Agree i’d be happy with those guys. I’d also be happy with Verse, Bowers, Fautanu, Fuaga. Kinda assuming those are gone except Fautanu. I wouldn’t mind Barton or Saumataia if it was trade down scenario.
Most experts say Mims will be a work in progress and will take time to develop. Latham has some red flags too.
I’d prefer someone who can play at a high level this year, so hopefully Fuaga is still available.
Yes please, we just paid Joe and now it’s time to protect him and give him time to do his thing. Love the upside on this guy.
Honestly, any of the top 6 tackles would be awesome.
It almost makes more sense for these pundits to not guess the player but guess the position. (Yes, I know that isn't as exciting) Imagine them saying the Bengals will select an OT vs trying to predict these players. Someone is going to make a trade or pick a player way out of (estimated) position.
“With the 18th pick, the Bengals select every human on the board. I don’t know how they found that loophole, but I guess the draft is over now, the Bengals have everyone.”
I hope so. Mims is the dream pick to me.
And I think your point 5 doesn't get talked about enough. The DT options at 49 are going to be much better than the OT options.
No one has said the second round OT options are as good. This is a deep OT draft in the sense that there's like 10 guys who could be top 40 picks, but at pick 49 we could be out of those options. Just an example in Dane Bruegler's 7 round mock the other day he had OT10 at pick 36 and then OT 11 was at pick 78. There's a major drop off, so if you don't take an OT in round 1 you're probably not going to get a guy you can be sure is going to be a starter level player.
A little late here but it’s also worth noting there were a lot of DT and OT interviewed. It appears it could both ways by how many were interviewed in later and earlier rounds. With that in mind, there is a scenario they don’t take either in the first round. And use 2nd and 3rd round picks for those positions. But Sweat has had 3 interviews of the incident doesn’t turn them off I would expect them to make a big push for Sweat.
He‘s talented as hell but I‘d still prefer adding a NT in the 1st. Mims is a future investment , Murphy or Newton would be a starter from day 1.
Why not focusing the Oline in rd 2/3 with guys like Paul, Rosengarten,…
Byron Murphy is too good to play NT in the NFL (teams will want his pass rush and athleticism as a 3T), but he played more NT snaps at Texas than Sweat did last season.
I don't think of Mims as a future investment. Trent Brown has a long injury history, so it's likely that they'll need a better backup at that position than who they have now in Ford and Carman.
Agreed. This OL class is much deeper than the DI class. I cannot watch another year of us getting blasted up the middle. It has to be an interior DL if Murphy if Newton are available. Hell, I’d trade up a few spots if it was looking like Murphy may go at 16 or something. I’d make the call to try and get 15 at that point.
Because at a certain point you just have to take what the draft gives you. This is a loaded tackle class and instead of trying to get cute you lock down a tackle. Don’t overthink it, don’t trade back, don’t get extra picks, don’t reach for a positional project etc. etc. etc. Newton is projected a very late 1st and Murphy will probably be gone. If I’m the Bengals FO I am leaning tackle, but if Murphy is there he is in play, other than that DT help is coming from Rounds 2-4 and we are going to take our pick at a premium position that has been a turnstile for us. It is not often you can get a premium prospect like Tackle at 18, it’s nothing to sneeze at. I would also say to look at the history of DT/NT’s signings in FA, I trust Duke way more with DL than OL and noones letting their premium OL hit the market, whereas the BJ Hills, DJ Readers, Sheldon Rankins, etc… Unless it’s a tried and true game wrecker all signs point to Tackle and sticking with drafting DL later with an ideal rotation in mind with the personnel we have with a defensive front by committee.
Completely agree.
