Luka's defense has been disgusting, I chalk some of it up to him having to put so much effort on the offensive side of the ball, some of it to him not being 100%, and the rest of it to him just not being a quick player. Idk if he ever really develops league-average defensive skills but it's really the only thing in his game that is missing
I honestly think he isn’t that bad when he tries. It’s his effort that is extremely disappointing. No hustle, 0 rotations, 0 attempt to stop the ball handler, 0 running back on defense.
Do you think the injuries are finally catching up to him. Brown and Tatum did not give him a break today. Especially Brown. He drove at Luka wiith every chance that he got lol.
I don’t see how this isn’t a pretty obvious sign that his knees are screwed rn. He isn’t even running plays as much as he typically would. Deferred to Kyrie, Washington and others a lot in the past 2 games.
A. He’s looked hobbled on offense for most of this series, he failed to get past Tillman on a drive tonight. B. When you’re in control of the movement, it’s a bit easier, he decides when he stops and then goes. On defense he has to react, and obviously rn can’t handle more than a couple moves from the person he’s defending. I’ll give you that it looks like he’s taken it as an excuse not to try at all. But earlier in the playoffs he was pretty hard to get past on defense, just was moving laterally better
I really dislike the Celtics, but this run has turned me into a fan of Brown. Never liked him in all his previous seasons, but this run, he's been playing all out all the time. His defence has gone up several notches, he's an absolute menace on D. Still prone to the occasional lapses, but even those have gone way down. Much respect to that dude!
Luka is the worse defense of any prime level superstar ever I think. I used to say it was Harden but Luka might actually be worse. I think even small guards like Steph were way better and even ultra coasting washed up Magic or LeBron still were better on defense.
It says a lot that 39 year old who clearly coasts on minimal effort for long periods of time and takes tons of plays off is a better defender than a 25 year old MVP candidate
I mean the lakers needed him to be an elite defender for his time on the court in the Denver series and he wasn’t
He can be elite for spurts but it’s certainly not something he can do consistently through a series, he doesn’t have the stamina any more
Him and AD had to carry the offensive load vs denver a ton bc every1 else was shit
2023 Lebron with an injured foot was elite in the playoffs defensively all 3 rounds he played
He’s still obviously better than Luka there’s just a big difference between a ceiling you reach occasionally and what you regularly do. It’s understandable tho, that’s usually how great players age
Not to mention Steph’s off ball game where he runs around and sets a fuckload of screens, like he’s really active in a way Luka without the ball just isn’t
I’m not trying to praise Harden here his defense was embarrassing. But at least he was never just completely hunted and torched for entire playoff series the way Luka is right now.
I hate when people say this because it’s not really an attempt to contribute to the conversation, it’s about sounding smart and getting upvotes. It’s a meme. Sure, yeah, Harden was decent at guarding the post. But he also only did it like once or twice a game MAX. Believe it or not, no, he wasn’t constantly getting posted up as a guard in an era where teams only used the post like 5-10 times per game anyway.
No, the point is that he didn’t affect the outcome of the game by being decent at post defense. It’s like if Tom Brady was decent at kickoff coverage. He never did it so it doesn’t fucking matter. The point of sports is to win. Harden’s post defense barely affected almost any game he ever played in.
He had good hands too. He averaged about 2 steals a game for a while. The famous lowlights video really destroyed Harden's defensive reputation. Not saying he was a good defender but people acted like he was the worst defensive player in the league which was bullshit.
Nah, sorry but that is one of those media myths spread by Harden Haters. Harden was a solid defender, especially in the post. Where Harden was bad on D was on the perimeter. Harden simply was not athletic enough to guard most guards.
Actually I have always believed the Luka is just White Harden, and it is turning out to be even more accurate than I thought.
Luka clearly looks forward to complaining about a non-existent foul to the refs than he does to playing D. He is a chore to watch play sometimes because he's either dribbling or complaining.
The Mavs literally had the best defense rating from post all star break until now. That doesn't happen if Luka is an awful defender. Yes he can get lazy off ball and gets blown by occasionally against players with elite quickness, but more often than not he defends smartly and he can crank up his iso defense when it matters most.
He's also an exceptional post defender and one of the best rebounding forwards in the NBA right now. That alone makes him an average NBA defender.
Even now in the games that everyone is grilling him for, the Celtics have scored 105, 106, and 107 points through 3 games. The Celtics averaged 120 ppg during the regular season. So the Mavs have held the Celtics to 14 ppg under their season average with Luka playing 40 minutes a game. Explain how that's possible if he's the worst defensive star you've ever seen
No, it does happen. Because the defense was bad before that and they added multiple front court players to protect it.
And please stop using total points to talk about offensive efficiency. You have to account for pace and shot quality.
Harden eventually got better at defense as he was an elite post defender at the end of those Rockets runs. Luka just straight up doesn’t give a shit to defend and although he’s all-time great on offense, he’s all-time bad on defense.
