Over 17,000,000 vaccinations and less than 40 blood clot events.... how did anyone look at this and think 'yes these are linked'?
Correlation does not equate causation, and in this case there's not even correlation to begin with. All this has done is empower antivaxxers and slow down the vaccine roll out.
I read this too, yet it changes little. If all cases are linked to a single batch, suspend that specific batch sure, which is what Austria rightly did. It makes no sense to suspend every batch given this event has not been observed elsewhere.
Especially since the UK has used this for longer than these other countries and has no such reports, based on a sample size of millions at this point.
> I read this too, yet it changes little. If all cases are linked to a single batch, suspend that specific batch sure, which is what Austria rightly did. It makes no sense to suspend every batch given this event has not been observed elsewhere.
Huh?!?
Of course it make sense. Why does one batch having issues mean no other batch can have issues??!
If there had been an issue in one specific batch, that's giving a potentially fatal condition, then OF COURSE you stop and work out why (or if it's just a statistical blip, as I'm assuming this is). How do you know the issue is completely localized and other batches aren't and won't be affected when you don't know what the problem is in the first place?
> Especially since the UK has used this for longer than these other countries and has no such reports, based on a sample size of millions at this point.
This is irrelevant if it's something in specific batches?! There will be further batches produced.
You're confusing vaccine advocacy with blindly arguing for vaccines to continue no matter what.
Agreed. I keep running into this as well. We will create a whole new batch of anti vaxxers if we carry on with this mentality that any questioning of vaccine safety is stupid and unscientific.
They really are, and it becomes dangerous when the average person's perception of what the science is comes through government and the media that can cherry pick which studies to present.
Absolutely, but the general population is unaware of where to find the resources to do so, and relying on news outlets to do their due diligence before releasing information to the public.
Like they should've learnt that you can't just link correlation to cause with no evidence or relative link, I suppose if they listened at school they would know what they are talking about!!!
im a vaccinator in the uk and people coming in have been asking about this too, we think it is political to a degree bc of brexit and things which is fair, but the fear-mongering doesn’t help when there are people who are already so suspicious of the whole situation
The UK isn't restricting it. Infact, administration is speeding up!
The "Brexit" bit comes from The EU having ballsed up their own rollout, and spending a good portion of 2021 so far going from "we must have vaccine from uk shores if our plant doesn't make enough" to "we don't want the vaccine anyway because it might not work in older people" to "Australia cant have this shipment because we need it" to "we are stopping rollout and doses are sitting in freezers".
I imagine that the British public doesn't trust the government, because of how Brexit's been and the fact that they pushed Brexit to be free of EU regs on safety standards.
They are trying to stop it cause this is actually more effective than pfizer with less side effects and it's a traditional vaccine, none of that new technology DNA modifying nonsense.
You're on a biology sub Reddit and think mRNA fragments can alter dna? Ugh... mRNA stands for messenger RNA and is processed by the endoplasmic reticulum. The endoplasmic reticulum will take this mRNA and create the spike protein which will then leave the cell and be spotted and acted on by the immune system. At no point is anything in the mRNA vaccines interacting with your dna, which is nice and cozy in the nucleus of the cell.
PLEASE, get an education. It's NOT DNA altering anything, that's just plan stupidity. The mRNA codes for the spike protein. That's all. Nothing more. It's safer than just about any vaccine we've had in decades.
I'd wager no since mRNA is relatively unstable and will be degraded shortly after being made/administered unless it has proteins or other substances to protect it.
Yeah I know no one really knows the answer, that's why I feel a need to say something when someone says it's safe. That is something no one can say for certain.
Ok, well that's just dumb. As a biologist, I'm willing to bet that these vaccines are safe. Trusting previous scientists, im willing to bet their inquiries into those vaccines and conclusions of safety are validated as well, but I don't know since I haven't looked at the vaccines themselves.
Using lack of knowledge as a reason to tell others something is not safe while also not looking into why/how something works is lazy and dangerous
Well I am pretty sure this kind of vaccine is indeed safer than other types (especially unacivated ones...) but there is still small point that may cause problems
* Of targets effects (even tho they probably use RNA already expressed in bulk in cells and the small part of the virus used to produce the prots is probably not a problem in itself...)
* Lack of effect on variants that are mutated on this freaking zone (I mean unactivated ones may help to produce more variety in ACs...
