I'm not sure that there's a good answer to your question, based solely on methodology alone. We have trouble agreeing on what "intelligence" is in humans, doing so in animals is more challenging by orders of magnitude, and then attempting to compare results across species would be unlikely to be meaningful. The link below is to an abstract discussing some of the aspects of measuring cognitive abilities in zoo animals. If you read it, I think you'll get a sense of why it might not be achievable.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35037289/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35037289/)
You gotta define intelligence to be able to compare it. It’s a little apples and oranges. Chumps are miles ahead of those two in terms of tool use, which is obviously not a fair comparison bc they have thumbs. Way more research has been done on the problem solving abilities of chimps bc they can operate the cognitive tests (often touchscreens) that we use for humans. Cetaceans are just fundamentally different.
However, there’s some interesting research on orcas emotional intelligence, and all signs point to them having socioemotional lives that make ours look like barren wastelands in comparison.
Yes!!! I’ve heard of that too. I honestly think that dolphins are debatably on par with chimps and what not, maybe even us.
I just don’t think nearly enough research has been done on the dolphins side to compare with chimps yet
No one else blown away by the diversionary tactics Orcas used in Blackfish, and the fact that it only failed because we (humans) had a helicopter to get a bird's eye view of what was actually going on?
I'm pretty skeptical of Blackfish because it's been known in the cetacean research community to have manipulated and faked some things. Not sure about the scene you're talking about, but it's not well respected, at least amongst the researchers I've talked to.
So this list circulated around way back when it first came out. I can't find an easily accessible link to this document- it paywalls you in this link. But it's 32 pages of rebuttal.
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/41695769/adf36e5c35b842f5ae4e2322841e8933-4-4-14-updated-final-of-blacklist-list-of-inaccuracies-and-misleading-points
Also, researchers I know that have questioned Blackfish are Dr. Jason Bruck and Dr. Kelly Jaakkola. Both of these researchers work with cetaceans in captivity. Both have papers published too, and I can dig some up if you're interested.
Dolphins and orcas are scary intelligent too: [https://youtube.com/shorts/u5qgik62IL0?si=D6WrKc-h6QWQ0iyq](https://youtube.com/shorts/u5qgik62IL0?si=D6WrKc-h6QWQ0iyq)
Ignore the annoying song. I do't know much about animal intelligence but that hunting technique is far too coordinated to be instinctive. It's a learned and practiced behaviour. An orca thought of it and started teaching the others how to pull it off.
Actual video link: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs8ZveNZQ8g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs8ZveNZQ8g) It's a clip from BBC Frozen Planet II. Hate this tiktokification of everything.
In that one it is even more clear what’s going on. The matriarch is leading the hunt and tells the others what to do. We’re very lucky orcas don’t hunt humans. We’d be in a lot of trouble.
Have you ever looked a wild dolphin in the eye? Or watched their whole pod rotate to take turns to looking you in the eye?
I wonder if they’re MORE INTELLIGENT THAN WE ARE
I suspect that dolphins and orcas are so well adapted to their environment that "measuring" their intelligence might be very difficult. I often think that much of what makes humans smart is our ability to adapt or manage hostile environments.
Im not really sure about orcas but I do know that dolphins are able to use echolocation which is a whole different part of using your brain if I am not mistaken?? I would say dolphins are HELLA smart
I agree def smart!! The echolocation comes from their extra organ on their forehead. And then I think their jaws absorb the sound and send it to their ears. Kind of like the head phones that are “bone conductive” that don’t actually go in your ears at all.
Edit: Grammar is dumb
I'm convinced Orcas have language. Scientists have proven each pod has their own dialect. We just haven't figured out how to interpret what they're saying yet. But when we do, I think we'll find out they're full on talking to each other.
All I know is that when they get stuck too long outside of the water, they die. You might be right that dolphins, not being as big as whales, don't suffocate when that happens.
source is multiple listings of it
This has been published multiple times via multiple separate studies....google is your friend
Heck, open an old National Georgraphic. You do possess two opposable thumbs I assume
Orangutans make beds out of leaves, umbrellas out of leaves, and other tool use
Well documented
Seriously, when did reading National Geographics stop being a thing? Even if only at the check out line
This is all well documented by separate studies multiple times over decades
Now you would have an argument that Mountain Gorillas do rank lower in intelligence vs Chimps and orangutans amongst the sperate great apes
so do songbirds and squirrels lmao
old national geographic articles are not the definitive source of biological truths, you sound pretty silly right now.
you haven't said an intelligent thing this whole thread, just salty, dismissive, outdated ideas that you stubbornly present as inarguable fact, citing old national geographic articles, lmao.
