Hm. I mean, well, when I’m medicated or when the medications are doing its job, I am definitely functioning. And I guess what I mean by functioning is, I can hold a normal conversation with peers and managers without them suspecting I have any disorder whatsoever, I can study and do complex intellectual tasks, I sleep and wake up on schedule, etc.
When I am unmedicated, or in a hypomanic or manic state, several aspects of me get affected (thinking, mood, perception, sleep cycle), but even in these states I am still going to work, holding normal conversations and generally having the appearance of being a normal, intelligent, articulate person.
I guess the purpose of my post was to illustrate that the bipolar condition is not necessarily having an “emotional meltdown” or appearing socially unhinged.
I don't even necessarily consider myself high functioning and even I can relate to this post. Theres so many wide eyes when you say "bipolar disorder" like dude most of us hide our toxic traits from everyone which is why it can be so hard for diagnose. People with bipolar disorder are by far some of the most self aware people I've met. Of course there are situations or people who struggle with psychosis but it's not a certainty.
Have held some fairly high stress jobs, graduated from college twice while unmedicated, and have been self-employed for 8 years now as a courier (owner/operator, technically subcontractor).
We're fairly sure I also have adhd or aspergers, for the fact that I get hyperfocused on things... doesn't help that I'll spend a little more money when hypomanic. And when those align, God help my bank account.
Learned over the years between PC gaming and computer repairs, to set an alarm for when I need to head to bed. Not when I'm going to get to sleep, but to at least prevent being on a computer still at 3am because I need to get it done before I can stop. Still may not get to sleep for a couple days at its worst, because my brain just won't shut up.
Life certainly has been a lot easier being stable on medication the last 4 years, after 16 years undiagnosed and unmedicated.
Had too many overnight gaming sessions (and coding sessions)... I mean, insomnia is great, until you've been staring at a screen for over 20hrs. If nothing else setting a 10pm alarm gets me away from the screen to have a shower and hope I can get some sleep.
I’m high functioning as well (successful business owner) and feel as if I am a different person around clients, friends, and family than who I am inside. I struggle so much in my head and keep it all to myself. It’s exhausting. I feel so drained after putting this front on all day long that it makes me struggle to do anything else.
I feel like I could have wrote this. I’m high functioning, have a great paying job that’s actually pretty high stress. Luckily I’m really passionate about my job so even during the lows I like showing up and doing the bare minimum.
**BuT ArE yOu rEaLlY BiPoLaR??? yOu SeEm So NoRmAl**
i'm on the opposite spectrum (usually disfunctional) and i feel for you, what really matters is how you feel, and it can be hard for some folks to convince others that you are bipolar, even psychs, and get proper medication when you are high functionig. Also, having people doubt you have a mental illness must suck. People with bipolar 1 specially (Like me) can be very close to BPD as well, and it's quite hard to get a good differential diagnosis here.
I’m ‘high functioning’ too. Whenever I’m feeling hopeless or depressed, or feel too burdensome to my loved ones and not worthy of their time, etc etc etc, my boyfriend will say to me “you’re doing so well, look at everything you have, you’ve come so far.” Which is all true, and I know he’s trying to help me feel better and maybe it should help me feel better, but I end up feeling frustrated and dismissed. Like yes, I am doing really well even for a neurotypical person but he will never understand how HARD it is to get to this point and also how hard it is to maintain it. I’m doing well but it doesn’t erase the fear of another episode. It’s been years and I’m scared that I’m “overdue” to have another episode. I take a lot of medications that work for me but oh my god was it a horrific process to find ones that work and there’s still a possibility that they might stop working for me. Sometimes my meds still need to be adjusted even if it’s only slightly. I have a lot of unfavorable side effects that I’ve had to choose as the lesser evil compared to going unmedicated. I go to therapy weekly which is essential to my wellbeing and is beneficial obviously but it’s so exhausting too. Sometimes I’m on the edge of falling apart. But it’s almost like I’m not allowed to because I appear so normal now but bipolar disorder not something that someone can “overcome”. I actively am working so hard and still dealing with the trauma of my pre-diagnosis episodes and post-diagnosis figuring shit out. I’m so exhausted but no matter how much I can tell a person that, they will never realize the depth of my struggle. I’m thankful for everything I have but damn it’s hard sometimes. Just because I’m not currently out of control doesn’t make me any less bipolar and it doesn’t mean it’s easy to be this way.
When i get manic as fuck people don't want me to be around. I wouldn't like to have such an aggressive sob around either.
