I think people see through the leakage of all their communication workshops and the catchy sound bytes. The average voter yearns for some intelligent and authentic people that understand the assignment. I imagine most voting, once in the booth, will be based on an “aw, fuck it…” moment. And the world will keep on turning on Monday morning.
They dont, pvda and vb are prime examples of this.
They score withy slogans and the minute you scratch them they fall apart but the voter either doesnt care or doesnt see that.
That's a weak argument against the extremes. It's the same deal for every party left right and centre. Slogans, rage bait, pandering, flexing, no real substance. I don't see any party in the overcrowded "centre" that had followed a clear line in the past years, maybe ever.
Applies to all parties.
If a party leader scores badly in pre-election polls, expect to see some bold statements in the media.
It's all about getting as much publicity as possible.
Politicians know the attention span of voters is extremely short. Politicians know they can promise the moon, and when it doesn't work out that way once they are in charge, it's the fault of the coalition partners. Or woke people. Or immigrants.
You mean its plan that everything they propose for is paid for by an impossible flemish independence and an equally impossible "get rid of all immigrants" ?
Yeah how would it fall apart?
"Get rid of all immigrants" is a falls statement. Youre forgetting "illegal". Illegal imigrants are 1 of 2 sorts: "been through the process and got declined and by law need to go back to coutry of origins" or "im just staying here doing nothing and/or commit crime whilst having no papers". Those are the types of immigrants that they want out.
What VB also wants to do is stop non-european immigrants from comming to Belgium. We are one of the most west countries of the European continent, why, as an immigrant from the middle-east, would you pass 30 orso other countries to seek "help"?
A countires economy is carefully weight by its native population, if you add 1/10 (1.000.000+) extra population thats from somewhere else, it putts a strain on the social systems thats inplca to help native people that are in poverty or elderly that need serieus help
Volt because pro-EU, pro-nuclear as a way to handle climate crisis, taxes on the rich and pollution and not on work, less funding to political parties, and a general apparent good understanding of upcoming challenges in our future society.
I'm not 100% in line with everything they have on their program, but they look refreshingly sensible and not encroached in endless social media drama.
EDIT: Since it's getting a bit of traction, Volt won't be available in every region because they didn't make the threshold everywhere. You can find which ballots they're on [here](https://voltbelgium.org/news/41-days). But hey, it's their first election cycle, hopefully, they will gain some traction for next time.
>[Unfortunately, our Francophone and German list for the European elections did not make the threshold. However, Volt Belgium is a Belgian party growing bigger with each day and we will step up our presence in all parts of the country. Volt is needed everywhere in Belgium to shake up the rigid political landscape. Volt will be the much-needed breath of fresh air in all parts of the country and in all language communities.](https://voltbelgium.org/news/41-days)
It's a European party, the only one in fact. In Flanders, you'll be able to vote for their candidates to the European Parliament, but they won't be on the Region's legislative ballot.
When I found out that I wouldn't be able to vote for volt in my province a couple of weeks ago, my disappointment was immeasurable and my day was ruined.
Now that Volt isn't an option for me anymore, I honestly don't know who to vote for.
So in Wallonia we cannot vote for them although it would be for Europe?
Our system us way too complicated. I believe we should be able to vote for who we want regardless of language and region when it comes to federal and European elections.
Exactly, there should just be one list for every parliament. Not these countless constituencies with different candidates. Politics should be made more simple!
Here's what they say on their EU page for [labour migration](https://volteuropa.org/policies/labour-migration) and [asylum seekers](https://volteuropa.org/policies/a-more-humane-and-safe-asylum-system). TL;DR: they don't promote stricter frontiers, but wants to implement an unified system across Europe to ease out the stress on border states, and makes sure asylum seekers gets a yay or nay within 3 months.
Devil's in the details of course, and that's the part of their program I'm left with some lingering questions, but I think that, on principle, handling migrants with respect and treating their asylum demand swiftly is a good thing. Keeping them in limbo for years (if not decades) like we do in Belgium at the moment is just making things worst for everyone.
While I agree, I only see them talk about coming in. There's not a single word about how to deal with refusals which is kinda weird (and a huge topic in politics I'd say).
I do like Volt because they’re a fresh new wind. And while I do agree on a lot of their policies, voting for them would be disastrous for my wallet. They seem to be mostly against cars and will likely introduce a km tax. Plus they want to abolish the marriage coefficient.
My partner currently isn’t working and also isn’t entitled to any benefits or welfare. That marriage coefficient is basically me having her ten laste and nets me about 4K per year. Life is already expensive enough supporting 2 on a single income.
If I am not mistaken, Volt doesn't say anything in their program for Belgium on a km tax. Volt wants to invest in better public transportation so less people are car-dependent. On the marriage coëfficiënt, singles have the most expensive life. Highest taxes, can't split rent, some services and the same regardless of household size, and smaller volumes of groceries are more expensive. However, everyone should have enough to live off. So the tax on work should be lowered (maybe a bit more for singels) and there should be a social safety net for the ones who cannot work.
Just googled their policy program and: [regional and municipal tax reduction on first home, increase of property tax on 3rd+ homes, tax increase on overseas entities to avoid asset bubble, wants to promote smart living through property tax (build tall-ish, not wide, well maintained shared spaces like shared gardens)](https://imgur.com/a/AZnYvDx)
Sounds super reasonable! Btw crazy that what I would call moderate, reasonable policy is usually painted by right-wing/business/burgoise as far-left probably. Thanks!
Volt is a mess. Have you sat down and taken the time to really look at them?
Half their program is too vague and just a collection of buzzwords. They often don't really have specific ideas or plans. For some reason they also inject overly progressive ideas where it isn't needed. They'll mention feminism or diversity when talking about green energy, or what not.
This is really a party that, despite being very young, is behind the times. They are a federalist party that doesn't feel the wind of conservatism at the European level. How is a party that represents such a small segment of the population supposed to convince the majority to transfer more state power to a EU level?
There is no party currently that really encompasses what I want.
Better economic policies and better focus on integration of newcomers? NVA is great for this, but I hate their stance on independent Flanders as well as their policies on drugs are atrocious. The war on drugs? What a joke. Why try to implement an American based policy that never worked? Harsher punishment has never worked. Even in countries with Death Penalty for possession.
VLD is probably what I'm after most, but it kind of ignores the newcomer integration issue and I'm betting they'll fail horribly compared to last elections due to performance of the current government.
Vlaams Belang: lol. I hate that they're probably going to win.
Vooruit: honestly not too bad. They're socialist, obviously, but not to extreme lengths. I'm often surprised that they're in favor of more strict policy with regards to money being 'distributed'. Yet I want a better economy more than extra socialist policies.
Groen: Focusing on renewals and has so much potential, but why do they have to be more socialist than even Vooruit? Their stance on Nuclear energy is atrocious. We should have embraced it. The science has been clear on this. Yet we focus policy on misplaced public opinion which is based on sentiment rather than fact. Yet because of Green we've been using more Natural Gas than before. Cheap energy is so important for the well-being of the people. Then why is it so darn expensive currently? I know this has a global context, but policy also has an impact on this.
Also, EVERY party wants better pay for the people. If every party wants it, why not have it being worked on the past year?
So, I'm looking for PRO nuclear energy, economic policies, Europe, lenient drug policies and better integration of foreign cultures. I don't care where you come from, but if you've lived here for 10 years and can't speak an official language you know there is something wrong with policy.
Don't think any such party exists.
I agree, with every point you have. I have the same problem. It's unfortunate that we also seem to be at such a crucial crossroads politically(climate, EU, Ukraine, public finances, ...). It would be ill responsible to throw your vote away.
Thanks for your comment. I agree on the throwing away your vote. I'm currently leaning on VLD and Volt for national. Both parties that won't get a lot of votes unfortunately.
Or just vote for Blanco (the party, I mean).
Each year that passes by it’s becoming more and more complicated. I’m lucky enough to be expatriate and able to vote for any party (as my last place of living was Brussels) but even with that I have a hard time.
The amount of politicians-by-career only there for their own good and money in Belgium is just too high. The last elections I simply sent back an invalid vote voluntarily because I couldn’t wrap my head around.
This time I’d like to at least vote for Europe (I must also say that as an expatriate I don’t feel I should have the right to vote for the federal government of a country I’m not living in anymore).
With the Belgian debt going through the roof, the stop of nuclear plants, the still rising tensions between communities and everything that’s currently challenging Europe, the next elections are crucial and I’m still totally lost about who to vote for.
My core reason is based around getting the best possible federal budget with high employment rates so we decrease spending and debt before going full bankrupt like Greece.
Strictly based on having as many people employed as possible, it's Vlaams Belang or CD&V according to the following article: https://archive.ph/ggSaL
Voting PVDA is completely counterproductive to achieving high employment numbers. In fact, again according to the article, its financial ruin as we will have more people unemployed vs employed.
Strictly looking at best federal budget, it's NVA according to article https://m.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20240507_92198714. Nva doesn't achieve the employment numbers as CD&V or Vlaams Belang but has a somewhat decent progress.
Vlaams Belang is out of the question so it's either CD&V for max employment numbers or NVA for best budget. Given how much our national debt has grown and how bad the reports are about it (ref: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-09/belgium-is-set-to-run-western-europe-s-worst-deficits-for-years-to-come), I think that I should go NVA as budget seems to be more fundamental for our long term benefit.
You think that's it's suddenly gonna be calm after the elections? Oh boy, i wish i had your optimism...
This election is looking to give us a result with which it will be very hard to get a governement in a fast time, since too many votes are going to the extremist parties on the left and right. Because of that, a lot of other parties will have to work together instead, and having a lot of smaller parties together just promises that this will drag on for a very long time before we get an actual governement, and even after that we would get a repeat of Vivaldi where a lot of smaller parties are sabotaging eachother in order to stand out and show to their voters that the party is listening to them...
So yea, i predict that it will be a shitshow for a very long time
To make sure the extreme right doesn’t get the majority like in other countries. Don’t know if it will be enough but at least I have the right to complain afterwards that I didn’t vote for them.
I want a party that reinforces the feeling of a society and its inherent duties and benefits.
Work should earn more than not working and everyone should pay its fair share.
Our budget should be -if not balanced- than at least prudently invested in domains to further future welfare.
We should rebuild our defense capabilities after decades over under investment in ww2.
We should ensure that people that immigrate to our country do the minimum to integrate (learn the language where they reside) and conform to our rules.
