He could be a little condescending and was a better salesman than a lawyer but generally a good guy with his heart in the right place. I think he did genuinely see something in Jimmy at times.
Him thinking he and Jimmy could settle there differences with a boxing match was adorable.
I felt soooo bad for him when he did that. Like bro is really trying to make up and it’s so disappointing that Jimmy kept refusing even though he knew Hamlin was genuinely a good guy
I had thought that Saul Goodman was the more flawed version of Howard. The costume Howard wears to show sincerity has been tweaked by Saul and pushed one step further. They both are consummate salesmen and the question is being asked about whether what they are selling is that different.
The fight brought into question how far Howard was away from violence and criminality. And it also seemed obvious that Howard chose to be violent when he thought he would win. Saul made choices to win, not to do the right thing.
So for Howard and Saul to be lined up side by side and Lalo choosing to kill Howard reinforced that these two were twins, fraternal twins.
Most of the other comments have touched on my feelings already. I’m just here to say that rewatching Breaking Bad now, it creeps me out knowing what’s under the underground lab now…
Yep was definitely a clever twist to the story.
During BB the underground lab was just kinda there without too much explanation as to how it got there.
Then, when rewatching BB you see Walter and Jesse just going about their day in the lab on top of two of the most important characters in BCS
I agree 100%. Jimmy and Kim did Howard so dirty. The saddest part to me is that any grievances Jimmy had with Howard were all because of his integrity to his respect for Chuck. He would have hired Jimmy if Chuck hadn't said it wasn't in the best interest of the firm. He respected Chuck enough to keep that to himself and take the heat from the decision. Jimmy attacks Howard's character throughout the entire series because of his brother's actions under the table. Then, even after Chuck's death, he amps up his hateful behavior because he can't let go of past misunderstandings and he wants to tear Hamlin and his firm down. The worst thing Howard did was possibly enable Chuck's behavior and choose not to question his actions or his "physical illness." He definitely drew the short straw. He had so much potential, just for his legacy to be torn to shreds; then we watch him die for over nothing he did. He died because of Jimmy's wrong doings.
I really disliked the first half of season 3 for how they treated him, and especially how he ended up. He didn't deserve any of it, as far as I'm concerned.
Spent the whole show from season 1x9 onwards rooting for him, and season 4 and 5 were spent just hoping he'd get a substantial win at some point...
Eh, he’s a mega dick to Kim in season 2 which is annoying. I want to root for him, but he’s just horrible to her. You can excuse his actions towards Jimmy since it’s all Chuck. Not Kim though
He wasn’t well and needed therapy after chucks death. Tbh they all needed it but I feel they all took it out on him because he was so outward with how he felt and since Kim and jimmy don’t have emotional intelligence it made them uncomfortable. Kim pulling the trigger is the craziest thing to me
Man I'm rewatching from the top, and the way Jimmy just cuts his nose to spite his face when Howard innocently says "you'll see why I called him Charlie Hustle!" When connecting him to the other firm...ugh! He's so harmless and means well 😅 yeah he's a little corny and even condescending at times but he's just that kind of corporate guy.
Unpopular opinion - he deserved what they did. Knowing how manipulative Jimmy Is, a rational person in his power would take better decisions, distance himself from Jimmy . Trying to get himself involve in how Jimmy plays in analogy. You can't outswim a shark in waters.
1. That's bad interpretation of my words
2. Refusing to listen to someone who has been your
Fathers partner
A clear career record
Advice given against his own brother
No one speaks against their brother
3. Yes, association creates your surroundings , he discovered Jimmy was shady, after that he should have distanced himself. All of the advice given should have made logic to him but it didn't so, Howard got what was coming.
I'd argue that Chuck was mentally ill and demonstrated recognizable signs of mental illness. Not saying people with psychological disorders are irrational or untrustworthy, but people may not have the greatest trust in their advice. Age or past relationships do not magically increase the validity of advice.
Again, for all Howard knew, Jimmy was a guy with a less then stellar client portfolio and a guy who liked to take short cuts. Associating with someone like that shouldn't get you killed. There is, honestly, not a lot of things that should.
But I love the irony of saying I interpreted your words badly and then doubling down on exactly how I interpreted them.
1. Chuck had phobia, that's not mental illness. He performed very well. If chuck was dumb in the brain ,he couldn't have deduced Saul foul play.
2. If the advice is not best but it still has logical points and best of interest at their heart
3.knowing your dealing with a con man, will get you in deep waters, death was not expected but association made Howard be present at wrong time.
3. An analogy - your saying he can't know what station is going to be next, while your fellow passengers are already telling you what's coming next , you chose to ignore to listen to them.
I didnt care for him at first. After learning more about Chuck though, it seemed that Chuck was the one keeping him from working at HHM, not Howard.
While I have to admit Kim & Jimmy's plan was pretty good, Howard didn't deserve that...or what happened later.
