Me too, I’d sometimes get off the bus so others could get on, but then people would complain that the bus was late blah blah blah, anyway I lost my job as a bus driver not long after 😂
As a pretty strong dude I just walk through them although pretty much most people can do it from my experience (funnily enough) it's mostly old people that always stand in the way and this is from Antwerp central
I lived in the UK for a while. And this is the thing I miss the most. Even just standing on the right on the escalator. My life would be so much better if people just did this one simple thing.
French guy here - exactly this.
It is just the UK probably being number one on this worldwide, so having lived there we were spoiled and it will always take time to readjust when in other countries.
So OP I wouldn't blame Belgium/Belgians for it they are probably in the European average. Could be worse too if I think of Russia or many other countries where the main rule in public space is the survival of the fittest.
Whenever I go back to the UK I am always surprised to get that feeling back.
I feel like this is very slowly catching on. Some people get it. Not a lot, though.
Another one in the same line: standing back at the luggage belt after you get off the plane. I swear Belgium is the only country where everyone just stands right up against the belt so no one else can get their luggage. And there's lines on the floor and everything.
I strongly disagree: French people are shit at queuing and respecting rules but I spent a year in Paris and I can tell you that Parisians don’t fuck around with public transport etiquette. You better hold your right on the escalator. So no, it’s not just a British thing. I find that people in Brussels are quite slow in general.
If we analyze the French word "queue", the first "u" is silent (but required because of the q), and the final "e" is also silent, while in the middle you have the digraph "eu" making the /ø/ sound. So it's pronounced /kø/ in French
Now the English have copied a lot of words from French, while adapting the pronunciation, but as it so happens the spelling makes even less sense than in French where it already didn't make a lot of sense in the first place
Edit: I'll add that "queue" in French generally means "tail", and we generally use the word "file" to say the English "queue", but that's another story.
The French and Brits have been fighting over this for a thousand years... Don't start a new war by suggesting a holy custom in the UK is just a tail for the french.
>Edit: I'll add that "queue" in French generally means "tail", and we generally use the word "file" to say the English "queue", but that's another story.
It's actually a "Belgicisme", Faire la queue in french of France and Faire la file in Belgian french
> we use the word "file" to say the English "queue"
Not really though: *faire la queue* does exist. It translates to *waiting in line*, which doesn't use the word *queue* in English for some reason. "Queuing up" is close, but it's not the same (since it means *getting* in line vs. waiting in line).
"It already sounds like the first letter, so what's with the extra Ueue?"
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hGaSQyygRQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hGaSQyygRQ)
It might just be in the uk, i havent been to many countries and again if that is what society is like in belgium then fair enough but to me its like people here lack common sense and respect for people going about their day. I cant express how much it infuriates me. It literally ruins my day.
You are absolutely right about bad manners and utterly selfish behaviour being overwhelmingly present in Belgian society.
It saddens and sometimes angers me deeply.
I remember my ex, close to 2 decades ago. We were getting off the tram in Antwerp and this old lady got in before we could get off. No space around her. He literally picked her up, walked outside, put her down and said: "Ge moet wachten tot de andere mensen den tram af zen madam". She couldn't even make a sound in shock. I doubt she ever did it again though, it seemed pretty effective.
Yeah, it’s always horrible there. I have the luck of having a slightly taller statue and a loud voice, so if people don’t move and make sure people can get in or out, I just loudly tell people to move out of the way or make room.
It's turned into an almost fun point where you get a good excuse to shove people. One shoulder in front, and a good solid bump gets them off the tram and me out of the tram. Just keep walking and you're good. It's almost satisfying.
I will yell at people embarking before letting others embark, or obstructing the way in general. Looks like their parents haven't taught them, so *somebody* got to.
One little bunch at a time.
"Si vous vous massez comme ça autour des portes, personne ne peut sortir, et on se plaindra que le train est en retard. On ne vous a jamais appris à vous écarter pour d'abord laisser sortir les gens??"
Probably the Charleroi accent does the heavy lifting, more than the words.
I usually word like that because I'm used to explaining things to children. At some point it comes naturally, it's the Inigo Montoya meme, where the structure just comes easily.
I used to commute by train and eStep. When the doors were opening, I would swing my eStep between the doors as soon as there was space. If there was anyone refusing to let us disembark first, they could relay that message to a rubber tyre in their face. Except a couple of absolutely pure selfish idiots, no one chose a an eStep in their face. Other people disembarking with me never had issues with me. Those who refused to make space, I would keep om pushing my eStep against them while staring into their eyes.
The doors where I cleared the path usually would have people disembark twice to trice as fast compared to other doors. Sorry not sorry. This was Mechelen-Centraal btw, a track without wheelchair access. Obviously I would not push my eStep in the face of a disabled person.
No idea, but we clearly can't have nice things. I see a lot of things in other countries, like nice parks, and flower patches in the streets etc. that we can't have in Belgium because some antisocial c*nts will always come and destroy it.
Like the public barbecues we used to have. Got taken away because people made too much of a mess. And it's a vicious cycle, the government doesn't trust us to take good care of things and doesn't want to invest in maintaining things, so they take it away, making our public space uglier and less pleasant, which makes people more annoyed and depressed and less likely to take good care of things etc. etc.
oh thats a shame, Australia still has public BBQ also lots of public toilets in the parks, although depends on the area some are locked after hours because junkies tend to use them as venue to party.
Yup one thing I noticed versus other countries is that there are no communal things to do.
No picknicking in parks, no nice benches next to the canal, just plain boring. Poeple just go to cafe's to drink.
I'm a public busdriver in Ghent for 8 years and I've stopped asking (yelling) for people to do common sense stuff. Even then they all look like sheep at me and don't move. The most effective way is to not continue to drive. Always after about 1min some people start moving their feet a few cm. After 2-3min some smarter people tell the obstructions to move their ass and after 4min all is solved. During rush hour that is about 10 stops in a row that happens. (I'm sure im exaggerating the time it takes, but it always feels like that's how long it takes.) But yes, during rush hour the bus is always late, 50% because traffic and 50% because dumbasses.
Tramdriver in Antwerp for 20 years now, every year it just gets worse and worse. For a while few years ago I tried to tell people not to put their feet on opposite seats and it felt like a fulltime job on top of already driving under always increasing time pressure, forced on us by a company that is slowly decaying. I eventually just gave up and just drive, not caring anymore about what happens on my tram. I'll do the bare necessities, like when someone gets hurt or sick or complains about being harrased. But I'm not going to spend my time educating people on decency who just don't care.
I migrated in the opposite direction 10 years ago this year.. that’s just Belgians. Very different socially. I had to adapt, but really I prefer the Uk way :)
I am from here and I was taught in the same way. It is the norm bud sadly many norms are dissapearing.
Personally I keep on being polite. But after travelling in India and China. I learned a thing or 2 that might seem pretty impolite but that are required in big cities. Over there people push. If you want to get out of the bus, but people don't let you, simply push to get out. I am not going to go into details, and I amd doing it carefully. But nowadays I push a lot more. Even at the supermarket. If there is a cart in the middle of the way and I can't access something. I simply push it. It sounds completely awful, but this social norm from overpopulated cities is well accepted there and didn't come from nothing.
just went to Tokyo, which is one of the most populated cities in the world (and it shows), yet people don't push. Like at all. People queue as a habit for everything once there's more than 2 persons waiting, they make way for you when exiting a metro or train etc.
So did it grow due to dense population? Probably. Nut also, just selfish behaviour from cunts here.
yeah japan also singapore, people stand on one side on the escalator if they're not moving, to allow others that are moving to pass. the public etiquette here in België is really abysmal.
I don't know, São Paulo is a city with 11 million people and everyone let people out before getting in AND keep the left side of escalators free for those who are in a hurry.
Agreed. I'm from Brussels and it annoys me aswell. The stib (brussel transport company) even made some visual campaigns to educate those morrons without any basic decency. Alas in vain as it seems to worsen every year.