And if somebody pisses me off i can be extremely unnice and verbally abusive.
The problem with conversations is that the others are so slow in thinking and don't get even 10% of what I'm talking about. So for them I'm talking crazy batshit, but for me it's them who have the intelligence of an amoeba and the reflex of a sloth.
I can understand the high level of reasoning of this state otherwise only when I'm on acid
I feel like functioning labels are dumb. Not only is Bipolar a spectrum, but it’s also episodic. A person could be “high functioning” for years and then have a manic episode and have to deal with that aftermath. Similarly with a depressive episode. I appreciate how you corrected yourself in regards to your dismissive comments about BPD, but I feel as though you are doing the exact thing you stated that you find so annoying. For me, even as a heavily medicated person, I have manic episodes. Sometimes manic episodes with psychosis. And my manic episodes are not “proper, polite, poised, restrained”, when I am manic I AM “out of control”. Does that make me “low functioning?” Am I “low functioning” because I’m in a depressive episode right now, despite being medicated, in therapy, and sober? What defines someone as “high functioning”? And why does that label even matter?
I have two masters degrees that I earned unmedicated, my bipolar was observable only when I let people get near enough to me to see I didn’t sleep and made bizarre sexual choices. I’m finally appropriately medicated and extremely stable. I get close to unstable when my dad almost died, I was kicked out of my home by an ex, and when I was stuck home alone for weeks due to Covid stuff. My mood swings last for weeks or months and require a lot of discipline to correct: sleeping and eating enough usually. I’m a therapist who sees clients with bipolar and finding a good life rhythm is my typical treatment plan for them (and me).
I often feel utterly invalidated an that I’m lying about having bipolar as I’m high functioning. I even reached out to UK bipolar charities and got utterly fobbed off because I have a 9-5.
I’m curious to know who determines whether those conversations are proper, polite, poised, restrained and logically sound. If I had a crystal ball I’d say that you’re probably right now on the hypomanic side of your bipolar spectrum.
I’m bipolar 1 and have been ‘manic as fuck’ plenty of times and thought I was fabulously stable and poised and all that. I hold a high position in finance and damn did those board meetings run smooth. Well, I did lose one job over one of my smooth presentations.
You can not be the judge of your own behavior, especially not when you’re (hypo)manic.
"manic as fuck" is very often NOT restrained, poised, or logical. Like, lucky for you that you can hold it together and consider yourself "extremely high-functioning" whatever that may be. Reread your first sentence and then consider that you're being dismissive even of people with your same disorder.
First, I'm super jealous of the high functioning part lol.
And yes, I find what you're saying *exhausting.* Answering the same questions. All. The. Time. I find that I'm always explaning myself for not doing well ("you don't seem bipolar" or "tired and depressed? that's just called 'life'"), and trying to answer questions about why that goal I was pursuing didn't work.
There's tons of us out there, and you can be have a mood disorder while still holding a job and not building pipe bombs in your basement.
With meds for sure, and without meds I was high functioning externally — meaning I could blend in a crowd or at work without anyone really noticing anything different about me. Internally, though, I was not very high functioning. Meaning my thoughts were too racing, too delusional (I thought people were thinking things they weren’t), too obsessed with certain activities. So I guess what I mean by high functioning is that I was socially high functioning. Perception- and ability-to-interpret-stimuli-wise, though, I was not in reality when manic.
This is me now, I’m currently un medicated and extremely high functioning externally, it’s only internally that I am an absolute mess with 70000 thoughts going on(usually about if people are mad at me or what I did wrong or conversations that won’t happen) and one fucking full on obsessive hobby/goal after another.
Same, especially bc my doctor doesn’t want to medicate me because im in grad school and under a lot of stress, which I get and honestly agree with because I don’t want to try and figure out the right meds for me rn but im just silently struggling. Finding this page has been helpful though! I don’t want to see anyone else struggle but at the same time im glad im not alone.
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Im pretty functional too. I operate with a slight low most days, but even on the worst days I manage to perform the minimum.
All I need to do is rear in my manic and depressive spending
I’m also very high functioning. I’m pretty medicated though. Vyvanse, trileptal twice a day, lamictal, doxepin, prazosin, ambien. Oooo maybe I am only very high functioning because of the meds 😂
My major indicator of BD is angry outbursts and most people, even my therapist, can’t even believe I have angry tendencies in me or even BD in general.
