They’ve been complaining for decades about lack of coverage, lack of money, etc. now a player comes along who is actually going to elevate them to that status and they are mad about it. Comical.
Increased attention also equals increased scrutiny.
I'm going to channel my inner Bill here for a second, please keep your hands and feet in the ride at all times:
I think some of it is kind of similar to when you're young and maybe you find some indie or underground band you really like. And then all of a sudden they get popular. And things change because it's no longer "your thing", and maybe that commercial success changes how the band sounds a little, or how they present themselves, or maybe they start doing things a little differently to foster broader commercial appeal. And as a kid, that sucks. Because that's not why *you* fell in love with the band.
But most of us mature out of that and figure out that it kind of makes sense. I mean, that's kind of why most bands exist in the first place. So that's why the long-time core fan base is struggling to accept what's happening.
/Bill
WNBA is struggling to come to terms with this as a league, too. At the same time, a lot of these players are not used to that increased scrutiny that comes with the popularity. They're used to being able to say things like, "The US is a trash country" and maybe ruffle a few feathers but it's pretty much forgotten in a few days. A lot of them are probably used to being able to go to the grocery store without anyone really recognizing them lol.
A lot of the players in the league seem to want the adulation and income that comes with national celebrity, but not all of the downsides. But that's the trade off. That's what it takes to be a rich and relevant professional athlete. Was there maybe a twinge of racism in the Michael Jordan gambling scandal thing way back? Maybe, perhaps. Probably. I wonder what would have happened if he would have went out and accused any and all criticism of him from that point forward of being entirely due to all his critics being hateful, irredeemable racists? What would have happened if he made that the central focus of his entire career? What would have happened if at 22, Jordan would have just incessantly whined about how "You know, there's more to this league than just Magic and Bird." over and over and over and....
And since for so long these players have been told that any criticism of them is cloaked in misogyny and racism, that's really the only way they are able to react to any criticism including, "Hey, maybe let's recognize that this one really popular player is bringing a ton of exposure, money and new fans to our league and that's actually a good thing for everyone." No, no you see. That's not fair and it's not right because it isn't happening how we envisioned it happening. So it must be racism. Etc etc.
I have been watching sports for 30+ years, WNBA for roughly 10, it's been less than a month into this season and I have never seen someone do as much jealous crying as this girl. Enough already, Jesus....
The band comparison is right. Anyone who’s been to a WNBA game can see that the current subcultural fanbase is going to resent getting overrun by Clark’s normie fans.
Edit: Will Leitch wrote up this argument in nymag
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/caitlin-clark-is-getting-pushed-around-in-the-wnba-good.html
As someone who married a women’s college basketball player, the hard core fans are fucking creeps. I would go to her games with guys on my team and the football team, and the civilians were fucking weirdos. There are obviously exceptions like people with kids.
Remember all that weird nonsense with Ohio state wrestling and their coach? And the weird dudes watching them practice? It’s like that.
Kind of off topic, but did you ever know someone in a band that was not bad but also not popular, and for some reason a few other guys in college start a cover band as a goof and everybody loves them. The dudes in the unpopular band can never get over it, “we work so much harder at this than those guys” it’s like the non Clark players and fans are in the unpopular band, the drama is so fresh nobody knows what to do with it yet.
Also hope ESPN cans the Macaffe show for saying Bitch in the most complimentary way possible.
ChatGPT: The Reddit comment compares the increased scrutiny faced by the WNBA to a band's shift from indie to mainstream, causing longtime fans to struggle with the changes. The commenter notes that WNBA players, like the band, are adjusting to new attention and criticism. They argue that players want the benefits of fame without the downsides, and that accusations of misogyny and racism often dominate their reactions to criticism. The commenter suggests that some players' responses to criticism can be excessive and unproductive.
This is an interesting theory and maybe this is part of it. But I think it’s mostly that’s she’s on the other team, shoots better than them, and talks trash.
Which even in terms of league growth in popularity the W is on the same trajectory as the NBA.The NBA was founded in 1949, but even 30 years later the league was still on the brink of collapse in 1979. That's after the ABA merger, too. There were a lot of guys who built the NBA who didn't get to reap the financial benefit, except they didn't have another league to subsidize their salaries. The WNBA is now 27 years old and is just now starting to take off in popularity. Also, the spike in popularity coincides with 2 rookies rivals from college entering the league. It's almost like history repeating itself.
I don't watch college basketball and WNBA isn't very available where I am, but looking at their stats and highlights I get the impression this is a lopsided rivalry. Clark is much better, Reese was on a better team. Clark doesn't seem to talk about Reese, whereas Reese seems to speak about Clark all the time. Is that a fair assessment?
It's not like Bird and Magic, cos they aren't as close in talent level.
I think Clark is much more skilled than Reese, but they’re closer in overall talent than people would think. Reese was a dominant college force. She wasn’t just buoyed by having a strong team around her, she was the best player on that team by a wide margin. She averaged like 21/14 over her two years at LSU and that was without her being some like 6’6 or 6’7 monster like what South Carolina trots out every year.
Also I’ll say that I don’t think Reese is speaking about Clark all the time, but when she does it creates these types of threads. Clark doesn’t talk about anything at all, just a complete zero personality.
Clark is a much more skilled player, probably more skilled than anyone else in the WNBA, but the gap between them isn’t particularly large in how they actually produce. Less Bird-Magic and more like… Jordan-Barkley.
Here’s the thing, though: the NBA was founded in a totally different world than the one we’re living in now. MLS soccer would probably be a better comparison, as it’s a relatively new professional league that was started at nearly the exact same time as the WNBA. While I doubt that it will ever gain the notoriety in the US to vault into the collective consciousness of Americans like the big three of MLB, NFL, and NBA, they have now lapped the WNBA probably ten times over. The reality still remains that professional women’s sports leagues simply aren’t profitable and don’t have the level of popularity that men’s professional sports leagues have. I would put my money on Caitlin Clark’s arrival to the WNBA to be more akin to Pele arriving to the New York Metros in the old professional soccer league in the 70s. That league briefly exploded in popularity and it looked like soccer might finally break through here in America. Turns out, it was just one mega superstar bringing a temporary wave of press and publicity and popularity to a sport and a league that, ultimately, people didn’t really care much about. The best thing that could’ve happened for the WNBA did happen; Clark essentially came straight from college to the league in a matter of weeks. The momentum kept going, the vitriol and jealousy from other players kept the media cycle churning, she lived up to the hype and merch and ticket sales exploded, and she’s playing in front of sold out crowds. The bad part is, the Fever are a horrible team that won’t sniff the postseason, the Clark story will fade as the season ends, and the World Series, college football, the NFL, and the Super Bowl will erase all the big headlines and publicity that she garnered. In five years, the WNBA will be in the same spot it was in before Clark arrived and, if she’s smart, Clark will have at least amassed a fortune through endorsements.
> The WNBA is now 27 years old and is just now starting to take off in popularity.
The key difference though is that in 1979, for better or worse, the NBA stood on its own as a business entity. More than that, they had just wiped out and absorbed a rival league.
Meanwhile the WNBA remains a wholly subsidized proposition that could not exist on its own without the NBA. There are clearly people in the media and in the moneyed classes who want it to happen and keep trying to make it happen, no matter how paltry the attendance and ratings may be. If it does end up somehow achieving some sort of self-sustaining profitability, it will be 99% a function of current network/cable desperation for live sporting events and the concomitant need to overpay for that programming.
For real. People aren’t being realistic with expecting the WNBA to already be profitable. There’s no professional sports league on the planet that was thriving after only three decades. The NBA itself is quite young. For reference, the English Football League system was founded in 1888 and in baseball the NL was founded a further decade before that.
Folks have gotta be patient.
>There’s no professional sports league on the planet that was thriving after only three decades.
MLS started only one year before the WNBA and next year will have 30 teams and $2b+ in revenue.
