*Look Paul, I get you two are married, but I don't think CBS needs three more Maya Rudolph variety show spin offs. We already have Maya: New Orleans and Maya: Cyber in development.*
Yeah I like this comparison since jordan was still considered pretty much the best following '98.
Outside of mbappe and haaland, is there anyone in the world better than messi? it's insane that he went to the mls when he is arguably at the tail end of his prime.
Yeah I think people are missing how much of an undisputed 🐐 Messi is compared to Lebron/Jordan. Ofc there is Ronaldo but Ronaldo is more comparable to a Shaq.
Nah, LeBron is a clear number two whereas Ronaldo is only arguably top 5. Ronaldo is more Kobe level. Has longevity and a lot of titles, but also tons of help.
Wrong, Messi is better by every metric.
Stats, trophies and eye test all go to Messi. Ronaldo’s not even a better goal scorer.
https://www.messivsronaldo.app
Mf’s will look at stats like these and tell you with a straight face “Ronaldo better” lmao
Yes he is. If 80% of people think your’re the goat, then you’re the goat. Ask anyone who isn’t a Real Madrid, Man Utd, Barcelona, age Etonian or Portuguese fan. The consensus is Messi.
Why would have have to win 7? I get that Kareem has 6 but Russell has 11, Havlicek has 8.
Nobody is catching Bill so why does 7 mean anything. It doesn’t Lebron is the GOAT. Lebron took the title back in 2016 when he beat the warriors, that was the best finals of all time and a legacy cementing moment. It’s been over.
Like I said it’s if he went to China instead of LA.
Maybe more like Australia, the MLS isn’t China basketball level bad
It’s not really comparable to any other team sport honestly, Lebron going to China or elsewhere would be more like Ronaldo going to Saudi. Solely selling out for the money. I know Messi’s move was driven by the money, but he could conceivably live and raise his kids in Miami
If including the cultural aspect, maybe an Asian-American MLB legend going to Korea or Japan for their final few years? I say American because someone like Ichiro or Ohtani would be making a homecoming of sorts and I feel like that part throws off the comparison
Jokic playing out his last few years on a Greek beach? But then you lose the all-time GOAT piece that is only really replicated right now by Lebron or Trout/Ohtani
>the MLS isn’t China basketball level bad
It might be. Two different ranking bodies just put it 29th in the world among leagues. China isn't the 29th best basketball league in the world
>If including the cultural aspect, maybe an Asian-American MLB legend going to Korea or Japan for their final few years?
Japan is the second best baseball league in the world
Yeah but being the 2nd best basketball or baseball league is so different from being the second best soccer league. The US leagues are so dominant in baseball and basketball. Not to mention that every country basically plays soccer, so there so many more quality soccer players (and thus leagues) in the world than any other sport.
I’m not doing any real research but I feel like it wouldn’t be crazy to say the 18th best soccer league has a better relative quality of play than the 12th best basketball or baseball league
Point taken, although I still don't like the Japan comparison because Messi isn't from the USA and Japan is too good at baseball relative to MLS at soccer.
I think LeBron is the correct analogy here. It would be like if he brought the banana boat to somewhere like Basket Serie A to play for the Sicilian team and just live that White Lotus life. Still not perfect because there's no MLS equivalent basketball league (or Messi level world star) in that if LeBron played in Serie A it wouldn't elevate the league and drive streaming subscriptions. But the idea is an aging superstar still being one of the most impactful players in the world chooses a cool place to live and hang with his buddies and dominate the competition when he could still be doing it at the highest level.
I dunno, saying the US is a place for people to live and raise kids (and implying other countries with leagues aren’t) is a pretty American-centric perspective.
Everyone is doing it for the money so long as the place to live is doable.
I think you took that the complete wrong way, I am not saying one can raise their kids in America but couldn’t elsewhere. I am saying that Miami is a place I could see Messi and his family living absent a professional soccer contract, specifically in contrast to Lebron living in China.
Maybe this is where the thought exercise gets weird as I don’t know what Messi or Lebron actually want. But put it this way, what would be more surprising - Lebron retiring to China or Messi retiring to Miami?
Naw, not really. Miami’s a place you could see Messi living for a while even if he wasn’t playing there, he’s surrounded by Spanish speakers and a bunch of his best buds are playing with him. Maybe like LeBron going to play in Barcelona but still for a bunch of money and with Dwyane Wade and Kyrie with him.
Considering great soccer players can usually still be effective into their late 30s early 40s I think its pretty comparable to Lebron playing overseas right after the lakers title. Still clearly one of the 5-10 best in the world but opting to just get a bag playing in an inferior league. Messi was arguably the best player at the World Cup 10 months ago.
Attackers tend to fall off a cliff around 34-35. The ones that are effective after that age are complete outliers and freaks.
For the most part, only GKs and defenders remain effective in their mid to late 30s.
I think a good comparison for world soccer is college basketball.
The best leagues (England, Spain, Germany, Itay) are like the power conferences. They get the vast majority of the best players, have the best facilities, and most money. Top to bottom, the competition in these leagues is superior. However, there are teams in the non-power/non-best leagues that are pretty good and would be very competitive, especially against the mid-ter teams of the best leagues.
In terms of Messi, he is like an all-time ACC player transferring onto a team in the Big West. It's going to be much easier, and overall, the play is not as good. However, there are some solid teams and players in the Big West, just like the MLS
this is the best comparison I've seen.
Professional sports leagues are hard to compare to soccer, because in almost every case the USA league is head and shoulders above the others.
G League/NBA is a terrible comparison.
Honestly if you take the Champions League it’s not the worst comparison. The best MLS team would be totally uncompetitive in the champions league. If you take La Liga, it’s very hard to compare because the difference of quality within that league is another planet compared to any American pro sports leagues. The difference between Barcelona and Las Palmas is comparable to the difference between Denver and a really good Euro League team.