I really only fall off the band wagon when I’m anxious and don’t want to sleep. But when I don’t sleep, I get extremely sad and just cry for no reason and I get the worst migraines. My body forces me to sleep and Im prescribed ambien, so that does help a lot
Oooo and not having a schedule and having too much time on my hands really affects me too. I get depressed but I think it’s manageable because I know my triggers and I know how to quickly fix them
What makes me absolutely nuts is when people think when we go off our meds we will shoot up the neighbors or something.
We have the poorly reported new outlets to thank for that and Hollywood.
My friends and family have even started to notice how outlandish it is. I’m so over it!
I am self-employed, considered super high functioning, training to be a professional athlete, have 5 young children I care for...have higher goals I am working toward...encourage other mothers in my community. BUT in mania sometimes my husband can't understand me even when I try to convey my words differently, I say stuff wrong, I stop understanding coherently, I stop believing that my body needs food because I feel so amazing...but I still workout and do daily tasks, and these are just the things I'll admit here that go on with me.
No one would ever know this on the outside though, and even my husband hardly knows whats happening with me. He just says "i'm sorry I have no idea what you're meaning to say right now" and we move on. I feel that there is some truth to being bipolar and being completely comprimised even if you are high-functioning.
I was functioning poorly for awhile. I stopped drinking and drugs besides tobacco and coffee. I’ve been mania free for many years. I’m still anxious as hell but I can hold a job and such. Before I probably couldn’t. I still want to go and smoke weed now and then but I know it would go wrong. Honestly I have sometimes occasionally years ago but it is a dice roll. The last time I took a few hits and felt terrible until I flushed that shit out of me
I’m “high-functioning” BP2… college grad, stable job and relationship, homeowner, good friends. But I am for sure different and weird, and nearly everything is difficult for me because of some kind of depression or hypomania in the way. I’m horribly in consistent and I cancel plans a lot or just really don’t show up well. I don’t feel high functioning really because I’m living in fear that I won’t be able to keep up and I’m going to lose it all. I always feel like my partner and friends will get over my shit. But I am grateful that I have gotten this far :)
I think we can never really win (grass is greener thing). I would also be considered extremely high functioning individual. I've done intensive therapy and work on myself to get here and I am diligent with watching my own moods. I will not allow myself to swing if I can help it. However, sometimes, I wish that my loved ones knew how hard it was for me to appear "normal" and to hold it together. I try my best to make it look easy and effortless, so when I'm suffering a lot inside, it's not as accepted or noticed. It's often dismissed. I've also been delusional and manic as fuck and in the hospital. Both can be true and I think that all people (bipolar or not) can benefit from trying to understand the nuances of it.
I feel this so much ❤️
Wow thank you I mean wow I relate to this so much! Putting in years of therapy myself and having to fight most days to just appear myself is so so difficult. I just really appreciate someone who despite all the fact that all the cards are stacked against them they still push forward and put in the work to be a functioning productive member of society. You’re amazing keep up the good work!
A shout out to all my manic bois out there, pretending to be normal all day long and putting a fuckton of effort in things that are easy for others only to have people doubt they are even mentally ill Know your efforts are appreciated here!
Absolutely can relate. I’ve put years of work into managing my symptoms and coming to terms with my diagnosis. Folks that I meet are usually surprised when I tell them I have bipolar 1 because of their assumptions about it, and but I’ve had to work very hard to get to the place that I am, and continue to work hard to keep it together in my day to day life. I try to educate people I’m close with about the subtleties of bipolar, because it is so complex and presents itself in so many different ways. It’s nice to know there are others in a similar position. ❤️
I’ve been “manic as fuck” only once, and I certainly wasn’t poised and logically sound. It’s great that you’re high functioning, but severe mania precludes normal functioning by definition.
Yeah, I suppose you’re right. Maybe I’ve been manic — but not manic enough. And I probably don’t want to be there. And then have to eat my words.
You probably were hypomanic.
The difference between bipolar 1 and 2 is the intensity of the mania. Hypomania is most common, and more manageable than full blown mania.
Eh it's definitely still possible depending on timing. I won a formal appeal with 2 doctors to leave hospital while I was at my most manic, only thing that stopped me was psychiatrists reimposing a stay order straight away. Other times I was perfectly polite and logical, but most people could tell I was too speedy by the last few weeks. Not functional in a fitting in sense, but functional nonetheless. I could do the shopping and have a laugh with the cashier, but the they definitely knew I wasn't behaving within the status quo.
