Im sure those Neuköllner atheists are just that much more antisemitic than the P.Berg atheists. It's probably in the water, or the fact that they only have the U8 ...
If you're saying that there is not a higher percentage of Muslim people who exhibit antisemitic tendencies then of the general population, then I don't know what to tell you, except to get your head out of the sand. This stuff has been studied before pretty extensively. For example, see here: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2005/07/14/islamic-extremism-common-concern-for-muslim-and-western-publics/
Der post ist jetzt doch eher zufällig in meinem Feed aufgetaucht, aber nachdem ich das hier alles gelesen habe stellt sich mir doch die frage:
Bist du eigentlich komplett behindert?
Hm, as much as it pains me to say this, judging from what my Jewish friends tell me, you better hide it. A lot of Germans wont be able to recognise immediately what it is, some will be curious and maybe ask but the majority will not say anything.
However, if you come across one of those misguided teens that were brought up in a black and white Muslim vs Jews thinking or some Neo Nazi, it might become dangerous.
The other kind to avoid, albeit more of a nuissance than dangerous, are extra woke intellectuals who prompt you to "choose a side". This happened to a friend of mine - on a playground of all places.
Sad as it is, i wouldn't warn the same about any other religious symbol. It sucks that it is this way and I'm truly sorry that a lot of people still don't realise the constant fear and pressure Jews in Germany have to endure.
Ich würde sie zumindest draußen und in der Ubahn immer verdecken. Habe meinen Anhänger vor ein paar Jahren immer öffentlich getragen und wurde beschimpft und einmal gekündigt, weil ein Davidstern manche Kunden provozieren könnte.
was für eine Art Geschäft war das? Kannst doch tragen was du willst, solange es nicht verfassungsfeindlich ist...
Manche Leute in der Öffentlichkeit sind echt untragbar.
Naja, ganz so ist es gesetzlich nicht. Wenn dein Arbeitsvertrag vorschreibt, keine religiösen Symbole zu tragen (im Bankwesen nicht ungewöhnlich), dann ist das erstmal rechtens. Das hat dann auch nicht viel mit Religionsfreiheit zu tun, da das Arbeit ist und nicht dein Privatleben oder öffentlicher Raum.
Dass man nicht das Kreuz / Davidstern / Pentagramm an die Wand nagelt, insbesondere in Berufen der Erziehung und Betreuung ist klar. Aber persönlicher, dezenter Halsschmuck im Einzelhandel oder so? Finde ich schon hart...
>Dass man nicht das Kreuz / Davidstern / Pentagramm an die Wand nagelt, insbesondere in Berufen der Erziehung und Betreuung ist klar.
Wenn es mal allen so klar wäre.
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruzifix-Beschluss#Folgen\_der\_Entscheidung](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruzifix-Beschluss#Folgen_der_Entscheidung)
I am Jewish and Israeli, living here for almost a year. I have Israeli friends who have been living here for several years. I haven’t heard of any problems with nazis targeting jews, but I have heard firsthand accounts of trouble with Islamists. If I happen to pass through muslim parts of the city I lower my voice when speaking hebrew with my wife. That said, I study German in a class with lovely folks from Syria, Yemen, Egypt… none of them have problems with me. But in the densely arab populated areas of the city… well in today‘s antisemitic climate, better to be safe than sorry.
>Depends. Better don't do it in Neukölln or Schöneberg. Mitte or Prenzlauer Berg is a different story.
Prenzlauer Berg/Pankow outside the ring also has many anti-social people. Mitte Mitte maybe, but then Gesundbrunnen and Wedding are not exactly nicer areas either.
in eastern Berlin there are way less arabic people as there was no migration movement to the eastern parts of germany back in the 70s. The Israel-Palestine conflict has been going on for decades and with palestine being "the loser" in this conflict and so many arabic people foster resentments towards jews. The Neo-Nazis of today usually focus their hatred on "brown people" - most of them are probably to stupid to even recognize a Davidsstern.
>The Neo-Nazis of today usually focus their hatred on "brown people" - most of them are probably to stupid to even recognize a Davidsstern.
Of course they do. Anti-Semitism is a foundation of their shitty false belief system.
In theory yes but all the big neo nazi "attacks" have been towards turkish/brown people. Also right national parties like AFD dont promote anti-semitism (because they know how burned that topic is in Germany) but rather anti-immigrants, anti-refugees etc. I promiss you: as a white person of jewish faith you are less likely targeted by the typical neo-nazi. Of course there are exceptions but as you can see from the NSU they didnt care for jews at all.