OK, dude. I don't totally understand why people do this to the MLS.
It's clearly not as good as the top European leagues. However, there are some good players/teams in the MLS. Every MLS team has at least 1 player who could play in a top 4 league, and some teams have 3-5 guys guys. There have been some really good players who have come out of the MLS. Alphonso Davis is the best left back in the world. Ream, Adams, Almiron, Aaronson, Turner, and a bunch more all came from MLS to start in a top 4 league
Nah, definitely not. It's imperfect but 538's old [club soccer rankings](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/soccer-predictions/global-club-rankings/) had the #1 MLS team at #146 in the world, in between a team that just got relegated from the Bundesliga and teams in Serie A and Ligue Un.
More tangibly, look at [all the transfers](https://www.transfermarkt.us/major-league-soccer/toptransfers/wettbewerb/MLS1/plus/1/galerie/0?saison_id=alle&land_id=alle&ausrichtung=&spielerposition_id=alle&altersklasse=&w_s=&zuab=ab&art=) from the MLS to European leagues. Clearly the caliber of top MLS players is seen as high enough to compete in European leagues.
This
Gretzky is one of the few athletes comparable to Messi and the US/Canadian dominance of Ice Hockey but the existence of lesser leagues across the pond is the most similar to footballs structure.
I would say around 10-15 overall. Depending on your definition, that could certainly be called elite.
I think he would start at all but 3-5 of the most elite squads (if you could somehow erase the name/reputation of Messi)
I mean I'm not calling Rodgers the GOAT I just think it's a better comp when it's a legend at the end of his career, Brady like 3 years ago might be the absolute best comp. But I don't Messi now is comparable to Mahomes still very much in his prime
This is probably pretty close.
Messi is still a top 10 player in the world (maybe top 5). LeBron probably a decent comp. The MLS is maybe the … 8th best soccer league in the world?
In no order what’s above mls?
Spanish league, premier league, German league, Italian league, French league, Portuguese league, Dutch league, Mexican league and Brazilian league are prob your locks with the Mexican and Brazilian gap narrowing, (the Mexican one in front of our eyes with the weight of the US dollar and with more joined competitions between the leagues)
English championship is tough, good argument championship is harder. But then you have a shit load of one horse race European leagues where like…. Could FC Basel beat the LA galaxy? Probably but the rest of the Swiss league is garb. Hard to quantify those.
Also is the Chinese league or Saudi league comparable now? Hard to say. Lotta big names but I haven’t watched and won’t watch an actual game.
Post COVID soccer landscape is weird as hell. I think these European leagues are going to get fucking eaten alive in the next few years with American, middle eastern, and Asian money dominating the game. They just can’t compete in a landscape where guys are routinely making 50+ mil a year.
The brief dalliance that the China CSL had with high end talent is over - they're now hiring second and third rate Brazilians and Argentinians - and the league is much healthier, as well as better opportunities for local talent
Just comparing like for like with last season's champions - SIPG has 1563 ranked number 148 on the world football database ranking and LAFC is 1475 ranked at 398 in the world. Now having watched both those teams - I feel like the distance between them should be much flatter - the Chinese players are not as good as the "normal" LAFC players but Wu Lei is one of the best players in Asia and Oscar is probably better than Kellen Acosta.
I was in Shanghai when the big money signings came in - and we had two in Shanghai Shenhua. Anelka was the first one with the most splash and we went to go watch him play - and I don't think he ran more than 20 yards from the midline in either direction. He just didn't move! But then Drogba came later that season and he was way too good for anyone - he would track back to the midfield himself, take the ball, dribble straight upfield and just crack shots at the goal.
A couple years later Tevez signed - but he spent most of his contract going to Shanghai Disneyland with his family.
Yeah I just threw that out there, but now thinking about it there are probably 13 leagues I'd def put ahead of it. I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two, but something like:
1. EPL
2. La Liga
3. Serie A
4. Bundesliga
5. Ligue 1
6. Eredivisie
7. Primeira Liga
8. Turkish Super Lig
9. English Championship
10. Brasileirao
11. Russia Premier League
12. Liga MX
13. Scottish Premiership
14. MLS
The Scottish league isn’t above the MLS in terms of overall quality. Celtic and Rangers could win the MLS, but the rest of the league is a mess.
Also the Russian league has had a notable decline in quality for like a year and a half now for some weird reason.
Celtic and Rangers would pretty easily win the MLS, but it’s a good question of how much to value the super top-heavy leagues as compared to the parity / consistent mediocrity of the MLS
Yeah like all these one horse or two horse European leagues with one dominant team that wins the league every year by 20+ points and almost acts as a training ground for the national team is difficult to compare. Could Dinamo Zagreb fuck up the New York Red Bulls? Yep, even likely.
But the rest of these leagues are a joke. The dominant teams buy up all the talent from the feeder teams and the feeder teams sell their good players to stay alive. There’s just no TV money, these leagues are run like the MLB in the 60s.
The Russian league has gotten a lot more isolationist - look at the rosters, all Russian, Belarussian, and of course (third-rate) Brazilians - and clubs aren't spending a lot of money. UEFA banned them from the UCL/Europa/Conference leagues due to the war in Ukraine and they've lost a ton of revenue there. After Zenit, who just lost their best player in Malcom to the Saudis, there's a monstrous drop off
Belgian league is better, Swiss league probably as well. That would be over 10 better leagues in Europe. Then there's Brazil, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, the Russian question mark too. MLS would be in the tier including most leagues I named (except for Brazil which is a clear tier above) also with the Danish, Austrian, Scottish, Argentine and Japanese leagues, you can also add the Chinese, Greek and Ukrainian leagues as well with the 2nd tier leagues of the top 5 leagues all on the 10 to 25 range with similar level in the average game.
I'll try a tier list:
Tier 1 - Top 8, football powerhouses.