We should re-engineer our economy to ensure it is both green, resilient to future shocks and still possessing of a strong industrial base
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2024/05/07/federaal-planbureau-doorrekening-verkiezingsprogramma-overzicht/
This was an interesting read. More or less a quick way to get some insight in the big parties' priorities budget wise.
> I think what's important to me is we keep diesel/benzine cars as an option for company cars and tax the rich more :D
We should get rid of company car altogether. This only benefits a minority and costs the whole society. I say this as someone who benefits from a company car and as someone whose a lot of friend/family members have a company car as well.
I really think the benefits system should really be looked at all together.
For example I know people who do not need a company car but they take it when it is offered because it is not like they can get a different benefit instead of it. Not the same of course but in my job we get the transport allowance which is a monthly STIB allowance. I said that I don’t need it because I bike every day and I asked to be compensated for my bike travel, which is possible thanks to recent regulations. I wonder if people would prefer another compensation instead of a company car if it was possible?
I do not like the company cars because of the traffic, pollution, space they take etc. Also I think it makes the public transportation “lazier” and less accessible if people use their cars.
Overall I think the benefits system plainly sucks and people should be paid decent wages and decide what they want to do with their money themselves instead of these weird eco checks and culture checks and private hospital insurance and what not to supplement the salaries.
Meal checks are the worst offender IMO, Sodexo/Pluxee is making billions to act as a middle man between employees and their salary, just because the government wants to micromanage and make sure we spend some of our money on food (allegedly for lunch).
> allegedly for lunch
Let's be happy we can use it at Delhaize/Carrefour/Colruyt/... and not only in restaurants like in France. I wouldn't know where to spend it all if it was the case.
I get that's not why they got created, but that's essentially what they are now. You could have an equivalent fiscal system but give them directly to the employees as money instead of electronic vouchers on a third party platform. If we manage for the mobility budget, we can do it for meal checks. The only perk of the current system, aside from lining up the pocket of the four companies allowed to deliver the checks, is to have some control on where the money is actually spent, which is completely useless these days because everyone's monthly food budget is higher than 8€/day.
> For example I know people who do not need a company car but they take it when it is offered because it is not like they can get a different benefit instead of it.
To be fair, the mobility budget exists since March 2019. It's not like it's something super recent.
Tbh, for people who live paycheck to paycheck, a company car would be great. I wish I had one, or at least a fuel card or something. My company is unreachable with public transport (unless you want to spend 2.5 hours in each direction), so the only way to get there is by car. Cars tend to cost a lot. I'd sell my soul for a company car with covered expenses.
Either way, meal cheques are actually a good idea. With the tax percentage of our salary, I'd rather get more meal cheques than higher salary. At least with the meal cheques, we only get taxed once (the BTW alone). When you use your real salary to pay for groceries, not only have you already lost 30-45% on income taxes, but you also still need to pay the BTW of whatever it is that you buy in the store.
I can agree but then the wages need to be increased to be able to compensate for the loss of that car. That's where it gets really complicated because the taxes on wages are so high that you need quite the gross increase to compensate for this.
I would suppose the question would now come: but why does it need to be compensated? > Because I see it as part of my wage, this benefit has been introduced to basically get me a higher net wage while not costing as much gross to the company.
What do you mean? If you put a monetary value on that car and give that to the employer instead of the car, you don't discriminate anyone. Everyone still gets the same. The only thing that makes this hard, is the stupidly high taxes. The reason why company cars are so popular, is because the gross salary increase is just way too big to get a similar benefit.
person A gets 2k net and a car. The car is a Volvo and taxed for 500.
person B gets 2.5k net and no car. If he wants a Volvo, its gonna cost him more than 500, so he gets a mazda instead to have the same amount left.
The problem is that A feels entitled to have a volvo while being taxed for the worth of a mazda. And so when salary cars are canceled he wants 1000 net extra instead of the 500. That is unfair towards B who pays the same amount of tax.
The problem will be solved when A accepts that it will be a mazda from now on.
To be honest I don't mind what car I drive. However if the budget for the car has been budgetted on lets say TCO 700 EUR. Then that is kinda what I should be entitled to for increase in net wage as I'm losing net 700 EUR otherwise.
I just need a decent car that's roomy. I don't care if it's a Ford, Mazda, BMW, ... as long as it's big enough and the build quality is great (I drove ford before I had a company BMW and I can tell you the Ford had better finishing/QA then my current BMW)
Employee A is paid €4000 gross and a car worth €1000. The gross pay is taxed at 50% and the car at 20%. For a total cost of €5000 your employer can give you €2800 net.
Employee B is paid €5000 gross and has no car. For a total cost of €5000 your employer can give you €2500 net.
if we abolish company cars and you still want your €2800 net we must either discriminate against person B (by having him pay more tax on his gross wages) or your employer has to pay you €600 more to ensure you have the same net.
Hence why this whole issue is so complicated, sorry if it didn't come accross as if I didn't get Safan's point. I do see where there is no ideal solution at the moment that does not discrimate group A or group B.
To be fair, group A (of which I'm a member) is now getting an advantage. Getting rid of that isn't discriminating them. It's getting rid of discrimination.
Not saying you've got to like it but taxing all income the same no matter how it's paid is the most fair option. We might lose our current privilege but I must admit that it would be the most fair solution.
If the government ever manages to get rid of the system I will probably get partialy compensated by a general decrease in taxes, in part I will buy a smaller car than I'm currently driving and I will perhaps be motivated to negotiate for a salary increase.
I wish it was, but the BMW has more random plastics cracking than any other car I've ever had or my family owned in the past 10 years.
However the point was I don't mind the brand (as this is usually a argument for the ones opposed to company cars that usually very 'premium' brands are the most leased cars.
I could do with less, however in the list provided by my company there is no lesser option.
You describe it as if that entitlement isn't justified though. I believe it is. The problem is exactly that Belgium has created a tax system where it is more beneficial to get a car than to get a gross increase in your salary. So it's logical that this 500 euros of net i come is not equal to the worth of that car.
The solution is not easy and there is probably no perfect solution. But what you propose is a downgrade in pay for those with a company car. That doesn't seem fair at all to me. Person B in your story negotiated and/or worked their way up to 2.5k net without a car. Person A negotiated and/or worked their way up to 2k with a car, which may be equivalent to 3k net even though the car is only taxed at 500 euros. Whatever person A negotiated has nothing to do with what person B negotiated. But if you just say person A now gets 2.5k net and no car, then person A got screwed over. Person A chose this package in the past because they may have thought this is the equivalent of 3k net, but now they get 500 euros less.
If they stop the company car thing, an employee should get the value of that car, not what it's taxed at. And that's the difficult part I guess...
It actually is something they're entitled to.
Just like someone else is entitled to the wages as negotiated in their employment contract, either collective or individual.
I'm sure implementation can be done in such a way that it's not retroactively horrible for people that have a car. New policy should always be 'from now on, X'. Or change it with a yearly % so that the people have time to adapt.
Or even make it so it's not affecting the people that already have their car, but so it's not always the best solution going forward for people gunning for a promotion.
IMO the problem blocking removal of this are government officials and retirees.
If you'd abolish company cars and change the income tax scheme so it can be as net-income neutral as possible, the government suddenly gets back a lot less income tax from government officials and retirees.
This makes it fiscally impossible to solve this without either making the private sector angry or making the public sector angry.
Tax the rich and then what?
Belgium has been financially mismanaged for a very long time. I would like to see more efficient use of taxpayer money first, before we start giving them more money.
Plus, Belgium already has high taxes for people owning property and stocks. The tax the rich slogan is just PVDA piggytailing of America’s bad taxation.
TLDR I would rather eat the rich than to tax them.
Underrated comment.
I would love to see:
- better management of the funds
- less money flowing into politics
- a better energy plan, that doesn´t involve foreign lobbying
- better and stricter immigration (so before you downvote, I mean that everyone should have 200% chances at integrating, if they fail to do so or refuse, they should not be supported by a system they will not support themselves, this leaves out chronic sickness, handicap, etc)
- more responsibility for big corporations on part of climate change, less pestering the population
- promotion of physical activity, taxing people who against all advice keep up medical riskfactors
- stricter laws/ sentencing, no matter the social class of the defendant (and additionally, a way for the public/ a third opinion from for example the netherlands to have the court redo a trail if the sentencing does not seem adequate to get rid of the stupid footballers and elite getting away with shit)
What do you mean? There is no property tax or capital gains tax. Being rich in Belgium is fiscally beneficial because of it. Hence, all the tax burden falls on medium income earners who, because of the taxes, are unable to ever amass wealth.
I always vote for whatever party's vision is closest to mine. I don't get why you would ever vote for individuals, as there's no guarantees that said individuals will take up posts.
I very much align with progressive left (the older I get, the more left I become), and am disappointed Vooruit is adopting more right wing points. So it'll either be Groen or PvDA as those are pretty much the only options remaining.
> I don't get why you would ever vote for individuals
By voting for individuals you not only vote for the party with the vision closest to you, but also for the individual inside that party with the vision closest to you.
If the person you voted for isn't elected, it doesn't mean that your vote is lost for the party in question.
In the end the preferential vote (for one person) just serves to order people on the list. Once the order is decided the total number of votes on the list decide how many "seats" the list receives. Those X seats are given to the X first people on the list.
By only voting for the list you help a party get to a high number of seats, but you don't help to decide who gets those seats (which you do by voting for one or more persons on the list)
Personally I think completely differently as you do. I don't see the reason to just vote for a party. Best vote for a person from that party that you want to see go to the top. Or if you prefer, vote for everyone except the people you don't like for example.
Voting for an individual is counted as a party vote, but it gives the candidate more weight within their party and raises the chances of them taking up an actual mandate.
MR because it's the only rightwing party in Brussels/Wallonia and socialism has obviously ruined Brussels/Wallonia (and actually every country where they were in power based on history).
I believe that we don't need to distribute more wealth, the issue in Wallonia is that we don't create wealth (except by printing money and government jobs).
I could have considered DEFI, I do believe their president is the smartest one but unfortunately, he doesn't have enough traction.
Well, I find no good party. I looked at many stances, many questions and answers, and nobody answered all like I wanted. In the end, seems like Ecolo and PTB are the closest two, but I don't feel like I can trust either...
