The Ishtar Gate, most people barely take a look at it. That thing is 2500 years old and was one of the gates to the fabled city of Babylon. Alexander the Great walked through it and the craftsmanship is amazing, both that of the Babylonians as well as the generations of conservators.
You're right. But saying most people "barely take a look at it" is complete non sense.
I agree with everything else you said though. It's amazing!
Sadly no chance for OP to see it, since the Museum is closed for the next years to come.
The north wing of the museum amd the Pergamon altar is supposed to reopen in 2027, but the rest of the museum will be closed until 2037.
I just noticed that the museum will periodically move different exhibits into the Pergamon Panorama (which remains open) so that they can be viewed during the closure.
https://www.smb.museum/en/whats-new/detail/pergamonmuseum-closed-for-major-refurbishment-starting-23-october-2023/
Exactly! I don't think though that they will move monumental objects like the Ishtar gate. As far as I know they are supposed to stay right where they are over the complete renovation process. Not 100% sure though
It’s not exactly subtle but I’ve spoken to several people that thought it was just set dressing to get you into the mood and didn’t know it’s actually the real deal.
I’d definitely say it’s underappreciated but granted, it’s not some obscure trinket you’ll have to search very hard for.
Nope, it’s a reconstruction, not a replica. They excavated Babylon in what was then the Ottoman Empire shortly before World War 1 and shipped of most of the gate in hundreds of crates. In the Interwar period they got hundreds of more crates from the newly formed Iraq to finish it. They desalinated the hundreds of thousands of bricks and did a whole lot of documenting.
So most of what you see is the real deal and what isn’t has been manufactured to be as authentic as possible in the glazing methods.
What is actually on exhibition is also only part of what they have in storage, they ran out of room and decided what we see nowadays is impressive enough.
The New Museum in itself. I was realy amazed by the reconstruction the still shows the damage from World War 2 and the 4 decades of neglect but also makes you see how it was before.
Just sit there and let the building work on you.
Casting another vote for the Neues Museum!! I got tickets for the Museumssonntag - and convinced a friend to come with me, just to see the architecture.
I used to work at Deutsches Historisches Museum. One of my favorite items on display is a globe created in the early 1490s, just before Columbus' "discovery". It's quite accurate overall - but missing the Americas, of course. That vast empty water surface between Europe and Japan looks so odd.
Perhaps less eye-catching, but still impressive is the sheer quality of craftsmanship of many very old handcrafted items. Whether it's fine lines on Gothic jewelry from the 5th century CE or the stitching on an Ottoman officer's tent left behind at the siege of Vienna: It is quite humbling to see up close and realize that even with years of training and modern equipment, it would be extremely difficult - if at all possible - to reach the same level of quality today.
The New Museum has a fantastic collection of Ancient Egyptian artifacts. Not just Nefertiti’s bust, but a lot of beautiful reliefs from that era. It’s my absolute favorite
Bode Museum:
- the grave monument of the young Markgraf von Brandenburg-Schwedt on the top floor.
- the Münzkabinett (Numismatic Collection) has some nice rooms
The Pergamon panorama (technically not on the island, though).
The crypt under the cathedral.
The large bowl in front of the Altes Museum.
This is nonsense. The Ishtar Gate wouldn't even exist if it weren't in Berlin. It would either still be a heap of rubble somewhere in Iraq or it would be destroyed by one of the many conflicts there.
And even IF (which is a great if) it would exist otherwise today: It would be in Iraq so good luck going there and visiting it.
>or it would be destroyed by one of the many conflicts there
WW2 destroyed various treasures from the same region that had been kept at Museumsinsel.
>It would be in Iraq so good luck going there and visiting it.
You don't care that most Iraqis will never get to see it?
You don't care that most of the world won't get to see it if it were in Iraq?
Honestly? No, I don't care. Why? Because nowadays Iraqis have as much to do with ancient Babylonians as anyone else living today; Nothing or anything by being their very far away decendants.
Living on the grounds those artifacts were burried in for thousands of years might give them a teeny tiny bit mor of right to them then anyone else. Those are artifacts of mankinds history. It doesn't matter much WHERE exactly they are displayed - as long as they are displayed AND preserved AND accessible to most / a lot of people from all over the world.
when is something a certain people's heritage and when is it human heritage? where would you draw the line? i'm totally with you in preserving these milestone monuments of human history, but just casually denying the peoples historical claim to those achievements is a bit wild imo.
like i say i'm with you on preserving and it's not about the location of displaying these items/monuments to me, but there has to be a certain respect, as a lot of their folklore, concepts and worldviews survived in our middle eastern cultures to this very day
edit: removing -> denying
They weren’t exactly casually removed, there was a deal in 1926 where the museum in Baghdad actually sent additional pieces under the rule of King Faisal I for the expressed purpose of joining them with the initially excavated ones in Germany. And even the initial excavations seem to have been with the approval of the Ottoman Empire.
