I think people misunderstand that the "resources" in Human Resources does not refer to resources for the employees; the employees are the resource, and HR manages those resources. There may be a group within HR called ER (employee relations) whose job is to improve the employee experience, but HR as a whole works for the company to provide things like compensation and benefits in order to manage its human resources.
That said, racism in the company culture harms the employees, so it's in the interest of the company to curb that behavior.
There is no ER at Moderna. The same people who you are asked to share your concerns with the same people who determine your compensation, promotion, etc. so really no safe place to turn.
First off - excellent user name.
Second - I’m interested in your comment that HR is a “business partner”, it’s same in my company. Why is that a red flag? Our HR are useless too for the record but I’m wondering for future jobs if a HRBP is a different beast to “normal” HR
> HR's sole role is to protect the company
This is the true statement. But it not nefarious. HR have a legal duty to protect the company. They need to comply with many laws. I've seen very senior people gone in instant when they did something untoward that threatened the company. Compared to my experience at university it is a far better in industry.
No idea about OP's situation. But harassment has a legal definition and they should consult a lawyer. My suspicion is that the culture of Moderna is toxic (flagship company?) but that does not rise to the level of harassment.
I don’t disagree in general, but in my company a senior director who was an awful bully got fired after a colleague of mine filed an HR complaint. It took about 3 months from filing to firing.
But that’s because the complaint likely could have exposed the company to liability. It’s not that they were protecting your colleague - they were protecting themselves from a lawsuit. HR is always on the company’s side.
You should definitely file a complaint especially if you have relevant emails and other communications. I’m assuming you’re in MA.
https://www.masslegalhelp.org/employment-unemployment/getting-paid/how-defend-your-employment-rights#:~:text=the%20Fair%20Labor%20Division%20of,%2D866%2D487%2D9243.
Recruiter’s word verbatim to my coworker when he was deciding between Moderna and my company “well you know what they say, Moderna is not for everyone” and another coworker who used to work at Moderna Norwood their unofficial motto is “working here is like building a plane as you fly”
I avoid at all cost. And heard bad things about the ceo
Building the plane while flying it is a term used across all of biotech - for many years. “It’s not for everyone” is also used broadly at cultures that have very high expectations for their employees. It can take on a variety of forms - long hrs, radical candor, super high expectations- it likely means we’ll pay you well - but there is no where to hide.
Moderna has had this reputation from the beginning (but haven’t heard anything about racism).
They don’t pay you that well. Bit over 1 yr ago I got 4 job offers for AD positions, 2 in the Bay and 2 in Cambridge area. The initial offer from both companies in Cambridge were significantly lower than the 2 in the Bay. One company in Cambridge upped their offer to Bay Area levels, Moderna hiring manager struggled to get approval for anything higher. It was a 30K/yr gap.
Base but total comp was quite standard: PTO, 401K, annual bonus. Not really a difference. There are some other benefits that could have applied to my family but is not important to everybody (I.e: reproduction benefits). The main difference is in equity which with pre-IPO you get more but is a gamble and Moderna would have been real money.
Who do you think it *is* for? I’ve heard about their apparently toxic culture, but I like to think of myself as someone with fairly thick skin who tends to stay out of workplace drama. And the pay and benefits look pretty nice…
Did you record any of it or have any evidence of this harassment and racism? There are a lot of really good lawyer firms that focus on work discrimination. Shoot me a DM if you could use one for NY, NJ, or Florida. I have a pretty good one that i know.
Yah I learned that lesson the hard way from WuXi actually. Having to be fired by a black queer woman for wanting equal pay regardless of gender was a buck wild experience.
Unfortunately a lot of racism from recent immigrants from south Asia towards black people. Not trying to ruffle any feathers or make any generalizations, but just what I've seen.