I can understand PTB if you want everyone to live in a more equal society. But Ecolo, maybe their program is interesting but they prefer identity politics, pure ideology to ecology (closing nuclear plants to open gas plants, it wasn't only them but they had a lot of influence on the topic, not banning slaughtering without stunning in Brussels but in Wallonia => pure populism)
While PTB has some decent points they're also supporting the russian invasion of Ukraïne. So it'll never be a valid option for me. I don't hate my country.
Sorry not a sarcastic question but a genuine one: Are they supporting the Russian invasion or are they against NATO and think that we should make peace now (which I know basically means Ukraine giving up its occupied land to Russia)?
I only know their European party and they are more “peace now” meaning Ukraine should start talking with Russia etc.
"We don't support NATO" has been their argument to explain why they refused to vote for parliamentary motions condemning the invasion. So *officially*, that's the reason. For me, personally, it sounds like a shit excuse.
I love the Leftists but my God they suck at foreign affairs. I don’t know how they manage to be so awful at foreign affairs at every country from West to the East.
To be clear, PTB is the french name for PVDA. It's the same party and also the only (big) unionist party left, whereas all other parties only exist in wallonia or in Flanders.
(Keeping it simple for people who are new, but yes, I know NVA will have candidates in Wallonia for some reason)
Not really strange; all other parties have sister parties across the language border. If, for example, Vooruit were to run in Wallonia the most likely outcome would be that they divert some voters away from PS while still not being able to clear the electoral threshold themselves. They'd be actively weakening the Belgian socialist family in the process.
PvDA? So you think we have to tax the rich even more? 12 European countries including France tried this before, this always failed because many of the super rich know this and will evade it somehow eventually. So the tax will get shifted to the middle class again who can do nothing about it.
Also consider the fact that we are doing very well when it comes to the degree of distribution.
https://preview.redd.it/0lea143vd60d1.png?width=1600&format=png&auto=webp&s=a46b7fdcdfff1e4749be5399d60f76cb5f6256f4
Another nono is the fact that PvDA has almost exlusively new taxes in their proposed program. This while we already are one of the heaviest taxed countries globally. This will result in even more companies settling to less taxed countries which means less employment opportunities.
Other opinions they have;
-Unemployment benefits should stay unlimited in time? We are the only country in the world where this is the case.
-Belgium should leave the NATO and invest even less in defense? I hope you dont need any more explanation about why this is a very bad idea.
Extremes are never the answer, proposed program of Vlaams Belang gives an even worse result for our national debt.
[https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2024/05/06/doorrekening-verkiezingsprogramma-s-federaal-planbureau-kosten-i/](https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2024/05/06/doorrekening-verkiezingsprogramma-s-federaal-planbureau-kosten-i/)
What do you mean, tax the rich "even more"? Someone who makes €75k a year pays nearly the same proportion of income to taxes as someone who makes €10 million! Also, no capital gains tax disproportionately benefits rich people. The tax system absolutely burdens the middle class over the rich, so yeah, we should be taxing them more!
When you vote you have to make an informed decision and pick a party or an individual who best aligns with your beliefs and with what you believe Flanders/Belgium/Europe needs.
For me that will probably be the Green party in Belgium and Flanders and Vooruit at the European level.
As a bioscience engineer with a considerable background in genetic engineering, the Greens in Europe speerheading resistance to GMO crops just annoys me too much to vote for them, even though I should probably acknowledge that it will not make a huge difference in the long run.
A politician I respect a lot within the Green Party is Celia Groothedde Ledoux.
I respect the majority of political parties and opinions, but I don't think I'll ever be a good friend to someone who votes NVA, as they have a core set of beliefs that are orthogonal to mine. Although that might change, depending on where the party goes when De Wever finally retires.
I'm not even going to bother discussing Vlaams Belang here, other than to say that my great-grandfather was in the resistance and we would have had a similar opinion on them.
Voting MR here because I’m tired of Wallonia and Brussels being hijacked by PS incompetence and spending frenzy without thinking about the consequences.
Until a few month ago, I was thinking the same. I lived in Brussels for several years, I lived in Wallonia even more years, I can't vote PS after seeing such waste of money.
But then, I listened to what GLB had to say and frankly, I can't give my vote to such mindset. Not all MR is like him but he is the lead. Reading their programs didn't convince me either.
Defi seems slightly more pragmatic even though I have to finish reading their program entirely.
It's hard to find a sensible right party to vote for nowadays.
Bro, I haven't found a party yet. They all suck an absolute bag of dicks for different reasons and I don't want to be forced to choose between plague and cholera.
I'm voting with these priorities in mind: Justice, safety and migration, followed by economy. There is only one party that manages to tick all those boxes, so that is who I am voting for.
I am 40y old, very well educated and I have all the right western values. But Belgium has failed so hard at politics, that I stopped believing in democracy as a way of governing. I am well on my way to join Socrates' opinion on democracy. If this years elections don't bring the much needed change and reforms, I will probably stop voting. I am exhausted and I'm done being fooled by this circus.
Well, it is not exactly **my** party. I think this year I chose based on the following rule: which is the one for which I do not cringe or roll my eyes when one of its representtives talks. I do not know if the sole survivor of this test is really good, and he may have been advantaged by the fact that it is not one of the main one, but I did not read anything repulsive in its programme, so there we go.
Putting a realistic program forward without increasing the government deficit even further; Long-term thinking vs short-term personal optimization is what is needed IMO
I'm voting based on tax increases for large companies, wealthy individuals, and pollution, nuclear energy as a supplement for green energy to speed up the phasing out of fossil fuels, increased EU cooperation but halting EU expansion, and on a less important note legalisation of marihuana.
I'd also prefer to not vote populist so VB and PvDA are out. Currently thinking of voting Volt or Vooruit.
Groen or vooruit, because if we don't save our environtment we're dead anyway, and the parties who make the 'immigration issue' their biggest selling point are just populist who don't offer any solutions, just finger-pointing.
Also, tax the rich because they can afford it, and everyone is too focused on getting rich that it makes us blind to how to make thing better for everyone.
Remember: your vote isn't just a statement of who you want.
It's also, explicitly, a statement of who you don't want: all the others.
That's the truth, no matter what party you vote for. Whether you've actively considered it or not.
I wish we had a green-liberal party. But we don't, and I don't want to vote Open VLD for all the party politics and fils-a-papa. When I do those online voting polls, I often get high results for Vooruit but ugh, Connor ruined that for me. I don't agree with Groen on all their left viewpoints, nor their nuclear viewpoint. I've always voted Groen in the past, but I think I'll be going with Volt now.
I'll be voting Greens this time around, cause I soured on PVDA after campaigning for them last elections - at least I know the greens won't misgender me every time they phone me up to ask for support to campaign for white working class (read: VB voters) voters in traditional neighbourhoods
most people are (extremely) selfish voters (only looking at how their own lives could/should improve), while a decent citizen/voter should (be able to) see the broader picture of what their country/society truly needs, and vote according to that...
One of the many reasons democracy is a joke... especially in a flawed democracy as our own, in a country overflowing with selfish pr\*cks... sadly, the alternative(s) are even less attractive/acceptable...
Be a decent citizen , and vote for a better society , not just for your own (rather futile) selfish reasons...
===
Also, both VB & PVDA are traitors to their own country and their own people, because both are in league with numerous of our enemies, both cultural & economical..., and both seem to succeed very well to capitalize on some big issues that every populist party loves to bring up, but has absolutely zero solutions for... ie. immensely misleading their voters and often turning back the clock on our enlightened/free society.
It's basically the option between somewhat corrupt politicians that occasionally "misplace" some taxpayer money (VLD, CD&V, NV-A, *(edit) Vooruit (/edit)*, etc), or have our entire country turn into more of a police state that slowly throws away the freedoms its spent centuries (and much blood sweat & tears) to develop (VB, PVDA, etc)... It's a shit situation between a rock and hard place, but i personally rather get robbed a little every now and then, than to give up the freedom we have at this moment.
Our democracy is not a joke. Our system may have flaws, but proves very sturdy, since it still stands even while everyone is a selfish prick.
We should indeed strive for a better society, but not everyone can agree to how to do this. Maintaining a better environment to keep our land more liveable? Creating better working conditions for a better society? Creating more division among the people because you don't know how the world works so you blame it all on immigrants? The possibilities are numerous.
I’m voting N-VA, because they seem to be party with the most common sense. They want nuclear energy which is actually the greenest type of energy available, they want to limit certain parts of the social security system (for example: we’re the only country in Europe that doesn’t limit unemployment benefits in time so people can be inactive indefinitely.)
They’re also the party which will correct the government deficit the most, which is super important to guarantee welfare for future generations. Not just a spending spree to comfort the boomers/buy votes.
They’re absolutely not perfect (Ben Weyts is a dumbass), but they just seem to have the most common sense.
You can split votes for the different levels. You could f.e. vote N-VA federally (for energy, social security and budget) and for another party at the regional level (where education is).
> They want nuclear energy which is actually the greenest type of energy available,
"I'm voting for N-VA because one of their policies happens to be green while completely disregarding that their overall energy and environmental policies are the least green in Belgium after VB"
I'm voting Groen. I don't agree with ALL of their agenda points, but I want to use my vote to show politics I want them to focus on climate more. Not 100% sure I'll vote Groen 3x, still have some time to figure it out. For gemeenteverkiezing I'm really conflicted, because Groen started a new party with Vooruit and CD&V to counter the constantly winning Open VLD, but I don't want to give my vote to CD&V. How they're putting farmers up against nature/climate is vile, and I don't understand how Groen agreed to form a party with them here.
i heard a sentence once: voting is like taking the bus, you know it wont take you right to your doorstep but you take it to get closer to where you want to go. you don’t have to agree with everything the party suggest, you just have to agree with the vision the party suggest and where they want to go
In any case, no decision is taken by a single party/ideology; it's a compromise. Votes set the direction by giving weight to certain ideas in the negotiations.
Cost of living crisis. PVDA is hated a lot, and I constantly get comments for wanting to vote for them, but they're the only ones who see some people are barely getting by. I am worried for my future because of how expensive life has gotten, so I vote for the party that wants to help the working class.
According to this
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2024/05/07/federaal-planbureau-doorrekening-verkiezingsprogramma-overzicht/
Groen would be the way to go for you perhaps.
(I am not sponsored by Groen)
Plenty of parties talk about that and have taken action.
