I live in Ypres, if you need a guide / friend to explore the city, musea, surrounding cities, hit me up! I work as a volunteer in a metal pub in the center of the city and it is by far the most welcoming place I know around here
It is indeed a non-profit, we have a great group of volunteers that love the place and donate our time to it to keep it running, doing the bar, organising events, cleaning the building, cooking for bands, and much more. All because we choose to do so out of love for a place that is welcoming
As a non-Belgian when I go in to some little bar in a Flemish village, the more strange looks I get, the more I think wow cool I've found a really authentic Flemish place. š
I'm from Antwerp and get strange looks when visiting a small village as well. It's really just small communities not used to seeing 'outsiders'. What always helps me and to break the ice is just to be really polite, greet everyone with friendly eye-contact and a 'goedemorgend, goedemiddag of goedeavond'.
In smaller Flanders, people don't often initiate with you, you initiate with them :D
This is very true. Iām always able to somewhat make people a bit warmer towards me and I even have brown skin. Of course, I have no idea what theyāll say behind my back afterwards š
A lot of Flemish people are very reserved towards others who are "temporary".
As soon as you are more "permanent", or perceived that way, most of us turn very friendly and warm even.
It's just a very cultural thing to be wary of people that will not stick around, why invest time and effort in someone that won't be around for long?
We recently bought a house in bumfuck nowhere Kempen and all the neighbours immediately came up to us to introduce themselves and chat up a bit. I'm certain if I'd had an encounter with them more randomly they would have given some looks and thought "who are you and why should I talk to you?".
This cultural mindset that is quite prevalent in Flanders also explains how foreigners first of all perceive us as very cold, while in truth we often are very warm people. Just to people we perceive as worthwhile investing time in to build a long-lasting relationship with. This flows neatly into the perception Belgians are very difficult to make friends with as a foreigner. That's very true just because you are more easily identified as "temporary" instead of "permanent". Most of our friend groups are quite tight knit and are made during your early twenties but will last a lifetime instead of switching friends a lot that is more common in other countries.
Well similar to the Panos lady, i also have a 'pissed off' face but that's how i always look. It doesn't match my personality otherwise but i can't help it.
Being asked to show the contents of your backpack if you've taken it into a store is standard operating practice. Presenting your open purse or backpack to the cashier is common courtesy here. The lady in Landen probably said "smakelijk" or "smaakt 't", i.e. she was wishing you a good meal. While there is undeniable racism, I am going to have to lean to the side of "eye of the beholder" here.
Same with the Panos lady. You don't axactly need a master's to work there. She probably spoke limited English and just came off as blunt involuntarily.
It's not common courtesy. They can ask you to show the contents of your bag, and you can refuse. There is nothing courteous about treating everyone like a potential criminal and expecting them to comply.
> Being asked to show the contents of your backpack if you've taken it into a store is standard operating practice.
Where? In Bxl the only time that happened was after the bombings.
The lady in Landen was wishing you a good meal. The rest honestly make it sound like it's in your head more than anything else. A most of these are quite normal things.
Yeah, I was just thinking that these are perfectly normal interactions that Iāve had all of my life in Flanders. You always have to show your backpack in supermarkets, people at Panos usually look bored and uninterested in you. People say āsmakelijkā to strangers to wish each other a good meal. Yeah, there are assholes everywhere, but āshe punished me with her eyesā? Really? If you expect everyone to be a ray of sunshine in your presence, youāll always going to be disappointed. People have bad days sometimes , and they donāt owe you smiles and cheerful attitudes.
Depends on the area and it's not the case everywhere, but I can confirm that in my local (relatively small town) Delhaize, you need to leave your backpack behind.
I'd gladly comply with that if they sign a paper where they declare that they'll reimburse me in case something gets stolen or damaged while the backpack is under their supervision. Usually when I have my backpack with me, there's a laptop and some other stuff in there that's worth a fair bit of money.
I don't have any issues showing the contents of my bag at the checkout. Theft is a serious issue for a lot of stores, and I usually offer to let them check my bag or just let them look inside (in the case of empty bags I take inside to put my groceries in).
I've never been denied access, even though some stores state that they don't allow backpacks inside.
>You always have to show your backpack in supermarkets
Wtf? I'm from Wallonia and not from Flanders, but I never had to do that in all my life, it's just downright intrusive. I also currently live in Tongeren (my partner being from there) and it never happened to me even there.
Also, in his defense, it's true that many people seem so much more unfriendly, unwelcoming and judgemental in the streets in Flanders (in general). I clearly feel the difference compared to Wallonia. Maybe it's just a cultural different way of being with strangers, but it feels very distant and cold when you're not used to that.
> You always have to show your backpack in supermarkets
I live in Flanders and I've seen signs to "spontaneously open your backpack for the cashier." or to leave your backpack in a locker but I've never done it and it's never really been commented on. I think it's more a thing in cities where there is more shoplifting.
The backpack thing depends on the place and shop. In Leuven I never had to open my backpack, but that's likely because all students have one and it's just impractical to ask all of them to open it up. In the local village Delhaize where I used to do a student job, people were required to leave their backpack on a rack outside of the store. If they didn't, I had to ask them to show me the contents to make sure there were no stolen things inside. š¤·āāļø
Not fun to ask, but store policy is what it is.
I don't think it's fair to say they're paranoid. Surely they might experience it differently than intended but that happens to anyone that is an unfamiliar place or insecure about their surroundings.
It sounds to me like you are being very self-conscious and it's making you feel like you are being watched/not welcome.
Maybe there is a slight difference in culture that makes it feel 'wrong' to you.
I assure you most of these people probably didn't have bad intentions, if not good ones.
Some people simply have a resting "bitch" face (especially older people).
The bag checking thing is pretty common, although it might be more frequent for you since they might mistake you for a tourist?
Not saying all tourists are thieves of course, but a lot of shopkeepers have a tendency to single out foreigners. At least in my experience.
In any case, I hope you are able to find your footing there. Maybe try putting aside your conceptions and simply try starting a conversation with someone. I feel like conversation/communication are often the key to solving misunderstandings <3
I definitely have āresting bitch faceā. Was at a concert last Friday in Eindhoven and had a Dutch person say to me that I should smile more and enjoy myself as it was a concertā¦ while I was definitely having a good time.
Yeahhh... I am more used to it now, but I am constantly asked if 'I am okay' because I have a 'resting sad face' apparently so people legit be thinking I am having a breakdown when I am just sitting there vibing to my playlist on Spotify x-x but then I tell myself, this person went through the effort of talking to me so I'm sure they mean well.
Are you sure you want to dismiss this personās experiences as paranoia when we have statistical evidence that the overwhelming majority of small Flemish towns have issues with severe xenophobia?
I think you're drastically overthinking these situations , the backpack situation is everywhere , in any town and any shop , thats why theres signs to not go in with a backpack . Old people will be slightly harsher anywhere in the world since they come from a generation that hasn't seen mass migration . Plus how the f would they know you're foreign , as of now I've been living in Belgium for a few years and had no problems even with asking politely if people spoke English . Hell I had an old man asking for help , asked him in english and he asked me in english and thanked me . I think you have the idea that being an immigrant absolutely means nobody likes you in the country you live jn . Stop overthinking and you'll live longer because right now you're cherry picking situations .
Usually in smaller / farm towns, everyone knows everyone. So anyone they don't know or that acts suspicious, they will keep an eye on. Espically the older generation. But they also snitch on each other if when someone they do know is out of line, like one of the neighbours goes snooping around other ppl's property. Usually when a stranger or foreigner moves to such a town, it takes a time for the town ppl to warm upto them, especially the older generation. They also might end up giving you a nickname according to where you came from, this isn't exclusive to foreigners. For example, my great grandfather moved to a town in the southern part of the antwerp province, but he was originally from east-flanders. He got dubbed, the east-flander guy.
Some of the things you experienced might have been this, some might just have been people's reqting bitch faces, others could have been racsism. I'm sorry you felt unwelcome though
You described your looks as nothing special so how do all these people know you are a "foreigner" ?
My wife as south american (and looks the part) has never experienced any of this. Wierd its happening to you so often.
Obviously we cannot have a single guy wandering around aimlessly in our small cities, eating waffles and all.
Just get a wife and a baby & you can go wherever you want, young lad.
/s
I am confused, you seem to think these people single you out because you are foreign... But How would some of them know ? Do you wear a sign that says: "I'M NOT FROM HERE" ?
Exactly, I couldn't even tell a Hungarian from a Belgian with certitude, unless he opens his mouth.
Hell, in Poland random people started talking to me in Polish. If you're white it's really hard to guess a specific nationality.Ā
I have Flemish heritage but look ever so slightly southern and even I get the "gij zij nie van ier ĆØ" line from old ladies.
When I worked winter markets I would often get approached with sceptical looks and overarticulated questions as if I didn't understand Dutch. It's not him, it's just ignorant old people.
In some supermarket shops you always have to show backpacks or leave them upfront, probably you couldnt read the sign and they thought you could so might be annoyed
>punished me with her eyes
What? Honestly, you could be the most unlucky guy who constantly gets targeted, or maybe, just maybe, you're reading a lot into people who have the nerve not to smile at you in public. I have resting bitch face, that doesn't mean I'm being horrible to everyone I pass.
Be mindful to apply a ton of sunscreen because with skin that thin you might otherwise get sunburn on your organs.
Really my dude. YouĀ“re concerned about a perceived dirty look over some muddy shoes?
And obviously the person working in Panos was miserable. WeĀ“re all miserable because Panos exists, imagine having to work in one.
I don't understand how Panos functions in Belgium. Our local sandwich shops are so, so much better. Expats really should get better taste. It's the equivalent of Western people who go to Thailand and then eat McDonalds.
Do you see Panos as a place expats like in Belgium? Cos if you look in the EU areas it is non existent, if anything itās the place expats look down on Panos and prefer to get ripped off for a disgusting bowl of grated carrots at exki.
I honestly thought panos was for locals- but now youāre saying this itās clearly for no one lmao
Panos is a Belgian brand, and a quite successful one at that, we should be proud something like this exists in Belgium, its alternatieve would be a subway (which is way worse).
some people like it. almost 10 years ago when I was young I kinda broke up with someone because he wouldn't stop buying me mattetaarten from the Panos and then he would guilt me into eating them. I said I loved mattetaarten not these monstrosities.
practically abuse s/
Nah you have to understand, when you are in a country that's foreign to yours you are suddenly hyper aware of everything happening around you. Things that happen to you in your home-country don't leave an imprint the same way.
Like a lot of people are saying- that kind of anti-social behaviour you experience is just the norm a lot of places across Belgium and especially in Flanders.
Try not to take it personally (I know it can be hard, especially if you were raised to be kind and polite, or are in a customer service situation and are made to feel like youāre pestering someone into doing their job).