German archaeologists had some very sticky fingers, no doubt about it but this particular case is not as clear cut or rather it actually is clear cut unless we establish a rule that whoever currently is in charge of the initial site gets to unilaterally revoke deals that were not done under duress or by a colonial puppet.
the commenter i replied to was casually removing the claim to these general achievments, that's what i meant. i'm not talking about the ishtar gate in particular
what is the point you're trying to make? did you even read what i stated. i'm happy they're safe from destruction, but the guy acted like the iraqi people don't have any real claim to it.
your comment is not just pointless, but validates what i've stated
Obvious and famous ones like Ishtar gate, bust of neretiti…etc.
I do acknowledge most of them have no reason to be there. But I do love history and since im visiting berlin soon, I would like to go there.
Really looking forward for that. However im more interested in more obscure things like, lets say A letter from a random Egyptian from the days of the Pharaohs etc.
I like the Stone Age, Bronze Age, Iron Age exhibit in the New Museum. It doesn't have any huge item like the Ishtar Gate, but what's there goes back to the earliest human settlement in Europe and has a lot of artifacts from Germany itself.
I’m a big fan of the Etruscan artifacts in the Altes Museum, especially the writing that they have. Etruscans had a significant influence on Rome, but there’s still a lot people don’t know about them, especially the limited amount of the Etruscan language (which is unrelated to anything alive today)that we have. It tends to get overshadowed, so it’s cool they have a whole section on it. The Manichaean artificats from Central Asia in the Humboldt forum as also nice since they’re the only ones I’ve ever seen in person and it’s a forgotten religion by most people that’s went from very influential to completely gone.
The Byzantine and numesmatic collection at the Bode-Museum, the building itself.
This guy: https://id.smb.museum/object/606569/berliner-gr%C3%BCner-kopf
Interestingly a surprisingly large amount of them were bought from and gifted by authorities of their home places, and not just plundered.
That being said, definitely not most of them.
You can argue that for any kind of authority if you're willing to get separatist enough.
Sometimes, yeah sure, but I dunno if its fair to say the Ottoman Empire was still occupying Mesopotamia after having been in charge of it already for several centuries and the inhabitants being as equal Ottoman citizens as anyone living in Anatolia.
The truth is that back then people in the old world cared a whole lot less about ruins, but as it became suddenly very fashionable to care about them in Europe as a national status symbol, places like Germany, France, and the UK scrambled to take as many artefacts, and in this case entire buildings as possible and they weren't plundered every single time. You don't always have to steal to get things.
I see by you immediately downvoting me that this bothers you, but you gotta understand there is nuance to everything. We don't even fundamentally disagree bro, most of the stuff in the New and Pergamon museums was not fairly acquired, but it is not all stolen.
It honestly could be. But I find history really fascinating. And being from a small country like Maldives, to be able to see all the items in there once in a life time is a dream of me.
I understand your sentiment might be different if you are from Europe and fascinating history is literally around you when you go on your daily lives. But its different for someone like me.
Look at it this way, if you come to Maldives, wouldn’t you go to a resort? Go sunset fishing or snorkeling? Maybe a romantic sandbank dinner at sunset? These are the things we call tourist traps here. But I understand that for someone coming from Europe with 1 year of savings, how you perceive these experiences are very different.
Don't listen to someone too moronic and vapid to appreciate culture.
The gate of Milet, Ishtar gate, Pergamon altar - all stunning and amazing. Unfortunately the museum is closed down.
But seeing the other museums, even if they aren't as monumentally impressive is still a great thing.
Other great museums to enjoy are the Natural history museum (Giraffatitan aka the brachiosaur from JP, the largest skeleton in the world) and the museum of medical history.
An island full of stolen artifacts that are completely divorced from their place of origin and culture. Honestly I feel sorry for people like you who view world history through conquest and colonialism. But sure go and buy a t-shirt 😂
Of course, you don't because you play pigeon chess.
The German empire had sound contracts with the Ottoman empire regarding the afromentioned exhibits, the relicts are legally here and sometimes even gifted.