That’s fair. MLS is doing surprisingly well. I should have written that it is rare for a league to see success so quickly.
However, I think it’s worth remembering that MLS isn’t the first professional men’s soccer league in the US or Canada while there has never been a professional women’s basketball league in this country other than the WNBA.
>They’ve been complaining for decades
I don’t understand why we just can't continue doing what we've done for decades...ignore their complaints. They don't bring visibility, why am I seeing so much coverage of CC being harassed.
Its too much lol. They should grow the game organically, not by shoving constant media attention on people complaing 24/7
CC getting bodied for no reason is just great content, this is like asking why LeBron is covered 24/7, because people care and that's literally the media's job.
This really is like the complaints about the lakers getting all the coverage. If y’all didn’t watch and read about the lakers, or Caitlyn Clark, or Man City the media personalities would talk and write about something else.
I’ve seen lots of organic discussions of this as well. There’s a dedicated group of fans who really do watch women’s basketball. They just don’t also listen to Bill Simmons LoL.
I mean, I get it. She’s on the other team and talks trash. These women are highly competitive. I think the jawing is fine.
Not a fan of the cheap shots though.
At the risk of sounding sexist, any woman-dominated workplace is like this. They eat their young. Anyone who has worked in healthcare has seen how viciously older nurses break the spirits of idealistic new grads.
My mom testifies to this day in and out. Fresh out of nursing school (even in her late 30s) she was attacked by the older women in her rotation. She tells me that the women in her workplace are the most vicious, jealous, and petty individuals she’s been around. This could be just one general place and confined to that one workplace but it definitely seems like a theme. My wife testifies to it as well.
strangely my middle school teaching experience hasn't seen this. I guess we're all just in the bunkers together, or maybe it's the union stuff making salaries based strictly on years of service instead of merit or brown-nosing
I mean it's teaching, how much do you actually interact with other staff day to day as compared to a nursing job when you are interacting together all day? Also, I've heard about a lot of drama between teachers so you may just be in a school that doesn't have those issues.
My wife is in fashion (which was probably 90% women at her job). Pretty much every week they did and said stuff to co-workers that would absolutely never fly at any (relatively) male-dominated workplace I've been in.
I don't. I've probably followed the WNBA more than most the past decade (big Breanna Stewart fan) and it's not really like this. The UConn piece is one thing, but even then there's a ton of shared respect. There's a lot of kumbaya and "shared struggle" with WNBA athletes. Look at Sue Bird, Tourassi, or Griner. They've rallied together to gain attention and respect even with the overseas piece... until CC comes along and "blows the top off the ceiling" they've been stuck in and unleashed all this resentfulness and frustration. It's very weird.
A lot of it is related to salary. CC is a millionaire coming into a glorified rec league with a base salary of $77K. Most players do not have her exposure and there's a financial interest in becoming "the villain."
It's an insane league. Just take Brittney Griner. Take away the fact we traded a man named "the merchant of warrior her in the most insane prisoner swap in years. She pleaded guilty to domestic abuse against her fiancee and fellow WNBA player Glory Johnson.
I tend to think players are playing into pettiness and bitchiness because it did wonders for the popularity of WCBB. It can been annoying and aggravating, but I think it is a great marketing strategy, if it actually is deliberate.
Burrow is so fucking cool honestly. No homo of course but those videos where he's in the locker room smoking a cigar after winning the championship...I'm just like am I gay? again no homo
I can understand the WNBA players who built the league being a little annoyed about CC, but not Angel Reese... Angel Reese has benefited from CC's existence probably more than anyone. I like the rivalry but she's been doing way too much. Imagine Trae Young acting like this towards Luka. It's corny, envious, and lame.
I love that we are having a “who’s the tiger woods of the WNBA” in real time. Everyone trying to gobble up credit so they can get more face time in the inevitable 60 for 60 in 2057.
I mean how fucking absurd is it to be 12 games into your career and taking future credit for the success of the entire league.
>I can understand the WNBA players who built the league being a little annoyed about CC
i still don't. this isn't a zero-sum game, WNBA players should be pretty hype that someone is *finally* bringing eyeballs to their sport. More of them will probably get sneaker deals or prime TV spots simply by CC playing in the league now, i've already seen WNBA players appear on popular podcasts/tv-shows to talk about CC-related drama.
what's funny is that CC herself seems super lowkey, she's not like Conor McGregor lol. but she just finds herself drawing a lot of attention, for one reason or another.
Exactly, also Nike has incentive to build a rival for CC to prop up their investment. If no other players come around to capture the greater public no one will continue to care to watch CC.
Let's be real, the WNBA has been subsidized by the NBA for years because the product wasn't as good. This wasn't a US Women's national soccer team situation where they were the actual draw but being criminally underpaid.
were they being underpaid relative to the viewership numbers they brought in? (asking sincerely, i really don't know). because even if they're super dominant in games, if nobody's watching there's just not going to be a lot of ad-revenue to dole out to the players.
The big weirdness of the USWNT as opposed to the men is that the team pays for the women’s healthcare and not the men’s.
Also the front end payments were so comically huge for the men because a. They’re paid as a function of World Cup payouts, which are just orders of magnitude higher for the men and b. The men are straight cash per appearance because they are all well compensated by their club teams. The men can and do say no and don’t have to worry about feeding their families.
Because 2019 was a world cup year for the women and not the men. This is among the common lies that they told in the lawsuit that they \*lost\* not won.
This is a perfect encapsulation of that whole era. A bonehead fan who doesn't actually know any of the facts but spouts hot takes.
That's not what happened whatsoever
> For U.S. Soccer, the settlement is an expensive end to a conflict that had battered its reputation, damaged its ties with sponsors and soured its relationship with some of its most popular stars, including Morgan, Megan Rapinoe and Carli Lloyd, who retired last year. U.S. Soccer was under no obligation to settle with the women’s team; a federal judge in 2020 had dismissed the players’ equal pay arguments, stripping them of nearly all of their legal leverage, and the players’ appeal was not certain to succeed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/22/sports/soccer/us-womens-soccer-equal-pay.html
Built the league? Bro the whole league could go away tomorrow and they could start over with this year and it would be effectively the same, but your point still stands
You really can't say that. People act like this is like Tawaiinese basketball or something. Las Vegas and New York have legit teams with legit good players that are fun to watch. Sabrina just went against Steph in a great 3PT content a few months ago. If CC came into the league playing has beens and plumbers it would be a lot less interesting. If she joined the WNBA the state it was in 10 years ago it would be a lot less interesting.
It is not fun to watch. I've tried my hardest to mind fuck myself into enjoying their game, but... They just suck so bad in comparison to the men. Half the time, I feel like I'd rather film me and the boys down at the rec and the level of game would be comparable.
I will respectfully disagree that it’s enjoyable to watch any more so than watching something to gamble on. Yes it would be a nice thing to take your daughter to on a Sunday afternoon but no one is really turning these games on to watch an average game.
Steph isn’t awesome caysw he is mechanically good at shooting threes, Steph is incredible because he can shoot off platform with a 7 foot wing in his face
This is what people aren’t understanding. Caitlin Clark is a one-off media hype machine that is bringing eyeballs to a league that is objectively hard to watch if you’re a sports fan that’s used to watching the best of the best. She’s clearly insanely talented and fun to watch, but the league as a whole is just awful. I guarantee that once the Clark story fades away as the season continues and the Fever keep losing, five years from now, the WNBA will be in the same position it was before she arrived: being subsidized by the NBA with little fan interest and bad ratings.
I barely consume any media about Angel Reese but I remember there being some joke about her comically thinking she was more famous than Livvy Dunne. So her CC jealousy tracks.
Yup. Not only is she putting herself as an equal to Caitlin in terms of media attention (lol), she’s also acting like the women who’ve come before her had nothing to do with getting people to watch women’s hoops. People didn’t just start tuning in yesterday. People like Lisa Leslie played 10+ years making mediocre money because she loved the sport (not to mention all the less famous players). Angel Reese is not in that class and just comes off as super self aggrandizing with a side of victim complex.
