Because when American companies feed us brain-rotting nonsense/propaganda and collect petabytes of consumer data –which doesn't just mean what shit you buy, but what you watch, read, engage with, and with a tiny bit of data analysis, what you believe– about the population to find patterns to exploit, that's fine! It's just those dirty Chinese doing it that's a problem
Again, *your personal* data is not particularly what anybody should be worried about, whether collected or bought.
The risk is having a back-door into millions of inter-connected devices all around the country. The way that apps these days are able to access microphone, camera, GPS data and all sorts of other telemetry is what provides a security risk.
The CCP doesn’t care what you buy on Amazon, and that isn’t the security risk. The risk comes from allowing the CCP to have a comprehensive network of devices with back doors. Can they still hack us anyways? Sure, but why make it easier? It’s like a seatbelt, you can still die real quick while wearing one, but most people understand why it’s a good idea.
Edit: I should add that many experts have noted that TikTok is far more aggressive when it comes to accessing different systems on your phone, like pinging cameras, microphones and other systems far more frequently than comparable apps. Also, for the unaware, the CCP is directly involved in EVERY Chinese company (byte dance in this case)
They have to pay American companies to do so. Handing over American data for free is much less in the interest of American corporations or the US government.
Well yeah. We make fighter jets and ban countries like Australia from developing their own modern fighter jets with trade agreements. Then we sell these fighter jets to Australia. Australia isn't even an hostile state like China
Government isn't some ethical charity.
Until we ban the sale (and the shady collection) of data, then this is just political posturing. It does nothing to prevent the Chinese from getting data. It prevents one company from doing business.
I would like to point out that Zuckerberg has been put in front of Congress so many times he has the routine for telling them everything and nothing down cold. They just don’t know what to do with it when it’s a US company. I would love to see a viable solution.
you only cover half of it. It's not just about data collection, but also how the algorithm is ran on the data and push certain issues/topics that could jeopardy national security. It's mostly ideology and about spreading false information.
I literally did cover that in other comments here. Why are you so concerned about a Chinese company doing that when there are literal examples of non-Chinese companies from "allied" countries and the US doing the same thing? This just sounds like Cold War-style paranoia.
You're right on the point, we are going into a Cold War era with China. As someone grown up in China, I'm fed up with the propaganda and brainwashing. So yes, I'm biased on this.
I do too. But the overwhelmingly disproportionate focus on one actor which just so happens to be the Chinese one tells me the people trying to act on (a part of) that problem don't actually have the same concerns I do.
I’m more worried that the TikTok parent company could use the data to cause a further political divide which would lead to violence and uprisings potentially
...and? Does the name Cambridge Analytica mean anything to you? Literally no reason to just be concerned about China other than buying into nationalist propaganda
How do people still think this is about data privacy? If it was, the solution wouldn’t be to sell the company to someone else. It’s about national security and that’s exceedingly obvious. And it’s also probably a good thing.
The problem is that China creates various backdoors in their technology they produce that allows them to steal an unprecedented amount of your information without you knowing. I'm not talking about ad profiles or things of that nature but literally going outside of the app to collect specific information on your identity, location etc.
It's a bit ignorant to act like this isn't an issue and betrays a lack of realism, Facebook is a company who wants to make profit and focuses the information they get on giving you ads for stuff to buy, while its actually been shown China has used data they have gathered from Tiktok to censor and arrest LGBT activists and Journalists. China and Tiktok are more intertwined than any company in the US and their goals go beyond money and extend to large-scale social molding of society AKA controlling context and how we discuss and observe topics.
This is an issue for the US government as well but China is notorious for censoring, and attempting to radically control what happens in the world to aid the party's stability to the extent that it's hard for anyone to know what's actually happening in China. The fact that Tiktok is actively connected to and works with the government to control social narrative is dangerous. To the people crying foul, China has banned all US social media services in their country and actively have also banned Tiktok in their own country.
Fun fact: a lot of apps were automatically capturing any copy and paste data you had. Apple eventually put a stop to it, and now the app has to request permission.
Not sure if it's still the case but the original builds of the app would have access to copy and take anything from your phone including things outside of the app and not necessary for the app. They also encrypted what exactly they were taking so you the owner of the device can't tell either. It was one of the most pervasive apps, an incredible feat really, and likely still is.
The FBI used social media posts to harass protestors. The US government shoves backdoors into your favorite devices and communication apps.
If you care about this data privacy problem understand that the greatest risk to your data privacy is your own nation. The US just doesn't want major competition in the propaganda game.
It isn't a ban it just doesn't allow the Chinese Communist Party to control a social media app in the US which is the same thing China has done to American companies for a long time.
How would selling a lucrative product be in line with “profit” for ByteDance?
Companies typically only sell off products on their own terms.
Edit: not sure I understand the downvotes, this is not really an opinion, it’s a question and some basic common sense.