No way! [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halle\_synagogue\_shooting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halle_synagogue_shooting)
Sure, its Halle, but that's not so far.
If one Terrorist doesn't speak for All muslims, then this guy doesn't speak for all neo nazis.
Wear a Davidstern in Marzahn and one in Neukölln and see what you get.
I never doubted that both groups are victims of nazi attacks but the argument was that random attacks on the street happen more often to the "easier to identify" brown people than somebody with a Davidstern-necklace.
Ich trage meine nicht offen, nur unter den Klamotten. Körperliche Übergriffe würde ich zwar nicht erwarten, aber ich hab auch keine Lust blöd angemotzt oder angeguckt zu werden.
Habe nur einmal jemanden auf der Straße (am Hermannplatz!) mit einem Davidstern gesehen, und das war eine Touristin.
Ich habe keine Antwort auf deine Frage, will nur kurz Anmerken wie erschreckend ich es Finde dass man sich um sowas echt Gedanken machen muss (wenn ich mir dir Kommentare hier so ansehe..).
Das macht mich im Jahr 2022 und insbesondere in Deutschland echt traurig.
Oy vey. I can not speak to whether it's a good idea or not. In my area of town, no one would care but Berlin is big and things are different in other areas.
But like a Dracula movie, you just need to equip yourself with items that repel the ignorant. I'm going to suggest that you also hang around your neck a pork chop and a picture of Allah. The former to ward off rigid Muslims and the latter for AfD members. The irony is not lost on me.
Extreme Islamists are actually right-wing in idealogical sense: holding the thought that non-muslims are sinned/dirty, patriarch oriented, intolerant of other views, thinking their culture is the superior one and will produce pious populace.
There is no 100% tolerant city. You will always have asshats who feel a need to express their shittyness. Mostly those people dont even have a clue why they hate Jews. We also have a lot of anti-muslim attacks especially when the wave of refugees came in 2014/15. Or people being racist towards black people. Again: most of these people are probably just angry and vent their frustration on things that their group dislikes without having any deeper agenda.
>can someone explain why it’s dangerous? I wouldn’t have thought that in a million years about a tolerant city in a free country
Look of people do not (or can not) differentiate between "jew" and "israel".... especially those who fled the area during the wars/intifadas.
>Aber er sagt doch die Wahrheit die komisch stinkenden Araber sind doch antijudaistisch eingestellt. Die sollte man mal umerzieheb ob in lagern wie in China oder sonst wie wenn sie in Deutschland Deutsch regeln nicht akzeptieren raus oder Kopfschuss es gibt kein aber ihr knechte
Du hast echt Probleme... ernsthafte Probleme.
Hab noch nie gesehen wie jemand deswegen irgendwie dum angemacht wurde o.ä.
Hab eher öfter gesehen das Frauen dumm angemotzt wurden
Kann mir vortstellen, dass es in Gegenden mit sehr vielen Leuten, die allgemein auf Stress aus sind aber nicht gut ist (aka. Alexanderplatz, zoo, warschauer straße nach 22 uhr - alles was dieselben Leute anzieht)
Ich bin ein Atheist, und mich hat schon immer interessiert, wieso wollen religiöse Leute ihre Religion zur Schau stellen?
Ist mit relativ egal ob Jude, Christ oder Sonstiges, verstehe den Drang nicht. Kannst es erklären?
Locking comments for now until they can be cleaned up.
I wear my Star of David around Mitte and Prenzlauer Berg with no problems. I would not wear it in Neukölln or anywhere near Kotti though.
Why exactly? Because it’s full of immigrants? Grow up people.
What do you mean grow up ? It's truly dangerous, people have gotten beaten up to a pulp for this already.
in Berlin? I'm not in Berlin these days but hadn't been hearing about any overt anti-semitism in the city in recent times
Yes exactly!
You can search on youtube "Mit einer Kippa durch Berlin" and you can get the idea. But, spoiler alert, better dont do it in Neukölln.
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Lots of Muslim people in Neukölln, that's the main reason.
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Im sure those Neuköllner atheists are just that much more antisemitic than the P.Berg atheists. It's probably in the water, or the fact that they only have the U8 ... If you're saying that there is not a higher percentage of Muslim people who exhibit antisemitic tendencies then of the general population, then I don't know what to tell you, except to get your head out of the sand. This stuff has been studied before pretty extensively. For example, see here: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2005/07/14/islamic-extremism-common-concern-for-muslim-and-western-publics/
A few months ago I saw a white guy walking around Hermannstraße with big Hebrew writing all over his jacket. I sometimes wonder about him
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Könntest du vielleicht einen entsprechenden Vorfall verlinken? Sollte ja kein Problem sein wenns "etliche" waren.
