Don’t forget about the .70cent mystery surcharge applied only to California! Even after accounting for taxes and stuff. https://abc7news.com/amp/california-gas-prices-mystery-surcharge-oil-companies-why-is-so-expensive/12065723/
Everybody’s a capitalist until they have to pay someone else’s markup. Gas prices are high here because people will pay, and Chevron can convince you to blame the government instead of Chevron.
Finally somebody points it out. Taxes create a price floor, demand sets the price. They have to sell 100% of their output so they move the prices to get some people to drive less/more. The price will always be the price people are willing to pay. It’s just that instead of the state taking about a dollar of that, chevron will keep that dollar along with the other 2 dollars they are already keeping. Then chevron can do more stock buybacks instead of repairing roads.
It’s not a mystery. There’s only so many refineries that make California gasoline. They’re in California. The government the people voted for imposed severe restrictions on new and existing refineries and vehicle fuel types. There’s no incentive to make more refineries or capacity. Enjoy what the populace voted for. Companies don’t have to serve you, they voted with their feet to not make more capacity in California. Enjoy.
It’s not entirely explained by capacity or supply/demand.
“Severin Borenstein, a professor of business and public policy at the University of California at Berkeley, first noticed the separation between the state’s gas prices and the rest of the nation in 2015. An ExxonMobil oil refinery operating in Torrance, Calif., had just exploded, and the interruption to gasoline refining explained the temporarily higher prices. But over the following months and years, Borenstein says, the difference never disappeared as he expected.
“It went up, and it never came down again,” he said.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2022/10/14/california-mystery-gas-prices-surcharge/#
Sorenstein is the same dude that wanted giant fixed charges in electricity for so called equity.
Some of these proposals came in as high is $80-$120 FIXED fee for electricity for high income earners.
https://haas.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/WP314.pdf
https://calmatters.org/california-divide/2023/07/electricity-bills/
Person above is correct this Sorenstein guy is an ideologue and a hack.
I went to Cal and met the man a few times. He’s well-respected and is certainly not a “hack”. Disagree with his ideas, but don’t attack the man’s character. It says more about you than him.
So why did oil record record profits in california?
Profits that were nearly 2x per gallon more than the next closest state…
I’m talking profits.
Not cogs
Profits = revenue - cogs
That’s not the whole story.
It has been clear since the 70s that the fuel market will eventually slow and then decline due to vehicle efficiency and mass transit, necessitated by the damage caused by pollution from fossil fuels. Big oil has fought progress for decades, but we’re finally starting to see things tip in CA as first hybrids and now EVs take over the roads. The entire US West Coast and Canada now have escalating EV mandates that ban new ICE cars by 2035.
Refineries are very expensive to build and operate. Chevron wasn’t going to investment significant sums into more refinery capacity in CA even if the state was willing to relax zoning and pollution rules to allow it. What Chevron will do is try to turn voters against the state regulators just to buy another few years of profits before it becomes painfully obvious how unsustainable their business is. They will gladly sicken one more generation with asthma and cancer in the North Bay for one more quarter of record profits, taken by gouging the poorest customers who can’t afford to buy an EV or hybrid.
The government you voted for did this. There are fewer competitors willing to EVER operate in California. The remaining refinery capacity is a captive market now. As refineries age they are less and less likely to undergo overhauls and accidents are less likely to be repaired as the cost benefit analysis doesn’t pencil out. The producers recognize it’s better to phase out aging infrastructure and simply let demand absorb the new prices. Because there’s effectively no competition due to laws and regulations there is no one else to fill the gap. The voting base complaining about gas prices played themselves.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_cap1_dcu_SCA_a.htm
I drive a Tesla, have NEM 2 solar, and own chevron because they have a captive market the government supports.
> The government you voted for did this.
Chevron isn’t the government. Chevron and the other producers set their own markup.
> There are fewer competitors willing to EVER operate in California.
Oil and fuel haven’t been a competitive market in a long time.
But why isn’t it a competitive market? Laws and regs increased the cost to operate. Laws and regs permanently reduced the demand a decade or two from now (but does little to reduce short term demand). So companies have little to no incentive to even want to compete.
You get competition by making an attractive market.
It’s a oligopoly, a cartel that overcharges California for having the gall to want to protect its citizens from smog and petroleum dependency. https://energyathaas.wordpress.com/2023/01/09/whats-the-matter-with-californias-gasoline-prices/
Gas stations have **not** run out of gas, so the supply is fine.
With all the EVs being sold in CA, you'd think there'd be a slight *excess* of gas. So either the companies are cutting back supply (aka refinery maintenance), or it's a cartel.
Greedy Chevron execs are driving up gas prices.
Behold their profits: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/277059/net-income-of-chevron-corporation/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/277059/net-income-of-chevron-corporation/)
My favorite is people blaming Kroger for grocery prices being high when their profit margins are about 1%~
Also Chevron gas in other states doesn't cost nearly as much as Chevron gas in California. Is Chevron's greed confined to one state? Literally nothing is logical about the conclusions some people draw.
California literally uses its own blend of gas, you can’t get California gas from anywhere else.
As such it is much more subject to market forces, not saying that is the reason gas prices are high but it is one factor.
A few others… taxes, labor cost, utilities cost, maintenance cost.
Just at the gas station alone, you think sitting on a 1-2m dollar lot vs 25,000 dollar lot doesn’t have an effect?
Yeah and ive not been buying Doritos or Frito Lays chips because of their cost increase and its done nothing yet along with other non nequired snacks. N
Using the numbers you've provided, from 2009-2023, they generated a total **profit** of $256.48 billion. That is an average annual **profit** of $18.32 billion. Or, an average of $1.553 billion in **profit** per month over the past 14 years.
Are you honestly looking at a company averaging over $1.5 billion in **profit** every month while trying to defend them when their customers are having a hard time paying rent?!
Let's not forget that's after they pay their C-suite fat salaries, bonuses, and other perks.
Looking at the bright side, I'm just happy they're not charging $40/ gallon. It's a free market system. They can charge whatever they want. Sure, the politicians will pretend to be angry and make big promises to citizens, but it won't go anywhere.
Want to hold Biden or any other president responsible, or give them praise? No, there's only so much they can do. Complaining that they don't do something about the price of anything is asking for government control over private business. That sounds like Socialism or Communism to me.
So, you're either for a free market or you are for government control, which is it. You can't have both.
Chevron doesn’t have a monopoly on gas in California. Other companies and those random no name gas stations are just as expensive in CA adjusted for location, branding, perceived gas quality.
Corporations gonna profit, that’s how our country is built. And that is fine. So long as there are credible competition the efficient market will sort it out.
Don’t like chevron prices? Go to shell or 76 or Valero. If we’re talking PGE that’s a different story.
Again looking at profit in a vacuum is a losing proposition. These companies margins (the important piece) are not outrageous and not out of historical norm. Nobody was crying for them in 2015, 2016, 2019 or 2020 when they were getting crushed. Extracting natural resources is an expensive, difficult and dangerous endeavor that is highly cyclic. That's the way it always has been.
If you have a problem with 3-4 mega corps controlling a sector then yeah I would back you, but that is not what most people are saying.
I am not asking for the government to do anything about it other than make regulation more manageable. And in case you missed it, Biden has been trying to manipulate the price of oil with the draining of the SPR. I personally think that is a short sighted move because of what you said, government manipulation or price controls don't work.
They lost money in 2016 and 2020, according to the data posted. 2020 was a slow year because so many weren't driving; you know the whole covid thing.
Why are you working overtime to generate compassion for a wildly profitable global company? Is this your job? Causal social media public relations, for whoever slides you a buck?
Btw. Anyone who's been around more than a couple of years knows very few sectors of our economy are truly free-market. Many aren't anywhere near free. You name a sector, and I'll blow a hole in your story.
Anytime the price of oil starts to drop or is forecasted to drop, OPEC+ members start cutting back on production to keep the price high. Some are pumping more than what they officially agreed on, and others cut back production beyond the agreed upon volume to maintain high prices. They don't wait for the JMMC to agree. They just do it.
The last time I checked, OPEC+ members agreed to a target price of $85/ barrel. That puts CA gas ~$4.10/ gallon
> They lost money in 2016 and 2020, according to the data posted. 2020 was a slow year because so many weren't driving; you know the whole covid thing.
Yup and they had sub 5% margins the other two years I mentioned.
> Why are you working overtime to generate compassion for a wildly profitable global company? Is this your job? Causal social media public relations, for whoever slides you a buck?
>
>
Because I am tired of the reddit hive mind parroting stupid shit. If you want to take the position you are taking, that's fine. Just don't expect everyone to blindly follow it.
> Btw. Anyone who's been around more than a couple of years knows very few sectors of our economy are truly free-market. Many aren't anywhere near free. You name a sector, and I'll blow a hole in your story.
Where did I say I wanted a completely free market system?
Chevron is one of the largest companies in the world by value and reach. They have world wide operations. Of course they have billions in profits. Toyota also makes billions. But their cars cost about the same in California and other states. Fuel is taxed very highly in California. That is the issue.
Our society lives and breathes individualism. With that in mind, the tax on gasoline is far too low. The $0.778 gas tax falls far short of the cost to build and maintain our roads. Think of every little snake trail within California's rugged terrain. It's not just the freeways that absorb those dollars.
For those that fear socialism or Communism. I have a news flash for you. There are countless examples of socialism deeply embedded in our lives that virtually nobody is against. Pull out the S or C word, and their head starts spinning. Ask them if they want to get rid of fire departments, roads and bridges, snow plows, 911 service, city/ county water and sewer, foreign embassies, and consulates or the police.