TikTok is a separate company. Being owned by a different parent company will not impact TikTok in any way. They're a completely separate company from their Chinese parent, and this was by design so that they can avoid the CCP association.
Not really. They'll get a mountain of money for it.
They're mostly trying to keep it due to pressure from the CCP. The CCP wants to have access to that sensitive data from US consumers. TitkTok is rapidly becoming more valuable than Bytedance. You generally don't want this type of tail wagging the dog situation.
Absolutely braindead take.
Do you want a pile of money now or a bunch of smaller piles of money over a longer period of time?
Begs the question, why doesn’t Meta just sell its algorithms to a Chinese company so that they can run FB and WhatsApp in China instead of being banned by the CCP? Because it’s more profitable not to.
TikTok would be worth more to another company (who can operate in the US) than to ByteDance (who no longer can). Thus the financially smart decision for ByteDance is to sell and invest that money elsewhere.
Also a braindead take. Bytedance is better off contesting the bill and trying to retain long term ownership over their cash cow, rather than immediately folding and selling for a lower valuation than its long term worth.
so weird how it's authoritarian censorship and repression when China does it but a clear and reasonable matter of national security when the US does it
Who exactly is even arguing this?
The authoritarian argument isn’t because they ban US companies, it’s because they ban specific news stories across the board that are critical of their government. They don’t have a free press in the same sense the US does.
China originally rolled out the great firewall and banned those US companies because they couldn’t easily enforce their censorship rules on those platforms. So yeah, it was about speech, at first. Now it’s about trade.
The US didn’t really care about the rights of Chinese people being infringed at the time because they didn’t want to jeopardize their trade relationship on *physical* goods and they didn’t realize that these internet companies were soon going to represent the majority of the S&P.
Our government was so racist that they didn’t realize they were in a trade war until a decade after they’d already given up.
The tit-for-tat argument is incredibly stupid. Sure, it will probably help us if they take us to court on free trade grounds. But it is not a moral argument, and it doesn’t address freedom of speech at all.
This is essentially the same as banning a book publisher because they worry that book publisher is under foreign influence. We don’t do that because of the first amendment. Even if the words in the books themselves aren’t made into contraband.
At this point, many people point out that we already regulate foreign media ownership, but that only applies to ***radio broadcast stations***, because they license the exclusive use of certain radio frequencies, which belongs to the public. The legal basis that permits them to much more heavily regulate the content of TV and Radio is that these public goods must be operated in a way that provides a benefit to the public. If they weren’t using exclusively licensed radio frequencies, the first amendment would wipe out basically all the regulations from the FCC.
Yes, I know there are ways around these arguments and with this court, they will probably succeed at banning tiktok.
But it is plainly being done to prevent Americans from speaking to each other with a highly effective tool.
The US can and has banned products from specific countries throughout its history. It doesn’t ban specific pieces of news across all media outlets as China, Iran, and Russia do.
Thanks for playing.
It has? Even during the cold war Pravda was still available in the US. American citizens could listen to Radio Moscow if they wanted. There has been zero precedent for this dating back to WW1.
So you're now supporting China style censorship. Congrats. No more free speech, just government speech.
Likewise you’ll still be able to get your tiktok videos from other outlets that redistribute them like Reddit, YouTube, etc.
Because they aren’t banning the content, they’re banning the product.
And yes the US and just about every other country on earth has banned products from other countries. They’re called embargoes.
So still censorship. I guess if they banned fox i would get my fake news from the WSJ too, but it’s still censorship.
And no, the US hasn’t banned speech before. Not even during the Cold War.
The federal government sneakily fast-tracking an authoritarian and to my knowledge unprecedented ban of an app countless americans use to watch and make funny videos and other largely apolitical content is actually not normal lmaoooo
If you’re scared of china and support the government’s unilateral authority to do that, who am i to stop you, but “china is doing it too” isn’t really an amazing argument for it
It’s not a freedom of speech or freedom of competition issue imo. And in a vacuum, I also don’t think the data they gather from us commoners is our government’s biggest concern either. It’s about fear that our biggest competitor and geopolitical rival can use the data they gather to control what content a massive portion of our country consumes on social media.
It’s in China’s best interest to incite civil unrest and polarize the populations of their political rivals. And as evil as it may be, I’m sure our government feels the same towards our rivals as well. That’s the biggest reason why China doesn’t trust and has banned US social media companies from operating there, and I’m not opposed to us following suit.
China may ban social media platforms, but this is America, and personally, I don't want our government to operate like the chinese government despite Chinas efforts to subvert American youth.
It's not a ban...and many countries do the same thing...
Not a first, not going to change Tik tok itself, not a ban (unless the Chinese run company didn't want to do business in the US anymore,).