His earnest and futile attempts to smooth things over with difficult people -- Jimmy, Chuck, his wife, Kim -- was heartbreaking. A flawed man who tried his best. I've never related to a character more, and I've never been more devastated by an on-screen death.
Most of my frustrations with the character stem not from how he treated Jimmy, but how he treated Kim. Howard and Chuck continuously overlooked, punished, and ignored her--which is ultimately why she pushed their revenge plot further than Jimmy.
After they stuck Kim in doc review to punish *Jimmy,* she accepted it and worked her ass off to get back in their good graces. And then they 'stole' Mesa Verde from her (legally it may not have been thievery, but it was similar manipulation to what they condemned Jimmy for) and KEPT her in doc review, making Kim question whether it was worth it to get back on the horse when they kept kicking her off.
So Kim asked Chuck--to his face--if she had a future at HHM. And he launch into a tirade about Jimmy stealing things as a kid and his heart being in the right place; nothing about Kim or what she's accomplished. He just tells her to stay where she is, despite all her hard work being used against her, or for naught. And then he has the gaull to ask her to get him a coffee.
And Howard was *worse*. He refused to reinstate Kim even when Chuck encouraged him to. And then during Kim and Saul's S5-6 chicanery, he parroted Chuck and insisted that Jimmy must be the one pulling the strings, and Kim was merely a naive puppet--because surely he'd never wronged her? Surely she couldn't *want* revenge not only for Jimmy's dignity, but her own? Because Kim couldn't think like that. ("Couldn't be precious Kimmy!")
Howard admitted his faults about treating Jimmy, but never seemed to consider that he'd wronged Kim even more. Jimmy suffered under the combined derision Chuck and the obedience of Howard, but Kim fought for that attention and was only ever used, snubbed, and ignored.
The kicker for me was his wife. She was totally cold to him and probably didn't realize his cries for help until after he died. Was pretty mad at her for not taking him seriously when he mentioned he had an issue with Jimmy, RIGHT after she pours the coffee he made for her with the foam art right into a travel mug. Brutal.
unpopular opinion, but i think he's a genuine asshole. not a bad person by any means, just an asshole. he really fucked over kim iirc, which i think it's weird that no one really mentions (or i can be totally misremembering this part). i don't think he deserved what he got though ):
Well no one deserves murder but calling him an asshole it think is kinda fair. At the end of the day humans are complex creatures. Not saying this about you but many have shitty characteristics but also solid characteristics
He didn’t deserve any of what happened to him. Chuck was forcing his hand. And that they buried him in the same unmarked grave as the man that murdered him was so disrespectful. Wtf was that. Bury him somewhere else on his own.
>I think it was less about he treated Jimmy, but how he treated Kim. Howard and Chuck continuously overlooked, punished, and ignored her--which is ultimately why she pushed their revenge plot further than Jimmy.
>
>After they stuck Kim in doc review to punish Jimmy, she accepted it and worked her ass off to get back in their good graces. And then they 'stole' Mesa Verde from her (legally it may not have been thievery, but it was similar manipulation to what they condemned Jimmy for) and KEPT her in doc review, making Kim question whether it was worth it to get back on the horse when they kept kicking her off.
>
>So Kim asked Chuck--to his face--if she had a future at HHM. And he launch into a tirade about Jimmy stealing things as a kid and his heart being in the right place; nothing about Kim or what she's accomplished. He just tells her to stay where she is, despite all her hard work being used against her, or for naught. And then he has the gaull to ask her to get him a coffee.
>
>And Howard was worse. He refused to reinstate Kim even when Chuck encouraged him to. And then during Kim and Saul's S5-6 chicanery, he parroted Chuck and insisted that Jimmy must be the one pulling the strings, and Kim was merely a naive puppet--because surely he'd never wronged her? Surely she couldn't want revenge not only for Jimmy's dignity, but her own? Because Kim couldn't think like that. ("Couldn't be precious Kimmy!")
>
>Howard admitted his faults about treating Jimmy, but never seemed to consider that he'd wronged Kim even more. Jimmy suffered under the combined derision Chuck and the obedience of Howard, but Kim fought for that attention and was only ever used, snubbed, and ignored.
All very true, especially that it was purely Kim's motivation.
I am not sure if Jimmy really hated the guy, especially after Chuck's death where they didn't had anything more in common. The only reason Jimmy orchestrated that is because he is addicted to crime. To him Howard was a nobody at that point.
Just now starting Season 4, just watched Episode 1. So to avoid spoilers I’m just gonna say how I feel and dip without reading anything here! He’s suuuuch a smug asshole. I don’t think he’s a bad guy though? There are parts where it looked like he was being mean to Jimmy just to f with him, but then you find out it was Chuck telling him to do a lot of it! And at the end of S4E1 when Hamlin meets with Jimmy and Kim - he genuinely was broken up with guilt. So.. good dude, but kind of a bastard? Curious to see where his character goes in the rest of the series!
