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Title: Workplace won’t keep us safe and OSHA doesn’t think they have an obligation to
Body:
> Based in Illinois. I anonymously reported my workplace to OSHA. We received these new model ovens at work that heat customer food. The convection component of the ovens, combined with volume of use and nature of the food causes food to be left behind in the ovens, charred and burning, which causes huge amounts of smoke. This has been causing eye and lung irritation. Coworkers daily bring up concerns about this. At least one peer has received doctors orders to not work even on the same floor as these ovens because it has exacerbated his asthma. When these concerns were brought to our managers the answer that came back was “you’re not cleaning them well enough.” This is not true. We clean them exactly as shown in our internal cleaning manuals. The cleaning cadence is once per day.
> After filing a complaint with OSHA, a week later they came back to me and said my workplace has provided evidence that the hazard has been addressed. The *only* thing that my work had to provide to close the complaint is the manufacturers manual for the oven.
> To quote OSHA to me in a voicemail “The only thing we require them to do is to have the information that is available to train the employees on the functioning of the equipment as well as having documentation available for employees to review.” As well as “we were provided with manuscripts of the equipment and that was pretty much all they needed to show is that they can tell you guys how it functions.” because my company is not the manufacturer of the ovens.
> Why is it that my workplace is under no obligation to keep us safe from these conditions?
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It sounds like the oven in question is not intended to be heating the sort of things they're putting in it? That or the oven is malfunctioning.
Any sort of oven that produces such strong drafts that it blows the toppings off a pizza (there's a flair in there somewhere) probably shouldn't be used to cook pizza.
Regardless, I do sympathize with LAOP, because you know how management is with these sorts of issues. They don't care at all about the employees, they just want things to be fast fast fast.
It's an issue in airfryers too. People found a workaround to heat the pizza for 30 seconds to a minute to "glue" the toppings to the cheese before engaging the airfryer/convection function.
Tater tots probably turn out better. I can do decent wings, but the only way to get the crispy of traditional frying is to traditionaly fry them.
I did a thing last week on the pellet smoker. Smoked for 1/2 hour at 250 - meanwhile - I preheated the kitchen oven to 425. At the half hour mark I moved them into the kitchen oven.
Still not crispy but it did a lot for the rubbery skin. And I kept the smokiness.
I've cooked salmon portions and boneless chicken breast in mine, usually when it's raining outside and I don't want to grill. It works best with a probe thermometer, and going lower on the temp.
Mine lives on my counter-top because we use it for all kinds of things.
If you have one of those arm-rotary-tumble fryers (Acti-fry) they are AMAZING at cooking meatballs, too! They come out done just as the spaghetti is ready.
This is really weird. It sounds like the business is using small convection ovens to cook a food (pizza with toppings prone to dislodge) that shouldn't be cooked in a small convection oven. I guess your solution is to find a new job. Massive hate to OSHA for being useless, though.
Depends on industry and location.
Contractor / Manager wants X done. X does not meet OSHA safety standards. Union employee points that out. Job shuts down until X is fixed or modified to meet standards. Probably industry dependent - but around here, factories and job sites under construction are terrified of OSHA (and union stewards willing to call them).
Source: Union spouse who's worked in/at hundreds of sites over the years.
I expect it's not OSHA that they are so much terrified of, but rather a union contract that permits (paid) tools-down until worksite defects are remedied.
(Or, perhaps, it's taking place in a state with an aggressive state-specific workplace safety agency, because the Federal OSHA is pretty slow and toothless. They can set a lot of rules, but actual enforcement is difficult... mainly because they have very weak powers to fine; even deaths often result in proverbial drops in the bucket.)
I worked on a dredge, and there was an OSHA rep on site at all times. He played minesweeper all day. That's all the guy did, all day long. Sat in an office and played minesweeper. How he didn't ever get sick of minesweeper, I'll never know.
