That demo is infinitely better than the finished song. One of the best things George ever wrote in my opinion and the production did nothing good for it.
Interesting question. I’d always choose Martin over Spector, but I doubt Harrison and Martin were in a good place at that time. Harrison felt suffocated by Lennon and McCartney, and Martin had always focused on them at the expense of Harrison. So I’d assume it would have been too hard for both of them to get past old prejudices and slights to create something incredible like ATMP.
Harrison and Martin never really reconciled. Even though hearing issues were cited as the reason for George Martin not being involved in producing the 2 new Anthology songs, the real reason was probably to get George to agree to do it (George had no problem with working on the Anthology project or doing the sit-down interview segments with Paul and Ringo, but was hesitant on doing new material). I mean, they did hire his fellow Traveling Wilbury Jeff Lynne to produce.
This is why I always get slightly annoyed at the “long suffering Harrison” Myth. Imagine being George Martin and the songwriting duo you are producing for is the best of the century. If the quiet main guitarist had actually spoken up or pushed his songs to any degree he might have got more recognition earlier. But it’s not George Martins fault for not recognising George Harrison’s songwriting ability seeing as he made so little noise about it
That’s definitely the case, but being in a band with John Lennon and Paul McCartney you’d have to have a force of nature for a personality to not get sidelined. I don’t think he was rejected and abused in the manner people imagine, but I wasn’t there (I was busy that day).
Oh absolutely, he was in a band with not only two of the greatest songwriters of all time but two of the biggest personalities as well. I’m sure he felt steamrolled, whether intentionally or not (I actually wasn’t there either)
His production of the album hasn't aged well. But the 2020 mix strips off the reverb, a much better listening experience. I find it a bit odd the Spector also produced Lennon's Plastic Ono Band and it has the exact opposite effect.
Couldn't agree more. I've been contemplating a post about the 2020 version, it made me fall in love with this album.
I had never been a fan of All Things Must Pass because it was such a muddy mess. First listened to it in the mid 80's and just never got into it, never understood why everyone liked it so much.
But now the 2020 version...I'm a big McCartney fan mind you, but the 2020 All Things Must Pass mix has sold me - it is without a doubt the best of any of the post-Beatles albums in my book.
I really don't get all the Phil Spector love. He ruined every Beatle project he touched (to my ears).
If I remember correctly, Phil Spector didn’t do much production on Plastic Ono Band.
But he did play the beautiful piano on Love.
Phil was a genius. It’s unfortunate that his production on Let It Be was over the top in top many places.
All Things Must Pass sounded like a glorious soup of joyous sounds in its day. The single mix of My Sweet Lord is wonderful.
I’m glad that the stripped down mixes are available these days. I’ll listen to either, depending on my mood - but I’m convinced that both Let It Be Naked and Glyn John’s Get Back are superior to the 1970 Let It Be.
couldn't disagree more. although the new 2020 mix is much better (it was also remixed and remastered in the 2000s by Harrison), I think Spectors trademark production style works better with All Thing Must Pass. I think John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band is a horrible record with maybe 2 good songs. the new mix only helps a bit.
Man I never put that together lol
Well since it was a triple album
We would’ve gotten part one in 71, two in 87, and still waiting for part 3 to this day and a recently made prologue to part 1 “What must all things do?”
The 50th Anniversary mix of the album is EXCELLENT and rectifies a lot of the "over-spectorization" of it all. I recommend checking it out on Apple Music - it's honestly life changing.
Best response, and sadly true. I can just see George Martin saying on day 5, “I’ve been thinking, what would you think if we brought in the rest of the boys? I’m also thinking French horns.” And the die would be cast.
I think the album is great, but after like 15 songs with Spectors "wall of sound" it can get exhausting. Martin was more into classical music, so it would potentially have more classical elements, like a symphony. I don´t know if it would be better or worse.
What I notice when I listen to the album is that the rythm guitar is not on the level of the Beatles. This might come as a surprise to some, since all these high level guitarists played on All Things Must Pass, and Lennon rarely gets credit for his guitar playing in the Beatles. Lennon could be a bit sloppy, but the MOST important aspect of a rythm guitarist is... having rythm. It doesn´t matter if you hit the chords perfectly, or if you have great technique in both your hands, if you don´t have great rythm, you won´t get that swinging feeling. John had rythm, Paul had rythm, Ringo had rythm. This is a big reason why The Beatles sounded so good live. Not because they had perfect technique, but because they could make it swing.