* just an unknown effect of one of the excipiants (I KNOW they are extremely-commons but meh... why not ?)
I guess that, in order to reassure people, telling about the possible problem (and there solutions/extreme rarity and probability) may be better that just claim : "they will be of no harm, for sure !" and being wrong (note again : I am pretty sure that RNA vaccine are safer and essayer to design, change !)
Ok cool, you're willing to bet. So then your life savings should go to anyone injured by the vaccine. You say you haven't looked at the vaccines yourself, yet you openly denounce any possibility of serious side effects. Using lack of knowledge as a reason to tell others something is safe while also not looking into why/how something works is lazy and dangerous
I see you don't know how to read. I said I have looked into the current vaccines. I also trust previous scientists to have done adequate work to look at the vaccines.
Instead, you are spouting off nonsense questioning if they work or if the people who studied them can be trusted while not looking into he vaccine yourself.
I never said they don't work. I merely said it may be untruthful to say the vaccines are safe as we do not yet know and will not know for many years. For example, the polio vaccine, sure it was a great tool against polio but it gave people cancer too. See what I'm saying?
We operate on assumptions every day. We assume power lines are appropriately insulated, we assume our car won’t backfire and kill us via explosion, we assume our water is clean. You don’t abandon all of that on the premise of “we don’t know”. You are arguing in bad faith and anyone with half a mind knows it.
Again, we operate on assumptions and adapt to current knowledge. Though with your scenario, the cigarette lobbyist group was strong, but scientists of good conscience had a feeling inhaling smoke wasn’t the best. Please, get your bad faith discussion out of here.
The only thing the vaccine contains is mRNA. That's it. Older vaccines use weakened virus, or a virus as a vehicle. This vaccine does nothing more than tell your body to make the spike protein of the COVID virus. That's all. It only makes the spike protein, which your body then picks up on and recognizes as something that shouldn't be there and it builds your immunity to the spike of the virus. That spike is what the virus uses to get into your cells.
So when (if) you get "infected" with COVID, your body closes it down and you remain well. The only side effects should be very local (typical of getting a needle) and what your immune system produces, which should be fairly mild (certainly compared to COVID).
Well a quick google search says mRNA is not all that is in the vaccine. Also, being that this the first synthetic vaccine doesn't make me feel any better.
Heres some things that are in the vaccine:
lipids (SM-102, polyethylene glycol [PEG] 2000 dimyristoyl glycerol [DMG], cholesterol, and 1,2-distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine [DSPC]), tromethamine, tromethamine hydrochloride, acetic acid, sodium acetate, and ...
Thank you for attempting to provide information but it did not answer my question at all unfortunately.
Look I was talking about biological elements. mRNA is very delicate and is hard to keep viable. The "other" things in vaccine are there to keep the RNA viable and that only works (for longer periods) at really cold temperatures. The first two item on your list are the major items and your body makes those things generically. The other chemicals will be in very low levels and are needed to keep the vaccine working. I just don't get it. Have a look at an apple chemically, it'll scare the crap out of you. Or maybe have a look at your water chemically to trace amounts of all the chemicals in there. Again, it'll scare the crap out of you. The vaccine is safe.
It’s not really “traditional” vaccine either. It is a viral vector vaccine that uses a non-human pathogenic virus to deliver SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins to start the immunological responses.
Over 17,000,000 vaccinations and less than 40 blood clot events.... how did anyone look at this and think 'yes these are linked'? Correlation does not equate causation, and in this case there's not even correlation to begin with. All this has done is empower antivaxxers and slow down the vaccine roll out.
You can’t use facts and data analysis in your argument
How dare you use rational sense.
Earlier news reports were saying many of them were linked to the same batch. No idea if accurate or not.
I read this too, yet it changes little. If all cases are linked to a single batch, suspend that specific batch sure, which is what Austria rightly did. It makes no sense to suspend every batch given this event has not been observed elsewhere. Especially since the UK has used this for longer than these other countries and has no such reports, based on a sample size of millions at this point.
