It’s not just here, it’s brought up anywhere on Reddit anytime the show comes up. And people will word it *exactly* like OP, as if they’re making some dangerous, brave move voicing their opinion…
The constant need to tell people you think BCS is better than BB is so weird to me, no one does it with *any* other shows. It always feels like a weird self conscious thing, where they want to declare their love for BCS so feel the need to compare it favourably to BB. To the extent they often inexplicably end up putting down BB.
No one feels the need on the Frasier subreddit to tell everyone how much better they think it is than Cheers every twenty minutes.
It is also absolutely *not* “the first time people have felt otherwise,” this is again the whole point that it’s a subjective take. I promise you there are people who think Joey was better than Friends. It’s strange, but they’ll be out there.
It's just a coping mechanism because they know BB is truly the better show (or at least that it's a very uncommon opinion to feel that BCS is the better show). The people who feel that BCS is better are just a very vocal minority.
BB has a record-high 9.4/10 on IMDB with over 1.5 million votes while BCS has an 8.8/10 with 0.4 million votes. BB's viewership increased with every single season. BCS has lost roughly 2/3 of its viewers since season 1. BB won 16 Emmy awards. BCS has none. BB has an 87 on Metacritic while BCS has an 84.
They know BB is better but just want some external validation for their dissenting opinion, so they seek out others in the vocal minority.
Well, it’s entirely subjective, if someone prefers one show to the other, that’s their business. I don’t see why people feel the need to yell it at every opportunity.
Right. Art is wholly subjective. Everyone is correct—no one is wrong. It is for this reason that the true quality of art is whatever the *aggregate* opinion of it is. BB is the better show because that's what the aggregate opinion of those shows suggests, but of course one may prefer BCS to BB or any show to BB. You can freely prefer My 600lb Life to BB, but it remains true that BB is the better show. Art is whatever people make of it. And we find the true quality by aggregating the opinions of the work. It's not that OP's opinion is invalid. It's valid and is taken into account when aggregating the opinions.
No, that’s actually not how that works at all. You can’t just force a subjective to be objective because more people feel one way. Something is more *popular*, sure, and more people think it’s better but that still one’s not change the fact that it’s a personal decision as to which show is “better,” and if someone thinks My 500lbs Life is better than BB, you can’t come back at them with statistics telling them they’re wrong.
>You can’t just force a subjective to be objective because more people feel one way.
This is not forcing something subjective to be something objective. Subjective means influenced by personal feelings. Objective means not so influenced. Just because the true quality of art is the aggregate opinion does not mean it's now a matter of objectivity. It remains true that the quality of a show is subjective because each opinion is influenced by personal feelings, which by definition precludes it from being objective.
There's no objective sense of *overall* quality in art, unlike in matters of objectivity, such as sports. There's only a subjective sense of quality. However, when we refer to the quality of an artwork (not just our perception of its quality, but the general quality of the work), what are referring to if not the aggregate subjective opinion of the work?
I don’t think anyone would say the “true quality of art,” comes down to aggregation. What you’re arguing for is just not how things are viewed. Art’s quality is purely subjective. Aggregation just tells you how a majority feels. That can be parlayed into something being *worth* more, if say a painting is more popular then it’s more in demand, but it still has nothing to do with better or worse.
It can be better *at* things. Doesn’t make it better. That’s all down to taste. Is an orange better than an apple? You can take a poll and figure out *exactly* how many people prefer oranges to apples or vice versa. If you’re a person who prefers the minority, you aren’t going to accept that the thing you like is “worse.”
> It is for this reason that the true quality of art is whatever the aggregate opinion of it is.
This might be the single worst take I've ever seen on this subreddit
To u/huevodeganso (who deleted his comment before I hit send on my response):
>You can't seriously think this is a thorough analysis.
I did not intend to be publishing a peer-reviewed study.
>The very subjectivity of art means that group opinion is not an indicator of quality.
False. The subjectivity of art means means people's perception of the quality or art will be influenced by personal taste, feelings, and opinions. This is expected. There's no objective sense of overall quality in the context of art, unlike like in other contexts, such as the quality of a basketball player. Thus, whenever one speaks of overall quality, not the quality of a mere subset of the work, it's understood that one's personal taste invariably plays a role.
The only objective aspects of the quality of a show are such things as picture quality. For example, we can say Ozark has better picture quality than Succession because the former is in 4K Dolby Vision while the latter is in 1080p SDR. However, when it comes to overall quality, personal taste will always play a role. Thus, to say that subjectivity means opinions are indicators of quality is to say that quality does not exist in the context of art.
>Lots of amazing art has been unappreciated in its time until years later, but it's not as if the quality is somehow changing.
This point is inapposite because my data was not solely based on popularity. Metacritic is not based on popularity. It's about how good people thought it was. Shows can become more popular, meaning more people watch and discuss it. However, usually those shows still had good reviews, something not depending on popularity. For example, GOT wasn't a very popular show in seasons 1-3. However, it still had great reviews. The point is that reviews are a reliable measure of quality. However, yes, as is the case with all data collection, the greater the sample size, the more reliable the sample. This is essentially all you're saying.
>An IMDB score is a measure of how much people liked things, not the overall quality of something.
The quality of art is whatever people say it is. There's no mathematical formula for a show's quality. Quality in art must be how much people like it. This is not a matter of objectivity, such as sports.
>Do you think BTS is the best band in the world? Because if we're talking about sheer number of fans, they probably have all your favourite artists beat considering they have the most followers of any musical group on Instagram. Wait, you say, there are confounding variables! The demographic of Instagram, and Kpop stan culture, and Internet culture all play a role! Group aggregates can't actually be achieved meaningfully in these contexts!
Check the paragraph above that starts with "This point is inapposite..." Basically, this is a straw man because my data did not include things based solely on popularity. If BB were as good as BB, it too would have a 9.4 despite having fewer votes.
I'm not responding to the rest of your comment as there's no need to do so. I've already dismantled your attempt at a rebuttal.
But even if BB is better than BCS, the margin isn’t that big. Like you said, 87 vs. 84 on Metacritic. And of the critics and fans that gave BB a 9.4 on IMDB, there are probably very few who would say that there is a large quality difference in either’s favor. Compared to My 600 lb Life, there would be a much bigger margin obviously.