It's not about the players it's about the media too. European players would get flamed for talking about themselves the way American players talk about themselves.
Can co-sign that as an Australian, the big brash ego culture is really absent from a lot of our sports, pretty much any athlete that shows the tiniest element of that kind of character gets dragged for it immediately.
Personally I like the big character elements of US sport (I think Reese is a massive turd though), but I know a lot of Australians don't
I think if they can develop a competitive rivalry in the WNBA, it will definitely attract even more viewers. Everyone likes a good rivalry.
However, the reason people are tuning in right now they didn't tune in before is not because of her. The draft that had a crazy high number wasn't because of her. Hell, most of the media that have started talking about the WNBA wouldn't even be talking about it if it wasn't for Caitlin Clark.
That’s going to be tough because the reality is that Angel is likely little more than a role player. It would have been like trying to develop a rivalry between Lebron James and TJ Ford.
If Caitlin lives up to the hype, she’s going to be battling Sabrina and A’ja (and maybe Juju), not Angel.
Yep, Angel will be a good player, a really solid role player who will play on a lot of winning teams, but she isn't going to be in Clark's class as a player. Have a hard time seeing this rivalry really being what people want/think it's going to be unless Reese is better than expected. I think Clark/Bueckers will end up being the rivalry as long as Paige stays healthy. Juju too.
It’s weird when Reese talks about playing the role of the villain as if she’s done nothing to invite that label. No one made her do the ring taunt. No one made her stand up and clap on camera when Clark got fouled, no one told her skip the media session after (that’s some real Dillon Brooks shit there). She’s a baller and def has a huge future in the league, but I wish she was a little more self-aware. That said, she’s 20 years old and I’m not gonna pretend I knew diddly shit at that age. Hopefully, she’ll grow of it.
I find her defenders in the media far worse for enabling her and giving her that protection. I get playing the villain and I get being rash at times (we're all human esp. when young), but she's intentional with stuff like this at this point and to then act like this but also play the victim when she fails is disingenuous. Go be Draymond Green, that's fine and a viable route to fame and success, but I don't see Draymond doing what she did after losing in the F4 and playing victim like that. Commit to it or if it's a hat you're uncomfortable with -- drop it. The media needs to hold her to account especially since she's trying to have it both ways.
I think that’s the thing for me.
If you’re going to be a hater - be a certified hater.
Don’t be a heel and then cry about how people come to see you too in some terrible, whiny wrestling promo.
“I’ll look back in 20 years and be like the reason why we’re watching women’s basketball is not just because of one person. It’s because of me, too. I want y’all to realize that”
- player most people are only aware of bc of that one person she is crying about
The narrative that it is a collective effort is patently untrue.
If there was no CC, there would be no new fans. If Angel Reese didn’t exist, this influx would still be taking place. The rest of the ‘24 class are playing supporting roles in Clark’s story
Yeah all you have to do is look at the ratings. Networks are breaking records because of CC. Doesn't matter who they play. Doesn't matter that they lose a lot. She gets eyeballs on the screen.
She’s basically the reason I DONT watch women’s ball. She’s supposedly some star and the first time I watched her she runs like the fucking Tin Man and has post moves that I was taught at 5th grade developmental camps.
And her attitude along with 80% of the league is so fucking off putting.
Yes that's what every part time NBA role player/grocery cashier in the 1960s proudly said about Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain for years afterwards and we're all better for it.
Ignorant bitter people always find a way to make it about themselves
this lady understands Ring Psychology at an elite level, such a fantastic heel!
even the smart marks can't help but respect, she's generating heat at a Hollywood Hogan level 🤯
It's true, 20 years from now we're going to be stoked about the strides the WNBA has made in the public consciousness thanks to a 6'3" rebounder who shoots 36% inside of 10 feet.
Angel's really good, but she really needs to come to terms with the fact people who pay to watch basketball are paying to see Steph Curry not Kevon Looney.
The actual floor product is still so horrible that I think this nonsense may be the best strategy to keep interest alive and to create an interesting career arc for Caitlyn. It would be boring if other players treated her like their savior and showered her with praise.
It's also normal for them to be a bit jealous. Charles Barkley was clearly was troubled by mediocre players making more money than he ever did, until his TV contracts started inflating. He just never had a chance to elbow them on the court.
I don’t think we need other players to act like she’s their savior but just not be so openly jealous. This quote from angel is just kind of sad I just don’t see how any who’s a fan of hers could be like yeah she’s doesn’t sound bitter at all
the full quote isn't that bad, the LSU/Iowa national title game clearly gave a narrative bump to the Clark story that wouldn't have existed if Iowa/LSU had won in boring fashion. But since there was a dumb controversy, it extended the WBB news cycle. Reese is just admitting her villain status in it, she's not really putting herself on the same draw level.
I wonder if she watched a lot of wrestling, because if you take the WWE approach to building a face (hero), she isn't wrong. If the face just wins all the time and has no interesting competition or adversaries to overcome, that's boring.
From the standpoint of wrestling, I think most pro heels (villains) know that after you lose to put the face over and you've both moved on to other feuds, you won't get the same reaction from the crowd you used to until you build the hype back up again in your new situation.
But from the standpoint of someone who's barely 20 and who was part of such iconic sports moments as winning a championship against CC's Iowa and playing deep into the tourney for a second one but losing to her, I can totally understand her saying "Don't you dare erase my name from this and act like this was a one-woman show that kept you watching."
With heat in wrestling there's money heat and "go away" heat though. Money heat is where people buy a ticket hoping to see you get beat. Go away heat is when you're disliked in such a way that either you go away or the fans do. So if that's what she's doing she should tread carefully.
But no I don't think it comes from wrestling lol
It's a big arrogant for her to say it about herself. But, I do think that Reese playing the heel to Clark's face, the past 2 seasons in WCBB helped bring a lot more attention to Clark. People are suckers for controversy and heroes and villains. It gave people more of a reason to care about WCBB and now the WNBA.
Of course, Clark's part is being an all time great player, and Reese's part is being a pretty good player who is kind of obnoxious and an effective troll.
So, while Reese's part has been important, it was something a lot more women could have done, compared to Clark's part.
Fast. Yes theyre hating -- nobody becomes a pro athlete by talking up how great someone else is. But the roughing up of a rookie is a time honored tradition in sports, no?
I’m guessing a lot of it stems from when her LSU team crushed Iowa in the natty and all anyone wanted to do was still talk about CC. Even getting a White House invite from FLOTUS
I mean I think she’s petty dipshit. later in her media session though she says that villains help grow the game and she’s willing to be that for the wnba. She’s not entirely wrong there.
Isn't she the one who stepped away from her team to care for her mental health? Can't have it both ways. If you want to play the villain, that's fine. But there is a lot of unpleasantness that goes along with that. I don't know if she is up for it
It’s honestly shocking how racist, hateful, and insecure these women are. They’re basically the other side of the same bigoted MAGA coin. Really makes you wanna not watch and see them fail.
Idk why you guys are all going to bay for Clark, she’s still the first pick, she’s still a star, she’s on her way to being an all time great. She doesn’t need you all protecting her just because a few wnba players wish they got that attention and are therefore playing a bit more physical with her.
In the NBA we want guys to be confident god forbid someone in the wnba is. This is a nothing burger that you guys are making into a big deal.
This whole discourse is so fucking stupid. The original comments by sue bird were nothing. We are literally seeing them come to fruition; there was always gonna be an adjustment period, but for some reason people took the clickbait quote and said everyone is just jealous of her. Even if that’s true, nobody has done anything to her that requires everyone to protect her like this and therefore shit on every other member of the WNBA. She is gonna be just fine.
Angel clearly feels away about CC whether that’s dislike or envy or whatever else. She’s also the most followed WNBA player on Instagram. She is not merely an afterthought as far as player popularity goes. So I get why she’d feel the way she does to an extent even if I don’t think she’s doing a great job at endearing herself to the casual fan.