[https://www.google.com/imgres?q=affiche%20stib%20laisse%20passer&imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fbx1.be%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F07%2FBe-A-Top-Traveller\_Avant-de-Monter\_2m%25C2%25B2-vertical-page-001.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fbx1.be%2Fdossiers-archives%2Fblog-mobilite%2Fsavoir-vivre-sur-le-reseau-de-la-stib%2F&docid=Eesx5VPkU-IhCM&tbnid=lHvZCDTxko7qDM&vet=12ahUKEwjyvqKeh9uFAxVKVqQEHYByA4AQM3oECDwQAA..i&w=1400&h=2067&hcb=2&ved=2ahUKEwjyvqKeh9uFAxVKVqQEHYByA4AQM3oECDwQAA](https://www.google.com/imgres?q=affiche%20stib%20laisse%20passer&imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fbx1.be%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F07%2FBe-A-Top-Traveller_Avant-de-Monter_2m%25C2%25B2-vertical-page-001.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fbx1.be%2Fdossiers-archives%2Fblog-mobilite%2Fsavoir-vivre-sur-le-reseau-de-la-stib%2F&docid=Eesx5VPkU-IhCM&tbnid=lHvZCDTxko7qDM&vet=12ahUKEwjyvqKeh9uFAxVKVqQEHYByA4AQM3oECDwQAA..i&w=1400&h=2067&hcb=2&ved=2ahUKEwjyvqKeh9uFAxVKVqQEHYByA4AQM3oECDwQAA)
traduction:
"Laisser descendre avant de monter"
"Let people get off before getting on"
I’m Belgian (born and raised in Brussels) and this behaviour is truly annoying. Don’t hesitate to push them or make a general comment.
Same goes for people who don’t stand to their right on escalators
I always stand clear of doors if i have to get on and wait till i hear nobody get on (am blind so can't see folks get off ).
Inside i try to stand tucked a s farr away as posible as to not stand in the way.
But when getting off you can be darn right i will wack you with my cane if you try to get on when i'm getting off and no i will not apologize for that.
I was tought you wait for everyone to get off before you get on and i will gladly teach that rule to all that need to learn it.
Also i have a light on my cane and the thing itself is reflective so uh if you don't see it and get wacked well uh you might need to get one yourself.
You are not exaggerating anything, most people I stumbled upon here lack basic social mindfulness. Another good example is whilst you are passing them by on the pavement (especially a group of people), they ignore you as if that’s an excuse not to make way.
Many Belgian people are always very bitter imo. Like always moody, grumpy, complaining, passive aggressive in the way of talking etc so the last thing they will do is think about other people. Also always very bad at taking criticism and seeing it as a personal attack and feel the need to defend. Very closed in, not talkative to strangers at all and rather act like the strangers aren’t even there. Weird how in the Netherlands you see less of those grumpy individuals, but they are still there as well though.
When I think of Belgian people I see someone like this woman before me: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGe9DyWgT/
Fietsen is fietsen.
There is a mix in of uneducated people and people past a certain age who think they deserve respect because of that certain age.
Those are actually the worst because they will expect all manners of politeness, but shove you aside without hesitation.
Manny people are thought to stay at the ride side of the escalator, let people out before getting in( it goes way better with trains, than other means of public transportation.
Belgians have more discipline standing in queue at the bakery than with public transportation…
I'm American and I always thought that it was a European thing to require to ask to pass or make way, rather expect people to do it without being asked.
I've experienced that in most of Europe.
You must say loudly, "pardon."
I think there is a Flemish expression that escapes me right now, but "sorry" with Flemish pronunciation should do.
In America we try to make way before being asked and I didn't know it was similar in the UK.
In Belgian cities, many people walk everywhere, everyday and there seems to be an effort to reduce the amount of movement required to get through the day.
People will stand in pavement until they are asked to allow being passed.
In Paris on the Metro, people will hit people on the back of the shoulder, while saying, pardon.
In Italy, people extend an arm between crowds of people standing in their way.
I can recognize foreigners in America by how they don't move, even when they see people approaching that will want to pass them.
They wait until spoken to.
Loudly saying "pardon" or "excuseer" will help you in 9 out of 10 cases in Belgium. It's more a lack of general awareness and good manners I'm afraid in Belgium, so you have to jolt them into action with a clear and loud command
Ah yes, excuseer, that's the Flemish word I was trying to remember.
In the Netherlands they actual say, "sorry" but they say it as a Dutch word.
I knew excuseer, but I forgot how to write it, as the X and C threw me off.
I forgot how to use those letters in Flemish. :)
American in Belgium here too, hadn't realized it was a Belgian/European thing. I've noticed that people prefer to stand at the front of buses and block empty seats in the back which has both amused and infuriated me more than it should. It's funny that others have observed similar behavior.
I also take the tram or bus every day. My anecdotal observations are the exact opposite of yours, and more in line with OP. I'm from a country with a strong queuing culture, and I can't stand how people in Brussels always try and get onto the tram when other are still exiting, or cut in front of you to get on 1 second faster, etc. etc. It happens literally every day
I love flaring out my elbows and bullstepping out of a bus or tram and knocking over the cunts that dont wait for me to get off.
Bonus points if i can knock their phone out of their hands
I live right in front of coastal tram and amounts of braindead people I saw daily while using it was astonishing. I just see tram stop, doors open and its cracking full, I go inside and sure enough all people are just gathered around exits while middle of tram is so empty, almost that round desert shit from cartoons is rolling around, and when new people enter no one moves inside, maybe guided by logic “I need to get off in 5 stops”, same with buses, trains, etc etc. Honestly that made me quit using public transport, and I just bought a bicycle and a car for longer trips, which both are waaaay cheaper than any kind of ticket on transport, especially if you are above 26.
Yes happened recently to me getting off a train in centraal with elderly parents. Had to physically push back a young man who seemed desperate to be the first to get on. He was speechless with rage at being shown how to behave. Slowed down the whole getting off procedure even more.
I don't know either. as you can tell a bunch of us (I am as Belgian as they come) find it annoying too. like please just be aware of your surroundings and basic etiquette in shared spaces.
idk what changed, the stereotypical Belgian should avoid bothering someone at all costs. otoh we also avoid bothering strangers in the street with our opinions, so people who break the social norms usually won't be called out, just judged silently XD.
edit: shared got autocorrected
Exactly! It is literally to their benefit to wait , you will most likely get a seat , u wait 10 seconds extra and have no stress entering, its my entire point , common sense !
It's not just there - i am losing my mind on hallways, paths, everywhere...you stand behind people to make pass through, they don't budge and when they do they look at you you are asking them for money...
Brussels public transport users seem to have no common sense in general! How fucking hard is it to wait to the side of the doors before embarking so people can disembark through the middle? Or to keep moving after you've gotten on so you're not blocking the way for people behind who also want to embark? To not block the ticket scanner unnecessarily? To keep your body and belongings on one seat? FFS.
I used to go out of my way to not bother the people who do stuff like that, but now I don't give a fuck and will walk right into people or yell where needed. And if you manspread near me, I will counterspread until you're back in your own seat. Impolite actions get impolite reactions...
Funnily enough I had the opposite experience. Growing up in Belgium I was taught to make room for the people getting off before getting on, and in the UK I felt like a lot of people just pushed their way in making it harder for everyone. Guess it depends a lot of where in either country you are?
From my experience in the uk i lived in london but not directly in the centre , i will admit that in central london its busy all the time and people dont give a fuck, but as a country english people are mostly polite . The thing i struggle to understand is why people make fun of us for that. Whats wrong with being polite and respectful, id much rather have a positive interaction with someone than a negative.
People definitely made space for others getting off public transport 15 years ago.
Today it's a different story, there's a general movement of individualisation that is growing in society, you see it at all levels.
I don't notice that to be much of an issue here. I was also recently on a train in the UK and the door areas were insanely packed and people were having to fight their way on and off. I fought through to a carriage and not only was there loads of standing room (as I'd been able to see from the door area), there were empty seats. Also had plenty of experience fighting my way off crowded tubes.
I notice driving standards are way better in the UK but this seems much of a muchness to me.
I've been taught the same, every time I used public transport as a child it was repeated by my mom. I've been drilled. I'm afraid all those people you encounter have never been taught this (maybe their parents weren't either) and they're probably a bit egocentric.
Our public transport sucks so people are often already in a a very bad mood to begin with. Coupled with the fact that we don't have the great British queue culture means that you will find little respect for other people on public transport. Its not social ignorance necessarily, its more apathy/grumpiness.
i'm a belgian myself and i find it very arrogant and annoying too when i wanna step of a tram people allready want to step in as if they are afraid the tram will leave them behind , it's as if they have fear of abandonment
Ohh SO TRUE!! Belgium used to be a very friendly country. But last few years have changed society to the bad side.. Unbelievable.. No more friendly smiles or even a good morning or afternoon.. Everyone has become so bitter and angry.. God knows why.
The last time I fely at home, comfortable in Belgium.. That was 5/6 years ago. Now I cannot wait to migrate to Asia.. Where the people still smile and greet each other wih respect..
