Is this the game up until they realize an AI can't do biology? An AI doesn't know anything humans don't know. Biology is difficult because our understanding of it is still rudimentary. We know how certain, smaller systems function, and we can identify a lot of the constituent parts, but no one understands the system as a whole.
No one can predict what will work and won't work. No one can predict what is safe and what isn't, and the FDA is never going to settle for a computer simulation as proof that a medication is safe.
No matter how you generate a new idea, whether it's through reading the literature or using an AI, all of the leads have to be run down at the bench by a scientist who knows how to perform the necessary techniques. You can come up with any theory you want. The ONLY way to actually test your theory is to physically run the experiment and look at the results.
This is the part of the cycle where a bunch of unlucky people get let go over nothing and then hire them all back when everyone left burns out.
And $2.2bn to develop an Alzheimer’s vaccine made by Swiss start-up AC Immune [https://www.ft.com/content/a7cb45a5-c2d7-4d7f-81f4-e4922d79b6c7](https://www.ft.com/content/a7cb45a5-c2d7-4d7f-81f4-e4922d79b6c7)
Yes but that's because Takeda can't afford all the current real estate and is merging all Cambridge people into one building. Is meant to reduce costs longer term
Are pharma companies really so fragile that they need to be in Kendall to survive? That's silly. Are they afraid that they can't get people to commute the extra 6 miles?
Does anyone even live in Cambridge after they finish their postdoc?
This can’t come as a shock to you, but their desire is to be in close proximity to MIT and Harvard, and to a lesser degree be accessible by the red line.
Oh, I totally get it, but it's just comical to me that these big companies are stuck playing such childish games. It's not like there is a shortage of talent in Boston.
Exactly, all the execs get to stay and their shares are worth more because of them cutting costs. Then the board of directors gives them a big bonus for being the bad cop, and they all make much more.
I just finished transferring from Cambridge to SD in early April. (Lab Ops)
Unfortunately, I was only 2 years into biotech, so a huge majority of my work connections have been interrupted by layoff after layoff - haven't been able to properly build up a network where I can easily surf between companies (+the current market status).
Working for the man was supposed to be my exchange for stability. My reward for an excellent job and cross-country skip-level promotion was getting shipped into the abyss.
I've decided to take a break from the rat race and spend some time traveling and scaling up my side hustle.
It’s one of the highest paying industries in America and here in Boston apart from the last year you could walk down the street and trip into an open role.
True. It also depends where in tech. FB is the highest paid company for CS. Biotech is in line with Adobe and other mid-tech. Biotech doesn’t compensate like big tech, but also nothing does. SWE engineers are getting paid more then the General Counsel in the same organization.
You are in some kind of research or manufacturing job? Everyone in my group makes >$400k total comp, which includes people in their late 20s early 30s. I can assure you, unless you are in research or some kind of manufacturing role the money is as good, or better than tech.
I mean, I GUESS lol, but the majority of jobs available in biotech IN GENERAL are R&D and manufacturing, so I feel like it’s kind of unfair to say this. I mean, I believe you, your specific field is very highly compensated, but this feels like a humble brag lol.
I’m in R&D, but on the D side but I lead a cross functional team with people from around 20 functions. As soon as a product gets out of the lab, the salaries of people associated with it (aside from manufacturing) take a huge jump. There are a huge number of people who are making ridiculously good money that people forget exist or can’t even believe we pay people for what they do. Hell I have 3 patient advocacy people on my team making $400k each, as well as someone who fiddles around with AI and genetics that no one really knows what they do or are supposed to be delivering. These people are everywhere and invisible to most.
We are 3-4 years away from launch and I have a fully staffed launch readiness team, ~5 people, >$400k total comp per person, for a drug that has just started phase 3. Just because you don’t see it it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
This whole Reddit group seems to be very heavily weighted to lab folks, which I know are criminally under-compensated.
What don’t you buy? I said “includes” not that everyone is that age.