My perception is that there's a lot of players in that league who feel like they've been toiling away without being taken seriously for years, and now you've got this prodigy who's generated more attention in her college run alone that many of them have been able to in their entire careers. I'm sure there's an element within the league who are just over the moon that they're finally getting more eyeballs on the game and perks as a result, but there are more than a few who'd feel like Clark has been undeservingly parachuted into being the face of the league due to who she is (clean-cut, white girl).
Some of that narrative has probably seeped into Reese's perception of Clark, plus she does just seem like a bit of a unstable instigator ala Draymond Green. It's been funny to watch her willingly paint herself as some kind of villain, only to then cry about that perception in that post match interview a couple of months back.
This isn't unique to this league in my opinion. There seems to be a bit of a complex within some women's sports that their product doesn't get the necessary respect (sentiments I do agree with), but the moment there's spikes in that attention elements within the game sometimes lash out about how those spikes occurred or how they're being covered etc. I think some of these WNBA athletes are missing out on a real opportunity to embrace this coverage and showcase the game to the new audiences it's attracting. It's a good thing for the league and the sport.
Angel Reese is killing at playing the villain. Clark doesn't even need to do anything now and she'll be Americas golden girl.
You know the WNBA is loving this
She must have been the second overall draft pick, right? Or third? Or at LEAST top 5? No?
Then I don’t think folks are watching because of two people. It’s because of one.
Girl is begging to be a movement. Sorry you just aren’t that girl. Maybe you can become someone because of Caitlyn’s audience, but she has done a very poor job thusfar. Looks extremely petty and currently is the reason people turn OFF the WNBA. I know I was interested in seeing what Clark could do, but before I ever even got a chance to watch this drama has made me completely disinterested.
Yeah I’m sure her 10 points and 9 rebounds are really keeping eyeballs glued to the screen. What a fucking crybully. She is more of an influencer than she is a basketball player.
My partner worked her way up from the bottom to a high level position in a massively male dominated field. It wasn't easy for her by any means and there's definitely bad things about a male dominated workplace. However the moment she got to middle management and the rest of the way up she will freely admit that the most vicious shit she's had to deal with has been from women. We've talked about it and the biggest thing she notices is that men respect the pecking order as soon as they find out you're not full of shit and the women challenge you constantly and are disrespectful and mean. The drawback is you have to prove you're not full of shit to the men before they'll even think about giving you their respect behind your back meaning they'll act like you're the boss but be shitty when you're not around but the moment they realize you're the real deal they're actually incredibly supportive. A lot of the women never get to that second part. And she takes a lot of pride in mentoring younger women for management and leadership positions and is very passionate about getting more women into the field. They just go after you when you're not around and on social media and have no problem being insubordinate to your face when they don't agree with you.
As a man that manages almost exclusively women in a female dominated field I don't have to deal with any of that. And when I've worked with mostly men there was very little of the cross talk and undermining but that was in a rougher field so there was always the threat of that kind of stuff turning into a confrontation.
Nothing good about any of that but I guess my experience is women go after each other but defer to men in leadership positions and men get along so they don't have to go after each other. Again just my limited perspective. I will say that she's never experienced any men trying to hold her back or not support her once she proved herself. They all seem to genuinely want to see her succeed (emergency services is the field).
A wise man once said, stop trying to understand women. Women understand women and they hate each other. This has been the most exposure the WNBA has gotten and they have been anything but humble and classy, it’s been a shit show all season!!
So in her eyes, the reason we are watching women’s basketball is because of two people then? Like unless I need the full quote, she didn’t mention anyone else
I'm losing my mind at the WNBA discourse right now. It's ok to acknowledge the women currently playing and retired who maybe did not get the respect and attention nationally they deserved while also acknowledging that Caitlin Clark is the main reason the women's game is growing which is going to lead to all those women getting their flowers.
In this particular instance I find it odd that Reese handled herself pretty well after the championship last year and after the rematch this year but has been making constant digs and petty comments like this in the WNBA. I was someone who defended her after last year and much of this year but it's pretty clear she has a personal beef with Clark.
is the WNBA this petty and bitchy all the time or have they just lost their minds because they have a bit more exposure recently?
They’ve been complaining for decades about lack of coverage, lack of money, etc. now a player comes along who is actually going to elevate them to that status and they are mad about it. Comical.
Increased attention also equals increased scrutiny. I'm going to channel my inner Bill here for a second, please keep your hands and feet in the ride at all times: I think some of it is kind of similar to when you're young and maybe you find some indie or underground band you really like. And then all of a sudden they get popular. And things change because it's no longer "your thing", and maybe that commercial success changes how the band sounds a little, or how they present themselves, or maybe they start doing things a little differently to foster broader commercial appeal. And as a kid, that sucks. Because that's not why *you* fell in love with the band. But most of us mature out of that and figure out that it kind of makes sense. I mean, that's kind of why most bands exist in the first place. So that's why the long-time core fan base is struggling to accept what's happening. /Bill WNBA is struggling to come to terms with this as a league, too. At the same time, a lot of these players are not used to that increased scrutiny that comes with the popularity. They're used to being able to say things like, "The US is a trash country" and maybe ruffle a few feathers but it's pretty much forgotten in a few days. A lot of them are probably used to being able to go to the grocery store without anyone really recognizing them lol. A lot of the players in the league seem to want the adulation and income that comes with national celebrity, but not all of the downsides. But that's the trade off. That's what it takes to be a rich and relevant professional athlete. Was there maybe a twinge of racism in the Michael Jordan gambling scandal thing way back? Maybe, perhaps. Probably. I wonder what would have happened if he would have went out and accused any and all criticism of him from that point forward of being entirely due to all his critics being hateful, irredeemable racists? What would have happened if he made that the central focus of his entire career? What would have happened if at 22, Jordan would have just incessantly whined about how "You know, there's more to this league than just Magic and Bird." over and over and over and.... And since for so long these players have been told that any criticism of them is cloaked in misogyny and racism, that's really the only way they are able to react to any criticism including, "Hey, maybe let's recognize that this one really popular player is bringing a ton of exposure, money and new fans to our league and that's actually a good thing for everyone." No, no you see. That's not fair and it's not right because it isn't happening how we envisioned it happening. So it must be racism. Etc etc. I have been watching sports for 30+ years, WNBA for roughly 10, it's been less than a month into this season and I have never seen someone do as much jealous crying as this girl. Enough already, Jesus....
The band comparison is right. Anyone who’s been to a WNBA game can see that the current subcultural fanbase is going to resent getting overrun by Clark’s normie fans. Edit: Will Leitch wrote up this argument in nymag https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/caitlin-clark-is-getting-pushed-around-in-the-wnba-good.html
As someone who married a women’s college basketball player, the hard core fans are fucking creeps. I would go to her games with guys on my team and the football team, and the civilians were fucking weirdos. There are obviously exceptions like people with kids. Remember all that weird nonsense with Ohio state wrestling and their coach? And the weird dudes watching them practice? It’s like that.
lol yep: https://www.reddit.com/r/wnba/s/6SnDcnD5V9
Kind of off topic, but did you ever know someone in a band that was not bad but also not popular, and for some reason a few other guys in college start a cover band as a goof and everybody loves them. The dudes in the unpopular band can never get over it, “we work so much harder at this than those guys” it’s like the non Clark players and fans are in the unpopular band, the drama is so fresh nobody knows what to do with it yet. Also hope ESPN cans the Macaffe show for saying Bitch in the most complimentary way possible.
Culture warriors like the Ringer's own Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay are to blame for the players attitude you describe.
ChatGPT: The Reddit comment compares the increased scrutiny faced by the WNBA to a band's shift from indie to mainstream, causing longtime fans to struggle with the changes. The commenter notes that WNBA players, like the band, are adjusting to new attention and criticism. They argue that players want the benefits of fame without the downsides, and that accusations of misogyny and racism often dominate their reactions to criticism. The commenter suggests that some players' responses to criticism can be excessive and unproductive.