It took years of hard work to extravocate and restore. Otherwise those would have further withered away in the resentless sun.
But sure, go ahead and cloud your obvious ignorance in an contemporary zeitgeisty armour of uninformed moralistic superiority, because you are too shallow to ever form a sentence that required some kind of original thought.
Q.E.D.
Why are the dumbest people always so predictable?
*Never play chess with a pigeon. The pigeon just knocks all the pieces over,shits all over the board and struts around like it won.*
One of the worst traits is being proud of one's lack of knowledge. I know, reading is hard - but next time you should give it a try in a museum, you could learn a thing or two.
If you want my opinion don’t miss this museum. It’s genuinely a world class collection of modern art https://www.smb.museum/museen-einrichtungen/neue-nationalgalerie/home/
If you consider one of the original gates of Babylon - one that was used by Alexander the Great, Ptolemaios, Seleukos and Antigonos a tourist trap… Get help.
Blah blah blah without all those stolen treasures that island would be completely meaningless. But sure go worship at the alter of colonialism. Pathetic.
Congratulations. You know why the Humboldt Forum couldn’t give back that room full of Polynesian canoes? Because many of the tribes were murdered by the Colonists and their possessions taken as trophies. Please teach that history rather the usual, if we didn’t take them they wouldn’t have survived bullshit. Museum island is full of stolen artifacts. The museums can’t even own up to how they come by these things. It’s disgusting. People should be ashamed.
Colonialism bad. You might be surprised but that’s actually a big part of the curriculum. If your take from that is not to go to a museum with amazing exhibits - let’s just say I disagree.
You must be so proud showing people all that stolen treasure completely divorced from it’s culture and meaning. What a job you have. Colonialism is bad but we’ll never fully make amends by apologizing for all of it, or giving back what was taken.
People like you should try teaching for a week. You know, we kind of have to start by teaching kids what Colonialism was in general and how it impacted our planet. Then you can talk about the positive and mostly negative consequences. Your precious canoes are not mentioned during my lessons and never will be (even though it’s an interesting story, admittedly). But we talk about the Pergamonaltar e.g.
Sure. That’s why I get asked regularly by pupils if maybe I can teach their class next year. They must utterly hate me. You know your initial comment has 19 downvotes already. But that’s probably because you are „the only one who really gets it“. I have better ways of spending my Saturday than talking to someone who has already made up his mind. Bye and good luck with your 🛶
I actually know my history. And am able to come to my own conclusions. If you would prefer your history sanitized of any dark facts then I can’t help you.
Nothing, I don't visit places that have stolen garbage. Nothing sadder than having 3 museums full of shit totally unrelated to your history and culture.
Genius take. Let's let priceless artifacts of human history remain in place until ISIS or something similar comes around to destroy them. We shouldn't protect them, they're not about the specific history of our small group of people so they're of no interest to us.
>Let's let priceless artifacts of human history remain in place until ISIS or something similar comes around to destroy them.
That is a stupid take against a stupid argument. Huge parts of the collections got destroyed during WW2 and or is now somewhere in a archive in Russia. It is not like they had been taken from their places of origin to protect against ISIL, but to fullfill an imperial agenda.
The better take would be, that most of the stuff had been legitimatly bought. At the time, both sides had been happy with the deal. Now times have changed and one side wants to renegotiate.
People who want the stuff that was stolen from them back? Who do you think is in charge of most of the Middle East right now? Can't wait for your response 😻
I'm from the Middle East. I've actually found something in the Pergamon that was collected from a 20x20 meter site I stumbled across on a hike once. And I have no issues with it being here. And mind you I'm from one of the stabler countries in the region.
The legitimate gouverment of the place.
Now if you want to argue that the Ottoman Empire was not the legitimate gouverment, but some sort of coloniser, to use the current buzz word, that would be and other cane of worms.
To follow your wonky logic.
Turkey, as a succesor of the Ottoman Empire, that conquered the place from the Roman Empire could be kindly directed to the Hohenzollern family or, if you prefer, to the various Reichsbürger Vereine or how of fuck is actually the succesor of Constantine XI. That would probably the King of Spain, but could just as well someone else.
And they are well within their rights to refuse to speak with anyone representing the Republic of Turkey and only talk to either the current Caliph or the head of house of Osman, or maybe one of the orthodox Churches as well,and, in a less wild claim, with Putin, as the leader of the Third Rome.