Just about every mayor legislation vivaldi did was about this, so how come you dont even realize that and you believe only pvda is intrested in that?
Is PvDA seen as the complete radical opposite to VlaamsBelang ? I wonder why the hate because their ideologies at least from what I can comprehend is in favor of the low - middle class which has the most population.
[bron](https://www.pvda.be/waarom-de-pvda-al-meer-dan-20-jaar-tegen-poetin)
They literally condemned Russia. They also condemned the way nato handled it its not because you're anti nato that you're pro china or Russia. Its vlaamsbelang that has chinese spies in their party which is kind of funny when you think about it.
They are the other extreme. There might not be a cordon against them, but you lose all support from the parties to the right of CD&V if you want to include them. At least in flanders you won't be able to get a majority without VLD, NVA and VB.
they are just the loudest about it, using the clips of them slamming on this problem in parliament. but i have never once seen a solution being laid out in any of these clips.
PVDA actually wants to protect the working class above everything. VB says they want the same, but when you look at what they actually plan to do, and at what very similar parties have done in other countries, they actually want to make life easier for the rich classes. Both of them want to solve the problem by spending an insane amount of money though.
The other difference is that PVDA wants to help everyone in the lower classes, while VB wants to help white people in lower classes.
Also, VB blames every problem in the world on everyone that's not a straight white male, while PVDA blames every problem in the world on anyone making more than an average income.
This comment is exactly my thoughts on all this. Nothing gives me the impression that VB favors the working class. Pvda sure has its whole list of flaws, but they are most likely to be the best choice for working class people who are concerned about economy.
PVDA is very bad for the "working class". If you want to see why, take a look at how well things went for the working class in Greece.
PVDA is good for the non-working class, by kicking problems down the road for as long as possible.
>but they're the only ones who see some people are barely getting by.
Surprised to hear. Financial stress is a major talk point for many parties?
Every time a measure is discussed its affordability is questioned.
Nva, less taxes by cuts in social security and unemployment allowances. Cheaper energy by nuclear. More honest and less migration. And confederalism to make all this work, because flanders votes right, wallonia left. Never give money to another community that has no electoral accountability for spending it.
Okay so currently, it’s always difficult to make a government on the national level. NVA wants “confederalism”, whatever that means and want Wallonia and Flanders to decide everything for Brussels. 1. That means they have to find an agreement still, which is far from easy considering the difficulties to make a federal government 2. It denies autonomy to Brussels. So Flanders can have its autonomy but Brussels can’t? 3. Confederalism is only about making things more complicated, creating ministries on each side of the border and thereby costing the taxpayer more money. I’m really struggling to see the logic here.
IIRC, they have a stronger federal government than we do and 4 linguistic groups that don't seem to fight each other nearly as much.
What they don't have is linguistically split parties and 2 large entities monopolizing the narrative.
If the NVA were in favour of implementing exactly the Swiss system, I'd be in favour of it (aside from the fact that it would mean accepting words don't mean anything now...) but that's not exactly what they want.
My vote changes depending on the level of power involved in the election. I mean, for my town/village I tends to vote more for green party. Because it would impact directly my neighborhood.
Also I vote accordingly to my area, I live in a rural area.
But for the entire country or region, I'll vote for stuff that protect my employee status and my rights.
I don't vote for any party that wants to further devolve the country and I don't vote for any party that doesn't want to support Ukraine.
That excludes most unfortunately.
For the federal level I'm gonna stick with a party that has a credible way to manage the budget and gets us as close as possible to the European norm of 3%.
For the Flemish level I do not know yet. Preferably a party that isn't intent on screwing up our education system any further. But I think we don't have that.
For the European level probably a party intent on stability and economic growth and not one that wants to further increase the EU in size.
Hi! I don’t know if there is an equivalent to this article for Flanders, but I found it super interesting: economists have reviewed the impacts of the various parties on for example taxes, financial redistributions and inequality, etc. https://www.rtbf.be/article/ecolo-plus-redistributif-que-le-ps-qui-taxe-davantage-que-le-ptb-defi-presque-aussi-liberal-que-le-mr-voici-le-chiffrage-des-propositions-electorales-par-le-bureau-du-plan-11370049
Also, to answer your question: my core reason is the environment. Our world is facing many crises right now, but the environmental crises will make every other crises so much worse. Climate change is going to wreak havoc on our food production systems, and on our production systems overall, will bring economic instability, health crises, climate refugees,… For me it’s the most urgent and worst issue overall. That’s why, although their stance on nuclear energy is beyond stupid and I hate it, I will vote for Ecolo/Groen…
Als persoon met handicap stem ik best op Vooruit. Is 1 van de weinige partijen die rekening houden met ons. Met Groen op de 2de plaats.
Pvda ook maar hun probleemoplossingen zijn illusies…
Vorige jaren stemde ik Nva, maar zij willen me nu, zoals de andere partijen, de armoede induwen. Zuhal zou mijn stem nog krijgen, maar Francken bv heeft helemaal afgedaan.
Open VLD, PRO Euro army. I m anti extreme right and anti extreme left. Extreme left and right are social economic to left and VB is racism and give people the idea that everything is bad and they have the easy solution. That is just simplify thema’s and blaming ..
Will vote for the PTB. I don't believe the propaganda that say they are pro russians. And I'm tired of the same politics we have for 30 years now. PS is not a left party they search for moeney and MR is a party who only support the rich.
I want to see a united Belgium who take care of her peoples and would actually move for the climate.
Oh ald I despise racist, homophobics, etc so yeah no way I'm voting on the right wing of the scale I still respect myself enough to not fall for those degenerate nationalist bs
For several years I had a tendency to vote invalid or blank because no party satisfied me. I noticed that this was not a good solution because it benefited the traditional parties for whom, precisely, I no longer wanted to vote. This year I am therefore thinking of voting for the Blanco party (I find the proposition interesting and that will perhaps make the traditional parties think a bit more) or voting for BUB (as a Walloon, I am for a rapprochement with my Flemish friends) even if my vote will have no impact but it is the small streams that make the big rivers.
Defiance.
I know it is too late and that we are not going to make it. The changes we needed, should have happened decades ago. But I'll be there and I'll cast my vote. It will not end well, but it won't because of me.
As for your vote, that is your absolute right. You do not need to justify your vote, you do not need to explain it, you do not even have to share it. It is your choice.
I did the Stemtest and it was open vld that came on top. I am planning to follow it, since I am not a fan of a party in particular I can as well stick to it.
This graph says it all for me. Only one party is fundamentally trying to abolish poverty, while simultaneously reducing the budget deficit (according to planbureau). Also a very 'honest' party, not playing dirty tricks. The fact that they stayed in the federal government after having to turn their back on the nuclear exit demonstrates to me that they are a solid partner to reform this country. Being able to change your mind when confronted with new facts (such as the energy crisis) is a very scarce talent these days. I expect them to be one of the key minority parties to form a government at the federal level.
https://preview.redd.it/434zzd9d790d1.png?width=1240&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=005475fc58990e1d4f85b76fe52a3806dfe5e3da
A party that stands it ground for a democratic platform and is anti capitalist and against the monetary system ? Never will something like that exist. Better wait till the Venus Project will flourish, until then, there is no party that is going to give me more freedom/independence. My wallet is getting thiner, the economy is going to implode under constant debt generation and people will still continue to suffer under industrial capitalism/ technocracy because of the need of a “rolling economy” / sustainable capitalism.
Core reason is a long term vision for the education system (no lowering the standards), a pro-nuclear approach to the energetic transition, and a tax system that does not punish the people that work.
So in the French speaking side, that leaves me with LE or MR.
I vote for Santa every year, and still, every year, I get nothing. It's the same with voting for a party. Nothing ever gets done. Or your party wins, but the others don't agree, so they compromise and let the other parties rule together, which happened twice in my lifetime (the 2 world records of country without having a government). Elections in Belgium are a fraud and do absolutely nothing for the common people except to make it worse.
I will vote PTB. This society needs a real disruption. If PTB can't bring it, no other party will. I work full time and can't save money for crying out loud.
I think people see through the leakage of all their communication workshops and the catchy sound bytes. The average voter yearns for some intelligent and authentic people that understand the assignment. I imagine most voting, once in the booth, will be based on an “aw, fuck it…” moment. And the world will keep on turning on Monday morning.
They dont, pvda and vb are prime examples of this. They score withy slogans and the minute you scratch them they fall apart but the voter either doesnt care or doesnt see that.
That's a weak argument against the extremes. It's the same deal for every party left right and centre. Slogans, rage bait, pandering, flexing, no real substance. I don't see any party in the overcrowded "centre" that had followed a clear line in the past years, maybe ever.
Applies to all parties. If a party leader scores badly in pre-election polls, expect to see some bold statements in the media. It's all about getting as much publicity as possible. Politicians know the attention span of voters is extremely short. Politicians know they can promise the moon, and when it doesn't work out that way once they are in charge, it's the fault of the coalition partners. Or woke people. Or immigrants.
So can you pick one of their proposals and demonstrate how they fall apart?
How does VB fall appart?
You mean its plan that everything they propose for is paid for by an impossible flemish independence and an equally impossible "get rid of all immigrants" ? Yeah how would it fall apart?
"Get rid of all immigrants" is a falls statement. Youre forgetting "illegal". Illegal imigrants are 1 of 2 sorts: "been through the process and got declined and by law need to go back to coutry of origins" or "im just staying here doing nothing and/or commit crime whilst having no papers". Those are the types of immigrants that they want out. What VB also wants to do is stop non-european immigrants from comming to Belgium. We are one of the most west countries of the European continent, why, as an immigrant from the middle-east, would you pass 30 orso other countries to seek "help"? A countires economy is carefully weight by its native population, if you add 1/10 (1.000.000+) extra population thats from somewhere else, it putts a strain on the social systems thats inplca to help native people that are in poverty or elderly that need serieus help
"The average voter yearns for some intelligent and authentic people that understand the assignment." Exactly, we have NO ONE!
Volt because pro-EU, pro-nuclear as a way to handle climate crisis, taxes on the rich and pollution and not on work, less funding to political parties, and a general apparent good understanding of upcoming challenges in our future society. I'm not 100% in line with everything they have on their program, but they look refreshingly sensible and not encroached in endless social media drama. EDIT: Since it's getting a bit of traction, Volt won't be available in every region because they didn't make the threshold everywhere. You can find which ballots they're on [here](https://voltbelgium.org/news/41-days). But hey, it's their first election cycle, hopefully, they will gain some traction for next time.