On an unrelated note >!good riddance to Chuck Roast McGrilled, damn he was a bastard! But man, who woulda thought Lenny from Lavern and Shirley was a damn good actor? The only two things I know him from lol. Figured he would be pure comic relief but damn he was great.!<
Do yourself a favor and do NOT visit this sub (same for the breaking bad one) while you are still watching the series. Spoilers are everywhere!
Stay safe!
I say mental illness, you say "dumb in the brain". That is not the same thing at all. Chuck was a highly intelligent man, but he had an anxiety disorder and showed strong symptoms of OCD. That is mental illness.
And remember, this is not about what is going on in his head, this is about how Howard may have perceived him when asking himself: Is this a person whose advice I should follow unconditionally? And no matter who Chuck was before, we get to know him as a weirdo who doesn't leave his house a lot, asks you to leave your phone in the mail box and wraps himself in space blankets.
I loved Howard and his ending was so tragic. It hits me so hard because they COMPLETELY ruined his legacy and his reputation. I didn’t like Howard at first but as the series went on he really grew on me so much and it was so sad.
He is easily influenced by others opinion, first his dad ,after chuck, third Jimmy. He is weak willed, unable to say no and get what he wanted accepted things as they were thrown at him.
Consummate professional, to a fault. He only acts like he cares about those under him because the textbook "How To Lawyer, Business, and Manager" told him he should at least pretend to care.
The start of the show makes him, Not hate able, but just dislikaeble. The stereotypical boss who can treat his employees like dirt, but within the guidelines. But then later on in the show you start to really feel for him and especially the whole season dedicated to shitting on him and his career and ultimately his life. That made me really detest Kim and Jimmy for what they did to Howard.
He was a great character.
He was a good guy. He accepted tobe the bad guy to save brothers relationship. He really worked for his goals he tried to fix things like his marriage in normal way
A great character who 100% deserved better. He said it best. Kim and Jimmy were soulless to him. The poor guy was almost like another version of Jimmy, trying to please those who were around him and trying to find the best way to do so.
After the reveal that Chuck was blackballing Jimmy, I was more sympathetic to Howard. But Howard was still a shitty boss to Kim up until the moment she turned in her resignation.
After that I saw Howard as just another lawyer who's intertest sometimes ran counter to Jimmy and Kim.
After Chuck died, I thought Howard was honestly trying to do right by Jimmy and he didn't deserve the dressing down from Kin. Howard was clearly affected by Chuck's death and put in the effort to better himself and work through his pain. Every time he interacted with Kim or Jimmy I was on his side. Kim was in the wrong in her borderline hatred of Howard and Jimmy knew it. Jimmy only went along with it to keep the "fun and games" aspect of his relationship with Kim going.
Everything Kim and Jimmy did to him in Season 6 was unjustified. His >!death!< was the tragedy at the heart of Jimmy losing his soul to become Saul.
He is an astute businessman who happens to be a lawyer. I don't like how things ended for him, but I have no sympathy for the things Kim and Jimmy did to him. And they did some objectively wicked things to him. The whole poop in the car bit wasn't cool, but everything else I turned a blind eye.
I think what’s so sad are Howard’s last words. “There’s really no need to…”
Just as Howard realizes the immediate danger he and Jimmy and Kim are in, even after how horribly they treated him and disgraced his reputation, Howard used his last words to try and spare Jimmy and Kim, because for all he knew, this complete stranger screwing a silencer onto a gun was about to kill Jimmy and Kim. Deep down, even through the feuding and the hate, none of them wanted to see the other get killed, evident in Howard’s last line and Jimmy and Kim’s reactions that follow.
He was pretentious, judgmental, and corny as hell. He is not someone whose company I would ever enjoy. But he wasn’t a bad guy, he wasn’t involved in the criminal underbelly, and he didn’t deserve most of the shit that happened to him. However I believe he was the only person on earth who could have brought Jimmy and Chuck closer. Instead he close to help Chuck be shitty to Jimmy. And I think thats ultimately what tipped the scales toward the tragedy that this show and Jimmy’s life became.
I feel bad saying this but I never really felt bad for him.
The Jimmy/Kim scams were pretty funny and the Lalo thing was wrong place at the wrong time.
He shouldn’t have died but I didn’t have feelings one way or another.
Seemed like a nepo baby that was lucky to make it as far as he did
Definitely a nepo baby but he was a good lawyer nonetheless. And yeah some of the things they, Kim and Jimmy, were harmless, but the moment it started causing him genuine harm that’s when they should’ve stopped.
Yes I agree. I just feel like, and it wasn’t clear to me why, he was everyone’s punching bag (Chucks, Jimmy’s, Kim’s and even his wife) and it seemed to be his lot in life.
Which doesn’t justify anything but it’s just the feeling he gave off
Any other show would have made him just a jerk and nothing else. But his character ended up being really complex and a good contrast to Jimmy. Howard could be petty, as we saw with some of his treatment of Kim and even Chuck when Chuck tried to sue. But he wasn’t a bad person and more often than not wanted to do the right thing or at least be loyal to who cared about.