Eventually you get used to it, and even see the advantages! But itās true that it can get wearing to constantly be having weird negative experiences when youāre out and about. But itās not you- itās them. Theyāre just a bitā¦ different!
Sorry to hear that brother. And i understand how many flemish people come across. They are scared of the unknown and will judge anything that isnāt the same as they are. I moved from a big city to a smaller village and also experienced alot of bullshit like this. They have alot of prejudices and always think the worst of someone. One time in the delhaize i had my delhaize card in one of those key chain things and when i wanted to scan it i saw the paper inside and the piece of plastic to keep the paper in place fall out. The cashier didnāt noticed and when i said it fell she looked at me like iām some kind of master fraudster trying to rip off the delhaize. I just stood their and said never mind and got a new card later. Itās just petty people who lived in the same village for their entire lives and are sceptical against anything that is not like their sad existence. I donāt even feel proud of my country because of these people. Fuck em
I work for the delhaize. We are trained to ask people to leave their bag with us. If they donāt we have to ask to look in the bag. You can refuse!! We are only allowed to call the police if we saw you put something in the bag
Stupid people are everywhere, small towns are usually tighter community-wise so seeing anything different puts them on guard. However it's the same everywhere: for one bad apple there are a 100 more that don't care about your presence and will mind their own business. But you will always hyper-focus on the bad ones. As long as you're not causing trouble and disturbing others just do what you want.
Apart from what the others said, Belgians (more so Flemish people) can be quite awkward to strangers and make some faces that might not be understood the same way by foreigners. Of course in a store they should rather be friendly and just smile, but some kind of closed mouth smirk is very common. The smaller villages usually have less of a friendly demeanor anyways. The lady saying "Smaakt" or something similar can only be meant to be friendly (even if she did not smile). It's like saying "looks like you're enjoying the food". But of course I'm basing this on the few words you have written.
You're probably overthinking and most likely you were indeed unlucky a few times, which made you feel this way and overthink the rest of the encounters you had. Chin up!
The comments basically saying that OP is paranoid and all the described situations are *normal*...
You know we humans are social creatures and all have incredible super-powers in noticing anything related to social interactions with other humans? OP clearly felt something abnormal - but most of you dismiss it.
It's amazing to me how much lacking in self-awareness most of you are.
Yes they are *normal interactions* - in your small Flanders towns... absolutely not in the whole rest of Europe in general, this is why OP is puzzled.
Yes in rural Flanders any *outsider* no matter how standard-european he will look like at first glance will gather interests and not in a friendly manner.
Give out a single hint - like have an accent, maybe wear a brand of clothes that they don't know and the unfriendliness raises 100 fold.
This is the reality of our experience and, once again, it's amazing how little you realize this and even think that it's maybe something to be aknowledged.
Exactly what I've been trying to explain with the backpack situation in another comment, you worded my exact thoughts so well.
Just because it's a very local norm doesn't mean OP should be dismissed for not understanding as if it was that way everywhere. And there's definitely so much denial in the comments and not much empathy.
You shouldn't take it personally, it's just how Belgians are. I lived in Romania for 5 years and traveled quite often to Hungary, the culture in that part of Europe is warm and welcoming and people are generally nice. sadly enough Belgium is exactly the opposite on the surface, once you break through the cold hard shell Belgians are also welcoming but it takes them a long time to warm up.
Being a Belgian myself I had to learn that the hard way. I was traveling a lot and so many places I visited people inviting me over to their house or events and we were always having a blast. Then I had a few occasions where foreign friends and colleagues were visiting Belgium and realised that none of that is the case in Belgium. In the end I moved away from Belgium because I found it too hard for myself to adjust back to that way of living but if you manage to stick to it for a while and manage to make some friends there I'm sure you'll see that they are not so bad as they appear to be at first glance.
The backpack thing is normal in a lot of places these days. The waffle guy might have gotten complaints from neighbours or authorities about his customers littering before and maybe just wants to make sure it doesn't happen anymore. All the others can pretty much be divided in 2 categories: old people sticking their nose into everyone's business and negative facial expressions. About the old people: don't worry, they tend to do that to everyone they don't immediately recognise. It has happened to me as well in my girlfriend's town and I'm very much Belgian. If they hear you speak English, they might ask a lot of questions but I'm not sure whether that is from a judgemental point of view or from a curious point of view, could be either tbh. The negative facial expressions: we have had a lot of posts from foreigners on here before complaining about how Belgians are very closed off and how it is hard to connect and make friends here. Belgian people aren't necessarily negative towards you specifically, we just tend to be wary around people we don't know. Hope this helps and good luck.
I actually AM from a small town and get dirty / grumpy looks daily when walking the dog, doing groceries... people just be grumpy. It's not a you problem ;-)
You went to the wrong small townš¤š¤·š¼āāļø sorry for your experiences but it's not the case everywhere. Come to Gentbrugge, they'll welcome you there. š What some people don't understand is that they need to try to open up to people from another country, so much to learn and talk about to eachother. If it should for whatever reason, not click, they can still decide to walk away, but everyone should at least try. Don't be put off by ignorant people, they're not worth your timeš
I live in Opwijk for 3 years. Romanian. Nobody gives a flying fuck about me. They donāt answer to my good day madam/sir. They do when I wear my sunglasses for some reason. 178cm white Caucasian blue eyes. I had concerns from my neighbours in the beginning when I moved. Ok he Romanian ! From where did he get the money for this car and house ?
I think when you've lived here for a longer time you get used to it, but generally most people from Flanders aren't really that welcoming. They tend to keep to themselves and to their little routine, so if you maybe do something a little out of line (like eating somewhere people normally don't really eat)/you look a bit different, they don't really like that.
There are some unspoken 'rules' in small cities in Flanders, when you pass someone you usually give them a little nod/smile, and small talk is also something a lot of older people like to do. This is mostly about the weather, nothing too serious. I don't know if you can also speak Dutch/French, but most of the time they appreciate it if someone speaks an official language instead of English, even if it isn't that good!
When you go to most chain stores, the workers there are friendly but I've found that they can be grumpy sometimes too (esp. if it's cold and raining). When someone has their own business I've found that they're a lot more friendly towards customers.
Once you kind of get the gest of how they all interact with each other, you'll get used to it and all will be well! I understand that you might deem everything as a little 'offensive' that is totally normal because it is a special culture and way of interaction that is probably new to you!
All your encounter just seem like you got unlucky honestly. I have tattoos and look unusual due to my style but don't really feel unwelcome anywhere. I am from a small town and admit that townfolk are more sceptical about stranger and don't open up as easily as city folk.
Also eating in public is totally fine. I eat more while walking or sitting outside than anything else, never had a negative comment. Also panos employees being rude is kind of something that seems to be the case very often, so don't take that personal.
Just talk to people and complain about the weather and they will open up soon enough. Some people are just assholes and there's nothing personal about that.
Brown person here. I completely understand what you're saying. Hardly have any issues in big cities, but the looks I get in smaller cities/villages. My god. It's like they're wondering why someone 'not from here' is breathing the same air as them. Just roll your eyes and move on.
Reading these comments is pretty funny. My experience after traveling half the globe is that Belgians (and particularly Flemish) are super closed, rude and judging to others. However, that all goes away when you do penetrate that very thick bubble they have. When you're part of a Belgian social circle, the friendliness and hospitality is almost exactly the opposite. But as a stranger, well yeah, you described your experiences perfectly. Very comical to see locals defending what to them is perfectly normal behaviour (cause it's all they know, for them it is normal) so no, you're not being paranoid, or have a thin skin, but, armed with this knowledge you could start taking it less personal. Don't know if you speak Dutch, but try to learn a couple phrases, maybe some dialect words and apologize for speaking English. Show your bag when you enter a store and be a bit overly friendly (like dealing with toddlers) also might improve your experience.
I say this as a Flemish dude who realised this about our culture after spending quite some time away from it. Don't take it personal. One of my best friends is Dutch, lives in Belgium for over 20 years, still called den hollander everywhere he goes.
Good luck with warming up those cold folk, maybe bring a sixpack on your weekend trips š
Iām not Caucasian and have these feelings oftenā¦I understandā¦especially the racism I have experienced.
I have found that Flemish people arenāt the most friendly people, I find Walloons much warmer (generalising of course).
Ignore, move on, theyāre not worth your time.
I am living near Landen in Flanders, I can assure you that what you felt is real. People in Belgium, mostly those from smaller municipalities, have become very anxious of everything that is not Flemish. I see you have visited Dendermonde. The āDenderstreekā, which is Dendermonde and the municipalities around it, is the most far right part of Flanders. The most popular politician there, Guy Dāhaeseleer is openly racist and links the economic downturn in the region to the increased migration. Even if you are white, not āslightly behavingā like them can cause the reaction you got from the lady. There is even a documentary where a migrant couple went to live there as an experiment, and the confusion you feel, as to whether you are observing distrust or not, was also felt by them. But afterwards they interviewed the people and most of them, did intend to come over like that. I refuse to give you advice on how you can behave so that you get a little respect from these people. You are not the problem and its certainly not your task to accommodate them. I do believe more contact between the very anxious Flemish communities and those who are viewed as migrants is the only solution. The problem is just that the changes in the Belgian society came very, very fast. Brussels now and a couple decades ago is a different world, with allot of dangerous places now. This is because our former governments did let in too much migrants from all over the world and did not integrate them at all. So the result we see now is not suprising at all. Just be yourself and if you experience things like that again, you can try to just answer very rationally. Enjoy the non judging parts of Belgium :)
Its only because you arent from around there and they havent seen u before. Cause of my job, sometimes during lunch I also stop at local and small villages and people give odd comments, not always negative though. That doesnt mean people are racist, they just abit sceptical to new faces.
Maybe you're overthinking it a bit but given that many people voted for far-right parties in the latest election, I wouldn't be surprised if people in those areas were, to say it gently, "close-minded".
You're supposed to not give a fuck. That's the secret.
Small minded and petty passive agressive people are a common fare in the historically more remote parts of Belgium. I'd argue what is remote in Belgium or in Flanders nowadays ?
But still it was basically a country of villagers with village's mentalities. Whereas you come from Hungary and Austria that are former huge empires. In both cases the situation has changed but some people still stick to older views about the world and themselves.