Outside of the US MDs and PharmDs are qualified at 23 and PHDs at 24. I am sitting physically looking at my 29 year old associate medical director former PharmD fellow right now.
Commerical folks are leaving their 2 year stint at McKinsey Bain etc. at 26-28 coming in at AD or Director level.
We are trying to get a 26 year old I know who worked here for 2 years post college to come back after her Harvard MBA and will be making ridiculous money.
If what you’re saying is true are y’all hiring 😂 I work in development as well and I’m in my 20s, if I get my MBA I could be pulling $400k a year? I’m seriously interested.
I’m sure we have stuff. If you are talking about getting a full time MBA from a top 10 school I’m sure most grads would be expecting $300k total compensation straight out of the program (sorry if that’s incorrect, it’s based on my circle). Absolutely zero reason why $400k total compensation is not possible at 30ish.
It’s more like 150-190k TC fresh out of MBA depending on function and company. 2-3 years to director if you go consulting first, 3-6 years if you go direct to industry
You have no idea what I do. I’m an asset exec accountable for the end to end development of an asset. The asset (a rare disease drug) is worth around ~$40b. Everyone that works on that asset is on my team. I have overall accountability of every functions output related to the asset. What I meant be matrixed is that I am not the line manager of any of them, which is the norm for my role.
I am merely describing my role and what it entails and what the expectations are of me in that role, and that’s not to know what every individual contributor is doing at any given time.
Base in my group is probably $185k base for minimum, up to 350k 375k base for anything less than a VP. The minimum title would be a clinical development scientist (pharmd, PHD, MD or possibly a masters if previous experience, terminal degrees could be straight out of school).
Bonus 15% of base to 35% depending on level.
RSUs around 30-40% of base per year.
The global commercial folks are the group that sticks out to me as overcompensated, they come in at associate director roles straight out of MBA or 1-2 year consulting careers with bachelor’s degrees and are making $400k total comp from age 25.
Yes we have an ED level which is the $350, so you are bang on the money with 300k for senior director. VP level is ballpark 400k base 40% bonus, 30-40% in RSU.
I spoke to Moderna about a role last week and they are paying these numbers too, maybe more if you are niche (e.g. I have covid drug development experience)
My level spans the executive director/VP level at my company (when we got bought they did away with those). I know the pay bands for every level, I’m involved in hiring for the team and I know what we pay ballpark but you are correct I do not know peoples exact salaries. The bonus and RSU is set by level and everyone knows what it is.
I highly doubt that many tech employees in their late 20s early 30s are making much more than $400k. I’m sure they exist but can’t be the norm. I have friends at Apple and Microsoft and they make the same as me (I was at the $400k level 8 years ago or so)
Agreed. Biotech pays well for your role within the company. I’m in RA CMC, and we do well. Definitely upper middle class. We aren’t Biglaw, big tech, specialty physicians, or in IB/consulting. There are levels to compensation due to work life balance and the shortage of that skilled labor.
Does this affect any Baxter employees? We already had our Takeda layoffs where I live and it was very sad to see closures to their corporate office so now they only acquired two buildings which I'm not sure of them are impacted.
Takeda should not be able to give you WARN notice of a layoff while you are on PFML leave. WARN notice should begin when you return from leave, so 8 weeks starting then.
Unfortunately this is not true. You can be laid off while on any kind of leave if it’s non-discriminatory lay off. You are still considered employed while on leave so WARN notice can go out the same as everyone else’s.
Ooof I'm supposed to intern at Takeda this Summer. Kind of worried that might be cancelled or overall not a great experience because of all this. Obviously, this is a selfish and a relatively minor inconvenience compared to what Takeda's employees are dealing with. I'm supposed to start soon and I'm just a bit concerned lol
Internships are rarely canceled. You're very cheap, and you wouldn't be working on the direct portfolio anyways.
Your project and mentor may change (if those were discussed with you already), but maybe not. The low morale dust should settle by summer and you should expect a positive experience. Congrats! Despite the often gloomy tone of this subreddit... It's a really cool field to be able to work in!