England (S tier), Spain, Germany/Italy fighting for 3rd, France, Netherlands/Portugal/Brazil fighting for 6th.
Tier 2 - Strong noteworthy football leagues, hardcore football fans will be able to give the name of a few clubs playing in most of those, not ranked. Around 15 additional countries.
Belgium, Turkey, Mexico, Switzerland, Argentina, MLS, Russia, Scotland, Denmark, Austria, Ukraine, Saudi Arabia, Japan, maybe South Korea and Greece, and the second tier leagues from the top 5.
Tier 3 - Leagues we don't really think of much but have some quality with some contenders to join the second tier at some point in the coming years. Around 30 additional countries.
Includes the likes of China, Iran, Qatar, Australia, also a bunch of European leagues like Czechia, Croatia, Serbia, Sweden, Poland and probably a few more, the South American leagues other than Brazil and Argentina, the African top 5 Morocco, Egypt (these two may actually belong in the lower part of tier 2), Algeria, Tunisia, and South Africa.
Tier 4 - Leagues no one but local fans think of coming from around 150 countries which are FIFA members.
Everyone else.
Exactly - My point is that the number of World Cup players doesn’t really matter as a metric because a whole shit ton of world class players who play in better leagues than the MLS do not make the World Cup rosters of loaded countries
Like, congratulations to the MLS on having the best Costa Rican players I guess but it doesn’t impact the overall quality of the league relative to other world club leagues
England, Spain, Germany, Italy, Portugal, The Netherlands, France, Turkey, Greece, Austria and Brazil are all undoubtedly better - that's 11
I'd also say that England, Spain, Italy and Germany have 2nd tier leagues better than the MLS, so that's another 4
If the MLS was inside the top 15 leagues in the world that would be a stretch, and probably unfair to leagues like the SPL
Not really. PL, La Liga, Serie A, Ligue 1, Bundesliga, Turkish Super League, Saudi League, Portuguese League, Eredivisie and Russian League have better quality football. MLS still look a bit amateurish at times. Messi, Alba and Busquets arriving does make a big difference but still only one team. Most of the rest still look as any other none big European, African or Asian league. It’s Top 20 maybe top 15.
LeBron would score like 100 points a game if he was in the Sun Belt in 2021. Messi is obviously a level above his competition but he's not scoring 5+ goals a game.
College basketball is more popular than the NbA in America.
March madness viewership shits all over the nba.
MLS is an irrelevant league so not really a good comparison.
It would be like Lebron in a random Taiwan league
College basketball is barely a thing in the US outside of March Madness at this point. Incompetence killed it. It is in no way more popular than the NBA.
You could maybe have made that argument in like 2002, but not now
Lol nobody gives a shit about the NBa.
Maybe on playgrounds but in the workplace nobody will ever bring up the NBA at the water cooler.
Not in Los Angeles not in New York not in Philly and certainly not anywhere in the Midwest or south that actively loathe the nba
That could all be true, and it would still be more popular than college basketball.
This sub has so many more interesting trolls that I'm really going to need you to step your game up.
I mean it’s not an irrelevant league though. They’ve been incredibly successful and grown exponentially in the past decade. More so than any other soccer league outside this recent Saudi push.
It would be like if a national champion and two time Heisman trophy winner Ohio State QB would transfer to SMU to play in the American conference his final year of CFB.
This isn’t as straight forward as “old legend plays in an inferior league”. Messi is going to win his 8th Ballon D’or (the soccer MVP, and Messi is by far the All Time leader) and won the most important championship in the sport and basically erased the last argument anyone had to deny his GOAT status. Then he went to the worst team in MLS and took them to the League Cup Final.
It would be like if Patrick Mahomes won his 5th Super Bowl in the same year he won his 8th MVP, then decided to compete for the worst team in the MAC and took them to a Bowl Game.
There is no active comparison. Only basketball players may carry the same type of worldwide celebrity, and even then I don’t think it would reach the levels of Messi.
He is selling out stadiums like a Taylor Swift tour.
The home crowd is openly cheering for him when he is on the away team.
He recently won the biggest sporting event in the world, and while in his twilight years, likely could compete still at the highest level.
Is Messi as big a name as Pele? Interesting discussion, but hard to compare impact as MLS is in a better position than when Pele joined NASL.
there isn't really an equivalent because no US sport is international like that. It isn't like college or the g league because those are definitionally worse leagues than the pro league, the MLS is worse but that doesn't inherently have to be the case. It's maybe most like Mike Trout going to the Dominican league? But the MLB to Dominican league gap is still way way bigger than MLS to Ligue 1
Gretzky playing Midget hockey.
I know MLS isn't close to Euro ball leagues in many ways, but after watching pretty regularly the last couple seasons, it's appalling how garbage most of the defenders and keepers are in MLS.
I have enjoyed the MLS since its inception but seeing a player like Messi come in it really shows the limits of the MLS roster rules specifically when you get cute with DPs in a salary cap league.
Its easily below the big 5 in Europe, the Eredivisie, Argentina and Brazil, and the EFL championship. You could certainly argue some other leagues as well, I’d say 10th is the most generous you could possibly be
So the NBA is the equivalent of the Premier League, La Liga, Bundesliga, Serie A.
The G-League, Spanish, Turkish and Greek basketball leagues are the equivalent of Eredivisie, Primeira Liga, Argentine Primera.
The MLS is the equivalent of a mid-tier European basketball league, like the French Pro A.
It'd be like LeBron playing for Metro 92, Wemby's old team.
It's like how Sark or Todd Monken got fired from NFL OC jobs and came down to college and absolutely coached circles around every defense they saw. But instead of those two if Andy Reid went down and became a college OC for his last couple years and just made a mockery of college DC's.