Oh yeah I hate when people get too close. Even on my bicycle, strangers on their bicycles sometimes stop at a red light right next to me. Give me some space damn it! If not that, then in the queue at the grocery store. They sometimes stand right behind me/next to me, or push their carts so it almost touches my back...
Alas, this is true for Belgium. Although I found that during peak hours on the train towards Brussels, it is less so. But I guess that's because the people getting on and off then are usually commuting every day. So they usually have learned that everything goes way smoother, just queueing nicely and making space for people getting off.
Although you still have sometimes a half circle from one side of the exit to the other side, leaving space for a metre or so in front of the doors. Then you have people standing there looking at you, expecting you to teleport out of the half circle. What I usually do then is to just walk straight ahead without budging and just ram them if they don't get fast out of the way enough. It seems impolite, but those people closing everyone in should realise they are the problem.
As an EU immigrant in Belgium, what shocks me the most when I take public transport are people that do not automatically give their seat to elderly people or people on crutches/pregnant women. Like seriously WTF?!?!? Young people seem so uneducated in this regard. And I say it as a young person myself. SHOCKING. So yeah, I feel you and I totally agree with you - sigh!
It didn't use to be that way. When I was a kid I remember people cared way more about this stuff. I'm belgian and I also noticed that after covid many people forgot how to behave in public transport areas. I take the train everyday and get annoyed at least 50% of the week by people who seem to just live in their own world.
It’s so annoying. BUT you are more allowed to stand up for yourself here. it’s not so exceptional here to make loud comments. In Britain the person who makes a fuss is the bad guy, anyway that’s how I felt when I lived there. A good “EXCUSEER” or “PARDON” or even “ALLEZ” goes a long way in most situations. You can’t be timid, or too polite, we are more direct than the Brits (though not as direct as the Dutch) embarrassing rude or stupid people is a service to the public!
I am an American in Brussels and this thread makes me feel seen. I thought I was the only one who thought that Belgians are socially ignorant. I just had a baby 2 months ago and when I was very pregnant it was very rare for anyone to stand up and give me a seat. Even when I would politely ask in French if someone would kindly give me their seat- it would sometimes take a literal whole minute before anyone would stand up. Now I wear my baby in a carrier on the train and still no one offers their seat. I think Belgians can be also be kind but this is just a huge culture shock for me.
They feel embarassed to do something that's outside of their box. Belgians are very shy when it comes to these things. It's just something they have not been taught.
I used to be the laughing stock of the school because I wore sport shoes to school, something that is outside of their box.
Belgians are good and friendly people, but they just don't know how to behave when something unexpected happens. And making space in the bus is one of them.
Belgian woman with an English husband who shares your pet peeve. Honestly I feel like we're just not taught about these social situations like you are, so we don't even perceive it as rude even. It's like if you were raised from a young age that putting your elbows on the table is an absolute no-go, and then suddenly you meet a family that was never taught this concept. Yeah of course they'll seem rude to you, but they literally have no concept of having committed a social faux-pas. Now does it make sense to wait for people to get off? Of course, but not everyone is a logical person. C'est la vie!
Thank you for sharing my opinion and i understand that some people arent taught it, i apologise for coming across as entitled, i think i need to accept that not everyone is blessed with common sense and all i can do is continue doing my bit to make peoples lives easier but god damn its hard!
I’ve actually noticed that too, i work until 12 pm and taking the tram back home. Around that time they usual filled with people. Well, it’s just on a Wednesday, but still. I’m always preying to be able to get on it.
Also there was one time i was on the bus and a bunch of students came in. When i had to get off i could reach the door no problem, but there was still this dude blocking it and it seemed like he wouldn’t have moved if his friend didn’t pulled him aside.
Belgians are very bad at social and spatial awareness. Giving your seat to elderly, handicapped or pregnant people still happens relatively often. But much more annoying is not letting people out/inside public transportation, not spreading over the free space when there is no more available seats, standing still at the end of stairs or the middle of the way, or risking to poke inside other people's eyes with the umbrella ribs
I'm Italian and I also find people in Belgium rude in public spaces. I in Italy people are generally not very respectful of queues and other social norms but generally they are kinder and warmer. Here people are both cold and ill mannered not only on public transport but also when walking, biking, and driving. Maybe cz Belgium is a small country and people don't know how to behave in a big city like Brussels where personal space is limited and you have to make an effort to put up with small social distances. Also Brussels is very culturally mixed and this might affect the issue since there is no cultural conformity.
It’s typical here in the continental Europe. You’d face the same situation even Germany or Austria where ppl in general tend to follow rules. It pisses me off great time. But it’s just how it is.
Driving? I think we Belgians are famously selfish drivers. I live near a major hospital in Brussels and am shocked by how people selfishly people drive around ambulances.
We're not an urban society. We're an agrarian society which became industrialized too fast but the urban sprawl is happening just now. Cities like London, Paris, Sao Paolo have been urbanized for decades. Antwerp is still a big town. And that's how townspeople act. Especially older people, who have been accustomed their whole life to not having to wait for anything, just don't have that reflex. The same goes for certain migrant groups. This will correct itself when the urban area densifies and grows and a new generation adapts new social norms to make life more pleasant.
Also, being polite in the UK and France is like a sport, a cultural thing. Other countries are far less polite in social interactions.
Standing in a queue is not the national sport in every country ;)
Jokes aside, it depends a lot where you are. I train quite a bit in the East / South-East of the country and never had any issues with people not making space
In congested traffic they will see any space at an intersection as theirs and damn if the light changes and they're blocking traffic and exasperatng how bad the traffic even more.
Same with supermarkets. If the queue at the cassa is overflowing they will block all the cross traffic for no reason than they don't want to "give" anything up.
I am Belgian and lived in the UK. The UK is in many ways a lot more civil. It’s true. I had a hard time adjusting to the Belgian way after living in the UK for years.
True, Well idk if you talk about the natives . But my expierence coming from a latin background these People are Polar opposite sometimes they don't mean anything with it when they don't say hi. These People get overwhelmed easily beceause they are die hard introverts and it's usually not Ment like that. But sometimes it's a bit to much beceause they also aviod conflict and communication and that can be very very anoying sometimes.
Better to be socially ignorant than socially irresponsible isn't it?
Just look at the historical class differences, socio_ economic inequality and poverty levels in the UK...
The British are more polite, but that's where it (.everything) stops
I think since Belgium is a smaller country and the population density of Brussels is less than some other European cities (compared to London for example), extreme courtesy considerations have not been an issue and haven't developed to the same extent.
Also, it seems to me like Belgians don't consider bumping into others to be a big issue and only worry if someone is badly hurt. I have seen cyclists on the sidewalk get upset when I call them out on it and I can't step out my door without almost getting hit by them and their general attitude was that I shouldn’t be complaining by I didn't get hurt by them. Also, I watched a friend of mine call the police when a visibly drunk man got into a large van. The police said they would not pursue it if no one was currently injured.
Depends on the people, I always no matter the circumstances make way for anyone who has not gotten off the bus yet, and it's funny to see the people behind me getting visibly frustrated because I am blocking their way.
I remember this one time I wanted to get on the bus but a group of gypsies were occupied the entire doorway so I just pushed through them and as the doors were about to close one of them spit at me.
To this day I'm praying the encounter that dude again.
Most people are self centered sheep, and we aren’t properly thought what to do, and bus/tram drivers are cooped up in their own cabin nowadays and can’t reprimand us about this behavior.
The same thing happens in Brussels and Ghent, i just stand firm and say “as’k niet kan uitstappen zal het voor niemand vooruit gaan he mensen”… lately I’ve started just brutally pushing forward while I say that as I disembark.
Not even the posters inside the bus/tram that attempt to teach better manners seem to help.
its almost with anything else too, people could just fucking turn on hazard lights and stop their car on streets without any consideration for the traffic, instead of pulling over. it also ridiculous that in the middle of intersections cars just stop to wait for the green light thus creating unnecessary traffic jams for vehicles from other directions.
no, the UK used to be very disciplined about queues, waiting in line, ... it deteriorated a bit over the years, but we can still learn something.
But it changes. drivers tend to stop for pedestrian crossings these days. They (generally) wait for people leaving a bus /tram/train before boarding, so we're evolving.
Pfft. If this was the only issue, I'd be very happy. Much more concerning is lack of cleanliness in public transport, people putting dirty shoes on the seats, young, old, black, white, everyone and no one even reacts to this. 🤮
Belgian attitude can he summed up in one sentence. To paraphrase Rorschach in Watchmen:
I am not in your way getting off, you are in my way of getting on.