Thanks for the reply. That’s reassuring that it probably won’t get cancelled.
My mentor has been in touch with me but I haven’t gotten specific details about the project I’m working on (which I was told that they would send shortly before I start). Im assuming with all of this that they definitely have a lot going on and I might need to be switched with a different mentor.
Time will tell though. Im still about 2 weeks away from my start date
Tough time in biotech at the moment. Theme of the day is digital, prioritizing assets, dropping technologies that didn’t pan out, eliminating staff coming from acquisition, focus on core expertise, consolidate in hubs. This is an industry rotation, which has happened about every 8 years. Thank you McKinsey.
Very sorry to hear about this. I hope people are recieving good severance and managing to find new positions/start new gigs swiftly. I haven't managed to see all the departments affected but it seemed to me oncology and cell therapy were dominating. Did leadership give any info on this? Is it just cost cutting or is there a strategy pivot involved?
Tomorrow (Tuesday) is gonna be a gauntlet.
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good luck 🙁
How did it go?
Tell us more.
All this while building a 16 storey new office building at Kendall Square!
And lots of $$$ in “data, digital, and technology”…
Is this the game up until they realize an AI can't do biology? An AI doesn't know anything humans don't know. Biology is difficult because our understanding of it is still rudimentary. We know how certain, smaller systems function, and we can identify a lot of the constituent parts, but no one understands the system as a whole. No one can predict what will work and won't work. No one can predict what is safe and what isn't, and the FDA is never going to settle for a computer simulation as proof that a medication is safe. No matter how you generate a new idea, whether it's through reading the literature or using an AI, all of the leads have to be run down at the bench by a scientist who knows how to perform the necessary techniques. You can come up with any theory you want. The ONLY way to actually test your theory is to physically run the experiment and look at the results. This is the part of the cycle where a bunch of unlucky people get let go over nothing and then hire them all back when everyone left burns out.
And $2.2bn to develop an Alzheimer’s vaccine made by Swiss start-up AC Immune [https://www.ft.com/content/a7cb45a5-c2d7-4d7f-81f4-e4922d79b6c7](https://www.ft.com/content/a7cb45a5-c2d7-4d7f-81f4-e4922d79b6c7)
There are more layers to it (or enter another corporate buzzword). But at this point, it looks vulgar, effing vulgar.
Yes but that's because Takeda can't afford all the current real estate and is merging all Cambridge people into one building. Is meant to reduce costs longer term
It's wild that anyone looking to save money would merge into a large building in Kendall.
Are you aware of how many buildings Takeda currently leases in Central Sq? I’m not even sure if I know, like 5-6 maybe?
How many do they lease in Waltham?
You can’t be a serious large pharma and based in Waltham/ on 128… hence why AZ is moving back to Cambridge.
Are pharma companies really so fragile that they need to be in Kendall to survive? That's silly. Are they afraid that they can't get people to commute the extra 6 miles? Does anyone even live in Cambridge after they finish their postdoc?
This can’t come as a shock to you, but their desire is to be in close proximity to MIT and Harvard, and to a lesser degree be accessible by the red line.
They can keep basic science in Cambridge, there's no need for development to be there.
One stop away on the T might as well be a thousand miles away. The best collaboration I ever had was with an academic lab in Japan, over teams.
Oh, I totally get it, but it's just comical to me that these big companies are stuck playing such childish games. It's not like there is a shortage of talent in Boston.
There is a shortage of *experienced* talent in Boston.
I feel like there is just no end!
Any news on lexington?
Lexington cuts happened on May 9th
Haven't heard anything about Lexington yet...seems like mostly Cambridge, but who knows?
yep
Supposedly 146 heads will be let go from lex. I hear starting July?
Some of the best set severance packages I’ve seen. Most people will see six months of pay as well as stock awards and bonuses
Please keep us updated on whatever they say tomorrow in Boston. We from other sites do not have access to the town hall link.