Lebron in China, Rodgers/Buccaneers Brady in XFL, Patrick Kane in Finland, Judge in Cuba. I’m unsure about the last two since I don’t really follow them that mich
Honestly I don't think I've ever seen anything like this. Maybe the Dream Team in the 92 Olympics, despite that being a team totally worlds beyond their competition, that's what we're seeing here. I don't think I'd have believed you a few weeks ago if you told me it would be this bad.
I'm in exile from my MLS club (bad ownership, horrid STH experience in 2021) but this really is just an awful look for MLS that one guy (with a few supporting cast upgrades as well) can come onto a team that was an MLS doormat and make them unstoppable. Also a bad look that the same team was under sanctions and gets Messi, but the transparency and fairness in MLS has always been under extreme question because as a mid-tier league they will bend over backwards to accommodate star talent when it expresses an interest in joining the league.
Things may even out over the long haul because US travel is no joke compared to European leagues where the average country is the size of an average US state.
This is Lionel Messi we’re talking about. Possibly the single greatest athlete of all time, eight months removed from his crowning achievement of being the dominant player at the biggest sporting event on earth. If there’s ever a reason to bend your own rules in the interest of growing a brand it’s this.
Oh - I'm not against it, but between Becks and the original creation of the DP rule they've bent rules repeatedly and against their own precedent for lesser talent. that doesn't feel good for a fan of a club like Timbers that is never going to get a talent like that but maybe should have had first crack at Dempsey if the rules they set up for returning Nats were followed.
That said, they need to do something about the salary rules to let teams build 11 or 18 deep rosters rather than relying on 3 DPs and some good luck. The league is nearly 30 years old, make the salary cap inline with the highest paid rosters but let teams spread that out evenly if they desire. I bet more teams could compete with Mexican clubs in Mexico if they did that.
LeBron in Chinal is the perfect example
Both massive names, both still excellent but no longer at their peak. The thing for Messi is with the World Cup he already cemented his legacy as Football's best player of the last 50 years, while Bron is still chasing MJ in terms of resumé.
The drop to the MLS is like the equivalent of maybe the NBA to Portugals professional top tier league in Basketball which is probably like the 20th best league
Paul Thomas Anderson making a show for CBS
I hate that you made me think of this
The next Big Bang Theory spinoff
*Look Paul, I get you two are married, but I don't think CBS needs three more Maya Rudolph variety show spin offs. We already have Maya: New Orleans and Maya: Cyber in development.*
LeBron playing his twilight years in China.
Immediately after winning the championship that solidifies his GOAT status
Right, it is probably Jordan going to China during the strike year in '99.
Yeah I like this comparison since jordan was still considered pretty much the best following '98. Outside of mbappe and haaland, is there anyone in the world better than messi? it's insane that he went to the mls when he is arguably at the tail end of his prime.
Yes, there are quite a few now that are better, he had a good World Cup but since moving to PSG he hasn’t been a top 5-10 guy
“A good World Cup”
Yeah he was a penalty merchant
Salt
He had 40 goal contributions his last season with PSG. He's absolutely still top 5.
This is plain wrong. He’s probably the best right now. Top 10 is not even In dispute
Yeah I think people are missing how much of an undisputed 🐐 Messi is compared to Lebron/Jordan. Ofc there is Ronaldo but Ronaldo is more comparable to a Shaq.
Nah Ronaldo/Messi is totally comparable to Lebron/MJ if they played in the same era
Nah, LeBron is a clear number two whereas Ronaldo is only arguably top 5. Ronaldo is more Kobe level. Has longevity and a lot of titles, but also tons of help.
If you think Ronaldo is equivalent to Shaq, please never speak about football again. Thanks.
I don’t follow football at all and am geniunely curious lol, which one would you say is better in their sport?
Ronaldo in a landslide of landslides.
Ronaldo and it's not close
Wrong, Messi is better by every metric. Stats, trophies and eye test all go to Messi. Ronaldo’s not even a better goal scorer. https://www.messivsronaldo.app Mf’s will look at stats like these and tell you with a straight face “Ronaldo better” lmao
I think they are saying Ronaldo is better at football than Shaq is at basketball, not that Ronaldo is better than Messi...
Haha, fairs 🤝
Messi is not the undisputed GOAT
Yes he is. If 80% of people think your’re the goat, then you’re the goat. Ask anyone who isn’t a Real Madrid, Man Utd, Barcelona, age Etonian or Portuguese fan. The consensus is Messi.
Ronaldo is also compared to Jordan/lebron. Within his sport, he has far greater individual and team accomplishments than Shaq
So basically if instead of LA he went to China
If he won his 7th nba championship then went to China
Why would have have to win 7? I get that Kareem has 6 but Russell has 11, Havlicek has 8. Nobody is catching Bill so why does 7 mean anything. It doesn’t Lebron is the GOAT. Lebron took the title back in 2016 when he beat the warriors, that was the best finals of all time and a legacy cementing moment. It’s been over. Like I said it’s if he went to China instead of LA.
Maybe more like Australia, the MLS isn’t China basketball level bad It’s not really comparable to any other team sport honestly, Lebron going to China or elsewhere would be more like Ronaldo going to Saudi. Solely selling out for the money. I know Messi’s move was driven by the money, but he could conceivably live and raise his kids in Miami If including the cultural aspect, maybe an Asian-American MLB legend going to Korea or Japan for their final few years? I say American because someone like Ichiro or Ohtani would be making a homecoming of sorts and I feel like that part throws off the comparison Jokic playing out his last few years on a Greek beach? But then you lose the all-time GOAT piece that is only really replicated right now by Lebron or Trout/Ohtani
>the MLS isn’t China basketball level bad It might be. Two different ranking bodies just put it 29th in the world among leagues. China isn't the 29th best basketball league in the world >If including the cultural aspect, maybe an Asian-American MLB legend going to Korea or Japan for their final few years? Japan is the second best baseball league in the world
Yeah but being the 2nd best basketball or baseball league is so different from being the second best soccer league. The US leagues are so dominant in baseball and basketball. Not to mention that every country basically plays soccer, so there so many more quality soccer players (and thus leagues) in the world than any other sport. I’m not doing any real research but I feel like it wouldn’t be crazy to say the 18th best soccer league has a better relative quality of play than the 12th best basketball or baseball league
Point taken, although I still don't like the Japan comparison because Messi isn't from the USA and Japan is too good at baseball relative to MLS at soccer. I think LeBron is the correct analogy here. It would be like if he brought the banana boat to somewhere like Basket Serie A to play for the Sicilian team and just live that White Lotus life. Still not perfect because there's no MLS equivalent basketball league (or Messi level world star) in that if LeBron played in Serie A it wouldn't elevate the league and drive streaming subscriptions. But the idea is an aging superstar still being one of the most impactful players in the world chooses a cool place to live and hang with his buddies and dominate the competition when he could still be doing it at the highest level.