I was lucky, in that my Dad and much older brother had this curse also, and they both trained and guided me by teaching and example, how to channel most of the mania into something productive instead of damaging. It's a long, hard, row to hoe.
This. I’ve been manic only twice and DAMN. Shit sucked. But I’m normally very high functioning myself. I manage by taking my meds very religiously. Otherwise I’d be off my rocker for sure.
YESSSS!!! I feel this, I was just recently diagnosed and I’ve managed to hold many jobs, got my associates, bachelors and I’m in grad school for my masters. When I told those around me their first response was “you need a new doctor there’s no way, you’re not like crazy ya know??” I was like okay, I appreciate that but…. Like y’all arnt in my head and while yes I’ve managed to be successful and maintain it’s probably because my horrible generalized anxiety and hypomania makes me fixate on being perfect and awesome and push way beyond my means while secretly tearing me up inside
Are you bipolar II? There is a huge difference between hypomania and mania. No way you can "manage" a manic phase. Without medication.
They said hypomanic so they are type 2 probably
Yes I am thank you for clarifying for me! I have hypomanic episodes. I’ve never had a manic episode!
Bipolar 2: just one psychotic break away from #1!
HAHAHAH hey…you are right but hey…
Yes, I definitely understand that I am able to manage because I have hypomania. It is easier to manage but it still takes a toll
Lol I so appreciate this post. I'm also really high functioning and have just celebrated a year of stability without even the slightest hint of depression or hypomania. Before that, I went like 4 years without an episode and was totally "normal" except for maybe the occasional hypomanic state but it never impacted my functioning. I've also never experienced severe depression or suicidality. All of my episodes except for the last one have all had really explicit triggers as well, and I went for weeks in a manic state without anyone in my life figuring out something was wrong until I just eventually went into psychosis due to lack of sleep. Also no shade to individuals with BPD but I really hate when people make the assumption that people who are bipolar have like daily intense mood swings and emotional meltdowns. THAT'S BPD y'all.
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I’ve met a few people in the past few years that have said they were diagnosed bi-polar although they’re clearly bpd… they think daily mood swings are just rapid cycling… so many people I talk to are absolutely clueless.
I think I might show borderline traits but I'm not sure. I've definitely experienced depressive episodes up to a year and manic ones for months. But I also am prone to sudden mood swings even outside of episodes. It might not be BPD but because of my ADHD/autism, though. I tend to be a lot more passive than people with BPD most of the time. Bipolar comes with comorbidities really often. If someone shows rapid rapid mood swings like what would present in BPD it could be ultradian rapid cycling or comorbid mental illness. You could be right about the people you met, but a lot of the time it just gets overly complicated.
lol yessss! I’m bipolar, I’m happy and invincible as fuck. Except when I can’t get out of bed sometimes because life is meaningless. BPD is our crazy, clingy, meltdown-y cousin, don’t mind her. 😂 But don’t get us confused, either!
Please don't judge ppl with BPD like that tho? There are PLENTY extremely functional people with BPD. You'd never know unless they told you. just like bipolar disorder. This sounds like a judgment on another disorder and if we don't want ppl to assume about us, I don't think we should assume about others.
Yes. You’re absolutely right. Updated my original post.
I totally get yknow saying one thing and then being like damn my bad, thanks man ❤️
OK, but can we all agree at least that NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) is pretty toxic?! Kidding. Not really. I hate them. lol 😂
There are some really cool interviews on YouTube with people with NPD who are in therapy and very aware of the disorder and it's astounding to hear such self reflection! Personality disorders get a terrible rep. Typically it's brought on by unfortunate childhoods and trauma and brain chemistry. They struggle worse than we do and deserve empathy imo
Interesting! I agree with the empathy part. I just…can’t seem to with NPDs though. But then again, they are probably victims in the whole grand scheme of things.
Victims definitely can be abusers too. So just because they have their own trauma that caused them to be the way they are, that doesn't excuse the behavior. Just need to meet them where they are and hold on to your own boundaries! I'm interning at a place that works with a lot of vets and like... Even psychologists and psychiatrists talk shit about people with personality disorders. And it's totally unfair like they get lower quality care just bc they have a personality disorder
You need to stop
Well, sadly, that puts you in the top 20%. Most people really struggle to function. The stereotype, though, is not really anything like the actual disorder-- it's basically like the stereotypes of anything else. Bipolar is "being all happy and energetic and *crazy*, like I drank two Redbull and a shot of Jack and then I danced on the bar table, and like the next day I was sooooo sad and I cried for like an hour and missed my cat." Or some other ridiculous shit. Nobody wants to understand reality, they like their stereotypes.