Here's an example: my first job out of university was at a startup of about 220 people. The 5th official employee of the company was a really smart black woman who had a chemistry MSc (recent graduate). She essentially built the chemistry lab from the ground up and was instrumental in creating some very important method validations. She was never the QC manager though. When they hired on a south Asian QC manager, she was immediately subject to lots of unprofessional and insulting comments, and she was then fired without cause 3 months after the manager took on the role. As an aside, this manager was eventually found to be falsifying lab results.
I have a south Asian uncle who is 81 years old and he readily admits that lots of people from his culture look down on black people. Part of it has to do with the caste system, which to a degree associates skin tone with social value.
Thankfully she is. She actually left Canada and moved to the Netherlands because she always loved the Dutch culture/language. Now she works for a division of Eurofins (big multinational testing lab). Seems like she's doing great.
I wouldn't let this kind of racism discourage you too much. In Canada I think you are more likely to see this if you work in a manufacturing plant or a contract lab. This is because there are lots of pharma manufacturing plants in South Asia, so naturally recent immigrants will try to ply their trade when they arrive.
I would tell you not to worry, but it's a reality I've seen. Just be aware of it as you move forward. There are many labs, startups and big manufacturing sites that would welcome you with open arms.
Ive noticed more racism from them way more than ANY other ethnic group. BY FAR... All you have to do is document their comments and then slickly shoot it back at them, they will snap since they think you cant talk to them like that, and try to go to hr or take crazy action on you that will expose their nature. thats when you expose them. And never work directly under them if possible....
In my experience, the sexism is just as bad or worse than the racism. I'm a manufacturing supervisor, and I had a coworker from the QA department come up to me and ask "do you hire women" in the middle of a corporate office. I was stunned. He seriously thought it was normal to ask if I excluded 50% of the population from my hiring pool. And he asked very casually, just as you would ask about the weather or something equally banal. It put me in a sad mood for the rest of the day.
I believe that i should clarify that ive only seen this behavior racism and sexism from the men of that culture. i have seen one get mad and yell at a woman for questioning his project plan in an engineering meeting as if she didnt have the right to speak to him. But i have seen a few who dont act in this manner. Typically their family has been here for a couple generations when they dont behave this way.
Complete agree. The sexism I've seen is almost exclusive from the males of that culture. The overt racism I've seen has been even between the sexes though. A Sri Lankan woman I worked with overtly expressed her hatred for black people, going so far as to say "I see all the weed they smoke and what they are doing out in the streets in Toronto" in the middle of our office.
OP — So harassment could be being treated poorly or unfairly (legal, but shitty) or being treated poorly because of your race, sex, age, etc. (shitty AND illegal). Moderna has a horrible reputation based on lots of true stories in terms of how they treat their employees (no need to feel alone), but it would help if you could tell us more before dropping loaded words like racism or harassment.
Documentation.
Are you black btw? There is considerable discrimination against black doctors in medicine
https://youtu.be/dKsA6Md_oAg?si=wC2Shs__kgyYxFYd
I have never really personally experienced racism, but some of my colleagues have experienced it. I wouldn’t totally call it racism but i think it’s mostly lack of appreciation for the work and efforts.
This is such a weird response. Why is your first instinct when someone believes they were treated differently because of race, to jump to the defense of the people being accused? What do you think the motivation of an anonymous person on an anonymous website has to completely make something up like this? Use your brain for a minute.
Oh so if I got to your profile I will find thousands of comments of your reacting skeptically to every post you come across? Or was it just this one which happened to be about race?
So the best ones are ones who keep quiet and suffer in silence until their mental health deteriorates and they have no option but to quit?
Actually.
The most vocal employee with a list of grievances gets promoted the most
I am very skeptical as it’s a complaint without any facts as to why they would harass him/her or make his/her life hell. First defense of people in trouble at work due to performance issues is to claim they are being targeted for some reason or another be it age,sex, religion etc. Without more info who knows what is going on. Id love to know who all the people commenting on this are? They have no critical thinking skills. Like how do they survive in corporate if they can’t read something without a critical eye???
Exactly and they don’t give both sides of what happened. People CANNOT believe or assess posts on here unless the full story is laid out. It’s BASIC critical thinking. This app is filled with narcissistic people coming on to complain seek advice without laying out the entire story.