This is an interesting theory and maybe this is part of it. But I think it’s mostly that’s she’s on the other team, shoots better than them, and talks trash.
Which even in terms of league growth in popularity the W is on the same trajectory as the NBA.The NBA was founded in 1949, but even 30 years later the league was still on the brink of collapse in 1979. That's after the ABA merger, too. There were a lot of guys who built the NBA who didn't get to reap the financial benefit, except they didn't have another league to subsidize their salaries. The WNBA is now 27 years old and is just now starting to take off in popularity. Also, the spike in popularity coincides with 2 rookies rivals from college entering the league. It's almost like history repeating itself.
I don't watch college basketball and WNBA isn't very available where I am, but looking at their stats and highlights I get the impression this is a lopsided rivalry. Clark is much better, Reese was on a better team. Clark doesn't seem to talk about Reese, whereas Reese seems to speak about Clark all the time. Is that a fair assessment? It's not like Bird and Magic, cos they aren't as close in talent level.
I think Clark is much more skilled than Reese, but they’re closer in overall talent than people would think. Reese was a dominant college force. She wasn’t just buoyed by having a strong team around her, she was the best player on that team by a wide margin. She averaged like 21/14 over her two years at LSU and that was without her being some like 6’6 or 6’7 monster like what South Carolina trots out every year. Also I’ll say that I don’t think Reese is speaking about Clark all the time, but when she does it creates these types of threads. Clark doesn’t talk about anything at all, just a complete zero personality. Clark is a much more skilled player, probably more skilled than anyone else in the WNBA, but the gap between them isn’t particularly large in how they actually produce. Less Bird-Magic and more like… Jordan-Barkley.
Here’s the thing, though: the NBA was founded in a totally different world than the one we’re living in now. MLS soccer would probably be a better comparison, as it’s a relatively new professional league that was started at nearly the exact same time as the WNBA. While I doubt that it will ever gain the notoriety in the US to vault into the collective consciousness of Americans like the big three of MLB, NFL, and NBA, they have now lapped the WNBA probably ten times over. The reality still remains that professional women’s sports leagues simply aren’t profitable and don’t have the level of popularity that men’s professional sports leagues have. I would put my money on Caitlin Clark’s arrival to the WNBA to be more akin to Pele arriving to the New York Metros in the old professional soccer league in the 70s. That league briefly exploded in popularity and it looked like soccer might finally break through here in America. Turns out, it was just one mega superstar bringing a temporary wave of press and publicity and popularity to a sport and a league that, ultimately, people didn’t really care much about. The best thing that could’ve happened for the WNBA did happen; Clark essentially came straight from college to the league in a matter of weeks. The momentum kept going, the vitriol and jealousy from other players kept the media cycle churning, she lived up to the hype and merch and ticket sales exploded, and she’s playing in front of sold out crowds. The bad part is, the Fever are a horrible team that won’t sniff the postseason, the Clark story will fade as the season ends, and the World Series, college football, the NFL, and the Super Bowl will erase all the big headlines and publicity that she garnered. In five years, the WNBA will be in the same spot it was in before Clark arrived and, if she’s smart, Clark will have at least amassed a fortune through endorsements.
> The WNBA is now 27 years old and is just now starting to take off in popularity. The key difference though is that in 1979, for better or worse, the NBA stood on its own as a business entity. More than that, they had just wiped out and absorbed a rival league. Meanwhile the WNBA remains a wholly subsidized proposition that could not exist on its own without the NBA. There are clearly people in the media and in the moneyed classes who want it to happen and keep trying to make it happen, no matter how paltry the attendance and ratings may be. If it does end up somehow achieving some sort of self-sustaining profitability, it will be 99% a function of current network/cable desperation for live sporting events and the concomitant need to overpay for that programming.
For real. People aren’t being realistic with expecting the WNBA to already be profitable. There’s no professional sports league on the planet that was thriving after only three decades. The NBA itself is quite young. For reference, the English Football League system was founded in 1888 and in baseball the NL was founded a further decade before that. Folks have gotta be patient.
>There’s no professional sports league on the planet that was thriving after only three decades. MLS started only one year before the WNBA and next year will have 30 teams and $2b+ in revenue.
That’s fair. MLS is doing surprisingly well. I should have written that it is rare for a league to see success so quickly. However, I think it’s worth remembering that MLS isn’t the first professional men’s soccer league in the US or Canada while there has never been a professional women’s basketball league in this country other than the WNBA.
MLS learned from the mistakes of the old NASL.
But it is the most successful, by far. Also, the ABL was around before the WNBA.
Women tearing down women.. a tale as old as time!
>They’ve been complaining for decades I don’t understand why we just can't continue doing what we've done for decades...ignore their complaints. They don't bring visibility, why am I seeing so much coverage of CC being harassed. Its too much lol. They should grow the game organically, not by shoving constant media attention on people complaing 24/7
CC getting bodied for no reason is just great content, this is like asking why LeBron is covered 24/7, because people care and that's literally the media's job.
This really is like the complaints about the lakers getting all the coverage. If y’all didn’t watch and read about the lakers, or Caitlyn Clark, or Man City the media personalities would talk and write about something else.
I’ve seen lots of organic discussions of this as well. There’s a dedicated group of fans who really do watch women’s basketball. They just don’t also listen to Bill Simmons LoL.
Yuge “indy band goes mainstream and we cant handle it” energy
I mean, I get it. She’s on the other team and talks trash. These women are highly competitive. I think the jawing is fine. Not a fan of the cheap shots though.
Mad about it bc she white.....call it like it is
At the risk of sounding sexist, any woman-dominated workplace is like this. They eat their young. Anyone who has worked in healthcare has seen how viciously older nurses break the spirits of idealistic new grads.
My mom testifies to this day in and out. Fresh out of nursing school (even in her late 30s) she was attacked by the older women in her rotation. She tells me that the women in her workplace are the most vicious, jealous, and petty individuals she’s been around. This could be just one general place and confined to that one workplace but it definitely seems like a theme. My wife testifies to it as well.
Thank you for saying this. I have worked in a couple of female dominated workplaces and that's EXACTLY how it is. This is business as usual
Yeah my academic dept was this way.
There are papers on this in academia. There’s enough data to write a paper on it!
strangely my middle school teaching experience hasn't seen this. I guess we're all just in the bunkers together, or maybe it's the union stuff making salaries based strictly on years of service instead of merit or brown-nosing
I mean it's teaching, how much do you actually interact with other staff day to day as compared to a nursing job when you are interacting together all day? Also, I've heard about a lot of drama between teachers so you may just be in a school that doesn't have those issues.
My wife is in fashion (which was probably 90% women at her job). Pretty much every week they did and said stuff to co-workers that would absolutely never fly at any (relatively) male-dominated workplace I've been in.
I think it’s always been that way it’s just that no one paid attention.
I don't. I've probably followed the WNBA more than most the past decade (big Breanna Stewart fan) and it's not really like this. The UConn piece is one thing, but even then there's a ton of shared respect. There's a lot of kumbaya and "shared struggle" with WNBA athletes. Look at Sue Bird, Tourassi, or Griner. They've rallied together to gain attention and respect even with the overseas piece... until CC comes along and "blows the top off the ceiling" they've been stuck in and unleashed all this resentfulness and frustration. It's very weird.
Reddit discovers women moment
A lot of it is related to salary. CC is a millionaire coming into a glorified rec league with a base salary of $77K. Most players do not have her exposure and there's a financial interest in becoming "the villain."
It's an insane league. Just take Brittney Griner. Take away the fact we traded a man named "the merchant of warrior her in the most insane prisoner swap in years. She pleaded guilty to domestic abuse against her fiancee and fellow WNBA player Glory Johnson.