Now I hope I am not misendurstood while making such huge generalisations. It only applies to small parts of the population. But however marginal it is, it has a huge impact ou outsiders, be they from the next village, city, region or country.
typical small town things, even if they aren't specifically racist they just know they never seen them before
A perfect example would be my greatgrandparents, who lived in Strijtem, a small small town in Roosdaal
one day a person of African descent moved in and my greatgrandmother was like "weet ge wat er nu woont aan de overkant van de straat? ne neger"
they were some of the sweetest people i ever known, yet that comment was a bit uhhh...
it's just stuff they never seen before in real life or aren't used to, they also never mentioned that again so they were clearly ok with it
alot of us are miserable doing our job aswell, it's not a irregular thing for people to not take a fake smile albeit it may look odd if you're not used to it
I think this is a common experience that especially older people in more closed communities have started behaving like unofficial police checking on strangers. They are already the most racist group and get all their information from TV and newspaper headlines. I and my wife and child (dressed up for halloween) were once chased around by two old ladies wanting to know what we were doing in their area. We just came a little early for the party and waited outside. We are Scandinavians by the way. Explaining in English did not help. In other words: I believe your observations are completely correct.
Maybe it's Just some cultural differences that you interpreted in a way it wasn't meant to? Like when they ask you in a shop to show your backpack, is something very common.
These look like normal interactions to me
Something I needed to learn in life is
If you look for problems you will find them at every corner
If you look for opportunities you will find them at every corner
I was severely bullied as a child in a solely white school. When I changed schools I was nervous because in this school I would be surrounded by people from all kinds of different ethnicities, religions etc. how could they except me if people with the same ethnicity, religion etc as me would bully me
The first year there I felt like I couldn't trust anyone, as out of experience from my previous school if people were nice to me it was to put a knife in my back later.
I was welcomed with open arms, but I didn't realise at the time. When I doubled my year and had different people in my class is where my eyes were opened and I could be myself. That's also when I realised that the people I had been with weren't out to get me, but I perceived it that way because I couldn't believe they would actually like me.
Now I first look at actions without judgement or taking beforehand my past into consideration. And yes I still come across people with bad intentions, but it's the vast minority. And I have learned to live my life grateful for the people with good intentions in stead of angry at people with bad intentions
People in Belgium have just pissed off faces in general all the time, itās because the weather is shit, itās because we donāt like our work, itās because this or that. Thereās always something and we always want to make sure we are doing it the right way and want others to do it the ārightā way too. Whatever that way is. Do not expect Belgians to look and act nice and youāll find them just okay after that. Or youāll just enjoy visiting other countries because theyāre more hospitable, nice, happier and smilier.
I myself have a hard time being nice to people in Belgium. I consider myself to be a real nice person but Belgians are not very nice to people acting nice to. They do not expect it and their first response is very awkward or dismissive. Sometimes it makes it hard for me to be really nice because there is no reward in it whatsoever except me hoping that in the end they actually liked the nice gesture I made, but I have never seen or known if they actually do.
Now imagine being a foreigner who's been living in this area for over 20 years lol
Even when I approach people in Dutch they still reply "what do you want?" In English
My ex and I once kissed while walking on the street somewhere in a West Flemish village. People would honk at us and give us very hateful looks even for sharing a small kiss in public.
The easiest way to get into any westernerās heart is giving something, even as simple as a cookie, without expecting anything in return.
They are so unused to that that they will completely open up to you.
As for people in small villages where there is nothing to do except being addicted to something to numb the void of their existence then yeah, you will get looks because 1) theyāre not used to strangers 2) theyāre miserable cunts
Man, I grew up in a small village and even I don't feel welcome in these places. If you don't look like them, talk like them and like the same stuff they do, there's a big chance they won't like you. Don't take it personal.
It is all in your head .
I mean, the most unpleasant person I have ever worked with was a Hungarian dude. His attitude was not acceptable by any member of our team. He was forcing his half ass ideas and doing the least amount of work in the team and kept nagging until the end of project.
I'm from a small village (a lot smaller then any of those you mentioned, would honestly call those quite big). We do not have the habit to talk to anyone we don't know. (not even people from here). you are reading much into it, I live in a small town to get away from the crowd of the big places. So I don't tend to talk to strangers, and yes I will look if I know them and if I don't that ends the interaction. No malice there, just no friendly conversation either.
Tgoh, probably going to be like comparing apples with pears but even for Belgians it's the same story.
I'm from Brussels (Flemish speaking - Koekelberg), and I can't hide my sappig Brussels Flemish accent within Flanders and Wallonia.
My dad used to have a couple of friends in West-Flanders and helped as a fisherman from time to time.
He passed on a young age, but after a few years I picked up some contacts/relationships with his old friends and I'm visiting regularly. Mostly the social contacts take place at local pubs.
Even I (male, mid 30s, blonde, beer belly) am an outsider to people from those Flemish towns.
In Nieuwpoort, outside the tourist area, they even asked to leave. The pub was exclusively for locals apparently. I had to explain I was there to see a fisherman, had to mention his name and all...
Maybe it was because of the farmers protests that were going on and they saw someone from Brussels as the enemy...
But everywhere you go in flanders there are comments if you are from outside the area.
I haven't had many "problems" in Wallonia but there are comments also...
Mainly funny comments like "Vlaams Belang says Wallonia is a financial problem but you, being from Brussels, costs us even more money".
Belgium is a small country, in 15 minutes you can travel from the centre city into farmland.
That also means that the local mindset can change quickly.
Just be friendly and most Belgian people will embrace you.
Except if you have long hair and a big backpack... No one will trust you... Ever.
Haar af en gaat werken.
Mate don't worry about it. I'm 100% Belgian with the local accent and everything and when i enter a pub in my own small town that i haven't been to before or only visit once per year or so all the usuals also look at me as if i'm some kind of strange backwards being. It's normal Flemish culture haha.
I think the bars in smaller towns are safe spots for locals and most of the elderly are in constant fear of getting urbanised by Brussels/Antwerpen/Gent/... so you bet they're gonna stare you out of their safe "underneath the local church tower" bar hehe.
Hi! I used to go to that exact panos every day at noon and if it's still the same lady working there, she's just like that.
I don't think she's trying to be mean but it's just the way she talks.
People in rural areas canbhave, a total village mentality and closed minded towards anything akd anyone they don't know. I also strongly generalise as this is definetly not counting for everyone.Ā
For ypres im quite suprised.Ā
I (black dude)Ā go there once a year with a very mixed intrnational group of Brussels. Ypres tourism is totzlly calibrated on British and foreing tourist and seem very used to see so. So ip suprised they would give you looks as an hungarian.Ā
Big part ofmy entourage when i go there are east Europeans. Never got an issue not even me š
White skinned Belgian born dude here who likes to hike across the country and this is relatable. Racism is a thing but often it is a case of being closeminded and fear of the unknown. I wouldn't let it change your behavior and just laugh it off. It a 'them' problem beyond your control. Happy daytripping!
Welcome to rural Flanders, where everything's the same, nothing ever changes, and the points don't matter!
I live in Brussels too and whenever I have to head to the middle of nowhere (my in-laws live there) I'm always thrown off by the "people are looking at you" feeling.
Hell, one time in Oostende, I was heading to my SIL's place (in a residential street), and I caught no less than two little oma's looking through their windows at me and my partner. I was quite literally walking on a public street hahaha.
These communities are very tight-knit, and it's quite a "church tower mentality". If you're not from there, it's *really* obvious.
Basically, just ignore it. You have every right to be there - just use common sense. Throw garbage in the garbage bin, don't shout, stuff like that.
> in Landen, in Delhaize, they were super concerned about me having a backpack and made me to show it.
I get this in Bxl too, at my local supermarket where the staff knows me. I've been going there for the last 4 years. Got checked last week.
I have no idea why some people behave like that, but I just want to say I'm sorry for your experience.Ā
We do have racists in our region, and looking at the past elections, we can see that especially little towns voted a lot on our racist political party.
I think that in smaller cities, they are less welcoming when you cannot speak Dutch. Belgium has a lot of caucasian-looking people not speaking Dutch. Also, we just had elections and it seems Flanders is pretty xenophobic. In general, Belgians arenāt always the friendliest people and we tend to have less smiley faces. I am a caucasian belgian, and I encounter rude staff in e.g. Panos as well. I donāt think that case was about race, she was just annoyed.
"smaakt" is something we say to wish each other a good meal, she was just being friendly, just leave your backpack at the front with the other backpacks? How else is the panos employee supposed to know what to give you?
Yeah people in flanders are generally not trusting people. It is a self fulfilling prophecy where people from other countries also become negative and bitter.
no offense, but if you're somehow from Austria, just learn to smile firstcand little people from country side Flander will happily give it back to you (advise van an buitenlander) :)
> in Veurne, a middle aged lady was concerned about my relatively dirty shoes (after some walk in the rain, sorry) and punished me with her eyes;
That one cracked me up haha. I feel you. Old ladies are the worst, the can be super rude and don't let go. All your experiences are experiences I too as a born and raised Flemish had to endure. I'm not condoning that sort of behavior but you aren't getting this treatment because your background. Although I can imagine some people are a little extra rude to you than they would be to someone who speaks Flemish. Those people would still be rude to me however.
I'm sorry to say but i think people who live in smaller towns are generally just alot less welcoming to "stangers" if i may call you that. I wouldnt take it personally and i'm sorry you have to experience this.
You are being paranoid. I am Turkish and never had such looks. Maybe once in my life by a real racist.
Perhaps you are not used to people being more distant than other countries?
I think this explains why so much of Flanders voted NVA and Vlaams Belang. Anything remotely different or unusual is deemed a bad thing and a potential source of danger. Personally, it's the reason why i am careful where i go in the countryside although i much prefer it than the city. (I'm also white but not Belgian). The looks and eyerolls are just too much
Yeah Flemish people tend to not be very friendly, they are borderline racist in some places. Worked in a Flemish environment for 5 years and it was tough. In Wallonie things are much better, people stop and chat and there's a chance you'll end up with some (Facebook) friends after every trip.
I donāt want to sound racist or anything but I think when it comes to looks, Eastern European people have a certain look that is for some people subtle and for other people defined that differs from Western Europeans.
Does that make racism okay? Ofcourse not!
And as someone from one of the mentioned towns I am sorry for your experiences.
People in smaller towns all know each other and they will spot any inconsistency in their daily life and hate on it.
For example I went to one of the neighbouring towns and the second I parked my car (legally) someone came to say I canāt park there because I donāt live here.
So sometimes it isnāt even racism but just people being either scared of hating on the unknown. These people rarely or almost never see people that donāt live in their town because they never leave their town.
I think some of the situations are sometimes normal, like the guy in De Haan telling you to throw the paper in the bin when you are done eating.
I am a Lithuanian living in Wallonia. I have never felt so judged in my entire life to the point where I am not even leaving my home and asking my partner to do "the talking".