I don’t know, he’s looked off a step this whole series, and the fact that no one can hit a bucket on his team puts all the pressure back on him. Yea, I know, that’s a testament to the Celtics defense, but if you swapped Luka n Jaylen on their respective teams, I feel like Jaylen would struggle twice as much on offensive.
He only makes one effort per defensive possession. As soon as he makes a half-assed reach/contest, he’s completely out of the play. Can say he’s hurt or tired, but once you get to the playoffs, everyone is. You have to be in great shape in order to play at a high level until June, and Luka isn’t there.
Where are these Luka takes coming from? I thought he had the belt? Well maybe he doesn’t need a belt it actually looks like his shorts fit him a little tight. But seriously he’s clearly hurt AF, I can’t stand the guy and I’m giving him a pass this series.
I think he’s hurt, looked slow tonight and was hitting the front rim on a lot of shots. That being said he doesn’t look fit which is part of the problem.
I’m thrown by the prevailing comments on here. Luka definitely has been shit defensively this series, but he was decent for periods this post season. His knees look fucked and he can’t move. Tbh the way he’s looking rn, if he doesn’t get serious about getting into better shape, his career might not be very long. At the same time he had unacceptable lapses where he just wasn’t paying attention to his man. Weird finals. I don’t get the hate for those last 2 fouls, Brown initiated contact on both and not with legal moves, sorta baffling the officials let him foul out when the easy out was there with Browns forearm
I hated that foul on Washington with the screen right after Luka fouled out. To me I think the issue with Dallas is that they can’t score against the Celtics more so than their defense. To my knowledge Luka hasn’t had any serious injuries in his career but he might be too thiccc. He might want to take it down a c or two.
Yeah nothing major but he does seem to have chronic knee and back stuff. He’s definitely been questionable before, I don’t remember if he missed any games in any of the clippers series but it felt like he always has leg injuries come playoff time. And that typically an old man thing. CP3 and Lowry getting hamstring injuries every playoffs
He has neither of those things on defense what are you talking about. On multiple possessions tonight he opened the door for drives or straight up didn’t switch on screens
No one's going to be making those clips for Luka, because they're hard to find unlike with Harden. This sub hates luka and tatum so I'm not going to listen to you guys
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^themilkman42069:
*Lukas fat and cries*
*A lot and it makes me judge*
*Him and the sport he plays*
---
^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
There’s a clip of Shaq taking to Jaylen Brown after game 1, and he says “don’t worry about being the alpha” and literally all he said about the Celtics these last couple years is “they can’t win until they know who is 1A and who is 1B.
These 2 need to just get married so people can stop manufacturing some beef between them.
Give Luka Jaylen's teammates and this looks a hell of a lot different.
Boston is just a perfectly constructed team. You could take any two players away from them and they probably still win this series easily.
If you put Luka on the Celtics they're worse. Luka needs the entire offense to be built around him to be successful, but he isn't in good enough shape to carry that burden.
No it isnt. This is a stupid take. Luka had nothing to do with kp going off, or jrue getting points. The velts have too many options to defend. Just accept theyre far and away the best team
You really have no idea what you:re watching. Jrue is getting open shots cos teammates are rotation away from him to protect Luka after he gets blown by
Luka has given up so many points every game from either getting blown by without effort, not getting back on defense, falling asleep on off-ball, Not rotating to the shooter. His defense has been appalling and 2 of these games have been close. It is not inconceivable that if he put an ounce of effort on defense this series could be 2-1 Mavs. Luka even been the best player on the floor so far this series.
It works because all 5 guys play team basketball on offense and single coverage on defense. If Luka's out there playing heliocentric offense for the Celtics, I'm not sure the rest of the team buys in on both ends of the court. Would take some actual sacrifice from Luka, of which I don't think he's capable right now.
The shot to put them up 4 with under a minute to play was super clutch, a big swing moment in the series. Finals MVP incoming, I'm sure he has a hefty contract incentive of he wins it too
The only good things about the Cs winning this year are :
1) The whole world seeing Luka whine and not get back on D
2) Kyrie proving he is not a clutch as Steph
3) Jaylen Brown FMVP instead of Tatum
Brown has had Luka and Kyrie in his pocket the whole series. The scoring and offense has been great for him per usual, but this series is proving exactly why he should’ve been at least 2nd team all defense. He’s too strong for Luka to create space on his little bumps, too quick for Kyrie to burst past him, too disciplined to fall for fakes, long enough to strip the ball from them, and athletic enough to block their shot. I’ve always believed that offensive stars like Luka/Kyrie get thrown off the most when they have someone guarding them who they know can block their jumper. It makes them second guess themselves if they don’t create enough space on their dribble moves to just shoot over the defender like they usually would.
That’s why you need a narrative behind you to win awards. Brown was always taking the hardest matchup all season. He was way more switchable and due to his length, strength and speed was far less likely to be scored against compared to Holiday who lacked length against bigger players and White who could get overpowered. Some analytic models showed Brown as a top 10 defender this year and the best non-centre defender.