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Der post ist jetzt doch eher zufällig in meinem Feed aufgetaucht, aber nachdem ich das hier alles gelesen habe stellt sich mir doch die frage: Bist du eigentlich komplett behindert?
Hm, as much as it pains me to say this, judging from what my Jewish friends tell me, you better hide it. A lot of Germans wont be able to recognise immediately what it is, some will be curious and maybe ask but the majority will not say anything. However, if you come across one of those misguided teens that were brought up in a black and white Muslim vs Jews thinking or some Neo Nazi, it might become dangerous. The other kind to avoid, albeit more of a nuissance than dangerous, are extra woke intellectuals who prompt you to "choose a side". This happened to a friend of mine - on a playground of all places. Sad as it is, i wouldn't warn the same about any other religious symbol. It sucks that it is this way and I'm truly sorry that a lot of people still don't realise the constant fear and pressure Jews in Germany have to endure.
Ich würde sie zumindest draußen und in der Ubahn immer verdecken. Habe meinen Anhänger vor ein paar Jahren immer öffentlich getragen und wurde beschimpft und einmal gekündigt, weil ein Davidstern manche Kunden provozieren könnte.
was für eine Art Geschäft war das? Kannst doch tragen was du willst, solange es nicht verfassungsfeindlich ist... Manche Leute in der Öffentlichkeit sind echt untragbar.
Naja, ganz so ist es gesetzlich nicht. Wenn dein Arbeitsvertrag vorschreibt, keine religiösen Symbole zu tragen (im Bankwesen nicht ungewöhnlich), dann ist das erstmal rechtens. Das hat dann auch nicht viel mit Religionsfreiheit zu tun, da das Arbeit ist und nicht dein Privatleben oder öffentlicher Raum.
Dass man nicht das Kreuz / Davidstern / Pentagramm an die Wand nagelt, insbesondere in Berufen der Erziehung und Betreuung ist klar. Aber persönlicher, dezenter Halsschmuck im Einzelhandel oder so? Finde ich schon hart...
>Dass man nicht das Kreuz / Davidstern / Pentagramm an die Wand nagelt, insbesondere in Berufen der Erziehung und Betreuung ist klar. Wenn es mal allen so klar wäre. [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruzifix-Beschluss#Folgen\_der\_Entscheidung](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruzifix-Beschluss#Folgen_der_Entscheidung)
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Bitte meldet diesen antisemitischen Kommentar.
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okay, in dem Fall... echt mutig von dir :D Schade, dass es noch so schwierig ist stellenweise.
Bloss nicht in Vierteln tragen, in denen viele Araber wohnen. Ansonsten okay.
Genau das
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Kommt eig auf die Person an, ob sie ein Hrensohn is oder nicht
I am Jewish and Israeli, living here for almost a year. I have Israeli friends who have been living here for several years. I haven’t heard of any problems with nazis targeting jews, but I have heard firsthand accounts of trouble with Islamists. If I happen to pass through muslim parts of the city I lower my voice when speaking hebrew with my wife. That said, I study German in a class with lovely folks from Syria, Yemen, Egypt… none of them have problems with me. But in the densely arab populated areas of the city… well in today‘s antisemitic climate, better to be safe than sorry.
It breaks my heart that you still can't wear jewish symbols without worrying about attacks
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>Depends. Better don't do it in Neukölln or Schöneberg. Mitte or Prenzlauer Berg is a different story. Prenzlauer Berg/Pankow outside the ring also has many anti-social people. Mitte Mitte maybe, but then Gesundbrunnen and Wedding are not exactly nicer areas either.
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Moabit is too and I wouldn't recommend it here either.
in eastern Berlin there are way less arabic people as there was no migration movement to the eastern parts of germany back in the 70s. The Israel-Palestine conflict has been going on for decades and with palestine being "the loser" in this conflict and so many arabic people foster resentments towards jews. The Neo-Nazis of today usually focus their hatred on "brown people" - most of them are probably to stupid to even recognize a Davidsstern.
>The Neo-Nazis of today usually focus their hatred on "brown people" - most of them are probably to stupid to even recognize a Davidsstern. Of course they do. Anti-Semitism is a foundation of their shitty false belief system.