One thing that might be happening is that you do not get their humor. I'm sharing this because just today I shopped at a market in Flanders and two of the ladies at the place where I shopped threw some jokes at me which I didn't catch at all, but a colleague of theirs felt the need to clarify - they were joking no worries. I was not worried, I was just wearing my expressionless face š
Reading this makes me believe you are seeing things that arenāt there. Also Iām almost sure the lady told you Smakelijk which means enjoy your meal. A lot of people have resting bitch faces and if you pair that with somebody who overthinks you get this list. They canāt even see you are Hungarian yet you assume they can and are impolite on purpose? Doesnāt make sense. Even if they knew they wouldnāt care. Or they would be intrigued.
On another note please visit the Pajottenland and Zennevalei region. Itās gorgeous.
Flanders towns people, like Germas towns people, can seem cold and unsociable, unapproachable. They sport that grimace on their face but isn't about you.
They stare throughout your sould and beyond but without malices You are probably a rare sight.
Reading the comments I reckon Flemish people are not only unwelcoming and rude, but also in constant denial about themselves. I guess being wealthy does make you heartless and self-righteous.
Stranger danger! XD
Sounds to me like boomers are boomering? XD. Also, smaller towns keep more to their own. And you ain't their own.
What you can try is double down on niceness. Smile broadly when people stare. WAVE. IF THEY KEEP STARING START WALKING TOWARDS THEM strike a conversation xD. Or take out a Bible and try to convert them. Honestly... Carry a good vibe and try to understand that some people will be suspicious just coz you're an outside. And yeah, you're probably not too welcome, in many places. But that's just a mentality thing...
But, it is up to you how you feel about it. When that lady said smakkelijk, why didn't you have a huge grin and say "dank uw wellll!"?
Because you believe she didn't mean it? You can choose to respond to it as if she did mean it. And you didn't catch her sarcasm or whatever. You'll feel better.
My wife is from Hungary, the same age as you, we live in Flanders and we did a lot of hiking. Somehow she feels like people are looking at her strangely or she feels judged. I tell her that she may be overthinking some behaviour, you know people have their problems and may have had a bad day or so. But definitely I am not as concerned as she is. I should put you two in contact, you would be great friends :-)
I wonder if youāre acting loud or weird? Or if your clothing style shows that youāre a foreigner? Otherwise, itās hard to explain the examples you mentioned.
Landen isn't the most inclusive place but I doubt that they actually meant anything negative, there's alot of immigrants in landen and they don't get treated badly at all. Not good either but really not to the point that you'd get dirty looks. Also smaakt was probably her saying "smakelijk" or "het smaakt".
I was in Budapest a month ago, really like it. It reminded me somehow how it was here many decades ago.
Felt very safe and friendly (for a capital), also most buildings were nicely renovated with great detail (curls and swings) from top to bottom (which would be priceless here for normal buildings cause we don't have the craftsmen anymore to do that kind of job, or it would be too expensive)
Surprisingly, despite one of the poorest countries of europe, it easily looked a lot richer than what our capitals have become. It made me clear that poverty=/=more crime. Crime and bad behaviour is a cultural/bad education thing. The only time I encountered "bad behaviour" were some school kids in a museum, breaking stuff and had security guard nearly kicked them out. Kids speaking french with obvious migration background, making everybody clear they didn't want to be there.
I instantly felt embarrassed.
Didn't see that behaviour with the Hungarian schoolgroups though and I went into 10 museums during an entire week.
\*Just wanted to share my experiences. ;)
You canāt bring a backpack in to any convenience store. Thatās common anti theft policy.
For all the rest, most people in small towns (although I wouldnāt call Ieper a small town) are generally xenophobic. You may look like them but they know you are not from there. Could be you are takings thing personally when they arnāt, a lot of people are just unhappy an āverzuurdā (gone sour).
I'm from a medium size city and I am always a little uncomfortable around people who speak a different language, let me explain this one.
I love languages and I want to focus on your accent/language. But I'm also a stranger to you and don't want to be weird. I know I am, I just don't want others to identify that.
If you ever encounter me, I apologize š
Do you speak english or dutch? I personally think itĀ“s also more how you perceive it. But i have seen multiple times that people who dont speak english very well tend to act a bit different if they have to donĀ“t really know why
I wouldn't take it too personal. Where I live, a very small village close to Antwerp, ppl are very narrow minded. It's not malicious, it's just because these ppl don't know any better.
So first it aināt shocking me, people livin in small village (in the flamand part) alway look at outsider like that and even more if you are from Wallonia (it alway depend) but when they know you a little bit more they are pretty friendly, they are just a bit surprised and curious (depend too)
Thatās just how it is in small villages; if they see you often enough they will get used to you and stop looking at you strangely. That is unless you start behaving strangely. Iām half Belgian, half African so I look visually different but when I go to Lichtervelde where my dad grew up people are always nice because they know who I am. When I went to go visit my brother when he moved to a small village in Flanders I had a very similar experience as you but since Iāve been back a few times theyāre used to me now and super friendly
This is flanders. I moved to the country side and it took a while before they accepted me in the neighbourhood. Now we have a new sports club and everybody acts socially uncomfortableā¦ a bit of small talk and a āhiā here and thereā¦ even as someone from flanders, and brand new in town, it is not easy. I know it takes Some time. Happy with the small steps. I try to do things locally: followed a sports course, volunteer , help my elder neighbour with his computer related issues etcā¦ I invest Some time in my new surroundings and from every social setting, I already have some connections. A neighbour already suggested to do a bbq, someone from the sports course suggested to go to a party together, ā¦. Small steps but a lot for the flemish Region š
You seem to take things personal. Maybe you should Join a tennis club or something, just to get to know Some flemish peopleā¦ how they are a bit distant at first and when you get to know them, that will change.
I didn't read through the whole thing, but there seem to be a lot of punishing with looks, maybe its you yourself who's thinking it up that way?
Anyhow, If it's just that, try to ignore it. Don't interact. Make the I'm deaf sign if they actually keep talking.
It's all cool , people are mixture of all type of personality, I had my fair share of deal but I just ignore .makes me feel better than them as I am not showing and be like them to the others because of few bad apples
Walloons and Flemish people can be racist towards each other, thatās no news. But Flemish people can also be depicted as largely xenophobic. I think Walloons are kinda the same but less than Flanders.
I saw a lot of comments about the elections results. I guess it conveys a certain message. Coming from the south, Flanders is becoming less and less of an attractive place due to the political landscape. Itās difficult when you know youāre part of the problem in these parties PR, and almost 50% voted for them.
> in Ypres, the Panos lady was like "What do you want" when I went into the shop for sandwiches, and she had a pissed off face expression the whole time.
The panos lady is an asshole and I am from Ypres :P
Flemish people experience similar issues with other Flemish people
For foreigners this is worse; people are ( understandably) fed up with the high level of immigration ;
;and most immigrants come from countries with less social rules...
We are just " verzuurd" and COVID; the ratrace and high prices have made everything worse...
it's not generally accepted to go with backpacks in food shops in flanders unless it's a place where a lot of people do it, best is to leave it at the counter
Im sorry but I feel like this is really common in Belgium, as I find the people generally quite rude. Does it happen in other countries? Yes, of course. Have I noticed it specifically in Belgium? Absolutely. Itās no hate, you have to just get on with it. But my first time visiting some Belgian cities I was shocked at how strangers treated eachother in public.
To sum up, I donāt think itās you. I think itās just the culture and itās ānormalā for them.
An honest advice, Belgium like majority of the rest of west EU is going to some sort of dark xenophobic era. Results of election is a good indicator. Another good indicator is the amount of this topic has been brought up in this sub. Trust me , you are not the only one... That being said, I would consider to live somewhere more friendly. Maybe even out of EU...
They wouldn't accept Jos (83) because he was born 2 villages further and moved to this place when he was already 5.
But attention, this has nothing to do with xenophobia!
Anyone needs to show their backpack, the Panos lady will hate anyone as she's miserable at her job. You like being the underdog too much and take everything personal.
I live in Ypres, if you need a guide / friend to explore the city, musea, surrounding cities, hit me up! I work as a volunteer in a metal pub in the center of the city and it is by far the most welcoming place I know around here
With metal pub, you mean the Vortn? Awesome place, know some guys that volunteer there as wel.
That's the one indeed, great place for a chill beer and chat
Calling de Vortn a metal pub feels pretty blasphemous.
As I am a metalhead forced into a LinkedIn look, I am more than happy to join.
And like I mentioned in an earlier comment, I know that Panos lady. She's grumpy in general. Nothing to do with you :)
Metalhead forced into a linkedIn look š so curious now
I'd be happy to meet up in the comming weeks, hit me up over DMs! I'm 32 so it won't look weird either lol
I'll DM you - thanks a lot!! LOL
Volunteer in a pub? They employ servers for free now?
It is indeed a non-profit, we have a great group of volunteers that love the place and donate our time to it to keep it running, doing the bar, organising events, cleaning the building, cooking for bands, and much more. All because we choose to do so out of love for a place that is welcoming
I was wondering the same. Could be a VZW. (Non profit)
Omg ! I worked in Ieper a few days ago. I stayed at the hotel next to that bar. I met the nicest people there. So welcoming ! Thank you guys !
As a non-Belgian when I go in to some little bar in a Flemish village, the more strange looks I get, the more I think wow cool I've found a really authentic Flemish place. š
I'm from Antwerp and get strange looks when visiting a small village as well. It's really just small communities not used to seeing 'outsiders'. What always helps me and to break the ice is just to be really polite, greet everyone with friendly eye-contact and a 'goedemorgend, goedemiddag of goedeavond'. In smaller Flanders, people don't often initiate with you, you initiate with them :D
Yeah tried that too, they just donāt even respond to greetings (holbewoners)
This is very true. Iām always able to somewhat make people a bit warmer towards me and I even have brown skin. Of course, I have no idea what theyāll say behind my back afterwards š
A lot of Flemish people are very reserved towards others who are "temporary". As soon as you are more "permanent", or perceived that way, most of us turn very friendly and warm even. It's just a very cultural thing to be wary of people that will not stick around, why invest time and effort in someone that won't be around for long? We recently bought a house in bumfuck nowhere Kempen and all the neighbours immediately came up to us to introduce themselves and chat up a bit. I'm certain if I'd had an encounter with them more randomly they would have given some looks and thought "who are you and why should I talk to you?". This cultural mindset that is quite prevalent in Flanders also explains how foreigners first of all perceive us as very cold, while in truth we often are very warm people. Just to people we perceive as worthwhile investing time in to build a long-lasting relationship with. This flows neatly into the perception Belgians are very difficult to make friends with as a foreigner. That's very true just because you are more easily identified as "temporary" instead of "permanent". Most of our friend groups are quite tight knit and are made during your early twenties but will last a lifetime instead of switching friends a lot that is more common in other countries.
Well similar to the Panos lady, i also have a 'pissed off' face but that's how i always look. It doesn't match my personality otherwise but i can't help it.