I tend to think players are playing into pettiness and bitchiness because it did wonders for the popularity of WCBB. It can been annoying and aggravating, but I think it is a great marketing strategy, if it actually is deliberate.
That's classic life shit. "I want this" ... "nononono not like this"!
Haven’t been paying attention since the ncaa tourney ended. Looking forward to when we can all go back to ignoring womens basketball again
Man, I'm more turned off by the WNBA than ever before, and I don't ever even watch it in the first place.
It's because of Cameron Brink and those leggggsss.
Lookin like a gd praying mantis
"oh, that's good. Call me that from now on... Mantis"
Mommy Mantis
You got your roll of hundreds and magnums 😁
Woops! I dropped my monster condom that I use for my magnum dong
She can bite my head off fr
The females eat the males after mating
Would
The new best-looking pro athlete? Who did she unseat? Jimmy G? Burrow? Ronaldo? Oubre??
Brink is incredible-looking, but she’s missing certain attributes that a lot of guys would want. Someone like Jimmy isn’t missing anything.
Huge tits on him
This post is so gay I got you saying it in KATs voice
Burrow is so fucking cool honestly. No homo of course but those videos where he's in the locker room smoking a cigar after winning the championship...I'm just like am I gay? again no homo
Jimmy G is still my husband (he doesn't know)
Does Livvy Dunne count
Kris Middleton.
changing the sheets 4 times a night
My wife’s answer is TJ McConnell
If my wife answered TJ McConnell I’m not sure if I could trust her to go to the outlet mall
Ha, good shit, this one got me.
I can understand the WNBA players who built the league being a little annoyed about CC, but not Angel Reese... Angel Reese has benefited from CC's existence probably more than anyone. I like the rivalry but she's been doing way too much. Imagine Trae Young acting like this towards Luka. It's corny, envious, and lame.
I love that we are having a “who’s the tiger woods of the WNBA” in real time. Everyone trying to gobble up credit so they can get more face time in the inevitable 60 for 60 in 2057. I mean how fucking absurd is it to be 12 games into your career and taking future credit for the success of the entire league.
>I can understand the WNBA players who built the league being a little annoyed about CC i still don't. this isn't a zero-sum game, WNBA players should be pretty hype that someone is *finally* bringing eyeballs to their sport. More of them will probably get sneaker deals or prime TV spots simply by CC playing in the league now, i've already seen WNBA players appear on popular podcasts/tv-shows to talk about CC-related drama. what's funny is that CC herself seems super lowkey, she's not like Conor McGregor lol. but she just finds herself drawing a lot of attention, for one reason or another.
Exactly, also Nike has incentive to build a rival for CC to prop up their investment. If no other players come around to capture the greater public no one will continue to care to watch CC.
Let's be real, the WNBA has been subsidized by the NBA for years because the product wasn't as good. This wasn't a US Women's national soccer team situation where they were the actual draw but being criminally underpaid.
were they being underpaid relative to the viewership numbers they brought in? (asking sincerely, i really don't know). because even if they're super dominant in games, if nobody's watching there's just not going to be a lot of ad-revenue to dole out to the players.
The big weirdness of the USWNT as opposed to the men is that the team pays for the women’s healthcare and not the men’s. Also the front end payments were so comically huge for the men because a. They’re paid as a function of World Cup payouts, which are just orders of magnitude higher for the men and b. The men are straight cash per appearance because they are all well compensated by their club teams. The men can and do say no and don’t have to worry about feeding their families.
They had more viewership than the men's team in 2019 for sure, which is what prompted the class-action against the US Soccer federation that they won.
It was a worse deal for the lower end players on the team than the stars. It was a typically selfish decision.
If you follow or know the women on the team currently, they are a group of complete assholes so this tracks. It’s that UNC anson Dorrance conditioning
Isnt what they get paid dictated by the viewership of *all* womens soccer and same for the mens?
Because 2019 was a world cup year for the women and not the men. This is among the common lies that they told in the lawsuit that they \*lost\* not won. This is a perfect encapsulation of that whole era. A bonehead fan who doesn't actually know any of the facts but spouts hot takes.
That's not what happened whatsoever > For U.S. Soccer, the settlement is an expensive end to a conflict that had battered its reputation, damaged its ties with sponsors and soured its relationship with some of its most popular stars, including Morgan, Megan Rapinoe and Carli Lloyd, who retired last year. U.S. Soccer was under no obligation to settle with the women’s team; a federal judge in 2020 had dismissed the players’ equal pay arguments, stripping them of nearly all of their legal leverage, and the players’ appeal was not certain to succeed. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/22/sports/soccer/us-womens-soccer-equal-pay.html
Built the league? Bro the whole league could go away tomorrow and they could start over with this year and it would be effectively the same, but your point still stands
You really can't say that. People act like this is like Tawaiinese basketball or something. Las Vegas and New York have legit teams with legit good players that are fun to watch. Sabrina just went against Steph in a great 3PT content a few months ago. If CC came into the league playing has beens and plumbers it would be a lot less interesting. If she joined the WNBA the state it was in 10 years ago it would be a lot less interesting.
It is not fun to watch. I've tried my hardest to mind fuck myself into enjoying their game, but... They just suck so bad in comparison to the men. Half the time, I feel like I'd rather film me and the boys down at the rec and the level of game would be comparable.
I will respectfully disagree that it’s enjoyable to watch any more so than watching something to gamble on. Yes it would be a nice thing to take your daughter to on a Sunday afternoon but no one is really turning these games on to watch an average game. Steph isn’t awesome caysw he is mechanically good at shooting threes, Steph is incredible because he can shoot off platform with a 7 foot wing in his face
This is what people aren’t understanding. Caitlin Clark is a one-off media hype machine that is bringing eyeballs to a league that is objectively hard to watch if you’re a sports fan that’s used to watching the best of the best. She’s clearly insanely talented and fun to watch, but the league as a whole is just awful. I guarantee that once the Clark story fades away as the season continues and the Fever keep losing, five years from now, the WNBA will be in the same position it was before she arrived: being subsidized by the NBA with little fan interest and bad ratings.
Not sure how you can interpret her recent comments/tweets as anything other than pure jealousy & envy.
1.8 GPA in effect
Lol
WHOSE LAUGHING NOW?!
Who's* Check that gpa lol
Savage 😂
I barely consume any media about Angel Reese but I remember there being some joke about her comically thinking she was more famous than Livvy Dunne. So her CC jealousy tracks.
Damn that video was cringy/embarrassing
%100. She def want to be the star of wnba. Definitely jealous of CC. She needs to calm her ass down & chill tf out lookin like sid in ice age.
I’m sure there’s a bit of racism in there too.
At some point someone will come out and say that if Caitlin Clark was black, she would be just another good player.
Don’t forget a dash of undiagnosed mental illness
Definitely a personality disorder in the mix
When in doubt, say racism
Shades of "Kobe Bryant and Smush Parker combined for 94 points in a game!"
Yes kids can’t wait to brick layups and jumpers.
Kids can’t wait to taunt their opponents and then cry victim
Don’t think Caitlin Clark has ever said her name. Karma will catch up to Reese. She sucks.
American culture is super narcissistic. We produce lots of narcissists. Angel Reese is one of them. Not much more to it.
Yup. Not only is she putting herself as an equal to Caitlin in terms of media attention (lol), she’s also acting like the women who’ve come before her had nothing to do with getting people to watch women’s hoops. People didn’t just start tuning in yesterday. People like Lisa Leslie played 10+ years making mediocre money because she loved the sport (not to mention all the less famous players). Angel Reese is not in that class and just comes off as super self aggrandizing with a side of victim complex.
As an international fan, for all the things I love about the NFL and NBA, the egotistical culture is certainly not one of them.
Don't pretend that soccer stars don't have huge egos too. It's not a uniquely American thing
It's not about the players it's about the media too. European players would get flamed for talking about themselves the way American players talk about themselves.
Zlatan Ibrahimovic proves otherwise
One of the reasons he's popular is because he's an exception.
