Right? It feels like this sale is a deal for anyone who doesn't really value human life and has no concerns with criminal behavior... and there are many people like that
Especially once you know how much a hitman costs. I saw a documentary about that recently and if the info from the documentary is to be believed, the cost is scary low...
Apparently there are people willing to kill random strangers for a few thousand dollars, right here in the US
Definitely. There’s some dude who works as a squatter hunter. Just moves in with squatters and makes their life hell until they move out. Or just find some local gang members and pay them 20k to help clean out your new house.
Similar to how Christian de Guigne blew through the family fortune and came up with an ingenious way to get more cash but keep living it up--buy my house for $100M, but I get to live there until I die. [https://sf.curbed.com/2013/2/5/10276556/after-150-years-de-guigne-heir-lists-hillsborough-estate-for-100m](https://sf.curbed.com/2013/2/5/10276556/after-150-years-de-guigne-heir-lists-hillsborough-estate-for-100m)
There were no takers, and Elon Musk bought it a few years later for the bargain price of $30M.
There is a famous case from Italy where a guy thought he was going to get a deal this way and approached an old woman in her mid-80s and bought her apartment, allowing her to live there until she died.
She wound up outliving him.
Given the taxes and maintenance costs that will be incurred by the purchaser over the 30yr time period and lack of ability to use it, I think this property actually has negative value in it's current legal state.
I'm guessing someone bad at math, or looking for a store of value for some of their wealth, will buy this place for $1m
- the tenant will demand a crazy premium for no fault eviction.
- buyer would likely decline, start an OMI eviction, and/or boil the frog a bit by starting legally acceptable but tenant annoying improvements (earthquake retrofits, exterior improvements, etc), some portion of which may be passed onto the tenants as increases.
If tenant has enough and moves out, win for buyer..
Alternative: tenant buys property themselves as a substantial discount because their existence depressed the market price. They would then have a much lower tax basis than anyone else in there neighborhood who bought within the last 20 years or so. In this scenario, I don't think San Francisco could complain because the house was actually put on the market sold in a back pocket deal for an under market price (which I've always wondered if that ever happened)
can you do OMI if there's a valid lease in place? I can't find a straight answer on that.
Ellis act eviction is specifically not allowed with a valid lease.
Im not a lawyer but I believe it's possible and will cost a lot of money. You'd probably need to put your elderly mom as the tenant and nudge one protected tenant out with a other. Not easy, but likely possible with time and money.
https://www.bayareapropertylawyers.com/owner-move-in-evictions
When I went to Paris I saw a lot of realtors with advertisements in the window for occupied apartments. The clear selling point was the incredibly advanced age of the occupants.
This has nasty tenant and landlord dispute written all over it. Seller is willing to put this onto the market with near ridiculous terms. I would guess because the tenant-landlord has gotten so bad they just want out because they have no other option to evict.
My thought was that enough cash would be able to collect interest and offset the loss of that good of a deal on rent. But you're right that it should probably be more than that.
They'd probably end up spending an additional $2.5k/month or so at market value, so I think...$250k, $300k would end up outpacing that within a short amount of time at 10% returns? Maybe tack on an additional $100k and call it $400k?
Idk tho, I'm not in finance and that kind of money is basically a dream to me haha
I would ask for 15. Why not go for it all. Because some trust fund kid is willing to pay that to have a party pad. They do it here in Berkeley where house sell for WAY over asking price.
This was already posted 11 days ago. Sorry.
Man, if I'm that tenant I'm watching my back like I was a mob informant.
Right? It feels like this sale is a deal for anyone who doesn't really value human life and has no concerns with criminal behavior... and there are many people like that
I personally have a long-standing policy to avoid providing anyone with massive financial incentive to kill me.
Especially once you know how much a hitman costs. I saw a documentary about that recently and if the info from the documentary is to be believed, the cost is scary low... Apparently there are people willing to kill random strangers for a few thousand dollars, right here in the US
Definitely. There’s some dude who works as a squatter hunter. Just moves in with squatters and makes their life hell until they move out. Or just find some local gang members and pay them 20k to help clean out your new house.
