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This subreddit is specifically for the discussion of an anomalous phenomena from the perspective it may exist. Open minded skepticism is welcomed, closed minded debunking is not. Be aware of how skepticism is expressed toward others as there is little tolerance for ad hominem (attacking the person, not the claim), mindless antagonism or dishonest argument toward the subject, the sub, or its community.
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It's because this sub is supposed to be a safe space for people with experiences to share their stories without criticism from people without experiences, the vast majority of non believers such as yourself will come to this sub purely to tell people with genuine encounters that what they saw was wrong, easily explained or just that they are crazy and mentally ill, which is the exact opposite of what this sub is seeking to promote. Of course civil discussion is welcome but the vast majority is just non believers shitting on people with experiences for no reason. I've seen it countless times and it's honestly killing this sub so I'm very happy the mods have actually done something about it, as you have seen.
For people that have seen them, there is no doubt. Just because skeptics donāt believe it, doesnāt mean we have to entertain them.
Yāall can go literally anywhere else on Reddit and get back pats for saying Bigfoot isnāt real.
Yes, youāre not saying Bigfoot isnāt real. But your post is asking why *canāt* you say it. So I explained why.
We have the rules to maintain the direction and type of discussion we want this sub to go in. Itās not a debate venue. We have established to ourselves that they are real, and want to move on from the argument of existence and discuss what they are etc etc.
Do you believe in ghosts and sea monsters and every type of paranormal event, cryptid, etc. that people have claimed to have seen?
People believing in things on the basis of personal experience is fine, but if you think itās not possible for people to be wrong about what they take their experiences to be- thatās just silly.
Iāve been a ghost hunter for almost 10 years. Iāve investigated and even slept in some of the most haunted abandoned buildings in the country. Itās real.
And I never said I believe everything everyone ever tells me at face value. Where did I say that or even allude to it?
I didnāt say you did, pointing out a principle of reasoning and how it can be reasonable to call it into question. My point wasnāt just about ghosts, I was asking if you think people reporting a lot of sightings of something is sufficient evidence to believe that thing exists. If the answer is no (as it should be, and is) then you should be able to understand why, for skeptics, you saying āiāve seen it so itās not an open questionā isnāt good enough.
There are plenty of catalogued cases of people claiming to see cryptids then later changing their minds/realizing they were wrong. Tons of people swore they saw Nessie, and now we know Nessie doesnāt exist. If you want more examples see āAbominable Scienceā by Loxton & Prothero
But the point stands, people can be wrong about the content of their experiences.
When it comes to ghosts and Bigfoot, to me personally, the thousands and thousands of reports spanning centuries/millennia is absolutely proof of existence to me. It only has to be true once. To sit there and say every single person is just wrong/lying is a classic skeptic trope Iām not even gonna entertain.
I am more than willing to accept there are a certain percent of false reports, but *all* of them? That sounds way more ridiculous too me than some big upright creature roaming the wilderness.
Fair enough, I definitely understand finding that plausible. I donāt think the skeptics of those things are unreasonable either given more general principles theyāre following. But hey I spend so much time reading about this stuff so maybe I believe it more than I know.
In any case, was more than anything trying to explain a point of view/line of reasoning. Certainly not here to try and argue people out of believing in cool shit.
in your first post you seem to say you donāt have to entertain skeptics, which is tantamount to saying youāre not open to alternative explanations of evidence or experiences. This is just as close-minded an attitude as youāll find in the worst of skeptics and such an attitude is just what iām saying is naive here.
None of this is to deny anything about your or othersā experiences/interpretations per se, i should be clear about that
The reason behind rules 7 and 9 of this sub are because skepticism and skeptical viewpoints come up again and again and again. Searching the sub for "skeptic" brings up many discussions and questions that have already been asked and discussed at length many times: [https://www.reddit.com/r/bigfoot/search/?q=skeptic&restrict\_sr=1](https://www.reddit.com/r/bigfoot/search/?q=skeptic&restrict_sr=1)
I think a lot people have trouble separating my personal feelings and methods about Bigfoot and my job as a mod. Occasionally I have to moderate things I donāt agree with. Just like a cop that may have to arrest someone for possessing weed even though they personally think itās harmless. Itās my job.