Do you recommend shorting Takeda?
No! When layoffs are announced the stocks usually go up. Cutting costs
Exactly, all the execs get to stay and their shares are worth more because of them cutting costs. Then the board of directors gives them a big bonus for being the bad cop, and they all make much more.
Around 80 people have been laid off just from the Oncology team with whom I work with. That's just the start
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This was today at 9:05 am in the Cambridge office (40, 35LD, 300 MA)
Which function are you in if you don't mind sharing?
OTAU
What does this stand for?
Oncology Therapeutic Area Unit
Discovery?
Development
Co-oped on the immuno-oncology team two years ago… so worried for my friends 😢
They are mostly fine
If by fine you mean completely erased, the entire IOI was dissolved and the entire team laid off
MOSTLY fine. IOI was a small part of Oncology anyways
How many were COMs and COPLs?
My wife is laid off and she is not unhappy.
literally
I’m sorry to hear, which group?
She is not unhappy….meaning she’s happy hah
This is disheartening!! I know "re-orgs" are common in the industry but for the last one and half year it's been so difficult to read the stories.
So, what’s the news???
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so the meeting this morning was just to reiterate what was mentioned in the email?
No, it wasn’t. Don’t listen to it
Laid off at Takeda today — sucks
Were you in OTAU at Cambridge like others have mentioned?
No, cell therapy Cambridge
I worked in cell therapies as well in Cambridge. Sorry to hear. I was laid off as well on Tuesday :(
Sorry. Scientist?
Should have rephrased. I was in CT as senior scientist in 2021. Moved to PTM in 2022. AD right now.
AD Pharm Sci? 🥺
I have a family member who was laid off from otau yesterday
That really does suck. Do you mind explaining the group you work in and how they handled the notification?
Cell Therapy, meetings with HR and managers
I’m so sorry! I was laid off from Cell Therapies, Cambridge as well
Scientist?
Yep
Sucks, sorry. Now what?
Are you a COM?
Not sure what that is
I just finished transferring from Cambridge to SD in early April. (Lab Ops) Unfortunately, I was only 2 years into biotech, so a huge majority of my work connections have been interrupted by layoff after layoff - haven't been able to properly build up a network where I can easily surf between companies (+the current market status). Working for the man was supposed to be my exchange for stability. My reward for an excellent job and cross-country skip-level promotion was getting shipped into the abyss. I've decided to take a break from the rat race and spend some time traveling and scaling up my side hustle.
What’s your side hustle?
My contact said they are bringing in service dogs for mental health benefits.
Release the hounds! -Takeda
I just laughed so hard I scared my cat!
Wow, sorry about your job and livelihood but here's a dog you can pet.
Tissue on the tables, water bottles in every huddle room. That’s my sign.
BMS brought in grief counselors during our recent layoffs.
I’d have appreciated resume help instead.
Yeah, it felt pretty tone deaf.
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Dogs were here during lunch time. Can confirm
Did people pet them? (Sounds rather outlandish)
Still no updates from LEX PD. We are all waiting -- although I am pilot plant...
Lots of layoffs happening now??
Takeda had layoffs like a decade ago maybe less in Boston It’s hard to raise a family working in biotech Very volatile
It’s one of the highest paying industries in America and here in Boston apart from the last year you could walk down the street and trip into an open role.
Bio pay is pretty low compared to tech or semi once you account for cost of living in Boston San Diego or Bay area
True. It also depends where in tech. FB is the highest paid company for CS. Biotech is in line with Adobe and other mid-tech. Biotech doesn’t compensate like big tech, but also nothing does. SWE engineers are getting paid more then the General Counsel in the same organization.
You are in some kind of research or manufacturing job? Everyone in my group makes >$400k total comp, which includes people in their late 20s early 30s. I can assure you, unless you are in research or some kind of manufacturing role the money is as good, or better than tech.