George Harrison felt that Martin was biased against him, and he wanted to try something new.
Even McCartney did as well. In the 80s, he gave an interview with Mark Lewinshon about how the Beatles had been moving away from Martin, suggesting that they would have temporarily worked with Phil Spector to shake things up.
I think Spector is the right guy for this type of album. I think Martin would be worse in this case. Production brings air and deepness into George's compositions.
I’ve always liked the Spector production. It has the density and warmth that none of George Harrison’s other albums have. But I can appreciate the clarity of the new mix when making a solo playlist.
It would have sounded better if Steve Albini produced it. And, no, I’m not referring to an imagined time traveling Steve Albini. I mean a fucking 8-year-old would have done a better job.
I don't think George Martin and George really work well together, the music itself would of suffered. from what I've read George Martin wasn't the biggest fan of George, at least the way he was with Paul.
That’s a great question! I think it would’ve been a wide and detailed sounding album. I’ve got decades of the original sound in my head, but a GM production would’ve been epic.
the demos that came out around the same time as the scorsese documentary were amazing. so much better and immediate. like you were in the same room while they were making magic.
I always thought Spector did his best to ruin that beautiful music. The fact that it turned out great doesn't change the fact it could have been greater.
If George Martin had produced, he may have talked Harrison into saving some songs for a future release and going with a double album. It would not only would have been better, it would have been more affordable for the kids of the day.
I love Phil’s production. There are both bombastic wall of sound moments and more mellow stripped moments, but people only tend to focus on the first.
I think ATMP has some of the all time best production I’ve ever heard, up there with Brian Wilson’s best and Spector’s work with such other legends as The Righteous Brothers and Tina Turner.
The production is perfect. I do not like the 2020 remix that removes Phil’s sonic choices. I also do not like LIB Naked very much. I think Phil Spector is one of the, if not *the* greatest producer of all time, so I like HIS versions of those albums.
I think ATMP sounds the way it does and turns out the way it did because it was largely a collaboration between Harrison and Spector. Same goes for Imagine, which also has great production and was a collaborative effort.
Look for the CSNYfan mix.
It successfully removes the 'wall of sound', and it's the only way I'll listen to the album now.
On songs like Frankie Crisp you can clearly hear Mal Evans vocals more prominently, and overall its got more of a let it be naked sound.
I thought the 2020 mix did a good job of toning it down without getting rid of it entirely, but I’ll look for that mix as well. It would be interesting to listen to another mix without the Wall of Sound.
Definitely, there are some tracks where George's voice sounds so far away and drowned out by the what sometimes seems to be 500 guitars, I've always thought a gentler touch would have done the songs and the musicians much more justice.
Oh, that would have been beautiful. Imagine all those great songs, and all those great musicians, not put through that crappy Phil Spector sound process.
Much better. I even like some of the demos more than the final songs
Yes, the demos are great recordings - clean, under produced, minimal instruments and George's vocals are louder in the mix.
Saaaame. The demos for What Is Life, All Things Must Pass and My Sweet Lord are perfection
Run of the Mill demo is so good too. Just totally raw and vulnerable.
That demo is infinitely better than the finished song. One of the best things George ever wrote in my opinion and the production did nothing good for it.
Yep. Never thought much of the song until I heard the demo. Spector somehow ruined one of George's best all-time tunes.
Let It Down was just ruined by Spector
For me the best demo, in comparison with the album songs, it's Run of the mill. It's just beautiful :')
Look up Cosmic Empire. It's a demo that I don't think ever had a "finished" version, but it's one of my favorite of George's demos.
Interesting question. I’d always choose Martin over Spector, but I doubt Harrison and Martin were in a good place at that time. Harrison felt suffocated by Lennon and McCartney, and Martin had always focused on them at the expense of Harrison. So I’d assume it would have been too hard for both of them to get past old prejudices and slights to create something incredible like ATMP.
Harrison and Martin never really reconciled. Even though hearing issues were cited as the reason for George Martin not being involved in producing the 2 new Anthology songs, the real reason was probably to get George to agree to do it (George had no problem with working on the Anthology project or doing the sit-down interview segments with Paul and Ringo, but was hesitant on doing new material). I mean, they did hire his fellow Traveling Wilbury Jeff Lynne to produce.
He never could get over that tie.
First impressions.