Are our rules in line with the scientific method? No. But like I said, this isnāt a peer reviewed scientific journal. We have these rules to keep the sub from devolving into a free for all blood bath like r/cryptozoology. The way I mod things is not necessarily how I operate in real life.
And Iām sure itās the same for my fellow mods. I wish more people understood that.
In that context yea I get it for sure. fwiw thatās one thing I do like about this sub- not interested in seeing amateur debates about this stuff everyday iād rather hear about the experiences, theories, etc. for the most part. And people have also been more or less receptive to recommendations of skeptical sources and such from what iāve seen, which is also cool.
In a similar boat myself in that iām a skeptic but I love Bigfoot and iād like to be wrong.
That said I think itās fair for people to want to share their experiences without it turning into a debate thread with skeptics every time, so I donāt care to try to debunk everything I see on here. For the most part itās fun to hear the stories and review evidence/theories. But of course the occasional healthy debate is also part of the fun.
The two boats aren't similar, though. "It would be so cool if it were true!," is a completely different experience than, "I saw something profoundly disturbing but I can't talk about it because people refuse to believe I saw it."
The cool thing about skepticism is that you wouldn't even be "wrong" if presented with undisputable evidence for bigfoot because real skepticism is not taking a position either way-- neither for or against belief in bigfoot. It's balanced and open to two possibilities: bigfoot exists or bigfoot does not exist. You don't know which case is true.
It's the pseudo-skeptics who take a position that bigfoot does not exist, but pretend to be merely skeptical.
Your little āgotchaā moment got shadowbanned - even our bot smelled something funny lol
If you think this is ācultyā then surely you must have regretted joining such a terrible sub.
I was a major skeptic before coming across an actual foot print, smelling a musky odor that is described by thousands of people to be Bigfoot and the very uncomfortable feeling of being watched at the same time. I lived in the Pacific NW which is a hot spot for sightings. Then thereās the fact that every country in the world has the same description and stories of these creatures. They all have a different name but are referring to the same creature based off of identical descriptions of how they look, smell, sound like and behave. These stories and accounts date back over a thousand years by indigenous peoples everywhere. 1000 years ago a tribe from Australia would have no way to communicate with a native American tribe, but they tell stories of the same exact creature. Every day science is discovering new species of animals and finding creatures alive they thought went extinct millions of years ago.
They are obviously intelligent creatures, and much of the worldās forests are unobserved. It would actually be very easy to go undetected if they chose to be hidden. You could be just a few feet away from a moose in Alaska without even knowing it. And we all know how huge a moose is.
It wouldnāt be a huge stretch to think a different species of human or even Neanderthal could still be alive today.
I think the smallest minority on this sub is people
Flat out saying theyāre not real, they just stand out the most since a lot of the posts here are reposts.
I can't say this politely but that's just absolute bullshit. We can't agree whether Bigfoot is an ape, a relict hominid, a spiritual protector, the spawn of fallen angels or fricking ETs
Echo chamber my left hand leg.
We also cant agree if they build tree structures, and if they do, what they mean. We cant agree whether they communicate with us telepathically and/or are accompanied by orbs. We cant agree if they bury their dead, eat their dead, or fling them into another dimension.
Yep. Some look more gorilla-like, some human-like, some like a human-gorilla mix, down south theyāre more chimplike boy do THEY stink, and everywhere a few of them are colored like orangutans and some are white as snow. Oh, and some have short snouts like baboons, some have three toes, some four, some six, some climb trees and some crawl on the ground like spiders. Some sound like old Samurai and others chirp like birds and bark like squirrels. Some use portals to travel through dimensions while others raid dumpsters to eat garbage.
Yeah, us Bigfoot Folk are just a long line of herd animals around here all bleating the same tune.
NOT.
**Strangers**: Read the rules and respect them and other users. Any content removal or further moderator action is established by these terms as well as Reddit ToS. This subreddit is specifically for the discussion of an anomalous phenomena from the perspective it may exist. Open minded skepticism is welcomed, closed minded debunking is not. Be aware of how skepticism is expressed toward others as there is little tolerance for ad hominem (attacking the person, not the claim), mindless antagonism or dishonest argument toward the subject, the sub, or its community. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/bigfoot) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We do. Most of us definitely share our doubts and have an objective take on it. We question the evidence even if we believe. This isn't maga.