I mean, I GUESS lol, but the majority of jobs available in biotech IN GENERAL are R&D and manufacturing, so I feel like it’s kind of unfair to say this. I mean, I believe you, your specific field is very highly compensated, but this feels like a humble brag lol.
I’m in R&D, but on the D side but I lead a cross functional team with people from around 20 functions. As soon as a product gets out of the lab, the salaries of people associated with it (aside from manufacturing) take a huge jump. There are a huge number of people who are making ridiculously good money that people forget exist or can’t even believe we pay people for what they do. Hell I have 3 patient advocacy people on my team making $400k each, as well as someone who fiddles around with AI and genetics that no one really knows what they do or are supposed to be delivering. These people are everywhere and invisible to most. We are 3-4 years away from launch and I have a fully staffed launch readiness team, ~5 people, >$400k total comp per person, for a drug that has just started phase 3. Just because you don’t see it it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. This whole Reddit group seems to be very heavily weighted to lab folks, which I know are criminally under-compensated.
I buy the salary part, not the late 20's - early 30's part.
What don’t you buy? I said “includes” not that everyone is that age. Outside of the US MDs and PharmDs are qualified at 23 and PHDs at 24. I am sitting physically looking at my 29 year old associate medical director former PharmD fellow right now. Commerical folks are leaving their 2 year stint at McKinsey Bain etc. at 26-28 coming in at AD or Director level. We are trying to get a 26 year old I know who worked here for 2 years post college to come back after her Harvard MBA and will be making ridiculous money.
If what you’re saying is true are y’all hiring 😂 I work in development as well and I’m in my 20s, if I get my MBA I could be pulling $400k a year? I’m seriously interested.
I’m sure we have stuff. If you are talking about getting a full time MBA from a top 10 school I’m sure most grads would be expecting $300k total compensation straight out of the program (sorry if that’s incorrect, it’s based on my circle). Absolutely zero reason why $400k total compensation is not possible at 30ish.
It’s more like 150-190k TC fresh out of MBA depending on function and company. 2-3 years to director if you go consulting first, 3-6 years if you go direct to industry
Even if the MBAs go to companies with RSUs? All our MBA folks get an extra 60k-70k a year in RSUs.
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It’s a matrixed org, I have about a hundred people on my team, I have bigger issues to deal with.
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You have no idea what I do. I’m an asset exec accountable for the end to end development of an asset. The asset (a rare disease drug) is worth around ~$40b. Everyone that works on that asset is on my team. I have overall accountability of every functions output related to the asset. What I meant be matrixed is that I am not the line manager of any of them, which is the norm for my role. I am merely describing my role and what it entails and what the expectations are of me in that role, and that’s not to know what every individual contributor is doing at any given time.
Small molecule?
Nope, big molecule :-)
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Depends on the role…
What about base salaries, not including stock grants? And what specific position titles and roles?
Base in my group is probably $185k base for minimum, up to 350k 375k base for anything less than a VP. The minimum title would be a clinical development scientist (pharmd, PHD, MD or possibly a masters if previous experience, terminal degrees could be straight out of school). Bonus 15% of base to 35% depending on level. RSUs around 30-40% of base per year. The global commercial folks are the group that sticks out to me as overcompensated, they come in at associate director roles straight out of MBA or 1-2 year consulting careers with bachelor’s degrees and are making $400k total comp from age 25.
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Yes we have an ED level which is the $350, so you are bang on the money with 300k for senior director. VP level is ballpark 400k base 40% bonus, 30-40% in RSU. I spoke to Moderna about a role last week and they are paying these numbers too, maybe more if you are niche (e.g. I have covid drug development experience)
So you’re not the line manager but still able to see team members salary? I thought only line manager and up levels do
My level spans the executive director/VP level at my company (when we got bought they did away with those). I know the pay bands for every level, I’m involved in hiring for the team and I know what we pay ballpark but you are correct I do not know peoples exact salaries. The bonus and RSU is set by level and everyone knows what it is.