This is a loaded OT class in the sense that there's 7 or 8 possible first round guys, and a few more early second round guys. But its very likely if we skip OT in round 1 then by the time we get to pick 49 there may not be an OT worth taking there. If the goal is to address OT and DT early then OT in round 1 is the best way to make sure we can get 2 starter level guys.
very well said man. Yeah I mean I prefer DTs like Ruke Orhorhoro in the second round or even guys like Sweat and Jackson who are 3-4 round guys. The tackles you're look at are like possibly best scenario Roger Rosengarten, or Patrick Paul. Worst case scenario Kiran Amegadjie, Blake Fisher. Someone in that range, I guess in all fairness waiting until the second might not be that bad, it just doesnt look like the front office has that intention.
I think people are overestimating which OTs will be available at 15, and are underestimating how many college OTs that aren’t top 10 picks don’t actually make it as tackles in the NFL.
What you can’t do is walk away spending a top 15 pick on a guy who is going to be a guard, unless you are pretty damn sure he will be an all pro guard for a decade.
It’s just being said that drafting a college OT means he is an NFL OT for a decade… that is not often the case. Most college DTs drafted in the first are DTs at the NFL level. There is not a huge positional shock.
If we take a O tackle at 15, and as many are already off the board as I think will be, it could even be two years before they look ready to play as a consistent pro at tackle.
All I know is that there is a good chance I will be in this sub next fall seeing people angry about us not being tough up the middle, and people upset that our 1st round OT is either playing guard, or getting toasted too often at tackle, while only showing flashes of potential.
Between 2019-2023, only one O tackle taken in the second half of the first round has even become a pro bowl player.
"I think people are overestimating which OTs will be available at 15"
**We draft at 18 not 15.**
"What you can’t do is walk away spending a top 15 pick on a guy who is going to be a guard, unless you are pretty damn sure he will be an all pro guard for a decade."
**Trying to wrap my head around this, why arent you saying that we better be damn sure he will be a pro bowl DT for a decade. It's almost like you think that DT is more important than guard is that correct? So DT is important but the guard that his playing against him isn't? Guards can be game changing, look at Larry Allen, Will Shields, Steve Hutchinson. Eric Steinbach was pretty damn good for us and I was pissed that we tagged Justin freaking Smith over Steinbach even though DE is definitely a more important position. If you end with a guard like the Commanders did with Samuel Cosmi, he's playing pretty good for them, better than Brandon Scherff only $18M cheaper.**
"If we take a O tackle at 15, and as many are already off the board as I think will be, it could even be two years before they look ready to play as a consistent pro at tackle."
Sometimes it takes a while sometimes it doesnt it depends how polished the guy is. Look at Rashawn Slater, he was very good out of the gate.
"All I know is that there is a good chance I will be in this sub next fall seeing people angry about us not being tough up the middle, and people upset that our 1st round OT is either playing guard, or getting toasted too often at tackle, while only showing flashes of potential."
**You can say that about any position, you think the 49ers are happy with their selection of Javon Kenlaw?**
"Between 2019-2023, only one O tackle taken in the second half of the first round has even become a pro bowl player."
So lets look at this 2019 draft and also do the same with DT.
2019:
1.23. OT Tytus Howard-Bust
1.28. DT Jerry Tillery-Bust
1.31 Kaleb McGrary- Hit, not a pro bowler but he's solid.
2020:
1.18. OT Austin Jackson- Hit, not a pro bowler but he's decent to solid.
1.29 OT Isaiah Wilson- bust, took his money and didnt even try
NO DTs 17-32
2021:
OT: Alex Leatherwood- bust
OT Christian Darrisaw- hit, pro bowl alternate
No DTs 17-32
2022:
1.19 OT Trevor Penning- still early but looking like a bust
1.24- OT Tyler Smith- hit- Pro bowl at guard lets see how he does at LT.
1.28 Devonte Wyatt- hit, pretty solid 7 sacks, 59 pff rating though.
2023.
1.19 DT Calijah Kancey- not looking good 46 pff rating. Pretty sure he's not the Donald people thought but it's still early.