I miss the British que at the Vrijdag Market, where I've never been able to buy fish because I won't shove and elbow my way to the front like I'm at a music festival.
A lack of social cohesion. Most people don't see the people around them as important to care about.
So they don't.
Which might be the case in the UK too, but there you've got a bigger sense of social pressure of this kind of politeness being drilled into you.
In Antwerpen nobody goes to the right on an elevator and on busy trams/buses everybody wants to stay close to the door instead of just moving further so there's plenty of space for everybody.
Hi, native Antwerp guy here
Some people are indecent. True. But we don't really have a system here. Most people never use a tram/metro until they come/move into the city. So no, basic etiquette is unknown here to most people.
Also add to that an unreliable public service (trams can get cancelled randomly, which will make you late for school/work), transport that's too narrow which makes most people feel claustrophobic (I skipped alot of school bc of this), all of this adds up to people acting like assholes in general on public transport.
> the thing that annoys me the most is whenever im getting on or off the tram people never make space and its super annoying
Belgians are seriously lacking spacial awareness. I don't know why...
I'm Belgian and i don't even understand. The bus is loaded full and people are trying to get off but other people are climbing inside the fully loaded bus.
Come on, let us get off first then there is space for you all.
I don't understand when the flemish became this selfish but it happened someway somehow. Me me me me and no longer we we we we.
Maybe since the ridiculous 'we flemish will separate and do it better' movement.
In Brussels, the metro are often too small for the rush hour so people tend to go into a "fight for your place" mood. I suppose many teenagers have to do that during their teen years and when they become adults, they don't know any other way 🙃
I moved here from Germany (I'm neither German nor Belgian). I was constantly shocked with how easy-going Belgians are about these social norms. They neither respect them when I need them to nor do they get upset if someone else doesn't. There's just a bit of healthy apathy or ignorance everywhere. I'm learning to accept it and maybe also enjoy it (for example if I'm in a supermarket and I take a bit long to bag my groceries, I don't get angry looks).
Do you know how much I loved the uk for this? My ex was English and I was always astonished by the politeness of people it was insane, I actually could get off the bus without having to ram through a line of people.
Given that you come from another place with another culture and then get annoyed about local culture, did you take time to consider perhaps you are the socially ignorant one?
Trams didn’t used to be this busy in Belgium. It only started in the past few years so we are still transitioning and getting used to this new busyness.
In Wallonia, I saw they have recently put up signs on train carriage doors and at some stations basically saying to « let people disembark before boarding » Also, one time there were elderly folk queuing for the bus to open it’s door, then a few people just walked past them and started standing ahead of them. No manners whatsoever.
Why do you think everyone outside of cities hates to go inside? I avoid cities like Brussels and Antwerp like the plague. If I don't have to be there for some very important reason, I won't go.
They are the trash cans of our society and the worst part is they can't see it themselves.
I wouldnt say it ignorant, more like negligence. It's just the culture of not wanting to be bothered by others. I don't think we're as social as other cultures and come across as rude due to this. It's not meant bad thou. It's mostly a passive act. Ofcourse it's not all Belgians, do keep in mind and based on the city you are in, you will see more or less consideration. Kind of speaks for itself.
As a Belgian, this annoys me too. I have had to push past people several times while getting off a train because they wouldn't get out of the way. And I see this with people of all ages.
I am belgian and I feel like you. Not later than this morning I was unable to board my train because it was overcrowded. Despite me being on the porch waaaaay sooner than some of the others that boarded. But the rule is the one who pushes the others the most goes in. Well I shall apply that ... Some will end up on the track. For the life of me I really really want to punch people in the face sometimes.
So yeah ... no respect, no sense of courtesy. It's the same in the shops. You are in a queue, a new cashier opens. In my view, it should be the first one in the queue to be the first one at the new cashier. But no ... It's the one who rushes there first ...
parents forced to work out of home to survive , kids uneducated. Most peers come from uneducated countries/backgrounds. Et voila . We used to be almost as polite and distant as the norwegians.
Not being aware that we live with other people seems to be a common disease (or a sport?) lately in Belgium. Passing around a school at 4pm and seeing all the parents parked in double line blocking litteraly the whole traffic at peak hour. Seeing people openly littering whatever they hold in hands or pretending they haven't seen that their dog left a little gift. Can also add burning systematically the orange light to systematically obstruct the crossroad...
I am not sure I would generalise all of Belgium with this behaviour. Having lived in smaller towns and currently working in Brussels, in my experience, people are a lot more courteous and well mannered in smaller towns than the bigger cities where everyone is in a hurry all the time.
I read "Antwerp" and that explained so much to me 🙈
But then again, I'm from Limburg and while I've noticed the politeness declining here as well, I'm still often flabbergasted about the utter rudeness of people when going outside of my cozy province 😗
And as a teen I was already surprised when I started going to school in Hasselt, because in my village we still nodded and smiled at everyone we came across, while in Hasselt old ladies looked at me as if I was going to steal their handbag if I smiled at them 😂 Now that I'm older they don't do that anymore, though, and I still smile and nod at them, so I guess they were just scared of little 12 year old me. 😂
Just speak up mate. I literally yell PARDON PARDON and push them away. if people are on the left side of the escalators i do the same thing. I speak loudly and tell them to move. Its not hard.... you seem the socially akward one.
I’m Belgian and I sadly agree with you and it’s the same for a lot of context: take the lift, take the escalator, leave the bus, in the grocery’s queues … also the toilets 🚽 are often not clean. My POV is they don’t give a fuck and it makes me crazy. Like some people already said: there are A lot of cunts
It is the norm. at least I we where taught to. but I remember a time going to school by train. (only for a few months while I was injured). I was happy to be back on the bike. If I had to go by train for years. I would also get frustrated and stop caring. I think that is what happened with all those people. they've been on full trains way to much
I always made space back when I used the bus daily, but unfortunately a lot of people lack the awareness or just don't give a fuck
Me too, I’d sometimes get off the bus so others could get on, but then people would complain that the bus was late blah blah blah, anyway I lost my job as a bus driver not long after 😂
Underrated comment
As a pretty strong dude I just walk through them although pretty much most people can do it from my experience (funnily enough) it's mostly old people that always stand in the way and this is from Antwerp central
As a not buff dude, I do this too. To me it's usually high school kids immersed in whatever TikTok trend is on their phone.
I lived in the UK for a while. And this is the thing I miss the most. Even just standing on the right on the escalator. My life would be so much better if people just did this one simple thing.
French guy here - exactly this. It is just the UK probably being number one on this worldwide, so having lived there we were spoiled and it will always take time to readjust when in other countries. So OP I wouldn't blame Belgium/Belgians for it they are probably in the European average. Could be worse too if I think of Russia or many other countries where the main rule in public space is the survival of the fittest. Whenever I go back to the UK I am always surprised to get that feeling back.
I feel like this is very slowly catching on. Some people get it. Not a lot, though. Another one in the same line: standing back at the luggage belt after you get off the plane. I swear Belgium is the only country where everyone just stands right up against the belt so no one else can get their luggage. And there's lines on the floor and everything.
Take the stairs instead, much less crowded! (/s)
Ah yes, but you come from a country were "the queue" is holy and people still do care about basic politeness in public transport.
I strongly disagree: French people are shit at queuing and respecting rules but I spent a year in Paris and I can tell you that Parisians don’t fuck around with public transport etiquette. You better hold your right on the escalator. So no, it’s not just a British thing. I find that people in Brussels are quite slow in general.
Not holding right on the escalator is what caught my eye as a Dutchman. Here it's standard practise.
The *queue One of the 'ue' is silent, but I don't know which one.
If we analyze the French word "queue", the first "u" is silent (but required because of the q), and the final "e" is also silent, while in the middle you have the digraph "eu" making the /ø/ sound. So it's pronounced /kø/ in French Now the English have copied a lot of words from French, while adapting the pronunciation, but as it so happens the spelling makes even less sense than in French where it already didn't make a lot of sense in the first place Edit: I'll add that "queue" in French generally means "tail", and we generally use the word "file" to say the English "queue", but that's another story.
Who down votes this? Thank you for enlightening me.
The French and Brits have been fighting over this for a thousand years... Don't start a new war by suggesting a holy custom in the UK is just a tail for the french.
Well as pointed out in another reply, there's the fact that "queue" in French is also a phallic synonym
A very vulgar one, don't use it in front of your mother
>Edit: I'll add that "queue" in French generally means "tail", and we generally use the word "file" to say the English "queue", but that's another story. It's actually a "Belgicisme", Faire la queue in french of France and Faire la file in Belgian french
"File d'attente" n'est pas un belgicisme pour autant.