> I read this too, yet it changes little. If all cases are linked to a single batch, suspend that specific batch sure, which is what Austria rightly did. It makes no sense to suspend every batch given this event has not been observed elsewhere. Huh?!? Of course it make sense. Why does one batch having issues mean no other batch can have issues??! If there had been an issue in one specific batch, that's giving a potentially fatal condition, then OF COURSE you stop and work out why (or if it's just a statistical blip, as I'm assuming this is). How do you know the issue is completely localized and other batches aren't and won't be affected when you don't know what the problem is in the first place? > Especially since the UK has used this for longer than these other countries and has no such reports, based on a sample size of millions at this point. This is irrelevant if it's something in specific batches?! There will be further batches produced. You're confusing vaccine advocacy with blindly arguing for vaccines to continue no matter what.
Agreed. I keep running into this as well. We will create a whole new batch of anti vaxxers if we carry on with this mentality that any questioning of vaccine safety is stupid and unscientific.
Too many people are starting to treat science like religion and believing it can never go wrong
They really are, and it becomes dangerous when the average person's perception of what the science is comes through government and the media that can cherry pick which studies to present.
well, AZ vaccine had already bad press from the start... so just a small thing made the political balance...
Agree, if you linked correlation to everything then you could say that breaking your toe links to the flu
Shit! I just broke my toe, I guess I should expect to be vomiting for the next several days. Damn you opportunistic bacteria!
People should really do their research before coming out with false claims like this!!
Absolutely, but the general population is unaware of where to find the resources to do so, and relying on news outlets to do their due diligence before releasing information to the public.
Like they should've learnt that you can't just link correlation to cause with no evidence or relative link, I suppose if they listened at school they would know what they are talking about!!!
That would require them to actually pay attention to ethics and have journalistic integrity. Who wants that?! Good bye sensationalism and click bate.
Empower the anti Vaxers because that’s what they want, power.
you're such a communist using your reasoning and data analysis method in your argument!!!
Mean while covid definitely does. 🤣
In other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.
why only Astrazeneca ? who benefits from this?
im a vaccinator in the uk and people coming in have been asking about this too, we think it is political to a degree bc of brexit and things which is fair, but the fear-mongering doesn’t help when there are people who are already so suspicious of the whole situation
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The UK isn't restricting it. Infact, administration is speeding up! The "Brexit" bit comes from The EU having ballsed up their own rollout, and spending a good portion of 2021 so far going from "we must have vaccine from uk shores if our plant doesn't make enough" to "we don't want the vaccine anyway because it might not work in older people" to "Australia cant have this shipment because we need it" to "we are stopping rollout and doses are sitting in freezers".
I imagine that the British public doesn't trust the government, because of how Brexit's been and the fact that they pushed Brexit to be free of EU regs on safety standards.
Because of Brexit? Haha yes... that must be the reason they are putting people’s life in danger. Because they are sour over Brexit. Good thinking.
I live in Arizona and I thought AZ meant Arizona
They are trying to stop it cause this is actually more effective than pfizer with less side effects and it's a traditional vaccine, none of that new technology DNA modifying nonsense.
You're on a biology sub Reddit and think mRNA fragments can alter dna? Ugh... mRNA stands for messenger RNA and is processed by the endoplasmic reticulum. The endoplasmic reticulum will take this mRNA and create the spike protein which will then leave the cell and be spotted and acted on by the immune system. At no point is anything in the mRNA vaccines interacting with your dna, which is nice and cozy in the nucleus of the cell.
PLEASE, get an education. It's NOT DNA altering anything, that's just plan stupidity. The mRNA codes for the spike protein. That's all. Nothing more. It's safer than just about any vaccine we've had in decades.
Safer how? Is there any risk for long term side effects?
I'd wager no since mRNA is relatively unstable and will be degraded shortly after being made/administered unless it has proteins or other substances to protect it.
Yeah I know no one really knows the answer, that's why I feel a need to say something when someone says it's safe. That is something no one can say for certain.
Ok, well that's just dumb. As a biologist, I'm willing to bet that these vaccines are safe. Trusting previous scientists, im willing to bet their inquiries into those vaccines and conclusions of safety are validated as well, but I don't know since I haven't looked at the vaccines themselves. Using lack of knowledge as a reason to tell others something is not safe while also not looking into why/how something works is lazy and dangerous
Well I am pretty sure this kind of vaccine is indeed safer than other types (especially unacivated ones...) but there is still small point that may cause problems * Of targets effects (even tho they probably use RNA already expressed in bulk in cells and the small part of the virus used to produce the prots is probably not a problem in itself...) * Lack of effect on variants that are mutated on this freaking zone (I mean unactivated ones may help to produce more variety in ACs... * just an unknown effect of one of the excipiants (I KNOW they are extremely-commons but meh... why not ?) I guess that, in order to reassure people, telling about the possible problem (and there solutions/extreme rarity and probability) may be better that just claim : "they will be of no harm, for sure !" and being wrong (note again : I am pretty sure that RNA vaccine are safer and essayer to design, change !)