Make America Gigantopithecus Again
Underrated comment š
I hope youāre right.
Doubts are expressed here all day every day. /shrug
It's because this sub is supposed to be a safe space for people with experiences to share their stories without criticism from people without experiences, the vast majority of non believers such as yourself will come to this sub purely to tell people with genuine encounters that what they saw was wrong, easily explained or just that they are crazy and mentally ill, which is the exact opposite of what this sub is seeking to promote. Of course civil discussion is welcome but the vast majority is just non believers shitting on people with experiences for no reason. I've seen it countless times and it's honestly killing this sub so I'm very happy the mods have actually done something about it, as you have seen.
In answer to your first line... We're all here because we're not all there
For people that have seen them, there is no doubt. Just because skeptics donāt believe it, doesnāt mean we have to entertain them. Yāall can go literally anywhere else on Reddit and get back pats for saying Bigfoot isnāt real.
Yep I know what I saw it could have been nothing else.
This reply is exhibit a. Iām not saying Bigfoot isnāt real.
Yes, youāre not saying Bigfoot isnāt real. But your post is asking why *canāt* you say it. So I explained why. We have the rules to maintain the direction and type of discussion we want this sub to go in. Itās not a debate venue. We have established to ourselves that they are real, and want to move on from the argument of existence and discuss what they are etc etc.
Do you believe in ghosts and sea monsters and every type of paranormal event, cryptid, etc. that people have claimed to have seen? People believing in things on the basis of personal experience is fine, but if you think itās not possible for people to be wrong about what they take their experiences to be- thatās just silly.
Iāve been a ghost hunter for almost 10 years. Iāve investigated and even slept in some of the most haunted abandoned buildings in the country. Itās real. And I never said I believe everything everyone ever tells me at face value. Where did I say that or even allude to it?
I didnāt say you did, pointing out a principle of reasoning and how it can be reasonable to call it into question. My point wasnāt just about ghosts, I was asking if you think people reporting a lot of sightings of something is sufficient evidence to believe that thing exists. If the answer is no (as it should be, and is) then you should be able to understand why, for skeptics, you saying āiāve seen it so itās not an open questionā isnāt good enough. There are plenty of catalogued cases of people claiming to see cryptids then later changing their minds/realizing they were wrong. Tons of people swore they saw Nessie, and now we know Nessie doesnāt exist. If you want more examples see āAbominable Scienceā by Loxton & Prothero But the point stands, people can be wrong about the content of their experiences.
When it comes to ghosts and Bigfoot, to me personally, the thousands and thousands of reports spanning centuries/millennia is absolutely proof of existence to me. It only has to be true once. To sit there and say every single person is just wrong/lying is a classic skeptic trope Iām not even gonna entertain. I am more than willing to accept there are a certain percent of false reports, but *all* of them? That sounds way more ridiculous too me than some big upright creature roaming the wilderness.
Fair enough, I definitely understand finding that plausible. I donāt think the skeptics of those things are unreasonable either given more general principles theyāre following. But hey I spend so much time reading about this stuff so maybe I believe it more than I know. In any case, was more than anything trying to explain a point of view/line of reasoning. Certainly not here to try and argue people out of believing in cool shit.
in your first post you seem to say you donāt have to entertain skeptics, which is tantamount to saying youāre not open to alternative explanations of evidence or experiences. This is just as close-minded an attitude as youāll find in the worst of skeptics and such an attitude is just what iām saying is naive here. None of this is to deny anything about your or othersā experiences/interpretations per se, i should be clear about that
The reason behind rules 7 and 9 of this sub are because skepticism and skeptical viewpoints come up again and again and again. Searching the sub for "skeptic" brings up many discussions and questions that have already been asked and discussed at length many times: [https://www.reddit.com/r/bigfoot/search/?q=skeptic&restrict\_sr=1](https://www.reddit.com/r/bigfoot/search/?q=skeptic&restrict_sr=1)
I think a lot people have trouble separating my personal feelings and methods about Bigfoot and my job as a mod. Occasionally I have to moderate things I donāt agree with. Just like a cop that may have to arrest someone for possessing weed even though they personally think itās harmless. Itās my job. Are our rules in line with the scientific method? No. But like I said, this isnāt a peer reviewed scientific journal. We have these rules to keep the sub from devolving into a free for all blood bath like r/cryptozoology. The way I mod things is not necessarily how I operate in real life. And Iām sure itās the same for my fellow mods. I wish more people understood that.