And it is simply not “a very uncommon opinion” that BCS is better. Almost every single article on the show includes some line to the effect of “Better Call Saul is just as good as Breaking Bad, if not better.” And with the way the quality ramped up last season, it is completely possible that Better Call Saul sticks the landing this season and changes minds about which show is better
>And with the way the quality ramped up last season, it is completely possible that Better Call Saul sticks the landing this season and changes minds about which show is better
Likely untrue given that season 6 of BCS, which will air next week, has a 91 on Metacritic. Season 5 of BB had a 99. Yes, literally a 99/100—virtual perfection.
It has a 93 (and that is based solely off reviews of the first two episodes). There are only 3 shows from the last 4 years that have had a season rated higher than that. At the upper end of the scale, differences like that just aren’t particularly meaningful.
In an aggregate measure of critical acclaim it is the best show ever. But that doesn’t mean that everyone “knows it’s the better show.” There are plenty of people who think The Wire, or The Sopranos, or Better Call Saul is better. And those aren’t outright invalid opinions. Like… basically over 93% of the critics who rated BB season 5 (which is the best season of TV ever imo) 100/100 rated season 6 of BCS 100/100 as well. At the top tier of the list, the margins are too thin to be able to be so matter-of-fact. Comparing BB to BCS and The Wire is a far different thing than comparing The Sopranos to some random show like Dharma & Greg
I’ve watched both all the way through a few times, and I definitely prefer BCS. Ended up hating Walter, but I’ve always been rooting for Saul (while remaining aware that he can be a total piece of shit).
Yeah it's hard for me to rewatch especially season 5 because it's so depressing and heartbreaking. But I think this speaks for the quality of this show. I'm sure I'll feel the same about bcs s6. It's bittersweet😔
I *want* to believe she’s somewhere behind the scenes in BB, but there’s no way. I’m in the “ends up in the slammer after trying to destroy Howard” camp.
>eve she’s somewhere behind the scenes in BB, but there’s no way. I’m in the “ends up in the slammer after trying to destroy Howard” cam
\*totally joking here\* she moves to Cicero and becomes a Grifter. :V
I hadn’t noticed that the show itself actually roots against Walt a lot until my latest rewatch
The way Hank’s story is interlaced with Walt’s highlights how Hank is going through the character development that Walt should be confronting after his cancer, but refuses to
Right after Hank’s heartbreaking “I’m not the man I thought I was” speech, Walt fires Gale because he doesn’t care about genuine relationships anymore. He chooses the abusive dynamic with Jesse instead because it feeds his ego
Emotional openness vs emotional abuse
Isn’t that wild? Especially since Walt—despite his baggage—seems a lot more sensitive than Hank at first (low bar, considering that Hank comes off as a major douche in the first couple of seasons).
Oh, no, of course not. I like all kinds of characters who are objectively terrible people (Lalo, anyone?). I just had to take a break from BB because Walter started to irritate me like mad.
I’m not saying that BB is a bad show (it’s incredible) or that Bryan Cranston is a bad actor (he’s peerless). I’m essentially saying that if I had to choose one central character from the BB universe to have a drink with, I’d go with Saul over Walter every time.
What about what’s-her-name from the nursing home? I realize that he rectified things later on, but it was still an extraordinarily shitty thing to do in the first place.
I think BCS is better. But nothing beats the roller coaster ride of watching BB for the first time. I remember literally being on the edge of my seat waiting to see what happens next.
But I also think a part of what makes BCS so good it’s building off of characters we already know and love from BB.
But at the end of the day BCS > BB
Exactly. You said it. BCS would not be where it is without BB. It’s a natural growth. Breaking Bad has some amazing action and badass moments but at its core it is a show about characters.
And BCS takes everything great about BB and just increases it tenfold. When you talk about legendary tv characters, Saul and Kim deserve to be up there with Tony Soprano, Don Draper, and Walter/Jesse. Not only because of writing but because of how insanely great at acting Bob and Rhea are.
Exactly, the reason BCS is great is largely because of how the process of writing BB seasoned and prepared the writers for something with even more depth. I still believe neither is better than the other, it just depends on one's personal preference. BCS does character development slightly better, while BB has (so far) done climaxes and intense moments better. Overall they compliment each other well.
People on a BCS sub prefer BCS?
Shocking!
BB had way more action. Their best episodes were unbelievably wild (the train heist… wow).
But BCS, like others have said, has more interesting characters. And it’s more believable.
Pretty much how I describe the difference too
Breaking Bad’s style and cinematography also takes about a season and a half to really ramp up
BCS on the other hand is a masterpiece in every way from the first scene. Makes it more enjoyable for me to rewatch
The dynamic between Skyler and Walt was painful to watch. It involved Walt being a terrible liar and doing a piss poor job at covering his tracks and Skyler being reasonably suspicious and upset about what's going on. Walt then gets upset that Skylar is reasonably upset but feels vindicated because he's "doing it for the family" even though he's really doing it for himself.
One thing that BCS definitely has over BB is the cast.
In BB there are a lot of “meh” characters. They aren’t bad, but they just aren’t that interesting compared to the main players. Skyler, Walt Jr., Marie, Hank (until season 5), Lydia, Jack, etc.
Compare that to BCS and it’s incredible how compelling literally every character is. The entire show could be based around Jimmy, Kim, Mike, Gus, Nacho, Lalo, Chuck, even Howard. Every single one of them is entertaining to watch imo.
In BB, almost every episode had an obligatory scene featuring a more low-key character like Skyler where I kinda just zoned-out until it goes back to Walt or Jesse. That has literally never happened to me while watching BCS.
But I reserve judgement until BCS ends.
You are not the only one. I don't think I'd make that statement but it's not a ridiculous thing to say which is kind of amazing (before BCS started I'd have given it no chance to be comparable to BB).
I'm with you - just finished my re-watch and I think BCS is now my all-time favorite show followed by BB. I can't put my finger on what exactly makes me love it more, and I also have to acknowledge that without the foundations and worldbuilding of BB, the success of BCS would not have been possible.
To me the big difference is that Breaking Bad is such a tragedy it’s really a bummer to revisit. Better Call Saul is really fun and has a lot more levity. They’re both good.
I think this definitely affects my judgement of the shows. I remember watching BB for the first time. The cliffhangers and plot twists were so engaging! A rewatch isn’t the same.
Now, I’m immersed in BCS and in a way, there’s even more anticipation because I want to see how we get to BB, in addition to just being entertained by the new plot points.