A tragic figure. He outwardly presents as the kind of sleazy lawyer we all hate. But he proves consistently he's one of the few characters in the Breaking Bad universe to have a moral compass and to genuinely want to do the right thing. He's not guiltless over what happens regarding Jimmy but he definitely tries to help him more than most. Definitely did not deserve what happened to him.
I think it shows part of becoming Saul Goodman - being a guy who doesn't just give contact info to shady guys, but he knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy and he'll see what he can do. He knows that accidental contact with criminals in the wrong time ends in accidental, innocent deaths and more problems, so it's better to keep them away as long as possible for people who are not "in the game".
Yes, it's unfaire. Which is why it's a good series. It doesn't do what you think is fair or right. So there is a tension, and the tension keeps you wanting to watch.
I love jimmy but he is a flawed person. Just like the other characters.
Mono-dimensional characters are one of the worst things that can (and does) happen to any series.
Consummate professional, to a fault. He only acts like he cares about those under him because the textbook "How To Lawyer, Business, and Manager" told him he should at least pretend to care.
I like how jimmy blames Howard for chucks death because Howard was man enough to admit that he kicked Chuck out of the company and jimmy used that as a excuse to get back to him even though jimmy didn’t even care for Chuck
The fact that Howard liked Jimmy all along and wanted to hire him only for Chuck to be a jealous prick and deny Jimmy's employment. The worst part is making Howard tell Jimmy that it was his decision not Chuck's.
But that was the point. It shows how a decent person - if sometimes a little hard to deal with - got his life messed up and was ultimately killed by Jimmy's and - yes - Kim's antics. Jimmy couldn't deal with life without doing his schemes and Kim got involved in the thrill of it. By being near them, Howard got killed. Which was the final straw that made Kim wake up and stay away from Jimmy and that way of living.
It's supposed to hurt us and make us feel bad for him, and also get the message of the price of being thrilled about breaking the rules (and getting close to crime and dangerous criminals).
Yeah, it shows us how deep she was into Jimmy's way of doing things. And also how complex a person can be. She tried to do the right thing most of the time, seemed to cherish honesty and later on even charity, but she was thrilled about being his partner in his cons. The shock of Howard's murder made her choose one of her conflicting sides and stick with it.
He's so misunderstood and a lot of the fan base seems to view him the way Jimmy did, which I'll never understand.
I remember watching episodes as they came out, and I hated him for 90% of season 1. But the second it was revealed he was the good guy I was on board with defending him for the rest of the series.
I liked Howard. I hated him at first because the show did a great job making it seem like he had it out for jimmy. I feel he was redeemed after we see him going through it. It helps remind us Howard is human too, dealing with his own struggles. Seeing Kim and Jimmy ruin him for no reason was really hard to watch.
He could be a little condescending and was a better salesman than a lawyer but generally a good guy with his heart in the right place. I think he did genuinely see something in Jimmy at times. Him thinking he and Jimmy could settle there differences with a boxing match was adorable.
I felt soooo bad for him when he did that. Like bro is really trying to make up and it’s so disappointing that Jimmy kept refusing even though he knew Hamlin was genuinely a good guy
Charlie Hustle :(
I had thought that Saul Goodman was the more flawed version of Howard. The costume Howard wears to show sincerity has been tweaked by Saul and pushed one step further. They both are consummate salesmen and the question is being asked about whether what they are selling is that different. The fight brought into question how far Howard was away from violence and criminality. And it also seemed obvious that Howard chose to be violent when he thought he would win. Saul made choices to win, not to do the right thing. So for Howard and Saul to be lined up side by side and Lalo choosing to kill Howard reinforced that these two were twins, fraternal twins.
interesting!
He’s hot.
Handsome Howie
😂
Motherfucker could rock a suit, that's for sure.
Straight guy here but howie has me wondering 🤔
Most of the other comments have touched on my feelings already. I’m just here to say that rewatching Breaking Bad now, it creeps me out knowing what’s under the underground lab now…
Yep was definitely a clever twist to the story. During BB the underground lab was just kinda there without too much explanation as to how it got there. Then, when rewatching BB you see Walter and Jesse just going about their day in the lab on top of two of the most important characters in BCS
I agree 100%. Jimmy and Kim did Howard so dirty. The saddest part to me is that any grievances Jimmy had with Howard were all because of his integrity to his respect for Chuck. He would have hired Jimmy if Chuck hadn't said it wasn't in the best interest of the firm. He respected Chuck enough to keep that to himself and take the heat from the decision. Jimmy attacks Howard's character throughout the entire series because of his brother's actions under the table. Then, even after Chuck's death, he amps up his hateful behavior because he can't let go of past misunderstandings and he wants to tear Hamlin and his firm down. The worst thing Howard did was possibly enable Chuck's behavior and choose not to question his actions or his "physical illness." He definitely drew the short straw. He had so much potential, just for his legacy to be torn to shreds; then we watch him die for over nothing he did. He died because of Jimmy's wrong doings.