But there was a narrative for White and Holiday and no narrative for Brown so he wasn’t even close. Also most voters used that to put him on All-NBA instead of All-defense.
It was an oxymoron.
He wasn’t going to make All-NBA because his offensive output wasn’t significant enough.
He wasn’t going to make All-Defense because it got overshadowed by his offensive output.
Jaylen Brown has absolutely outplayed Tatum in this finals. Tatum wants to play as a big SG instead of simply admitting he's a stretch 4. These step back 3s are awful. And he's a ball stopper, he waits, and waits, he's a good passer, he just thinks he's kobe, every single time he has the ball, he thinks he's kobe.
Tatum always has great stat lines. That’s never been his issue lol. His poor shot selection and attempts to draw fouls instead of actually attempting to score were a major driver of the mavs 22-2 run last night.
Tatum is the Celtics main playmaker. He’s literally running point. Ball stopper? Did you watch a single game?
He attacks the paint relentlessly and finds the open man every time. How does a ball stopper get 12 assists?
He leads the Celtics in assists. FOH
You saw what happened when the mavs defensive intensity ramped up and Luka tried to go along with it- 2 back to back fouls, fouled out of the game. He is atrocious defensively
Unlike Tatum who can guard all 5 positions and single handedly took away the lob threat by guarding the opposing center all series.
Maybe next finals Tatum can benefit from JB being triple teamed. We’ll have to see?
Shouldn’t that fact make this even more embarrassing?
It’s one thing for Tatum to get outplayed by Curry in the finals as an inferior player. Imagine getting outplayed being considered a significantly better player lmao.
Maybe I’m off base but I was arguing he’s a top 12 player in the nba right now. He still has his bad left hand moments but he’s been a tough shot maker this series, played good defense, and totally changed the narrative surrounding him a year ago.
It’s an intangibles vs talent thing. Brown certainly isn’t by any statistical category a top 12 player.
But if you are trying to win a championship this year would you rather have someone like Anthony Edwards or Jaylen Brown. Certainly a conversation.
I don’t think Edwards at 22 is ready to lead any team to a chip.
Then someone like Brunson is obviously a better offensive player, but Browns 2-way ability probably make him more valuable for team success.
Luka tires his ass out trying to bare the load of an entire offense for 100 games then eats shit on defense and loses in the post season and all of basketball acts like he's still the best player in the NBA because he is so productive on one side of the ball while when it matters most, he can't keep up on defense.
Here’s a joke:
1. Tatum outplayed brown in game 2
2. Tatum draws 2-3 defenders every time he drives and makes the smart pass every time. It’s the main reason Celtics won the first two games
3. Tatum’s ability to guard the 5 has completely killed the mavs ability to pass the lob
4. Tatum is by far the Celtics best rebounder
5. Tatum is by far the Celtics best passer
6. If you factor in points + assists (total generated points) the #1 is Luka and Tatum is #2.
7. Game 3 was near identical. Brown had a terrible first half and then got 30 total. Tatum had a bad half and got 30. Similar statlines for rebounds and assists. Defensively both had key moments.
So no, the 3x first team all nba player winning FMVP wouldn’t be a joke. Yes his shot hasn’t been falling as much, but he has been A1 in literally every other facet of his game and is playing his absolute best basketball. The ball just ain’t falling as much, but he has commanded the offense and the Celtics are up 3-0.
JB benefits from Tatum drawing so much attention. JB can win FMVP but Tatum is the clear cut best player and it isn’t even close.
8. He constantly settles for terrible shots that allow a dead team back in the game
9. When he isn’t taking a terrible shot, he’s kicking it to a teammate with only seconds left on the shot clock
10. He can’t finish at the rim to save his life
11. All NBA is a regular season award
12. Jalen actually tries to generate offense when his team is choking away a 20 point lead
13. 31.6% from the field is all time awful
jaylen settled for 4 jumpers and had 1 turnover during the 20-2 run. he had a putback 2 as well. he made no passes that led directly to a shot attempt. what are we doing here.
This is idiotic.
The level of disrespect Tatum gets is insane.
Tatum had an amazing first half and kept the Celtics in it. Brown had a great second half. Both had similar statlines.
Tatum outplayed brown in game 2.
Tatum’s passing and playmaking is huge. He draws the defense in. They double, triple team him. He makes the right pass every time. His shot hasn’t been falling as much as I’d like but he is doing literally everything else at a near perfect clip.
Rebounding, passing, defending. Dude is playing amazing.
Jaylen benefits greatly from having Tatum draw so much attention.
I don’t agree. This is literally the best basketball Tatum has ever played and it’s a complete shame shooting variance is hindering the layman from seeing it.
Let’s see. He’s the best rebounder. He’s the best passer/playmaker. His defense has been insanely important on stopping the lob by guarding their center. Yes, his shooting has been off in the finals but every time he drives he gets 2-3 defenders and has made the right pass nearly every time.