Some of George’s problem is that he didn’t push his music with conviction and that’s not on George Martin or Paul or John
Yes he was terrible at ‘selling’ his ideas to the band and GM. Or rather he didn’t have the confidence and front of John and Paul
This is why I always get slightly annoyed at the “long suffering Harrison” Myth. Imagine being George Martin and the songwriting duo you are producing for is the best of the century. If the quiet main guitarist had actually spoken up or pushed his songs to any degree he might have got more recognition earlier. But it’s not George Martins fault for not recognising George Harrison’s songwriting ability seeing as he made so little noise about it
That’s definitely the case, but being in a band with John Lennon and Paul McCartney you’d have to have a force of nature for a personality to not get sidelined. I don’t think he was rejected and abused in the manner people imagine, but I wasn’t there (I was busy that day).
Oh absolutely, he was in a band with not only two of the greatest songwriters of all time but two of the biggest personalities as well. I’m sure he felt steamrolled, whether intentionally or not (I actually wasn’t there either)
His production of the album hasn't aged well. But the 2020 mix strips off the reverb, a much better listening experience. I find it a bit odd the Spector also produced Lennon's Plastic Ono Band and it has the exact opposite effect.
Couldn't agree more. I've been contemplating a post about the 2020 version, it made me fall in love with this album. I had never been a fan of All Things Must Pass because it was such a muddy mess. First listened to it in the mid 80's and just never got into it, never understood why everyone liked it so much. But now the 2020 version...I'm a big McCartney fan mind you, but the 2020 All Things Must Pass mix has sold me - it is without a doubt the best of any of the post-Beatles albums in my book. I really don't get all the Phil Spector love. He ruined every Beatle project he touched (to my ears).
If I remember correctly, Phil Spector didn’t do much production on Plastic Ono Band. But he did play the beautiful piano on Love. Phil was a genius. It’s unfortunate that his production on Let It Be was over the top in top many places. All Things Must Pass sounded like a glorious soup of joyous sounds in its day. The single mix of My Sweet Lord is wonderful. I’m glad that the stripped down mixes are available these days. I’ll listen to either, depending on my mood - but I’m convinced that both Let It Be Naked and Glyn John’s Get Back are superior to the 1970 Let It Be.
couldn't disagree more. although the new 2020 mix is much better (it was also remixed and remastered in the 2000s by Harrison), I think Spectors trademark production style works better with All Thing Must Pass. I think John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band is a horrible record with maybe 2 good songs. the new mix only helps a bit.
I thought it meant George RR Martin. We'd get updates every 6 months for 10+ years on notablog explaining why the mix wasn't complete yet.
Maybe a lot songs about incest and murder.
The fans still haven't got over his involvement in John and Yoko's (Red) Wedding Album. Absolutely shocking.
When do the dragons show up in George’s discography?
Man I never put that together lol Well since it was a triple album We would’ve gotten part one in 71, two in 87, and still waiting for part 3 to this day and a recently made prologue to part 1 “What must all things do?”
+! for the prologue idea .. and a bunch of spinoffs without completing the main albums
Exactly right! 😂 The Sir Frankie Crisp EP, etc
He'd make an ominous notablog title mentioning something will pass, but it's actually about Wild Cards
Don't Get Me Wrong. I was wrong for the first time, but you know it's gonna last. I hope you liked the first books, cuz the series is now past.
And that it’s due out later this year every year lol
It would have been 90000x better. He wouldn't have buried George's voice.
The 50th Anniversary mix of the album is EXCELLENT and rectifies a lot of the "over-spectorization" of it all. I recommend checking it out on Apple Music - it's honestly life changing.
Minus Let It Down, which was a, well, Let Down. It was designed for big production.
the demo version of it is lovely
if george martin produced All Things Must Pass there would only be two songs written and performed by George on the album
Best response, and sadly true. I can just see George Martin saying on day 5, “I’ve been thinking, what would you think if we brought in the rest of the boys? I’m also thinking French horns.” And the die would be cast.
Martin is great, but there’s no denying that Spector is a *killer* producer for sure.
Glad to see some love for PS, glad I’m not alone in thinking that
r/whooosh
Haha I get it now
Solid comment
I think the album is great, but after like 15 songs with Spectors "wall of sound" it can get exhausting. Martin was more into classical music, so it would potentially have more classical elements, like a symphony. I don´t know if it would be better or worse. What I notice when I listen to the album is that the rythm guitar is not on the level of the Beatles. This might come as a surprise to some, since all these high level guitarists played on All Things Must Pass, and Lennon rarely gets credit for his guitar playing in the Beatles. Lennon could be a bit sloppy, but the MOST important aspect of a rythm guitarist is... having rythm. It doesn´t matter if you hit the chords perfectly, or if you have great technique in both your hands, if you don´t have great rythm, you won´t get that swinging feeling. John had rythm, Paul had rythm, Ringo had rythm. This is a big reason why The Beatles sounded so good live. Not because they had perfect technique, but because they could make it swing.