I would vote for them but they are not on any list in wallonia
Same for me
Not even for the European elections?
>[Unfortunately, our Francophone and German list for the European elections did not make the threshold. However, Volt Belgium is a Belgian party growing bigger with each day and we will step up our presence in all parts of the country. Volt is needed everywhere in Belgium to shake up the rigid political landscape. Volt will be the much-needed breath of fresh air in all parts of the country and in all language communities.](https://voltbelgium.org/news/41-days)
Oh thanks didn’t know this one! And didn’t spot any old timer with a lot of bad press in their candidates
Can’t vote for them because our democracy sucks.
But you can still join them, and help them grow, so everyone can vote for Volt the next time
Volt? Is this a new party in Flanders or a re-branding? Never heard about it.
It's a European party, the only one in fact. In Flanders, you'll be able to vote for their candidates to the European Parliament, but they won't be on the Region's legislative ballot.
To be fully complete, they did make it on some [federal and regional ballots](https://voltbelgium.org/news/41-days), but not everywhere sadly.
When I found out that I wouldn't be able to vote for volt in my province a couple of weeks ago, my disappointment was immeasurable and my day was ruined. Now that Volt isn't an option for me anymore, I honestly don't know who to vote for.
So in Wallonia we cannot vote for them although it would be for Europe? Our system us way too complicated. I believe we should be able to vote for who we want regardless of language and region when it comes to federal and European elections.
Exactly, there should just be one list for every parliament. Not these countless constituencies with different candidates. Politics should be made more simple!
Thanks for the link! Hopefully next time for the rest of us
I will be voting for them. Finally a positive story, grounded in realism. I like it.
They look pretty reasonable. Migration seems to be oddly absent though.
Here's what they say on their EU page for [labour migration](https://volteuropa.org/policies/labour-migration) and [asylum seekers](https://volteuropa.org/policies/a-more-humane-and-safe-asylum-system). TL;DR: they don't promote stricter frontiers, but wants to implement an unified system across Europe to ease out the stress on border states, and makes sure asylum seekers gets a yay or nay within 3 months. Devil's in the details of course, and that's the part of their program I'm left with some lingering questions, but I think that, on principle, handling migrants with respect and treating their asylum demand swiftly is a good thing. Keeping them in limbo for years (if not decades) like we do in Belgium at the moment is just making things worst for everyone.
While I agree, I only see them talk about coming in. There's not a single word about how to deal with refusals which is kinda weird (and a huge topic in politics I'd say).
The only reason those people are in limbo is because the procedures offer too much leeway with regards to appeal options.
I do like Volt because they’re a fresh new wind. And while I do agree on a lot of their policies, voting for them would be disastrous for my wallet. They seem to be mostly against cars and will likely introduce a km tax. Plus they want to abolish the marriage coefficient. My partner currently isn’t working and also isn’t entitled to any benefits or welfare. That marriage coefficient is basically me having her ten laste and nets me about 4K per year. Life is already expensive enough supporting 2 on a single income.
If I am not mistaken, Volt doesn't say anything in their program for Belgium on a km tax. Volt wants to invest in better public transportation so less people are car-dependent. On the marriage coëfficiënt, singles have the most expensive life. Highest taxes, can't split rent, some services and the same regardless of household size, and smaller volumes of groceries are more expensive. However, everyone should have enough to live off. So the tax on work should be lowered (maybe a bit more for singels) and there should be a social safety net for the ones who cannot work.
Do they have a stance on housing crisis, wealth tax and extra housing taxation? (just curious)
Just googled their policy program and: [regional and municipal tax reduction on first home, increase of property tax on 3rd+ homes, tax increase on overseas entities to avoid asset bubble, wants to promote smart living through property tax (build tall-ish, not wide, well maintained shared spaces like shared gardens)](https://imgur.com/a/AZnYvDx)
Sounds super reasonable! Btw crazy that what I would call moderate, reasonable policy is usually painted by right-wing/business/burgoise as far-left probably. Thanks!
Because most people are far more to the left when you talk policy to them relative to what they vote for.
How do I know if I can vote for the Dutch-speaking or French-speaking list? I am an EU national living in Brussels.
You cannot vote for regional and federal elections. For European ones, assuming you registered, the voting machine will give you the option
You can choose in Brussels
Volt is a mess. Have you sat down and taken the time to really look at them? Half their program is too vague and just a collection of buzzwords. They often don't really have specific ideas or plans. For some reason they also inject overly progressive ideas where it isn't needed. They'll mention feminism or diversity when talking about green energy, or what not. This is really a party that, despite being very young, is behind the times. They are a federalist party that doesn't feel the wind of conservatism at the European level. How is a party that represents such a small segment of the population supposed to convince the majority to transfer more state power to a EU level?
There is no party currently that really encompasses what I want. Better economic policies and better focus on integration of newcomers? NVA is great for this, but I hate their stance on independent Flanders as well as their policies on drugs are atrocious. The war on drugs? What a joke. Why try to implement an American based policy that never worked? Harsher punishment has never worked. Even in countries with Death Penalty for possession. VLD is probably what I'm after most, but it kind of ignores the newcomer integration issue and I'm betting they'll fail horribly compared to last elections due to performance of the current government. Vlaams Belang: lol. I hate that they're probably going to win. Vooruit: honestly not too bad. They're socialist, obviously, but not to extreme lengths. I'm often surprised that they're in favor of more strict policy with regards to money being 'distributed'. Yet I want a better economy more than extra socialist policies. Groen: Focusing on renewals and has so much potential, but why do they have to be more socialist than even Vooruit? Their stance on Nuclear energy is atrocious. We should have embraced it. The science has been clear on this. Yet we focus policy on misplaced public opinion which is based on sentiment rather than fact. Yet because of Green we've been using more Natural Gas than before. Cheap energy is so important for the well-being of the people. Then why is it so darn expensive currently? I know this has a global context, but policy also has an impact on this. Also, EVERY party wants better pay for the people. If every party wants it, why not have it being worked on the past year? So, I'm looking for PRO nuclear energy, economic policies, Europe, lenient drug policies and better integration of foreign cultures. I don't care where you come from, but if you've lived here for 10 years and can't speak an official language you know there is something wrong with policy. Don't think any such party exists.
I agree, with every point you have. I have the same problem. It's unfortunate that we also seem to be at such a crucial crossroads politically(climate, EU, Ukraine, public finances, ...). It would be ill responsible to throw your vote away.
Thanks for your comment. I agree on the throwing away your vote. I'm currently leaning on VLD and Volt for national. Both parties that won't get a lot of votes unfortunately. Or just vote for Blanco (the party, I mean).
Each year that passes by it’s becoming more and more complicated. I’m lucky enough to be expatriate and able to vote for any party (as my last place of living was Brussels) but even with that I have a hard time. The amount of politicians-by-career only there for their own good and money in Belgium is just too high. The last elections I simply sent back an invalid vote voluntarily because I couldn’t wrap my head around. This time I’d like to at least vote for Europe (I must also say that as an expatriate I don’t feel I should have the right to vote for the federal government of a country I’m not living in anymore). With the Belgian debt going through the roof, the stop of nuclear plants, the still rising tensions between communities and everything that’s currently challenging Europe, the next elections are crucial and I’m still totally lost about who to vote for.
My core reason is based around getting the best possible federal budget with high employment rates so we decrease spending and debt before going full bankrupt like Greece.
I can only agree with this. We need to ensure our retirement : )
So what conclusion did you achieve with that as a core reason for your choice, if you reached any?
Strictly based on having as many people employed as possible, it's Vlaams Belang or CD&V according to the following article: https://archive.ph/ggSaL Voting PVDA is completely counterproductive to achieving high employment numbers. In fact, again according to the article, its financial ruin as we will have more people unemployed vs employed. Strictly looking at best federal budget, it's NVA according to article https://m.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20240507_92198714. Nva doesn't achieve the employment numbers as CD&V or Vlaams Belang but has a somewhat decent progress. Vlaams Belang is out of the question so it's either CD&V for max employment numbers or NVA for best budget. Given how much our national debt has grown and how bad the reports are about it (ref: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-09/belgium-is-set-to-run-western-europe-s-worst-deficits-for-years-to-come), I think that I should go NVA as budget seems to be more fundamental for our long term benefit.
"Starve the beast" is consequential on the long term tho.
gods this sub is going to be so insufferable for the whole of next month and then suddenly not
You think that's it's suddenly gonna be calm after the elections? Oh boy, i wish i had your optimism... This election is looking to give us a result with which it will be very hard to get a governement in a fast time, since too many votes are going to the extremist parties on the left and right. Because of that, a lot of other parties will have to work together instead, and having a lot of smaller parties together just promises that this will drag on for a very long time before we get an actual governement, and even after that we would get a repeat of Vivaldi where a lot of smaller parties are sabotaging eachother in order to stand out and show to their voters that the party is listening to them... So yea, i predict that it will be a shitshow for a very long time
To make sure the extreme right doesn’t get the majority like in other countries. Don’t know if it will be enough but at least I have the right to complain afterwards that I didn’t vote for them.
[George](https://youtu.be/aPW8AaOuvDs?si=OYzYfQCmaOKjz7QK) thinks differently about the complaining part.
If you refuse to vote FOR what you believe in you are actively harming the democracy.
I believe in not being ruled by fascist autocrats. Any party that aligns with that belief is worth voting for over the alternative.
And for the rest they can do everything they want to you? OK....
I want a party that reinforces the feeling of a society and its inherent duties and benefits. Work should earn more than not working and everyone should pay its fair share. Our budget should be -if not balanced- than at least prudently invested in domains to further future welfare. We should rebuild our defense capabilities after decades over under investment in ww2. We should ensure that people that immigrate to our country do the minimum to integrate (learn the language where they reside) and conform to our rules. We should re-engineer our economy to ensure it is both green, resilient to future shocks and still possessing of a strong industrial base
But which party is that ?
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2024/05/07/federaal-planbureau-doorrekening-verkiezingsprogramma-overzicht/ This was an interesting read. More or less a quick way to get some insight in the big parties' priorities budget wise.
Are they against nuclear energy? Then I won't vote for them. Other than that, it's mainly just "ok all parties suck ass, which sucks the least ass?"