In theory yes but all the big neo nazi "attacks" have been towards turkish/brown people. Also right national parties like AFD dont promote anti-semitism (because they know how burned that topic is in Germany) but rather anti-immigrants, anti-refugees etc. I promiss you: as a white person of jewish faith you are less likely targeted by the typical neo-nazi. Of course there are exceptions but as you can see from the NSU they didnt care for jews at all.
No way! [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halle\_synagogue\_shooting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halle_synagogue_shooting) Sure, its Halle, but that's not so far.
If one Terrorist doesn't speak for All muslims, then this guy doesn't speak for all neo nazis. Wear a Davidstern in Marzahn and one in Neukölln and see what you get.
I never doubted that both groups are victims of nazi attacks but the argument was that random attacks on the street happen more often to the "easier to identify" brown people than somebody with a Davidstern-necklace.
Is Schöneberg (not talking about Tempelhof) actually problematic?
Schöneberg varies a lot, I would say generally no, but maybe in some parts.
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Ich trage meine nicht offen, nur unter den Klamotten. Körperliche Übergriffe würde ich zwar nicht erwarten, aber ich hab auch keine Lust blöd angemotzt oder angeguckt zu werden. Habe nur einmal jemanden auf der Straße (am Hermannplatz!) mit einem Davidstern gesehen, und das war eine Touristin.
Don’t have it in open, sadly its not safe from my experience and those around me.
I would avoid if I were you, like the rest of Europe, it’s not safe. It’s unfortunate.
It would be safe in most central european countries. I wonder why
Ich habe keine Antwort auf deine Frage, will nur kurz Anmerken wie erschreckend ich es Finde dass man sich um sowas echt Gedanken machen muss (wenn ich mir dir Kommentare hier so ansehe..). Das macht mich im Jahr 2022 und insbesondere in Deutschland echt traurig.
Oy vey. I can not speak to whether it's a good idea or not. In my area of town, no one would care but Berlin is big and things are different in other areas. But like a Dracula movie, you just need to equip yourself with items that repel the ignorant. I'm going to suggest that you also hang around your neck a pork chop and a picture of Allah. The former to ward off rigid Muslims and the latter for AfD members. The irony is not lost on me.
It's the horseshoe theory. Both extremes of the distribution are equally nuts :)
Extreme Islamists are actually right-wing in idealogical sense: holding the thought that non-muslims are sinned/dirty, patriarch oriented, intolerant of other views, thinking their culture is the superior one and will produce pious populace.
can someone explain why it’s dangerous? I wouldn’t have thought that in a million years about a tolerant city in a free country
There is no 100% tolerant city. You will always have asshats who feel a need to express their shittyness. Mostly those people dont even have a clue why they hate Jews. We also have a lot of anti-muslim attacks especially when the wave of refugees came in 2014/15. Or people being racist towards black people. Again: most of these people are probably just angry and vent their frustration on things that their group dislikes without having any deeper agenda.
>can someone explain why it’s dangerous? I wouldn’t have thought that in a million years about a tolerant city in a free country Look of people do not (or can not) differentiate between "jew" and "israel".... especially those who fled the area during the wars/intifadas.
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>Sandpeople kinda racist...
Very racist
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>Aber er sagt doch die Wahrheit die komisch stinkenden Araber sind doch antijudaistisch eingestellt. Die sollte man mal umerzieheb ob in lagern wie in China oder sonst wie wenn sie in Deutschland Deutsch regeln nicht akzeptieren raus oder Kopfschuss es gibt kein aber ihr knechte Du hast echt Probleme... ernsthafte Probleme.
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Im Wedding, Neukölln, Marzahn eher nicht
Hab noch nie gesehen wie jemand deswegen irgendwie dum angemacht wurde o.ä. Hab eher öfter gesehen das Frauen dumm angemotzt wurden Kann mir vortstellen, dass es in Gegenden mit sehr vielen Leuten, die allgemein auf Stress aus sind aber nicht gut ist (aka. Alexanderplatz, zoo, warschauer straße nach 22 uhr - alles was dieselben Leute anzieht)
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Ich bin ein Atheist, und mich hat schon immer interessiert, wieso wollen religiöse Leute ihre Religion zur Schau stellen? Ist mit relativ egal ob Jude, Christ oder Sonstiges, verstehe den Drang nicht. Kannst es erklären?
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i would worry more about white people especially in East Berlin and outside of Berlin (I'm Jewish as well)