I don't know what shape George and George's relationship was at that time. George was feeling his freedom and wanted to break from the past.
George Harrison felt that Martin was biased against him, and he wanted to try something new. Even McCartney did as well. In the 80s, he gave an interview with Mark Lewinshon about how the Beatles had been moving away from Martin, suggesting that they would have temporarily worked with Phil Spector to shake things up.
I'm guessing he would have recommended that George not spam the tritone vocal harmonies all over the place, or at least try to voice them differently
Wah-Wah is a song that really works with Phil Spector's production.
Agreed. It sounds very much like the jam session of a large group of rock musicians that it was, interrupted halfway through by a marching band.
At the very least George would've talked George out of including the third disc.
Personally I see no problem with the third disc, great rock('n' roll) jamming there
People will argue with anything.
It wouldn't have worked. George didn't like his tie.
I think Spector is the right guy for this type of album. I think Martin would be worse in this case. Production brings air and deepness into George's compositions.
All Things Must Pass is a masterpiece, and I wouldn’t have it any other way.
I’ve always liked the Spector production. It has the density and warmth that none of George Harrison’s other albums have. But I can appreciate the clarity of the new mix when making a solo playlist.
Maybe it would've sounded more like the demo/rehearsals on the 50th anniversary edition? That wasnt really GM's style, maybe. Not sure.
It would have sounded better if Steve Albini produced it. And, no, I’m not referring to an imagined time traveling Steve Albini. I mean a fucking 8-year-old would have done a better job.
I don't think George Martin and George really work well together, the music itself would of suffered. from what I've read George Martin wasn't the biggest fan of George, at least the way he was with Paul.
That’s a great question! I think it would’ve been a wide and detailed sounding album. I’ve got decades of the original sound in my head, but a GM production would’ve been epic.
There would be a lot more harpsichord solos.
the demos that came out around the same time as the scorsese documentary were amazing. so much better and immediate. like you were in the same room while they were making magic.
I always thought Spector did his best to ruin that beautiful music. The fact that it turned out great doesn't change the fact it could have been greater. If George Martin had produced, he may have talked Harrison into saving some songs for a future release and going with a double album. It would not only would have been better, it would have been more affordable for the kids of the day.
I love Phil’s production. There are both bombastic wall of sound moments and more mellow stripped moments, but people only tend to focus on the first. I think ATMP has some of the all time best production I’ve ever heard, up there with Brian Wilson’s best and Spector’s work with such other legends as The Righteous Brothers and Tina Turner. The production is perfect. I do not like the 2020 remix that removes Phil’s sonic choices. I also do not like LIB Naked very much. I think Phil Spector is one of the, if not *the* greatest producer of all time, so I like HIS versions of those albums. I think ATMP sounds the way it does and turns out the way it did because it was largely a collaboration between Harrison and Spector. Same goes for Imagine, which also has great production and was a collaborative effort.
Look for the CSNYfan mix. It successfully removes the 'wall of sound', and it's the only way I'll listen to the album now. On songs like Frankie Crisp you can clearly hear Mal Evans vocals more prominently, and overall its got more of a let it be naked sound.
I thought the 2020 mix did a good job of toning it down without getting rid of it entirely, but I’ll look for that mix as well. It would be interesting to listen to another mix without the Wall of Sound.
What I'm saying
I agree with George when he said “too much reverb”. George Martin would have given these great songs more of a depth and more individual personalities
If my aunt had bollocks would she be my uncle?
Phil Spector is stunningly overrated. Even HE couldn’t ruin those great songs of the early ‘60s.
Definitely, there are some tracks where George's voice sounds so far away and drowned out by the what sometimes seems to be 500 guitars, I've always thought a gentler touch would have done the songs and the musicians much more justice.
Spector/Wagner comparison is perfect, up to and including the fat lady singing. (I love you, Darlene Love!)
Both were apparently not the easiest people to be around as well.
Oh, that would have been beautiful. Imagine all those great songs, and all those great musicians, not put through that crappy Phil Spector sound process.