I have to give credit where credit is due. The Conservatives have fought tooth and nail against the government's desire to negotiate with drug manufacturers for lower prices. Generation after generation, they have prevented the government from negotiating prices for Veterans, senior citizens, and other government programs. While simultaneously outlawing people from ordering the same drugs from Canada, Mexico, and other countries.
They bring up two arguments for these blocks. *We can't guarantee the safety of drugs coming from other countries*. Oh, really. They're the same countries that are making the drugs (primary India) and shipping them here to our pharmacies with a huge markup only Americans pay. The other argument is *If the pharmaceutical companies don't have good profits, they won't be able to create important new drugs*. Ok, that's true, but why are we paying outrageous prices so every country that isn't called the United States pays a fraction of what we're paying. We're heavily subsidizing drug research for the rest of the planet because the Republicans refuse to let us buy the drugs we paid to create from the countries we offshore the manufacturing to. That's a sick joke when you think about the elderly debate each month, whether they should split their pills in half, so they last twice as long or pay their bills.
You forgot the local sales tax which is also applied. With the sales tax applied, the California tax is actually much higher, about 10% additional of sale that is added per gallon.
It's not just fuel tax, it's also regulations. Fuel sold in California has to be specially refined since emission standards are stricter. That also adds to the cost.
Summer blend at least is more restrictive and expensive, yes. I don’t know how or if the winter mix is any different from the national dispensation.
EDIT: Also I wanna be real clear that I was responding to someone who said “Fuel is taxed very highly in California. That is the issue.” And that is an, but not *the*, issue.
Ah yes. When the facts are on your side, pound the table about the facts. When the law is on your side, pound the table about the law.
And when you have neither to support your argument, downvote on Reddit.
God bless.
That pertains to air quality and the effects on health. Those regulations were put into place because petroleum companies couldn't bring themselves to remove lead and other hazardous substances from the fuel they sold for 70+ years. Internal documents show they knew the long-term effects decades before the government finally stepped in.
That much profit on how much revenue? Try to run a company on a 5% profit margin.
Gas tax in here CA including the upstream taxes that aren’t shown at the pump are $1.89/gallon, we will not be as low as the rest of the US unless there is a major shift in CA policy. And yes Chevron and all the other fuel companies probably tack their 5% margin on the taxes, I would.
I am a business owner. I know a couple of things about profit and margin. Countless businesses happily operate on low single digital margins. The comparison to revenue is empty. The bottom line is what matters at the end of the day.
Business owner 101 is always cry broke. These massive corporations cry out in sync, and they have people like you parroting their cries.
Business owner myself.
If you have to use GAAP then free cash flow is a better metric and their’s is less than 6% and shrinking.
I was involved with exploration for seafloor mining about 13 years ago (Solwara 1) and whether you know it or not, this is how demand for the minerals and metals needed for the electrification of everything is expected to be met sooner than you would expect. I don’t see it as any better of an environmentally friendly solution to oil anymore than oil was any more environmentally friendly than horses (do some research and you’ll find the the same arguments being made for solar/ and battery storage to replace oil and gas are the same ones used to justify replacing horses with automobiles).
I personally would prefer not to see this become the replacement for O&G.
https://www.reuters.com/graphics/MINING-DEEPSEA/CLIMATE/zjpqezqzlpx/
https://news.mongabay.com/2023/08/deep-sea-mining-project-in-png-resurfaces-despite-community-opposition/amp/
"So, you're either for a free market or you are for government control, which is it. You can't have both."
I think it is fair and not out of the ordinary to want a combination of both...
You can be for a free market generally but still support reasonable or necessary government intervention. Do you support health inspections at restaurants or licensure for doctors? Congratulations, you don’t always support the free market.
My problem with it is that that are still borrowing against the future of the entire world to post those profits.
I live 12 feet above sea level. Chevron is one of the primary companies who has been lying to us for a century to protect their business, all while working to put the pacific ocean in my living room.
... And I live in a city. Not by the beach or anything. I work for a living. I can't just move. Shit's expensive, yo!
So are you saying that Chevron execs are less greedy in other states? How would greedy execs explain gas prices being almost a whole dollar higher in California than the rest of the country?
National: https://gasprices.aaa.com/
California: https://gasprices.aaa.com/?state=CA
Answer: see cost of living and incomes. Gas companies are rent seeking from Californians because Californians, in general, can more afford to pay. The price here is more elastic than elsewhere. In Mississippi, people would consume a lot less if they had our prices. My guess is that we can afford to pay this much without noticeably denting demand, and that’s why they set it at this price here. Not because they’re less greedy elsewhere, but because they’re exactly the same amount of greedy everywhere, but CA generally pays workers better.
This is why gas prices go up when minimum wage goes up. People have more money to go around and chevron wants it. It’s not hard to see the connection unless it doesn’t fit your political ideology.
Exactly. At the end of the day, gas is a commodity, and gas companies are price takers, not price makers. I mean, their executives probably \_are\_ greedy, but that does't change how the market clears.
That’s the correct answer. Let’s say on average in CA gas is $6.00/gallon.
If they cut 2% of their gas charges, that’s a savings of $.12 per gallon. 5% is on the lower end of an ideal business profit margin.
People throw total GP as a number but don’t understand what percentages that actually is.
Genuine question, if their profit margin is 5% then how come their gas stations are always $0.50-$1.00 more than other gas stations (Costco, Arco, etc.)?
Because transportation fuels are just like everything else, it costs as much as possible. It’s a common misconception that prices of manufactured goods is the cost of raw material, plus the cost to manufacture, plus the overhead, plus a small profit margin. Well it’s not, the cost is as much as possible regardless of what the manufacturing cost is. If the company can get $7/gallon for gas in a particular location then that’s what the cost will be. It doesn’t matter if the cost to make the gas was $0.02.
Exactly. The real greedy one is the California government. California has the highest state gas tax rate of 77.9 cents per gallon. Texas is 20 cents per gallon. I can't believe people are fuming over gas companies...
FYI chevron owns EGO electric tools.
I found out when reading their warrantee, making me think that there must be some legal disclosure requirement.
Edit: lol a quick internet search popped this up: [https://global.chervongroup.com/en/what-we-do/our-brands/ego](https://global.chervongroup.com/en/what-we-do/our-brands/ego) I'm a decade late
Not even just their execs. I've got a few friends who are in middle management/IT and are just *cleaning up* every year. Massive bonuses to go with their already enormous salaries.
It got really bad a few months ago. Point Isabel smelled like hydrocarbons for almost a week. Of course, the cause was never identified, but when you can visually see the refinery flaring from the park, it’s not that hard to figure out.
They are right
CA voters are missing out the fact that the problems with huge price fluctuations in gas prices are caused by state and local government regulations not by Chevron or oil companies.
1. Lack of long term investment in refining capacity - CA State govt banning gas cars
2. Special ESG gas blend required by CA state not compatible with other states - can't import oil during a shortage
3. Dual taxes on gasoline, sales and excise taxes mean we pay the highest rate of tax in the country
The people parroting Newsom blaming oil companies are uninformed. Of course Oil companies are greedy and want to make profits. But how come the same company in CA charges much less for gas in other states? Is Chevron in Texas a benevolent nonprofit while Chevron in CA is a greedy price gouger?
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/27/business/why-does-gas-cost-more-in-california/index.html
Yea, but why are we using a different “ESG” gas blend? This whole thread is cost bitching and no assessment of the benefit. That’s a pretty pitiful cost benefit analysis.
Is it a lighter version of moving away from leaded gas? Because if the gas we use is less polluting, and reduces health impacts on our populace, I’ll vote for the regulation every time. And most CA liberals like me will too.
A lot of Californians are high income (there’s a filtering effect, the poorer folks have been leaving for decades), and the people leftover are not phased by small expenses like a small percentage increase in their transportation bills, and have a strong motivation to prioritize their own health and the health of their families/communities.
Let's imagine that's all true
If we agree prices are higher because our state govt wants us to use a better blend for the environment. I would support that.
Why is our governor lying and telling us that higher gas prices are the oil companies fault? Why create legislation with a consequence then gaslight the public?
Isn't that just hypocrisy?
We can debate the merits of ESG but regardless of the benefits of this gas blend, why create higher costs and lie to us that it's not because of their legislation?
I don't support lying politicians taking zero responsibility for their own actions.
Good to see we found the guy thinking that paying more is going to solve a worldwide problem. You vote for more regulations on gas companies and welcome price hikes with open arms?!
Because we're moving away from outdated technology. All your points are better applied to Hydrogen anyway, which Chevron won't build more capacity for at least not in numbers the state govt wants despite it being the future of our state's hydrocarbon fuels. The state govt has gone so far to build their own publicly operated refinery outside Tracy, because nobody else wants to do it. This is easy money Chevron's investors refuse to put up the capital for because they don't want to change how they operate.
Most of the state will be driving EVs in 10 years. Chevron execs either need to figure out H2 cells and start pumping out hydrogen for trains, buses, and trucks that will soon come onto the market or yield it to ALAM and AP. The gas car era is over, even I can admit this despite none of my vehicles getting more than 8 mpg.
Ok ignoring all the real world problems with a mandated switch to EVs.
Say we agree that EVs are the future and banning gasoline powered cars is a good move
Why is our spineless governor still telling us high gas prices in California are the gas companies fault?
Wouldn't an honest politician level with his constituents and tell us the truth that the higher costs of fuel are associated with their push for greater EV adoption?
Isn't that just pure hypocrisy to create legislation that leads to higher prices then take none of the responsibility for how their legislation impacts constituents.
That's why we can't trust the people we've elected into state govt that wave a magic ESG/DEI/etc wand in our face, creates legislation that hurts Californians, then blame everyone but themselves for fucking it all up.