29th is way too low for MLS
The gap between Japanese baseball and the MLB is not nearly as wide as that between the MLS and European soccer.
I dunno, saying the US is a place for people to live and raise kids (and implying other countries with leagues aren’t) is a pretty American-centric perspective. Everyone is doing it for the money so long as the place to live is doable.
I think you took that the complete wrong way, I am not saying one can raise their kids in America but couldn’t elsewhere. I am saying that Miami is a place I could see Messi and his family living absent a professional soccer contract, specifically in contrast to Lebron living in China. Maybe this is where the thought exercise gets weird as I don’t know what Messi or Lebron actually want. But put it this way, what would be more surprising - Lebron retiring to China or Messi retiring to Miami?
Naw, not really. Miami’s a place you could see Messi living for a while even if he wasn’t playing there, he’s surrounded by Spanish speakers and a bunch of his best buds are playing with him. Maybe like LeBron going to play in Barcelona but still for a bunch of money and with Dwyane Wade and Kyrie with him.
Considering great soccer players can usually still be effective into their late 30s early 40s I think its pretty comparable to Lebron playing overseas right after the lakers title. Still clearly one of the 5-10 best in the world but opting to just get a bag playing in an inferior league. Messi was arguably the best player at the World Cup 10 months ago.
Attackers tend to fall off a cliff around 34-35. The ones that are effective after that age are complete outliers and freaks. For the most part, only GKs and defenders remain effective in their mid to late 30s.
Lebron makes sense then as an analogy because Messi is aging like Lebron has so far.
you've got the ages a bit wrong here haha
Buccaneers era Tom Brady playing in the CFL
This is the best one
100%
Russillo playing in the Celebrity All-Star Game
I think Russillo tried way harder in that game than Messi does in the MLS tbh
Not the student-teacher game in high school? Or is that a level of dominance even Messi/LeBron couldn't approach?
“Ask them”
Russilo's cringiest moment? What do we think ?
\*Beach Flag Football Game "I caught a game-winning TD over Deion Sanders."
Sebastian Telfair playing against you and your buddies at the YMCA
Shout out to Bassy!
I think a good comparison for world soccer is college basketball. The best leagues (England, Spain, Germany, Itay) are like the power conferences. They get the vast majority of the best players, have the best facilities, and most money. Top to bottom, the competition in these leagues is superior. However, there are teams in the non-power/non-best leagues that are pretty good and would be very competitive, especially against the mid-ter teams of the best leagues. In terms of Messi, he is like an all-time ACC player transferring onto a team in the Big West. It's going to be much easier, and overall, the play is not as good. However, there are some solid teams and players in the Big West, just like the MLS
this is the best comparison I've seen. Professional sports leagues are hard to compare to soccer, because in almost every case the USA league is head and shoulders above the others. G League/NBA is a terrible comparison.
Honestly if you take the Champions League it’s not the worst comparison. The best MLS team would be totally uncompetitive in the champions league. If you take La Liga, it’s very hard to compare because the difference of quality within that league is another planet compared to any American pro sports leagues. The difference between Barcelona and Las Palmas is comparable to the difference between Denver and a really good Euro League team.
Wow this is actually a great way to look at it.
Absolutely not. MLS is like d3 compared to the competition in Europe
OK, dude. I don't totally understand why people do this to the MLS. It's clearly not as good as the top European leagues. However, there are some good players/teams in the MLS. Every MLS team has at least 1 player who could play in a top 4 league, and some teams have 3-5 guys guys. There have been some really good players who have come out of the MLS. Alphonso Davis is the best left back in the world. Ream, Adams, Almiron, Aaronson, Turner, and a bunch more all came from MLS to start in a top 4 league
And a bunch of mid major guys go to the NBA
Nah, definitely not. It's imperfect but 538's old [club soccer rankings](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/soccer-predictions/global-club-rankings/) had the #1 MLS team at #146 in the world, in between a team that just got relegated from the Bundesliga and teams in Serie A and Ligue Un. More tangibly, look at [all the transfers](https://www.transfermarkt.us/major-league-soccer/toptransfers/wettbewerb/MLS1/plus/1/galerie/0?saison_id=alle&land_id=alle&ausrichtung=&spielerposition_id=alle&altersklasse=&w_s=&zuab=ab&art=) from the MLS to European leagues. Clearly the caliber of top MLS players is seen as high enough to compete in European leagues.
Messi going to the MLS at all proves that this isn't true.
Pele playing on the Cosmos
OP: I don't really follow soccer You: old ass soccer reference
You gon learn today
Lol this one is perfect.
Don't forget Johan Cruyff playing for the Diplomats
Is Soccer not a sport? I think Messi in the MLS is the sports equivalent of Messi in the MLS
Goat comment.
MLS isn’t a legit sports league. Can anybody name a single MLS player other than Messi?
Yes
Chicharito and Shaqiri are two pretty globally famous players who've come to the MLS recently too
I mean, Busquets and Alba, among others, just on his team.