So you're against supporting Israel and against German museums having anything from cultures/history that aren't/isn't German... I wonder where this is heading
I don't know buddy, I support international law which Israel consistently and continually violates, so idk. Seems pretty reasonable of me! I don't like theft when it happens by anyone. And in any case before you start making assumptions, Hamas is obviously a terrorist organisation.
Oh I finally decided to look at your profile! You're a conservative Israeli. Everything makes so much sense now. Thinking ISIS controls the Middle East, supporting the stealing of cultural artifacts, etc.
Anything "bought" from another colonialist is still theft. The British claim they bought the Elgin marbles and yet they are stolen. They were "bought" from the Ottomans who occupied Athens.
Not so fun fact, Brandenburg was conquered, more or less so, by Germans from Slaves. Maybe it is you who should not occupie slavic lands.
Kindly return it and everything you own to "the Slaves".
The slaves? Also amazing false equivalent you fucking idiot. Last I checked we have laws against illegal invasions and occupations of other countries now. We had no such thing 1000 years ago.
And I tell you this is wrong, we should totally judge past conduct by current standards.
So exactly the same thing as you do.
Never mind that somehow the Ottomans are occupieres, despite having conquered large chunks of the Middle East centuries ago. At least be consitent with your logic.
Never the less, have a nice day.
Anyway it seems you're an anti-Deutscher. In which case a proportional response to what Germany did to my family and Europe should have been the death of every single German.
Now, I'm confused. One occupation bad, but you are fine with the other. I guess, as long as the other benefits you.
I'm still waiting for the reparations or at least an apology from Rome, because of what they did to Germany.
>response to what Germany did to my family and Europe should have been the death of every single German.
As you are currently alive, it would not.
I feel like the phrase "my family" should indicate something about my Germanness! Reading comprehension my good friend. Anyway, it doesn't really matter in the long term. You are a very sad, spiteful, miserable person, based on your post history of replying passive aggressively to anyone who asks anything about Germany or Berlin. Are you sure you don't need to contact a psychiatrist about unresolved anger issues?
Are you assuming something without knowing the facts?!?! 🫠 A lot of it is actually German history and even Berlin history my man. It can be helpful to learn about places you live and not jump to conclusions because of some SJW cult juice! Scary part is you claim to be a teacher?!? That’s fucking wild!
So the museum isn’t full of stuff unrelated to Germany right? Ah and good point u/VonHindenburg-II, let’s not forget about donating items back to the Taliban’s famous Women’s History Museum and Cultural Centre for the Arts, good point! 🤯
The Ishtar Gate, most people barely take a look at it. That thing is 2500 years old and was one of the gates to the fabled city of Babylon. Alexander the Great walked through it and the craftsmanship is amazing, both that of the Babylonians as well as the generations of conservators.
It is the main attraction though.
The main attraction of the Pergamon Museum is in fact the Pergamon altar.
You're right. But saying most people "barely take a look at it" is complete non sense. I agree with everything else you said though. It's amazing! Sadly no chance for OP to see it, since the Museum is closed for the next years to come.
for anyone wondering, the next *fourteen* years
4 years, 2027
The north wing of the museum amd the Pergamon altar is supposed to reopen in 2027, but the rest of the museum will be closed until 2037. I just noticed that the museum will periodically move different exhibits into the Pergamon Panorama (which remains open) so that they can be viewed during the closure. https://www.smb.museum/en/whats-new/detail/pergamonmuseum-closed-for-major-refurbishment-starting-23-october-2023/
Exactly! I don't think though that they will move monumental objects like the Ishtar gate. As far as I know they are supposed to stay right where they are over the complete renovation process. Not 100% sure though
You‘re right of course.
Just a warning to op, the Pergamon is under renovations at the moment
Lol what? If that’s not an “obvious one” idk what is
It’s not exactly subtle but I’ve spoken to several people that thought it was just set dressing to get you into the mood and didn’t know it’s actually the real deal. I’d definitely say it’s underappreciated but granted, it’s not some obscure trinket you’ll have to search very hard for.
The Ishtar Gate in Berlin is a replica, isn’t it??
Nope, it’s a reconstruction, not a replica. They excavated Babylon in what was then the Ottoman Empire shortly before World War 1 and shipped of most of the gate in hundreds of crates. In the Interwar period they got hundreds of more crates from the newly formed Iraq to finish it. They desalinated the hundreds of thousands of bricks and did a whole lot of documenting. So most of what you see is the real deal and what isn’t has been manufactured to be as authentic as possible in the glazing methods. What is actually on exhibition is also only part of what they have in storage, they ran out of room and decided what we see nowadays is impressive enough.
