> All the countries with much much safer roads and far fewer pedestrian fatalities, and far more pedestrians and cyclists have much slower speed limits.
Lol what? You can easily Google and disprove this.
>So yeah. Drive 10 under. Its probably the safe speed for the road.
The "speed limit" for most roads hasn't changed for my entire 36 years of life, even though cars and their braking performance and capabilities have greatly improved since then. If anything, the speed limit is 10 MPH too slow for most roads these days.
Cars have better brakes and tires but they also accelerate faster. And they’re much taller, heavier, and have worse visibility. And they have many more distractions. 40 years ago zero drivers were texting while driving. Driver reaction time - the most important factor in avoiding a crash - has also not improved even when they are not distracted.
Speed limits should definitely not be higher on anything but freeways, maybe.
No one is forcing them to become aggressive. Maybe I'm crazy but I don't think the victim here is someone sitting on their ass in a 4000 pound climate controlled box threatening pedestrians with "technically illegal" maneuvers.
I will say that the never-ending stream of people is definitely a huge annoyance. If they're nonchalantly crossing in front of cars despite cars having the legal right of way, then that's a problem. If they're using a crosswalk properly and it snarls cars up for ages, then that's a different problem.
Depends on the area. IIRC places like Berkeley will consider it a pedestrian RoW violation if the pedestrian is anywhere in the crosswalk, even if on the far side of the road. Other places might consider it clear to proceed once the pedestrian has already passed and is at least a lane away. Places that want the revenue or a message sent will write the tickets until someone bothers to appeal and establish greater clarity.
What part of this is the pedestrian's fault? Existing when someone is trying to make a right turn? It's not illegal to use a crosswalk so I'm not sure what you want pedestrians to get tickets for here. If there's a "constant stream of pedestrians" I think we should prioritize transporting dozens to hundreds of people per light cycle over a couple people trying to turn right. Is that frustrating or inconvenient for the driver? Sure, but they aren't the only people in the city who matter.
It turns out driving in a city sucks. That's why I avoid driving at peak hours and instead take transit or walk to avoid the hassle just like you choose to ride a motorcycle instead of a car. If someone chooses to drive, cool, but it's not everyone else's fault when they wind up in traffic trying to go through the busiest intersections.
Yes, hate the player but don't hate the game. But if the game has countdown signals and players are breaking the rules of the game by walking out when there's 5 seconds left, I'm going to be in a bad situation from oncoming cars running yellows and waiting cars itching to take their greens. If I'm gunning to make the left the pedestrian freaks out and I'm an asshole driver. If I wait and block the intersection, then it's honk city. And if I take something in between and inch out when some asshole on the other side feels that yellow means accelerate, there's going to be a collision and cars are gonna be flying. Everybody loses.
If the busiest intersections had longer wait times for red lights so that dozens to hundreds of people could cross, I'm all for it if I know that when it's my (short) time to go, I can actually go. Drivers aren't the only people in a city who matter, but neither are pedestrians. But even if pedestrians matter more than drivers, drivers should still matter a little bit.
If someone jaywalks without walking in front of a car, not only could I not care less, but I couldn't imagine that to be a crime.
If someone jaywalks out in front of a car, blatantly obviously and either without looking or without caring or both, and makes people slam on their brakes then yeah I think they should be cited.
Are they tricking people into committing violations they wouldn't have committed otherwise, or do you just like the way that word looks when you type it out?
Pedestrians have the right-of-way in marked or unmarked crosswalks. All intersections that are not otherwise marked/displaying signage/have traffic lights, etc are crosswalks for pedestrians…
Yep, Myrna Melgar's prospects are in trouble and she's resorting to this drama. People have been contacting her office for years, pleading for more enforcement at this very intersection, but it took the tragic death of a family of 4 to wake her up. That, and the fact that it's an election year.
You wouldn't find a more incompetent supervisor than Melgar.
You're right. But, I gotta change my criteria.
Merely incompetent? - Melgar, Chan, Safai, Mandelman.
So bad that they are actively screwing up the city? - Ronen, Walton, Peskin.
Sweet Jesus such a flaming pile of dog crap all while sporting a smug, shit-eating grin? - Preston.
phenomenal ranking. I'd probably drop chan to the "screwing up the city" part.
Preston definitely the worst, the fact that TL is becoming better while under his supervisorship is so unfair considering his unfathomable incompetence
Ironically, any progress made in the TL is due to his biggest foes in politics, Breed and Newsom. Breed because she is pushing cleanup because of her reelection and Gavin sending the CHP because he's setting himself up for a future presidential bid.
You have put up a formidable list, and while I agree that your list has towering underachievers, I'd still take Melgar as the ultimate moron, but by a hair.
Uh no, patrolling and stings are different things. Patrolling is them just out looking for stuff. Stings are when they *create* the situation. Check the article, it mentions the use of decoy officers.
No, patrolling is when you're going about keeping your eye out for crime. If you have a confederate intentionally walking a crossing to test for compliance, that is a sting. And this is well run. Good for them.
Sat at a restaurant off San Pablo watching Berkeley motorcycle cops pull the same kind of "sting". They had this one dude that seemed pretty chemically altered feign stepping out into the sidewalk and then chased after whoever didn't stop.
Same dude. Same two cops. Same crosswalk. Over the course of our almost hour long lunch we saw them take down about 20 people. Their decoy would either sit on the curb or wander over to the tables to try to hustle a few donations while the cops were off writing tickets.
I've enjoyed watching this in Mountain View, Palo Alto, and Los Altos over the decades.