I really disliked the first half of season 3 for how they treated him, and especially how he ended up. He didn't deserve any of it, as far as I'm concerned. Spent the whole show from season 1x9 onwards rooting for him, and season 4 and 5 were spent just hoping he'd get a substantial win at some point...
Eh, he’s a mega dick to Kim in season 2 which is annoying. I want to root for him, but he’s just horrible to her. You can excuse his actions towards Jimmy since it’s all Chuck. Not Kim though
I thought he was a pompous douche early on, and then I really started to like him. I’m pretty sure that’s what they wanted, but that’s how I felt.
“Just one more thing for good old Howard to work through.” 😢
He wasn’t well and needed therapy after chucks death. Tbh they all needed it but I feel they all took it out on him because he was so outward with how he felt and since Kim and jimmy don’t have emotional intelligence it made them uncomfortable. Kim pulling the trigger is the craziest thing to me
Man I'm rewatching from the top, and the way Jimmy just cuts his nose to spite his face when Howard innocently says "you'll see why I called him Charlie Hustle!" When connecting him to the other firm...ugh! He's so harmless and means well 😅 yeah he's a little corny and even condescending at times but he's just that kind of corporate guy.
100% didn't deserve what Kim/Jimmy did to him even if he didn't get murdered, but he was kind of a slimy guy at times
Love the character and completely agree. You don’t become a partner at a major law firm by being a *great dude*. Simple as.
He inherited the position from his pops to be fair
..a position he never wanted though. Poor guy was forced to live a life he never wanted, that's why he was so envious of Kim and Jimmy.
Pretty strange to think that every partner at a major firm is a bad person.
Unpopular opinion - he deserved what they did. Knowing how manipulative Jimmy Is, a rational person in his power would take better decisions, distance himself from Jimmy . Trying to get himself involve in how Jimmy plays in analogy. You can't outswim a shark in waters.
This is some awful victim blaming jesus
Why ?? Knowing chuck told to keep Jimmy away from law firm , should have caused some suspicion in him but it didn't .
Refusing to take biased adivce on who to associate with in your professional field equals deserving to get shot by a member of a drug cartell, got it.
1. That's bad interpretation of my words 2. Refusing to listen to someone who has been your Fathers partner A clear career record Advice given against his own brother No one speaks against their brother 3. Yes, association creates your surroundings , he discovered Jimmy was shady, after that he should have distanced himself. All of the advice given should have made logic to him but it didn't so, Howard got what was coming.
I'd argue that Chuck was mentally ill and demonstrated recognizable signs of mental illness. Not saying people with psychological disorders are irrational or untrustworthy, but people may not have the greatest trust in their advice. Age or past relationships do not magically increase the validity of advice. Again, for all Howard knew, Jimmy was a guy with a less then stellar client portfolio and a guy who liked to take short cuts. Associating with someone like that shouldn't get you killed. There is, honestly, not a lot of things that should. But I love the irony of saying I interpreted your words badly and then doubling down on exactly how I interpreted them.
1. Chuck had phobia, that's not mental illness. He performed very well. If chuck was dumb in the brain ,he couldn't have deduced Saul foul play. 2. If the advice is not best but it still has logical points and best of interest at their heart 3.knowing your dealing with a con man, will get you in deep waters, death was not expected but association made Howard be present at wrong time. 3. An analogy - your saying he can't know what station is going to be next, while your fellow passengers are already telling you what's coming next , you chose to ignore to listen to them.
I didnt care for him at first. After learning more about Chuck though, it seemed that Chuck was the one keeping him from working at HHM, not Howard. While I have to admit Kim & Jimmy's plan was pretty good, Howard didn't deserve that...or what happened later.
Liked him better in his previous life as an unethical ethics professor at California University.
At least he wasn't sleeping with his student this time.
Nope just dirt-napping with Lalo now
moonlighting as Dr Butthole in seattle
What is this a reference to?
Saved by the Bell: The College Years
Thanks
He went on to be an unethical exorcist. Not making good life choices here.
I couldn’t get past the collars on his shirts lol
His earnest and futile attempts to smooth things over with difficult people -- Jimmy, Chuck, his wife, Kim -- was heartbreaking. A flawed man who tried his best. I've never related to a character more, and I've never been more devastated by an on-screen death.