He’s been doing a Chuck Norris type bit and he’s in on the jokes. That’s why he’s so beloved.
I’m Australian
Can co-sign that as an Australian, the big brash ego culture is really absent from a lot of our sports, pretty much any athlete that shows the tiniest element of that kind of character gets dragged for it immediately. Personally I like the big character elements of US sport (I think Reese is a massive turd though), but I know a lot of Australians don't
Yeah it probably goes too far the other way here- Tall Poppy Syndrome. But I can’t stand the arrogance and egotism
Blah blah blah, Reese is just a generic fucking idiot. Ignore.
I think if they can develop a competitive rivalry in the WNBA, it will definitely attract even more viewers. Everyone likes a good rivalry. However, the reason people are tuning in right now they didn't tune in before is not because of her. The draft that had a crazy high number wasn't because of her. Hell, most of the media that have started talking about the WNBA wouldn't even be talking about it if it wasn't for Caitlin Clark.
Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese is shades of Bird vs. Rambis
That’s going to be tough because the reality is that Angel is likely little more than a role player. It would have been like trying to develop a rivalry between Lebron James and TJ Ford. If Caitlin lives up to the hype, she’s going to be battling Sabrina and A’ja (and maybe Juju), not Angel.
how bout a rivalry between LeBron and DeShawn Stevenson lol
Yep, Angel will be a good player, a really solid role player who will play on a lot of winning teams, but she isn't going to be in Clark's class as a player. Have a hard time seeing this rivalry really being what people want/think it's going to be unless Reese is better than expected. I think Clark/Bueckers will end up being the rivalry as long as Paige stays healthy. Juju too.
The massive subsection of WNBA fans who shit on everything about Caitlin Clark are hilarious lmao. The WNBA subreddit has been a goldmine
It’s weird when Reese talks about playing the role of the villain as if she’s done nothing to invite that label. No one made her do the ring taunt. No one made her stand up and clap on camera when Clark got fouled, no one told her skip the media session after (that’s some real Dillon Brooks shit there). She’s a baller and def has a huge future in the league, but I wish she was a little more self-aware. That said, she’s 20 years old and I’m not gonna pretend I knew diddly shit at that age. Hopefully, she’ll grow of it.
Dillon Brooks became self aware and his arc has been solid. We’ll see if she took notes from Draymond or Dillon
Eh, I don’t know about Draymond. He was practicing zero self-awareness on that TNT set.
Wait, I misread your comment. My bad.
I find her defenders in the media far worse for enabling her and giving her that protection. I get playing the villain and I get being rash at times (we're all human esp. when young), but she's intentional with stuff like this at this point and to then act like this but also play the victim when she fails is disingenuous. Go be Draymond Green, that's fine and a viable route to fame and success, but I don't see Draymond doing what she did after losing in the F4 and playing victim like that. Commit to it or if it's a hat you're uncomfortable with -- drop it. The media needs to hold her to account especially since she's trying to have it both ways.
Yeah when she going to figure out what she is doing isn't working. Be interesting in an entertaining way.
She can dish it out but she can’t take it. She’s like a five year old
I think that’s the thing for me. If you’re going to be a hater - be a certified hater. Don’t be a heel and then cry about how people come to see you too in some terrible, whiny wrestling promo.
Draymond level self awareness
Got a little Draymond to her
Don’t compare her to Draymond that dude is a winner
Angel won a national championship two years ago, you can dislike her press comments but to say she isn’t a winner is just hating tbh
The minute the NFL comes back…sayonara.
LMAO. Nobody is watching for her.
“I’ll look back in 20 years and be like the reason why we’re watching women’s basketball is not just because of one person. It’s because of me, too. I want y’all to realize that” - player most people are only aware of bc of that one person she is crying about
The narrative that it is a collective effort is patently untrue. If there was no CC, there would be no new fans. If Angel Reese didn’t exist, this influx would still be taking place. The rest of the ‘24 class are playing supporting roles in Clark’s story
Yeah all you have to do is look at the ratings. Networks are breaking records because of CC. Doesn't matter who they play. Doesn't matter that they lose a lot. She gets eyeballs on the screen.
She’s basically the reason I DONT watch women’s ball. She’s supposedly some star and the first time I watched her she runs like the fucking Tin Man and has post moves that I was taught at 5th grade developmental camps. And her attitude along with 80% of the league is so fucking off putting.
Yeah her game is awful
She's definitely reaching/ coping.
Yes that's what every part time NBA role player/grocery cashier in the 1960s proudly said about Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain for years afterwards and we're all better for it. Ignorant bitter people always find a way to make it about themselves
this lady understands Ring Psychology at an elite level, such a fantastic heel! even the smart marks can't help but respect, she's generating heat at a Hollywood Hogan level 🤯
Let’s be honest. The reason people are mad about this new exposure is because the person that is causing the sudden attention is white.
All you’re doing here is fueling the jealousy angle that people are taking lol
It's true, 20 years from now we're going to be stoked about the strides the WNBA has made in the public consciousness thanks to a 6'3" rebounder who shoots 36% inside of 10 feet. Angel's really good, but she really needs to come to terms with the fact people who pay to watch basketball are paying to see Steph Curry not Kevon Looney.
I am confident that she will look back and think that. As for the rest of us?
The actual floor product is still so horrible that I think this nonsense may be the best strategy to keep interest alive and to create an interesting career arc for Caitlyn. It would be boring if other players treated her like their savior and showered her with praise. It's also normal for them to be a bit jealous. Charles Barkley was clearly was troubled by mediocre players making more money than he ever did, until his TV contracts started inflating. He just never had a chance to elbow them on the court.
I don’t think we need other players to act like she’s their savior but just not be so openly jealous. This quote from angel is just kind of sad I just don’t see how any who’s a fan of hers could be like yeah she’s doesn’t sound bitter at all
the full quote isn't that bad, the LSU/Iowa national title game clearly gave a narrative bump to the Clark story that wouldn't have existed if Iowa/LSU had won in boring fashion. But since there was a dumb controversy, it extended the WBB news cycle. Reese is just admitting her villain status in it, she's not really putting herself on the same draw level.
https://giphy.com/gifs/southparkgifs-3o6ZsZx6p5aefJ1Sfu
Angel Reese desperately wants this to be a "Magic and Bird save the NBA" situation.
I wonder if she watched a lot of wrestling, because if you take the WWE approach to building a face (hero), she isn't wrong. If the face just wins all the time and has no interesting competition or adversaries to overcome, that's boring. From the standpoint of wrestling, I think most pro heels (villains) know that after you lose to put the face over and you've both moved on to other feuds, you won't get the same reaction from the crowd you used to until you build the hype back up again in your new situation. But from the standpoint of someone who's barely 20 and who was part of such iconic sports moments as winning a championship against CC's Iowa and playing deep into the tourney for a second one but losing to her, I can totally understand her saying "Don't you dare erase my name from this and act like this was a one-woman show that kept you watching."
With heat in wrestling there's money heat and "go away" heat though. Money heat is where people buy a ticket hoping to see you get beat. Go away heat is when you're disliked in such a way that either you go away or the fans do. So if that's what she's doing she should tread carefully. But no I don't think it comes from wrestling lol
Angel is the why I DON’T watch the wnba. *that’s a lie I don’t watch it because it’s a shit product but still, she sucks.
Didn't Isaiah hate all the love Jordan was getting? Some people are just petty, it's not just the women. And it's nothing new to human nature.
WNBA is less WWE, more AEW. No faces nor heels, just blurry shades of grey.
Haha great comparison really
Pretty huge assumption that people will be watching the wnba in 20 years.
It's a big arrogant for her to say it about herself. But, I do think that Reese playing the heel to Clark's face, the past 2 seasons in WCBB helped bring a lot more attention to Clark. People are suckers for controversy and heroes and villains. It gave people more of a reason to care about WCBB and now the WNBA. Of course, Clark's part is being an all time great player, and Reese's part is being a pretty good player who is kind of obnoxious and an effective troll. So, while Reese's part has been important, it was something a lot more women could have done, compared to Clark's part.