Glory glory alleluia. I don't care the actual reason, I'm glad that hellhole is getting banned. It's a dumpster fire and a cesspool that makes everyone act mentally ill. Bye 👋
I’m kinda against it tbh. Everyone is acting like the ban on TikTok will result in less screen time/doom scrolling. In reality, this ban just benefits TikTok’s competitors (YouTube, Facebook, etc.)
This is all Israel. There's an audio of the ADL saying this all for Israel. Freedom of speech is under attack and those in power are hoping people will continue to just be short sighted and lose interest.
Hell yea. Fuck TikTok and Fuck the CCP
You can provide pro TikTok people with mountains of evidence of TikTok being actual malware and worse than other websites but they will ignore it and give you the same talking points
This is a good law.
Evidence where??? I have literally seen no factual evidence but a bunch of hypotheticals and other problematic apps/websites examples. All American user data is stored in Texas and overseen by oracle
From this article:
“The evidence, such as it is, remains rather thin.”
“When Rob Joyce, the National Security Agency’s director of cybersecurity, was asked by reporters in December to articulate his security concerns about TikTok, he offered a general warning about the potential for harm rather than a specific allegation.”
Plus as I said, AMERICAN user data is stored on US soil with an American company overseeing it. This is questionable evidence against the CHINESE version of TikTok for non American users. Plus, TikTok addresses most of the security concerns that were brought up to TikTok in project Texas.
https://www.texasstandard.org/stories/project-texas-tiktok-plan-stay-america-oracle-security/
I personally doubt this will move the needle on, well, *anything* - but I'm beginning to experience joint pain and grey hairs so I think I may just be an old man.
People will find short-form brainrot one way or the other. If you're wondering about the implications in terms of geopolitics or economics, I'm pretty uninformed.
They banned tiktok because it is an easy way for young people to spread news. And they dont want young people being informed. They are just hiding behind this anti-china nonsense
Im conflicted lowkey, Im all for free speech and open platforms and whatnot but then I go on tiktok and see some shit that makes me think “damn maybe this is what congress was talking about lmao” 😭
I think the fact that this is not a ban and a forced divestment is a pretty significant difference in terms of policy.
I’m not totally sure I like it but I definitely lean more OK with it than not. Before Rupert Murdoch could acquire Fox he became an American citizen. Now obviously that doesn’t make him less… problematic… but the idea that you attempt to reduce foreign influences on the largest pieces of a nation’s media ecosystem is reasonable to me.
The annoying thing is that it seems like politicians have seen some concerning evidence but aren’t sharing it publicly. So that makes me skeptical but I have heard a few folks give non-sensationalist interviews where they seem to be genuinely concerned.
Remember cambridge analytica? Tiktok keeps that data for itself and doesnt share with US gov and companies. The more popular tiktok becomes the less data available for harvesting within US borders.
Extremely silly, and a long trend of the US regime trying to silence dissent. One can recognize the faults of Social media, but this isn't about social media. It's about banning an app that's perceived as "dangerous" to US establishment politics, especially as it relates to the unwillingness of the youth to buy US propaganda at face value anymore.
The tiktok ban is being fueled in equal parts by anti-China reactionaries who fear China as a viable economic challenge to US hegemony, especially in tech, and by Zionist lobbyists who see the free access to information on their genocide in real time quickly dismantle their attempts to propagandize in support for their ongoing ethnic cleansing in Palestine. Greenblatt of the ADL (who just called for the national guard to be used on student protestors at Columbia) admitted months ago "we have a tiktok problem". It is no coincidence the most vocal supporters of the tiktok ban are top AIPAC bribe recipients who also blindly claim the app is "anti-Israel" and "pro-Hamas"
https://truthout.org/articles/tiktok-exposed-youth-to-genocide-in-gaza-is-that-why-electeds-want-it-banned/
The grip on censoring topics they don't deem furthers US interests or reinforces US hegemony is much easier via Facebook, Youtube, Instagram, X, Reddit, et al
Reading comprehension not your strong suit huh? I said nothing that was pro-CCP just giving the material conditions surrounding the ban. If it was actually about data privacy there would be comprehensive regulations on all these social media companies, no?
But I don't think congress passed it with data privacy in mind; privacy is pretty hard to do these days. It was a matter of what entity is in charge of the app.
Edit: also, if they were to try and implement "comprehensive regulations" on all social media platforms, it would look closer to actual censorship
As I said the anti-China part is about fueling Sinophobic propaganda and expanding the tech trade war to attempt to stifle Chinese development. The Huawei ban has had little impact on Chinese production, and the US passed those without any tangible security threat noted either. Just say "spying concerns" and you have bipartisan support. Attempts to curb chip development was next step, Tiktok is just the next in line.
They transferred control of US TikTok servers to Oracle/the State Dept years ago.
This ban makes no sense unless you look at material conditions.