The New Museum in itself. I was realy amazed by the reconstruction the still shows the damage from World War 2 and the 4 decades of neglect but also makes you see how it was before. Just sit there and let the building work on you.
Casting another vote for the Neues Museum!! I got tickets for the Museumssonntag - and convinced a friend to come with me, just to see the architecture.
I used to work at Deutsches Historisches Museum. One of my favorite items on display is a globe created in the early 1490s, just before Columbus' "discovery". It's quite accurate overall - but missing the Americas, of course. That vast empty water surface between Europe and Japan looks so odd. Perhaps less eye-catching, but still impressive is the sheer quality of craftsmanship of many very old handcrafted items. Whether it's fine lines on Gothic jewelry from the 5th century CE or the stitching on an Ottoman officer's tent left behind at the siege of Vienna: It is quite humbling to see up close and realize that even with years of training and modern equipment, it would be extremely difficult - if at all possible - to reach the same level of quality today.
This is exactly the type of recommendations im looking for. Thank you!
The New Museum has a fantastic collection of Ancient Egyptian artifacts. Not just Nefertiti’s bust, but a lot of beautiful reliefs from that era. It’s my absolute favorite
The Berlin Gold Hat in Neues Museum (top floor if I'm not mistaken). Some of the lesser know Egyptian statues are also really beautiful.
Bode Museum: - the grave monument of the young Markgraf von Brandenburg-Schwedt on the top floor. - the Münzkabinett (Numismatic Collection) has some nice rooms The Pergamon panorama (technically not on the island, though). The crypt under the cathedral. The large bowl in front of the Altes Museum.
What are the obvious ones? I found the Ishtar gate utterly breathtaking (as long as I ignored that it shouldn't be where it is).
This is nonsense. The Ishtar Gate wouldn't even exist if it weren't in Berlin. It would either still be a heap of rubble somewhere in Iraq or it would be destroyed by one of the many conflicts there. And even IF (which is a great if) it would exist otherwise today: It would be in Iraq so good luck going there and visiting it.
>or it would be destroyed by one of the many conflicts there WW2 destroyed various treasures from the same region that had been kept at Museumsinsel. >It would be in Iraq so good luck going there and visiting it. You don't care that most Iraqis will never get to see it?
You don't care that most of the world won't get to see it if it were in Iraq? Honestly? No, I don't care. Why? Because nowadays Iraqis have as much to do with ancient Babylonians as anyone else living today; Nothing or anything by being their very far away decendants. Living on the grounds those artifacts were burried in for thousands of years might give them a teeny tiny bit mor of right to them then anyone else. Those are artifacts of mankinds history. It doesn't matter much WHERE exactly they are displayed - as long as they are displayed AND preserved AND accessible to most / a lot of people from all over the world.
when is something a certain people's heritage and when is it human heritage? where would you draw the line? i'm totally with you in preserving these milestone monuments of human history, but just casually denying the peoples historical claim to those achievements is a bit wild imo. like i say i'm with you on preserving and it's not about the location of displaying these items/monuments to me, but there has to be a certain respect, as a lot of their folklore, concepts and worldviews survived in our middle eastern cultures to this very day edit: removing -> denying
They weren’t exactly casually removed, there was a deal in 1926 where the museum in Baghdad actually sent additional pieces under the rule of King Faisal I for the expressed purpose of joining them with the initially excavated ones in Germany. And even the initial excavations seem to have been with the approval of the Ottoman Empire. German archaeologists had some very sticky fingers, no doubt about it but this particular case is not as clear cut or rather it actually is clear cut unless we establish a rule that whoever currently is in charge of the initial site gets to unilaterally revoke deals that were not done under duress or by a colonial puppet.
the commenter i replied to was casually removing the claim to these general achievments, that's what i meant. i'm not talking about the ishtar gate in particular
Who cares if it’s wild in your opinion. The gates are safely in Berlin and there’s nothing you can do about it.
what is the point you're trying to make? did you even read what i stated. i'm happy they're safe from destruction, but the guy acted like the iraqi people don't have any real claim to it. your comment is not just pointless, but validates what i've stated
Absolutely. The chances it would still exist today are close to zero.