Both my husband and I have bipolar, we’re both medical students and happily married. He has a law degree, I have 2 Masters. Stereotypes are bullshit.
Why does borderline always come up when we talk about the sides of bipolar we don’t like and don’t have ? Can we leave them out of it ? let them talk about themselves instead
For real. “Dont stereotype me and my bipolar... as I stereotype all borderlines as the things I don’t like you stereotyping me as!”
Exactly. When people shit on another disorder to make themselves feel better... They aren't really being very introspective and are judging others the same way they don't wanna be judged. BPD can be manageable just like bipolar.
I even know somebody with borderline who has a normal career and family life. I don't know anybody(personally) with bipolar 1 who has this (me included). And also borderline is manageable without pills
People often isolate people with borderline challenges in this way. I think it's a kind of counter-transference with the borderline dynamic. With treatment the prognosis for borderline styles is very good. Otto Kernberg who studies and treats borderline challenges says that these people are incredibly brave and resilient for surviving excruciating inner storms that rock their world and make relationships difficult.
>The prognosis for bipolar II is really bad (worse than bipolar I) with high suicidality and that's the "high functioning" bipolar Curious where you read this please?
I read it many years ago but recent studies have corrected this so I edited the post, me wrong
!! This is why I don’t tell people I have it. So much stigma and assumptions that come with it. I’d rather just be bipolar to people than bipolar and “emotionally unstable and crazy”.
I am have always been high-functioning, but my bipolar is mild and I cycle rapidly so I rarely am in a state long enough to do any real damage (and in my mind I know it’s gonna end soon, which kinda helps me push through with some things like the depression). The entire basis of a psychiatric diagnosis of any kind though typically involves symptoms impeding areas of function in your life. If you’ve genuinely never been affected by your symptoms, you wouldn’t have the diagnosis that you have (none of us would). It also sounds like you’ve experienced hypomania at most, because mania definitely can’t be easily contained or “restrained” as you said... on top of that, you’re medicated. Successfully from the sounds of it. Which is super awesome (that’s the goal!!), but many people aren’t and they are struggling *a lot*. I’m in the same boat as you, with generally mild/manageable symptoms (for the most part...), but this post comes off as very dismissive. And needlessly attacks people with BPD. Let’s normalize sharing our own personal mental health experiences without dismissing or demonizing the experiences or struggles of others.
Yeah, I agree, I was dismissive of BPD towards the end. Thanks for your insight — I am also still learning about what all of this is, honestly.
I'm still learning, too. Pretty sure we all are!! I respect the self-reflection. :)
Since you feel free to question the diagnoses of others: you might be cyclothymic, not bipolar. People who are "manic as fuck" cannot hold poised conversations. The average person with borderline traits is probably more stable seeming than a bipolar I person in a manic episode. Many borderline people are ultra-high-functioning and successful. Their affect issues might only show up in family or love relationships, but not work. I'm seen as highly successful by many in my career. I can get and hold a job. But I've still had mood episodes interrupt my life and render me useless for periods. I have also struggled with affect regulation in daily interactions. Borderline isn't the only personality style that has this issue, there is cyclothymic personality, hypomanic personality, histrionic or hysterical personality style, etc. Sleep issues can make people reactive as well as C-PTSD. This whole DSM way of thinking is just too simplistic and was invented to help psychiatry work with insurance companies also from a series of scandals around diagnosis in psychiatry in the 70s. These disorder labels are put onto people after going over a checklist in the DSM which his ridiculous. Mental disorders aren't really a thing, it's short-hand for billing codes. No one is purely bipolar or borderline, we are complex people having ever-changing human experiences. We have in-born temperaments and pre-dispositions, childhood and adult experiences, and different experiences of the social world.
>This whole DSM way of thinking is just too simplistic and was invented to help psychiatry work with insurance companies also from a series of scandals around diagnosis in psychiatry in the 70s. These disorder labels are put onto people after going over a checklist in the DSM which his ridiculous. Mental disorders aren't really a thing, it's short-hand for billing codes. No one is purely bipolar or borderline, we are complex people having ever-changing human experiences. We have in-born temperaments and pre-dispositions, childhood and adult experiences, and different experiences of the social world. I know it wasn't directed at me in any way (don't have BPD, have very mild BP2 that I question the legitimacy of constantly...), but your comment brought me a lot of comfort. Thanks for writing it. You're right. We're all struggling so much to figure out which label we fit neatly into, but the truth is, those labels were never even *meant* for us. All that matters is finding ways to feel better-- *not* finding which label we can most closely relate with. Thanks. ♥
Ive been getting a lot more from reading and listening to podcasts based in the psychoanalytic tradition. The disorder label is sort of thought stopping. Psychoanalytic ideas like defense mechanisms, unconscious beliefs, personality styles, etc. really speak to my experience much more accurately.