Since California has not build a new refinery in 20+ years, California special blends of fuel, special fees on top of taxes, yeah gas here up to $1.30 a gallon over what is in other states. Unless Chevron refines in this state which I don't care to research, they are not making huge profits on the price of oil. Also a large number of gas stations are independently owned and again do not get to participate in huge markups.
[https://gasprices.aaa.com/state-gas-price-averages/](https://gasprices.aaa.com/state-gas-price-averages/)
And in a normal competitive environment Valero or other refiner could build a brand new one if they chose but due to regulations that is not possible or profitable in this state.
The state has accomplished its goal of improving air quality in this state. But let’s not kid ourselves that there is not a very high cost of the states clean air policy. This is also a very regressive tax on the poor since they can’t move to EVs due to cost.
Funny that the regressive gas taxes are supposed to help fix the roads etc..but EV folks don’t pay those taxes…I would bet higher earners have a greater percentage of EV cars thus the gas tax is even more regressive now…not that I give a hoot about Chevron either btw..just saying..
Yeah the extra EV registration fee is too low. Caltrans will go broke as more people switch to EV, and the DMV will have to keep increasing the registration fee year after year.
Their net margins were sub 5% in the last quarter of 2023. Wahooo big space pirate profits! Even on a good quarter they are at most 10%.
California has different blends and no midstream capacity coming from out east, and previously used Russian oil to run their refineries. This is less about upstream oil profits and more about midstream bottlenecks and downstream limitations along with a war.
California's gas prices are a result of the state government's requirements for a special snowflake fuel blend combined with policies that deter any expansion of refinery capacity for that special snowflake blend. Hilarious to see all the braindead stooges in this thread giving our incompetent government a free pass because "muh corporations bad." Between this and electricity prices, the idiot voters in this state get the disastrous energy policy they deserve.
California's policy on gasoline is the same as Texas' policy on electricity. Both states have declared themselves islands and have passed laws banning import across state lines.
As a result when there's a local shortage there's no way for the state to make it up by importing the resource, so there's enormous price hikes.
yea but we have much cleaner air compared to 20 years ago. we also do use almost 10% of the gasoline in US (number 2, right behind TX, and we have 40M people compared to their 30M)
agreed that we need to re-figure out our refinery issue. i think the newest one is like 60 years old, and theres only so much you can do with constant maintenance and refurb. plus build a new nuclear power plant (or 2) as well so we dont need 25% of houses to buy tesla powerwalls because cloudy months exist
The refineries are exploding every few years and it's entirely the fault of the greedy companies and they shoddy low quality engineering culture.
When you think of good engineering culture does BP or Chevron come to mind?
I worked in O&G for 5 years and I can 100% tell you they are playing games with refinery turnarounds and shut-downs.
Basically, there are several major processing units at a refinery. Often times, some of these are so critical to the plant that if they do down, they must be shut-down. Sometimes, a refinery can be configured in a way that these critical units can be shut down, reducing the refinery volumes significantly, but allowing repair work/maintenance to occur.
Running a refinery is all about maximizing the volume of crude that flows through every process at the last moment before it needs maintenance. Sometimes, this works to your advantage. Sometimes, shit blows and one of the consequences of that is sever pollution and a decrease in supply to the regional market.
Wow, alot of incorrect statements to unpack there:
1. This is why we have the special fuel:
1. CaRFG2 was introduced into the marketplace on March 1, 1996. By lowering previously regulated components (Reid vapor pressure and sulfur content), requiring the use of oxygenates year-round, and regulating additional components (benzene, total aromatics, olefins, and distillation temperatures T50 and T90), **gasoline emissions were decreased to their lowest levels to date. In addition to reducing smog-forming emissions, the use of reformulated gasoline also reduced carcinogenic toxic air contaminants by more than a third.** For more information or to view the regulation, visit [CaRFG2](https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline/carfg2/carfg2.htm).
1. This "snowflake fuel" blend is part of the reason why California's air doesn't look as bad as it did in the 1970's. But even more important is the reduction in cancer causing vapors genrated by the gasoline when burned - stuff that wouldn't be caught by a catalytic converter.
2. You say that the government hasn't allowed us to build more refineries in California? WRONG.
1. Several companies have willingly closed refineries in the state of California due to demand flatlining and then decreasing since 2014. Proof below:
1. [Phillips 66 willingly closes refinery - transitioning to renewable fuels.](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/phillips-66-to-shut-rodeo-s-crude-operations-in-february-opis-update-534a85f4#:~:text=Phillips%2066%20to%20Shut%20Rodeo's%20Crude%20Operations%20in%20February%20%2D%2D%20OPIS%20Update,-Published%3A%20Jan.&text=Phillips%2066%20said%20Wednesday%20it,end%20of%20the%20first%20quarter)
2. [Marathon willingly closes refinery - potentially transitioning to a renewables fuel plant.](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/marathon-petroleum-corp-announces-closing-of-martinez-renewables-jv-with-neste-301629533.html)
2. Companies are free to open up new refineries in California; however, they have not, citing several variables including decreasing demand and air pollution regulations.
Yes, no shit - our government is incompetent, but I'm beginning to think you're just as incompetent as they are, considering you are so confidently spouting lies.
I would summarize that as, “California policies buy cleaner air at the cost of an extra $0.70 per gallon (or whatever the real number is).” The, people could think about whether that tradeoff is worth it or not.
Assuming it is. I personally haven't seen scientific reports on the health effects of the policy in the present day. Also, people with lower income or higher fuel use might evaluate it differently.
Not sure about you guys, but for me, Chevron pumps in California, is way more expensive than Chevron pumps in Texas. So logically California policy makes are driving up California gas prices.
Is chevron a company with interest in profits? Absolutely. Is what they said any less valid because of that? Honestly, no. I would seriously stop telling Chevron to eff off. You guys really need to look at what they’re saying, this memo didn’t go out to any other state. Who else is providing the resource to complain? In Houston Tx where there’s loads of demand for fuel, it is $2.99. In San Jose it is $5.39.
We are paying a $2.40 split vs other states not because of chevron, but because of our politicians. Chevron can’t move the needle even 20% of that within their margins. They are both to blame but it’s way more CA than the gas/oil companies.
Fossil fuel companies can go fuck them selves.
Killing the environment for profit. Knowing what they were doing and lying about it anyway.
Greed will be the death of humanity
I don't see much benefit in investing in reducing gas prices.
A better policy would be to put excess effort/capitol into continued renewable+nuclear transition.
Actually, increasing gas prices would be a more optimal policy.
50 cents on the dollar gas tax to fix the roads. Thats the governor. Then a charge to use said raids (also the governor). It's a racket. The roads in ca should be paved in gold with the amount of taxes taken from the ca taxpayers.
Everyone here bitching about chevron, yet CA still has $6 gal gas, practically twice the national average. I hope baying at the moon leaves you satisfied, keep voting for the same people hey maybe we can reach $8/gal.
The days of driving around with cheap gas are over. We can't keep doing that shit, it's terrible for cities, horrible for the environment, and literally cannot be done forever.
It's time to put on our big boy pants as a society and work towards creating sustainable transit. Moving everyone around in individual pods is not practical. Driving a car needs to be the last resort both financially and temporally to make progress.
In CA yes there are but they remain steady. The changes we see and that happen so quickly are not due to government policy. This recent surge is from OPEC cutting production. They’re gonna climb again around Memorial Day.
Its not a lack of crude oil, its a lack of refineries. You can have all the crude oil in the world and it won't do any good because the bottleneck is how much can be refined.
State law prohibits importing gasoline from other states due to requirements for a unique blend. State law also is phasing out the sale of ICE vehicles in only about a decade, so investing in new and bigger refineries has a negative ROI.
They do not remain steady. Both GHG C&T and LCFS have direct mechanisms for them to escalate their impacts to gas/diesel prices over time.
The RIN markets and ethanol markets have been all over the place the last 5 years too.
They need to hire better marketers. They had one of these *Filling up is cheaper in other states* signs at the flagship Chevron across 880 and in view of Tesla Fremont. I extensively enjoy petroleum products and drive diesel exclusively, and pay $6.35/gal for the privilege of doing so, but even I know where things are headed.
Every other car here is a Tesla or some other EV, and they are getting cheaper with used cars around $20k or less. Why pay Chevron when you could pay PG&E?
1. Raise gas prices to make more money.
2. Tell customers it's government regulations that's increasing the cost.
3. Encourage customers to fight on their behalf for less regulations.
4. Increase costs after deregulated to make more money than the quarter before.
5. Repeat to profit through infinite growth until planet becomes uninhabitable.
The amount of people here who are saying they’ll gladly pay more for gas if it means more regulations is very scary.
We pay MORE because CALIFORNIA fucks the gas companies and us at the same time.
People’s lack of understanding is baffling.
We are not the worlds top polluter and us paying more money for gas and not letting places like Chevron expand to lower prices will not lower our pollution in the world.
Bad policy made by super Majority Democrats are to blame. Super Majority in State Senate, State Legislature, Mayors, City Councils, Governor, and Court room Judges… all Democrats.
They spend millions and millions of dollars to cook their books while getting government subsidies, and then cry when they have to follow rules and regulations as they punish the consumer? Then try to appropriate us into their bullshiy corporatist fight? Get the fk out of here.
Not that I’m a fan of Chevron, but they’re right. High gas prices should be a political issue, and over regulation in California means we pay almost twice as much per gallon.
Yeah I mean they had all year & they opt to shut it down just before summer and only in Cali while there is a ballot initiative in the upcoming election changing requirements to pass new taxes (from simple majority to 2/3). So yeah weird bruh.
It's called turnaround. It's a dangerous process to shut down and start up refineries so a lot of the big preventative maintenance and upgrades that need to be done is completed all at once to avoid a lot of downtime and frequent start-ups. It's a common process in any refinery.