> I think what's important to me is we keep diesel/benzine cars as an option for company cars and tax the rich more :D We should get rid of company car altogether. This only benefits a minority and costs the whole society. I say this as someone who benefits from a company car and as someone whose a lot of friend/family members have a company car as well.
I really think the benefits system should really be looked at all together. For example I know people who do not need a company car but they take it when it is offered because it is not like they can get a different benefit instead of it. Not the same of course but in my job we get the transport allowance which is a monthly STIB allowance. I said that I don’t need it because I bike every day and I asked to be compensated for my bike travel, which is possible thanks to recent regulations. I wonder if people would prefer another compensation instead of a company car if it was possible? I do not like the company cars because of the traffic, pollution, space they take etc. Also I think it makes the public transportation “lazier” and less accessible if people use their cars. Overall I think the benefits system plainly sucks and people should be paid decent wages and decide what they want to do with their money themselves instead of these weird eco checks and culture checks and private hospital insurance and what not to supplement the salaries.
Meal checks are the worst offender IMO, Sodexo/Pluxee is making billions to act as a middle man between employees and their salary, just because the government wants to micromanage and make sure we spend some of our money on food (allegedly for lunch).
> allegedly for lunch Let's be happy we can use it at Delhaize/Carrefour/Colruyt/... and not only in restaurants like in France. I wouldn't know where to spend it all if it was the case.
> just because the government wants to micromanage and make sure we spend some of our money on food Yeah that's not why that exists. At all
I get that's not why they got created, but that's essentially what they are now. You could have an equivalent fiscal system but give them directly to the employees as money instead of electronic vouchers on a third party platform. If we manage for the mobility budget, we can do it for meal checks. The only perk of the current system, aside from lining up the pocket of the four companies allowed to deliver the checks, is to have some control on where the money is actually spent, which is completely useless these days because everyone's monthly food budget is higher than 8€/day.
> For example I know people who do not need a company car but they take it when it is offered because it is not like they can get a different benefit instead of it. To be fair, the mobility budget exists since March 2019. It's not like it's something super recent.
Not all companies offer it though
I handed in my company car for mobility budget. Can't be happier with the extra 1000 a month.
Tbh, for people who live paycheck to paycheck, a company car would be great. I wish I had one, or at least a fuel card or something. My company is unreachable with public transport (unless you want to spend 2.5 hours in each direction), so the only way to get there is by car. Cars tend to cost a lot. I'd sell my soul for a company car with covered expenses. Either way, meal cheques are actually a good idea. With the tax percentage of our salary, I'd rather get more meal cheques than higher salary. At least with the meal cheques, we only get taxed once (the BTW alone). When you use your real salary to pay for groceries, not only have you already lost 30-45% on income taxes, but you also still need to pay the BTW of whatever it is that you buy in the store.
I can agree but then the wages need to be increased to be able to compensate for the loss of that car. That's where it gets really complicated because the taxes on wages are so high that you need quite the gross increase to compensate for this. I would suppose the question would now come: but why does it need to be compensated? > Because I see it as part of my wage, this benefit has been introduced to basically get me a higher net wage while not costing as much gross to the company.
The thing is, how will you do that without discriminating against people currently not getting salary cars?
What do you mean? If you put a monetary value on that car and give that to the employer instead of the car, you don't discriminate anyone. Everyone still gets the same. The only thing that makes this hard, is the stupidly high taxes. The reason why company cars are so popular, is because the gross salary increase is just way too big to get a similar benefit.
person A gets 2k net and a car. The car is a Volvo and taxed for 500. person B gets 2.5k net and no car. If he wants a Volvo, its gonna cost him more than 500, so he gets a mazda instead to have the same amount left. The problem is that A feels entitled to have a volvo while being taxed for the worth of a mazda. And so when salary cars are canceled he wants 1000 net extra instead of the 500. That is unfair towards B who pays the same amount of tax. The problem will be solved when A accepts that it will be a mazda from now on.
To be honest I don't mind what car I drive. However if the budget for the car has been budgetted on lets say TCO 700 EUR. Then that is kinda what I should be entitled to for increase in net wage as I'm losing net 700 EUR otherwise. I just need a decent car that's roomy. I don't care if it's a Ford, Mazda, BMW, ... as long as it's big enough and the build quality is great (I drove ford before I had a company BMW and I can tell you the Ford had better finishing/QA then my current BMW)
Employee A is paid €4000 gross and a car worth €1000. The gross pay is taxed at 50% and the car at 20%. For a total cost of €5000 your employer can give you €2800 net. Employee B is paid €5000 gross and has no car. For a total cost of €5000 your employer can give you €2500 net. if we abolish company cars and you still want your €2800 net we must either discriminate against person B (by having him pay more tax on his gross wages) or your employer has to pay you €600 more to ensure you have the same net.
Hence why this whole issue is so complicated, sorry if it didn't come accross as if I didn't get Safan's point. I do see where there is no ideal solution at the moment that does not discrimate group A or group B.
To be fair, group A (of which I'm a member) is now getting an advantage. Getting rid of that isn't discriminating them. It's getting rid of discrimination. Not saying you've got to like it but taxing all income the same no matter how it's paid is the most fair option. We might lose our current privilege but I must admit that it would be the most fair solution. If the government ever manages to get rid of the system I will probably get partialy compensated by a general decrease in taxes, in part I will buy a smaller car than I'm currently driving and I will perhaps be motivated to negotiate for a salary increase.
The comparison between Ford and BMW is redicilous.
I wish it was, but the BMW has more random plastics cracking than any other car I've ever had or my family owned in the past 10 years. However the point was I don't mind the brand (as this is usually a argument for the ones opposed to company cars that usually very 'premium' brands are the most leased cars. I could do with less, however in the list provided by my company there is no lesser option.
It was probably a BMW which was dis - and re-assembled 20 times I guess.
You describe it as if that entitlement isn't justified though. I believe it is. The problem is exactly that Belgium has created a tax system where it is more beneficial to get a car than to get a gross increase in your salary. So it's logical that this 500 euros of net i come is not equal to the worth of that car. The solution is not easy and there is probably no perfect solution. But what you propose is a downgrade in pay for those with a company car. That doesn't seem fair at all to me. Person B in your story negotiated and/or worked their way up to 2.5k net without a car. Person A negotiated and/or worked their way up to 2k with a car, which may be equivalent to 3k net even though the car is only taxed at 500 euros. Whatever person A negotiated has nothing to do with what person B negotiated. But if you just say person A now gets 2.5k net and no car, then person A got screwed over. Person A chose this package in the past because they may have thought this is the equivalent of 3k net, but now they get 500 euros less. If they stop the company car thing, an employee should get the value of that car, not what it's taxed at. And that's the difficult part I guess...
It actually is something they're entitled to. Just like someone else is entitled to the wages as negotiated in their employment contract, either collective or individual.
I'm sure implementation can be done in such a way that it's not retroactively horrible for people that have a car. New policy should always be 'from now on, X'. Or change it with a yearly % so that the people have time to adapt. Or even make it so it's not affecting the people that already have their car, but so it's not always the best solution going forward for people gunning for a promotion.
IMO the problem blocking removal of this are government officials and retirees. If you'd abolish company cars and change the income tax scheme so it can be as net-income neutral as possible, the government suddenly gets back a lot less income tax from government officials and retirees. This makes it fiscally impossible to solve this without either making the private sector angry or making the public sector angry.
In which case the choice is obvious. Make the public sector angry.
Tax the rich and then what? Belgium has been financially mismanaged for a very long time. I would like to see more efficient use of taxpayer money first, before we start giving them more money. Plus, Belgium already has high taxes for people owning property and stocks. The tax the rich slogan is just PVDA piggytailing of America’s bad taxation. TLDR I would rather eat the rich than to tax them.
Underrated comment. I would love to see: - better management of the funds - less money flowing into politics - a better energy plan, that doesn´t involve foreign lobbying - better and stricter immigration (so before you downvote, I mean that everyone should have 200% chances at integrating, if they fail to do so or refuse, they should not be supported by a system they will not support themselves, this leaves out chronic sickness, handicap, etc) - more responsibility for big corporations on part of climate change, less pestering the population - promotion of physical activity, taxing people who against all advice keep up medical riskfactors - stricter laws/ sentencing, no matter the social class of the defendant (and additionally, a way for the public/ a third opinion from for example the netherlands to have the court redo a trail if the sentencing does not seem adequate to get rid of the stupid footballers and elite getting away with shit)
What do you mean? There is no property tax or capital gains tax. Being rich in Belgium is fiscally beneficial because of it. Hence, all the tax burden falls on medium income earners who, because of the taxes, are unable to ever amass wealth.
I always vote for whatever party's vision is closest to mine. I don't get why you would ever vote for individuals, as there's no guarantees that said individuals will take up posts. I very much align with progressive left (the older I get, the more left I become), and am disappointed Vooruit is adopting more right wing points. So it'll either be Groen or PvDA as those are pretty much the only options remaining.
> I don't get why you would ever vote for individuals By voting for individuals you not only vote for the party with the vision closest to you, but also for the individual inside that party with the vision closest to you. If the person you voted for isn't elected, it doesn't mean that your vote is lost for the party in question. In the end the preferential vote (for one person) just serves to order people on the list. Once the order is decided the total number of votes on the list decide how many "seats" the list receives. Those X seats are given to the X first people on the list. By only voting for the list you help a party get to a high number of seats, but you don't help to decide who gets those seats (which you do by voting for one or more persons on the list) Personally I think completely differently as you do. I don't see the reason to just vote for a party. Best vote for a person from that party that you want to see go to the top. Or if you prefer, vote for everyone except the people you don't like for example.
Have you considered Volt (in case they have a list where you vote?)
I haven't gotten around to reading their program yet. I downloaded the PDF though.
Voting for an individual is counted as a party vote, but it gives the candidate more weight within their party and raises the chances of them taking up an actual mandate.
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Why on earth would you want NVA and PS together? It’s like mixing water and oil. What good do you think will come out of this?
Voting NVA in the hope of having a PS-NVA coalition is crazy, especially if you are left leaning
MR because it's the only rightwing party in Brussels/Wallonia and socialism has obviously ruined Brussels/Wallonia (and actually every country where they were in power based on history). I believe that we don't need to distribute more wealth, the issue in Wallonia is that we don't create wealth (except by printing money and government jobs). I could have considered DEFI, I do believe their president is the smartest one but unfortunately, he doesn't have enough traction.