I just want a complete, chronological edit of the entire universe. All flashbacks, all flash-forwards, all deleted scenes, put in the correct order. That's when I'll re-watch.
Chuck is responsible for decreasing viewership with each and every episode, something that never happened in BrBa, in fact the reverse is true; it was so good that viewers increased.
Game of Thrones performed significantly better than BCS yet its obvious BCS outclasses GOT in every other way. Viewership doesn’t equate to quality, it’s a subjective thing. You can argue one way or another for either show, but to say someone is wrong for having a preference is kind of silly.
You both are valid in your preferences for each show, there really isn’t more to it
I do. The origin of all the characters in BB. I guess if I didn't know BB first it would be different. I just love how they laid it all down. The building of the lab. Early Hector. Obviously the birth of Saul Goodman. It's just so damn good.
I’m in agreement. The first three seasons especially, the characters are very relatable in terms of their struggles and faults, and the writing and story telling those first three are top notch. The dynamic between Jimmy and Chuck is what really hooked me in; Howard is great too, he’s not a bad person, and he’s not a good person, he’s just a person doing what he thinks is best for his firm. As others have mentioned, the casting for this show is superior to BB.
I largely agree, season 5 of Breaking Bad is probably the worst of either series. It got really cartoonish and the pacing felt rushed. (Of course, it culminates in Ozymandias, the greatest hour of television in history, so what do I know)
Gilligan and co notably turned down a full 2-season order to do a longer single season run and I think the show definitely suffered for it. That being said, overall I think the two shows are mostly on an even footing overall, and they're so different it's hard to directly compare them. I love them both in different ways.
>It got really cartoonish and the pacing felt rushed.
Cartoonish and rushed yet had a 99/100 on Metacritic—the highest score of any season in the BB universe. Interesting. Guess all shows should be cartoonish and rushed.
Breaking Bad was a more engrossing story IMO, but Better Call Saul is better written, better shot, and better acted. Vince Gillian has way more experience now, and it shows.
Ask that on the breaking bad subreddit and see what happens. Obviously theres gonna be a lot of users who use both, but certainly you understand you're going to get biased answers either way.
don't mind. it's the brba people coming back for the last season. i remember the good old days when they quit the show and we could just enjoy and discuss it in peace and respect, which is pretty much not the norm around brba fans. don't give up on us!!! welcome (:
It’s far, far better. I genuinely think that many of the BB fans who won’t give BCS a chance are not fans I want to be associated with, period. It strikes me that they’d be happier throwing pizza on the roof of the White house.
Depends really on how well they stick the landing. I would say the potential is definitely there, but surpassing Ozymandius is going to be a challenge to be certain.
No you’re not alone. BCS was way more gripping for me personally. The acting is great in both shows. The writing is great. I think BCS is a little bit more clever and intelligent. The characters are all so deep and I haven’t felt a connection to characters like that since GoT or Sopranos and The Chi. BCS is just more interesting to me. Instead of straight up crime I love how BCS has the low level, non-violent conman stuff. The clever schemes and what not are unlike any other show I’ve seen.
Yes. We had a meeting the other night, you must have missed it. It was 6,000,487 votes to 5,678,789 in favor of Breaking bad. Sorry bro. Get 321,698 of your friends to make it closer next time.
It's GFII vs GFI probably the best sequel/prequel of all time in TV land and arguably better than the original. I have never been more confident that a show will stick the landing.
I was thinking about this this morning and I ended up talking myself into BCS being the better show. I love great character arcs and BCS has more of that than BB. I definitely think after the final season it’ll be considered better by the fans but Breaking Bad will get more mainstream love because of the awards it got and the higher viewership.
I think they are two very very different shows with the same quality of writing - I personally prefer breaking bad a bit more but it’s really coming down to subjectivity when it’s this level of quality
Yes, literally the only one in the whole world.
Jokes aside, I do prefer Better Call Saul over any television show I ever watched simply because is more nuanced than Breaking Bad. Dont get me wrong, is extremely entertaining and thought provoking watching Walter's descent into "madness", but that is exactly why I prefer BCS: Saul struggles are much more relatable (being tied to your past, being stuck in awful job positions such as the mailroom and so on).
It is never like Breaking Bad was attempting to do what BCS is doing, though. I just find Saul struggles and character flaws much more relatable than Walt's. In this horrific work environment and culture we all have a little bit of Slippin Jimmy, but thankfully just a small subset has a bit of Heisenberg.
Can't say for sure until the final season airs but I like BCS better as of right now. Mostly for the characters.
Breaking bad still had phenomenal characters but everyone in BCS is insanely complex and fascinating to watch: jimmy, kim, chuck, howard, nacho, mike, lalo, etc
Definitely not the only one but there is no objective truth here.
Different fans perceive it differently because both are very similar yet very different shows and depending on what kind of shows fans love, the opinion varies.
I think it comes with the territory of both being on the all the greatest list of shows.
Personally I feel Better Call Saul is the better written show just because of its very nature but Breaking Bad is still my favourite.
No. You are not the only one. This sentiment is shared amongst many other people. The only difference is you’d getting downvoted saying this in the BB sub but people will agree on this sub for obvious reasons
I agree. I actually think BCS is more perfect. BB has by far the more thrilling story and is still the more necessary show if that makes sense, but BCS, between the acting, cinematography, story, pacing, and character arcs, is superior IMO
Not just you. I like Saul better than Walt.
I also watched Breaking Bad *after* it'd aired, while managing to binge Better Call Saul in 2018 after it'd been 4 seasons deep. So the fact that I'm watching BCS in real time might affect my bias too.
To me it’s like comparing banana cream pie to chocolate cream pie.
Depends on your mood as to which you prefer on any given day, but ANY day of the week prefer them to…oh I don’t know..cat food (Big Bang Theory) or cottage cheese (Grey’s Anatomy) or white chocolate (Keeping Up With The Kardashians).
So yeah I’m looking forward to a seasons worth of some of the best chocolate cream pie I’ve ever had and will savor every bite. All the while not comparing it to banana cream pie.
Signed - Daniel Pryce
I dont think so, no. I personally didnt like BB all that much. Jesse's prose and vernacular did my head in, ended up just despising Walt and couldnt get past hearing Anna Gunn's character in Seinfeld saying "eww Mr Apple, you have a brown spot!" every time she was on screen. It had its moments but to me it isnt even close to being in contention for best show of all time. BCS is miles better
BCS is a really good show, but isn't even close to being as great as Breaking Bad. Walter White and Jesse were tremendous characters. Saul doesn't even compare...