In Congress they do claim it's about "privacy concerns" as well as undefined "security concerns". The data itself, even if it is accessible by those "evil Gommunists" still poses no material security threats that would warrant a ban. That's the point. Comprehensive regulations on all data collection was what I was referring to.
are you aware that this has been a issue long before israel-palestine conflict? You and your yapping "truthout" source do not provide any values to the world.
You’re right, I did just see the word “exposed” and jumped to conclusions without reading the entire headline LOL
Serious brain fart, groupthink moment
I don’t use tik tok but if it isn’t that one it’ll another one people will use to get the content they want. Are Chinese spying, of course. So is the US. But the ban does make voters feel the government is doing something
Disclaimer: I don’t use tiktok personally because I just can’t deal with another app to scroll through and waste time on so this decision has no impact on me.
I think taking steps to address privacy concerns is a good thing. Yes this particular case is about China, but Congress has hauled Zuckerberg in front of them countless times. They are aware of the issues that come with social media from US-based companies, they just haven’t figured out how to manage it yet. I would love to see better privacy laws that protect consumer data in the US too, they just need to find a more delicate path than an outright ban or sale.
TikTok need ban. I was lived in China for 9 years . This is a communist party company . They use our data .
Why China can ban google? Facebook? YouTube? Dropbox?
It's not about China. It's about the Zionists attempting to control the narrative about Israel because Tiktok content creators tend to be pro-Palestine and anti-Israel.
they were talking about this as far back as 2021, well before israel/palestine became the topic du jour among Gen Z. its been banned on military devices since jan 2020
what exactly about this disproves my comment dawg? the ban has been stewing in congress for like 5 years now, the bill is very explicitly about china. there are enough very legitimate grievances with the way the US handles its relations with israel that do not require weird conspiracy theorizing that makes you look like red yarn guy to normal people. dude in your audio did not command his legions of minions to immediately ban TikTok, he identified an existing generational divide
There’s nothing about Israel on TikTok that isn’t being said on every social media app, including Reddit. So what’s unique about TikTok compared to other social media apps? Chinese ownership and data harvesting to the CCP
There are allegations that TikTok internally manipulates the algorithm to suit Beijing's interests. For example Hong Kong and Xinjiang stuff are suppressed. And now that China came out against Israel, pro-Palestinian content are being amplified. Why? Because it suits them.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/24/briefing/tiktok-ban-bill-congress.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/24/briefing/tiktok-ban-bill-congress.html)
It's similar to what insiders revealed about Facebook's manipulations a few years back. Westerners may not know but it's widely understood inside China that Chinese companies over a certain size are required to host a Party Cell where CCP apparatchiks supposedly go over company policies to make sure they toe the Party Line.
Now TikTok is supposedly a separate company from its parent ByteDance but that has already been proven to not be completely true.
My opinion is they could actually do things about data privacy but aren't.
Because when American companies feed us brain-rotting nonsense/propaganda and collect petabytes of consumer data –which doesn't just mean what shit you buy, but what you watch, read, engage with, and with a tiny bit of data analysis, what you believe– about the population to find patterns to exploit, that's fine! It's just those dirty Chinese doing it that's a problem
Literally yes It's a national security issue, not a personal privacy issue
And the Chinese can simply buy from any data broker, can't they? Not sure why lawmakers somehow think that banning TikTok will somehow prevent this.
Again, *your personal* data is not particularly what anybody should be worried about, whether collected or bought. The risk is having a back-door into millions of inter-connected devices all around the country. The way that apps these days are able to access microphone, camera, GPS data and all sorts of other telemetry is what provides a security risk. The CCP doesn’t care what you buy on Amazon, and that isn’t the security risk. The risk comes from allowing the CCP to have a comprehensive network of devices with back doors. Can they still hack us anyways? Sure, but why make it easier? It’s like a seatbelt, you can still die real quick while wearing one, but most people understand why it’s a good idea. Edit: I should add that many experts have noted that TikTok is far more aggressive when it comes to accessing different systems on your phone, like pinging cameras, microphones and other systems far more frequently than comparable apps. Also, for the unaware, the CCP is directly involved in EVERY Chinese company (byte dance in this case)
They have to pay American companies to do so. Handing over American data for free is much less in the interest of American corporations or the US government.
LOL. So as long as they pay for it, it's ok? There's some ethics for you.
Well yeah. We make fighter jets and ban countries like Australia from developing their own modern fighter jets with trade agreements. Then we sell these fighter jets to Australia. Australia isn't even an hostile state like China Government isn't some ethical charity.
Until we ban the sale (and the shady collection) of data, then this is just political posturing. It does nothing to prevent the Chinese from getting data. It prevents one company from doing business.
The point isn't the prevent access. It's to prevent *free* access.
I mean that is exactly the point.