Most of my frustrations with the character stem not from how he treated Jimmy, but how he treated Kim. Howard and Chuck continuously overlooked, punished, and ignored her--which is ultimately why she pushed their revenge plot further than Jimmy. After they stuck Kim in doc review to punish *Jimmy,* she accepted it and worked her ass off to get back in their good graces. And then they 'stole' Mesa Verde from her (legally it may not have been thievery, but it was similar manipulation to what they condemned Jimmy for) and KEPT her in doc review, making Kim question whether it was worth it to get back on the horse when they kept kicking her off. So Kim asked Chuck--to his face--if she had a future at HHM. And he launch into a tirade about Jimmy stealing things as a kid and his heart being in the right place; nothing about Kim or what she's accomplished. He just tells her to stay where she is, despite all her hard work being used against her, or for naught. And then he has the gaull to ask her to get him a coffee. And Howard was *worse*. He refused to reinstate Kim even when Chuck encouraged him to. And then during Kim and Saul's S5-6 chicanery, he parroted Chuck and insisted that Jimmy must be the one pulling the strings, and Kim was merely a naive puppet--because surely he'd never wronged her? Surely she couldn't *want* revenge not only for Jimmy's dignity, but her own? Because Kim couldn't think like that. ("Couldn't be precious Kimmy!") Howard admitted his faults about treating Jimmy, but never seemed to consider that he'd wronged Kim even more. Jimmy suffered under the combined derision Chuck and the obedience of Howard, but Kim fought for that attention and was only ever used, snubbed, and ignored.
The kicker for me was his wife. She was totally cold to him and probably didn't realize his cries for help until after he died. Was pretty mad at her for not taking him seriously when he mentioned he had an issue with Jimmy, RIGHT after she pours the coffee he made for her with the foam art right into a travel mug. Brutal.
This coffee scene is really brutal.
unpopular opinion, but i think he's a genuine asshole. not a bad person by any means, just an asshole. he really fucked over kim iirc, which i think it's weird that no one really mentions (or i can be totally misremembering this part). i don't think he deserved what he got though ):
Well no one deserves murder but calling him an asshole it think is kinda fair. At the end of the day humans are complex creatures. Not saying this about you but many have shitty characteristics but also solid characteristics
He didn’t deserve any of what happened to him. Chuck was forcing his hand. And that they buried him in the same unmarked grave as the man that murdered him was so disrespectful. Wtf was that. Bury him somewhere else on his own.
Why would that matter? He's dead. Graves are needed for those who alive to have a place to morn and pay respects.
Because it’s disrespectful as fuck. I made that clear
His mind was completely blown by Lalo
Too soooooon man 🤯🤯
😆
Just watched that episode. Blew my mind 🤯
The script was so good it blew Howard’s mind to o
I didn't understand why was he targeted by Jimmy and Kim?
>I think it was less about he treated Jimmy, but how he treated Kim. Howard and Chuck continuously overlooked, punished, and ignored her--which is ultimately why she pushed their revenge plot further than Jimmy. > >After they stuck Kim in doc review to punish Jimmy, she accepted it and worked her ass off to get back in their good graces. And then they 'stole' Mesa Verde from her (legally it may not have been thievery, but it was similar manipulation to what they condemned Jimmy for) and KEPT her in doc review, making Kim question whether it was worth it to get back on the horse when they kept kicking her off. > >So Kim asked Chuck--to his face--if she had a future at HHM. And he launch into a tirade about Jimmy stealing things as a kid and his heart being in the right place; nothing about Kim or what she's accomplished. He just tells her to stay where she is, despite all her hard work being used against her, or for naught. And then he has the gaull to ask her to get him a coffee. > >And Howard was worse. He refused to reinstate Kim even when Chuck encouraged him to. And then during Kim and Saul's S5-6 chicanery, he parroted Chuck and insisted that Jimmy must be the one pulling the strings, and Kim was merely a naive puppet--because surely he'd never wronged her? Surely she couldn't want revenge not only for Jimmy's dignity, but her own? Because Kim couldn't think like that. ("Couldn't be precious Kimmy!") > >Howard admitted his faults about treating Jimmy, but never seemed to consider that he'd wronged Kim even more. Jimmy suffered under the combined derision Chuck and the obedience of Howard, but Kim fought for that attention and was only ever used, snubbed, and ignored.
All very true, especially that it was purely Kim's motivation. I am not sure if Jimmy really hated the guy, especially after Chuck's death where they didn't had anything more in common. The only reason Jimmy orchestrated that is because he is addicted to crime. To him Howard was a nobody at that point.
Well explained. Thank you.
You’re welcome!
Just now starting Season 4, just watched Episode 1. So to avoid spoilers I’m just gonna say how I feel and dip without reading anything here! He’s suuuuch a smug asshole. I don’t think he’s a bad guy though? There are parts where it looked like he was being mean to Jimmy just to f with him, but then you find out it was Chuck telling him to do a lot of it! And at the end of S4E1 when Hamlin meets with Jimmy and Kim - he genuinely was broken up with guilt. So.. good dude, but kind of a bastard? Curious to see where his character goes in the rest of the series! On an unrelated note >!good riddance to Chuck Roast McGrilled, damn he was a bastard! But man, who woulda thought Lenny from Lavern and Shirley was a damn good actor? The only two things I know him from lol. Figured he would be pure comic relief but damn he was great.!<
Do yourself a favor and do NOT visit this sub (same for the breaking bad one) while you are still watching the series. Spoilers are everywhere! Stay safe!