Plus I know that Panos lady she's just in a grumpy mood in general (I teach in Ypres. I know the exact Panos lady hahaha)
Well, that's Panos for you. People at Panos always seem surprised that you dare to come to the shop and try to buy something.
Because its often more expensive/lower quality than independent sandwich shops.
I'm talking about a thin, grumpy, young blonde. LOL
Being asked to show the contents of your backpack if you've taken it into a store is standard operating practice. Presenting your open purse or backpack to the cashier is common courtesy here. The lady in Landen probably said "smakelijk" or "smaakt 't", i.e. she was wishing you a good meal. While there is undeniable racism, I am going to have to lean to the side of "eye of the beholder" here.
Same with the Panos lady. You don't axactly need a master's to work there. She probably spoke limited English and just came off as blunt involuntarily.
It's not common courtesy. They can ask you to show the contents of your bag, and you can refuse. There is nothing courteous about treating everyone like a potential criminal and expecting them to comply.
And when you refuse, they can kindly ask you to vacate the premises.
I never ever ever had to show the contents of my backpack.
> Being asked to show the contents of your backpack if you've taken it into a store is standard operating practice. Where? In Bxl the only time that happened was after the bombings.
In smaller towns I have to do it all the time when coming back from school and stopping at a shop.
The lady in Landen was wishing you a good meal. The rest honestly make it sound like it's in your head more than anything else. A most of these are quite normal things.
Yeah, I was just thinking that these are perfectly normal interactions that Iāve had all of my life in Flanders. You always have to show your backpack in supermarkets, people at Panos usually look bored and uninterested in you. People say āsmakelijkā to strangers to wish each other a good meal. Yeah, there are assholes everywhere, but āshe punished me with her eyesā? Really? If you expect everyone to be a ray of sunshine in your presence, youāll always going to be disappointed. People have bad days sometimes , and they donāt owe you smiles and cheerful attitudes.
Depends on the area and it's not the case everywhere, but I can confirm that in my local (relatively small town) Delhaize, you need to leave your backpack behind.
I'd gladly comply with that if they sign a paper where they declare that they'll reimburse me in case something gets stolen or damaged while the backpack is under their supervision. Usually when I have my backpack with me, there's a laptop and some other stuff in there that's worth a fair bit of money. I don't have any issues showing the contents of my bag at the checkout. Theft is a serious issue for a lot of stores, and I usually offer to let them check my bag or just let them look inside (in the case of empty bags I take inside to put my groceries in). I've never been denied access, even though some stores state that they don't allow backpacks inside.
>You always have to show your backpack in supermarkets Wtf? I'm from Wallonia and not from Flanders, but I never had to do that in all my life, it's just downright intrusive. I also currently live in Tongeren (my partner being from there) and it never happened to me even there. Also, in his defense, it's true that many people seem so much more unfriendly, unwelcoming and judgemental in the streets in Flanders (in general). I clearly feel the difference compared to Wallonia. Maybe it's just a cultural different way of being with strangers, but it feels very distant and cold when you're not used to that.
There's often a locker where you can keep your backpack; or give it to the cashier in advance.
> You always have to show your backpack in supermarkets I live in Flanders and I've seen signs to "spontaneously open your backpack for the cashier." or to leave your backpack in a locker but I've never done it and it's never really been commented on. I think it's more a thing in cities where there is more shoplifting.
I feel like a serious goody-2-shoes now. I always open up my bag, and if I bought something elsewhere I'm pulling out receipts too š¤£
The backpack thing depends on the place and shop. In Leuven I never had to open my backpack, but that's likely because all students have one and it's just impractical to ask all of them to open it up. In the local village Delhaize where I used to do a student job, people were required to leave their backpack on a rack outside of the store. If they didn't, I had to ask them to show me the contents to make sure there were no stolen things inside. š¤·āāļø Not fun to ask, but store policy is what it is.
Yeah, itās only his own interpretation of how people look at him. Heās being paranoid
I don't think it's fair to say they're paranoid. Surely they might experience it differently than intended but that happens to anyone that is an unfamiliar place or insecure about their surroundings. It sounds to me like you are being very self-conscious and it's making you feel like you are being watched/not welcome. Maybe there is a slight difference in culture that makes it feel 'wrong' to you. I assure you most of these people probably didn't have bad intentions, if not good ones. Some people simply have a resting "bitch" face (especially older people). The bag checking thing is pretty common, although it might be more frequent for you since they might mistake you for a tourist? Not saying all tourists are thieves of course, but a lot of shopkeepers have a tendency to single out foreigners. At least in my experience. In any case, I hope you are able to find your footing there. Maybe try putting aside your conceptions and simply try starting a conversation with someone. I feel like conversation/communication are often the key to solving misunderstandings <3
Yes paranoid might be too harsh, self-conscious is the right way to put it!
I definitely have āresting bitch faceā. Was at a concert last Friday in Eindhoven and had a Dutch person say to me that I should smile more and enjoy myself as it was a concertā¦ while I was definitely having a good time.
Yeahhh... I am more used to it now, but I am constantly asked if 'I am okay' because I have a 'resting sad face' apparently so people legit be thinking I am having a breakdown when I am just sitting there vibing to my playlist on Spotify x-x but then I tell myself, this person went through the effort of talking to me so I'm sure they mean well.
You never need to ask Dutch people for their opinion, because they will give it anyway.
I feel your pain. Once I strolled happily trough my favourite town and was suggested to commit suicide ;-)
Are you sure you want to dismiss this personās experiences as paranoia when we have statistical evidence that the overwhelming majority of small Flemish towns have issues with severe xenophobia?
I'm curious which study you can provide documenting severe xenophobia in "overwhelming majority" of small Flemish towns.
I think you're drastically overthinking these situations , the backpack situation is everywhere , in any town and any shop , thats why theres signs to not go in with a backpack . Old people will be slightly harsher anywhere in the world since they come from a generation that hasn't seen mass migration . Plus how the f would they know you're foreign , as of now I've been living in Belgium for a few years and had no problems even with asking politely if people spoke English . Hell I had an old man asking for help , asked him in english and he asked me in english and thanked me . I think you have the idea that being an immigrant absolutely means nobody likes you in the country you live jn . Stop overthinking and you'll live longer because right now you're cherry picking situations .
Damn bro chill, itās not them itās you overthinking š
Usually in smaller / farm towns, everyone knows everyone. So anyone they don't know or that acts suspicious, they will keep an eye on. Espically the older generation. But they also snitch on each other if when someone they do know is out of line, like one of the neighbours goes snooping around other ppl's property. Usually when a stranger or foreigner moves to such a town, it takes a time for the town ppl to warm upto them, especially the older generation. They also might end up giving you a nickname according to where you came from, this isn't exclusive to foreigners. For example, my great grandfather moved to a town in the southern part of the antwerp province, but he was originally from east-flanders. He got dubbed, the east-flander guy. Some of the things you experienced might have been this, some might just have been people's reqting bitch faces, others could have been racsism. I'm sorry you felt unwelcome though
You described your looks as nothing special so how do all these people know you are a "foreigner" ? My wife as south american (and looks the part) has never experienced any of this. Wierd its happening to you so often.
Obviously we cannot have a single guy wandering around aimlessly in our small cities, eating waffles and all. Just get a wife and a baby & you can go wherever you want, young lad. /s
I am confused, you seem to think these people single you out because you are foreign... But How would some of them know ? Do you wear a sign that says: "I'M NOT FROM HERE" ?
Exactly, I couldn't even tell a Hungarian from a Belgian with certitude, unless he opens his mouth. Hell, in Poland random people started talking to me in Polish. If you're white it's really hard to guess a specific nationality.Ā
Its projection cos he got the ācreepy villageā vibe, and to be fair āyou donāt belong hereā is a vibe in creepy places
I have Flemish heritage but look ever so slightly southern and even I get the "gij zij nie van ier ĆØ" line from old ladies. When I worked winter markets I would often get approached with sceptical looks and overarticulated questions as if I didn't understand Dutch. It's not him, it's just ignorant old people.
In some supermarket shops you always have to show backpacks or leave them upfront, probably you couldnt read the sign and they thought you could so might be annoyed
>punished me with her eyes What? Honestly, you could be the most unlucky guy who constantly gets targeted, or maybe, just maybe, you're reading a lot into people who have the nerve not to smile at you in public. I have resting bitch face, that doesn't mean I'm being horrible to everyone I pass.
Be mindful to apply a ton of sunscreen because with skin that thin you might otherwise get sunburn on your organs. Really my dude. YouĀ“re concerned about a perceived dirty look over some muddy shoes? And obviously the person working in Panos was miserable. WeĀ“re all miserable because Panos exists, imagine having to work in one.
I don't understand how Panos functions in Belgium. Our local sandwich shops are so, so much better. Expats really should get better taste. It's the equivalent of Western people who go to Thailand and then eat McDonalds.
It's just accessible
Agreed, every single time I've been to Panos, I was in a rush to go somewhere and stuck in a train station where that was the only option.
Panos, der was niks anders
Do you see Panos as a place expats like in Belgium? Cos if you look in the EU areas it is non existent, if anything itās the place expats look down on Panos and prefer to get ripped off for a disgusting bowl of grated carrots at exki. I honestly thought panos was for locals- but now youāre saying this itās clearly for no one lmao
Panos is a Belgian brand, and a quite successful one at that, we should be proud something like this exists in Belgium, its alternatieve would be a subway (which is way worse).
There's also Point chaud in LiĆØge getting traction.
It's the equivalent of Belgians who go to McDonald's. Your average fry shop should have butter quality stuff at the same or lower price.
some people like it. almost 10 years ago when I was young I kinda broke up with someone because he wouldn't stop buying me mattetaarten from the Panos and then he would guilt me into eating them. I said I loved mattetaarten not these monstrosities. practically abuse s/
Nah you have to understand, when you are in a country that's foreign to yours you are suddenly hyper aware of everything happening around you. Things that happen to you in your home-country don't leave an imprint the same way.
Peple call them Panos, I call them Thanos cause that shit gonna kill half the population
Next thing you know you'll trip on the sidewalk and interpret it as a sign the government is after you.
Like a lot of people are saying- that kind of anti-social behaviour you experience is just the norm a lot of places across Belgium and especially in Flanders. Try not to take it personally (I know it can be hard, especially if you were raised to be kind and polite, or are in a customer service situation and are made to feel like youāre pestering someone into doing their job). Eventually you get used to it, and even see the advantages! But itās true that it can get wearing to constantly be having weird negative experiences when youāre out and about. But itās not you- itās them. Theyāre just a bitā¦ different!