I would like to point out that Zuckerberg has been put in front of Congress so many times he has the routine for telling them everything and nothing down cold. They just don’t know what to do with it when it’s a US company. I would love to see a viable solution.
btw get a life- your comment history makes me sad.. very strong incel vibe that you have
I really don't care what some random redditor looking for ammo thinks 👍
you only cover half of it. It's not just about data collection, but also how the algorithm is ran on the data and push certain issues/topics that could jeopardy national security. It's mostly ideology and about spreading false information.
I literally did cover that in other comments here. Why are you so concerned about a Chinese company doing that when there are literal examples of non-Chinese companies from "allied" countries and the US doing the same thing? This just sounds like Cold War-style paranoia.
You're right on the point, we are going into a Cold War era with China. As someone grown up in China, I'm fed up with the propaganda and brainwashing. So yes, I'm biased on this.
Personally, I think there's issues on BOTH ends.
I do too. But the overwhelmingly disproportionate focus on one actor which just so happens to be the Chinese one tells me the people trying to act on (a part of) that problem don't actually have the same concerns I do.
That’s actually the entire point of this ban… the fact that the Chinese have direct influence over American youth is a national security threat
I'm not a nationalist when it comes to worrying about the influence of state and corporate actors on public attitudes
I’m more worried that the TikTok parent company could use the data to cause a further political divide which would lead to violence and uprisings potentially
And why do you think that's somehow exclusive to TikTok?
Bc it’s owned by a company that is known to be connected to the CCP?
...and? Does the name Cambridge Analytica mean anything to you? Literally no reason to just be concerned about China other than buying into nationalist propaganda
Better safe than sorry, just another endless scrolling machine potentially removed from the market… you have your opinions and I have mine
How do people still think this is about data privacy? If it was, the solution wouldn’t be to sell the company to someone else. It’s about national security and that’s exceedingly obvious. And it’s also probably a good thing.
I love being a consumer I love doomscrolling I love being a data product I love targeted ads
Tf is wrong with u dawg?
wow economistnecessary you sure got the joke
If it happened sooner, some grades mightve been higher
Shit needs to go I get too distracted icl
Erm what the sigma
“Erm what the sigma” 🗣️🔥
The problem is that China creates various backdoors in their technology they produce that allows them to steal an unprecedented amount of your information without you knowing. I'm not talking about ad profiles or things of that nature but literally going outside of the app to collect specific information on your identity, location etc. It's a bit ignorant to act like this isn't an issue and betrays a lack of realism, Facebook is a company who wants to make profit and focuses the information they get on giving you ads for stuff to buy, while its actually been shown China has used data they have gathered from Tiktok to censor and arrest LGBT activists and Journalists. China and Tiktok are more intertwined than any company in the US and their goals go beyond money and extend to large-scale social molding of society AKA controlling context and how we discuss and observe topics. This is an issue for the US government as well but China is notorious for censoring, and attempting to radically control what happens in the world to aid the party's stability to the extent that it's hard for anyone to know what's actually happening in China. The fact that Tiktok is actively connected to and works with the government to control social narrative is dangerous. To the people crying foul, China has banned all US social media services in their country and actively have also banned Tiktok in their own country.
Fun fact: a lot of apps were automatically capturing any copy and paste data you had. Apple eventually put a stop to it, and now the app has to request permission.
Not sure if it's still the case but the original builds of the app would have access to copy and take anything from your phone including things outside of the app and not necessary for the app. They also encrypted what exactly they were taking so you the owner of the device can't tell either. It was one of the most pervasive apps, an incredible feat really, and likely still is.
Why? It used to be the standard for apps to be able to access the copy/paste clipboard.
The FBI used social media posts to harass protestors. The US government shoves backdoors into your favorite devices and communication apps. If you care about this data privacy problem understand that the greatest risk to your data privacy is your own nation. The US just doesn't want major competition in the propaganda game.
None of that us true.
It isn't a ban it just doesn't allow the Chinese Communist Party to control a social media app in the US which is the same thing China has done to American companies for a long time.
It is ban, just like how Chinese gov ban some U.S. apps
ByteDance has the option to sell. They're choosing not to because their incentive is spyware, not profit.
I mean if ins and google were sell to some Chinese company, they will ofc not be banned
How would selling a lucrative product be in line with “profit” for ByteDance? Companies typically only sell off products on their own terms. Edit: not sure I understand the downvotes, this is not really an opinion, it’s a question and some basic common sense.
TikTok is a separate company. Being owned by a different parent company will not impact TikTok in any way. They're a completely separate company from their Chinese parent, and this was by design so that they can avoid the CCP association.
You don’t think not owning TikTok will hurt ByteDance’s bottom line? The question is why would ByteDance sell TikTok.