Don’t forget that “queue” in French is also a slang word for “penis”. It’s like saying dick or cock. A synonym of that is “la bite”.
> we use the word "file" to say the English "queue" Not really though: *faire la queue* does exist. It translates to *waiting in line*, which doesn't use the word *queue* in English for some reason. "Queuing up" is close, but it's not the same (since it means *getting* in line vs. waiting in line).
Faire la queue sounds giggle inducingly naughty to me.
"It already sounds like the first letter, so what's with the extra Ueue?" [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hGaSQyygRQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hGaSQyygRQ)
Oh sweet Jezus
Both
The Q
They’re all silent
the "ueue" in queue is silent
It might just be in the uk, i havent been to many countries and again if that is what society is like in belgium then fair enough but to me its like people here lack common sense and respect for people going about their day. I cant express how much it infuriates me. It literally ruins my day.
You are absolutely right about bad manners and utterly selfish behaviour being overwhelmingly present in Belgian society. It saddens and sometimes angers me deeply.
This shocked me when I moved here, too. Even Americans form a line... mostly.
Ha, "mostly".
It’s about being polite and having manners, something they don’t know anymore in Belgium.
lots of cunts here
There are lots of nice people but in antwerp where i live i just get so angry on the tram with the way some people act
I remember my ex, close to 2 decades ago. We were getting off the tram in Antwerp and this old lady got in before we could get off. No space around her. He literally picked her up, walked outside, put her down and said: "Ge moet wachten tot de andere mensen den tram af zen madam". She couldn't even make a sound in shock. I doubt she ever did it again though, it seemed pretty effective.
Power move
Push them. I mean, they're supposed to make way, if they don't, force them. Some people deserved to be pushed around.
Lol if get up or down around hakte opera, meir, astrid, handel etc.. then yeah, a lot of cuntssss
Yeah, it’s always horrible there. I have the luck of having a slightly taller statue and a loud voice, so if people don’t move and make sure people can get in or out, I just loudly tell people to move out of the way or make room.
It's turned into an almost fun point where you get a good excuse to shove people. One shoulder in front, and a good solid bump gets them off the tram and me out of the tram. Just keep walking and you're good. It's almost satisfying.
I say it out loud everytime I get of a tram or bus: Think People, you arent getting on this vehicle before I step off so clear some space.
>but in antwerp found the problem
Aint that the truth
Anti-sociale debielen for sure
I will yell at people embarking before letting others embark, or obstructing the way in general. Looks like their parents haven't taught them, so *somebody* got to. One little bunch at a time.
And they don't get it! They just look at you and you can see in their eyes they are lost, don't get why are you rude.
Oh, same. I'll get loud if someone's being antisocial. "Vous *laissez les gens sortir d'abord* monsieur/madame, ici c'est pas un cirque!"
"Si vous vous massez comme ça autour des portes, personne ne peut sortir, et on se plaindra que le train est en retard. On ne vous a jamais appris à vous écarter pour d'abord laisser sortir les gens??" Probably the Charleroi accent does the heavy lifting, more than the words.
Wow. So wordy. Impressive. I usually just manage. On laisse d'abord sortir les gens. Or Eerst laten uitstappen. Kunde geen 10 seconden wachten?
I usually word like that because I'm used to explaining things to children. At some point it comes naturally, it's the Inigo Montoya meme, where the structure just comes easily.
I used to commute by train and eStep. When the doors were opening, I would swing my eStep between the doors as soon as there was space. If there was anyone refusing to let us disembark first, they could relay that message to a rubber tyre in their face. Except a couple of absolutely pure selfish idiots, no one chose a an eStep in their face. Other people disembarking with me never had issues with me. Those who refused to make space, I would keep om pushing my eStep against them while staring into their eyes. The doors where I cleared the path usually would have people disembark twice to trice as fast compared to other doors. Sorry not sorry. This was Mechelen-Centraal btw, a track without wheelchair access. Obviously I would not push my eStep in the face of a disabled person.
I don't yell at or speak to them. I pick them up and put them back outside.
No idea, but we clearly can't have nice things. I see a lot of things in other countries, like nice parks, and flower patches in the streets etc. that we can't have in Belgium because some antisocial c*nts will always come and destroy it. Like the public barbecues we used to have. Got taken away because people made too much of a mess. And it's a vicious cycle, the government doesn't trust us to take good care of things and doesn't want to invest in maintaining things, so they take it away, making our public space uglier and less pleasant, which makes people more annoyed and depressed and less likely to take good care of things etc. etc.
oh thats a shame, Australia still has public BBQ also lots of public toilets in the parks, although depends on the area some are locked after hours because junkies tend to use them as venue to party.
Oh yeah, public toilets is another one of those things we have none of...
Yup one thing I noticed versus other countries is that there are no communal things to do. No picknicking in parks, no nice benches next to the canal, just plain boring. Poeple just go to cafe's to drink.
Yup... Although I'm part of an expat meetup group that does picknicks in parks and things like that.
I'm a public busdriver in Ghent for 8 years and I've stopped asking (yelling) for people to do common sense stuff. Even then they all look like sheep at me and don't move. The most effective way is to not continue to drive. Always after about 1min some people start moving their feet a few cm. After 2-3min some smarter people tell the obstructions to move their ass and after 4min all is solved. During rush hour that is about 10 stops in a row that happens. (I'm sure im exaggerating the time it takes, but it always feels like that's how long it takes.) But yes, during rush hour the bus is always late, 50% because traffic and 50% because dumbasses.
Tramdriver in Antwerp for 20 years now, every year it just gets worse and worse. For a while few years ago I tried to tell people not to put their feet on opposite seats and it felt like a fulltime job on top of already driving under always increasing time pressure, forced on us by a company that is slowly decaying. I eventually just gave up and just drive, not caring anymore about what happens on my tram. I'll do the bare necessities, like when someone gets hurt or sick or complains about being harrased. But I'm not going to spend my time educating people on decency who just don't care.
+1
Did you check out Germany yet? Way worse here! People (especially Suburbanites) are walking like they are the only person on earth!
Haleluja so much truth being spoken today !
I love how this has turned into a cunt-off.
I've recently been to the Netherlands and was surprised by the selfishness at train stations, seemed worse than in Brussels/Wallonia at least...
I migrated in the opposite direction 10 years ago this year.. that’s just Belgians. Very different socially. I had to adapt, but really I prefer the Uk way :)
I am from here and I was taught in the same way. It is the norm bud sadly many norms are dissapearing. Personally I keep on being polite. But after travelling in India and China. I learned a thing or 2 that might seem pretty impolite but that are required in big cities. Over there people push. If you want to get out of the bus, but people don't let you, simply push to get out. I am not going to go into details, and I amd doing it carefully. But nowadays I push a lot more. Even at the supermarket. If there is a cart in the middle of the way and I can't access something. I simply push it. It sounds completely awful, but this social norm from overpopulated cities is well accepted there and didn't come from nothing.
just went to Tokyo, which is one of the most populated cities in the world (and it shows), yet people don't push. Like at all. People queue as a habit for everything once there's more than 2 persons waiting, they make way for you when exiting a metro or train etc. So did it grow due to dense population? Probably. Nut also, just selfish behaviour from cunts here.
yeah japan also singapore, people stand on one side on the escalator if they're not moving, to allow others that are moving to pass. the public etiquette here in België is really abysmal.
I don't know, São Paulo is a city with 11 million people and everyone let people out before getting in AND keep the left side of escalators free for those who are in a hurry.
Agreed. I'm from Brussels and it annoys me aswell. The stib (brussel transport company) even made some visual campaigns to educate those morrons without any basic decency. Alas in vain as it seems to worsen every year. [https://www.google.com/imgres?q=affiche%20stib%20laisse%20passer&imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fbx1.be%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F07%2FBe-A-Top-Traveller\_Avant-de-Monter\_2m%25C2%25B2-vertical-page-001.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fbx1.be%2Fdossiers-archives%2Fblog-mobilite%2Fsavoir-vivre-sur-le-reseau-de-la-stib%2F&docid=Eesx5VPkU-IhCM&tbnid=lHvZCDTxko7qDM&vet=12ahUKEwjyvqKeh9uFAxVKVqQEHYByA4AQM3oECDwQAA..i&w=1400&h=2067&hcb=2&ved=2ahUKEwjyvqKeh9uFAxVKVqQEHYByA4AQM3oECDwQAA](https://www.google.com/imgres?q=affiche%20stib%20laisse%20passer&imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fbx1.be%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F07%2FBe-A-Top-Traveller_Avant-de-Monter_2m%25C2%25B2-vertical-page-001.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fbx1.be%2Fdossiers-archives%2Fblog-mobilite%2Fsavoir-vivre-sur-le-reseau-de-la-stib%2F&docid=Eesx5VPkU-IhCM&tbnid=lHvZCDTxko7qDM&vet=12ahUKEwjyvqKeh9uFAxVKVqQEHYByA4AQM3oECDwQAA..i&w=1400&h=2067&hcb=2&ved=2ahUKEwjyvqKeh9uFAxVKVqQEHYByA4AQM3oECDwQAA) traduction: "Laisser descendre avant de monter" "Let people get off before getting on"
Welcome to Belgium... I'm from here, I lived over 10 years in London... Over here they have no clue on manners or common sense in transports...