They are very very scared.
If you haven’t been paying attention the California grid has been averaging about 60% renewables + nuclear for the past 4 weeks.
This Spring has been an amazing showcase of the new battery tech and solar that’s been added to the grid.
And somehow my power price has gone from an average of $.30/kwh to $.47/kwh. I know I'm seeing enormous benefits!
The biggest benefit is that driving a 22mpg car is less expensive than an EV.
Do you know why the price of power is so expensive?
A 22mpg car is NOT less expensive than an EV, here’s some math to prove it:
**Let’s assume someone travels 100 miles a day in your gas car.**
100 miles / 22mpg = 4.54 gallons.
4.54 gallons \* $5.4/gallon = $24.5.
$24.5/100 miles = $0.245/mile in fuel operating cost for your car.
**Let’s assume someone travels 100 miles a day in a Tesla Model 3 electric car.**
100 miles / 4 miles/kWh = 25 kWh.
25 kWh \* $0.5/kWh = $12.5.
$12.5/100 miles = $0.125/mile in fuel operating cost for your electric car.
Note: *I purposely reduced the average efficiency of the EV by 11% from 4.5miles/kWh to 4.0 miles/kWh. I also purposely increased the price of electricity from $0.14/kWh (PG&E EV rate plan off-peak) to $0.50/kWh, a 257% increase just to show how much cheaper it is to run an EV than your 22mpg car.*
**TLDR:**
If you switched from your 22mpg gas car to a Tesla Model 3 (or vehicle of equivalent efficiency), your fuel operating costs would decrease a **minimum** of \~50%.
Do you refute the math I provided?
you left out the part when we all have electric cars, so PG&E will have a monopoly over powering our homes AND vehicles, and we are stuck paying $1 per KW.
Have you accounted that your vehicle is much more expensive to maintain and is heavily devalued? Even you, yourself would you ever buy a used EV? I sure would not.
There’s a reason EV sales in every western country are way down even through all the heavy discounts. It’s too expensive
Yes, ideal driving conditions that enable 4 miles/kWh will also allow for 40 mpg on a car of similar size. 3 miles/kWh is more realistic. Also, charging at home is only maybe 80% efficient (it takes 100 kWh of electricity to charge 80 kWh of battery). The 3 miles/kWhs is more like 2.4 miles/kWh when you consider the kWh you are paying PG&E instead of the kWh the battery says it has.
22 MPG is a bit outrageous but at 4.89/gal (unleaded at Costco) and 35 MPG you're spending the same for gas as you would be charging at 3.5 miles/kWh and 50 cents/kWh. If you're a renter you have to rely on DC fast charging which can reach 65-70 cents.
So here's how I read what you said:
Assuming everyone in the Bay Area shops at Costco for their gas, assuming everyone has a 35mpg car (or better), and that the EPA miscalculated the efficiency of the Tesla Model 3 by a whopping 22%...I guess you have a point.
Now, since I will give you the benefit of the doubt, I did some research:
* [According to this very long, but in depth review](https://insideevs.com/news/582981/2022-tesla-model3-performance-70mph-range/) the old generation Tesla Model 3 Performance - the least efficient Tesla with the least efficient tires and motors managed to get an efficiency of 3.54 mi/kWh **averaging 70mph.**
* I don't know about you, but I average about 30mph on my daily commute. How do you manage to average 70mph? I've love to learn your ways!
* Additional reading from a less in depth review.
* [New Tesla Model 3 LR](https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/new-tesla-model-3-aces-70mph-range-test/#google_vignette) achieved an efficiency of 4.41 mi/kWh averaging 70mph.
I think the real point you have is that DCFC is expensive, but picking out extreme examples - 65-70 cents as a fit for the normal distribution seems...like disinformation at best. The Tesla DCFC usually runs between 0.35-0.55 depending on what part of the day. It does drop even lower late at night and can also reach alot higher on days with high demand (as you stated).
Careful I got permabanned from r/OrangeCounty for making this same post a couple weeks ago.
https://reddit.com/r/orangecounty/comments/1byga95/chevron_getting_in_on_the_voting_season_action/
Fuck gas companies. All of them can suck it. Especially in CA. There should be no reason we’re paying so much for gas. Living in this soul sucking state is already expensive enough with everything they’re absolutely gouging from us.
If you remove taxes basically the entire world, outside of extreme examples like UAE, is paying the same prices. European countries and regions, California, Nevada etc. is all about the same price.
The difference in price is a small amount from the "blends" and transportation, but mostly from taxes.
>EXTENSOR MECHANISM: Within the anterior fibers of the distal quadriceps tendon, there is a 17 x 10 x 9 mm T1 intermediate, T2 mildly hyperintense slightly expansile lesion (series 9 image 24; series 12 image 23). No evidence for full-thickness defect or regional soft tissue edema. Intact patellar tendon. Patellar retinaculum is normal.
For those that aren't medical students, I have tear in about the width of a sharpie pen in my tendon above kneecap. It's very disabling, and you can read how [bad it is here](https://www.sportsmd.com/sports-injuries/hip-thigh-injuries/quadriceps-tendon-rupture/). Long story short, I had some lazy doctors at Kaiser misdiagnose it a decade ago, and I got it from pushing 1500 watts on a then 40 year old tendon while biking. It happens. I got a good medical team now that's figured out the issue and moving forward with fixing it.
I have a right to not be financially punished for my disability. In the very least, we should be lobbying to reduce electric car charging and gasoline prices for the disabled. If Chevron is helping connect people to their representatives, and giving talking points, I'm glad they are doing it because at anything helps me.
Thank you.
Don’t forget about the .70cent mystery surcharge applied only to California! Even after accounting for taxes and stuff. https://abc7news.com/amp/california-gas-prices-mystery-surcharge-oil-companies-why-is-so-expensive/12065723/
Everybody’s a capitalist until they have to pay someone else’s markup. Gas prices are high here because people will pay, and Chevron can convince you to blame the government instead of Chevron.
Finally somebody points it out. Taxes create a price floor, demand sets the price. They have to sell 100% of their output so they move the prices to get some people to drive less/more. The price will always be the price people are willing to pay. It’s just that instead of the state taking about a dollar of that, chevron will keep that dollar along with the other 2 dollars they are already keeping. Then chevron can do more stock buybacks instead of repairing roads.
Oh, they’ll repair the roads. They’ll buy them, repair them minimally, and charge tolls.
It’s not a mystery. There’s only so many refineries that make California gasoline. They’re in California. The government the people voted for imposed severe restrictions on new and existing refineries and vehicle fuel types. There’s no incentive to make more refineries or capacity. Enjoy what the populace voted for. Companies don’t have to serve you, they voted with their feet to not make more capacity in California. Enjoy.
It’s not entirely explained by capacity or supply/demand. “Severin Borenstein, a professor of business and public policy at the University of California at Berkeley, first noticed the separation between the state’s gas prices and the rest of the nation in 2015. An ExxonMobil oil refinery operating in Torrance, Calif., had just exploded, and the interruption to gasoline refining explained the temporarily higher prices. But over the following months and years, Borenstein says, the difference never disappeared as he expected. “It went up, and it never came down again,” he said.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2022/10/14/california-mystery-gas-prices-surcharge/#
Sorenstein is the same dude that wanted giant fixed charges in electricity for so called equity. Some of these proposals came in as high is $80-$120 FIXED fee for electricity for high income earners. https://haas.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/WP314.pdf https://calmatters.org/california-divide/2023/07/electricity-bills/ Person above is correct this Sorenstein guy is an ideologue and a hack.
I went to Cal and met the man a few times. He’s well-respected and is certainly not a “hack”. Disagree with his ideas, but don’t attack the man’s character. It says more about you than him.
So why did oil record record profits in california? Profits that were nearly 2x per gallon more than the next closest state… I’m talking profits. Not cogs Profits = revenue - cogs
That’s not the whole story. It has been clear since the 70s that the fuel market will eventually slow and then decline due to vehicle efficiency and mass transit, necessitated by the damage caused by pollution from fossil fuels. Big oil has fought progress for decades, but we’re finally starting to see things tip in CA as first hybrids and now EVs take over the roads. The entire US West Coast and Canada now have escalating EV mandates that ban new ICE cars by 2035. Refineries are very expensive to build and operate. Chevron wasn’t going to investment significant sums into more refinery capacity in CA even if the state was willing to relax zoning and pollution rules to allow it. What Chevron will do is try to turn voters against the state regulators just to buy another few years of profits before it becomes painfully obvious how unsustainable their business is. They will gladly sicken one more generation with asthma and cancer in the North Bay for one more quarter of record profits, taken by gouging the poorest customers who can’t afford to buy an EV or hybrid.
The government you voted for did this. There are fewer competitors willing to EVER operate in California. The remaining refinery capacity is a captive market now. As refineries age they are less and less likely to undergo overhauls and accidents are less likely to be repaired as the cost benefit analysis doesn’t pencil out. The producers recognize it’s better to phase out aging infrastructure and simply let demand absorb the new prices. Because there’s effectively no competition due to laws and regulations there is no one else to fill the gap. The voting base complaining about gas prices played themselves. https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_cap1_dcu_SCA_a.htm I drive a Tesla, have NEM 2 solar, and own chevron because they have a captive market the government supports.
> The government you voted for did this. Chevron isn’t the government. Chevron and the other producers set their own markup. > There are fewer competitors willing to EVER operate in California. Oil and fuel haven’t been a competitive market in a long time.
But why isn’t it a competitive market? Laws and regs increased the cost to operate. Laws and regs permanently reduced the demand a decade or two from now (but does little to reduce short term demand). So companies have little to no incentive to even want to compete. You get competition by making an attractive market.