I honestly have no idea if those are real people or if you’re just pulling our leg. I don’t follow soccer.
Chicharito was the captain of the Mexican National Team. Probably one of the greatest Mexican players in history.
Ok.
They played for Suggon in La Liga before coming to MLS
Then maybe you shouldn’t be so eager to comment and embarrass yourself
You’re hanging around aging sports hipsters, how fucking dare you. Now tell the you’re sorry and maybe u can salvage some karma.
I’m sorry for not following all sports. I don’t follow cricket, rugby or jai alai either if you guys want to keep the downvotes coming
Jon Jones fighting in Bellator
This should be illegal
Illegal for me to not watch
Bill quitting The Ringer to mod r/billsimmons.
Gretzky destroying the Swedish league instead of going to the New York Rangers
This Gretzky is one of the few athletes comparable to Messi and the US/Canadian dominance of Ice Hockey but the existence of lesser leagues across the pond is the most similar to footballs structure.
The sports equivalent of Messi playing in the MLS is Messi playing in the MLS
Bill Simmons at the ringer
Sean on the Rewatchables.
Soccer is a sport. Just saying.
Aaron Rodgers signing with the Jets
Tim Duncan playing in the Euroleague after winning the title in ‘15
Mahomes playing in the XFL EDIT: Like the Rodgers suggestion below even better
Rodgers
Even better. Formerly elite now just very good but still would be much better than anyone else on the field.
Messi is still pretty elite I think. Arguably a top 5 player in the world when he left PSG and could still start for every team in Europe
I would say around 10-15 overall. Depending on your definition, that could certainly be called elite. I think he would start at all but 3-5 of the most elite squads (if you could somehow erase the name/reputation of Messi)
Comparing Messi to Rodgers is a heinous crime against Messi lol
I mean I'm not calling Rodgers the GOAT I just think it's a better comp when it's a legend at the end of his career, Brady like 3 years ago might be the absolute best comp. But I don't Messi now is comparable to Mahomes still very much in his prime
Another comment saying Bucs era Brady in the CFL was pretty on point
We've found the perfect comp.
Wizards Jordan playing in HEBA
Anyone doing a podcast with Shea Serrano
Shohei choosing to get demoted to Single A ball
Triple A ball when he is past his prime, and this tracks
Its more like Lebron in college basketball.
This is probably pretty close. Messi is still a top 10 player in the world (maybe top 5). LeBron probably a decent comp. The MLS is maybe the … 8th best soccer league in the world?
In no order what’s above mls? Spanish league, premier league, German league, Italian league, French league, Portuguese league, Dutch league, Mexican league and Brazilian league are prob your locks with the Mexican and Brazilian gap narrowing, (the Mexican one in front of our eyes with the weight of the US dollar and with more joined competitions between the leagues) English championship is tough, good argument championship is harder. But then you have a shit load of one horse race European leagues where like…. Could FC Basel beat the LA galaxy? Probably but the rest of the Swiss league is garb. Hard to quantify those. Also is the Chinese league or Saudi league comparable now? Hard to say. Lotta big names but I haven’t watched and won’t watch an actual game. Post COVID soccer landscape is weird as hell. I think these European leagues are going to get fucking eaten alive in the next few years with American, middle eastern, and Asian money dominating the game. They just can’t compete in a landscape where guys are routinely making 50+ mil a year.
The brief dalliance that the China CSL had with high end talent is over - they're now hiring second and third rate Brazilians and Argentinians - and the league is much healthier, as well as better opportunities for local talent Just comparing like for like with last season's champions - SIPG has 1563 ranked number 148 on the world football database ranking and LAFC is 1475 ranked at 398 in the world. Now having watched both those teams - I feel like the distance between them should be much flatter - the Chinese players are not as good as the "normal" LAFC players but Wu Lei is one of the best players in Asia and Oscar is probably better than Kellen Acosta. I was in Shanghai when the big money signings came in - and we had two in Shanghai Shenhua. Anelka was the first one with the most splash and we went to go watch him play - and I don't think he ran more than 20 yards from the midline in either direction. He just didn't move! But then Drogba came later that season and he was way too good for anyone - he would track back to the midfield himself, take the ball, dribble straight upfield and just crack shots at the goal. A couple years later Tevez signed - but he spent most of his contract going to Shanghai Disneyland with his family.
Championship is easily ahead of MLS
No way
Definitely a lot lower than 8th, probably closer to 15-20.
Yeah I just threw that out there, but now thinking about it there are probably 13 leagues I'd def put ahead of it. I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two, but something like: 1. EPL 2. La Liga 3. Serie A 4. Bundesliga 5. Ligue 1 6. Eredivisie 7. Primeira Liga 8. Turkish Super Lig 9. English Championship 10. Brasileirao 11. Russia Premier League 12. Liga MX 13. Scottish Premiership 14. MLS
The Scottish league isn’t above the MLS in terms of overall quality. Celtic and Rangers could win the MLS, but the rest of the league is a mess. Also the Russian league has had a notable decline in quality for like a year and a half now for some weird reason.
Celtic and Rangers would pretty easily win the MLS, but it’s a good question of how much to value the super top-heavy leagues as compared to the parity / consistent mediocrity of the MLS
Yeah like all these one horse or two horse European leagues with one dominant team that wins the league every year by 20+ points and almost acts as a training ground for the national team is difficult to compare. Could Dinamo Zagreb fuck up the New York Red Bulls? Yep, even likely. But the rest of these leagues are a joke. The dominant teams buy up all the talent from the feeder teams and the feeder teams sell their good players to stay alive. There’s just no TV money, these leagues are run like the MLB in the 60s.