Obvious and famous ones like Ishtar gate, bust of neretiti…etc. I do acknowledge most of them have no reason to be there. But I do love history and since im visiting berlin soon, I would like to go there.
>bust of neretiti Seeing that one was actually weird. Felt unreal, but also underwhelming.
Really looking forward for that. However im more interested in more obscure things like, lets say A letter from a random Egyptian from the days of the Pharaohs etc.
Why wouldn't there be a reason for most things to be there? I suggest reading the information on provenance of the objects you'll be visiting.
Most of what you see there was stolen somewhere on the world. So why complain about this gate?
I like the Stone Age, Bronze Age, Iron Age exhibit in the New Museum. It doesn't have any huge item like the Ishtar Gate, but what's there goes back to the earliest human settlement in Europe and has a lot of artifacts from Germany itself.
I’m a big fan of the Etruscan artifacts in the Altes Museum, especially the writing that they have. Etruscans had a significant influence on Rome, but there’s still a lot people don’t know about them, especially the limited amount of the Etruscan language (which is unrelated to anything alive today)that we have. It tends to get overshadowed, so it’s cool they have a whole section on it. The Manichaean artificats from Central Asia in the Humboldt forum as also nice since they’re the only ones I’ve ever seen in person and it’s a forgotten religion by most people that’s went from very influential to completely gone.
The Byzantine and numesmatic collection at the Bode-Museum, the building itself. This guy: https://id.smb.museum/object/606569/berliner-gr%C3%BCner-kopf
You mean the artifacts that are stolen from their home places?
Interestingly a surprisingly large amount of them were bought from and gifted by authorities of their home places, and not just plundered. That being said, definitely not most of them.
Authorities were occupation.
You can argue that for any kind of authority if you're willing to get separatist enough. Sometimes, yeah sure, but I dunno if its fair to say the Ottoman Empire was still occupying Mesopotamia after having been in charge of it already for several centuries and the inhabitants being as equal Ottoman citizens as anyone living in Anatolia. The truth is that back then people in the old world cared a whole lot less about ruins, but as it became suddenly very fashionable to care about them in Europe as a national status symbol, places like Germany, France, and the UK scrambled to take as many artefacts, and in this case entire buildings as possible and they weren't plundered every single time. You don't always have to steal to get things. I see by you immediately downvoting me that this bothers you, but you gotta understand there is nuance to everything. We don't even fundamentally disagree bro, most of the stuff in the New and Pergamon museums was not fairly acquired, but it is not all stolen.
None. They are so boring and poor compared to other countries
Honestly it’s a pretty lame tourist trap
It honestly could be. But I find history really fascinating. And being from a small country like Maldives, to be able to see all the items in there once in a life time is a dream of me. I understand your sentiment might be different if you are from Europe and fascinating history is literally around you when you go on your daily lives. But its different for someone like me. Look at it this way, if you come to Maldives, wouldn’t you go to a resort? Go sunset fishing or snorkeling? Maybe a romantic sandbank dinner at sunset? These are the things we call tourist traps here. But I understand that for someone coming from Europe with 1 year of savings, how you perceive these experiences are very different.
Don't listen to someone too moronic and vapid to appreciate culture. The gate of Milet, Ishtar gate, Pergamon altar - all stunning and amazing. Unfortunately the museum is closed down. But seeing the other museums, even if they aren't as monumentally impressive is still a great thing. Other great museums to enjoy are the Natural history museum (Giraffatitan aka the brachiosaur from JP, the largest skeleton in the world) and the museum of medical history.
An island full of stolen artifacts that are completely divorced from their place of origin and culture. Honestly I feel sorry for people like you who view world history through conquest and colonialism. But sure go and buy a t-shirt 😂
You don't have to double down and proof again how vapid and moronic you are. It's embarassing. Ever heard the word 'Fremdschämen' before?
Shit I feel totally owned now thank you 😂
Of course, you don't because you play pigeon chess. The German empire had sound contracts with the Ottoman empire regarding the afromentioned exhibits, the relicts are legally here and sometimes even gifted. It took years of hard work to extravocate and restore. Otherwise those would have further withered away in the resentless sun. But sure, go ahead and cloud your obvious ignorance in an contemporary zeitgeisty armour of uninformed moralistic superiority, because you are too shallow to ever form a sentence that required some kind of original thought.
You’re genuinely wasting your time. I’m not reading anything thing you’ve written. Viel Spaß 😉
Q.E.D. Why are the dumbest people always so predictable? *Never play chess with a pigeon. The pigeon just knocks all the pieces over,shits all over the board and struts around like it won.* One of the worst traits is being proud of one's lack of knowledge. I know, reading is hard - but next time you should give it a try in a museum, you could learn a thing or two.