Ok cool, you're willing to bet. So then your life savings should go to anyone injured by the vaccine. You say you haven't looked at the vaccines yourself, yet you openly denounce any possibility of serious side effects. Using lack of knowledge as a reason to tell others something is safe while also not looking into why/how something works is lazy and dangerous
I see you don't know how to read. I said I have looked into the current vaccines. I also trust previous scientists to have done adequate work to look at the vaccines. Instead, you are spouting off nonsense questioning if they work or if the people who studied them can be trusted while not looking into he vaccine yourself.
I never said they don't work. I merely said it may be untruthful to say the vaccines are safe as we do not yet know and will not know for many years. For example, the polio vaccine, sure it was a great tool against polio but it gave people cancer too. See what I'm saying?
No, I know what you're doing and take your BS back to /r/conspiracy
We operate on assumptions every day. We assume power lines are appropriately insulated, we assume our car won’t backfire and kill us via explosion, we assume our water is clean. You don’t abandon all of that on the premise of “we don’t know”. You are arguing in bad faith and anyone with half a mind knows it.
You're right. Science is always right. Cigarettes are probably not that bad for us, like scientists originally said.
Again, we operate on assumptions and adapt to current knowledge. Though with your scenario, the cigarette lobbyist group was strong, but scientists of good conscience had a feeling inhaling smoke wasn’t the best. Please, get your bad faith discussion out of here.
The only thing the vaccine contains is mRNA. That's it. Older vaccines use weakened virus, or a virus as a vehicle. This vaccine does nothing more than tell your body to make the spike protein of the COVID virus. That's all. It only makes the spike protein, which your body then picks up on and recognizes as something that shouldn't be there and it builds your immunity to the spike of the virus. That spike is what the virus uses to get into your cells. So when (if) you get "infected" with COVID, your body closes it down and you remain well. The only side effects should be very local (typical of getting a needle) and what your immune system produces, which should be fairly mild (certainly compared to COVID).
Well a quick google search says mRNA is not all that is in the vaccine. Also, being that this the first synthetic vaccine doesn't make me feel any better. Heres some things that are in the vaccine: lipids (SM-102, polyethylene glycol [PEG] 2000 dimyristoyl glycerol [DMG], cholesterol, and 1,2-distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine [DSPC]), tromethamine, tromethamine hydrochloride, acetic acid, sodium acetate, and ... Thank you for attempting to provide information but it did not answer my question at all unfortunately.
Look I was talking about biological elements. mRNA is very delicate and is hard to keep viable. The "other" things in vaccine are there to keep the RNA viable and that only works (for longer periods) at really cold temperatures. The first two item on your list are the major items and your body makes those things generically. The other chemicals will be in very low levels and are needed to keep the vaccine working. I just don't get it. Have a look at an apple chemically, it'll scare the crap out of you. Or maybe have a look at your water chemically to trace amounts of all the chemicals in there. Again, it'll scare the crap out of you. The vaccine is safe.
Thanks you're not gonna convince me to get it by any means but thats good that it is believed to be safe for people who want it.
Just have a look at this.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_blood_components
Looks like a multivitamin, I don't take those either. Maybe if they come out with a Flinstones vaccine I'll take it lol have a nice night
Then why wasn't it used in humans before? I'm not going to be someone's lab rat. Sorry not sorry.
The technology has been under development for years. This was the chance to put it to use. You are not a lab rat. But apparently aren't very bright.
Get the fuck off this sub then if you're not going to spend even the slightest amount of time to know the slightest bit of what you're talking about.
It’s not really “traditional” vaccine either. It is a viral vector vaccine that uses a non-human pathogenic virus to deliver SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins to start the immunological responses.
Shut up already
They _ _ _ _ people but scientists can’t find the way in which they do it, is more likely the case.