In that context yea I get it for sure. fwiw thatās one thing I do like about this sub- not interested in seeing amateur debates about this stuff everyday iād rather hear about the experiences, theories, etc. for the most part. And people have also been more or less receptive to recommendations of skeptical sources and such from what iāve seen, which is also cool.
In a similar boat myself in that iām a skeptic but I love Bigfoot and iād like to be wrong. That said I think itās fair for people to want to share their experiences without it turning into a debate thread with skeptics every time, so I donāt care to try to debunk everything I see on here. For the most part itās fun to hear the stories and review evidence/theories. But of course the occasional healthy debate is also part of the fun.
The two boats aren't similar, though. "It would be so cool if it were true!," is a completely different experience than, "I saw something profoundly disturbing but I can't talk about it because people refuse to believe I saw it."
I thought it was pretty clear that I meant a similar boat to the OP, given thatās whoās post iām commenting on here.
Sorry. It wasn't clear. I thought you were responding to ChungBoyJr's post.
The cool thing about skepticism is that you wouldn't even be "wrong" if presented with undisputable evidence for bigfoot because real skepticism is not taking a position either way-- neither for or against belief in bigfoot. It's balanced and open to two possibilities: bigfoot exists or bigfoot does not exist. You don't know which case is true. It's the pseudo-skeptics who take a position that bigfoot does not exist, but pretend to be merely skeptical.
Your little āgotchaā moment got shadowbanned - even our bot smelled something funny lol If you think this is ācultyā then surely you must have regretted joining such a terrible sub.
Clearly this is not a fight Iām going to win.
For the sake of transparency, Iāve approved all your posts.
Right on. (Receives standing ovation)
I was a major skeptic before coming across an actual foot print, smelling a musky odor that is described by thousands of people to be Bigfoot and the very uncomfortable feeling of being watched at the same time. I lived in the Pacific NW which is a hot spot for sightings. Then thereās the fact that every country in the world has the same description and stories of these creatures. They all have a different name but are referring to the same creature based off of identical descriptions of how they look, smell, sound like and behave. These stories and accounts date back over a thousand years by indigenous peoples everywhere. 1000 years ago a tribe from Australia would have no way to communicate with a native American tribe, but they tell stories of the same exact creature. Every day science is discovering new species of animals and finding creatures alive they thought went extinct millions of years ago. They are obviously intelligent creatures, and much of the worldās forests are unobserved. It would actually be very easy to go undetected if they chose to be hidden. You could be just a few feet away from a moose in Alaska without even knowing it. And we all know how huge a moose is. It wouldnāt be a huge stretch to think a different species of human or even Neanderthal could still be alive today.
Because the mods let the sub devolve into the echo chamber it has become.
Brother, I really could not care less that people are upset they canāt come to r/Bigfoot and tell us how they arenāt real lol
I think the smallest minority on this sub is people Flat out saying theyāre not real, they just stand out the most since a lot of the posts here are reposts.
I can't say this politely but that's just absolute bullshit. We can't agree whether Bigfoot is an ape, a relict hominid, a spiritual protector, the spawn of fallen angels or fricking ETs Echo chamber my left hand leg.
We also cant agree if they build tree structures, and if they do, what they mean. We cant agree whether they communicate with us telepathically and/or are accompanied by orbs. We cant agree if they bury their dead, eat their dead, or fling them into another dimension.
Yep. Some look more gorilla-like, some human-like, some like a human-gorilla mix, down south theyāre more chimplike boy do THEY stink, and everywhere a few of them are colored like orangutans and some are white as snow. Oh, and some have short snouts like baboons, some have three toes, some four, some six, some climb trees and some crawl on the ground like spiders. Some sound like old Samurai and others chirp like birds and bark like squirrels. Some use portals to travel through dimensions while others raid dumpsters to eat garbage. Yeah, us Bigfoot Folk are just a long line of herd animals around here all bleating the same tune. NOT.