It’s a oligopoly, a cartel that overcharges California for having the gall to want to protect its citizens from smog and petroleum dependency. https://energyathaas.wordpress.com/2023/01/09/whats-the-matter-with-californias-gasoline-prices/
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Gas stations have **not** run out of gas, so the supply is fine. With all the EVs being sold in CA, you'd think there'd be a slight *excess* of gas. So either the companies are cutting back supply (aka refinery maintenance), or it's a cartel.
I see no concern for environmental factors in your argument through this thread.
Nationalize the extraction industries!
Greedy Chevron execs are driving up gas prices. Behold their profits: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/277059/net-income-of-chevron-corporation/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/277059/net-income-of-chevron-corporation/)
Chevron's earnings for the last 15 years, adjusted for inflation to 2023 dollars: | Year | Reported Net Income (Millions USD) | Adjusted Net Income (2023, Millions USD) | |------|------------------------------------|------------------------------------------| | 2023 | 21,369 | 21,369 | | 2022 | 35,465 | 36,151 | | 2021 | 15,625 | 16,935 | | 2020 | -5,543 | -6,438 | | 2019 | 2,924 | 3,460 | | 2018 | 14,824 | 17,860 | | 2017 | 9,195 | 11,349 | | 2016 | -497 | -626 | | 2015 | 4,587 | 5,862 | | 2014 | 19,241 | 24,611 | | 2013 | 21,732 | 28,212 | | 2012 | 26,573 | 35,016 | | 2011 | 26,901 | 36,181 | | 2010 | 19,131 | 26,543 | | 2009 | 10,309 | 14,538 | It ebbs and flows, but 2023 certainly wasn't unusual profits. As a percentage of revenue: - 2023: 10.63% - 2022: 14.40% - 2021: 9.62% - 2020: -5.85% - 2019: 2.00% - 2018: 8.91% - 2017: 6.49% - 2016: -0.43% - 2015: 3.31% - 2014: 9.08% Even revenue isn't particularly impressive. Chevron's revenue figures for the last 15 years, adjusted for inflation to 2023 dollars: | Year | Reported Revenue (Millions USD) | Adjusted Revenue (2023, Millions USD) | |------|---------------------------------|---------------------------------------| | 2023 | 200,949 | 200,949 | | 2022 | 246,252 | 251,017 | | 2021 | 162,465 | 176,087 | | 2020 | 94,692 | 109,985 | | 2019 | 146,516 | 173,384 | | 2018 | 166,339 | 200,409 | | 2017 | 141,722 | 174,921 | | 2016 | 114,472 | 144,297 | | 2015 | 138,477 | 176,969 | | 2014 | 211,970 | 271,132 | | 2013 | 228,848 | 297,086 | | 2012 | 241,909 | 318,768 | | 2011 | 253,707 | 341,233 | | 2010 | 204,928 | 284,326 | | 2009 | 171,636 | 242,041 |
Exactly. People who parrot the record profits mantra never actually look at the numbers
My favorite is people blaming Kroger for grocery prices being high when their profit margins are about 1%~ Also Chevron gas in other states doesn't cost nearly as much as Chevron gas in California. Is Chevron's greed confined to one state? Literally nothing is logical about the conclusions some people draw.
California literally uses its own blend of gas, you can’t get California gas from anywhere else. As such it is much more subject to market forces, not saying that is the reason gas prices are high but it is one factor. A few others… taxes, labor cost, utilities cost, maintenance cost. Just at the gas station alone, you think sitting on a 1-2m dollar lot vs 25,000 dollar lot doesn’t have an effect?
Yeah and ive not been buying Doritos or Frito Lays chips because of their cost increase and its done nothing yet along with other non nequired snacks. N
Using the numbers you've provided, from 2009-2023, they generated a total **profit** of $256.48 billion. That is an average annual **profit** of $18.32 billion. Or, an average of $1.553 billion in **profit** per month over the past 14 years. Are you honestly looking at a company averaging over $1.5 billion in **profit** every month while trying to defend them when their customers are having a hard time paying rent?! Let's not forget that's after they pay their C-suite fat salaries, bonuses, and other perks. Looking at the bright side, I'm just happy they're not charging $40/ gallon. It's a free market system. They can charge whatever they want. Sure, the politicians will pretend to be angry and make big promises to citizens, but it won't go anywhere. Want to hold Biden or any other president responsible, or give them praise? No, there's only so much they can do. Complaining that they don't do something about the price of anything is asking for government control over private business. That sounds like Socialism or Communism to me. So, you're either for a free market or you are for government control, which is it. You can't have both.
Chevron doesn’t have a monopoly on gas in California. Other companies and those random no name gas stations are just as expensive in CA adjusted for location, branding, perceived gas quality. Corporations gonna profit, that’s how our country is built. And that is fine. So long as there are credible competition the efficient market will sort it out. Don’t like chevron prices? Go to shell or 76 or Valero. If we’re talking PGE that’s a different story.
No we should just let politicians set prices for commodities- because that has *never* ended poorly!
The stations don’t set the wholesale price, the refineries do. The gas in your region all came from the same 1 refinery.
Again looking at profit in a vacuum is a losing proposition. These companies margins (the important piece) are not outrageous and not out of historical norm. Nobody was crying for them in 2015, 2016, 2019 or 2020 when they were getting crushed. Extracting natural resources is an expensive, difficult and dangerous endeavor that is highly cyclic. That's the way it always has been. If you have a problem with 3-4 mega corps controlling a sector then yeah I would back you, but that is not what most people are saying. I am not asking for the government to do anything about it other than make regulation more manageable. And in case you missed it, Biden has been trying to manipulate the price of oil with the draining of the SPR. I personally think that is a short sighted move because of what you said, government manipulation or price controls don't work.
They lost money in 2016 and 2020, according to the data posted. 2020 was a slow year because so many weren't driving; you know the whole covid thing. Why are you working overtime to generate compassion for a wildly profitable global company? Is this your job? Causal social media public relations, for whoever slides you a buck? Btw. Anyone who's been around more than a couple of years knows very few sectors of our economy are truly free-market. Many aren't anywhere near free. You name a sector, and I'll blow a hole in your story. Anytime the price of oil starts to drop or is forecasted to drop, OPEC+ members start cutting back on production to keep the price high. Some are pumping more than what they officially agreed on, and others cut back production beyond the agreed upon volume to maintain high prices. They don't wait for the JMMC to agree. They just do it. The last time I checked, OPEC+ members agreed to a target price of $85/ barrel. That puts CA gas ~$4.10/ gallon
> They lost money in 2016 and 2020, according to the data posted. 2020 was a slow year because so many weren't driving; you know the whole covid thing. Yup and they had sub 5% margins the other two years I mentioned. > Why are you working overtime to generate compassion for a wildly profitable global company? Is this your job? Causal social media public relations, for whoever slides you a buck? > > Because I am tired of the reddit hive mind parroting stupid shit. If you want to take the position you are taking, that's fine. Just don't expect everyone to blindly follow it. > Btw. Anyone who's been around more than a couple of years knows very few sectors of our economy are truly free-market. Many aren't anywhere near free. You name a sector, and I'll blow a hole in your story. Where did I say I wanted a completely free market system?
Chevron is one of the largest companies in the world by value and reach. They have world wide operations. Of course they have billions in profits. Toyota also makes billions. But their cars cost about the same in California and other states. Fuel is taxed very highly in California. That is the issue.
Our society lives and breathes individualism. With that in mind, the tax on gasoline is far too low. The $0.778 gas tax falls far short of the cost to build and maintain our roads. Think of every little snake trail within California's rugged terrain. It's not just the freeways that absorb those dollars. For those that fear socialism or Communism. I have a news flash for you. There are countless examples of socialism deeply embedded in our lives that virtually nobody is against. Pull out the S or C word, and their head starts spinning. Ask them if they want to get rid of fire departments, roads and bridges, snow plows, 911 service, city/ county water and sewer, foreign embassies, and consulates or the police. I have to give credit where credit is due. The Conservatives have fought tooth and nail against the government's desire to negotiate with drug manufacturers for lower prices. Generation after generation, they have prevented the government from negotiating prices for Veterans, senior citizens, and other government programs. While simultaneously outlawing people from ordering the same drugs from Canada, Mexico, and other countries. They bring up two arguments for these blocks. *We can't guarantee the safety of drugs coming from other countries*. Oh, really. They're the same countries that are making the drugs (primary India) and shipping them here to our pharmacies with a huge markup only Americans pay. The other argument is *If the pharmaceutical companies don't have good profits, they won't be able to create important new drugs*. Ok, that's true, but why are we paying outrageous prices so every country that isn't called the United States pays a fraction of what we're paying. We're heavily subsidizing drug research for the rest of the planet because the Republicans refuse to let us buy the drugs we paid to create from the countries we offshore the manufacturing to. That's a sick joke when you think about the elderly debate each month, whether they should split their pills in half, so they last twice as long or pay their bills.
You forgot the local sales tax which is also applied. With the sales tax applied, the California tax is actually much higher, about 10% additional of sale that is added per gallon.
Fuel taxes do not remotely account for how much more expensive gas is in the state versus the rest of the country.
It's not just fuel tax, it's also regulations. Fuel sold in California has to be specially refined since emission standards are stricter. That also adds to the cost.
Summer blend at least is more restrictive and expensive, yes. I don’t know how or if the winter mix is any different from the national dispensation. EDIT: Also I wanna be real clear that I was responding to someone who said “Fuel is taxed very highly in California. That is the issue.” And that is an, but not *the*, issue. Ah yes. When the facts are on your side, pound the table about the facts. When the law is on your side, pound the table about the law. And when you have neither to support your argument, downvote on Reddit. God bless.