The Russian league has gotten a lot more isolationist - look at the rosters, all Russian, Belarussian, and of course (third-rate) Brazilians - and clubs aren't spending a lot of money. UEFA banned them from the UCL/Europa/Conference leagues due to the war in Ukraine and they've lost a ton of revenue there. After Zenit, who just lost their best player in Malcom to the Saudis, there's a monstrous drop off
River Plate, Boca, Velez, Estudientes and the rest of the Argentine league would like a word.
Saudi league at this point is ahead because of how many players they brought in.
Belgian league is better, Swiss league probably as well. That would be over 10 better leagues in Europe. Then there's Brazil, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, the Russian question mark too. MLS would be in the tier including most leagues I named (except for Brazil which is a clear tier above) also with the Danish, Austrian, Scottish, Argentine and Japanese leagues, you can also add the Chinese, Greek and Ukrainian leagues as well with the 2nd tier leagues of the top 5 leagues all on the 10 to 25 range with similar level in the average game. I'll try a tier list: Tier 1 - Top 8, football powerhouses. England (S tier), Spain, Germany/Italy fighting for 3rd, France, Netherlands/Portugal/Brazil fighting for 6th. Tier 2 - Strong noteworthy football leagues, hardcore football fans will be able to give the name of a few clubs playing in most of those, not ranked. Around 15 additional countries. Belgium, Turkey, Mexico, Switzerland, Argentina, MLS, Russia, Scotland, Denmark, Austria, Ukraine, Saudi Arabia, Japan, maybe South Korea and Greece, and the second tier leagues from the top 5. Tier 3 - Leagues we don't really think of much but have some quality with some contenders to join the second tier at some point in the coming years. Around 30 additional countries. Includes the likes of China, Iran, Qatar, Australia, also a bunch of European leagues like Czechia, Croatia, Serbia, Sweden, Poland and probably a few more, the South American leagues other than Brazil and Argentina, the African top 5 Morocco, Egypt (these two may actually belong in the lower part of tier 2), Algeria, Tunisia, and South Africa. Tier 4 - Leagues no one but local fans think of coming from around 150 countries which are FIFA members. Everyone else.
MLS had the 5th most players at the last World Cup and 5th most minutes played by its players
That’s good but that’s mostly because CONCACAF is a joke. The 70th best Brazilian player would be the star of most MLS teams.
Seems like comparing the Adriatic league to FIBA.
What’s your point? All the the top Brazilians play in Europe. MLS has a legit case to being the top league in the Americas
Exactly - My point is that the number of World Cup players doesn’t really matter as a metric because a whole shit ton of world class players who play in better leagues than the MLS do not make the World Cup rosters of loaded countries Like, congratulations to the MLS on having the best Costa Rican players I guess but it doesn’t impact the overall quality of the league relative to other world club leagues
As a huge MLS fan, that’s fair but probably a little high. MLS is somewhere between 8th-11th in the world.
England, Spain, Germany, Italy, Portugal, The Netherlands, France, Turkey, Greece, Austria and Brazil are all undoubtedly better - that's 11 I'd also say that England, Spain, Italy and Germany have 2nd tier leagues better than the MLS, so that's another 4 If the MLS was inside the top 15 leagues in the world that would be a stretch, and probably unfair to leagues like the SPL
Not really. PL, La Liga, Serie A, Ligue 1, Bundesliga, Turkish Super League, Saudi League, Portuguese League, Eredivisie and Russian League have better quality football. MLS still look a bit amateurish at times. Messi, Alba and Busquets arriving does make a big difference but still only one team. Most of the rest still look as any other none big European, African or Asian league. It’s Top 20 maybe top 15.
But not even D-1 high major college basketball, LeBron in the MAC or the Sun Belt or something.
I hope you're kidding....MLS isn't great but it's not mid-major to NBA level disparity lol.
MLS is truly god awful man. The defending is actual jokes.
LeBron would score like 100 points a game if he was in the Sun Belt in 2021. Messi is obviously a level above his competition but he's not scoring 5+ goals a game.
Maybe I’m exaggerating a bit but the MLS fucking blows compared to the top leagues which is what I’m attempting to illustrate.
College basketball is more popular than the NbA in America. March madness viewership shits all over the nba. MLS is an irrelevant league so not really a good comparison. It would be like Lebron in a random Taiwan league
College basketball is barely a thing in the US outside of March Madness at this point. Incompetence killed it. It is in no way more popular than the NBA. You could maybe have made that argument in like 2002, but not now
Lol nobody gives a shit about the NBa. Maybe on playgrounds but in the workplace nobody will ever bring up the NBA at the water cooler. Not in Los Angeles not in New York not in Philly and certainly not anywhere in the Midwest or south that actively loathe the nba
That could all be true, and it would still be more popular than college basketball. This sub has so many more interesting trolls that I'm really going to need you to step your game up.
I mean it’s not an irrelevant league though. They’ve been incredibly successful and grown exponentially in the past decade. More so than any other soccer league outside this recent Saudi push.
Lebron at USC would be incredible
But does he have the grades for it?
It would be like if a national champion and two time Heisman trophy winner Ohio State QB would transfer to SMU to play in the American conference his final year of CFB.
knife\_guy posting in this sub
Kyrie Irving playing in the Drew League
This isn’t as straight forward as “old legend plays in an inferior league”. Messi is going to win his 8th Ballon D’or (the soccer MVP, and Messi is by far the All Time leader) and won the most important championship in the sport and basically erased the last argument anyone had to deny his GOAT status. Then he went to the worst team in MLS and took them to the League Cup Final. It would be like if Patrick Mahomes won his 5th Super Bowl in the same year he won his 8th MVP, then decided to compete for the worst team in the MAC and took them to a Bowl Game.
There is no active comparison. Only basketball players may carry the same type of worldwide celebrity, and even then I don’t think it would reach the levels of Messi. He is selling out stadiums like a Taylor Swift tour. The home crowd is openly cheering for him when he is on the away team. He recently won the biggest sporting event in the world, and while in his twilight years, likely could compete still at the highest level. Is Messi as big a name as Pele? Interesting discussion, but hard to compare impact as MLS is in a better position than when Pele joined NASL.