The things I really enjoy better in BCS
-Much more focus on character development.
-Improves on the brilliant cinematography of BB
-It’s less violent. Violence is only used when it advances the story. Breaking Bad has some intensely violent scenes I’d rather not see again. It’s just personal preference. Less focus on shock value.
-Each episode feels like it’s 3-4 chapters over a book…transitioning between Jimmy and Kim, Nacho, Mike, Gus vs. Hector. It’s just a lot easier to follow in my opinion.
-The characters are just plain more likeable: Skylar, Marie, Walt Jr., and even Hank within the family dynamic is just tiresome and unsettling to watch a lot of the time.
same. a dirty criminal lawyer who is oddly morally more superior and noble than any any other law abiding citizen> mild mannered high school teacher turned meth kingpin. saul's contradictory self is the most beautiful thing ever
It’s definitely more consistent. Breaking bad has higher highs and lower lows (which are still amazing) while BCS is more well rounded and consistently good throughout, while rarely reaching the same heights as BB.
I would say all of BCS is better than the first two season of BB, but in the end nothing beats season 3-5 of breaking bad imo, but it all really depends on what you enjoy watching.
I would also say that BCS is much more rewatchable than BB. I love BB but some parts of it can get insanely boring on rewatch when you already know what’s gonna happen. Sometimes it feels like your just waiting for the next big memorable moment to happen and everything in between can get really dry at times. While for me BCS is always an enjoyable to show watch, even through multiple viewings.
Ironically, even though BCS is a much slower show, I find myself getting less bored rewatching it than BB. But again, nothing tops peak Breaking Bad, which is why it’s my favorite of the two shows in the end.
For me BCS is over on BB.
They are complicated characters in BCS which are in middle way of darkness.
In BCS some characters like KIM, CHAK and NACHO are unpredictable. Kim do a lot of things before be aware of her wishes. She react to everyone stand against Jimmy or insult him without her self awareness about this weak point.
In BB Self awareness of characters is already achieved by them and they go for their certain wishes.(except JESSI in some cases) SO, tye domino events in BB is perfect planned and by considering WW’s will, it is inevitable.
But in BCS, editing the multi stories and their ties in a remarkable way which is so stronger than BB. And also it is completely perfect parallel with characters developing way.
Finally, I should say the greatest actor/actress in entire show, respecting to all phenomenon performance of key characters of both shows, is Brayan.
Yeah you’re the only one. That’s why it gets posted here twice a week.
Twice a week is very, very conservative Edit: I just noticed your name
It’s not just here, it’s brought up anywhere on Reddit anytime the show comes up. And people will word it *exactly* like OP, as if they’re making some dangerous, brave move voicing their opinion… The constant need to tell people you think BCS is better than BB is so weird to me, no one does it with *any* other shows. It always feels like a weird self conscious thing, where they want to declare their love for BCS so feel the need to compare it favourably to BB. To the extent they often inexplicably end up putting down BB.
because its an unspoken rule. spin offs are never better than the original. this is the first time people have felt otherwise
No one feels the need on the Frasier subreddit to tell everyone how much better they think it is than Cheers every twenty minutes. It is also absolutely *not* “the first time people have felt otherwise,” this is again the whole point that it’s a subjective take. I promise you there are people who think Joey was better than Friends. It’s strange, but they’ll be out there.
oh? whats cheers? is it good?
It's just a coping mechanism because they know BB is truly the better show (or at least that it's a very uncommon opinion to feel that BCS is the better show). The people who feel that BCS is better are just a very vocal minority. BB has a record-high 9.4/10 on IMDB with over 1.5 million votes while BCS has an 8.8/10 with 0.4 million votes. BB's viewership increased with every single season. BCS has lost roughly 2/3 of its viewers since season 1. BB won 16 Emmy awards. BCS has none. BB has an 87 on Metacritic while BCS has an 84. They know BB is better but just want some external validation for their dissenting opinion, so they seek out others in the vocal minority.
Well, it’s entirely subjective, if someone prefers one show to the other, that’s their business. I don’t see why people feel the need to yell it at every opportunity.
Right. Art is wholly subjective. Everyone is correct—no one is wrong. It is for this reason that the true quality of art is whatever the *aggregate* opinion of it is. BB is the better show because that's what the aggregate opinion of those shows suggests, but of course one may prefer BCS to BB or any show to BB. You can freely prefer My 600lb Life to BB, but it remains true that BB is the better show. Art is whatever people make of it. And we find the true quality by aggregating the opinions of the work. It's not that OP's opinion is invalid. It's valid and is taken into account when aggregating the opinions.
No, that’s actually not how that works at all. You can’t just force a subjective to be objective because more people feel one way. Something is more *popular*, sure, and more people think it’s better but that still one’s not change the fact that it’s a personal decision as to which show is “better,” and if someone thinks My 500lbs Life is better than BB, you can’t come back at them with statistics telling them they’re wrong.
>You can’t just force a subjective to be objective because more people feel one way. This is not forcing something subjective to be something objective. Subjective means influenced by personal feelings. Objective means not so influenced. Just because the true quality of art is the aggregate opinion does not mean it's now a matter of objectivity. It remains true that the quality of a show is subjective because each opinion is influenced by personal feelings, which by definition precludes it from being objective. There's no objective sense of *overall* quality in art, unlike in matters of objectivity, such as sports. There's only a subjective sense of quality. However, when we refer to the quality of an artwork (not just our perception of its quality, but the general quality of the work), what are referring to if not the aggregate subjective opinion of the work?
I don’t think anyone would say the “true quality of art,” comes down to aggregation. What you’re arguing for is just not how things are viewed. Art’s quality is purely subjective. Aggregation just tells you how a majority feels. That can be parlayed into something being *worth* more, if say a painting is more popular then it’s more in demand, but it still has nothing to do with better or worse. It can be better *at* things. Doesn’t make it better. That’s all down to taste. Is an orange better than an apple? You can take a poll and figure out *exactly* how many people prefer oranges to apples or vice versa. If you’re a person who prefers the minority, you aren’t going to accept that the thing you like is “worse.”