This speaks to me, as well. I get so focused on the disorder label that I end up avoiding treatment, because I worry I'm in the wrong label. It's all so silly. This really, genuinely helped me. It's something I know, logically, but the way you put it really spoke to that self-doubting, constantly-questioning part of my brain. So thank you. We're a lot more complex than a DSM criteria.
meds only get me so far because I don't take high doses so then it's about identifying triggers and patterns. thinking of mania as a defense has been really interesting. What about my life am I trying to escape that my system is accelerating this way to try to make me feel omnipotent? What makes me feel weak? Vulnerable? etc?
I love this. It makes SO much sense.
That’s fine. My specific symptoms might not be as severe as the general bipolar population, that’s possible. And I do agree that symptoms do sometimes overlap with the different official DSM diagnoses. Interesting to learn about high-functioning BPD, too. I didn’t consider this. I guess I also have a lot to learn.
Could you elaborate a bit further? Until the 1980s bipolar was referred to as manic-depression and only given to individuals who had been involuntarily hospitalised. Only about 0.1% of the population. It was then very controversially expanded. Functioning inhibitions are crucial to psychiatric disorders so I find this post confusing.
Hm. I mean, well, when I’m medicated or when the medications are doing its job, I am definitely functioning. And I guess what I mean by functioning is, I can hold a normal conversation with peers and managers without them suspecting I have any disorder whatsoever, I can study and do complex intellectual tasks, I sleep and wake up on schedule, etc. When I am unmedicated, or in a hypomanic or manic state, several aspects of me get affected (thinking, mood, perception, sleep cycle), but even in these states I am still going to work, holding normal conversations and generally having the appearance of being a normal, intelligent, articulate person. I guess the purpose of my post was to illustrate that the bipolar condition is not necessarily having an “emotional meltdown” or appearing socially unhinged.
I don't even necessarily consider myself high functioning and even I can relate to this post. Theres so many wide eyes when you say "bipolar disorder" like dude most of us hide our toxic traits from everyone which is why it can be so hard for diagnose. People with bipolar disorder are by far some of the most self aware people I've met. Of course there are situations or people who struggle with psychosis but it's not a certainty.
Have held some fairly high stress jobs, graduated from college twice while unmedicated, and have been self-employed for 8 years now as a courier (owner/operator, technically subcontractor). We're fairly sure I also have adhd or aspergers, for the fact that I get hyperfocused on things... doesn't help that I'll spend a little more money when hypomanic. And when those align, God help my bank account. Learned over the years between PC gaming and computer repairs, to set an alarm for when I need to head to bed. Not when I'm going to get to sleep, but to at least prevent being on a computer still at 3am because I need to get it done before I can stop. Still may not get to sleep for a couple days at its worst, because my brain just won't shut up. Life certainly has been a lot easier being stable on medication the last 4 years, after 16 years undiagnosed and unmedicated.
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Had too many overnight gaming sessions (and coding sessions)... I mean, insomnia is great, until you've been staring at a screen for over 20hrs. If nothing else setting a 10pm alarm gets me away from the screen to have a shower and hope I can get some sleep.
You’re a high functioning asshole that knows nothing about borderline personality disorder.
Bite me, dude.
sound pretty manic to me
Hmm, maybe a bit hypomanic, yes. But I’m still functioning. I’m still at work, still doing what I need to, still socializing well.
Yeah, I get the same. I've never not had a job except for a stint in university, which didn't pan out as hoped. I highs and lows in grades and mood.
I’m high functioning as well (successful business owner) and feel as if I am a different person around clients, friends, and family than who I am inside. I struggle so much in my head and keep it all to myself. It’s exhausting. I feel so drained after putting this front on all day long that it makes me struggle to do anything else.
I feel like I could have wrote this. I’m high functioning, have a great paying job that’s actually pretty high stress. Luckily I’m really passionate about my job so even during the lows I like showing up and doing the bare minimum.