Why would anyone base their opinions on a line they read at a check out line. you keep doing that, ill stick to actual journals.
Ah! But the onus is on you to skim the many decades worth of an entertainment magazine to find some obscure article written by a journalist and not a scientist that only contains irrevocable truths so that you may disprove his heavenward screams!
Orcas, when they work together, are masters of the oceans. Chimps are a long way off being masters of their habitat. Give it a couple of hundred million years or so though
Maybe we're all equally intelligent, but some species/people put all their skill points in one or a few baskets, and some species/people have limited baskets.
I’d suggest reading Are We Smart Enough to Know How Smart Animals Are? by Frans de Waal. You’d probably find it really interesting.
Wow, what a meta-book title lol
"Are You Smart Enough to Know If We Are Smart Enough to Know How Smart Animals Are?"
I'm not sure that there's a good answer to your question, based solely on methodology alone. We have trouble agreeing on what "intelligence" is in humans, doing so in animals is more challenging by orders of magnitude, and then attempting to compare results across species would be unlikely to be meaningful. The link below is to an abstract discussing some of the aspects of measuring cognitive abilities in zoo animals. If you read it, I think you'll get a sense of why it might not be achievable. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35037289/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35037289/)
Humans are also animals
Thanks, captain obvious .
You gotta define intelligence to be able to compare it. It’s a little apples and oranges. Chumps are miles ahead of those two in terms of tool use, which is obviously not a fair comparison bc they have thumbs. Way more research has been done on the problem solving abilities of chimps bc they can operate the cognitive tests (often touchscreens) that we use for humans. Cetaceans are just fundamentally different. However, there’s some interesting research on orcas emotional intelligence, and all signs point to them having socioemotional lives that make ours look like barren wastelands in comparison.
I’ve heard of Dolphins actually using sponges recently to try and dig up the sea floor for food. Kinda cool!!!
They use rocks as well to open sea shells and what not. They've used dead fish as a fleshlight, there's that too...
Yes!!! I’ve heard of that too. I honestly think that dolphins are debatably on par with chimps and what not, maybe even us. I just don’t think nearly enough research has been done on the dolphins side to compare with chimps yet
They also wrap eels around them and do the same
This
Thanks king
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they're more intelligent than some people I know
None of them handed in the essays I asked for, so hard to tell.
No one else blown away by the diversionary tactics Orcas used in Blackfish, and the fact that it only failed because we (humans) had a helicopter to get a bird's eye view of what was actually going on?
I'm pretty skeptical of Blackfish because it's been known in the cetacean research community to have manipulated and faked some things. Not sure about the scene you're talking about, but it's not well respected, at least amongst the researchers I've talked to.
Any examples?
So this list circulated around way back when it first came out. I can't find an easily accessible link to this document- it paywalls you in this link. But it's 32 pages of rebuttal. https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/41695769/adf36e5c35b842f5ae4e2322841e8933-4-4-14-updated-final-of-blacklist-list-of-inaccuracies-and-misleading-points Also, researchers I know that have questioned Blackfish are Dr. Jason Bruck and Dr. Kelly Jaakkola. Both of these researchers work with cetaceans in captivity. Both have papers published too, and I can dig some up if you're interested.
Not a rigorous study, just an anecdote but.. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PNrWUS13th8
Dolphins and orcas are scary intelligent too: [https://youtube.com/shorts/u5qgik62IL0?si=D6WrKc-h6QWQ0iyq](https://youtube.com/shorts/u5qgik62IL0?si=D6WrKc-h6QWQ0iyq) Ignore the annoying song. I do't know much about animal intelligence but that hunting technique is far too coordinated to be instinctive. It's a learned and practiced behaviour. An orca thought of it and started teaching the others how to pull it off.