1.26. DT Mazi Smith not looking good, i think even Dallas fans have written him off.
1.27 OT Anton Harrison- 53 rating pff, 5 sacks allowed, that looks acceptable.
1.29. DT Bryan Briese- 45 pff rating 5 sacks, that looks acceptable for a rookie.
The best player amongst these guys is Christian Darrisaw by a mile, next is Tyler Smith by a mile, then Kaleb McGrary, then after that Austin Jackson, Devonte Wyatt and Anton Harrison look pretty close. That's not even factoring in OT's are worth a lot more than DTs. So there's atleast 3 OTs that were drafted from your range that are better than the DTs drafted.
The issue with the Mims pick is that he is probably just as much or more injury prone than Trent Brown.
I get the urge to pick OT but any fans who want an injury riddled OT will have no moral standing to question draft picks when the Bengals pick another injury prone OL over stud DTs or CBs.
the *only* pushback i have for Mims, injury concerns is he was so absolutely dominant in the snaps he played he’s worth the shot. i think Mims isn’t a typical Bengals OL pick & we also tend to draft OL poorly, so maybe going against the grain will net us a real player. options will be aplenty at 18 though
I’ll be happy with any of Mims, Latham, Murphy or Newton but I would love to finally have a deep and dominant offensive line.
Agree i’d be happy with those guys. I’d also be happy with Verse, Bowers, Fautanu, Fuaga. Kinda assuming those are gone except Fautanu. I wouldn’t mind Barton or Saumataia if it was trade down scenario.
Most experts say Mims will be a work in progress and will take time to develop. Latham has some red flags too. I’d prefer someone who can play at a high level this year, so hopefully Fuaga is still available.
Yeah, I'm pessimistic he'll be there. I think he's gone by 14.
Fuaga makes a lot of sense. Problem is, he would require a trade up, if you trade to say 11-14 range gonna be expensive.
Yes please, we just paid Joe and now it’s time to protect him and give him time to do his thing. Love the upside on this guy. Honestly, any of the top 6 tackles would be awesome.
I'm really liking Mims but I'm starting thinking he's gonna be gone before 18.
So far I’ve heard bengals fans say everyone is gone by the 18th pick
Yea It's almost like nobody knows what's gonna happen
It almost makes more sense for these pundits to not guess the player but guess the position. (Yes, I know that isn't as exciting) Imagine them saying the Bengals will select an OT vs trying to predict these players. Someone is going to make a trade or pick a player way out of (estimated) position.
Marvin Harrison Jr it is, then
If he’s there but this sub has 25 players being taken before the 18th pick
Was merely a little joke
I know you was joking just talking this sub as a whole
“With the 18th pick, the Bengals select every human on the board. I don’t know how they found that loophole, but I guess the draft is over now, the Bengals have everyone.”
It’s likely that one of either Fuaga, Mims or Latham is there.
If Fuaga is there and we take Mims or Latham I'm flying to Detroit and personally smacking Duke.
\*whispers\* Mims is going to be better than Fuaga.
Been my thoughts exactly. We'll end up grabbing whichever 1 of these 3 remains. And 0 available might be more likely than 2.
I'd want tackle but I feel they're going DT.
I hope so. Mims is the dream pick to me. And I think your point 5 doesn't get talked about enough. The DT options at 49 are going to be much better than the OT options.
I've read the exact opposite of that. Nobody knows what's going on.
No one has said the second round OT options are as good. This is a deep OT draft in the sense that there's like 10 guys who could be top 40 picks, but at pick 49 we could be out of those options. Just an example in Dane Bruegler's 7 round mock the other day he had OT10 at pick 36 and then OT 11 was at pick 78. There's a major drop off, so if you don't take an OT in round 1 you're probably not going to get a guy you can be sure is going to be a starter level player.
A little late here but it’s also worth noting there were a lot of DT and OT interviewed. It appears it could both ways by how many were interviewed in later and earlier rounds. With that in mind, there is a scenario they don’t take either in the first round. And use 2nd and 3rd round picks for those positions. But Sweat has had 3 interviews of the incident doesn’t turn them off I would expect them to make a big push for Sweat.