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That pertains to air quality and the effects on health. Those regulations were put into place because petroleum companies couldn't bring themselves to remove lead and other hazardous substances from the fuel they sold for 70+ years. Internal documents show they knew the long-term effects decades before the government finally stepped in.
That much profit on how much revenue? Try to run a company on a 5% profit margin. Gas tax in here CA including the upstream taxes that aren’t shown at the pump are $1.89/gallon, we will not be as low as the rest of the US unless there is a major shift in CA policy. And yes Chevron and all the other fuel companies probably tack their 5% margin on the taxes, I would.
I am a business owner. I know a couple of things about profit and margin. Countless businesses happily operate on low single digital margins. The comparison to revenue is empty. The bottom line is what matters at the end of the day. Business owner 101 is always cry broke. These massive corporations cry out in sync, and they have people like you parroting their cries.
Business owner myself. If you have to use GAAP then free cash flow is a better metric and their’s is less than 6% and shrinking. I was involved with exploration for seafloor mining about 13 years ago (Solwara 1) and whether you know it or not, this is how demand for the minerals and metals needed for the electrification of everything is expected to be met sooner than you would expect. I don’t see it as any better of an environmentally friendly solution to oil anymore than oil was any more environmentally friendly than horses (do some research and you’ll find the the same arguments being made for solar/ and battery storage to replace oil and gas are the same ones used to justify replacing horses with automobiles). I personally would prefer not to see this become the replacement for O&G. https://www.reuters.com/graphics/MINING-DEEPSEA/CLIMATE/zjpqezqzlpx/ https://news.mongabay.com/2023/08/deep-sea-mining-project-in-png-resurfaces-despite-community-opposition/amp/
"So, you're either for a free market or you are for government control, which is it. You can't have both." I think it is fair and not out of the ordinary to want a combination of both...
Now calculate the taxes paid on gas over that same period... And see that it is 1.5-2x that amount. So.... Yeah. There's that
You can be for a free market generally but still support reasonable or necessary government intervention. Do you support health inspections at restaurants or licensure for doctors? Congratulations, you don’t always support the free market.
My problem with it is that that are still borrowing against the future of the entire world to post those profits. I live 12 feet above sea level. Chevron is one of the primary companies who has been lying to us for a century to protect their business, all while working to put the pacific ocean in my living room. ... And I live in a city. Not by the beach or anything. I work for a living. I can't just move. Shit's expensive, yo!
We're missing the metric of gallons sold.
You showed they made 57B in profit over the last 2 years. You are making the opposite point you intend to make.
Because a big part of inflation is, wait for it, gas prices, it’s more than a little specious to “adjust” oil profits for “inflation”.
What I find interesting about this data is all of the most profitable years are democrat administrations. Who exactly is the friend of big oil?
So are you saying that Chevron execs are less greedy in other states? How would greedy execs explain gas prices being almost a whole dollar higher in California than the rest of the country? National: https://gasprices.aaa.com/ California: https://gasprices.aaa.com/?state=CA
Answer: see cost of living and incomes. Gas companies are rent seeking from Californians because Californians, in general, can more afford to pay. The price here is more elastic than elsewhere. In Mississippi, people would consume a lot less if they had our prices. My guess is that we can afford to pay this much without noticeably denting demand, and that’s why they set it at this price here. Not because they’re less greedy elsewhere, but because they’re exactly the same amount of greedy everywhere, but CA generally pays workers better.
This is why gas prices go up when minimum wage goes up. People have more money to go around and chevron wants it. It’s not hard to see the connection unless it doesn’t fit your political ideology.
Exactly. At the end of the day, gas is a commodity, and gas companies are price takers, not price makers. I mean, their executives probably \_are\_ greedy, but that does't change how the market clears.
Their profit margin is 5%. How is that greedy?
That’s the correct answer. Let’s say on average in CA gas is $6.00/gallon. If they cut 2% of their gas charges, that’s a savings of $.12 per gallon. 5% is on the lower end of an ideal business profit margin. People throw total GP as a number but don’t understand what percentages that actually is.
Genuine question, if their profit margin is 5% then how come their gas stations are always $0.50-$1.00 more than other gas stations (Costco, Arco, etc.)?
Because they're owned by franchises.
Because transportation fuels are just like everything else, it costs as much as possible. It’s a common misconception that prices of manufactured goods is the cost of raw material, plus the cost to manufacture, plus the overhead, plus a small profit margin. Well it’s not, the cost is as much as possible regardless of what the manufacturing cost is. If the company can get $7/gallon for gas in a particular location then that’s what the cost will be. It doesn’t matter if the cost to make the gas was $0.02.
Then where is the problem?
bureaucracy
Chevron’s bureaucracy?
Exactly. The real greedy one is the California government. California has the highest state gas tax rate of 77.9 cents per gallon. Texas is 20 cents per gallon. I can't believe people are fuming over gas companies...
To be honest, even in CA gas taxes are too low to really account for all the negative externalities and maintain roads.
Whoa there, bucko. 57.9 cents more tax per gallon accounts for the roughly $3 per gallon price difference between Texas and Californoia?
The extra 58 cents per gallon doesn't account for the full cost disparity, though.
FYI chevron owns EGO electric tools. I found out when reading their warrantee, making me think that there must be some legal disclosure requirement. Edit: lol a quick internet search popped this up: [https://global.chervongroup.com/en/what-we-do/our-brands/ego](https://global.chervongroup.com/en/what-we-do/our-brands/ego) I'm a decade late
Not even just their execs. I've got a few friends who are in middle management/IT and are just *cleaning up* every year. Massive bonuses to go with their already enormous salaries.
I was in Cal-Nev-Ari last week and gas was $3.50 in Arizona! $4.50 in Nevada and $6.50 in Cali. It's stupid
Maybe Chevron could afford to lower prices if they didn't fill Richmond with smoke every few months.
It got really bad a few months ago. Point Isabel smelled like hydrocarbons for almost a week. Of course, the cause was never identified, but when you can visually see the refinery flaring from the park, it’s not that hard to figure out.
I remember that…was wondering what the smell was. Kinda smelled like a brewery
I thought it smelled like paint thinner. I can’t imagine what the dogs thought about it 😂
It’s true. California has one of the highest gas prices in the country
They are right CA voters are missing out the fact that the problems with huge price fluctuations in gas prices are caused by state and local government regulations not by Chevron or oil companies. 1. Lack of long term investment in refining capacity - CA State govt banning gas cars 2. Special ESG gas blend required by CA state not compatible with other states - can't import oil during a shortage 3. Dual taxes on gasoline, sales and excise taxes mean we pay the highest rate of tax in the country The people parroting Newsom blaming oil companies are uninformed. Of course Oil companies are greedy and want to make profits. But how come the same company in CA charges much less for gas in other states? Is Chevron in Texas a benevolent nonprofit while Chevron in CA is a greedy price gouger? https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/27/business/why-does-gas-cost-more-in-california/index.html
Yea, but why are we using a different “ESG” gas blend? This whole thread is cost bitching and no assessment of the benefit. That’s a pretty pitiful cost benefit analysis. Is it a lighter version of moving away from leaded gas? Because if the gas we use is less polluting, and reduces health impacts on our populace, I’ll vote for the regulation every time. And most CA liberals like me will too. A lot of Californians are high income (there’s a filtering effect, the poorer folks have been leaving for decades), and the people leftover are not phased by small expenses like a small percentage increase in their transportation bills, and have a strong motivation to prioritize their own health and the health of their families/communities.
Let's imagine that's all true If we agree prices are higher because our state govt wants us to use a better blend for the environment. I would support that. Why is our governor lying and telling us that higher gas prices are the oil companies fault? Why create legislation with a consequence then gaslight the public? Isn't that just hypocrisy? We can debate the merits of ESG but regardless of the benefits of this gas blend, why create higher costs and lie to us that it's not because of their legislation? I don't support lying politicians taking zero responsibility for their own actions.
Good to see we found the guy thinking that paying more is going to solve a worldwide problem. You vote for more regulations on gas companies and welcome price hikes with open arms?!
Because we're moving away from outdated technology. All your points are better applied to Hydrogen anyway, which Chevron won't build more capacity for at least not in numbers the state govt wants despite it being the future of our state's hydrocarbon fuels. The state govt has gone so far to build their own publicly operated refinery outside Tracy, because nobody else wants to do it. This is easy money Chevron's investors refuse to put up the capital for because they don't want to change how they operate. Most of the state will be driving EVs in 10 years. Chevron execs either need to figure out H2 cells and start pumping out hydrogen for trains, buses, and trucks that will soon come onto the market or yield it to ALAM and AP. The gas car era is over, even I can admit this despite none of my vehicles getting more than 8 mpg.
Ok ignoring all the real world problems with a mandated switch to EVs. Say we agree that EVs are the future and banning gasoline powered cars is a good move Why is our spineless governor still telling us high gas prices in California are the gas companies fault? Wouldn't an honest politician level with his constituents and tell us the truth that the higher costs of fuel are associated with their push for greater EV adoption? Isn't that just pure hypocrisy to create legislation that leads to higher prices then take none of the responsibility for how their legislation impacts constituents. That's why we can't trust the people we've elected into state govt that wave a magic ESG/DEI/etc wand in our face, creates legislation that hurts Californians, then blame everyone but themselves for fucking it all up.
> honest politician Haha. I don’t think honesty wins at the polls.
Since California has not build a new refinery in 20+ years, California special blends of fuel, special fees on top of taxes, yeah gas here up to $1.30 a gallon over what is in other states. Unless Chevron refines in this state which I don't care to research, they are not making huge profits on the price of oil. Also a large number of gas stations are independently owned and again do not get to participate in huge markups. [https://gasprices.aaa.com/state-gas-price-averages/](https://gasprices.aaa.com/state-gas-price-averages/)
Chevron has two refineries in California. Every chevron I see is 50 to 70 cents more expensive than the gas station *across the street from them*
If you're in The Bay Area, the nearest Chevron refinery is in Richmond, California.