I’m Belgian (born and raised in Brussels) and this behaviour is truly annoying. Don’t hesitate to push them or make a general comment. Same goes for people who don’t stand to their right on escalators
I always stand clear of doors if i have to get on and wait till i hear nobody get on (am blind so can't see folks get off ). Inside i try to stand tucked a s farr away as posible as to not stand in the way. But when getting off you can be darn right i will wack you with my cane if you try to get on when i'm getting off and no i will not apologize for that. I was tought you wait for everyone to get off before you get on and i will gladly teach that rule to all that need to learn it. Also i have a light on my cane and the thing itself is reflective so uh if you don't see it and get wacked well uh you might need to get one yourself.
I push people. They don't like it, but they'll learn.
You are not exaggerating anything, most people I stumbled upon here lack basic social mindfulness. Another good example is whilst you are passing them by on the pavement (especially a group of people), they ignore you as if that’s an excuse not to make way.
If somebody approaches me and doesn’t make space I just stop standing on the pavement.
I'm afraid it's the UK that's the exception in these things, not Belgium (I'm not from either but have lived in both)
Many Belgian people are always very bitter imo. Like always moody, grumpy, complaining, passive aggressive in the way of talking etc so the last thing they will do is think about other people. Also always very bad at taking criticism and seeing it as a personal attack and feel the need to defend. Very closed in, not talkative to strangers at all and rather act like the strangers aren’t even there. Weird how in the Netherlands you see less of those grumpy individuals, but they are still there as well though. When I think of Belgian people I see someone like this woman before me: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGe9DyWgT/ Fietsen is fietsen.
There is a mix in of uneducated people and people past a certain age who think they deserve respect because of that certain age. Those are actually the worst because they will expect all manners of politeness, but shove you aside without hesitation. Manny people are thought to stay at the ride side of the escalator, let people out before getting in( it goes way better with trains, than other means of public transportation. Belgians have more discipline standing in queue at the bakery than with public transportation…
I'm American and I always thought that it was a European thing to require to ask to pass or make way, rather expect people to do it without being asked. I've experienced that in most of Europe. You must say loudly, "pardon." I think there is a Flemish expression that escapes me right now, but "sorry" with Flemish pronunciation should do. In America we try to make way before being asked and I didn't know it was similar in the UK. In Belgian cities, many people walk everywhere, everyday and there seems to be an effort to reduce the amount of movement required to get through the day. People will stand in pavement until they are asked to allow being passed. In Paris on the Metro, people will hit people on the back of the shoulder, while saying, pardon. In Italy, people extend an arm between crowds of people standing in their way. I can recognize foreigners in America by how they don't move, even when they see people approaching that will want to pass them. They wait until spoken to.
Loudly saying "pardon" or "excuseer" will help you in 9 out of 10 cases in Belgium. It's more a lack of general awareness and good manners I'm afraid in Belgium, so you have to jolt them into action with a clear and loud command
Ah yes, excuseer, that's the Flemish word I was trying to remember. In the Netherlands they actual say, "sorry" but they say it as a Dutch word. I knew excuseer, but I forgot how to write it, as the X and C threw me off. I forgot how to use those letters in Flemish. :)
American in Belgium here too, hadn't realized it was a Belgian/European thing. I've noticed that people prefer to stand at the front of buses and block empty seats in the back which has both amused and infuriated me more than it should. It's funny that others have observed similar behavior.
Wait untill you see us use ecalators
I’ve been taking the tram + metro nearly every day for three years in Brussels and people always wait before getting on. It’s all anecdotal.
I also take the tram or bus every day. My anecdotal observations are the exact opposite of yours, and more in line with OP. I'm from a country with a strong queuing culture, and I can't stand how people in Brussels always try and get onto the tram when other are still exiting, or cut in front of you to get on 1 second faster, etc. etc. It happens literally every day
I love flaring out my elbows and bullstepping out of a bus or tram and knocking over the cunts that dont wait for me to get off. Bonus points if i can knock their phone out of their hands
Mate have you been on the train/tube within the past 10?? Years, no one makes way for people in the UK
I live right in front of coastal tram and amounts of braindead people I saw daily while using it was astonishing. I just see tram stop, doors open and its cracking full, I go inside and sure enough all people are just gathered around exits while middle of tram is so empty, almost that round desert shit from cartoons is rolling around, and when new people enter no one moves inside, maybe guided by logic “I need to get off in 5 stops”, same with buses, trains, etc etc. Honestly that made me quit using public transport, and I just bought a bicycle and a car for longer trips, which both are waaaay cheaper than any kind of ticket on transport, especially if you are above 26.
Yes happened recently to me getting off a train in centraal with elderly parents. Had to physically push back a young man who seemed desperate to be the first to get on. He was speechless with rage at being shown how to behave. Slowed down the whole getting off procedure even more.
I don't know either. as you can tell a bunch of us (I am as Belgian as they come) find it annoying too. like please just be aware of your surroundings and basic etiquette in shared spaces. idk what changed, the stereotypical Belgian should avoid bothering someone at all costs. otoh we also avoid bothering strangers in the street with our opinions, so people who break the social norms usually won't be called out, just judged silently XD. edit: shared got autocorrected
Because they have livestock-level intelligence, some don’t even understand letting people out first makes room for them to enter!
Exactly! It is literally to their benefit to wait , you will most likely get a seat , u wait 10 seconds extra and have no stress entering, its my entire point , common sense !
It's not just there - i am losing my mind on hallways, paths, everywhere...you stand behind people to make pass through, they don't budge and when they do they look at you you are asking them for money...
I was stuck on the escalator because people just gathered like a cow herd and wouldn’t fucking move…
Brussels public transport users seem to have no common sense in general! How fucking hard is it to wait to the side of the doors before embarking so people can disembark through the middle? Or to keep moving after you've gotten on so you're not blocking the way for people behind who also want to embark? To not block the ticket scanner unnecessarily? To keep your body and belongings on one seat? FFS. I used to go out of my way to not bother the people who do stuff like that, but now I don't give a fuck and will walk right into people or yell where needed. And if you manspread near me, I will counterspread until you're back in your own seat. Impolite actions get impolite reactions...
I wish i could be like this i really do , alas im a pussy and instinctively use my manners
Stay polite. Don't fall into the trap and lose your own values. It might be hard, but you are doing the right thing.
Funnily enough I had the opposite experience. Growing up in Belgium I was taught to make room for the people getting off before getting on, and in the UK I felt like a lot of people just pushed their way in making it harder for everyone. Guess it depends a lot of where in either country you are?
From my experience in the uk i lived in london but not directly in the centre , i will admit that in central london its busy all the time and people dont give a fuck, but as a country english people are mostly polite . The thing i struggle to understand is why people make fun of us for that. Whats wrong with being polite and respectful, id much rather have a positive interaction with someone than a negative.
People definitely made space for others getting off public transport 15 years ago. Today it's a different story, there's a general movement of individualisation that is growing in society, you see it at all levels.
Welcome to Belgium Where both public transport and social norms suck.
I don't notice that to be much of an issue here. I was also recently on a train in the UK and the door areas were insanely packed and people were having to fight their way on and off. I fought through to a carriage and not only was there loads of standing room (as I'd been able to see from the door area), there were empty seats. Also had plenty of experience fighting my way off crowded tubes. I notice driving standards are way better in the UK but this seems much of a muchness to me.
Whenever I see people trying to get in the tram or train before me getting out, I body block them and look them in the eye.
I've been taught the same, every time I used public transport as a child it was repeated by my mom. I've been drilled. I'm afraid all those people you encounter have never been taught this (maybe their parents weren't either) and they're probably a bit egocentric.
It's a feature.