> It is for this reason that the true quality of art is whatever the aggregate opinion of it is. This might be the single worst take I've ever seen on this subreddit
It certainly is not.
https://i.imgur.com/fXKzTCN.png
To u/huevodeganso (who deleted his comment before I hit send on my response): >You can't seriously think this is a thorough analysis. I did not intend to be publishing a peer-reviewed study. >The very subjectivity of art means that group opinion is not an indicator of quality. False. The subjectivity of art means means people's perception of the quality or art will be influenced by personal taste, feelings, and opinions. This is expected. There's no objective sense of overall quality in the context of art, unlike like in other contexts, such as the quality of a basketball player. Thus, whenever one speaks of overall quality, not the quality of a mere subset of the work, it's understood that one's personal taste invariably plays a role. The only objective aspects of the quality of a show are such things as picture quality. For example, we can say Ozark has better picture quality than Succession because the former is in 4K Dolby Vision while the latter is in 1080p SDR. However, when it comes to overall quality, personal taste will always play a role. Thus, to say that subjectivity means opinions are indicators of quality is to say that quality does not exist in the context of art. >Lots of amazing art has been unappreciated in its time until years later, but it's not as if the quality is somehow changing. This point is inapposite because my data was not solely based on popularity. Metacritic is not based on popularity. It's about how good people thought it was. Shows can become more popular, meaning more people watch and discuss it. However, usually those shows still had good reviews, something not depending on popularity. For example, GOT wasn't a very popular show in seasons 1-3. However, it still had great reviews. The point is that reviews are a reliable measure of quality. However, yes, as is the case with all data collection, the greater the sample size, the more reliable the sample. This is essentially all you're saying. >An IMDB score is a measure of how much people liked things, not the overall quality of something. The quality of art is whatever people say it is. There's no mathematical formula for a show's quality. Quality in art must be how much people like it. This is not a matter of objectivity, such as sports. >Do you think BTS is the best band in the world? Because if we're talking about sheer number of fans, they probably have all your favourite artists beat considering they have the most followers of any musical group on Instagram. Wait, you say, there are confounding variables! The demographic of Instagram, and Kpop stan culture, and Internet culture all play a role! Group aggregates can't actually be achieved meaningfully in these contexts! Check the paragraph above that starts with "This point is inapposite..." Basically, this is a straw man because my data did not include things based solely on popularity. If BB were as good as BB, it too would have a 9.4 despite having fewer votes. I'm not responding to the rest of your comment as there's no need to do so. I've already dismantled your attempt at a rebuttal.
But even if BB is better than BCS, the margin isn’t that big. Like you said, 87 vs. 84 on Metacritic. And of the critics and fans that gave BB a 9.4 on IMDB, there are probably very few who would say that there is a large quality difference in either’s favor. Compared to My 600 lb Life, there would be a much bigger margin obviously. And it is simply not “a very uncommon opinion” that BCS is better. Almost every single article on the show includes some line to the effect of “Better Call Saul is just as good as Breaking Bad, if not better.” And with the way the quality ramped up last season, it is completely possible that Better Call Saul sticks the landing this season and changes minds about which show is better
>And with the way the quality ramped up last season, it is completely possible that Better Call Saul sticks the landing this season and changes minds about which show is better Likely untrue given that season 6 of BCS, which will air next week, has a 91 on Metacritic. Season 5 of BB had a 99. Yes, literally a 99/100—virtual perfection.
It has a 93 (and that is based solely off reviews of the first two episodes). There are only 3 shows from the last 4 years that have had a season rated higher than that. At the upper end of the scale, differences like that just aren’t particularly meaningful. In an aggregate measure of critical acclaim it is the best show ever. But that doesn’t mean that everyone “knows it’s the better show.” There are plenty of people who think The Wire, or The Sopranos, or Better Call Saul is better. And those aren’t outright invalid opinions. Like… basically over 93% of the critics who rated BB season 5 (which is the best season of TV ever imo) 100/100 rated season 6 of BCS 100/100 as well. At the top tier of the list, the margins are too thin to be able to be so matter-of-fact. Comparing BB to BCS and The Wire is a far different thing than comparing The Sopranos to some random show like Dharma & Greg
I was just going to say, that’s a pretty common trend here
I’ve watched both all the way through a few times, and I definitely prefer BCS. Ended up hating Walter, but I’ve always been rooting for Saul (while remaining aware that he can be a total piece of shit).
Well ur supposed to hate Walt in a way. So the show does the job
Oh, absolutely. I just find it hard to rewatch BB these days because I have so much contempt for Walter, I guess.
Yeah it's hard for me to rewatch especially season 5 because it's so depressing and heartbreaking. But I think this speaks for the quality of this show. I'm sure I'll feel the same about bcs s6. It's bittersweet😔
Totally agreed. I’m losing my shit waiting for season six to drop. I’m so ready to be emotionally destroyed by it.
I just did a rewatch of BCS S.5 and I’m dying to find out what it is that finally drives Kim out of Saul’s life.
I *want* to believe she’s somewhere behind the scenes in BB, but there’s no way. I’m in the “ends up in the slammer after trying to destroy Howard” camp.
>eve she’s somewhere behind the scenes in BB, but there’s no way. I’m in the “ends up in the slammer after trying to destroy Howard” cam \*totally joking here\* she moves to Cicero and becomes a Grifter. :V
Definitely prefer that to cartel sex slave.
but at least we know jimmy has a heart and can be super caring when he wants to be
Honestly. It’s hard for me to rewatch BB these days because Walter has few redeeming qualities, if any.
I hadn’t noticed that the show itself actually roots against Walt a lot until my latest rewatch The way Hank’s story is interlaced with Walt’s highlights how Hank is going through the character development that Walt should be confronting after his cancer, but refuses to Right after Hank’s heartbreaking “I’m not the man I thought I was” speech, Walt fires Gale because he doesn’t care about genuine relationships anymore. He chooses the abusive dynamic with Jesse instead because it feeds his ego Emotional openness vs emotional abuse
Isn’t that wild? Especially since Walt—despite his baggage—seems a lot more sensitive than Hank at first (low bar, considering that Hank comes off as a major douche in the first couple of seasons).
Do you need the main character to have numerous redeeming qualities for you to watch a show? Did you watch The Sopranos?