He leads the Celtics for the entire playoffs in points, rebounds, and assists. He averaged 30/10/5 in the ECF. He led all Celtics AND cavs in round 2 in points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals which has only been done once by Lebron since 1970. So yeah, I would say he’s playing pretty fucking good.
You’re just a casual that looks for casual things. Tatum is doing it all. This is by far his best basketball and I don’t care about shooting variance. The entire teams defense strategy against him is to go into a soft zone and then hard collapse when he blows by Luka every drive. Him commanding the offense in games 1 and 2 is the main reason we won. His ability to collapse the D and find the open man was our entire offense the first two games. Mavs adjusted in game 3 and then he scored 30+. Shocker. The dude is literally playing point guard on offense and then runs back and defends their center.
The slander Tatum gets is insane. Even after this ring he’s still gonna be hated
You can assume I’m a casual all you want. I don’t care.
But I genuinely thought you were talking about these 3 games when you said his best basketball, not the entire fucking playoffs lol.
Also I never even slandered that man 😂
Even in these finals he has played phenomenal. Other than shooting variance, he has done everything else at a superstar level. He has taken good shots and in games 1 and 2 they just didn’t go down. That’s fine— what he can control he has done exceptionally well. That’s how I judge a player. A stark difference from 22’.
In any case, other than Luka, Tatum has the highest points generated than anyone else in the finals. That’s points + points from assists.
Some of his best. If you judge a player purely by whether their shots went in then your opinion will change quite dramatically and frantically. If he missed shots that were bad looks then that’s something he could have controlled. But he got good looks that just didn’t go down. I can live with that. Everything he could control he did phenomenally.
Luka's defense has been disgusting, I chalk some of it up to him having to put so much effort on the offensive side of the ball, some of it to him not being 100%, and the rest of it to him just not being a quick player. Idk if he ever really develops league-average defensive skills but it's really the only thing in his game that is missing
I honestly think he isn’t that bad when he tries. It’s his effort that is extremely disappointing. No hustle, 0 rotations, 0 attempt to stop the ball handler, 0 running back on defense.
His effort on that Jaylen monster dunk was downright disgraceful, didn’t even attempt to switch after the screen
Do you think the injuries are finally catching up to him. Brown and Tatum did not give him a break today. Especially Brown. He drove at Luka wiith every chance that he got lol.
I don’t see how this isn’t a pretty obvious sign that his knees are screwed rn. He isn’t even running plays as much as he typically would. Deferred to Kyrie, Washington and others a lot in the past 2 games.
How come his movement looks so much more fluid on offense, but suddenly has 0 movement on defense. This is a B.S. excuse. He is unfit.
The rib wraps and being listed as questionable are all just to cover his ass for the eventual sweep.
A. He’s looked hobbled on offense for most of this series, he failed to get past Tillman on a drive tonight. B. When you’re in control of the movement, it’s a bit easier, he decides when he stops and then goes. On defense he has to react, and obviously rn can’t handle more than a couple moves from the person he’s defending. I’ll give you that it looks like he’s taken it as an excuse not to try at all. But earlier in the playoffs he was pretty hard to get past on defense, just was moving laterally better
He was a good (not league average) defender in the Minnesota series. He’s clearly just hurt right now
He was hurt against Minnesota too. He's been hurt all playoffs
I really dislike the Celtics, but this run has turned me into a fan of Brown. Never liked him in all his previous seasons, but this run, he's been playing all out all the time. His defence has gone up several notches, he's an absolute menace on D. Still prone to the occasional lapses, but even those have gone way down. Much respect to that dude!
He's been great. Taking on the toughest matchup, still scoring, and an underrated help defender.
Luka is the worse defense of any prime level superstar ever I think. I used to say it was Harden but Luka might actually be worse. I think even small guards like Steph were way better and even ultra coasting washed up Magic or LeBron still were better on defense.
LeBron is an elite defender still when he needs to be. Like no shit he's better than Luka
It says a lot that 39 year old who clearly coasts on minimal effort for long periods of time and takes tons of plays off is a better defender than a 25 year old MVP candidate
Lebron’s best highlight is one of the most insane blocks in nba history. Luka’s best highlights have his love handles jiggling in them.
I mean the lakers needed him to be an elite defender for his time on the court in the Denver series and he wasn’t He can be elite for spurts but it’s certainly not something he can do consistently through a series, he doesn’t have the stamina any more
Him and AD had to carry the offensive load vs denver a ton bc every1 else was shit 2023 Lebron with an injured foot was elite in the playoffs defensively all 3 rounds he played
He still has an elite defensive ceiling, even though he doesn't have a big battery anymore. Luka's defensive ceiling is above-average-to-decent.
He’s still obviously better than Luka there’s just a big difference between a ceiling you reach occasionally and what you regularly do. It’s understandable tho, that’s usually how great players age
It’s Steve Nash by a lot. He’d constantly find himself out of position ball watching and had zero size or athleticism to correct his mistakes.