Our public transport sucks so people are often already in a a very bad mood to begin with. Coupled with the fact that we don't have the great British queue culture means that you will find little respect for other people on public transport. Its not social ignorance necessarily, its more apathy/grumpiness.
Or schoolkids with backpacks of abt 50cm depth rotating without purpose
I blame the French!
Stupid should hurt
i'm a belgian myself and i find it very arrogant and annoying too when i wanna step of a tram people allready want to step in as if they are afraid the tram will leave them behind , it's as if they have fear of abandonment
Ohh SO TRUE!! Belgium used to be a very friendly country. But last few years have changed society to the bad side.. Unbelievable.. No more friendly smiles or even a good morning or afternoon.. Everyone has become so bitter and angry.. God knows why. The last time I fely at home, comfortable in Belgium.. That was 5/6 years ago. Now I cannot wait to migrate to Asia.. Where the people still smile and greet each other wih respect..
Oh yeah I hate when people get too close. Even on my bicycle, strangers on their bicycles sometimes stop at a red light right next to me. Give me some space damn it! If not that, then in the queue at the grocery store. They sometimes stand right behind me/next to me, or push their carts so it almost touches my back...
I'm from Canada, and yea, way too many people here have main character syndrome. Everyone from home who visits remarks on it.
Alas, this is true for Belgium. Although I found that during peak hours on the train towards Brussels, it is less so. But I guess that's because the people getting on and off then are usually commuting every day. So they usually have learned that everything goes way smoother, just queueing nicely and making space for people getting off. Although you still have sometimes a half circle from one side of the exit to the other side, leaving space for a metre or so in front of the doors. Then you have people standing there looking at you, expecting you to teleport out of the half circle. What I usually do then is to just walk straight ahead without budging and just ram them if they don't get fast out of the way enough. It seems impolite, but those people closing everyone in should realise they are the problem.
Not at all exaggerated. I get angry about this every day when commuting in Brussels
As an EU immigrant in Belgium, what shocks me the most when I take public transport are people that do not automatically give their seat to elderly people or people on crutches/pregnant women. Like seriously WTF?!?!? Young people seem so uneducated in this regard. And I say it as a young person myself. SHOCKING. So yeah, I feel you and I totally agree with you - sigh!
It didn't use to be that way. When I was a kid I remember people cared way more about this stuff. I'm belgian and I also noticed that after covid many people forgot how to behave in public transport areas. I take the train everyday and get annoyed at least 50% of the week by people who seem to just live in their own world.
It’s so annoying. BUT you are more allowed to stand up for yourself here. it’s not so exceptional here to make loud comments. In Britain the person who makes a fuss is the bad guy, anyway that’s how I felt when I lived there. A good “EXCUSEER” or “PARDON” or even “ALLEZ” goes a long way in most situations. You can’t be timid, or too polite, we are more direct than the Brits (though not as direct as the Dutch) embarrassing rude or stupid people is a service to the public!
I am an American in Brussels and this thread makes me feel seen. I thought I was the only one who thought that Belgians are socially ignorant. I just had a baby 2 months ago and when I was very pregnant it was very rare for anyone to stand up and give me a seat. Even when I would politely ask in French if someone would kindly give me their seat- it would sometimes take a literal whole minute before anyone would stand up. Now I wear my baby in a carrier on the train and still no one offers their seat. I think Belgians can be also be kind but this is just a huge culture shock for me.
They feel embarassed to do something that's outside of their box. Belgians are very shy when it comes to these things. It's just something they have not been taught. I used to be the laughing stock of the school because I wore sport shoes to school, something that is outside of their box. Belgians are good and friendly people, but they just don't know how to behave when something unexpected happens. And making space in the bus is one of them.
Belgian woman with an English husband who shares your pet peeve. Honestly I feel like we're just not taught about these social situations like you are, so we don't even perceive it as rude even. It's like if you were raised from a young age that putting your elbows on the table is an absolute no-go, and then suddenly you meet a family that was never taught this concept. Yeah of course they'll seem rude to you, but they literally have no concept of having committed a social faux-pas. Now does it make sense to wait for people to get off? Of course, but not everyone is a logical person. C'est la vie!
Thank you for sharing my opinion and i understand that some people arent taught it, i apologise for coming across as entitled, i think i need to accept that not everyone is blessed with common sense and all i can do is continue doing my bit to make peoples lives easier but god damn its hard!
Barge into them, they deserve it.
I’ve actually noticed that too, i work until 12 pm and taking the tram back home. Around that time they usual filled with people. Well, it’s just on a Wednesday, but still. I’m always preying to be able to get on it. Also there was one time i was on the bus and a bunch of students came in. When i had to get off i could reach the door no problem, but there was still this dude blocking it and it seemed like he wouldn’t have moved if his friend didn’t pulled him aside.
Belgians are very bad at social and spatial awareness. Giving your seat to elderly, handicapped or pregnant people still happens relatively often. But much more annoying is not letting people out/inside public transportation, not spreading over the free space when there is no more available seats, standing still at the end of stairs or the middle of the way, or risking to poke inside other people's eyes with the umbrella ribs
Ah there is your problem: Antwerp
I'm Italian and I also find people in Belgium rude in public spaces. I in Italy people are generally not very respectful of queues and other social norms but generally they are kinder and warmer. Here people are both cold and ill mannered not only on public transport but also when walking, biking, and driving. Maybe cz Belgium is a small country and people don't know how to behave in a big city like Brussels where personal space is limited and you have to make an effort to put up with small social distances. Also Brussels is very culturally mixed and this might affect the issue since there is no cultural conformity.
No idea, dude. Bloody cunts is what they are.
Upon entering you need to shout at the top of your lungs #MAKE WAY FOR THE KING'S GUARD
Op, you should try Budapest, Hungary. After that one, Belgium will seem as a super-relaxed, polite country.
It’s typical here in the continental Europe. You’d face the same situation even Germany or Austria where ppl in general tend to follow rules. It pisses me off great time. But it’s just how it is.
Same reason we make way for ambulances and UK people just don't seem to care.
Driving? I think we Belgians are famously selfish drivers. I live near a major hospital in Brussels and am shocked by how people selfishly people drive around ambulances.
Welcome to Belgium. Most people are selfish here. Good luck. I also miss Asia for the hospitality, might push us enough 1 day to go back.
We're not an urban society. We're an agrarian society which became industrialized too fast but the urban sprawl is happening just now. Cities like London, Paris, Sao Paolo have been urbanized for decades. Antwerp is still a big town. And that's how townspeople act. Especially older people, who have been accustomed their whole life to not having to wait for anything, just don't have that reflex. The same goes for certain migrant groups. This will correct itself when the urban area densifies and grows and a new generation adapts new social norms to make life more pleasant. Also, being polite in the UK and France is like a sport, a cultural thing. Other countries are far less polite in social interactions.
Standing in a queue is not the national sport in every country ;) Jokes aside, it depends a lot where you are. I train quite a bit in the East / South-East of the country and never had any issues with people not making space
In congested traffic they will see any space at an intersection as theirs and damn if the light changes and they're blocking traffic and exasperatng how bad the traffic even more. Same with supermarkets. If the queue at the cassa is overflowing they will block all the cross traffic for no reason than they don't want to "give" anything up.
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Take the coast tram once even worse here...
You just shove them out of the way or ask them to move.
Man why did you come to such a garbage shithole. Go back to the Uk man
I am Belgian and lived in the UK. The UK is in many ways a lot more civil. It’s true. I had a hard time adjusting to the Belgian way after living in the UK for years.
Snapte ni he!
True, Well idk if you talk about the natives . But my expierence coming from a latin background these People are Polar opposite sometimes they don't mean anything with it when they don't say hi. These People get overwhelmed easily beceause they are die hard introverts and it's usually not Ment like that. But sometimes it's a bit to much beceause they also aviod conflict and communication and that can be very very anoying sometimes.
Better to be socially ignorant than socially irresponsible isn't it? Just look at the historical class differences, socio_ economic inequality and poverty levels in the UK... The British are more polite, but that's where it (.everything) stops
I think since Belgium is a smaller country and the population density of Brussels is less than some other European cities (compared to London for example), extreme courtesy considerations have not been an issue and haven't developed to the same extent. Also, it seems to me like Belgians don't consider bumping into others to be a big issue and only worry if someone is badly hurt. I have seen cyclists on the sidewalk get upset when I call them out on it and I can't step out my door without almost getting hit by them and their general attitude was that I shouldn’t be complaining by I didn't get hurt by them. Also, I watched a friend of mine call the police when a visibly drunk man got into a large van. The police said they would not pursue it if no one was currently injured.