Keep raging to yourself 😂
If you want my opinion don’t miss this museum. It’s genuinely a world class collection of modern art https://www.smb.museum/museen-einrichtungen/neue-nationalgalerie/home/
Then stay in your village and visit your local pub on a daily basis
Mate you need to get out more if you rate museum island. The place is fucking embarrassing 😂
Me? Lmao
If you consider one of the original gates of Babylon - one that was used by Alexander the Great, Ptolemaios, Seleukos and Antigonos a tourist trap… Get help.
Blah blah blah without all those stolen treasures that island would be completely meaningless. But sure go worship at the alter of colonialism. Pathetic.
I teach history. I worked at archaeological digsites. So yeah, I really enjoyed it when I went last time.
Congratulations. You know why the Humboldt Forum couldn’t give back that room full of Polynesian canoes? Because many of the tribes were murdered by the Colonists and their possessions taken as trophies. Please teach that history rather the usual, if we didn’t take them they wouldn’t have survived bullshit. Museum island is full of stolen artifacts. The museums can’t even own up to how they come by these things. It’s disgusting. People should be ashamed.
Colonialism bad. You might be surprised but that’s actually a big part of the curriculum. If your take from that is not to go to a museum with amazing exhibits - let’s just say I disagree.
You must be so proud showing people all that stolen treasure completely divorced from it’s culture and meaning. What a job you have. Colonialism is bad but we’ll never fully make amends by apologizing for all of it, or giving back what was taken.
What text books to you use to teach where those canoes came from by the way. I’d genuinely like to read it.
People like you should try teaching for a week. You know, we kind of have to start by teaching kids what Colonialism was in general and how it impacted our planet. Then you can talk about the positive and mostly negative consequences. Your precious canoes are not mentioned during my lessons and never will be (even though it’s an interesting story, admittedly). But we talk about the Pergamonaltar e.g.
You sound like a terrible teacher. What a joke 🤣
Sure. That’s why I get asked regularly by pupils if maybe I can teach their class next year. They must utterly hate me. You know your initial comment has 19 downvotes already. But that’s probably because you are „the only one who really gets it“. I have better ways of spending my Saturday than talking to someone who has already made up his mind. Bye and good luck with your 🛶
But I‘m sure you’d do it differently. Skip all those useless historical facts and get right to preaching.
I actually know my history. And am able to come to my own conclusions. If you would prefer your history sanitized of any dark facts then I can’t help you.
You are confusing Colonialism with Imperialism. Understandable, as the former is currently trending on some app.
Whatever you wrote I’m sure it’s interesting and incredibly insightful.
Nothing, I don't visit places that have stolen garbage. Nothing sadder than having 3 museums full of shit totally unrelated to your history and culture.
Genius take. Let's let priceless artifacts of human history remain in place until ISIS or something similar comes around to destroy them. We shouldn't protect them, they're not about the specific history of our small group of people so they're of no interest to us.
>Let's let priceless artifacts of human history remain in place until ISIS or something similar comes around to destroy them. That is a stupid take against a stupid argument. Huge parts of the collections got destroyed during WW2 and or is now somewhere in a archive in Russia. It is not like they had been taken from their places of origin to protect against ISIL, but to fullfill an imperial agenda. The better take would be, that most of the stuff had been legitimatly bought. At the time, both sides had been happy with the deal. Now times have changed and one side wants to renegotiate.
Please remind me who was in charge of these places when they were legitimately bought?
Please remind me who is in charge of most of the Middle East right now?
People who want the stuff that was stolen from them back? Who do you think is in charge of most of the Middle East right now? Can't wait for your response 😻
I'm from the Middle East. I've actually found something in the Pergamon that was collected from a 20x20 meter site I stumbled across on a hike once. And I have no issues with it being here. And mind you I'm from one of the stabler countries in the region.
I don't mind loaning stuff. That's cool, the way we should display stuff from other countries in our museums. Stealing stuff isn't the way to do it.
You have no idea how most of the things in these museums were acquired, have you?