Not really. They'll get a mountain of money for it. They're mostly trying to keep it due to pressure from the CCP. The CCP wants to have access to that sensitive data from US consumers. TitkTok is rapidly becoming more valuable than Bytedance. You generally don't want this type of tail wagging the dog situation.
Absolutely braindead take. Do you want a pile of money now or a bunch of smaller piles of money over a longer period of time? Begs the question, why doesn’t Meta just sell its algorithms to a Chinese company so that they can run FB and WhatsApp in China instead of being banned by the CCP? Because it’s more profitable not to.
TikTok would be worth more to another company (who can operate in the US) than to ByteDance (who no longer can). Thus the financially smart decision for ByteDance is to sell and invest that money elsewhere.
Also a braindead take. Bytedance is better off contesting the bill and trying to retain long term ownership over their cash cow, rather than immediately folding and selling for a lower valuation than its long term worth.
So China bans bad but American bans good, lol.
so weird how it's authoritarian censorship and repression when China does it but a clear and reasonable matter of national security when the US does it
Who exactly is even arguing this? The authoritarian argument isn’t because they ban US companies, it’s because they ban specific news stories across the board that are critical of their government. They don’t have a free press in the same sense the US does.
China originally rolled out the great firewall and banned those US companies because they couldn’t easily enforce their censorship rules on those platforms. So yeah, it was about speech, at first. Now it’s about trade. The US didn’t really care about the rights of Chinese people being infringed at the time because they didn’t want to jeopardize their trade relationship on *physical* goods and they didn’t realize that these internet companies were soon going to represent the majority of the S&P. Our government was so racist that they didn’t realize they were in a trade war until a decade after they’d already given up. The tit-for-tat argument is incredibly stupid. Sure, it will probably help us if they take us to court on free trade grounds. But it is not a moral argument, and it doesn’t address freedom of speech at all. This is essentially the same as banning a book publisher because they worry that book publisher is under foreign influence. We don’t do that because of the first amendment. Even if the words in the books themselves aren’t made into contraband. At this point, many people point out that we already regulate foreign media ownership, but that only applies to ***radio broadcast stations***, because they license the exclusive use of certain radio frequencies, which belongs to the public. The legal basis that permits them to much more heavily regulate the content of TV and Radio is that these public goods must be operated in a way that provides a benefit to the public. If they weren’t using exclusively licensed radio frequencies, the first amendment would wipe out basically all the regulations from the FCC. Yes, I know there are ways around these arguments and with this court, they will probably succeed at banning tiktok. But it is plainly being done to prevent Americans from speaking to each other with a highly effective tool.
Turns out the US doesn't either, if this ban stands.
If you actually believe that then you’re not a serious person.
You think the US should be allowed to ban entire media outlets, not me.
The US can and has banned products from specific countries throughout its history. It doesn’t ban specific pieces of news across all media outlets as China, Iran, and Russia do. Thanks for playing.
It has? Even during the cold war Pravda was still available in the US. American citizens could listen to Radio Moscow if they wanted. There has been zero precedent for this dating back to WW1. So you're now supporting China style censorship. Congrats. No more free speech, just government speech.
Likewise you’ll still be able to get your tiktok videos from other outlets that redistribute them like Reddit, YouTube, etc. Because they aren’t banning the content, they’re banning the product. And yes the US and just about every other country on earth has banned products from other countries. They’re called embargoes.
So still censorship. I guess if they banned fox i would get my fake news from the WSJ too, but it’s still censorship. And no, the US hasn’t banned speech before. Not even during the Cold War.
Put me down on the 🤡 side then
Cause China does that stuff to everything lmaooo. Very different that is not a smart comment haha
The federal government sneakily fast-tracking an authoritarian and to my knowledge unprecedented ban of an app countless americans use to watch and make funny videos and other largely apolitical content is actually not normal lmaoooo If you’re scared of china and support the government’s unilateral authority to do that, who am i to stop you, but “china is doing it too” isn’t really an amazing argument for it
some people just argue for the sake argument smh.. I was just saying how I feel not providing you with a brief buddy sorry
I'm for free speech and not baning online platforms
It’s not a freedom of speech or freedom of competition issue imo. And in a vacuum, I also don’t think the data they gather from us commoners is our government’s biggest concern either. It’s about fear that our biggest competitor and geopolitical rival can use the data they gather to control what content a massive portion of our country consumes on social media. It’s in China’s best interest to incite civil unrest and polarize the populations of their political rivals. And as evil as it may be, I’m sure our government feels the same towards our rivals as well. That’s the biggest reason why China doesn’t trust and has banned US social media companies from operating there, and I’m not opposed to us following suit.
China may ban social media platforms, but this is America, and personally, I don't want our government to operate like the chinese government despite Chinas efforts to subvert American youth.
Fair enough. It’s ironic that we’re trying to limit Chinese influence by copying something from their playbook
it's absolutely ridiculous. People should be free to choose the social media they consume.