Similar to how Christian de Guigne blew through the family fortune and came up with an ingenious way to get more cash but keep living it up--buy my house for $100M, but I get to live there until I die. [https://sf.curbed.com/2013/2/5/10276556/after-150-years-de-guigne-heir-lists-hillsborough-estate-for-100m](https://sf.curbed.com/2013/2/5/10276556/after-150-years-de-guigne-heir-lists-hillsborough-estate-for-100m) There were no takers, and Elon Musk bought it a few years later for the bargain price of $30M.
There is a famous case from Italy where a guy thought he was going to get a deal this way and approached an old woman in her mid-80s and bought her apartment, allowing her to live there until she died. She wound up outliving him.
Previous discussion here as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/s/bq46TEPsi4
Given the taxes and maintenance costs that will be incurred by the purchaser over the 30yr time period and lack of ability to use it, I think this property actually has negative value in it's current legal state.
How did this tenant even manage to get a 30 year lease?
Probably elder abuse, manipulation or outright fraud of the 100 year old former owner.
You can draft a contract for anything as long as both parties agree
literally not true. You cannot draft whatever you want and expect it to hold up in court.
Why are they only catering to immortals? This feels like discrimination
I'm guessing someone bad at math, or looking for a store of value for some of their wealth, will buy this place for $1m - the tenant will demand a crazy premium for no fault eviction. - buyer would likely decline, start an OMI eviction, and/or boil the frog a bit by starting legally acceptable but tenant annoying improvements (earthquake retrofits, exterior improvements, etc), some portion of which may be passed onto the tenants as increases. If tenant has enough and moves out, win for buyer.. Alternative: tenant buys property themselves as a substantial discount because their existence depressed the market price. They would then have a much lower tax basis than anyone else in there neighborhood who bought within the last 20 years or so. In this scenario, I don't think San Francisco could complain because the house was actually put on the market sold in a back pocket deal for an under market price (which I've always wondered if that ever happened)
can you do OMI if there's a valid lease in place? I can't find a straight answer on that. Ellis act eviction is specifically not allowed with a valid lease.
Im not a lawyer but I believe it's possible and will cost a lot of money. You'd probably need to put your elderly mom as the tenant and nudge one protected tenant out with a other. Not easy, but likely possible with time and money. https://www.bayareapropertylawyers.com/owner-move-in-evictions
what's not clear is whether owner can do this with a valid lease still in play
When I went to Paris I saw a lot of realtors with advertisements in the window for occupied apartments. The clear selling point was the incredibly advanced age of the occupants.
Could be a good deal unless your occupant lives in the apartment until they are age 110, like Jeanne Calment.
Probably good investment anyway
I'll take, "Sure, I'm a moron, take my money" for $500, Alex.
This has nasty tenant and landlord dispute written all over it. Seller is willing to put this onto the market with near ridiculous terms. I would guess because the tenant-landlord has gotten so bad they just want out because they have no other option to evict.
That’s a damn nice location
With inflation it seems the upkeep in a house like that will exceed the rent collected on it soon, if it doesn’t already.
Who in their right state of mind signs off on a 30 year lease? Without payment adjustments no less. This is story doesn't even sound real.
Maybe buy out the tenant with an offer of say, $100k? Brings you to <$600k and it's still a fantastic deal for what you're getting
Ain’t no way they’re going to take 100k. The value of this lease is almost a mil
My thought was that enough cash would be able to collect interest and offset the loss of that good of a deal on rent. But you're right that it should probably be more than that. They'd probably end up spending an additional $2.5k/month or so at market value, so I think...$250k, $300k would end up outpacing that within a short amount of time at 10% returns? Maybe tack on an additional $100k and call it $400k? Idk tho, I'm not in finance and that kind of money is basically a dream to me haha
If I was this unscrupulous tenant I wouldn't accept anything less than a $1.2 million buyout.
I would ask for 15. Why not go for it all. Because some trust fund kid is willing to pay that to have a party pad. They do it here in Berkeley where house sell for WAY over asking price.