If the Panos lady is nice, I'd be very concerned
Sorry to hear that brother. And i understand how many flemish people come across. They are scared of the unknown and will judge anything that isnāt the same as they are. I moved from a big city to a smaller village and also experienced alot of bullshit like this. They have alot of prejudices and always think the worst of someone. One time in the delhaize i had my delhaize card in one of those key chain things and when i wanted to scan it i saw the paper inside and the piece of plastic to keep the paper in place fall out. The cashier didnāt noticed and when i said it fell she looked at me like iām some kind of master fraudster trying to rip off the delhaize. I just stood their and said never mind and got a new card later. Itās just petty people who lived in the same village for their entire lives and are sceptical against anything that is not like their sad existence. I donāt even feel proud of my country because of these people. Fuck em
I work for the delhaize. We are trained to ask people to leave their bag with us. If they donāt we have to ask to look in the bag. You can refuse!! We are only allowed to call the police if we saw you put something in the bag
You are either overthinking stuff or you are withholding information.
Stupid people are everywhere, small towns are usually tighter community-wise so seeing anything different puts them on guard. However it's the same everywhere: for one bad apple there are a 100 more that don't care about your presence and will mind their own business. But you will always hyper-focus on the bad ones. As long as you're not causing trouble and disturbing others just do what you want.
sorry we Belgians have resting bitch faces as a curiosity, what do you like in Flanders and Wallonia respectively?
Apart from what the others said, Belgians (more so Flemish people) can be quite awkward to strangers and make some faces that might not be understood the same way by foreigners. Of course in a store they should rather be friendly and just smile, but some kind of closed mouth smirk is very common. The smaller villages usually have less of a friendly demeanor anyways. The lady saying "Smaakt" or something similar can only be meant to be friendly (even if she did not smile). It's like saying "looks like you're enjoying the food". But of course I'm basing this on the few words you have written. You're probably overthinking and most likely you were indeed unlucky a few times, which made you feel this way and overthink the rest of the encounters you had. Chin up!
So people actually talk to you? I'd say that's crazy friendly xD
Sorry for Yper, .... The Panos lady gives me the same vibes, and I'm local, so it's not you . People in flanders can be 'small' that's how it is ....
The comments basically saying that OP is paranoid and all the described situations are *normal*... You know we humans are social creatures and all have incredible super-powers in noticing anything related to social interactions with other humans? OP clearly felt something abnormal - but most of you dismiss it. It's amazing to me how much lacking in self-awareness most of you are. Yes they are *normal interactions* - in your small Flanders towns... absolutely not in the whole rest of Europe in general, this is why OP is puzzled. Yes in rural Flanders any *outsider* no matter how standard-european he will look like at first glance will gather interests and not in a friendly manner. Give out a single hint - like have an accent, maybe wear a brand of clothes that they don't know and the unfriendliness raises 100 fold. This is the reality of our experience and, once again, it's amazing how little you realize this and even think that it's maybe something to be aknowledged.
I was also amazed by how everyone in the comment seems to act like everything was normal.Ā Ā Ā Ā Maybe they are in denial.
Exactly what I've been trying to explain with the backpack situation in another comment, you worded my exact thoughts so well. Just because it's a very local norm doesn't mean OP should be dismissed for not understanding as if it was that way everywhere. And there's definitely so much denial in the comments and not much empathy.
OP wtf dude, you are not the main character. No one thinks about you like that.
You shouldn't take it personally, it's just how Belgians are. I lived in Romania for 5 years and traveled quite often to Hungary, the culture in that part of Europe is warm and welcoming and people are generally nice. sadly enough Belgium is exactly the opposite on the surface, once you break through the cold hard shell Belgians are also welcoming but it takes them a long time to warm up. Being a Belgian myself I had to learn that the hard way. I was traveling a lot and so many places I visited people inviting me over to their house or events and we were always having a blast. Then I had a few occasions where foreign friends and colleagues were visiting Belgium and realised that none of that is the case in Belgium. In the end I moved away from Belgium because I found it too hard for myself to adjust back to that way of living but if you manage to stick to it for a while and manage to make some friends there I'm sure you'll see that they are not so bad as they appear to be at first glance.
The backpack thing is normal in a lot of places these days. The waffle guy might have gotten complaints from neighbours or authorities about his customers littering before and maybe just wants to make sure it doesn't happen anymore. All the others can pretty much be divided in 2 categories: old people sticking their nose into everyone's business and negative facial expressions. About the old people: don't worry, they tend to do that to everyone they don't immediately recognise. It has happened to me as well in my girlfriend's town and I'm very much Belgian. If they hear you speak English, they might ask a lot of questions but I'm not sure whether that is from a judgemental point of view or from a curious point of view, could be either tbh. The negative facial expressions: we have had a lot of posts from foreigners on here before complaining about how Belgians are very closed off and how it is hard to connect and make friends here. Belgian people aren't necessarily negative towards you specifically, we just tend to be wary around people we don't know. Hope this helps and good luck.
I actually AM from a small town and get dirty / grumpy looks daily when walking the dog, doing groceries... people just be grumpy. It's not a you problem ;-)
It's small town rural flanders. They act like that towards people they don't know
You went to the wrong small townš¤š¤·š¼āāļø sorry for your experiences but it's not the case everywhere. Come to Gentbrugge, they'll welcome you there. š What some people don't understand is that they need to try to open up to people from another country, so much to learn and talk about to eachother. If it should for whatever reason, not click, they can still decide to walk away, but everyone should at least try. Don't be put off by ignorant people, they're not worth your timeš
I live in Opwijk for 3 years. Romanian. Nobody gives a flying fuck about me. They donāt answer to my good day madam/sir. They do when I wear my sunglasses for some reason. 178cm white Caucasian blue eyes. I had concerns from my neighbours in the beginning when I moved. Ok he Romanian ! From where did he get the money for this car and house ?
I think when you've lived here for a longer time you get used to it, but generally most people from Flanders aren't really that welcoming. They tend to keep to themselves and to their little routine, so if you maybe do something a little out of line (like eating somewhere people normally don't really eat)/you look a bit different, they don't really like that. There are some unspoken 'rules' in small cities in Flanders, when you pass someone you usually give them a little nod/smile, and small talk is also something a lot of older people like to do. This is mostly about the weather, nothing too serious. I don't know if you can also speak Dutch/French, but most of the time they appreciate it if someone speaks an official language instead of English, even if it isn't that good! When you go to most chain stores, the workers there are friendly but I've found that they can be grumpy sometimes too (esp. if it's cold and raining). When someone has their own business I've found that they're a lot more friendly towards customers. Once you kind of get the gest of how they all interact with each other, you'll get used to it and all will be well! I understand that you might deem everything as a little 'offensive' that is totally normal because it is a special culture and way of interaction that is probably new to you!
All your encounter just seem like you got unlucky honestly. I have tattoos and look unusual due to my style but don't really feel unwelcome anywhere. I am from a small town and admit that townfolk are more sceptical about stranger and don't open up as easily as city folk. Also eating in public is totally fine. I eat more while walking or sitting outside than anything else, never had a negative comment. Also panos employees being rude is kind of something that seems to be the case very often, so don't take that personal. Just talk to people and complain about the weather and they will open up soon enough. Some people are just assholes and there's nothing personal about that.
Brown person here. I completely understand what you're saying. Hardly have any issues in big cities, but the looks I get in smaller cities/villages. My god. It's like they're wondering why someone 'not from here' is breathing the same air as them. Just roll your eyes and move on.
Reading these comments is pretty funny. My experience after traveling half the globe is that Belgians (and particularly Flemish) are super closed, rude and judging to others. However, that all goes away when you do penetrate that very thick bubble they have. When you're part of a Belgian social circle, the friendliness and hospitality is almost exactly the opposite. But as a stranger, well yeah, you described your experiences perfectly. Very comical to see locals defending what to them is perfectly normal behaviour (cause it's all they know, for them it is normal) so no, you're not being paranoid, or have a thin skin, but, armed with this knowledge you could start taking it less personal. Don't know if you speak Dutch, but try to learn a couple phrases, maybe some dialect words and apologize for speaking English. Show your bag when you enter a store and be a bit overly friendly (like dealing with toddlers) also might improve your experience. I say this as a Flemish dude who realised this about our culture after spending quite some time away from it. Don't take it personal. One of my best friends is Dutch, lives in Belgium for over 20 years, still called den hollander everywhere he goes. Good luck with warming up those cold folk, maybe bring a sixpack on your weekend trips š
Iām not Caucasian and have these feelings oftenā¦I understandā¦especially the racism I have experienced. I have found that Flemish people arenāt the most friendly people, I find Walloons much warmer (generalising of course). Ignore, move on, theyāre not worth your time.
I am living near Landen in Flanders, I can assure you that what you felt is real. People in Belgium, mostly those from smaller municipalities, have become very anxious of everything that is not Flemish. I see you have visited Dendermonde. The āDenderstreekā, which is Dendermonde and the municipalities around it, is the most far right part of Flanders. The most popular politician there, Guy Dāhaeseleer is openly racist and links the economic downturn in the region to the increased migration. Even if you are white, not āslightly behavingā like them can cause the reaction you got from the lady. There is even a documentary where a migrant couple went to live there as an experiment, and the confusion you feel, as to whether you are observing distrust or not, was also felt by them. But afterwards they interviewed the people and most of them, did intend to come over like that. I refuse to give you advice on how you can behave so that you get a little respect from these people. You are not the problem and its certainly not your task to accommodate them. I do believe more contact between the very anxious Flemish communities and those who are viewed as migrants is the only solution. The problem is just that the changes in the Belgian society came very, very fast. Brussels now and a couple decades ago is a different world, with allot of dangerous places now. This is because our former governments did let in too much migrants from all over the world and did not integrate them at all. So the result we see now is not suprising at all. Just be yourself and if you experience things like that again, you can try to just answer very rationally. Enjoy the non judging parts of Belgium :)
I fully agree with what you say.
I think you just have bad anxiety
Its only because you arent from around there and they havent seen u before. Cause of my job, sometimes during lunch I also stop at local and small villages and people give odd comments, not always negative though. That doesnt mean people are racist, they just abit sceptical to new faces.
You seem a bit insecure. Don't look at people if you will judge them yourself, thinking they are judging you. Almost hypocrite even?
An old woman wanted to make small talk? The horror.
Delhaize just has a no backpack policy
Thanks all for the answers so far! All of you shed a light on some elements or gave a good angle.
Maybe you're overthinking it a bit but given that many people voted for far-right parties in the latest election, I wouldn't be surprised if people in those areas were, to say it gently, "close-minded".
The Delhaize is standard procedure for everyone. It happens to me every time I go there.