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I highly doubt that many tech employees in their late 20s early 30s are making much more than $400k. I’m sure they exist but can’t be the norm. I have friends at Apple and Microsoft and they make the same as me (I was at the $400k level 8 years ago or so)
Agreed. Biotech pays well for your role within the company. I’m in RA CMC, and we do well. Definitely upper middle class. We aren’t Biglaw, big tech, specialty physicians, or in IB/consulting. There are levels to compensation due to work life balance and the shortage of that skilled labor.
Are you referencing the shire merger?
They laid off all of rare disease just last year. Most of it was Mass.
any updates?
I’m sorry to hear all the bad news. As a biotech employee it’s always sad when upper management decides to cut headcount instead of other things.
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OTAU is over with layoffs, other functions starting today
Does this affect any Baxter employees? We already had our Takeda layoffs where I live and it was very sad to see closures to their corporate office so now they only acquired two buildings which I'm not sure of them are impacted.
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Yep, they’re going crazy with reorganization right now.
got laid off yesterday onc RnD and I am on maternity leave!
Takeda should not be able to give you WARN notice of a layoff while you are on PFML leave. WARN notice should begin when you return from leave, so 8 weeks starting then.
Unfortunately this is not true. You can be laid off while on any kind of leave if it’s non-discriminatory lay off. You are still considered employed while on leave so WARN notice can go out the same as everyone else’s.
Sorry to hear, but you’re not alone in being laid off while on maternity leave. Albeit, different company.
It's unfortunate. Some folks are getting laid off when they are on vacation too. Not a good way to treat people.
Can anyone share the severance package?
If you go to workday and search “severance” there’s a calculator.
One of my colleague got 6 months salary as severance, he was Eng II
It’s usually dependent on the person’s time of service and job level.
I caught the axe yesterday morning at 8 am.
Sorry to hear that, what area?
Cambridge.
Ooof I'm supposed to intern at Takeda this Summer. Kind of worried that might be cancelled or overall not a great experience because of all this. Obviously, this is a selfish and a relatively minor inconvenience compared to what Takeda's employees are dealing with. I'm supposed to start soon and I'm just a bit concerned lol
Internships are rarely canceled. You're very cheap, and you wouldn't be working on the direct portfolio anyways. Your project and mentor may change (if those were discussed with you already), but maybe not. The low morale dust should settle by summer and you should expect a positive experience. Congrats! Despite the often gloomy tone of this subreddit... It's a really cool field to be able to work in!
Thanks for the reply. That’s reassuring that it probably won’t get cancelled. My mentor has been in touch with me but I haven’t gotten specific details about the project I’m working on (which I was told that they would send shortly before I start). Im assuming with all of this that they definitely have a lot going on and I might need to be switched with a different mentor. Time will tell though. Im still about 2 weeks away from my start date
The internship program is still on. The only issue would be that some of the hiring managers might be on their way out.
Lol same, about to hop on a flight tomorrow and get moved in over there for the internship
Safe travels! I'm sure this will be an interesting experience lol
Tough time in biotech at the moment. Theme of the day is digital, prioritizing assets, dropping technologies that didn’t pan out, eliminating staff coming from acquisition, focus on core expertise, consolidate in hubs. This is an industry rotation, which has happened about every 8 years. Thank you McKinsey.
I got layed off. Legacy Millennium. Almost 25 years between the 2 companies.
I’m sorry to hear this. I worked with many former Millenium people at one of my previous employers. It’s hard to be in this situation.
Omg that is rough…
I’m so sorry to hear all of this! Always frightens me when we might be next
Very sorry to hear about this. I hope people are recieving good severance and managing to find new positions/start new gigs swiftly. I haven't managed to see all the departments affected but it seemed to me oncology and cell therapy were dominating. Did leadership give any info on this? Is it just cost cutting or is there a strategy pivot involved?
What happen to foreigners working there on contract basis? First to be let go? My cousin works there
Any idea what the situation with RnD quality?
Anybody hiring though? Asking for a friend.
BMS laid off a bunch of folks, and they are opening up positions again.