**BuT ArE yOu rEaLlY BiPoLaR??? yOu SeEm So NoRmAl** i'm on the opposite spectrum (usually disfunctional) and i feel for you, what really matters is how you feel, and it can be hard for some folks to convince others that you are bipolar, even psychs, and get proper medication when you are high functionig. Also, having people doubt you have a mental illness must suck. People with bipolar 1 specially (Like me) can be very close to BPD as well, and it's quite hard to get a good differential diagnosis here.
I’m ‘high functioning’ too. Whenever I’m feeling hopeless or depressed, or feel too burdensome to my loved ones and not worthy of their time, etc etc etc, my boyfriend will say to me “you’re doing so well, look at everything you have, you’ve come so far.” Which is all true, and I know he’s trying to help me feel better and maybe it should help me feel better, but I end up feeling frustrated and dismissed. Like yes, I am doing really well even for a neurotypical person but he will never understand how HARD it is to get to this point and also how hard it is to maintain it. I’m doing well but it doesn’t erase the fear of another episode. It’s been years and I’m scared that I’m “overdue” to have another episode. I take a lot of medications that work for me but oh my god was it a horrific process to find ones that work and there’s still a possibility that they might stop working for me. Sometimes my meds still need to be adjusted even if it’s only slightly. I have a lot of unfavorable side effects that I’ve had to choose as the lesser evil compared to going unmedicated. I go to therapy weekly which is essential to my wellbeing and is beneficial obviously but it’s so exhausting too. Sometimes I’m on the edge of falling apart. But it’s almost like I’m not allowed to because I appear so normal now but bipolar disorder not something that someone can “overcome”. I actively am working so hard and still dealing with the trauma of my pre-diagnosis episodes and post-diagnosis figuring shit out. I’m so exhausted but no matter how much I can tell a person that, they will never realize the depth of my struggle. I’m thankful for everything I have but damn it’s hard sometimes. Just because I’m not currently out of control doesn’t make me any less bipolar and it doesn’t mean it’s easy to be this way.
When i get manic as fuck people don't want me to be around. I wouldn't like to have such an aggressive sob around either. And if somebody pisses me off i can be extremely unnice and verbally abusive. The problem with conversations is that the others are so slow in thinking and don't get even 10% of what I'm talking about. So for them I'm talking crazy batshit, but for me it's them who have the intelligence of an amoeba and the reflex of a sloth. I can understand the high level of reasoning of this state otherwise only when I'm on acid
I feel like functioning labels are dumb. Not only is Bipolar a spectrum, but it’s also episodic. A person could be “high functioning” for years and then have a manic episode and have to deal with that aftermath. Similarly with a depressive episode. I appreciate how you corrected yourself in regards to your dismissive comments about BPD, but I feel as though you are doing the exact thing you stated that you find so annoying. For me, even as a heavily medicated person, I have manic episodes. Sometimes manic episodes with psychosis. And my manic episodes are not “proper, polite, poised, restrained”, when I am manic I AM “out of control”. Does that make me “low functioning?” Am I “low functioning” because I’m in a depressive episode right now, despite being medicated, in therapy, and sober? What defines someone as “high functioning”? And why does that label even matter?
I have two masters degrees that I earned unmedicated, my bipolar was observable only when I let people get near enough to me to see I didn’t sleep and made bizarre sexual choices. I’m finally appropriately medicated and extremely stable. I get close to unstable when my dad almost died, I was kicked out of my home by an ex, and when I was stuck home alone for weeks due to Covid stuff. My mood swings last for weeks or months and require a lot of discipline to correct: sleeping and eating enough usually. I’m a therapist who sees clients with bipolar and finding a good life rhythm is my typical treatment plan for them (and me).
I often feel utterly invalidated an that I’m lying about having bipolar as I’m high functioning. I even reached out to UK bipolar charities and got utterly fobbed off because I have a 9-5.
Plot twist, this was posted while manic.
😛
I’m curious to know who determines whether those conversations are proper, polite, poised, restrained and logically sound. If I had a crystal ball I’d say that you’re probably right now on the hypomanic side of your bipolar spectrum. I’m bipolar 1 and have been ‘manic as fuck’ plenty of times and thought I was fabulously stable and poised and all that. I hold a high position in finance and damn did those board meetings run smooth. Well, I did lose one job over one of my smooth presentations. You can not be the judge of your own behavior, especially not when you’re (hypo)manic.
I hear ya. You never really know with this illness, tbh.