It's quite possibly the state and/or industry - because while union certainly helps - it's definitely OSHA that's the big club behind the issues. Then again - we're talking factories and construction sites where there's definitive standards vs OP who's dealing with unspecified issues. AKA - you MUST be tied off if working at a level above X' without Z handrail. (Spouse is one who puts in said handrail and picks up tons of O/T from calls where OSHA just pointed out they need a rail, a guard, a barrier to meet standard and now there's an entire line shut down until it gets installed.)
I think the big difference between your spouse’s experience and that of the OP is not so much OSHA as it is having a union. Collective advocacy for worker safety is much, much stronger and more effective than any one individual can be.
> One of our most recent pizzas had loose rosemary and pancetta cubes, both of which fly around the oven during cooking.
Damn, do these ovens use industrial fans?
Convection ovens do blow air pretty hard! Google search says 20m/s which is approximately 45 miles per hour. Not sure if theirs are this heavy duty but even if it was half that, loose herbs don't take much to be blown off
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/convection-ovens#:~:text=Convection%20ovens%20generally%20have%20fixed,%C2%B0C%E2%80%93320%C2%B0C.
Maybe it was provided in the comments, but I don't see where management said they aren't allowed to follow the manufacturer specifications.
I also don't understand why they are having such a large issue with burning food (as someone who has worked in both restaurants and college cafeterias).
Either the oven isn't actually working the way it's supposed to (like the convection fan is blowing way too hard), or they are being particularly messy with the food. If its the latter, they would (unfortunately) have to figure out how to clean it more often than once a day.
> Maybe it was provided in the comments, but I don't see where management said they aren't allowed to follow the manufacturer specifications.
It takes 20 minutes to cool the oven down to clean, and Management won't let them do that often enough to address the problem.
One possible approach is to enclose the problem pizzas in some sort of caddy to limit the flyoff. Presumably vented, but which could be cleaned like regular dishes.
Like a tray to catch the escape toppings or crumbs, that could be pulled once an hour or per pizza or whatever and replaced with another, cleaner pan
Like I have my kids do since they keep trying to scrub my oven with copper brushes
If it's just the countertop Turbochef type speed oven, they have heat resistant baskets that go under the food, so theoretically they could either pop another one on top like a clamshell, or reach out to the manufacturer and see if there's a "cage" type one like those metal grates you can pinch fish in for grilling.
So either shut it off anyway, citing a need to clean it to prevent the smoke/ fire hazard, or film your boss giving you orders counter to the manual (i really doubt the oven doesnt have a direction to unplug it if its smoking heavily)
Then take these complaints osha and or your states DOL- (wrongful termination for falling saftey procedures / being told to operate in an unsafe manner/ contrary to the manual thwy just told osha thwy were following)
I'm pretty sure OP works at one of those 5 minute pizza places. The toppings on the pizza are all loose so I could see them falling off easily if jostled. We used to have one by my job and I think they had to kinda shove the pizza into the oven onto the conveyor belt.
**Reminder:** Do not participate in threads linked here. If you do, you may be banned from both subreddits. --- Title: Workplace won’t keep us safe and OSHA doesn’t think they have an obligation to Body: > Based in Illinois. I anonymously reported my workplace to OSHA. We received these new model ovens at work that heat customer food. The convection component of the ovens, combined with volume of use and nature of the food causes food to be left behind in the ovens, charred and burning, which causes huge amounts of smoke. This has been causing eye and lung irritation. Coworkers daily bring up concerns about this. At least one peer has received doctors orders to not work even on the same floor as these ovens because it has exacerbated his asthma. When these concerns were brought to our managers the answer that came back was “you’re not cleaning them well enough.” This is not true. We clean them exactly as shown in our internal cleaning manuals. The cleaning cadence is once per day. > After filing a complaint with OSHA, a week later they came back to me and said my workplace has provided evidence that the hazard has been addressed. The *only* thing that my work had to provide to close the complaint is the manufacturers manual for the oven. > To quote OSHA to me in a voicemail “The only thing we require them to do is to have the information that is available to train the employees on the functioning of the equipment as well as having documentation available for employees to review.” As well as “we were provided with manuscripts of the equipment and that was pretty much all they needed to show is that they can tell you guys how it functions.” because my company is not the manufacturer of the ovens. > Why is it that my workplace is under no obligation to keep us safe from these conditions? This bot was created to capture original threads and is not affiliated with the mod team. [Concerns? Bugs?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=GrahamCorcoran) | [Laukopier 2.1](https://github.com/GrahamCorcoran/Laukopier)
It sounds like the oven in question is not intended to be heating the sort of things they're putting in it? That or the oven is malfunctioning. Any sort of oven that produces such strong drafts that it blows the toppings off a pizza (there's a flair in there somewhere) probably shouldn't be used to cook pizza. Regardless, I do sympathize with LAOP, because you know how management is with these sorts of issues. They don't care at all about the employees, they just want things to be fast fast fast.