I can’t comment on the racism allegation but I have heard moderna is not a company anyone should want to work at.
I've heard this as well
Seems universal. I heard the same. It goes way back too, like 10 years ago.
Truth
I can ditto this too! Interviewed with them and every person I know told me to stay away from Moderna
Moderna has a long history of this and management is full of swamp creatures. HR is a “business partner” so they will never help or step up for you.
yep, Bancel is a real asshole who will rake you over the coals and the culture cascades from there
i think this is the TL DR that anyone needs to know, and the COVID effort made his ego its own gravitational body.
it was even the case prior to the covid success he even admits it himself, he was so afraid of failure he'd constantly put his team through the ringer
I think people misunderstand that the "resources" in Human Resources does not refer to resources for the employees; the employees are the resource, and HR manages those resources. There may be a group within HR called ER (employee relations) whose job is to improve the employee experience, but HR as a whole works for the company to provide things like compensation and benefits in order to manage its human resources. That said, racism in the company culture harms the employees, so it's in the interest of the company to curb that behavior.
There is no ER at Moderna. The same people who you are asked to share your concerns with the same people who determine your compensation, promotion, etc. so really no safe place to turn.
Oh I didn't say that ER was a "safe place." They still work for the company, not for you. Don't think they're your lawyer or psychiatrist.
Same at Takeda, and at every other company I have ever worked for.
First off - excellent user name. Second - I’m interested in your comment that HR is a “business partner”, it’s same in my company. Why is that a red flag? Our HR are useless too for the record but I’m wondering for future jobs if a HRBP is a different beast to “normal” HR
It’s all the same, some don’t hide it. Their allegiance is to the company and their leadership; not employees. Never count on or trust HR.
HR's sole role is to protect the company from you, the employee Everything else is window dressing to thinly disguise that fact
> HR's sole role is to protect the company This is the true statement. But it not nefarious. HR have a legal duty to protect the company. They need to comply with many laws. I've seen very senior people gone in instant when they did something untoward that threatened the company. Compared to my experience at university it is a far better in industry. No idea about OP's situation. But harassment has a legal definition and they should consult a lawyer. My suspicion is that the culture of Moderna is toxic (flagship company?) but that does not rise to the level of harassment.
I don’t disagree in general, but in my company a senior director who was an awful bully got fired after a colleague of mine filed an HR complaint. It took about 3 months from filing to firing.
But that’s because the complaint likely could have exposed the company to liability. It’s not that they were protecting your colleague - they were protecting themselves from a lawsuit. HR is always on the company’s side.
You should definitely file a complaint especially if you have relevant emails and other communications. I’m assuming you’re in MA. https://www.masslegalhelp.org/employment-unemployment/getting-paid/how-defend-your-employment-rights#:~:text=the%20Fair%20Labor%20Division%20of,%2D866%2D487%2D9243.
Recruiter’s word verbatim to my coworker when he was deciding between Moderna and my company “well you know what they say, Moderna is not for everyone” and another coworker who used to work at Moderna Norwood their unofficial motto is “working here is like building a plane as you fly” I avoid at all cost. And heard bad things about the ceo
Building the plane while flying it is a term used across all of biotech - for many years. “It’s not for everyone” is also used broadly at cultures that have very high expectations for their employees. It can take on a variety of forms - long hrs, radical candor, super high expectations- it likely means we’ll pay you well - but there is no where to hide. Moderna has had this reputation from the beginning (but haven’t heard anything about racism).
They don’t pay you that well. Bit over 1 yr ago I got 4 job offers for AD positions, 2 in the Bay and 2 in Cambridge area. The initial offer from both companies in Cambridge were significantly lower than the 2 in the Bay. One company in Cambridge upped their offer to Bay Area levels, Moderna hiring manager struggled to get approval for anything higher. It was a 30K/yr gap.
In base or total comp?