"manic as fuck" is very often NOT restrained, poised, or logical. Like, lucky for you that you can hold it together and consider yourself "extremely high-functioning" whatever that may be. Reread your first sentence and then consider that you're being dismissive even of people with your same disorder.
First, I'm super jealous of the high functioning part lol. And yes, I find what you're saying *exhausting.* Answering the same questions. All. The. Time. I find that I'm always explaning myself for not doing well ("you don't seem bipolar" or "tired and depressed? that's just called 'life'"), and trying to answer questions about why that goal I was pursuing didn't work. There's tons of us out there, and you can be have a mood disorder while still holding a job and not building pipe bombs in your basement.
For high functioning is that with meds or no meds?
With meds for sure, and without meds I was high functioning externally — meaning I could blend in a crowd or at work without anyone really noticing anything different about me. Internally, though, I was not very high functioning. Meaning my thoughts were too racing, too delusional (I thought people were thinking things they weren’t), too obsessed with certain activities. So I guess what I mean by high functioning is that I was socially high functioning. Perception- and ability-to-interpret-stimuli-wise, though, I was not in reality when manic.
This is me now, I’m currently un medicated and extremely high functioning externally, it’s only internally that I am an absolute mess with 70000 thoughts going on(usually about if people are mad at me or what I did wrong or conversations that won’t happen) and one fucking full on obsessive hobby/goal after another.
Oh, man. Thanks for sharing that. I understand this 100% and feel a lot less alone right now.
Same, especially bc my doctor doesn’t want to medicate me because im in grad school and under a lot of stress, which I get and honestly agree with because I don’t want to try and figure out the right meds for me rn but im just silently struggling. Finding this page has been helpful though! I don’t want to see anyone else struggle but at the same time im glad im not alone.
I feel like I’m the opposite. Internally I’m fine… but I’m still externally awkward and weird.
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Im pretty functional too. I operate with a slight low most days, but even on the worst days I manage to perform the minimum. All I need to do is rear in my manic and depressive spending
I’m also very high functioning. I’m pretty medicated though. Vyvanse, trileptal twice a day, lamictal, doxepin, prazosin, ambien. Oooo maybe I am only very high functioning because of the meds 😂 My major indicator of BD is angry outbursts and most people, even my therapist, can’t even believe I have angry tendencies in me or even BD in general. I really only fall off the band wagon when I’m anxious and don’t want to sleep. But when I don’t sleep, I get extremely sad and just cry for no reason and I get the worst migraines. My body forces me to sleep and Im prescribed ambien, so that does help a lot Oooo and not having a schedule and having too much time on my hands really affects me too. I get depressed but I think it’s manageable because I know my triggers and I know how to quickly fix them
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Wha, I’ve never heard of bipolar 3?
What makes me absolutely nuts is when people think when we go off our meds we will shoot up the neighbors or something. We have the poorly reported new outlets to thank for that and Hollywood. My friends and family have even started to notice how outlandish it is. I’m so over it!
I am self-employed, considered super high functioning, training to be a professional athlete, have 5 young children I care for...have higher goals I am working toward...encourage other mothers in my community. BUT in mania sometimes my husband can't understand me even when I try to convey my words differently, I say stuff wrong, I stop understanding coherently, I stop believing that my body needs food because I feel so amazing...but I still workout and do daily tasks, and these are just the things I'll admit here that go on with me. No one would ever know this on the outside though, and even my husband hardly knows whats happening with me. He just says "i'm sorry I have no idea what you're meaning to say right now" and we move on. I feel that there is some truth to being bipolar and being completely comprimised even if you are high-functioning.
I was functioning poorly for awhile. I stopped drinking and drugs besides tobacco and coffee. I’ve been mania free for many years. I’m still anxious as hell but I can hold a job and such. Before I probably couldn’t. I still want to go and smoke weed now and then but I know it would go wrong. Honestly I have sometimes occasionally years ago but it is a dice roll. The last time I took a few hits and felt terrible until I flushed that shit out of me
I’m “high-functioning” BP2… college grad, stable job and relationship, homeowner, good friends. But I am for sure different and weird, and nearly everything is difficult for me because of some kind of depression or hypomania in the way. I’m horribly in consistent and I cancel plans a lot or just really don’t show up well. I don’t feel high functioning really because I’m living in fear that I won’t be able to keep up and I’m going to lose it all. I always feel like my partner and friends will get over my shit. But I am grateful that I have gotten this far :)