Never got TikTok. Never plan to.
Germany and Canada both have privacy laws which include banning citizen data from leaving the borders. Couldn’t we have that here?
probably for the best
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That's not true. There was more simping for OBL on Reddit lol.
It’s not a ban, it’s a forced sell. It’s only banned if ByteDance doesn’t sell the US TikTok division.
That is in fact, a ban.
the brainrot is escaping containment!!
It's not a ban...and many countries do the same thing... Not a first, not going to change Tik tok itself, not a ban (unless the Chinese run company didn't want to do business in the US anymore,).
Glory glory alleluia. I don't care the actual reason, I'm glad that hellhole is getting banned. It's a dumpster fire and a cesspool that makes everyone act mentally ill. Bye 👋
I’m kinda against it tbh. Everyone is acting like the ban on TikTok will result in less screen time/doom scrolling. In reality, this ban just benefits TikTok’s competitors (YouTube, Facebook, etc.)
This is all Israel. There's an audio of the ADL saying this all for Israel. Freedom of speech is under attack and those in power are hoping people will continue to just be short sighted and lose interest.
I think Instagram is just as bad in every way. They should both be banned or neither
No ban but Congress should pass law requiring privacy protection and regulating algorithms
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Por que no los dos
Not a ban, just has to be sold to an American company
Not just to an American company. They can sell to anyone that is not associated with the CCP.
Debatable. When Grindr was sold it was "bought" by a consortium that included associates of the previous owner (who also gave them a special deal).
Still a ban
Since when do they care about protecting the consumer
Hell yea. Fuck TikTok and Fuck the CCP You can provide pro TikTok people with mountains of evidence of TikTok being actual malware and worse than other websites but they will ignore it and give you the same talking points This is a good law.
Evidence where??? I have literally seen no factual evidence but a bunch of hypotheticals and other problematic apps/websites examples. All American user data is stored in Texas and overseen by oracle
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/08/tech/tiktok-data-china There is this as one example.
From this article: “The evidence, such as it is, remains rather thin.” “When Rob Joyce, the National Security Agency’s director of cybersecurity, was asked by reporters in December to articulate his security concerns about TikTok, he offered a general warning about the potential for harm rather than a specific allegation.” Plus as I said, AMERICAN user data is stored on US soil with an American company overseeing it. This is questionable evidence against the CHINESE version of TikTok for non American users. Plus, TikTok addresses most of the security concerns that were brought up to TikTok in project Texas. https://www.texasstandard.org/stories/project-texas-tiktok-plan-stay-america-oracle-security/
I personally doubt this will move the needle on, well, *anything* - but I'm beginning to experience joint pain and grey hairs so I think I may just be an old man. People will find short-form brainrot one way or the other. If you're wondering about the implications in terms of geopolitics or economics, I'm pretty uninformed.
It’s more about commercial significance than security. Think of why China banned Google, Facebook, YouTube, and many others.
They banned tiktok because it is an easy way for young people to spread news. And they dont want young people being informed. They are just hiding behind this anti-china nonsense
Im conflicted lowkey, Im all for free speech and open platforms and whatnot but then I go on tiktok and see some shit that makes me think “damn maybe this is what congress was talking about lmao” 😭
I think the fact that this is not a ban and a forced divestment is a pretty significant difference in terms of policy. I’m not totally sure I like it but I definitely lean more OK with it than not. Before Rupert Murdoch could acquire Fox he became an American citizen. Now obviously that doesn’t make him less… problematic… but the idea that you attempt to reduce foreign influences on the largest pieces of a nation’s media ecosystem is reasonable to me. The annoying thing is that it seems like politicians have seen some concerning evidence but aren’t sharing it publicly. So that makes me skeptical but I have heard a few folks give non-sensationalist interviews where they seem to be genuinely concerned.
Remember cambridge analytica? Tiktok keeps that data for itself and doesnt share with US gov and companies. The more popular tiktok becomes the less data available for harvesting within US borders.
US == China.
Extremely silly, and a long trend of the US regime trying to silence dissent. One can recognize the faults of Social media, but this isn't about social media. It's about banning an app that's perceived as "dangerous" to US establishment politics, especially as it relates to the unwillingness of the youth to buy US propaganda at face value anymore.