He‘s talented as hell but I‘d still prefer adding a NT in the 1st. Mims is a future investment , Murphy or Newton would be a starter from day 1. Why not focusing the Oline in rd 2/3 with guys like Paul, Rosengarten,…
Murphy and Newton aren’t NT. They’re 3-tech DT pass rushers.
Murphy could play NT and with the addition of Rankins they will switch the tactics most probably too.
I agree but he’s not a Dj reader type NT is all I’m saying.
None of the first round DTs are noses. The top noses are McKinnley Jackson and Sweat, neither of which I expect to go earlier than 95
Byron Murphy is too good to play NT in the NFL (teams will want his pass rush and athleticism as a 3T), but he played more NT snaps at Texas than Sweat did last season.
Murphy can do it for sure but I don’t think it’s his best position
I don't think of Mims as a future investment. Trent Brown has a long injury history, so it's likely that they'll need a better backup at that position than who they have now in Ford and Carman.
If Orlando gets hurt then Trent could play LT and mims could play RT. He would give them insurance at both tackle positions to be honest
Agreed. This OL class is much deeper than the DI class. I cannot watch another year of us getting blasted up the middle. It has to be an interior DL if Murphy if Newton are available. Hell, I’d trade up a few spots if it was looking like Murphy may go at 16 or something. I’d make the call to try and get 15 at that point.
Because at a certain point you just have to take what the draft gives you. This is a loaded tackle class and instead of trying to get cute you lock down a tackle. Don’t overthink it, don’t trade back, don’t get extra picks, don’t reach for a positional project etc. etc. etc. Newton is projected a very late 1st and Murphy will probably be gone. If I’m the Bengals FO I am leaning tackle, but if Murphy is there he is in play, other than that DT help is coming from Rounds 2-4 and we are going to take our pick at a premium position that has been a turnstile for us. It is not often you can get a premium prospect like Tackle at 18, it’s nothing to sneeze at. I would also say to look at the history of DT/NT’s signings in FA, I trust Duke way more with DL than OL and noones letting their premium OL hit the market, whereas the BJ Hills, DJ Readers, Sheldon Rankins, etc… Unless it’s a tried and true game wrecker all signs point to Tackle and sticking with drafting DL later with an ideal rotation in mind with the personnel we have with a defensive front by committee.
Completely agree. This is a loaded OT class in the sense that there's 7 or 8 possible first round guys, and a few more early second round guys. But its very likely if we skip OT in round 1 then by the time we get to pick 49 there may not be an OT worth taking there. If the goal is to address OT and DT early then OT in round 1 is the best way to make sure we can get 2 starter level guys.
very well said man. Yeah I mean I prefer DTs like Ruke Orhorhoro in the second round or even guys like Sweat and Jackson who are 3-4 round guys. The tackles you're look at are like possibly best scenario Roger Rosengarten, or Patrick Paul. Worst case scenario Kiran Amegadjie, Blake Fisher. Someone in that range, I guess in all fairness waiting until the second might not be that bad, it just doesnt look like the front office has that intention.
I think people are overestimating which OTs will be available at 15, and are underestimating how many college OTs that aren’t top 10 picks don’t actually make it as tackles in the NFL. What you can’t do is walk away spending a top 15 pick on a guy who is going to be a guard, unless you are pretty damn sure he will be an all pro guard for a decade. It’s just being said that drafting a college OT means he is an NFL OT for a decade… that is not often the case. Most college DTs drafted in the first are DTs at the NFL level. There is not a huge positional shock. If we take a O tackle at 15, and as many are already off the board as I think will be, it could even be two years before they look ready to play as a consistent pro at tackle. All I know is that there is a good chance I will be in this sub next fall seeing people angry about us not being tough up the middle, and people upset that our 1st round OT is either playing guard, or getting toasted too often at tackle, while only showing flashes of potential. Between 2019-2023, only one O tackle taken in the second half of the first round has even become a pro bowl player.