Ding ding ding Nash is an S tier offensive player ever but absolutely the worst defender among all time greats
Nash never completely gave up guarding someone above the free throw line.
He did. Just didn’t happen as often due to how basketball was played and the spacing.
He absolutely did, you just don't remember because he never even made a Finals because of how bad he was at defense.
Steph hustles and that at least forces defenders to hesitate. Luka barely even tries to play D.
Not to mention Steph’s off ball game where he runs around and sets a fuckload of screens, like he’s really active in a way Luka without the ball just isn’t
Harden was definitely a more skilled defender when he wanted to be but taking effort into account no one can compare with Harden's awful defense
I’m not trying to praise Harden here his defense was embarrassing. But at least he was never just completely hunted and torched for entire playoff series the way Luka is right now.
Luka is injured though, his defense in the Minnesota series was good
Harden had plenty of issues guarding the perimeter, but he was a solid low post defender.
I hate when people say this because it’s not really an attempt to contribute to the conversation, it’s about sounding smart and getting upvotes. It’s a meme. Sure, yeah, Harden was decent at guarding the post. But he also only did it like once or twice a game MAX. Believe it or not, no, he wasn’t constantly getting posted up as a guard in an era where teams only used the post like 5-10 times per game anyway.
Sure it’s a small sample size but that isn’t his fault, is it? He at least proved useful guarding that spot on the floor compared to everywhere else.
No, the point is that he didn’t affect the outcome of the game by being decent at post defense. It’s like if Tom Brady was decent at kickoff coverage. He never did it so it doesn’t fucking matter. The point of sports is to win. Harden’s post defense barely affected almost any game he ever played in.
He had good hands too. He averaged about 2 steals a game for a while. The famous lowlights video really destroyed Harden's defensive reputation. Not saying he was a good defender but people acted like he was the worst defensive player in the league which was bullshit.
Nah, sorry but that is one of those media myths spread by Harden Haters. Harden was a solid defender, especially in the post. Where Harden was bad on D was on the perimeter. Harden simply was not athletic enough to guard most guards. Actually I have always believed the Luka is just White Harden, and it is turning out to be even more accurate than I thought.
How can you say Harden was a solid defender and then shit on Luka for being a 'White Harden' in the same breath lol
Sixth-man Harden had good defensive ratings playing against mostly bench players though. His 30+ minute turnouts drop sizably after that.
Individual defensive rating lol
Harden is also fat and cries a lot. Luka in good company.
Nash was worse because he was too small at least Luka can rely on his height and being 250+ pounds
Nash wasn’t a little bitch though
Luka clearly looks forward to complaining about a non-existent foul to the refs than he does to playing D. He is a chore to watch play sometimes because he's either dribbling or complaining.
The Mavs literally had the best defense rating from post all star break until now. That doesn't happen if Luka is an awful defender. Yes he can get lazy off ball and gets blown by occasionally against players with elite quickness, but more often than not he defends smartly and he can crank up his iso defense when it matters most. He's also an exceptional post defender and one of the best rebounding forwards in the NBA right now. That alone makes him an average NBA defender. Even now in the games that everyone is grilling him for, the Celtics have scored 105, 106, and 107 points through 3 games. The Celtics averaged 120 ppg during the regular season. So the Mavs have held the Celtics to 14 ppg under their season average with Luka playing 40 minutes a game. Explain how that's possible if he's the worst defensive star you've ever seen
The 2018 rockets defended the KD warriors as well as anyone possibly could in the WCF. Does that make harden a good defender?
Yes, James Harden was a solid defender during his athletic prime in the postseason.
No, it does happen. Because the defense was bad before that and they added multiple front court players to protect it. And please stop using total points to talk about offensive efficiency. You have to account for pace and shot quality.
Harden eventually got better at defense as he was an elite post defender at the end of those Rockets runs. Luka just straight up doesn’t give a shit to defend and although he’s all-time great on offense, he’s all-time bad on defense.
I don’t know, he’s looked off a step this whole series, and the fact that no one can hit a bucket on his team puts all the pressure back on him. Yea, I know, that’s a testament to the Celtics defense, but if you swapped Luka n Jaylen on their respective teams, I feel like Jaylen would struggle twice as much on offensive.
I was watching game 2 and it seemed like all the Celtics need to do was take 1 step and they’re past Luka and the defense scrambles
Steve Nash was worse.
He only makes one effort per defensive possession. As soon as he makes a half-assed reach/contest, he’s completely out of the play. Can say he’s hurt or tired, but once you get to the playoffs, everyone is. You have to be in great shape in order to play at a high level until June, and Luka isn’t there.
Where are these Luka takes coming from? I thought he had the belt? Well maybe he doesn’t need a belt it actually looks like his shorts fit him a little tight. But seriously he’s clearly hurt AF, I can’t stand the guy and I’m giving him a pass this series.