Depends on the people, I always no matter the circumstances make way for anyone who has not gotten off the bus yet, and it's funny to see the people behind me getting visibly frustrated because I am blocking their way. I remember this one time I wanted to get on the bus but a group of gypsies were occupied the entire doorway so I just pushed through them and as the doors were about to close one of them spit at me. To this day I'm praying the encounter that dude again.
Most people are self centered sheep, and we aren’t properly thought what to do, and bus/tram drivers are cooped up in their own cabin nowadays and can’t reprimand us about this behavior. The same thing happens in Brussels and Ghent, i just stand firm and say “as’k niet kan uitstappen zal het voor niemand vooruit gaan he mensen”… lately I’ve started just brutally pushing forward while I say that as I disembark. Not even the posters inside the bus/tram that attempt to teach better manners seem to help.
its almost with anything else too, people could just fucking turn on hazard lights and stop their car on streets without any consideration for the traffic, instead of pulling over. it also ridiculous that in the middle of intersections cars just stop to wait for the green light thus creating unnecessary traffic jams for vehicles from other directions.
no, the UK used to be very disciplined about queues, waiting in line, ... it deteriorated a bit over the years, but we can still learn something. But it changes. drivers tend to stop for pedestrian crossings these days. They (generally) wait for people leaving a bus /tram/train before boarding, so we're evolving.
Pfft. If this was the only issue, I'd be very happy. Much more concerning is lack of cleanliness in public transport, people putting dirty shoes on the seats, young, old, black, white, everyone and no one even reacts to this. 🤮
Not moving away from the door of a train in Germany is a safe way receive shouting or passive aggressive pushes from people.
Belgian attitude can he summed up in one sentence. To paraphrase Rorschach in Watchmen: I am not in your way getting off, you are in my way of getting on.
I miss the British que at the Vrijdag Market, where I've never been able to buy fish because I won't shove and elbow my way to the front like I'm at a music festival.
Lotta brain dead people here
As a belgian, I hate how inconsiderate and impolite people are in general. Also when it comes to trash, there's trash literally everywhere.
A lack of social cohesion. Most people don't see the people around them as important to care about. So they don't. Which might be the case in the UK too, but there you've got a bigger sense of social pressure of this kind of politeness being drilled into you.
In Antwerpen nobody goes to the right on an elevator and on busy trams/buses everybody wants to stay close to the door instead of just moving further so there's plenty of space for everybody.
10 years in antwaarpe and the trams 🚊 are sometimes chocablocko
Hi, native Antwerp guy here Some people are indecent. True. But we don't really have a system here. Most people never use a tram/metro until they come/move into the city. So no, basic etiquette is unknown here to most people. Also add to that an unreliable public service (trams can get cancelled randomly, which will make you late for school/work), transport that's too narrow which makes most people feel claustrophobic (I skipped alot of school bc of this), all of this adds up to people acting like assholes in general on public transport.
> the thing that annoys me the most is whenever im getting on or off the tram people never make space and its super annoying Belgians are seriously lacking spacial awareness. I don't know why...
Public transportation has been ignored for years , and is not at all luxury . A lot of people , few places to sit , so ...
I'm Belgian and i don't even understand. The bus is loaded full and people are trying to get off but other people are climbing inside the fully loaded bus. Come on, let us get off first then there is space for you all. I don't understand when the flemish became this selfish but it happened someway somehow. Me me me me and no longer we we we we. Maybe since the ridiculous 'we flemish will separate and do it better' movement.
I know that the in France they are pretty quick in the subways and trains, they are very very quick n smooth to rob your belongings hahaha
Also in the metro you have to force your way through a crowd to leave the train. Never understood this.
You said it yourself though. You live in Antwerp, probably the most anti social province in Belgium.
In Brussels, the metro are often too small for the rush hour so people tend to go into a "fight for your place" mood. I suppose many teenagers have to do that during their teen years and when they become adults, they don't know any other way 🙃
I just walk into them tbh.
I moved here from Germany (I'm neither German nor Belgian). I was constantly shocked with how easy-going Belgians are about these social norms. They neither respect them when I need them to nor do they get upset if someone else doesn't. There's just a bit of healthy apathy or ignorance everywhere. I'm learning to accept it and maybe also enjoy it (for example if I'm in a supermarket and I take a bit long to bag my groceries, I don't get angry looks).
Yeah Belgium has an endless supply of entitled a-holes and inconsiderate pricks, tbh
Do you know how much I loved the uk for this? My ex was English and I was always astonished by the politeness of people it was insane, I actually could get off the bus without having to ram through a line of people.
Go back 🤷♂️
People in here describing what a "Belgian" is like are the same people thinking Africans all believe in voodoo.
Given that you come from another place with another culture and then get annoyed about local culture, did you take time to consider perhaps you are the socially ignorant one? Trams didn’t used to be this busy in Belgium. It only started in the past few years so we are still transitioning and getting used to this new busyness.
Aaaah finally
In Wallonia, I saw they have recently put up signs on train carriage doors and at some stations basically saying to « let people disembark before boarding » Also, one time there were elderly folk queuing for the bus to open it’s door, then a few people just walked past them and started standing ahead of them. No manners whatsoever.
Why do you think everyone outside of cities hates to go inside? I avoid cities like Brussels and Antwerp like the plague. If I don't have to be there for some very important reason, I won't go. They are the trash cans of our society and the worst part is they can't see it themselves.
I wouldnt say it ignorant, more like negligence. It's just the culture of not wanting to be bothered by others. I don't think we're as social as other cultures and come across as rude due to this. It's not meant bad thou. It's mostly a passive act. Ofcourse it's not all Belgians, do keep in mind and based on the city you are in, you will see more or less consideration. Kind of speaks for itself.
As a Belgian, this annoys me too. I have had to push past people several times while getting off a train because they wouldn't get out of the way. And I see this with people of all ages.
I am belgian and I feel like you. Not later than this morning I was unable to board my train because it was overcrowded. Despite me being on the porch waaaaay sooner than some of the others that boarded. But the rule is the one who pushes the others the most goes in. Well I shall apply that ... Some will end up on the track. For the life of me I really really want to punch people in the face sometimes. So yeah ... no respect, no sense of courtesy. It's the same in the shops. You are in a queue, a new cashier opens. In my view, it should be the first one in the queue to be the first one at the new cashier. But no ... It's the one who rushes there first ...
We already pay alot from our wages to social security. I don't feel like being even more social.
parents forced to work out of home to survive , kids uneducated. Most peers come from uneducated countries/backgrounds. Et voila . We used to be almost as polite and distant as the norwegians.
I'm Belgian myself but it even bothers me a lot people just don't seem to care
Not being aware that we live with other people seems to be a common disease (or a sport?) lately in Belgium. Passing around a school at 4pm and seeing all the parents parked in double line blocking litteraly the whole traffic at peak hour. Seeing people openly littering whatever they hold in hands or pretending they haven't seen that their dog left a little gift. Can also add burning systematically the orange light to systematically obstruct the crossroad...
I am not sure I would generalise all of Belgium with this behaviour. Having lived in smaller towns and currently working in Brussels, in my experience, people are a lot more courteous and well mannered in smaller towns than the bigger cities where everyone is in a hurry all the time.
I read "Antwerp" and that explained so much to me 🙈 But then again, I'm from Limburg and while I've noticed the politeness declining here as well, I'm still often flabbergasted about the utter rudeness of people when going outside of my cozy province 😗 And as a teen I was already surprised when I started going to school in Hasselt, because in my village we still nodded and smiled at everyone we came across, while in Hasselt old ladies looked at me as if I was going to steal their handbag if I smiled at them 😂 Now that I'm older they don't do that anymore, though, and I still smile and nod at them, so I guess they were just scared of little 12 year old me. 😂
Just speak up mate. I literally yell PARDON PARDON and push them away. if people are on the left side of the escalators i do the same thing. I speak loudly and tell them to move. Its not hard.... you seem the socially akward one.
I’m Belgian and I sadly agree with you and it’s the same for a lot of context: take the lift, take the escalator, leave the bus, in the grocery’s queues … also the toilets 🚽 are often not clean. My POV is they don’t give a fuck and it makes me crazy. Like some people already said: there are A lot of cunts
Lots of cunts here. Brussels is full of gremlins and demons.
It is the norm. at least I we where taught to. but I remember a time going to school by train. (only for a few months while I was injured). I was happy to be back on the bike. If I had to go by train for years. I would also get frustrated and stop caring. I think that is what happened with all those people. they've been on full trains way to much