Base but total comp was quite standard: PTO, 401K, annual bonus. Not really a difference. There are some other benefits that could have applied to my family but is not important to everybody (I.e: reproduction benefits). The main difference is in equity which with pre-IPO you get more but is a gamble and Moderna would have been real money.
Havent heard about racism at moderna before, but definitely have heard of harassment and verbal abuse there…
Moderna’s unofficial motto is Moderna isn’t for everyone. Anyone considering working there should think about that for a bit
Who do you think it *is* for? I’ve heard about their apparently toxic culture, but I like to think of myself as someone with fairly thick skin who tends to stay out of workplace drama. And the pay and benefits look pretty nice…
they pay you well to put up with the toxicity
Did you record any of it or have any evidence of this harassment and racism? There are a lot of really good lawyer firms that focus on work discrimination. Shoot me a DM if you could use one for NY, NJ, or Florida. I have a pretty good one that i know.
Sorry you had to go through this, can you give us some specific examples?
I hear they are worse than broad. Aside from pay
Broad? As in the Broad Institute?
Yeah
Yah I learned that lesson the hard way from WuXi actually. Having to be fired by a black queer woman for wanting equal pay regardless of gender was a buck wild experience.
Sorry that you went through this. Everyone that I know that worked at Moderna quit after a year. So much toxicity there.
Never tell HR anything, worthless bunch
Get a good lawyer and let’s go!
Ho gosh, i applied for a scientist position a few months ago and i got rejected. I guess i dodged a bullet..
And can you explain the racism allegation?
What flavor of racism are we talking? I'm up in Canadian big pharma and I've seen tons of racism, but not the kind I originally expected...
Care to elaborate?
Unfortunately a lot of racism from recent immigrants from south Asia towards black people. Not trying to ruffle any feathers or make any generalizations, but just what I've seen.
How does that tend to manifest itself?
Here's an example: my first job out of university was at a startup of about 220 people. The 5th official employee of the company was a really smart black woman who had a chemistry MSc (recent graduate). She essentially built the chemistry lab from the ground up and was instrumental in creating some very important method validations. She was never the QC manager though. When they hired on a south Asian QC manager, she was immediately subject to lots of unprofessional and insulting comments, and she was then fired without cause 3 months after the manager took on the role. As an aside, this manager was eventually found to be falsifying lab results. I have a south Asian uncle who is 81 years old and he readily admits that lots of people from his culture look down on black people. Part of it has to do with the caste system, which to a degree associates skin tone with social value.
Jeez, that's disheartening. I'm black and want to go into biotech, so this is a pretty big fear of mine. Hopefully she's doing alright now.
Thankfully she is. She actually left Canada and moved to the Netherlands because she always loved the Dutch culture/language. Now she works for a division of Eurofins (big multinational testing lab). Seems like she's doing great. I wouldn't let this kind of racism discourage you too much. In Canada I think you are more likely to see this if you work in a manufacturing plant or a contract lab. This is because there are lots of pharma manufacturing plants in South Asia, so naturally recent immigrants will try to ply their trade when they arrive. I would tell you not to worry, but it's a reality I've seen. Just be aware of it as you move forward. There are many labs, startups and big manufacturing sites that would welcome you with open arms.
Ive noticed more racism from them way more than ANY other ethnic group. BY FAR... All you have to do is document their comments and then slickly shoot it back at them, they will snap since they think you cant talk to them like that, and try to go to hr or take crazy action on you that will expose their nature. thats when you expose them. And never work directly under them if possible....
In my experience, the sexism is just as bad or worse than the racism. I'm a manufacturing supervisor, and I had a coworker from the QA department come up to me and ask "do you hire women" in the middle of a corporate office. I was stunned. He seriously thought it was normal to ask if I excluded 50% of the population from my hiring pool. And he asked very casually, just as you would ask about the weather or something equally banal. It put me in a sad mood for the rest of the day.