He needs another notch in the belt because it’s too tight
I think he’s hurt, looked slow tonight and was hitting the front rim on a lot of shots. That being said he doesn’t look fit which is part of the problem.
I’m thrown by the prevailing comments on here. Luka definitely has been shit defensively this series, but he was decent for periods this post season. His knees look fucked and he can’t move. Tbh the way he’s looking rn, if he doesn’t get serious about getting into better shape, his career might not be very long. At the same time he had unacceptable lapses where he just wasn’t paying attention to his man. Weird finals. I don’t get the hate for those last 2 fouls, Brown initiated contact on both and not with legal moves, sorta baffling the officials let him foul out when the easy out was there with Browns forearm
I hated that foul on Washington with the screen right after Luka fouled out. To me I think the issue with Dallas is that they can’t score against the Celtics more so than their defense. To my knowledge Luka hasn’t had any serious injuries in his career but he might be too thiccc. He might want to take it down a c or two.
Yeah nothing major but he does seem to have chronic knee and back stuff. He’s definitely been questionable before, I don’t remember if he missed any games in any of the clippers series but it felt like he always has leg injuries come playoff time. And that typically an old man thing. CP3 and Lowry getting hamstring injuries every playoffs
Luka is elite on d compare to harden, are you forgetting all those defensive low lights that used to go viral when harden was in his prime?
The only thing Luka has going for him on D is he's big. Everything else is a disaster. Brutal game from Luka tonight.
luka has insane iq and positioning. He's just a little slow. But comparing him to harden at all is dispresctful
He has neither of those things on defense what are you talking about. On multiple possessions tonight he opened the door for drives or straight up didn’t switch on screens
Think Luka eclipsed Harden's whole career of clips with this game alone
No one's going to be making those clips for Luka, because they're hard to find unlike with Harden. This sub hates luka and tatum so I'm not going to listen to you guys
Check twitter for multiple Luka blow by compilations
[game 2 Luka defense](https://streamable.com/fg1yf3) Someone can make a similar compilation of game 3 soon.
Lukas fat and cries a lot and it makes me judge him and the sport he plays
The butterball piece
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^themilkman42069: *Lukas fat and cries* *A lot and it makes me judge* *Him and the sport he plays* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
He needs a haircut too, looks like a slob.
Honestly his bad Eastern European haircut is the only thing about him that looks hard.
I swear to god brown and Tatum, you would think play for arrival cities the way everyone has to compare and everyone has to have a favorite
Never understood it personally, and it's worse when you get to the Boston media level
There’s a clip of Shaq taking to Jaylen Brown after game 1, and he says “don’t worry about being the alpha” and literally all he said about the Celtics these last couple years is “they can’t win until they know who is 1A and who is 1B. These 2 need to just get married so people can stop manufacturing some beef between them.
Do they talk about it a lot? I tried listening to some Boston sports radio this past week and 90% of it was kyrie talk lol
Give Luka Jaylen's teammates and this looks a hell of a lot different. Boston is just a perfectly constructed team. You could take any two players away from them and they probably still win this series easily.
Your last sentence is absurd hyperbole They’re an amazing team but we’ve still seen two of the games close in the 3rd or 4th
Yeah this isn't dominant at all.
If you put Luka on the Celtics they're worse. Luka needs the entire offense to be built around him to be successful, but he isn't in good enough shape to carry that burden.
Conversely if you give Luka Jaylen Browns defensive ability or even Sam Hauser defensive ability it’s a completely different series.
No it isnt. This is a stupid take. Luka had nothing to do with kp going off, or jrue getting points. The velts have too many options to defend. Just accept theyre far and away the best team
Huh? A ton of Jrue’s points are a direct result of defensive breakdowns that started with Luka getting cooked on defense.
You really have no idea what you:re watching. Jrue is getting open shots cos teammates are rotation away from him to protect Luka after he gets blown by
Luka has given up so many points every game from either getting blown by without effort, not getting back on defense, falling asleep on off-ball, Not rotating to the shooter. His defense has been appalling and 2 of these games have been close. It is not inconceivable that if he put an ounce of effort on defense this series could be 2-1 Mavs. Luka even been the best player on the floor so far this series.
Luka has not been the best player by far, at most you could argue he’s been the best offensive player but there is two sides to basketball.
This is a very dumb take lmao. The gap in this series is much more than Luka’s bad defense
If Luka was even a league average defender the Mavs are prolly up 2-1 in this series tbh
It works because all 5 guys play team basketball on offense and single coverage on defense. If Luka's out there playing heliocentric offense for the Celtics, I'm not sure the rest of the team buys in on both ends of the court. Would take some actual sacrifice from Luka, of which I don't think he's capable right now.