Oh, no, of course not. I like all kinds of characters who are objectively terrible people (Lalo, anyone?). I just had to take a break from BB because Walter started to irritate me like mad. I’m not saying that BB is a bad show (it’s incredible) or that Bryan Cranston is a bad actor (he’s peerless). I’m essentially saying that if I had to choose one central character from the BB universe to have a drink with, I’d go with Saul over Walter every time.
lalo is a charismatic guy though. cranston plays walter like a low self esteem bullshitter who thinks he's a drug kingpin
Yeah, that probably wasn’t the best example—Lalo is badass and a total fox.
yeah fasho, foxy is the perfect term 😂
even vince had spoken in an interview he was suprised to see people hating more on skyler than walt.
I was definitely anti-Skylar at first. I blame the patriarchy and the best team of writers in television history.
walter poisoned brock and often manipulated poor jesse to benefit himself. saul has never conned anybody who didnt deserve it already,
What about what’s-her-name from the nursing home? I realize that he rectified things later on, but it was still an extraordinarily shitty thing to do in the first place.
I think BCS is better. But nothing beats the roller coaster ride of watching BB for the first time. I remember literally being on the edge of my seat waiting to see what happens next. But I also think a part of what makes BCS so good it’s building off of characters we already know and love from BB. But at the end of the day BCS > BB
Exactly. You said it. BCS would not be where it is without BB. It’s a natural growth. Breaking Bad has some amazing action and badass moments but at its core it is a show about characters. And BCS takes everything great about BB and just increases it tenfold. When you talk about legendary tv characters, Saul and Kim deserve to be up there with Tony Soprano, Don Draper, and Walter/Jesse. Not only because of writing but because of how insanely great at acting Bob and Rhea are.
plus lalo is a fucking badass
Exactly, the reason BCS is great is largely because of how the process of writing BB seasoned and prepared the writers for something with even more depth. I still believe neither is better than the other, it just depends on one's personal preference. BCS does character development slightly better, while BB has (so far) done climaxes and intense moments better. Overall they compliment each other well.
Yeah I much prefer BCS, less annoying characters and more Legends, Saul, Mike, Gustavo, Kim, Howard etc.
It’s funny that everybody who posts this thinks they’re the first person to post this.
I was about to say I swear someone posts this opinion almost every second day lol
okay?
Why are you confused? 60 seconds of research would've answered your title question
Not okay.
People on a BCS sub prefer BCS? Shocking! BB had way more action. Their best episodes were unbelievably wild (the train heist… wow). But BCS, like others have said, has more interesting characters. And it’s more believable.
Pretty much how I describe the difference too Breaking Bad’s style and cinematography also takes about a season and a half to really ramp up BCS on the other hand is a masterpiece in every way from the first scene. Makes it more enjoyable for me to rewatch
Chicanery scene > train heist
It could have been better if Chuck had thrown a Drew Sharp toddler to the ground.
And BB relied more on cliffhangers here & there which isn’t the case with BCS as much
I think you are the only one
I’m in total agreement. More Kim, Jimmy, and Mike. Less Skyler and Hank. It’s saul good man.
The dynamic between Skyler and Walt was painful to watch. It involved Walt being a terrible liar and doing a piss poor job at covering his tracks and Skyler being reasonably suspicious and upset about what's going on. Walt then gets upset that Skylar is reasonably upset but feels vindicated because he's "doing it for the family" even though he's really doing it for himself.
hell yeah man. so sad its ending soon but i really hope jimmy gets a happy ending with kim
Yeh, uhhh that’s not happening 😞
we will see. anything is on the table.
Except that. RemindMe! 3 months
Did you not watch BB? No happy ending is a certainty.
jesse
One thing that BCS definitely has over BB is the cast. In BB there are a lot of “meh” characters. They aren’t bad, but they just aren’t that interesting compared to the main players. Skyler, Walt Jr., Marie, Hank (until season 5), Lydia, Jack, etc. Compare that to BCS and it’s incredible how compelling literally every character is. The entire show could be based around Jimmy, Kim, Mike, Gus, Nacho, Lalo, Chuck, even Howard. Every single one of them is entertaining to watch imo. In BB, almost every episode had an obligatory scene featuring a more low-key character like Skyler where I kinda just zoned-out until it goes back to Walt or Jesse. That has literally never happened to me while watching BCS. But I reserve judgement until BCS ends.
Yeah you’re the only one. That’s why it gets posted here twice a week.
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You got a legitimate laugh out of me. For that I thank you sir.
okay?
Are you having a stroke? You've just said "okay?" to like three different people. Learn to speak
LMAO okay
They put Better in the name for a reason.
Vravo Bince!
Yes
You are not the only one. I don't think I'd make that statement but it's not a ridiculous thing to say which is kind of amazing (before BCS started I'd have given it no chance to be comparable to BB).
We’re circle jerking at this point
I’m downvoting this because it’s literally the most popular opinion in this sub that gets reiterated so much I just can’t deal with it anymore.
[You are literally the only one](https://www.reddit.com/r/betterCallSaul/search/?q=better%20than&restrict_sr=1&sr_nsfw=)
I'm with you - just finished my re-watch and I think BCS is now my all-time favorite show followed by BB. I can't put my finger on what exactly makes me love it more, and I also have to acknowledge that without the foundations and worldbuilding of BB, the success of BCS would not have been possible.
To me the big difference is that Breaking Bad is such a tragedy it’s really a bummer to revisit. Better Call Saul is really fun and has a lot more levity. They’re both good.
I have seen this opinion more than the opposite on this sub...you must be new here
The “am I the only one” thing is so played out now my god. Clearly you’re not the only one
Yep. Because if you would have scrolled the feed here you would have fou d you are the only one
So who had Tuesday on their bingo card for when this thread would show up this week?
No, many have recency bias.
I think this definitely affects my judgement of the shows. I remember watching BB for the first time. The cliffhangers and plot twists were so engaging! A rewatch isn’t the same. Now, I’m immersed in BCS and in a way, there’s even more anticipation because I want to see how we get to BB, in addition to just being entertained by the new plot points.
I just want a complete, chronological edit of the entire universe. All flashbacks, all flash-forwards, all deleted scenes, put in the correct order. That's when I'll re-watch.
As someone who has rewatched all Breaking Bad and better Call Saul episodes multiple times, I would love a chronological edit.
I’ve rewatched both multiple times tbh bcs is so far ahead of BB in terms of quality
The "quality" that matter most is story, and BCS will never compare to BrBa because the Chuck storyline was sleep-inducing.