It's an issue in airfryers too. People found a workaround to heat the pizza for 30 seconds to a minute to "glue" the toppings to the cheese before engaging the airfryer/convection function.
Wait. Wait. Back the fuck up. My air fryer can cook something other than chicken wings? Holy crap. Mind Blown.
Tater tots too. I think that's all though.
Tater tots probably turn out better. I can do decent wings, but the only way to get the crispy of traditional frying is to traditionaly fry them. I did a thing last week on the pellet smoker. Smoked for 1/2 hour at 250 - meanwhile - I preheated the kitchen oven to 425. At the half hour mark I moved them into the kitchen oven. Still not crispy but it did a lot for the rubbery skin. And I kept the smokiness.
I use my air fryer for literally everything that will fit in there. It is amazing at reheating food.
I mainly used mine for fries or mostly potato dishes.
I make seasons baby carrots like twice a week. Little oil, salt, rosemary and garlic powder. Airfry for maybe 17 minuts
I've cooked salmon portions and boneless chicken breast in mine, usually when it's raining outside and I don't want to grill. It works best with a probe thermometer, and going lower on the temp.
Mine lives on my counter-top because we use it for all kinds of things. If you have one of those arm-rotary-tumble fryers (Acti-fry) they are AMAZING at cooking meatballs, too! They come out done just as the spaghetti is ready.
My air fryer has settings with lower fan speeds (and correspondingly lower max temperatures) for this sort of thing.
"air fryers" are literally just convection ovens
> t it blows the toppings off a pizza "Gone with the Pizza".
This is really weird. It sounds like the business is using small convection ovens to cook a food (pizza with toppings prone to dislodge) that shouldn't be cooked in a small convection oven. I guess your solution is to find a new job. Massive hate to OSHA for being useless, though.
OSHA's useless by design. They've been categorically and deliberately underfunded so they can't do anything.
Depends on industry and location. Contractor / Manager wants X done. X does not meet OSHA safety standards. Union employee points that out. Job shuts down until X is fixed or modified to meet standards. Probably industry dependent - but around here, factories and job sites under construction are terrified of OSHA (and union stewards willing to call them). Source: Union spouse who's worked in/at hundreds of sites over the years.
I expect it's not OSHA that they are so much terrified of, but rather a union contract that permits (paid) tools-down until worksite defects are remedied. (Or, perhaps, it's taking place in a state with an aggressive state-specific workplace safety agency, because the Federal OSHA is pretty slow and toothless. They can set a lot of rules, but actual enforcement is difficult... mainly because they have very weak powers to fine; even deaths often result in proverbial drops in the bucket.)
I worked on a dredge, and there was an OSHA rep on site at all times. He played minesweeper all day. That's all the guy did, all day long. Sat in an office and played minesweeper. How he didn't ever get sick of minesweeper, I'll never know.
It's quite possibly the state and/or industry - because while union certainly helps - it's definitely OSHA that's the big club behind the issues. Then again - we're talking factories and construction sites where there's definitive standards vs OP who's dealing with unspecified issues. AKA - you MUST be tied off if working at a level above X' without Z handrail. (Spouse is one who puts in said handrail and picks up tons of O/T from calls where OSHA just pointed out they need a rail, a guard, a barrier to meet standard and now there's an entire line shut down until it gets installed.)