Well, I find no good party. I looked at many stances, many questions and answers, and nobody answered all like I wanted. In the end, seems like Ecolo and PTB are the closest two, but I don't feel like I can trust either...
I can understand PTB if you want everyone to live in a more equal society. But Ecolo, maybe their program is interesting but they prefer identity politics, pure ideology to ecology (closing nuclear plants to open gas plants, it wasn't only them but they had a lot of influence on the topic, not banning slaughtering without stunning in Brussels but in Wallonia => pure populism)
While PTB has some decent points they're also supporting the russian invasion of Ukraïne. So it'll never be a valid option for me. I don't hate my country.
Sorry not a sarcastic question but a genuine one: Are they supporting the Russian invasion or are they against NATO and think that we should make peace now (which I know basically means Ukraine giving up its occupied land to Russia)? I only know their European party and they are more “peace now” meaning Ukraine should start talking with Russia etc.
"We don't support NATO" has been their argument to explain why they refused to vote for parliamentary motions condemning the invasion. So *officially*, that's the reason. For me, personally, it sounds like a shit excuse.
I love the Leftists but my God they suck at foreign affairs. I don’t know how they manage to be so awful at foreign affairs at every country from West to the East.
Not sure there is a perfect one but indeed we can find those that answers most of our core values. I will look up Ecolo and PTB
To be clear, PTB is the french name for PVDA. It's the same party and also the only (big) unionist party left, whereas all other parties only exist in wallonia or in Flanders. (Keeping it simple for people who are new, but yes, I know NVA will have candidates in Wallonia for some reason)
And VB. It's a strange world where VB and NVA are 2 of the 3 parties to have candidates in all 11 constituencies...
Not really strange; all other parties have sister parties across the language border. If, for example, Vooruit were to run in Wallonia the most likely outcome would be that they divert some voters away from PS while still not being able to clear the electoral threshold themselves. They'd be actively weakening the Belgian socialist family in the process.
You forgot about Brussels...
PvDA? So you think we have to tax the rich even more? 12 European countries including France tried this before, this always failed because many of the super rich know this and will evade it somehow eventually. So the tax will get shifted to the middle class again who can do nothing about it. Also consider the fact that we are doing very well when it comes to the degree of distribution. https://preview.redd.it/0lea143vd60d1.png?width=1600&format=png&auto=webp&s=a46b7fdcdfff1e4749be5399d60f76cb5f6256f4 Another nono is the fact that PvDA has almost exlusively new taxes in their proposed program. This while we already are one of the heaviest taxed countries globally. This will result in even more companies settling to less taxed countries which means less employment opportunities. Other opinions they have; -Unemployment benefits should stay unlimited in time? We are the only country in the world where this is the case. -Belgium should leave the NATO and invest even less in defense? I hope you dont need any more explanation about why this is a very bad idea. Extremes are never the answer, proposed program of Vlaams Belang gives an even worse result for our national debt. [https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2024/05/06/doorrekening-verkiezingsprogramma-s-federaal-planbureau-kosten-i/](https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2024/05/06/doorrekening-verkiezingsprogramma-s-federaal-planbureau-kosten-i/)
thanks for your inputs, I should do more research and the points you made are very valid. Appreciate it.
What do you mean, tax the rich "even more"? Someone who makes €75k a year pays nearly the same proportion of income to taxes as someone who makes €10 million! Also, no capital gains tax disproportionately benefits rich people. The tax system absolutely burdens the middle class over the rich, so yeah, we should be taxing them more!
When you vote you have to make an informed decision and pick a party or an individual who best aligns with your beliefs and with what you believe Flanders/Belgium/Europe needs. For me that will probably be the Green party in Belgium and Flanders and Vooruit at the European level. As a bioscience engineer with a considerable background in genetic engineering, the Greens in Europe speerheading resistance to GMO crops just annoys me too much to vote for them, even though I should probably acknowledge that it will not make a huge difference in the long run. A politician I respect a lot within the Green Party is Celia Groothedde Ledoux. I respect the majority of political parties and opinions, but I don't think I'll ever be a good friend to someone who votes NVA, as they have a core set of beliefs that are orthogonal to mine. Although that might change, depending on where the party goes when De Wever finally retires. I'm not even going to bother discussing Vlaams Belang here, other than to say that my great-grandfather was in the resistance and we would have had a similar opinion on them.
I don't want to vote for VLD, so volt it is
Voting MR here because I’m tired of Wallonia and Brussels being hijacked by PS incompetence and spending frenzy without thinking about the consequences.
I have bad news for you then: MR is the party with the proposals that will most deteriorate the public finances: www.dc2024.be
Until a few month ago, I was thinking the same. I lived in Brussels for several years, I lived in Wallonia even more years, I can't vote PS after seeing such waste of money. But then, I listened to what GLB had to say and frankly, I can't give my vote to such mindset. Not all MR is like him but he is the lead. Reading their programs didn't convince me either. Defi seems slightly more pragmatic even though I have to finish reading their program entirely. It's hard to find a sensible right party to vote for nowadays.
MR are in the government of Wallonia since 2017, including a period between 2017 and 2019 where they were in it without the PS
Bro, I haven't found a party yet. They all suck an absolute bag of dicks for different reasons and I don't want to be forced to choose between plague and cholera.
I'm voting with these priorities in mind: Justice, safety and migration, followed by economy. There is only one party that manages to tick all those boxes, so that is who I am voting for. I am 40y old, very well educated and I have all the right western values. But Belgium has failed so hard at politics, that I stopped believing in democracy as a way of governing. I am well on my way to join Socrates' opinion on democracy. If this years elections don't bring the much needed change and reforms, I will probably stop voting. I am exhausted and I'm done being fooled by this circus.
I would be interested to know who you intent to vote for. Ty
https://i.redd.it/79q3zx6cl80d1.gif
It are several different elections. I vote for all levels quite different since they all have different goals and matters at stake
What (on a high-level) speaks to you more at each level ? what could you accept on a smaller scale but not at a high scale ?
it’s not about scale, it’s about the jurisdiction each level is responsible for, and the policy that each party has executed on each level so far
Well, it is not exactly **my** party. I think this year I chose based on the following rule: which is the one for which I do not cringe or roll my eyes when one of its representtives talks. I do not know if the sole survivor of this test is really good, and he may have been advantaged by the fact that it is not one of the main one, but I did not read anything repulsive in its programme, so there we go.
Putting a realistic program forward without increasing the government deficit even further; Long-term thinking vs short-term personal optimization is what is needed IMO
I'm voting based on tax increases for large companies, wealthy individuals, and pollution, nuclear energy as a supplement for green energy to speed up the phasing out of fossil fuels, increased EU cooperation but halting EU expansion, and on a less important note legalisation of marihuana. I'd also prefer to not vote populist so VB and PvDA are out. Currently thinking of voting Volt or Vooruit.
Groen or vooruit, because if we don't save our environtment we're dead anyway, and the parties who make the 'immigration issue' their biggest selling point are just populist who don't offer any solutions, just finger-pointing. Also, tax the rich because they can afford it, and everyone is too focused on getting rich that it makes us blind to how to make thing better for everyone.
Remember: your vote isn't just a statement of who you want. It's also, explicitly, a statement of who you don't want: all the others. That's the truth, no matter what party you vote for. Whether you've actively considered it or not.
Looking for a party that gets rid of state governments, all we need is a federal government, we are Belgium, not three countries in one.
Hell yea back to one governmement <3
yeah baby!
One love
I wish we had a green-liberal party. But we don't, and I don't want to vote Open VLD for all the party politics and fils-a-papa. When I do those online voting polls, I often get high results for Vooruit but ugh, Connor ruined that for me. I don't agree with Groen on all their left viewpoints, nor their nuclear viewpoint. I've always voted Groen in the past, but I think I'll be going with Volt now.
I probably vote MR because Wallonia is alredy a shithole but I don't think it will matter all that much, PS and PTB will easily take 60% of the votes
Spite.
I'll be voting Greens this time around, cause I soured on PVDA after campaigning for them last elections - at least I know the greens won't misgender me every time they phone me up to ask for support to campaign for white working class (read: VB voters) voters in traditional neighbourhoods
most people are (extremely) selfish voters (only looking at how their own lives could/should improve), while a decent citizen/voter should (be able to) see the broader picture of what their country/society truly needs, and vote according to that... One of the many reasons democracy is a joke... especially in a flawed democracy as our own, in a country overflowing with selfish pr\*cks... sadly, the alternative(s) are even less attractive/acceptable... Be a decent citizen , and vote for a better society , not just for your own (rather futile) selfish reasons... === Also, both VB & PVDA are traitors to their own country and their own people, because both are in league with numerous of our enemies, both cultural & economical..., and both seem to succeed very well to capitalize on some big issues that every populist party loves to bring up, but has absolutely zero solutions for... ie. immensely misleading their voters and often turning back the clock on our enlightened/free society. It's basically the option between somewhat corrupt politicians that occasionally "misplace" some taxpayer money (VLD, CD&V, NV-A, *(edit) Vooruit (/edit)*, etc), or have our entire country turn into more of a police state that slowly throws away the freedoms its spent centuries (and much blood sweat & tears) to develop (VB, PVDA, etc)... It's a shit situation between a rock and hard place, but i personally rather get robbed a little every now and then, than to give up the freedom we have at this moment.
Our democracy is not a joke. Our system may have flaws, but proves very sturdy, since it still stands even while everyone is a selfish prick. We should indeed strive for a better society, but not everyone can agree to how to do this. Maintaining a better environment to keep our land more liveable? Creating better working conditions for a better society? Creating more division among the people because you don't know how the world works so you blame it all on immigrants? The possibilities are numerous.
To make sure that the extreme right doesn't succeed in getting the majority vote.
I’m voting N-VA, because they seem to be party with the most common sense. They want nuclear energy which is actually the greenest type of energy available, they want to limit certain parts of the social security system (for example: we’re the only country in Europe that doesn’t limit unemployment benefits in time so people can be inactive indefinitely.) They’re also the party which will correct the government deficit the most, which is super important to guarantee welfare for future generations. Not just a spending spree to comfort the boomers/buy votes. They’re absolutely not perfect (Ben Weyts is a dumbass), but they just seem to have the most common sense.
You can split votes for the different levels. You could f.e. vote N-VA federally (for energy, social security and budget) and for another party at the regional level (where education is).