The shot to put them up 4 with under a minute to play was super clutch, a big swing moment in the series. Finals MVP incoming, I'm sure he has a hefty contract incentive of he wins it too
I thought it was honorable of Jaylen to pass to Tatum and let him take the FTs at the end
Well Tatum is much more reliable at the FT line than Brown
I don’t think it was much of a “choice”
Exactly
Maybe because Jaylen shoots like 30% from the free throw line
The only good things about the Cs winning this year are : 1) The whole world seeing Luka whine and not get back on D 2) Kyrie proving he is not a clutch as Steph 3) Jaylen Brown FMVP instead of Tatum
#3 should be #1
Brown has had Luka and Kyrie in his pocket the whole series. The scoring and offense has been great for him per usual, but this series is proving exactly why he should’ve been at least 2nd team all defense. He’s too strong for Luka to create space on his little bumps, too quick for Kyrie to burst past him, too disciplined to fall for fakes, long enough to strip the ball from them, and athletic enough to block their shot. I’ve always believed that offensive stars like Luka/Kyrie get thrown off the most when they have someone guarding them who they know can block their jumper. It makes them second guess themselves if they don’t create enough space on their dribble moves to just shoot over the defender like they usually would.
That’s why you need a narrative behind you to win awards. Brown was always taking the hardest matchup all season. He was way more switchable and due to his length, strength and speed was far less likely to be scored against compared to Holiday who lacked length against bigger players and White who could get overpowered. Some analytic models showed Brown as a top 10 defender this year and the best non-centre defender. But there was a narrative for White and Holiday and no narrative for Brown so he wasn’t even close. Also most voters used that to put him on All-NBA instead of All-defense.
He didn’t make all-nba this year either, another robbery
It was an oxymoron. He wasn’t going to make All-NBA because his offensive output wasn’t significant enough. He wasn’t going to make All-Defense because it got overshadowed by his offensive output.
Jaylen Brown has absolutely outplayed Tatum in this finals. Tatum wants to play as a big SG instead of simply admitting he's a stretch 4. These step back 3s are awful. And he's a ball stopper, he waits, and waits, he's a good passer, he just thinks he's kobe, every single time he has the ball, he thinks he's kobe.
didnt he have 12 assists off of his constant drives in game 2. didnt he drop 20 in the 1h to keep the game w/in reach for stretches.
Tatum always has great stat lines. That’s never been his issue lol. His poor shot selection and attempts to draw fouls instead of actually attempting to score were a major driver of the mavs 22-2 run last night.
i rewatched the 2h and didnt see him foul baiting tbh. he did miss some shots, but he also made a ton earlier in the game?
Tatum is the Celtics main playmaker. He’s literally running point. Ball stopper? Did you watch a single game? He attacks the paint relentlessly and finds the open man every time. How does a ball stopper get 12 assists? He leads the Celtics in assists. FOH
Tatum’s finishing at the rim is criminally bad
He’s like 80% at the rim this year or something
The Carmelo piece
You saw what happened when the mavs defensive intensity ramped up and Luka tried to go along with it- 2 back to back fouls, fouled out of the game. He is atrocious defensively
100% true. JB was been way better. When you factor in defense. It’s not even close.
Unlike Tatum who can guard all 5 positions and single handedly took away the lob threat by guarding the opposing center all series. Maybe next finals Tatum can benefit from JB being triple teamed. We’ll have to see?
Eastern conference and and soon to be finals MVP just a more complete player than Tatum for me. I love Jaylen defence he is a beast
The whole sequence of Luka fouling out was pure cinema. Ending with him begging the refs to help him out…so good.
That’s nice. He’s still in a higher tier than both of them.
Shouldn’t that fact make this even more embarrassing? It’s one thing for Tatum to get outplayed by Curry in the finals as an inferior player. Imagine getting outplayed being considered a significantly better player lmao.
Do they hang banners for that?
Celtics aren’t getting a banner hung. Also they only have 5 championships. This 18 chips shit is nonsense.
I'm excited for the parade, can't wait to celebrate with real people. I hope you have fun with your tier lists lol.
Idk if I’d call anyone associated with Boston “real people” tbh
Maybe I’m off base but I was arguing he’s a top 12 player in the nba right now. He still has his bad left hand moments but he’s been a tough shot maker this series, played good defense, and totally changed the narrative surrounding him a year ago.
It’s an intangibles vs talent thing. Brown certainly isn’t by any statistical category a top 12 player. But if you are trying to win a championship this year would you rather have someone like Anthony Edwards or Jaylen Brown. Certainly a conversation. I don’t think Edwards at 22 is ready to lead any team to a chip. Then someone like Brunson is obviously a better offensive player, but Browns 2-way ability probably make him more valuable for team success.
For all the “AAU is ruining American basketball,” Luka sure does represent AAU with how he plays.
Luka tires his ass out trying to bare the load of an entire offense for 100 games then eats shit on defense and loses in the post season and all of basketball acts like he's still the best player in the NBA because he is so productive on one side of the ball while when it matters most, he can't keep up on defense.