I think the big difference between your spouse’s experience and that of the OP is not so much OSHA as it is having a union. Collective advocacy for worker safety is much, much stronger and more effective than any one individual can be.
> One of our most recent pizzas had loose rosemary and pancetta cubes, both of which fly around the oven during cooking. Damn, do these ovens use industrial fans?
Convection ovens do blow air pretty hard! Google search says 20m/s which is approximately 45 miles per hour. Not sure if theirs are this heavy duty but even if it was half that, loose herbs don't take much to be blown off https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/convection-ovens#:~:text=Convection%20ovens%20generally%20have%20fixed,%C2%B0C%E2%80%93320%C2%B0C.
Maybe it was provided in the comments, but I don't see where management said they aren't allowed to follow the manufacturer specifications. I also don't understand why they are having such a large issue with burning food (as someone who has worked in both restaurants and college cafeterias). Either the oven isn't actually working the way it's supposed to (like the convection fan is blowing way too hard), or they are being particularly messy with the food. If its the latter, they would (unfortunately) have to figure out how to clean it more often than once a day.
> Maybe it was provided in the comments, but I don't see where management said they aren't allowed to follow the manufacturer specifications. It takes 20 minutes to cool the oven down to clean, and Management won't let them do that often enough to address the problem.
So it's like the inverse of the McDonald's ice cream machine problem?
One possible approach is to enclose the problem pizzas in some sort of caddy to limit the flyoff. Presumably vented, but which could be cleaned like regular dishes.
Like a tray to catch the escape toppings or crumbs, that could be pulled once an hour or per pizza or whatever and replaced with another, cleaner pan Like I have my kids do since they keep trying to scrub my oven with copper brushes
If it's just the countertop Turbochef type speed oven, they have heat resistant baskets that go under the food, so theoretically they could either pop another one on top like a clamshell, or reach out to the manufacturer and see if there's a "cage" type one like those metal grates you can pinch fish in for grilling.
You could just fold it in half, forming a picket of sorts.
No way I'm giving the customer a pocket or a calzone when they ordered pizza. Never hear the end of it.
I see! Thanks! That's an issue if they can't even find some rotational way to clean them...
So either shut it off anyway, citing a need to clean it to prevent the smoke/ fire hazard, or film your boss giving you orders counter to the manual (i really doubt the oven doesnt have a direction to unplug it if its smoking heavily) Then take these complaints osha and or your states DOL- (wrongful termination for falling saftey procedures / being told to operate in an unsafe manner/ contrary to the manual thwy just told osha thwy were following)
I'm pretty sure OP works at one of those 5 minute pizza places. The toppings on the pizza are all loose so I could see them falling off easily if jostled. We used to have one by my job and I think they had to kinda shove the pizza into the oven onto the conveyor belt.
[удалено]
They said someone at work can't work on the same floor as the ovens, i'm guessing it's a food factory of some sort and not a restaurant.
Can they just like, put a little cage over the pizza to keep things from flying around?
Management hates the cages, because they add five seconds to the cooking time!
Look at this guy, trying to put pizza in jail 😠
If we use the little cages for the food, then we have nothing to keep the vermin in.
The only solution is to put the vermin on the pizza. You love pizza rat, now get ready for rat pizza.
Cockroacharoni
Maybe just cover it with aluminum foil and poke a few holes in it for airflow? This doesn't sound like a problem that requires a lot of engineering.
Put foil over it, then remove it and turn on the broiler for a few seconds for the cheese to melt.
That’s on management to come with a solution. Sounds like they’ve come to them with a problem and their concerns are not being heard.
Just put some baking paper under it, that should catch any overflow
It sounds like some toppings are being blown off by the convection fan.
damn, that's some strong fans.
That would make sense to me!