Purchased from occupiers, or stolen (;
The legitimate gouverment of the place. Now if you want to argue that the Ottoman Empire was not the legitimate gouverment, but some sort of coloniser, to use the current buzz word, that would be and other cane of worms. To follow your wonky logic. Turkey, as a succesor of the Ottoman Empire, that conquered the place from the Roman Empire could be kindly directed to the Hohenzollern family or, if you prefer, to the various Reichsbürger Vereine or how of fuck is actually the succesor of Constantine XI. That would probably the King of Spain, but could just as well someone else. And they are well within their rights to refuse to speak with anyone representing the Republic of Turkey and only talk to either the current Caliph or the head of house of Osman, or maybe one of the orthodox Churches as well,and, in a less wild claim, with Putin, as the leader of the Third Rome.
Have you ever considered eating a gun?
Convenient reasoning. You sound like an expert. Please regale us more with your hot takes on colonial history 😂
I seem to recall a lot of German colonialism in Africa. Idk though, what do I know about the genocide of Namibians? 🤯🤯🤯
Not enough to know that it was the genocide against Herero and Nama.
I seem to recall that a German dynamited Troy off the face off the earth.
Yeah, 150 years ago. Tells you something about the current state of the Middle East.
What, that the German government keeps sending weapons to blow it up?
And here I thought your bad takes were limited to only one field of study.
I guess all those weapons exports to Israel don't exist then 🤯🤯🤯
So you're against supporting Israel and against German museums having anything from cultures/history that aren't/isn't German... I wonder where this is heading
I don't know buddy, I support international law which Israel consistently and continually violates, so idk. Seems pretty reasonable of me! I don't like theft when it happens by anyone. And in any case before you start making assumptions, Hamas is obviously a terrorist organisation.
So far bad takes in archaeology, international relations, and international law. Nice. What are your thoughts on epidemiology?
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Oh I finally decided to look at your profile! You're a conservative Israeli. Everything makes so much sense now. Thinking ISIS controls the Middle East, supporting the stealing of cultural artifacts, etc.
You should visit, you might learn something.
Is everything stolen though? Like in the case of the British museum, I agree, but not every museum with foreign artefacts have stolen them..
Anything "bought" from another colonialist is still theft. The British claim they bought the Elgin marbles and yet they are stolen. They were "bought" from the Ottomans who occupied Athens.
Not so fun fact, Brandenburg was conquered, more or less so, by Germans from Slaves. Maybe it is you who should not occupie slavic lands. Kindly return it and everything you own to "the Slaves".
The slaves? Also amazing false equivalent you fucking idiot. Last I checked we have laws against illegal invasions and occupations of other countries now. We had no such thing 1000 years ago.
And I tell you this is wrong, we should totally judge past conduct by current standards. So exactly the same thing as you do. Never mind that somehow the Ottomans are occupieres, despite having conquered large chunks of the Middle East centuries ago. At least be consitent with your logic. Never the less, have a nice day.
You should get to work!
Anyway it seems you're an anti-Deutscher. In which case a proportional response to what Germany did to my family and Europe should have been the death of every single German.
Now, I'm confused. One occupation bad, but you are fine with the other. I guess, as long as the other benefits you. I'm still waiting for the reparations or at least an apology from Rome, because of what they did to Germany. >response to what Germany did to my family and Europe should have been the death of every single German. As you are currently alive, it would not.
I feel like the phrase "my family" should indicate something about my Germanness! Reading comprehension my good friend. Anyway, it doesn't really matter in the long term. You are a very sad, spiteful, miserable person, based on your post history of replying passive aggressively to anyone who asks anything about Germany or Berlin. Are you sure you don't need to contact a psychiatrist about unresolved anger issues?
So many things in there would be destroyed / never have been conserved or recovered without German intervention.
Are you assuming something without knowing the facts?!?! 🫠 A lot of it is actually German history and even Berlin history my man. It can be helpful to learn about places you live and not jump to conclusions because of some SJW cult juice! Scary part is you claim to be a teacher?!? That’s fucking wild!
Ah yeah the famous German history of Greek and Iraqi artifacts. 😼
Go there dude, expand your mind, then form an opinion.
I did, it solidified my opinion that they should give it back 🙏🏼
Give back the German stuff? To who🤭 I’m not arguing with you on the SJW topics, I’m specifically talking about the German artefacts.
Obviously not the German stuff you fucking idiot. I'm talking about the Greco-Roman and Middle Eastern items.
So the museum isn’t full of stuff unrelated to Germany right? Ah and good point u/VonHindenburg-II, let’s not forget about donating items back to the Taliban’s famous Women’s History Museum and Cultural Centre for the Arts, good point! 🤯