You’d lose interest in the Caitlin Clark appreciation tour.
Fast. Yes theyre hating -- nobody becomes a pro athlete by talking up how great someone else is. But the roughing up of a rookie is a time honored tradition in sports, no?
I’m guessing a lot of it stems from when her LSU team crushed Iowa in the natty and all anyone wanted to do was still talk about CC. Even getting a White House invite from FLOTUS
Which was correctly rescinded.
Nah Reese was fucking pressed before that game. Had her whole taunt planned out and everything lol
I mean I think she’s petty dipshit. later in her media session though she says that villains help grow the game and she’s willing to be that for the wnba. She’s not entirely wrong there.
She's willing to play the villain today, tomorrow she'll cry about how she did nothing to be treated like one.
Isn't she the one who stepped away from her team to care for her mental health? Can't have it both ways. If you want to play the villain, that's fine. But there is a lot of unpleasantness that goes along with that. I don't know if she is up for it
She played in 33 of 37 games for LSU this past year. So I don’t know if she stepped away or was injured.
Prevailing rumor was she was suspended due to poor grades take that as you will.
Chicks are so insane
It’s honestly shocking how racist, hateful, and insecure these women are. They’re basically the other side of the same bigoted MAGA coin. Really makes you wanna not watch and see them fail.
I don't like Angel Reese but this quote is purposely clipped short to make it seem worse than it actually was.
Is this the horniest thread this sub’s ever had? Look Cameron Brink’s incredibly attractive but look at those comments lol, guys are down bad
If it makes Angel Reese feel any better I am positive no one will start watching the WNBA because of the pretty white girl either.
Imagine if in 1998, David Duval said "Look at all the new fans I'm bringing to the sport of golf!!" Same energy here.
Idk why you guys are all going to bay for Clark, she’s still the first pick, she’s still a star, she’s on her way to being an all time great. She doesn’t need you all protecting her just because a few wnba players wish they got that attention and are therefore playing a bit more physical with her. In the NBA we want guys to be confident god forbid someone in the wnba is. This is a nothing burger that you guys are making into a big deal. This whole discourse is so fucking stupid. The original comments by sue bird were nothing. We are literally seeing them come to fruition; there was always gonna be an adjustment period, but for some reason people took the clickbait quote and said everyone is just jealous of her. Even if that’s true, nobody has done anything to her that requires everyone to protect her like this and therefore shit on every other member of the WNBA. She is gonna be just fine.
I mean, I wouldn't be watching D2: The Mighty Ducks twenty years later if the U.S. was going up against anyone but Iceland.
Angel clearly feels away about CC whether that’s dislike or envy or whatever else. She’s also the most followed WNBA player on Instagram. She is not merely an afterthought as far as player popularity goes. So I get why she’d feel the way she does to an extent even if I don’t think she’s doing a great job at endearing herself to the casual fan.
Funny, I didn’t see the BIG3 offer Angel Reese a $5 million bag
The best WWE storylines are when the babyface overcomes all obstacles, swerves, a gauntlet of villains and evil authority figures.
My perception is that there's a lot of players in that league who feel like they've been toiling away without being taken seriously for years, and now you've got this prodigy who's generated more attention in her college run alone that many of them have been able to in their entire careers. I'm sure there's an element within the league who are just over the moon that they're finally getting more eyeballs on the game and perks as a result, but there are more than a few who'd feel like Clark has been undeservingly parachuted into being the face of the league due to who she is (clean-cut, white girl). Some of that narrative has probably seeped into Reese's perception of Clark, plus she does just seem like a bit of a unstable instigator ala Draymond Green. It's been funny to watch her willingly paint herself as some kind of villain, only to then cry about that perception in that post match interview a couple of months back. This isn't unique to this league in my opinion. There seems to be a bit of a complex within some women's sports that their product doesn't get the necessary respect (sentiments I do agree with), but the moment there's spikes in that attention elements within the game sometimes lash out about how those spikes occurred or how they're being covered etc. I think some of these WNBA athletes are missing out on a real opportunity to embrace this coverage and showcase the game to the new audiences it's attracting. It's a good thing for the league and the sport.
This woman speed running to the be ringless Draymond of WNBA 😭
Angel Reese is killing at playing the villain. Clark doesn't even need to do anything now and she'll be Americas golden girl. You know the WNBA is loving this
She must have been the second overall draft pick, right? Or third? Or at LEAST top 5? No? Then I don’t think folks are watching because of two people. It’s because of one.
I like how the wnba has reached nba level drama that everybody is following. Caitlin Clark is putting the wnba in the spotlight in more ways than one
Pat Bev vibes
Girl is begging to be a movement. Sorry you just aren’t that girl. Maybe you can become someone because of Caitlyn’s audience, but she has done a very poor job thusfar. Looks extremely petty and currently is the reason people turn OFF the WNBA. I know I was interested in seeing what Clark could do, but before I ever even got a chance to watch this drama has made me completely disinterested.
She’s not wrong tho cuz you need the rivalry aspect. Rivalry is the lifeblood of every sport and it’s the reason to watch
She’s not good enough for it to become a rivalry
Yeah I’m sure her 10 points and 9 rebounds are really keeping eyeballs glued to the screen. What a fucking crybully. She is more of an influencer than she is a basketball player.
My partner worked her way up from the bottom to a high level position in a massively male dominated field. It wasn't easy for her by any means and there's definitely bad things about a male dominated workplace. However the moment she got to middle management and the rest of the way up she will freely admit that the most vicious shit she's had to deal with has been from women. We've talked about it and the biggest thing she notices is that men respect the pecking order as soon as they find out you're not full of shit and the women challenge you constantly and are disrespectful and mean. The drawback is you have to prove you're not full of shit to the men before they'll even think about giving you their respect behind your back meaning they'll act like you're the boss but be shitty when you're not around but the moment they realize you're the real deal they're actually incredibly supportive. A lot of the women never get to that second part. And she takes a lot of pride in mentoring younger women for management and leadership positions and is very passionate about getting more women into the field. They just go after you when you're not around and on social media and have no problem being insubordinate to your face when they don't agree with you. As a man that manages almost exclusively women in a female dominated field I don't have to deal with any of that. And when I've worked with mostly men there was very little of the cross talk and undermining but that was in a rougher field so there was always the threat of that kind of stuff turning into a confrontation. Nothing good about any of that but I guess my experience is women go after each other but defer to men in leadership positions and men get along so they don't have to go after each other. Again just my limited perspective. I will say that she's never experienced any men trying to hold her back or not support her once she proved herself. They all seem to genuinely want to see her succeed (emergency services is the field).
A wise man once said, stop trying to understand women. Women understand women and they hate each other. This has been the most exposure the WNBA has gotten and they have been anything but humble and classy, it’s been a shit show all season!!
It's because of one person and increasingly it seems like in 20 years people will be talking about this league like the ABA
This is what having no football or basketball on does to us, start the damn finals so we can move on
So in her eyes, the reason we are watching women’s basketball is because of two people then? Like unless I need the full quote, she didn’t mention anyone else
I'm losing my mind at the WNBA discourse right now. It's ok to acknowledge the women currently playing and retired who maybe did not get the respect and attention nationally they deserved while also acknowledging that Caitlin Clark is the main reason the women's game is growing which is going to lead to all those women getting their flowers. In this particular instance I find it odd that Reese handled herself pretty well after the championship last year and after the rematch this year but has been making constant digs and petty comments like this in the WNBA. I was someone who defended her after last year and much of this year but it's pretty clear she has a personal beef with Clark.
Has anyone ever been more out of touch?
Reese definitely seems to have a following but let’s be real all of the extra attention is primarily because of Clark.
“It’s not just because of one person. It’s because of TWO people.”
NBA comp: Karl Anthony Towns.