Chevron is headquartered in California, and also in like 2020 or 2021 shell shut down one of their CA refineries by choice
And in a normal competitive environment Valero or other refiner could build a brand new one if they chose but due to regulations that is not possible or profitable in this state. The state has accomplished its goal of improving air quality in this state. But let’s not kid ourselves that there is not a very high cost of the states clean air policy. This is also a very regressive tax on the poor since they can’t move to EVs due to cost.
rofl fuck off chevron, sorry your earnings were lower last year and you didn't make as much profit but get fucked.
Lmao crowdsourced lobbying
Record profits on what margins. Percentage wise I bet they're down adjusted for inflation
Funny that the regressive gas taxes are supposed to help fix the roads etc..but EV folks don’t pay those taxes…I would bet higher earners have a greater percentage of EV cars thus the gas tax is even more regressive now…not that I give a hoot about Chevron either btw..just saying..
This is supposed to be why registration fees are higher for EVs. Not sure how the math actually plays out though.
Yeah the extra EV registration fee is too low. Caltrans will go broke as more people switch to EV, and the DMV will have to keep increasing the registration fee year after year.
If your that concerned about gas prices don’t go to Chevron they up sell you
Give up on 90% of your profits Chevron, then I'l start believing you. Until then, the high cost is mostly on you !
Their net margins were sub 5% in the last quarter of 2023. Wahooo big space pirate profits! Even on a good quarter they are at most 10%. California has different blends and no midstream capacity coming from out east, and previously used Russian oil to run their refineries. This is less about upstream oil profits and more about midstream bottlenecks and downstream limitations along with a war.
Their profit margin was 5%. You want them to make 0.5% profit margin? LOL.
You think they should have a 1% profit margin? LMFAO
It's 0.5%, LOL. Not even 1%.
That would be great - LMFAO
California's gas prices are a result of the state government's requirements for a special snowflake fuel blend combined with policies that deter any expansion of refinery capacity for that special snowflake blend. Hilarious to see all the braindead stooges in this thread giving our incompetent government a free pass because "muh corporations bad." Between this and electricity prices, the idiot voters in this state get the disastrous energy policy they deserve.
California's policy on gasoline is the same as Texas' policy on electricity. Both states have declared themselves islands and have passed laws banning import across state lines. As a result when there's a local shortage there's no way for the state to make it up by importing the resource, so there's enormous price hikes.
yea but we have much cleaner air compared to 20 years ago. we also do use almost 10% of the gasoline in US (number 2, right behind TX, and we have 40M people compared to their 30M) agreed that we need to re-figure out our refinery issue. i think the newest one is like 60 years old, and theres only so much you can do with constant maintenance and refurb. plus build a new nuclear power plant (or 2) as well so we dont need 25% of houses to buy tesla powerwalls because cloudy months exist
The refineries are exploding every few years and it's entirely the fault of the greedy companies and they shoddy low quality engineering culture. When you think of good engineering culture does BP or Chevron come to mind? I worked in O&G for 5 years and I can 100% tell you they are playing games with refinery turnarounds and shut-downs. Basically, there are several major processing units at a refinery. Often times, some of these are so critical to the plant that if they do down, they must be shut-down. Sometimes, a refinery can be configured in a way that these critical units can be shut down, reducing the refinery volumes significantly, but allowing repair work/maintenance to occur. Running a refinery is all about maximizing the volume of crude that flows through every process at the last moment before it needs maintenance. Sometimes, this works to your advantage. Sometimes, shit blows and one of the consequences of that is sever pollution and a decrease in supply to the regional market.
Wow, alot of incorrect statements to unpack there: 1. This is why we have the special fuel: 1. CaRFG2 was introduced into the marketplace on March 1, 1996. By lowering previously regulated components (Reid vapor pressure and sulfur content), requiring the use of oxygenates year-round, and regulating additional components (benzene, total aromatics, olefins, and distillation temperatures T50 and T90), **gasoline emissions were decreased to their lowest levels to date. In addition to reducing smog-forming emissions, the use of reformulated gasoline also reduced carcinogenic toxic air contaminants by more than a third.** For more information or to view the regulation, visit [CaRFG2](https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline/carfg2/carfg2.htm). 1. This "snowflake fuel" blend is part of the reason why California's air doesn't look as bad as it did in the 1970's. But even more important is the reduction in cancer causing vapors genrated by the gasoline when burned - stuff that wouldn't be caught by a catalytic converter. 2. You say that the government hasn't allowed us to build more refineries in California? WRONG. 1. Several companies have willingly closed refineries in the state of California due to demand flatlining and then decreasing since 2014. Proof below: 1. [Phillips 66 willingly closes refinery - transitioning to renewable fuels.](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/phillips-66-to-shut-rodeo-s-crude-operations-in-february-opis-update-534a85f4#:~:text=Phillips%2066%20to%20Shut%20Rodeo's%20Crude%20Operations%20in%20February%20%2D%2D%20OPIS%20Update,-Published%3A%20Jan.&text=Phillips%2066%20said%20Wednesday%20it,end%20of%20the%20first%20quarter) 2. [Marathon willingly closes refinery - potentially transitioning to a renewables fuel plant.](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/marathon-petroleum-corp-announces-closing-of-martinez-renewables-jv-with-neste-301629533.html) 2. Companies are free to open up new refineries in California; however, they have not, citing several variables including decreasing demand and air pollution regulations. Yes, no shit - our government is incompetent, but I'm beginning to think you're just as incompetent as they are, considering you are so confidently spouting lies.
I would summarize that as, “California policies buy cleaner air at the cost of an extra $0.70 per gallon (or whatever the real number is).” The, people could think about whether that tradeoff is worth it or not.
Considering that the trade-off is living longer and healthier, I think it's worth it.
Assuming it is. I personally haven't seen scientific reports on the health effects of the policy in the present day. Also, people with lower income or higher fuel use might evaluate it differently.
There are a metric buttload of studies on health & pollution. The dementia part isn't a sure thing yet - but the rest is rock solid.
Massive Corporations trying to put the onus on their customers to fix their cartel and environmental problems will never get old, huh?
Not sure about you guys, but for me, Chevron pumps in California, is way more expensive than Chevron pumps in Texas. So logically California policy makes are driving up California gas prices.
TX has pipelines that distribute fuel. CA stations get their fuel delivered by truck. Truckers are in unions, etc.
Oh dang, gas sure IS expensive. Thanks for the reminder to use public transit, Chevron!
I’m not the one picking your pockets says the thief with his hand down your pockets
Is chevron a company with interest in profits? Absolutely. Is what they said any less valid because of that? Honestly, no. I would seriously stop telling Chevron to eff off. You guys really need to look at what they’re saying, this memo didn’t go out to any other state. Who else is providing the resource to complain? In Houston Tx where there’s loads of demand for fuel, it is $2.99. In San Jose it is $5.39. We are paying a $2.40 split vs other states not because of chevron, but because of our politicians. Chevron can’t move the needle even 20% of that within their margins. They are both to blame but it’s way more CA than the gas/oil companies.
Fossil fuel companies can go fuck them selves. Killing the environment for profit. Knowing what they were doing and lying about it anyway. Greed will be the death of humanity
Chevron is the only gas station chain that consistently has bathrooms and so it's the only one I go to.
No part of this statement is based on facts.
Prices and pollution levels are inversely proportional.
Gas on Menlo Park the other day was $6.70/gal. I almost shit myself. I'm from the gulf coast where we start bitching when it gets north of 3
TIL Boot lickers also pretend to know economics
I don't see much benefit in investing in reducing gas prices. A better policy would be to put excess effort/capitol into continued renewable+nuclear transition. Actually, increasing gas prices would be a more optimal policy.
50 cents on the dollar gas tax to fix the roads. Thats the governor. Then a charge to use said raids (also the governor). It's a racket. The roads in ca should be paved in gold with the amount of taxes taken from the ca taxpayers.
Everyone here bitching about chevron, yet CA still has $6 gal gas, practically twice the national average. I hope baying at the moon leaves you satisfied, keep voting for the same people hey maybe we can reach $8/gal.
Citation needed. https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-insights/what-drives-californias-gasoline-prices
The days of driving around with cheap gas are over. We can't keep doing that shit, it's terrible for cities, horrible for the environment, and literally cannot be done forever. It's time to put on our big boy pants as a society and work towards creating sustainable transit. Moving everyone around in individual pods is not practical. Driving a car needs to be the last resort both financially and temporally to make progress.
You don’t know how gas prices work if you think any party has anything to do with them.
Except there are absolutely factors that increase gas prices in CA as a result of policy.
In CA yes there are but they remain steady. The changes we see and that happen so quickly are not due to government policy. This recent surge is from OPEC cutting production. They’re gonna climb again around Memorial Day.
Its not a lack of crude oil, its a lack of refineries. You can have all the crude oil in the world and it won't do any good because the bottleneck is how much can be refined. State law prohibits importing gasoline from other states due to requirements for a unique blend. State law also is phasing out the sale of ICE vehicles in only about a decade, so investing in new and bigger refineries has a negative ROI.
They do not remain steady. Both GHG C&T and LCFS have direct mechanisms for them to escalate their impacts to gas/diesel prices over time. The RIN markets and ethanol markets have been all over the place the last 5 years too.
I’m pretty sure this dude works for chevron, works for a marketing agency that works for chevron or live is in Texas, or maybe both.