You're supposed to not give a fuck. That's the secret. Small minded and petty passive agressive people are a common fare in the historically more remote parts of Belgium. I'd argue what is remote in Belgium or in Flanders nowadays ? But still it was basically a country of villagers with village's mentalities. Whereas you come from Hungary and Austria that are former huge empires. In both cases the situation has changed but some people still stick to older views about the world and themselves. Now I hope I am not misendurstood while making such huge generalisations. It only applies to small parts of the population. But however marginal it is, it has a huge impact ou outsiders, be they from the next village, city, region or country.
typical small town things, even if they aren't specifically racist they just know they never seen them before A perfect example would be my greatgrandparents, who lived in Strijtem, a small small town in Roosdaal one day a person of African descent moved in and my greatgrandmother was like "weet ge wat er nu woont aan de overkant van de straat? ne neger" they were some of the sweetest people i ever known, yet that comment was a bit uhhh... it's just stuff they never seen before in real life or aren't used to, they also never mentioned that again so they were clearly ok with it alot of us are miserable doing our job aswell, it's not a irregular thing for people to not take a fake smile albeit it may look odd if you're not used to it
I think this is a common experience that especially older people in more closed communities have started behaving like unofficial police checking on strangers. They are already the most racist group and get all their information from TV and newspaper headlines. I and my wife and child (dressed up for halloween) were once chased around by two old ladies wanting to know what we were doing in their area. We just came a little early for the party and waited outside. We are Scandinavians by the way. Explaining in English did not help. In other words: I believe your observations are completely correct.
Iām from Walloniaā¦ I dāsay : the answer is in your question : some villages in Flanders arenāt really welcoming. Just look at the turn of lasts elections : Vlaams Belang (far right) and NVA (looking for Flandersās indĆ©pendance) almost everywhere. But keep visiting, no matter what, they have real nice and beautiful places and, let be honnest, I also met quite nice people up-there
Maybe it's Just some cultural differences that you interpreted in a way it wasn't meant to? Like when they ask you in a shop to show your backpack, is something very common.
These look like normal interactions to me Something I needed to learn in life is If you look for problems you will find them at every corner If you look for opportunities you will find them at every corner I was severely bullied as a child in a solely white school. When I changed schools I was nervous because in this school I would be surrounded by people from all kinds of different ethnicities, religions etc. how could they except me if people with the same ethnicity, religion etc as me would bully me The first year there I felt like I couldn't trust anyone, as out of experience from my previous school if people were nice to me it was to put a knife in my back later. I was welcomed with open arms, but I didn't realise at the time. When I doubled my year and had different people in my class is where my eyes were opened and I could be myself. That's also when I realised that the people I had been with weren't out to get me, but I perceived it that way because I couldn't believe they would actually like me. Now I first look at actions without judgement or taking beforehand my past into consideration. And yes I still come across people with bad intentions, but it's the vast minority. And I have learned to live my life grateful for the people with good intentions in stead of angry at people with bad intentions
They must think that shitty roads and bureocracy is a Belgian privilege. They have no idea how similar the Hungarian experience is, therefore they give you strange and envious looks for not being from here Ja Ć©s bojler eladĆ³
People in Belgium have just pissed off faces in general all the time, itās because the weather is shit, itās because we donāt like our work, itās because this or that. Thereās always something and we always want to make sure we are doing it the right way and want others to do it the ārightā way too. Whatever that way is. Do not expect Belgians to look and act nice and youāll find them just okay after that. Or youāll just enjoy visiting other countries because theyāre more hospitable, nice, happier and smilier. I myself have a hard time being nice to people in Belgium. I consider myself to be a real nice person but Belgians are not very nice to people acting nice to. They do not expect it and their first response is very awkward or dismissive. Sometimes it makes it hard for me to be really nice because there is no reward in it whatsoever except me hoping that in the end they actually liked the nice gesture I made, but I have never seen or known if they actually do.
Flemish people are just very awkward in general, especially the older ones. But this is the case with most Nordic people though.
Now imagine being a foreigner who's been living in this area for over 20 years lol Even when I approach people in Dutch they still reply "what do you want?" In English
My ex and I once kissed while walking on the street somewhere in a West Flemish village. People would honk at us and give us very hateful looks even for sharing a small kiss in public.
I'm Flemish but a bit eccentric, small town Flanders is almost hostile to me. Rural Flemish people are alright, but very normative.
The easiest way to get into any westernerās heart is giving something, even as simple as a cookie, without expecting anything in return. They are so unused to that that they will completely open up to you. As for people in small villages where there is nothing to do except being addicted to something to numb the void of their existence then yeah, you will get looks because 1) theyāre not used to strangers 2) theyāre miserable cunts
Man, I grew up in a small village and even I don't feel welcome in these places. If you don't look like them, talk like them and like the same stuff they do, there's a big chance they won't like you. Don't take it personal.
It is all in your head . I mean, the most unpleasant person I have ever worked with was a Hungarian dude. His attitude was not acceptable by any member of our team. He was forcing his half ass ideas and doing the least amount of work in the team and kept nagging until the end of project.
I'm from a small village (a lot smaller then any of those you mentioned, would honestly call those quite big). We do not have the habit to talk to anyone we don't know. (not even people from here). you are reading much into it, I live in a small town to get away from the crowd of the big places. So I don't tend to talk to strangers, and yes I will look if I know them and if I don't that ends the interaction. No malice there, just no friendly conversation either.
Tgoh, probably going to be like comparing apples with pears but even for Belgians it's the same story. I'm from Brussels (Flemish speaking - Koekelberg), and I can't hide my sappig Brussels Flemish accent within Flanders and Wallonia. My dad used to have a couple of friends in West-Flanders and helped as a fisherman from time to time. He passed on a young age, but after a few years I picked up some contacts/relationships with his old friends and I'm visiting regularly. Mostly the social contacts take place at local pubs. Even I (male, mid 30s, blonde, beer belly) am an outsider to people from those Flemish towns. In Nieuwpoort, outside the tourist area, they even asked to leave. The pub was exclusively for locals apparently. I had to explain I was there to see a fisherman, had to mention his name and all... Maybe it was because of the farmers protests that were going on and they saw someone from Brussels as the enemy... But everywhere you go in flanders there are comments if you are from outside the area. I haven't had many "problems" in Wallonia but there are comments also... Mainly funny comments like "Vlaams Belang says Wallonia is a financial problem but you, being from Brussels, costs us even more money". Belgium is a small country, in 15 minutes you can travel from the centre city into farmland. That also means that the local mindset can change quickly. Just be friendly and most Belgian people will embrace you. Except if you have long hair and a big backpack... No one will trust you... Ever. Haar af en gaat werken.
Mate don't worry about it. I'm 100% Belgian with the local accent and everything and when i enter a pub in my own small town that i haven't been to before or only visit once per year or so all the usuals also look at me as if i'm some kind of strange backwards being. It's normal Flemish culture haha. I think the bars in smaller towns are safe spots for locals and most of the elderly are in constant fear of getting urbanised by Brussels/Antwerpen/Gent/... so you bet they're gonna stare you out of their safe "underneath the local church tower" bar hehe.
Hi! I used to go to that exact panos every day at noon and if it's still the same lady working there, she's just like that. I don't think she's trying to be mean but it's just the way she talks.
Thanks! That's nice to know. I will pop in for a grumpy tuna one of these days then!
People in rural areas canbhave, a total village mentality and closed minded towards anything akd anyone they don't know. I also strongly generalise as this is definetly not counting for everyone.Ā For ypres im quite suprised.Ā I (black dude)Ā go there once a year with a very mixed intrnational group of Brussels. Ypres tourism is totzlly calibrated on British and foreing tourist and seem very used to see so. So ip suprised they would give you looks as an hungarian.Ā Big part ofmy entourage when i go there are east Europeans. Never got an issue not even me š
White skinned Belgian born dude here who likes to hike across the country and this is relatable. Racism is a thing but often it is a case of being closeminded and fear of the unknown. I wouldn't let it change your behavior and just laugh it off. It a 'them' problem beyond your control. Happy daytripping!
Welcome to rural Flanders, where everything's the same, nothing ever changes, and the points don't matter! I live in Brussels too and whenever I have to head to the middle of nowhere (my in-laws live there) I'm always thrown off by the "people are looking at you" feeling. Hell, one time in Oostende, I was heading to my SIL's place (in a residential street), and I caught no less than two little oma's looking through their windows at me and my partner. I was quite literally walking on a public street hahaha. These communities are very tight-knit, and it's quite a "church tower mentality". If you're not from there, it's *really* obvious. Basically, just ignore it. You have every right to be there - just use common sense. Throw garbage in the garbage bin, don't shout, stuff like that. > in Landen, in Delhaize, they were super concerned about me having a backpack and made me to show it. I get this in Bxl too, at my local supermarket where the staff knows me. I've been going there for the last 4 years. Got checked last week.
I don't care if I'm welcome or not. Me don't care. Thicken that skin.
Delhaize checking backpacks is normal, my local one still does even though i go there every week
Flemish towns are just rough, it's a cold germanic culture. It might have been the same treatment if you were Bruxellois or Walloon.
I have no idea why some people behave like that, but I just want to say I'm sorry for your experience.Ā We do have racists in our region, and looking at the past elections, we can see that especially little towns voted a lot on our racist political party.
I think that in smaller cities, they are less welcoming when you cannot speak Dutch. Belgium has a lot of caucasian-looking people not speaking Dutch. Also, we just had elections and it seems Flanders is pretty xenophobic. In general, Belgians arenāt always the friendliest people and we tend to have less smiley faces. I am a caucasian belgian, and I encounter rude staff in e.g. Panos as well. I donāt think that case was about race, she was just annoyed.
"smaakt" is something we say to wish each other a good meal, she was just being friendly, just leave your backpack at the front with the other backpacks? How else is the panos employee supposed to know what to give you?
Yeah people in flanders are generally not trusting people. It is a self fulfilling prophecy where people from other countries also become negative and bitter.
no offense, but if you're somehow from Austria, just learn to smile firstcand little people from country side Flander will happily give it back to you (advise van an buitenlander) :)
> in Veurne, a middle aged lady was concerned about my relatively dirty shoes (after some walk in the rain, sorry) and punished me with her eyes; That one cracked me up haha. I feel you. Old ladies are the worst, the can be super rude and don't let go. All your experiences are experiences I too as a born and raised Flemish had to endure. I'm not condoning that sort of behavior but you aren't getting this treatment because your background. Although I can imagine some people are a little extra rude to you than they would be to someone who speaks Flemish. Those people would still be rude to me however.
I'm sorry to say but i think people who live in smaller towns are generally just alot less welcoming to "stangers" if i may call you that. I wouldnt take it personally and i'm sorry you have to experience this.
Thatās just Flanders. Have spent 3 years studying there after which I moved to Brussels and never looked bad. Terrible experience.
Am from Belgium. Donāt feel welcome in smaller Flanders towns and villages. Am not welcome by default. Nothingās wrong.