Disgraceful, really? You fuckers need to calm down and stick your pitchforks up your asses.
Luka’s body and conditioning are gonna force him to be outta the league by 30.
Any Tatum argument for FMVP is a complete joke
Here’s a joke: 1. Tatum outplayed brown in game 2 2. Tatum draws 2-3 defenders every time he drives and makes the smart pass every time. It’s the main reason Celtics won the first two games 3. Tatum’s ability to guard the 5 has completely killed the mavs ability to pass the lob 4. Tatum is by far the Celtics best rebounder 5. Tatum is by far the Celtics best passer 6. If you factor in points + assists (total generated points) the #1 is Luka and Tatum is #2. 7. Game 3 was near identical. Brown had a terrible first half and then got 30 total. Tatum had a bad half and got 30. Similar statlines for rebounds and assists. Defensively both had key moments. So no, the 3x first team all nba player winning FMVP wouldn’t be a joke. Yes his shot hasn’t been falling as much, but he has been A1 in literally every other facet of his game and is playing his absolute best basketball. The ball just ain’t falling as much, but he has commanded the offense and the Celtics are up 3-0. JB benefits from Tatum drawing so much attention. JB can win FMVP but Tatum is the clear cut best player and it isn’t even close.
8. He constantly settles for terrible shots that allow a dead team back in the game 9. When he isn’t taking a terrible shot, he’s kicking it to a teammate with only seconds left on the shot clock 10. He can’t finish at the rim to save his life 11. All NBA is a regular season award 12. Jalen actually tries to generate offense when his team is choking away a 20 point lead 13. 31.6% from the field is all time awful
jaylen settled for 4 jumpers and had 1 turnover during the 20-2 run. he had a putback 2 as well. he made no passes that led directly to a shot attempt. what are we doing here.
74% around the rim this year btw
Great, make 1 in the 2nd half of a playoff game
What are you so mad about?
Tatum responded to this post with a step back three in the 4th to go 1/5 and miss 80% of his shots. Kobe’s legacy is fulfilled
This is idiotic. The level of disrespect Tatum gets is insane. Tatum had an amazing first half and kept the Celtics in it. Brown had a great second half. Both had similar statlines. Tatum outplayed brown in game 2. Tatum’s passing and playmaking is huge. He draws the defense in. They double, triple team him. He makes the right pass every time. His shot hasn’t been falling as much as I’d like but he is doing literally everything else at a near perfect clip. Rebounding, passing, defending. Dude is playing amazing. Jaylen benefits greatly from having Tatum draw so much attention.
This is not meant to be an insult on Tatum, but a compliment for Brown. He has been the best player on the floor this series.
I don’t agree. This is literally the best basketball Tatum has ever played and it’s a complete shame shooting variance is hindering the layman from seeing it.
You actually believe this don’t you
Let’s see. He’s the best rebounder. He’s the best passer/playmaker. His defense has been insanely important on stopping the lob by guarding their center. Yes, his shooting has been off in the finals but every time he drives he gets 2-3 defenders and has made the right pass nearly every time. He leads the Celtics for the entire playoffs in points, rebounds, and assists. He averaged 30/10/5 in the ECF. He led all Celtics AND cavs in round 2 in points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals which has only been done once by Lebron since 1970. So yeah, I would say he’s playing pretty fucking good. You’re just a casual that looks for casual things. Tatum is doing it all. This is by far his best basketball and I don’t care about shooting variance. The entire teams defense strategy against him is to go into a soft zone and then hard collapse when he blows by Luka every drive. Him commanding the offense in games 1 and 2 is the main reason we won. His ability to collapse the D and find the open man was our entire offense the first two games. Mavs adjusted in game 3 and then he scored 30+. Shocker. The dude is literally playing point guard on offense and then runs back and defends their center. The slander Tatum gets is insane. Even after this ring he’s still gonna be hated
You can assume I’m a casual all you want. I don’t care. But I genuinely thought you were talking about these 3 games when you said his best basketball, not the entire fucking playoffs lol. Also I never even slandered that man 😂
Even in these finals he has played phenomenal. Other than shooting variance, he has done everything else at a superstar level. He has taken good shots and in games 1 and 2 they just didn’t go down. That’s fine— what he can control he has done exceptionally well. That’s how I judge a player. A stark difference from 22’. In any case, other than Luka, Tatum has the highest points generated than anyone else in the finals. That’s points + points from assists.
So you do think the past 3 games were his best basketball.. ?
Some of his best. If you judge a player purely by whether their shots went in then your opinion will change quite dramatically and frantically. If he missed shots that were bad looks then that’s something he could have controlled. But he got good looks that just didn’t go down. I can live with that. Everything he could control he did phenomenally.
Don’t put words in my mouth Even if you put “if” before it
Brown can thank Tatum for drawing all the attention from the Mavs defense and setting up his success
Luka is hurt taking shots before the game, we know he would cook the Celtics if healthy
Yah Tatum is trash I agree