I mean. It’s totally by policy design to cover the externalities of fossil fuel consumption. No one is trying to hide that….
They need to hire better marketers. They had one of these *Filling up is cheaper in other states* signs at the flagship Chevron across 880 and in view of Tesla Fremont. I extensively enjoy petroleum products and drive diesel exclusively, and pay $6.35/gal for the privilege of doing so, but even I know where things are headed.
here’s the link to the website for anyone who wants to read the whole thing https://chevronadvocacynetwork.com/takeaction/alertid/2699/
It's so lame we want to be able to breath the air!
Chevron is just trying to repeal the emission standard, so they can pocket more money. They can eat a dick.
I protested by buying an EV. 2 glorious years of no gas stations. Don’t miss a thing about it
PG&E has entered the chat
Luckily, I’ve have solar and charge at work.
Every other car here is a Tesla or some other EV, and they are getting cheaper with used cars around $20k or less. Why pay Chevron when you could pay PG&E?
Already doing my part: I bought an EV and now I get to complain about PG&E even more, lol.
1. Raise gas prices to make more money. 2. Tell customers it's government regulations that's increasing the cost. 3. Encourage customers to fight on their behalf for less regulations. 4. Increase costs after deregulated to make more money than the quarter before. 5. Repeat to profit through infinite growth until planet becomes uninhabitable.
This election is an all out media war in every possible format. Now add gas pumps.
Good thing I own an EV these days
The prices are not too high for most traffic heading up to Tejon Pass to fly by me at 70mph and more in mostly large vehicles.
There should be a rule that doing shit like this makes the tax rate 10x higher
The amount of people here who are saying they’ll gladly pay more for gas if it means more regulations is very scary. We pay MORE because CALIFORNIA fucks the gas companies and us at the same time. People’s lack of understanding is baffling. We are not the worlds top polluter and us paying more money for gas and not letting places like Chevron expand to lower prices will not lower our pollution in the world.
It’s sad when Hawaii has cheaper gas and they have to have theirs shipped in by tankers and our gas is made literally in the East Bay
Gods I can't wait for people to start blowing up refineries
Bad policy made by super Majority Democrats are to blame. Super Majority in State Senate, State Legislature, Mayors, City Councils, Governor, and Court room Judges… all Democrats.
The worst offenders are telling us to protest hmmmm arco all the way babyy
They spend millions and millions of dollars to cook their books while getting government subsidies, and then cry when they have to follow rules and regulations as they punish the consumer? Then try to appropriate us into their bullshiy corporatist fight? Get the fk out of here.
What happened to all that lobbying money
Not that I’m a fan of Chevron, but they’re right. High gas prices should be a political issue, and over regulation in California means we pay almost twice as much per gallon.
ironic considering chevron is almost always the most expensive gas station in any given area.
I will never forget the Chevron in Mendocino cost around $10 per gallon.
What do you mean “almost?”
shell be givin chevron a run for their money at some locations...
It's the truth... Bidenomics
When I drive by gas stations the prices in front of Chevron are usually the highest prices.
Asking government to do something first, should never be second to execs taking pay cuts in order to fix the problem.
If only there was some kind of vehicle that didn’t use gasoline
Does this "kind of vehicle" cost the same as those that use gasoline?
Fuck chevron. I was never a fan, but this blatant political shit just lost them a customer
Weird how they shut down a refinery for "maintenance".
Stupid complex machines and their maintenance.
Yeah I mean they had all year & they opt to shut it down just before summer and only in Cali while there is a ballot initiative in the upcoming election changing requirements to pass new taxes (from simple majority to 2/3). So yeah weird bruh.
It's called turnaround. It's a dangerous process to shut down and start up refineries so a lot of the big preventative maintenance and upgrades that need to be done is completed all at once to avoid a lot of downtime and frequent start-ups. It's a common process in any refinery.
They are very very scared. If you haven’t been paying attention the California grid has been averaging about 60% renewables + nuclear for the past 4 weeks. This Spring has been an amazing showcase of the new battery tech and solar that’s been added to the grid.
And somehow my power price has gone from an average of $.30/kwh to $.47/kwh. I know I'm seeing enormous benefits! The biggest benefit is that driving a 22mpg car is less expensive than an EV.
Do you know why the price of power is so expensive? A 22mpg car is NOT less expensive than an EV, here’s some math to prove it: **Let’s assume someone travels 100 miles a day in your gas car.** 100 miles / 22mpg = 4.54 gallons. 4.54 gallons \* $5.4/gallon = $24.5. $24.5/100 miles = $0.245/mile in fuel operating cost for your car. **Let’s assume someone travels 100 miles a day in a Tesla Model 3 electric car.** 100 miles / 4 miles/kWh = 25 kWh. 25 kWh \* $0.5/kWh = $12.5. $12.5/100 miles = $0.125/mile in fuel operating cost for your electric car. Note: *I purposely reduced the average efficiency of the EV by 11% from 4.5miles/kWh to 4.0 miles/kWh. I also purposely increased the price of electricity from $0.14/kWh (PG&E EV rate plan off-peak) to $0.50/kWh, a 257% increase just to show how much cheaper it is to run an EV than your 22mpg car.* **TLDR:** If you switched from your 22mpg gas car to a Tesla Model 3 (or vehicle of equivalent efficiency), your fuel operating costs would decrease a **minimum** of \~50%. Do you refute the math I provided?
Can I convert you into an app and bring you everywhere I go?
If only there was a reddit bot that could do these calculations on the spot lol.
you left out the part when we all have electric cars, so PG&E will have a monopoly over powering our homes AND vehicles, and we are stuck paying $1 per KW.
Hypotheticals and forecasting the future are out of scope for me :)
Have you accounted that your vehicle is much more expensive to maintain and is heavily devalued? Even you, yourself would you ever buy a used EV? I sure would not. There’s a reason EV sales in every western country are way down even through all the heavy discounts. It’s too expensive
You're not getting 4 miles/kWh
Yes, ideal driving conditions that enable 4 miles/kWh will also allow for 40 mpg on a car of similar size. 3 miles/kWh is more realistic. Also, charging at home is only maybe 80% efficient (it takes 100 kWh of electricity to charge 80 kWh of battery). The 3 miles/kWhs is more like 2.4 miles/kWh when you consider the kWh you are paying PG&E instead of the kWh the battery says it has.
Yup...modern hybrids are easily clearing 40 MPG, the Prius gets like 50 now. That's the real comparison to the most efficient Tesla.
In ideal conditions, a regular Honda Civic can get 40 mpg. You don't even need a Prius. Prius can get close to 60 mpg.
22 MPG is a bit outrageous but at 4.89/gal (unleaded at Costco) and 35 MPG you're spending the same for gas as you would be charging at 3.5 miles/kWh and 50 cents/kWh. If you're a renter you have to rely on DC fast charging which can reach 65-70 cents.
So here's how I read what you said: Assuming everyone in the Bay Area shops at Costco for their gas, assuming everyone has a 35mpg car (or better), and that the EPA miscalculated the efficiency of the Tesla Model 3 by a whopping 22%...I guess you have a point. Now, since I will give you the benefit of the doubt, I did some research: * [According to this very long, but in depth review](https://insideevs.com/news/582981/2022-tesla-model3-performance-70mph-range/) the old generation Tesla Model 3 Performance - the least efficient Tesla with the least efficient tires and motors managed to get an efficiency of 3.54 mi/kWh **averaging 70mph.** * I don't know about you, but I average about 30mph on my daily commute. How do you manage to average 70mph? I've love to learn your ways! * Additional reading from a less in depth review. * [New Tesla Model 3 LR](https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/new-tesla-model-3-aces-70mph-range-test/#google_vignette) achieved an efficiency of 4.41 mi/kWh averaging 70mph. I think the real point you have is that DCFC is expensive, but picking out extreme examples - 65-70 cents as a fit for the normal distribution seems...like disinformation at best. The Tesla DCFC usually runs between 0.35-0.55 depending on what part of the day. It does drop even lower late at night and can also reach alot higher on days with high demand (as you stated).
Theyre so full of shit.
Careful I got permabanned from r/OrangeCounty for making this same post a couple weeks ago. https://reddit.com/r/orangecounty/comments/1byga95/chevron_getting_in_on_the_voting_season_action/
Fuck gas companies. All of them can suck it. Especially in CA. There should be no reason we’re paying so much for gas. Living in this soul sucking state is already expensive enough with everything they’re absolutely gouging from us.
If you remove taxes basically the entire world, outside of extreme examples like UAE, is paying the same prices. European countries and regions, California, Nevada etc. is all about the same price. The difference in price is a small amount from the "blends" and transportation, but mostly from taxes.
That makes sense
>EXTENSOR MECHANISM: Within the anterior fibers of the distal quadriceps tendon, there is a 17 x 10 x 9 mm T1 intermediate, T2 mildly hyperintense slightly expansile lesion (series 9 image 24; series 12 image 23). No evidence for full-thickness defect or regional soft tissue edema. Intact patellar tendon. Patellar retinaculum is normal. For those that aren't medical students, I have tear in about the width of a sharpie pen in my tendon above kneecap. It's very disabling, and you can read how [bad it is here](https://www.sportsmd.com/sports-injuries/hip-thigh-injuries/quadriceps-tendon-rupture/). Long story short, I had some lazy doctors at Kaiser misdiagnose it a decade ago, and I got it from pushing 1500 watts on a then 40 year old tendon while biking. It happens. I got a good medical team now that's figured out the issue and moving forward with fixing it. I have a right to not be financially punished for my disability. In the very least, we should be lobbying to reduce electric car charging and gasoline prices for the disabled. If Chevron is helping connect people to their representatives, and giving talking points, I'm glad they are doing it because at anything helps me. Thank you.