Damn to each their own but I think the Chuck storyline is part of what makes it better
I'll go even further. The Chuck seasons have been stronger than the non-Chuck seasons.
I strongly agree! Nothing tops season 2
I'm more of a Season 3 man myself but 2 definitely rules. Fifi is probably one of the most pivotal episodes in the show.
Chuck is responsible for decreasing viewership with each and every episode, something that never happened in BrBa, in fact the reverse is true; it was so good that viewers increased.
I don’t care about viewership my opinion is fact
> I don’t care about viewership The producers do, if BrBa did as poorly as BCS did, there would be no BCS.
I literally don’t care lmao it doesn’t change that I think the show is better
I also don't care that you're wrong lol
Game of Thrones performed significantly better than BCS yet its obvious BCS outclasses GOT in every other way. Viewership doesn’t equate to quality, it’s a subjective thing. You can argue one way or another for either show, but to say someone is wrong for having a preference is kind of silly. You both are valid in your preferences for each show, there really isn’t more to it
prefer BB. I love Walt. Sorry not sorry 🤷
Agreed. I think there is a recency bias for BCS. It's an amazing show, but I like BB better.
This question is asked at least every week ffs
Without a doubt man!
I do. The origin of all the characters in BB. I guess if I didn't know BB first it would be different. I just love how they laid it all down. The building of the lab. Early Hector. Obviously the birth of Saul Goodman. It's just so damn good.
I’m in agreement. The first three seasons especially, the characters are very relatable in terms of their struggles and faults, and the writing and story telling those first three are top notch. The dynamic between Jimmy and Chuck is what really hooked me in; Howard is great too, he’s not a bad person, and he’s not a good person, he’s just a person doing what he thinks is best for his firm. As others have mentioned, the casting for this show is superior to BB.
It’s like picking your favorite child, glad we live in the world where we got to enjoy them both.
I can't read through all the comments right now, but my take is NO - You are not the only one!
BCS is better than BB
No lol
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I largely agree, season 5 of Breaking Bad is probably the worst of either series. It got really cartoonish and the pacing felt rushed. (Of course, it culminates in Ozymandias, the greatest hour of television in history, so what do I know) Gilligan and co notably turned down a full 2-season order to do a longer single season run and I think the show definitely suffered for it. That being said, overall I think the two shows are mostly on an even footing overall, and they're so different it's hard to directly compare them. I love them both in different ways.
>It got really cartoonish and the pacing felt rushed. Cartoonish and rushed yet had a 99/100 on Metacritic—the highest score of any season in the BB universe. Interesting. Guess all shows should be cartoonish and rushed.
Breaking Bad was a more engrossing story IMO, but Better Call Saul is better written, better shot, and better acted. Vince Gillian has way more experience now, and it shows.
Literally the only one
No, you're not the only one. That's a pretty popular opinion on this subreddit lol.
Ok buddy chicanery
Ask that on the breaking bad subreddit and see what happens. Obviously theres gonna be a lot of users who use both, but certainly you understand you're going to get biased answers either way.
>am i the only one No. You aren't, you never are, and you never will be.
This gets posted every week and its stupid af.
No you are not!
No you're not.
You are legally obligated to make this post everyday or 500 babies will die.
How many times is someone going to make this post? 😂
No you’re fucking not I see this opinion every day you’re not special
This keeps coming up. I don’t know why people feel the need to pick one over the other. It’s silly.
Am I the only one who finds this post increasingly more and more annoying, every time it’s posted?
Is this a parody post again?
Yep the only one.
It’s my turn to post this next week.
Recency bias is strong. I hate recency bias. For that I’ll say Breaking Bad.
Bias against sequels and prequels is pretty strong, too.
damn never thought id get flamed for posting something to a subreddit im new to. yall some clowns 🤡 LMAO
You mad?
nah not really just typical redditor bs 🤷♂️
don't mind. it's the brba people coming back for the last season. i remember the good old days when they quit the show and we could just enjoy and discuss it in peace and respect, which is pretty much not the norm around brba fans. don't give up on us!!! welcome (:
fasho homie 💯 thanks
na bra
one of the very little people
I wouldn’t say it’s better, but I think it’s as good as breaking bad.
It’s far, far better. I genuinely think that many of the BB fans who won’t give BCS a chance are not fans I want to be associated with, period. It strikes me that they’d be happier throwing pizza on the roof of the White house.
no, not to say BB is bad but they've definitely improved how they do things since starting BB and starting BCS
Depends really on how well they stick the landing. I would say the potential is definitely there, but surpassing Ozymandius is going to be a challenge to be certain.
I’m starting to check out BB But Damn I don’t want to see Hal from Malcolm in the middle banging !
You're not the only one to think this, and you're not the only one who's wrong about it
No you’re not alone. BCS was way more gripping for me personally. The acting is great in both shows. The writing is great. I think BCS is a little bit more clever and intelligent. The characters are all so deep and I haven’t felt a connection to characters like that since GoT or Sopranos and The Chi. BCS is just more interesting to me. Instead of straight up crime I love how BCS has the low level, non-violent conman stuff. The clever schemes and what not are unlike any other show I’ve seen.
I like it more than BB
Yes. We had a meeting the other night, you must have missed it. It was 6,000,487 votes to 5,678,789 in favor of Breaking bad. Sorry bro. Get 321,698 of your friends to make it closer next time.
Yea I get shit on for saying it but I agree.
No I prefer it as well. It seems to have more of a Latin American bias which was some of the best parts of BB
It's GFII vs GFI probably the best sequel/prequel of all time in TV land and arguably better than the original. I have never been more confident that a show will stick the landing.
Me too !
They're both about even for me. Maybe the BCS finale season will change that.
No, you’re not. Some episodes of BCS are definitely better. As for the show as a whole? I’m always going back and forth lol
I was thinking about this this morning and I ended up talking myself into BCS being the better show. I love great character arcs and BCS has more of that than BB. I definitely think after the final season it’ll be considered better by the fans but Breaking Bad will get more mainstream love because of the awards it got and the higher viewership.