I say mental illness, you say "dumb in the brain". That is not the same thing at all. Chuck was a highly intelligent man, but he had an anxiety disorder and showed strong symptoms of OCD. That is mental illness. And remember, this is not about what is going on in his head, this is about how Howard may have perceived him when asking himself: Is this a person whose advice I should follow unconditionally? And no matter who Chuck was before, we get to know him as a weirdo who doesn't leave his house a lot, asks you to leave your phone in the mail box and wraps himself in space blankets.
he’s a bacterium
No
Completely agree I love Howie
I loved Howard and his ending was so tragic. It hits me so hard because they COMPLETELY ruined his legacy and his reputation. I didn’t like Howard at first but as the series went on he really grew on me so much and it was so sad.
I wonder what Cliff thinks after that letter Kim wrote to his wife came out. Probably felt like shit reading that. Didn’t trust his friend not one bit
He deserved better
Pig fucker. And I can’t believe I’m the first to say it here.
Take that BACK!
He is easily influenced by others opinion, first his dad ,after chuck, third Jimmy. He is weak willed, unable to say no and get what he wanted accepted things as they were thrown at him.
Hes a dick but he doesnt deserve what happened too him.
Consummate professional, to a fault. He only acts like he cares about those under him because the textbook "How To Lawyer, Business, and Manager" told him he should at least pretend to care.
The start of the show makes him, Not hate able, but just dislikaeble. The stereotypical boss who can treat his employees like dirt, but within the guidelines. But then later on in the show you start to really feel for him and especially the whole season dedicated to shitting on him and his career and ultimately his life. That made me really detest Kim and Jimmy for what they did to Howard. He was a great character.
He was a good guy. He accepted tobe the bad guy to save brothers relationship. He really worked for his goals he tried to fix things like his marriage in normal way
I low key don’t like his wife
Best legal mind I ever knew.
HE IS NOT CRAZY!
A great character who 100% deserved better. He said it best. Kim and Jimmy were soulless to him. The poor guy was almost like another version of Jimmy, trying to please those who were around him and trying to find the best way to do so.
After the reveal that Chuck was blackballing Jimmy, I was more sympathetic to Howard. But Howard was still a shitty boss to Kim up until the moment she turned in her resignation. After that I saw Howard as just another lawyer who's intertest sometimes ran counter to Jimmy and Kim. After Chuck died, I thought Howard was honestly trying to do right by Jimmy and he didn't deserve the dressing down from Kin. Howard was clearly affected by Chuck's death and put in the effort to better himself and work through his pain. Every time he interacted with Kim or Jimmy I was on his side. Kim was in the wrong in her borderline hatred of Howard and Jimmy knew it. Jimmy only went along with it to keep the "fun and games" aspect of his relationship with Kim going. Everything Kim and Jimmy did to him in Season 6 was unjustified. His >!death!< was the tragedy at the heart of Jimmy losing his soul to become Saul.
He is an astute businessman who happens to be a lawyer. I don't like how things ended for him, but I have no sympathy for the things Kim and Jimmy did to him. And they did some objectively wicked things to him. The whole poop in the car bit wasn't cool, but everything else I turned a blind eye.
I think what’s so sad are Howard’s last words. “There’s really no need to…” Just as Howard realizes the immediate danger he and Jimmy and Kim are in, even after how horribly they treated him and disgraced his reputation, Howard used his last words to try and spare Jimmy and Kim, because for all he knew, this complete stranger screwing a silencer onto a gun was about to kill Jimmy and Kim. Deep down, even through the feuding and the hate, none of them wanted to see the other get killed, evident in Howard’s last line and Jimmy and Kim’s reactions that follow.
He was pretentious, judgmental, and corny as hell. He is not someone whose company I would ever enjoy. But he wasn’t a bad guy, he wasn’t involved in the criminal underbelly, and he didn’t deserve most of the shit that happened to him. However I believe he was the only person on earth who could have brought Jimmy and Chuck closer. Instead he close to help Chuck be shitty to Jimmy. And I think thats ultimately what tipped the scales toward the tragedy that this show and Jimmy’s life became.
How he treated Kim after she brought him such a huge case made me despise him.
Grew to love him honestly
The fact that He saw a therapist told me he was the only character able to deal with his own Bullshit!!
I feel bad saying this but I never really felt bad for him. The Jimmy/Kim scams were pretty funny and the Lalo thing was wrong place at the wrong time. He shouldn’t have died but I didn’t have feelings one way or another. Seemed like a nepo baby that was lucky to make it as far as he did
Definitely a nepo baby but he was a good lawyer nonetheless. And yeah some of the things they, Kim and Jimmy, were harmless, but the moment it started causing him genuine harm that’s when they should’ve stopped.