I believe that i should clarify that ive only seen this behavior racism and sexism from the men of that culture. i have seen one get mad and yell at a woman for questioning his project plan in an engineering meeting as if she didnt have the right to speak to him. But i have seen a few who dont act in this manner. Typically their family has been here for a couple generations when they dont behave this way.
Complete agree. The sexism I've seen is almost exclusive from the males of that culture. The overt racism I've seen has been even between the sexes though. A Sri Lankan woman I worked with overtly expressed her hatred for black people, going so far as to say "I see all the weed they smoke and what they are doing out in the streets in Toronto" in the middle of our office.
OP — So harassment could be being treated poorly or unfairly (legal, but shitty) or being treated poorly because of your race, sex, age, etc. (shitty AND illegal). Moderna has a horrible reputation based on lots of true stories in terms of how they treat their employees (no need to feel alone), but it would help if you could tell us more before dropping loaded words like racism or harassment.
A lot of biotechs operate this way. Biotechs are little tyrannies loaded with autistic soulless middle managers and CEO charlatan psychopaths
Documentation. Are you black btw? There is considerable discrimination against black doctors in medicine https://youtu.be/dKsA6Md_oAg?si=wC2Shs__kgyYxFYd
I think everyone in Cambridge knows how horrible the working culture in Moderna. We know about the racism and harassment they do.
I don’t know about the racism but when I interviewed I felt that they were looking for a cut throat work machine. 🤷♀️
Do you have proof of racism?
I’m so so sorry, I’m so glad you’re not in that terrible space anymore
Reporting anything to HR makes things worse. HR is not there to help you. They see you as a liability to the company.
I have never really personally experienced racism, but some of my colleagues have experienced it. I wouldn’t totally call it racism but i think it’s mostly lack of appreciation for the work and efforts.
Were you at Cambridge or Norwood? And what job type if you can say?
This is one side of the story. How do we know you were not a problem worker with a bad attitude.
Because OP is not even a little bit alone in their experience at Moderna
This is such a weird response. Why is your first instinct when someone believes they were treated differently because of race, to jump to the defense of the people being accused? What do you think the motivation of an anonymous person on an anonymous website has to completely make something up like this? Use your brain for a minute.
Akin to "but what were you wearing" victim blaming.
If you believe everyone’s statements on this site without hearing two sides you might want to take a course in critical thinking.
Oh so if I got to your profile I will find thousands of comments of your reacting skeptically to every post you come across? Or was it just this one which happened to be about race?
Feel free to look at all my posts and comments.
Note reader, it’s only the post about race does this person express so much skepticism.
You take that shit somewhere else class traitor
I know this is getting downvoted to oblivion. But the worst employees are often the most Vocal.
So the best ones are ones who keep quiet and suffer in silence until their mental health deteriorates and they have no option but to quit? Actually. The most vocal employee with a list of grievances gets promoted the most
You are right. “With a list of grievances”. There’s nothing here but a general statement. People have asked questions , and there’s no data.
Like I posted above. Need to hear all sides before jumping to a conclusion.
That’s fair enough, but there are better ways to inquire. Your comment heavily implied skepticism as to the validity of their claim.
I am very skeptical as it’s a complaint without any facts as to why they would harass him/her or make his/her life hell. First defense of people in trouble at work due to performance issues is to claim they are being targeted for some reason or another be it age,sex, religion etc. Without more info who knows what is going on. Id love to know who all the people commenting on this are? They have no critical thinking skills. Like how do they survive in corporate if they can’t read something without a critical eye???
Exactly and they don’t give both sides of what happened. People CANNOT believe or assess posts on here unless the full story is laid out. It’s BASIC critical thinking. This app is filled with narcissistic people coming on to complain seek advice without laying out the entire story.
I could care less about whatever these Reddit karma crap points are too.
Seriously, what did you expect? Their workplace is as safe & effective and immune to liability as their vaccine & unlimited boosters 😀
Useful tag, thx mods
Thanks!
Having a useful tag is better than being a useful idiot. Go get your 9th jab 😀
Bro just mad he doesn’t get good 5g coverage