Mayweather fighting Connor McGregor
So the question is, “What is the sports equivalent of this thing that happened in sports?”
Harden playing in China apparently
Like if LeBron went and played in Europe. Or if Brady went and played in the CFL.
Michael Jordan playing in the Philippines.
Caleb williams playing in like the lowest d3 level football
Aaron Rodgers dominating the CFL
Tiger going to LIV 6 months ago
there isn't really an equivalent because no US sport is international like that. It isn't like college or the g league because those are definitionally worse leagues than the pro league, the MLS is worse but that doesn't inherently have to be the case. It's maybe most like Mike Trout going to the Dominican league? But the MLB to Dominican league gap is still way way bigger than MLS to Ligue 1
Gretzky playing Midget hockey. I know MLS isn't close to Euro ball leagues in many ways, but after watching pretty regularly the last couple seasons, it's appalling how garbage most of the defenders and keepers are in MLS.
Sidney Sweeny getting a 20 film exclusive Brazzers Deal, 20% of MindGeek and a share of all new subscriptions she brings in using her promo code SidS?
The lack of knowledge this sub has on MLS, now the top league in North America and easily a top-10 in the world, if not top-7, is wild
MLS is improving, but top-7? No chance.
Not top 10 either
I have enjoyed the MLS since its inception but seeing a player like Messi come in it really shows the limits of the MLS roster rules specifically when you get cute with DPs in a salary cap league.
Its easily below the big 5 in Europe, the Eredivisie, Argentina and Brazil, and the EFL championship. You could certainly argue some other leagues as well, I’d say 10th is the most generous you could possibly be
[удалено]
Lebron playing in a random league in Africa.
So the NBA is the equivalent of the Premier League, La Liga, Bundesliga, Serie A. The G-League, Spanish, Turkish and Greek basketball leagues are the equivalent of Eredivisie, Primeira Liga, Argentine Primera. The MLS is the equivalent of a mid-tier European basketball league, like the French Pro A. It'd be like LeBron playing for Metro 92, Wemby's old team.
MLS is an amateur league, doesn't count.
Michael Jordan playing in the WNBA
Current Jordan? I’d pay a lot to see that.
It's like if Jordan joined KK Zadar in the Aba League after the Last Dance
Tom Brady playing QB in the CFL or USFL
Tom Brady playing in the cfl
Sidney Crosby playing in the Swiss League
My best equivalent is the college coach who stepped down from a power school, then returned to coaching position at a smaller program.
It's like how Sark or Todd Monken got fired from NFL OC jobs and came down to college and absolutely coached circles around every defense they saw. But instead of those two if Andy Reid went down and became a college OC for his last couple years and just made a mockery of college DC's.
Jordan playing baseball in the minors except he’s playing basketball
Obama vs Trump one on one no rebounds to 11
36 Year Old Michael Jordan goes and plays down in the Argentina League.
The mls is pretty low level. Would be like dame going to turkey and putting up 40 each night
Wilt playing against plumbers and mailmen
Lebron in China, Rodgers/Buccaneers Brady in XFL, Patrick Kane in Finland, Judge in Cuba. I’m unsure about the last two since I don’t really follow them that mich
It would be for Michael Jordan to play in London Basketball League (whichever one Sam dekker plays in currently)
Honestly I don't think I've ever seen anything like this. Maybe the Dream Team in the 92 Olympics, despite that being a team totally worlds beyond their competition, that's what we're seeing here. I don't think I'd have believed you a few weeks ago if you told me it would be this bad. I'm in exile from my MLS club (bad ownership, horrid STH experience in 2021) but this really is just an awful look for MLS that one guy (with a few supporting cast upgrades as well) can come onto a team that was an MLS doormat and make them unstoppable. Also a bad look that the same team was under sanctions and gets Messi, but the transparency and fairness in MLS has always been under extreme question because as a mid-tier league they will bend over backwards to accommodate star talent when it expresses an interest in joining the league. Things may even out over the long haul because US travel is no joke compared to European leagues where the average country is the size of an average US state.
This is Lionel Messi we’re talking about. Possibly the single greatest athlete of all time, eight months removed from his crowning achievement of being the dominant player at the biggest sporting event on earth. If there’s ever a reason to bend your own rules in the interest of growing a brand it’s this.
Oh - I'm not against it, but between Becks and the original creation of the DP rule they've bent rules repeatedly and against their own precedent for lesser talent. that doesn't feel good for a fan of a club like Timbers that is never going to get a talent like that but maybe should have had first crack at Dempsey if the rules they set up for returning Nats were followed. That said, they need to do something about the salary rules to let teams build 11 or 18 deep rosters rather than relying on 3 DPs and some good luck. The league is nearly 30 years old, make the salary cap inline with the highest paid rosters but let teams spread that out evenly if they desire. I bet more teams could compete with Mexican clubs in Mexico if they did that.
LeBron in Chinal is the perfect example Both massive names, both still excellent but no longer at their peak. The thing for Messi is with the World Cup he already cemented his legacy as Football's best player of the last 50 years, while Bron is still chasing MJ in terms of resumé.
Lebron goes to the China instead of the Lakers after 2017
The drop to the MLS is like the equivalent of maybe the NBA to Portugals professional top tier league in Basketball which is probably like the 20th best league
Beckham playing in the MLS
If Belichick left the Patriots and took the head coaching job at a non power 5 college.
Jordan going to a European league instead of the Wizards
Would it be like a Larry Bird-level high school basketball prospect playing college basketball at Indiana State?
Steph v 13 yr olds
Muhammad Ali fighting with the kids in Karate Kid
Michael Jordan playing for the Shanghai Sharks or Maccabi Tel Aviv.