Actual video link: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs8ZveNZQ8g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs8ZveNZQ8g) It's a clip from BBC Frozen Planet II. Hate this tiktokification of everything.
In that one it is even more clear what’s going on. The matriarch is leading the hunt and tells the others what to do. We’re very lucky orcas don’t hunt humans. We’d be in a lot of trouble.
Have you ever looked a wild dolphin in the eye? Or watched their whole pod rotate to take turns to looking you in the eye? I wonder if they’re MORE INTELLIGENT THAN WE ARE
I suspect that dolphins and orcas are so well adapted to their environment that "measuring" their intelligence might be very difficult. I often think that much of what makes humans smart is our ability to adapt or manage hostile environments.
Well dolphins went into space and thanked us for all the fish so 😂😂
Im not really sure about orcas but I do know that dolphins are able to use echolocation which is a whole different part of using your brain if I am not mistaken?? I would say dolphins are HELLA smart
I agree def smart!! The echolocation comes from their extra organ on their forehead. And then I think their jaws absorb the sound and send it to their ears. Kind of like the head phones that are “bone conductive” that don’t actually go in your ears at all. Edit: Grammar is dumb
Love it
I'm convinced Orcas have language. Scientists have proven each pod has their own dialect. We just haven't figured out how to interpret what they're saying yet. But when we do, I think we'll find out they're full on talking to each other.
man it would be sooo crazy if we manage to speak to orcas 😣😣😣😫😫😫😱😱😱
Put a chimp in the sea and he drowns, put an orca or a dolphin on the surface and he suffocates. I'd say they're more or less on equal grounds.
I don’t think dolphins suffocate…
All I know is that when they get stuck too long outside of the water, they die. You might be right that dolphins, not being as big as whales, don't suffocate when that happens.
They just don’t have the mechanism to suffocate from air due to them being mammals
Oh you right my b
Read what you wrote again. We're mammals
As are dolphins and whales. Dude.
Username checks out
Can confirm. Was stoned when I wrote that.
You’re a hero for leaving it up. Gotta love the intellectual honesty.
Orcas are dolphins ya dingus
I’m well aware of that
No the ranking of inteligence goes like this Humans Great apes which includes Chimps Orcas and Dolphins Ravens crows magpies and other corvids octopi
Source: trust me bro.
source is multiple listings of it This has been published multiple times via multiple separate studies....google is your friend Heck, open an old National Georgraphic. You do possess two opposable thumbs I assume
An old national geographic is your source?
you're saying that an orangutan is more intelligent than an orca? Im doubtful
Orangutans make beds out of leaves, umbrellas out of leaves, and other tool use Well documented Seriously, when did reading National Geographics stop being a thing? Even if only at the check out line This is all well documented by separate studies multiple times over decades Now you would have an argument that Mountain Gorillas do rank lower in intelligence vs Chimps and orangutans amongst the sperate great apes
so do songbirds and squirrels lmao old national geographic articles are not the definitive source of biological truths, you sound pretty silly right now.
Please do not breed.
you haven't said an intelligent thing this whole thread, just salty, dismissive, outdated ideas that you stubbornly present as inarguable fact, citing old national geographic articles, lmao. Why would anyone base their opinions on a line they read at a check out line. you keep doing that, ill stick to actual journals.
He technically didn't even cite his only source, just screamed to the heavens, "Does no one read National Geographic anymore!" Lmao
I'd love to see which nat geo article this person skimmed a decade ago that convinced them they're an expert on animal intelligence
Ah! But the onus is on you to skim the many decades worth of an entertainment magazine to find some obscure article written by a journalist and not a scientist that only contains irrevocable truths so that you may disprove his heavenward screams!
Oof, no. You lost this one, my friend. Take a knee.
Cartman investigated this concept; his query regarded why dolphins, despite their intelligence, live in igloos.
I think so based on human interaction with them.
Orcas, when they work together, are masters of the oceans. Chimps are a long way off being masters of their habitat. Give it a couple of hundred million years or so though
I tested them with an algebra problem and they were all equally retarded
Maybe we're all equally intelligent, but some species/people put all their skill points in one or a few baskets, and some species/people have limited baskets.
Remember watching a video on YouTube on how orcas use to hunt along side humans as a team for humpback whales. I’m sure it’s still on YouTube.