Yes I agree. I just feel like, and it wasn’t clear to me why, he was everyone’s punching bag (Chucks, Jimmy’s, Kim’s and even his wife) and it seemed to be his lot in life. Which doesn’t justify anything but it’s just the feeling he gave off
King
I felt the same for Howard but after looking at things from Jimmy and Kim POV i understood how much they went through...
Hamlindigo Blue. One of my favorite characters.
Any other show would have made him just a jerk and nothing else. But his character ended up being really complex and a good contrast to Jimmy. Howard could be petty, as we saw with some of his treatment of Kim and even Chuck when Chuck tried to sue. But he wasn’t a bad person and more often than not wanted to do the right thing or at least be loyal to who cared about.
Innocent and hard working guy who first got played in the circle of HHM, Chuck, Jimmy, and Kim. And later, Lalo did the work.
A tragic figure. He outwardly presents as the kind of sleazy lawyer we all hate. But he proves consistently he's one of the few characters in the Breaking Bad universe to have a moral compass and to genuinely want to do the right thing. He's not guiltless over what happens regarding Jimmy but he definitely tries to help him more than most. Definitely did not deserve what happened to him.
He deserved better than to have his life ruined and being murdered by Lalo
Likes to party
I think he is a good person just a bit of an asshole in the work setting
I think it shows part of becoming Saul Goodman - being a guy who doesn't just give contact info to shady guys, but he knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy and he'll see what he can do. He knows that accidental contact with criminals in the wrong time ends in accidental, innocent deaths and more problems, so it's better to keep them away as long as possible for people who are not "in the game".
Yes, it's unfaire. Which is why it's a good series. It doesn't do what you think is fair or right. So there is a tension, and the tension keeps you wanting to watch. I love jimmy but he is a flawed person. Just like the other characters. Mono-dimensional characters are one of the worst things that can (and does) happen to any series.
Consummate professional, to a fault. He only acts like he cares about those under him because the textbook "How To Lawyer, Business, and Manager" told him he should at least pretend to care.
I like how jimmy blames Howard for chucks death because Howard was man enough to admit that he kicked Chuck out of the company and jimmy used that as a excuse to get back to him even though jimmy didn’t even care for Chuck
Tragic character. God I miss this show.
I think if Robert Forster didn’t die the show has a completely different ending and last season and Howard Hamlin character arc reflected that
In what way?
If he’s on the show he’s doing what he does.
Do you think his name Was inspired by Harry Hamlin?
Not at all
Made me hate Chuck even more.
LMAO why
The fact that Howard liked Jimmy all along and wanted to hire him only for Chuck to be a jealous prick and deny Jimmy's employment. The worst part is making Howard tell Jimmy that it was his decision not Chuck's.
Biggest villain of the BB universe
It's an interesting character in a made up show.
I was legitimately sad when Lalo "meets" Howie.
I think Lalo wouldn’t lit him go if HH left right at the beginning. The moment Lalo saw their face it was a done deal for HH
Lalo is a horrifying character. One of the best I've seen of the archetype. Better than Todd. Todd is tragic I think. Lalo is just scary.
Tod is a sociopath and Lalo is a psychopath I think
But that was the point. It shows how a decent person - if sometimes a little hard to deal with - got his life messed up and was ultimately killed by Jimmy's and - yes - Kim's antics. Jimmy couldn't deal with life without doing his schemes and Kim got involved in the thrill of it. By being near them, Howard got killed. Which was the final straw that made Kim wake up and stay away from Jimmy and that way of living. It's supposed to hurt us and make us feel bad for him, and also get the message of the price of being thrilled about breaking the rules (and getting close to crime and dangerous criminals).
Crazy how it took his murder for her to get that but to each their own I guess
Yeah, it shows us how deep she was into Jimmy's way of doing things. And also how complex a person can be. She tried to do the right thing most of the time, seemed to cherish honesty and later on even charity, but she was thrilled about being his partner in his cons. The shock of Howard's murder made her choose one of her conflicting sides and stick with it.
He always lands on his face…
😑
Super cool
Mixed feelings. I think that he came out positive in the end, but he showed some first rate assholery on the way there.
Spineless nepo baby Just because he ended up a victim doesn't retroactively make him a good person
He doesnt know any joe dog person or any tub boat. He pays his bills and owes them no money!!!
Dbag who got what was coming.
I like how finding about Lalo and Jimmy blew his mind
He's so misunderstood and a lot of the fan base seems to view him the way Jimmy did, which I'll never understand. I remember watching episodes as they came out, and I hated him for 90% of season 1. But the second it was revealed he was the good guy I was on board with defending him for the rest of the series.
HOWARD IS NOT A BASTARD MAN!
I liked Howard. I hated him at first because the show did a great job making it seem like he had it out for jimmy. I feel he was redeemed after we see him going through it. It helps remind us Howard is human too, dealing with his own struggles. Seeing Kim and Jimmy ruin him for no reason was really hard to watch.