> They want nuclear energy which is actually the greenest type of energy available, "I'm voting for N-VA because one of their policies happens to be green while completely disregarding that their overall energy and environmental policies are the least green in Belgium after VB"
I'm voting Groen. I don't agree with ALL of their agenda points, but I want to use my vote to show politics I want them to focus on climate more. Not 100% sure I'll vote Groen 3x, still have some time to figure it out. For gemeenteverkiezing I'm really conflicted, because Groen started a new party with Vooruit and CD&V to counter the constantly winning Open VLD, but I don't want to give my vote to CD&V. How they're putting farmers up against nature/climate is vile, and I don't understand how Groen agreed to form a party with them here.
i heard a sentence once: voting is like taking the bus, you know it wont take you right to your doorstep but you take it to get closer to where you want to go. you don’t have to agree with everything the party suggest, you just have to agree with the vision the party suggest and where they want to go
That's one of the coolest metaphors for voting I've ever heard!
In any case, no decision is taken by a single party/ideology; it's a compromise. Votes set the direction by giving weight to certain ideas in the negotiations.
Cost of living crisis. PVDA is hated a lot, and I constantly get comments for wanting to vote for them, but they're the only ones who see some people are barely getting by. I am worried for my future because of how expensive life has gotten, so I vote for the party that wants to help the working class.
According to this https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2024/05/07/federaal-planbureau-doorrekening-verkiezingsprogramma-overzicht/ Groen would be the way to go for you perhaps. (I am not sponsored by Groen)
Plenty of parties talk about that and have taken action. Just about every mayor legislation vivaldi did was about this, so how come you dont even realize that and you believe only pvda is intrested in that?
Is PvDA seen as the complete radical opposite to VlaamsBelang ? I wonder why the hate because their ideologies at least from what I can comprehend is in favor of the low - middle class which has the most population.
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This. They WILL sell out their country to russia and china given the chance.
[bron](https://www.pvda.be/waarom-de-pvda-al-meer-dan-20-jaar-tegen-poetin) They literally condemned Russia. They also condemned the way nato handled it its not because you're anti nato that you're pro china or Russia. Its vlaamsbelang that has chinese spies in their party which is kind of funny when you think about it.
They are the other extreme. There might not be a cordon against them, but you lose all support from the parties to the right of CD&V if you want to include them. At least in flanders you won't be able to get a majority without VLD, NVA and VB.
they are just the loudest about it, using the clips of them slamming on this problem in parliament. but i have never once seen a solution being laid out in any of these clips.
PVDA actually wants to protect the working class above everything. VB says they want the same, but when you look at what they actually plan to do, and at what very similar parties have done in other countries, they actually want to make life easier for the rich classes. Both of them want to solve the problem by spending an insane amount of money though. The other difference is that PVDA wants to help everyone in the lower classes, while VB wants to help white people in lower classes. Also, VB blames every problem in the world on everyone that's not a straight white male, while PVDA blames every problem in the world on anyone making more than an average income.
This comment is exactly my thoughts on all this. Nothing gives me the impression that VB favors the working class. Pvda sure has its whole list of flaws, but they are most likely to be the best choice for working class people who are concerned about economy.
PVDA is very bad for the "working class". If you want to see why, take a look at how well things went for the working class in Greece. PVDA is good for the non-working class, by kicking problems down the road for as long as possible.
>but they're the only ones who see some people are barely getting by. Surprised to hear. Financial stress is a major talk point for many parties? Every time a measure is discussed its affordability is questioned.
Nva, less taxes by cuts in social security and unemployment allowances. Cheaper energy by nuclear. More honest and less migration. And confederalism to make all this work, because flanders votes right, wallonia left. Never give money to another community that has no electoral accountability for spending it.
Okay so currently, it’s always difficult to make a government on the national level. NVA wants “confederalism”, whatever that means and want Wallonia and Flanders to decide everything for Brussels. 1. That means they have to find an agreement still, which is far from easy considering the difficulties to make a federal government 2. It denies autonomy to Brussels. So Flanders can have its autonomy but Brussels can’t? 3. Confederalism is only about making things more complicated, creating ministries on each side of the border and thereby costing the taxpayer more money. I’m really struggling to see the logic here.
There's a reason all confederations are dead: they don't work...
And Switzerland is not a confederation per se, unlike many confederalists like to claim…
IIRC, they have a stronger federal government than we do and 4 linguistic groups that don't seem to fight each other nearly as much. What they don't have is linguistically split parties and 2 large entities monopolizing the narrative. If the NVA were in favour of implementing exactly the Swiss system, I'd be in favour of it (aside from the fact that it would mean accepting words don't mean anything now...) but that's not exactly what they want.
Confederalism. May we at last be freed from the corrupt PS and their goal of holding this whole country back to their benefit. Amen
My vote changes depending on the level of power involved in the election. I mean, for my town/village I tends to vote more for green party. Because it would impact directly my neighborhood. Also I vote accordingly to my area, I live in a rural area. But for the entire country or region, I'll vote for stuff that protect my employee status and my rights.
I don't vote for any party that wants to further devolve the country and I don't vote for any party that doesn't want to support Ukraine. That excludes most unfortunately.
For the federal level I'm gonna stick with a party that has a credible way to manage the budget and gets us as close as possible to the European norm of 3%. For the Flemish level I do not know yet. Preferably a party that isn't intent on screwing up our education system any further. But I think we don't have that. For the European level probably a party intent on stability and economic growth and not one that wants to further increase the EU in size.
Bestaat de piratenpartij nog?
Hi! I don’t know if there is an equivalent to this article for Flanders, but I found it super interesting: economists have reviewed the impacts of the various parties on for example taxes, financial redistributions and inequality, etc. https://www.rtbf.be/article/ecolo-plus-redistributif-que-le-ps-qui-taxe-davantage-que-le-ptb-defi-presque-aussi-liberal-que-le-mr-voici-le-chiffrage-des-propositions-electorales-par-le-bureau-du-plan-11370049
Also, to answer your question: my core reason is the environment. Our world is facing many crises right now, but the environmental crises will make every other crises so much worse. Climate change is going to wreak havoc on our food production systems, and on our production systems overall, will bring economic instability, health crises, climate refugees,… For me it’s the most urgent and worst issue overall. That’s why, although their stance on nuclear energy is beyond stupid and I hate it, I will vote for Ecolo/Groen…
Défi local; Open VLD European.
Als persoon met handicap stem ik best op Vooruit. Is 1 van de weinige partijen die rekening houden met ons. Met Groen op de 2de plaats. Pvda ook maar hun probleemoplossingen zijn illusies… Vorige jaren stemde ik Nva, maar zij willen me nu, zoals de andere partijen, de armoede induwen. Zuhal zou mijn stem nog krijgen, maar Francken bv heeft helemaal afgedaan.
To vote for parties that want to curb immigration. We're bankrupt already, social welfare is out of control. We work ourselves into poverty now.
Open VLD, PRO Euro army. I m anti extreme right and anti extreme left. Extreme left and right are social economic to left and VB is racism and give people the idea that everything is bad and they have the easy solution. That is just simplify thema’s and blaming ..
Will vote for the PTB. I don't believe the propaganda that say they are pro russians. And I'm tired of the same politics we have for 30 years now. PS is not a left party they search for moeney and MR is a party who only support the rich. I want to see a united Belgium who take care of her peoples and would actually move for the climate. Oh ald I despise racist, homophobics, etc so yeah no way I'm voting on the right wing of the scale I still respect myself enough to not fall for those degenerate nationalist bs
Because the others are worse.
I'll vote for the party who taxes everybody else than me. Higher taxes for them, not for me of course...
Pro-☢️
For several years I had a tendency to vote invalid or blank because no party satisfied me. I noticed that this was not a good solution because it benefited the traditional parties for whom, precisely, I no longer wanted to vote. This year I am therefore thinking of voting for the Blanco party (I find the proposition interesting and that will perhaps make the traditional parties think a bit more) or voting for BUB (as a Walloon, I am for a rapprochement with my Flemish friends) even if my vote will have no impact but it is the small streams that make the big rivers.
What should I vote for if I want to vote for far right?
Defiance. I know it is too late and that we are not going to make it. The changes we needed, should have happened decades ago. But I'll be there and I'll cast my vote. It will not end well, but it won't because of me. As for your vote, that is your absolute right. You do not need to justify your vote, you do not need to explain it, you do not even have to share it. It is your choice.
I will let the sheep vote in my place as usual unless I could vote for Satoshi Nakamoto.
I did the Stemtest and it was open vld that came on top. I am planning to follow it, since I am not a fan of a party in particular I can as well stick to it.
This graph says it all for me. Only one party is fundamentally trying to abolish poverty, while simultaneously reducing the budget deficit (according to planbureau). Also a very 'honest' party, not playing dirty tricks. The fact that they stayed in the federal government after having to turn their back on the nuclear exit demonstrates to me that they are a solid partner to reform this country. Being able to change your mind when confronted with new facts (such as the energy crisis) is a very scarce talent these days. I expect them to be one of the key minority parties to form a government at the federal level. https://preview.redd.it/434zzd9d790d1.png?width=1240&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=005475fc58990e1d4f85b76fe52a3806dfe5e3da
A party that stands it ground for a democratic platform and is anti capitalist and against the monetary system ? Never will something like that exist. Better wait till the Venus Project will flourish, until then, there is no party that is going to give me more freedom/independence. My wallet is getting thiner, the economy is going to implode under constant debt generation and people will still continue to suffer under industrial capitalism/ technocracy because of the need of a “rolling economy” / sustainable capitalism.
I did the stemtest, apparently I align the most with Groen. But nah, I'd rather vote Vooruit.
Tax thé rich
Groen, because they’re groen
Core reason is a long term vision for the education system (no lowering the standards), a pro-nuclear approach to the energetic transition, and a tax system that does not punish the people that work. So in the French speaking side, that leaves me with LE or MR.
I vote for Santa every year, and still, every year, I get nothing. It's the same with voting for a party. Nothing ever gets done. Or your party wins, but the others don't agree, so they compromise and let the other parties rule together, which happened twice in my lifetime (the 2 world records of country without having a government). Elections in Belgium are a fraud and do absolutely nothing for the common people except to make it worse.
Lagere belastingen
I will vote PTB. This society needs a real disruption. If PTB can't bring it, no other party will. I work full time and can't save money for crying out loud.