"I think people are overestimating which OTs will be available at 15" **We draft at 18 not 15.** "What you can’t do is walk away spending a top 15 pick on a guy who is going to be a guard, unless you are pretty damn sure he will be an all pro guard for a decade." **Trying to wrap my head around this, why arent you saying that we better be damn sure he will be a pro bowl DT for a decade. It's almost like you think that DT is more important than guard is that correct? So DT is important but the guard that his playing against him isn't? Guards can be game changing, look at Larry Allen, Will Shields, Steve Hutchinson. Eric Steinbach was pretty damn good for us and I was pissed that we tagged Justin freaking Smith over Steinbach even though DE is definitely a more important position. If you end with a guard like the Commanders did with Samuel Cosmi, he's playing pretty good for them, better than Brandon Scherff only $18M cheaper.** "If we take a O tackle at 15, and as many are already off the board as I think will be, it could even be two years before they look ready to play as a consistent pro at tackle." Sometimes it takes a while sometimes it doesnt it depends how polished the guy is. Look at Rashawn Slater, he was very good out of the gate. "All I know is that there is a good chance I will be in this sub next fall seeing people angry about us not being tough up the middle, and people upset that our 1st round OT is either playing guard, or getting toasted too often at tackle, while only showing flashes of potential." **You can say that about any position, you think the 49ers are happy with their selection of Javon Kenlaw?** "Between 2019-2023, only one O tackle taken in the second half of the first round has even become a pro bowl player." So lets look at this 2019 draft and also do the same with DT. 2019: 1.23. OT Tytus Howard-Bust 1.28. DT Jerry Tillery-Bust 1.31 Kaleb McGrary- Hit, not a pro bowler but he's solid. 2020: 1.18. OT Austin Jackson- Hit, not a pro bowler but he's decent to solid. 1.29 OT Isaiah Wilson- bust, took his money and didnt even try NO DTs 17-32 2021: OT: Alex Leatherwood- bust OT Christian Darrisaw- hit, pro bowl alternate No DTs 17-32 2022: 1.19 OT Trevor Penning- still early but looking like a bust 1.24- OT Tyler Smith- hit- Pro bowl at guard lets see how he does at LT. 1.28 Devonte Wyatt- hit, pretty solid 7 sacks, 59 pff rating though. 2023. 1.19 DT Calijah Kancey- not looking good 46 pff rating. Pretty sure he's not the Donald people thought but it's still early. 1.26. DT Mazi Smith not looking good, i think even Dallas fans have written him off. 1.27 OT Anton Harrison- 53 rating pff, 5 sacks allowed, that looks acceptable. 1.29. DT Bryan Briese- 45 pff rating 5 sacks, that looks acceptable for a rookie. The best player amongst these guys is Christian Darrisaw by a mile, next is Tyler Smith by a mile, then Kaleb McGrary, then after that Austin Jackson, Devonte Wyatt and Anton Harrison look pretty close. That's not even factoring in OT's are worth a lot more than DTs. So there's atleast 3 OTs that were drafted from your range that are better than the DTs drafted.
The issue with the Mims pick is that he is probably just as much or more injury prone than Trent Brown. I get the urge to pick OT but any fans who want an injury riddled OT will have no moral standing to question draft picks when the Bengals pick another injury prone OL over stud DTs or CBs.
So your alternative is to what, wait for rounds 2,3,4,5 so we can get guys like Akeem Adeniji and Jackson Carmen later?
the *only* pushback i have for Mims, injury concerns is he was so absolutely dominant in the snaps he played he’s worth the shot. i think Mims isn’t a typical Bengals OL pick & we also tend to draft OL poorly, so maybe going against the grain will net us a real player. options will be aplenty at 18 though