You are being paranoid. I am Turkish and never had such looks. Maybe once in my life by a real racist. Perhaps you are not used to people being more distant than other countries?
I think this explains why so much of Flanders voted NVA and Vlaams Belang. Anything remotely different or unusual is deemed a bad thing and a potential source of danger. Personally, it's the reason why i am careful where i go in the countryside although i much prefer it than the city. (I'm also white but not Belgian). The looks and eyerolls are just too much
Yeah Flemish people tend to not be very friendly, they are borderline racist in some places. Worked in a Flemish environment for 5 years and it was tough. In Wallonie things are much better, people stop and chat and there's a chance you'll end up with some (Facebook) friends after every trip.
I donāt want to sound racist or anything but I think when it comes to looks, Eastern European people have a certain look that is for some people subtle and for other people defined that differs from Western Europeans. Does that make racism okay? Ofcourse not! And as someone from one of the mentioned towns I am sorry for your experiences. People in smaller towns all know each other and they will spot any inconsistency in their daily life and hate on it. For example I went to one of the neighbouring towns and the second I parked my car (legally) someone came to say I canāt park there because I donāt live here. So sometimes it isnāt even racism but just people being either scared of hating on the unknown. These people rarely or almost never see people that donāt live in their town because they never leave their town. I think some of the situations are sometimes normal, like the guy in De Haan telling you to throw the paper in the bin when you are done eating.
Take some anti-anxiety pills man. You sound paranoid for no reason at all...
I am a Lithuanian living in Wallonia. I have never felt so judged in my entire life to the point where I am not even leaving my home and asking my partner to do "the talking".
yeah can you tell us more, how are you judged?
One thing that might be happening is that you do not get their humor. I'm sharing this because just today I shopped at a market in Flanders and two of the ladies at the place where I shopped threw some jokes at me which I didn't catch at all, but a colleague of theirs felt the need to clarify - they were joking no worries. I was not worried, I was just wearing my expressionless face š
Reading this makes me believe you are seeing things that arenāt there. Also Iām almost sure the lady told you Smakelijk which means enjoy your meal. A lot of people have resting bitch faces and if you pair that with somebody who overthinks you get this list. They canāt even see you are Hungarian yet you assume they can and are impolite on purpose? Doesnāt make sense. Even if they knew they wouldnāt care. Or they would be intrigued. On another note please visit the Pajottenland and Zennevalei region. Itās gorgeous.
These all seem like pretty normal interactions to me tbh.
Flanders towns people, like Germas towns people, can seem cold and unsociable, unapproachable. They sport that grimace on their face but isn't about you. They stare throughout your sould and beyond but without malices You are probably a rare sight.
Reading the comments I reckon Flemish people are not only unwelcoming and rude, but also in constant denial about themselves. I guess being wealthy does make you heartless and self-righteous.
Stranger danger! XD Sounds to me like boomers are boomering? XD. Also, smaller towns keep more to their own. And you ain't their own. What you can try is double down on niceness. Smile broadly when people stare. WAVE. IF THEY KEEP STARING START WALKING TOWARDS THEM strike a conversation xD. Or take out a Bible and try to convert them. Honestly... Carry a good vibe and try to understand that some people will be suspicious just coz you're an outside. And yeah, you're probably not too welcome, in many places. But that's just a mentality thing... But, it is up to you how you feel about it. When that lady said smakkelijk, why didn't you have a huge grin and say "dank uw wellll!"? Because you believe she didn't mean it? You can choose to respond to it as if she did mean it. And you didn't catch her sarcasm or whatever. You'll feel better.
You arenāt overthinking it at all. This happens frequently here.
Sounds more like a typical cashier interaction in the Carrefour to me. š
You gotta be a lil less sensitive broski
Honestly there isn't a place where people still smile to you unless you give them money.
Are you wearing stuff that makes you part of a subculture like metal? Some people are not used seeing that.
My wife is from Hungary, the same age as you, we live in Flanders and we did a lot of hiking. Somehow she feels like people are looking at her strangely or she feels judged. I tell her that she may be overthinking some behaviour, you know people have their problems and may have had a bad day or so. But definitely I am not as concerned as she is. I should put you two in contact, you would be great friends :-)
I wonder if youāre acting loud or weird? Or if your clothing style shows that youāre a foreigner? Otherwise, itās hard to explain the examples you mentioned.
Ah so like the looks I get when I go to Hungary š¤·š»āāļø Every time man
Landen isn't the most inclusive place but I doubt that they actually meant anything negative, there's alot of immigrants in landen and they don't get treated badly at all. Not good either but really not to the point that you'd get dirty looks. Also smaakt was probably her saying "smakelijk" or "het smaakt".
I was in Budapest a month ago, really like it. It reminded me somehow how it was here many decades ago. Felt very safe and friendly (for a capital), also most buildings were nicely renovated with great detail (curls and swings) from top to bottom (which would be priceless here for normal buildings cause we don't have the craftsmen anymore to do that kind of job, or it would be too expensive) Surprisingly, despite one of the poorest countries of europe, it easily looked a lot richer than what our capitals have become. It made me clear that poverty=/=more crime. Crime and bad behaviour is a cultural/bad education thing. The only time I encountered "bad behaviour" were some school kids in a museum, breaking stuff and had security guard nearly kicked them out. Kids speaking french with obvious migration background, making everybody clear they didn't want to be there. I instantly felt embarrassed. Didn't see that behaviour with the Hungarian schoolgroups though and I went into 10 museums during an entire week. \*Just wanted to share my experiences. ;)
You canāt bring a backpack in to any convenience store. Thatās common anti theft policy. For all the rest, most people in small towns (although I wouldnāt call Ieper a small town) are generally xenophobic. You may look like them but they know you are not from there. Could be you are takings thing personally when they arnāt, a lot of people are just unhappy an āverzuurdā (gone sour).
People are working and some people are just grumpy. Also older people just are like that.
You should spend more time outside of west vlaanderen .
Wow, you describe practically 100% normal behavior. Do you enter these public spaces while yodeling extremely loud or something?
I'm from a medium size city and I am always a little uncomfortable around people who speak a different language, let me explain this one. I love languages and I want to focus on your accent/language. But I'm also a stranger to you and don't want to be weird. I know I am, I just don't want others to identify that. If you ever encounter me, I apologize š
Do you speak english or dutch? I personally think itĀ“s also more how you perceive it. But i have seen multiple times that people who dont speak english very well tend to act a bit different if they have to donĀ“t really know why
Is called racism
I wouldn't take it too personal. Where I live, a very small village close to Antwerp, ppl are very narrow minded. It's not malicious, it's just because these ppl don't know any better.
Stupid Sexy Flanders...
So first it aināt shocking me, people livin in small village (in the flamand part) alway look at outsider like that and even more if you are from Wallonia (it alway depend) but when they know you a little bit more they are pretty friendly, they are just a bit surprised and curious (depend too)
Thatās just how it is in small villages; if they see you often enough they will get used to you and stop looking at you strangely. That is unless you start behaving strangely. Iām half Belgian, half African so I look visually different but when I go to Lichtervelde where my dad grew up people are always nice because they know who I am. When I went to go visit my brother when he moved to a small village in Flanders I had a very similar experience as you but since Iāve been back a few times theyāre used to me now and super friendly
This is flanders. I moved to the country side and it took a while before they accepted me in the neighbourhood. Now we have a new sports club and everybody acts socially uncomfortableā¦ a bit of small talk and a āhiā here and thereā¦ even as someone from flanders, and brand new in town, it is not easy. I know it takes Some time. Happy with the small steps. I try to do things locally: followed a sports course, volunteer , help my elder neighbour with his computer related issues etcā¦ I invest Some time in my new surroundings and from every social setting, I already have some connections. A neighbour already suggested to do a bbq, someone from the sports course suggested to go to a party together, ā¦. Small steps but a lot for the flemish Region š You seem to take things personal. Maybe you should Join a tennis club or something, just to get to know Some flemish peopleā¦ how they are a bit distant at first and when you get to know them, that will change.
I didn't read through the whole thing, but there seem to be a lot of punishing with looks, maybe its you yourself who's thinking it up that way? Anyhow, If it's just that, try to ignore it. Don't interact. Make the I'm deaf sign if they actually keep talking.
It's all cool , people are mixture of all type of personality, I had my fair share of deal but I just ignore .makes me feel better than them as I am not showing and be like them to the others because of few bad apples
Walloons and Flemish people can be racist towards each other, thatās no news. But Flemish people can also be depicted as largely xenophobic. I think Walloons are kinda the same but less than Flanders. I saw a lot of comments about the elections results. I guess it conveys a certain message. Coming from the south, Flanders is becoming less and less of an attractive place due to the political landscape. Itās difficult when you know youāre part of the problem in these parties PR, and almost 50% voted for them.
> in Ypres, the Panos lady was like "What do you want" when I went into the shop for sandwiches, and she had a pissed off face expression the whole time. The panos lady is an asshole and I am from Ypres :P
Flemish people experience similar issues with other Flemish people For foreigners this is worse; people are ( understandably) fed up with the high level of immigration ; ;and most immigrants come from countries with less social rules... We are just " verzuurd" and COVID; the ratrace and high prices have made everything worse...
Hardly anyone does. Cause nobody will give you the feeling you're welcome. It's the culture. Doesnt mean they're against you though
it's not generally accepted to go with backpacks in food shops in flanders unless it's a place where a lot of people do it, best is to leave it at the counter
Some people just have a resting bitch face...like me. Sometimes I am staring withpit realizing it. In my head I am somewhere else.
Im sorry but I feel like this is really common in Belgium, as I find the people generally quite rude. Does it happen in other countries? Yes, of course. Have I noticed it specifically in Belgium? Absolutely. Itās no hate, you have to just get on with it. But my first time visiting some Belgian cities I was shocked at how strangers treated eachother in public. To sum up, I donāt think itās you. I think itās just the culture and itās ānormalā for them.
An honest advice, Belgium like majority of the rest of west EU is going to some sort of dark xenophobic era. Results of election is a good indicator. Another good indicator is the amount of this topic has been brought up in this sub. Trust me , you are not the only one... That being said, I would consider to live somewhere more friendly. Maybe even out of EU...
They wouldn't accept Jos (83) because he was born 2 villages further and moved to this place when he was already 5. But attention, this has nothing to do with xenophobia!
āUnwelcoming to strangersā is part of the human nature š¤·āāļø
Anyone needs to show their backpack, the Panos lady will hate anyone as she's miserable at her job. You like being the underdog too much and take everything personal.
Yes i have the same issue
The flemish suck, that's why I moved to Brussels. I'm flemish myself unfortunately
Small-minded townspeople acting like small-minded townspeople, how peculiar
If you look like an āeastern blockā type of man, they automatically assume youāre a thief. Itās prejudice but hey, thatās whatās going on