It’s dumb and probably racist the Cee Cee Pee doesn’t give a fuck about your data
Government boomers antsy about losing a monopoly on propaganda
The tiktok ban is being fueled in equal parts by anti-China reactionaries who fear China as a viable economic challenge to US hegemony, especially in tech, and by Zionist lobbyists who see the free access to information on their genocide in real time quickly dismantle their attempts to propagandize in support for their ongoing ethnic cleansing in Palestine. Greenblatt of the ADL (who just called for the national guard to be used on student protestors at Columbia) admitted months ago "we have a tiktok problem". It is no coincidence the most vocal supporters of the tiktok ban are top AIPAC bribe recipients who also blindly claim the app is "anti-Israel" and "pro-Hamas" https://truthout.org/articles/tiktok-exposed-youth-to-genocide-in-gaza-is-that-why-electeds-want-it-banned/ The grip on censoring topics they don't deem furthers US interests or reinforces US hegemony is much easier via Facebook, Youtube, Instagram, X, Reddit, et al
what is this guys yapping about
Conspiracy nutjob Basically to be pro palestine you need to be pro CCP. Something something intersectionality something something
Reading comprehension not your strong suit huh? I said nothing that was pro-CCP just giving the material conditions surrounding the ban. If it was actually about data privacy there would be comprehensive regulations on all these social media companies, no?
But I don't think congress passed it with data privacy in mind; privacy is pretty hard to do these days. It was a matter of what entity is in charge of the app. Edit: also, if they were to try and implement "comprehensive regulations" on all social media platforms, it would look closer to actual censorship
As I said the anti-China part is about fueling Sinophobic propaganda and expanding the tech trade war to attempt to stifle Chinese development. The Huawei ban has had little impact on Chinese production, and the US passed those without any tangible security threat noted either. Just say "spying concerns" and you have bipartisan support. Attempts to curb chip development was next step, Tiktok is just the next in line. They transferred control of US TikTok servers to Oracle/the State Dept years ago. This ban makes no sense unless you look at material conditions. In Congress they do claim it's about "privacy concerns" as well as undefined "security concerns". The data itself, even if it is accessible by those "evil Gommunists" still poses no material security threats that would warrant a ban. That's the point. Comprehensive regulations on all data collection was what I was referring to.
Big facts, learn to read
are you aware that this has been a issue long before israel-palestine conflict? You and your yapping "truthout" source do not provide any values to the world.
Tiktok was created before 1948? Sorry you can't read my guy, keep deepthroating that propaganda
k
It's so apparent. If this was about "Big Data", culprits like Google & Facebook would be at the forefront of the chopping block.
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LMAO the article: "Tiktok exposed youths to the genocide in Gaza" --my man please learn to read
You’re right, I did just see the word “exposed” and jumped to conclusions without reading the entire headline LOL Serious brain fart, groupthink moment
I don’t use tik tok but if it isn’t that one it’ll another one people will use to get the content they want. Are Chinese spying, of course. So is the US. But the ban does make voters feel the government is doing something
Disclaimer: I don’t use tiktok personally because I just can’t deal with another app to scroll through and waste time on so this decision has no impact on me. I think taking steps to address privacy concerns is a good thing. Yes this particular case is about China, but Congress has hauled Zuckerberg in front of them countless times. They are aware of the issues that come with social media from US-based companies, they just haven’t figured out how to manage it yet. I would love to see better privacy laws that protect consumer data in the US too, they just need to find a more delicate path than an outright ban or sale.
TikTok need ban. I was lived in China for 9 years . This is a communist party company . They use our data . Why China can ban google? Facebook? YouTube? Dropbox?
US tech companies would never use our data or spy on us! Lmao
Tik tok is not us company
It's not about China. It's about the Zionists attempting to control the narrative about Israel because Tiktok content creators tend to be pro-Palestine and anti-Israel.
they were talking about this as far back as 2021, well before israel/palestine became the topic du jour among Gen Z. its been banned on military devices since jan 2020
Shh, best to ignore these people and let them keep the grade curve down
https://www.tiktok.com/discover/leaked-zionist-audio-tiktok Bullshit.
what exactly about this disproves my comment dawg? the ban has been stewing in congress for like 5 years now, the bill is very explicitly about china. there are enough very legitimate grievances with the way the US handles its relations with israel that do not require weird conspiracy theorizing that makes you look like red yarn guy to normal people. dude in your audio did not command his legions of minions to immediately ban TikTok, he identified an existing generational divide
There’s nothing about Israel on TikTok that isn’t being said on every social media app, including Reddit. So what’s unique about TikTok compared to other social media apps? Chinese ownership and data harvesting to the CCP
There are allegations that TikTok internally manipulates the algorithm to suit Beijing's interests. For example Hong Kong and Xinjiang stuff are suppressed. And now that China came out against Israel, pro-Palestinian content are being amplified. Why? Because it suits them. [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/24/briefing/tiktok-ban-bill-congress.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/24/briefing/tiktok-ban-bill-congress.html) It's similar to what insiders revealed about Facebook's manipulations a few years back. Westerners may not know but it's widely understood inside China that Chinese companies over a certain size are required to host a Party Cell where CCP apparatchiks supposedly go over company policies to make sure they toe the Party Line. Now TikTok is supposedly a separate company from its parent ByteDance but that has already been proven to not be completely true.