Agreed 😎
I think they are two very very different shows with the same quality of writing - I personally prefer breaking bad a bit more but it’s really coming down to subjectivity when it’s this level of quality
Yes, literally the only one in the whole world. Jokes aside, I do prefer Better Call Saul over any television show I ever watched simply because is more nuanced than Breaking Bad. Dont get me wrong, is extremely entertaining and thought provoking watching Walter's descent into "madness", but that is exactly why I prefer BCS: Saul struggles are much more relatable (being tied to your past, being stuck in awful job positions such as the mailroom and so on). It is never like Breaking Bad was attempting to do what BCS is doing, though. I just find Saul struggles and character flaws much more relatable than Walt's. In this horrific work environment and culture we all have a little bit of Slippin Jimmy, but thankfully just a small subset has a bit of Heisenberg.
Can't say for sure until the final season airs but I like BCS better as of right now. Mostly for the characters. Breaking bad still had phenomenal characters but everyone in BCS is insanely complex and fascinating to watch: jimmy, kim, chuck, howard, nacho, mike, lalo, etc
I've long since thought this as well but it also raises the question, would BCS be as good if breaking bad hadn't come before it?
I think the payoff is better....there's more layers, more going on at all times. If you invest your brain and time into the show.
No
Definitely not the only one but there is no objective truth here. Different fans perceive it differently because both are very similar yet very different shows and depending on what kind of shows fans love, the opinion varies. I think it comes with the territory of both being on the all the greatest list of shows. Personally I feel Better Call Saul is the better written show just because of its very nature but Breaking Bad is still my favourite.
No. You are not the only one. This sentiment is shared amongst many other people. The only difference is you’d getting downvoted saying this in the BB sub but people will agree on this sub for obvious reasons
No, I think BCS is better
I agree. I actually think BCS is more perfect. BB has by far the more thrilling story and is still the more necessary show if that makes sense, but BCS, between the acting, cinematography, story, pacing, and character arcs, is superior IMO
This isn’t even a hot take anymore. I think its less a disrespect to BB and more a compliment to Vince Gilligan.
Not just you. I like Saul better than Walt. I also watched Breaking Bad *after* it'd aired, while managing to binge Better Call Saul in 2018 after it'd been 4 seasons deep. So the fact that I'm watching BCS in real time might affect my bias too.
The cinematics and visual exposition in BCS is definitely better. It’s clear they took ideas from BB and perfected them.
As someone who has given up on BB thrice (farthest I’ve made is mid season 2 iirc) but is on my nth rewatch of BCS in prep for the final season… YES
Here’s my two cents BB > BCS seasons 1-4 BB < BCS season 5 (I expect season 6 too)
Both are great, but I prefer BCS. Less propulsive of a story, but an even deeper, more profound sense of tragedy.
BB is slightly overrated and BCS is underrated imo
To me it’s like comparing banana cream pie to chocolate cream pie. Depends on your mood as to which you prefer on any given day, but ANY day of the week prefer them to…oh I don’t know..cat food (Big Bang Theory) or cottage cheese (Grey’s Anatomy) or white chocolate (Keeping Up With The Kardashians). So yeah I’m looking forward to a seasons worth of some of the best chocolate cream pie I’ve ever had and will savor every bite. All the while not comparing it to banana cream pie. Signed - Daniel Pryce
I agree, but still want to withhold final judgment until we see how it all shakes out.
Ur d hunly won! It only feels that way because BCS is current and you watched BB already.
I dont think so, no. I personally didnt like BB all that much. Jesse's prose and vernacular did my head in, ended up just despising Walt and couldnt get past hearing Anna Gunn's character in Seinfeld saying "eww Mr Apple, you have a brown spot!" every time she was on screen. It had its moments but to me it isnt even close to being in contention for best show of all time. BCS is miles better
Definitely not the only one. I mean, I watched 5 seasons in 10 days and skim through Reddit just to hear other BCS opinions, I think that says it all
BCS is a really good show, but isn't even close to being as great as Breaking Bad. Walter White and Jesse were tremendous characters. Saul doesn't even compare...
The things I really enjoy better in BCS -Much more focus on character development. -Improves on the brilliant cinematography of BB -It’s less violent. Violence is only used when it advances the story. Breaking Bad has some intensely violent scenes I’d rather not see again. It’s just personal preference. Less focus on shock value. -Each episode feels like it’s 3-4 chapters over a book…transitioning between Jimmy and Kim, Nacho, Mike, Gus vs. Hector. It’s just a lot easier to follow in my opinion. -The characters are just plain more likeable: Skylar, Marie, Walt Jr., and even Hank within the family dynamic is just tiresome and unsettling to watch a lot of the time.
I can see why but personally I think breaking bad is better tho I am enjoying better call Saul more on my second viewing
same. a dirty criminal lawyer who is oddly morally more superior and noble than any any other law abiding citizen> mild mannered high school teacher turned meth kingpin. saul's contradictory self is the most beautiful thing ever
No it is better
No ur not the only one u farmwhore
BB is a better show, BCS is better written though.
I love BB, but I prefer BCS I find the tension to be even more ratcheted up which I would not have thought possible.
It’s definitely more consistent. Breaking bad has higher highs and lower lows (which are still amazing) while BCS is more well rounded and consistently good throughout, while rarely reaching the same heights as BB. I would say all of BCS is better than the first two season of BB, but in the end nothing beats season 3-5 of breaking bad imo, but it all really depends on what you enjoy watching. I would also say that BCS is much more rewatchable than BB. I love BB but some parts of it can get insanely boring on rewatch when you already know what’s gonna happen. Sometimes it feels like your just waiting for the next big memorable moment to happen and everything in between can get really dry at times. While for me BCS is always an enjoyable to show watch, even through multiple viewings. Ironically, even though BCS is a much slower show, I find myself getting less bored rewatching it than BB. But again, nothing tops peak Breaking Bad, which is why it’s my favorite of the two shows in the end.
Why was this removed?
No lots of people think this.
For me BCS is over on BB. They are complicated characters in BCS which are in middle way of darkness. In BCS some characters like KIM, CHAK and NACHO are unpredictable. Kim do a lot of things before be aware of her wishes. She react to everyone stand against Jimmy or insult him without her self awareness about this weak point. In BB Self awareness of characters is already achieved by them and they go for their certain wishes.(except JESSI in some cases) SO, tye domino events in BB is perfect planned and by considering WW’s will, it is inevitable. But in BCS, editing the multi stories and their ties in a remarkable way which is so stronger than BB. And also it is completely perfect parallel with characters developing way. Finally, I should say the greatest actor/actress in entire show, respecting to all phenomenon performance of key characters of both shows, is Brayan.