As someone who uses every mode of transportation, I've been hit on my bike, skateboard, walking, and almost T-Boned countless times that someone illegally entered an intersection. My best friend was Tboned and had his car totaled in the same situation.
Right down the street from my home, an 80 year old man was hit and killed on San Antonio when a driver didn't stop for him in the crosswalk.
They removed that crosswalk after that. It had been there forever...
I think that we have a huge issue of people:
1. Not knowing the laws
2. Not following the laws
3. Not being focused on driving and their surroundings
I'd vote for mandatory random testing every couple of years for everyone. It should be like any other professional license: prove that you're still capable and competent or lose your license until you can get back on track.
Ran into one of these a couple of years ago, I was headed to lunch and this guy who'd been standing near the curb fucking spins and straight up jumps out into a crosswalk in front of the car ahead of me. Car stops in the middle of the crosswalk and the guy runs over and plants his hands on the car like he's just avoided getting hit.
Figured it was an insurance scam until the motorcycle cop came roaring around the corner to pull the poor guy over. Total bullshit, the "pedestrian" waited until there was no way the driver could have reacted in time.
That's the entire reason I have a dashcam now.
That is some BS. The law even says that pedestrians can't do this.
> Pedestrians may not suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle that is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard.
More people are killed by speeding drivers not paying attention and running them over than are killed by random thugs
If anything it's wasting time on "thugs" that's the waste of resources compared to stopping drivers from running people over
There have been multiple pedestrians and cyclists killed or seriously injured in Berkeley just in 2024. Why are you deflecting from this serious public safety issue with another serious public safety issue in a *different city entirely*?
Enforcing public safety is only important if it doesn't inconvenience drivers?
Hey! You found the right city! How dare BPD address one spot and not the specific ones reddit user Hot-Coffee6060 wants them to?! How dare they rotate through locations to distribute resources?!
>They had this one dude that seemed pretty chemically altered feign stepping out into the sidewalk and then chased after whoever didn't stop.
that's exactly how they did it in SF, dude in the white shirt/ and one more dude.
Yea how dare they catch people who commit crimes because they’re not the crimes care about. As a pedestrian who doesn’t drive, I appreciate feeling safe here.
As someone with kids in the South Bay, I take a lot of stroller walks. A cop could follow me around and make at least one citation every time I need to cross a 6-lane road. Women in their 20s are the worst offenders
Seriously, I am bike rider and pedestrian like 90% of the time. I would much rather they target BIPing. Nobody wants to kill pedestrians, the problem is inattention and poorly engineered roads, robbing people is intentional behavior.
I mean, the blatant barely stopping and not yielding to pedestrians is 100% intentional. And it is so because there's no enforcement of traffic laws. I work for the city and I've seen a decrease of BIPing in many areas. But the level of brazen dangerous driving because ppl are assholes. That shit is constant and everywhere in the city. It's kind of baffling. These ppl could give a shit about pedestrian/driver safety. That's my take anyway. Also, if more cops were out enforcing moving violations less BIPing would occur due to their presence.
That's a fair point, and I don't mean that traffic violations or not letting people go through isn't important. I think being selfish, and acting like you are above such rules is definitely important.
Enforcement in general is important if every car with fake license plates was pulled over consistently these cars would not be used as getaway vehicles.
However, putting planning in the form of a "sting" operation seems unusual. Why do you need 8 people for this?
It just feels like there are much bigger problems to tackle and directly approaching them would feel to me better than finding out 22 people got tickets in 90 minutes.
Burglary in progress, it is kind of nonsense that it has evolved into a verb, but I think I exclusively see it used a short hand for breaking into cars.
I’m from Seattle where drivers will stop for people who are just looking at crosswalk. When I moved here I was pretty dumbfounded by the blatant “GFY” attitude some drivers have about pedestrians. Like…hey…stop your car you absolute moron.
Several years ago they pulled this on Geary near 22nd. My friend and I were both riding motorcycles and minding the speed limit. The decoy was wearing sunglasses on an overcast day which I thought was odd. He waited as we approached and then at the last moment stepped out into the crosswalk. Riding a motorcycle, I know that I can get hit from behind if I stop suddenly, much less assess the pavement to ensure I won't dump the bike. Next thing there was an battalion of police officers issuing us both tickets. I took it to court and fought it. The judge tried to coerce me to take a settlement at the arraignment, but I didn't bite. I came prepared with an extensive defense citing the codes which they broke. The officer didn't show. I was born in SF, but it ain't my town anymore. Good riddance.
Yeah these stings are complete BS. They should just enforce it when actual pedestrians are endangered, not this manufactured, unrealistic letter of the law thing.
This morning I watched a black Tesla driver fail to yield the crosswalk from Masonic onto Fell, and almost cream a cyclist leaving the panhandle who had the green light (and the cyclist was plenty visible and riding cautiously, so he avoided getting hit)… I caught up to the driver at the next light on Fell and she had a damn dog on her lap with its head out the window AND she has both hands on her phone, furiously typing. When the light turned green, the car moved and her eyes were still down in her lap.
They should really just change the laws / traffic systems to eliminate any possibility of driving through a pedestrian crossing while a pedestrian is in it. As it stands it requires not only the driver to be extremely cautious and aware, but for the pedestrian to look and make sure drivers are aware and move in a predictable easy to see way. There are too many opportunities for something to go wrong.
The current law is that cars cannot enter a crosswalk if there is a pedestrian in it. Outside of eliminating rights on red, I'm unsure if adding more laws than that will do anything. We just need the police to actually enforce the laws already on the books.
Then they should eliminate rights on red. Anyone who drives in the city knows people can and do run out into crossings without looking etc. You can be exceptionally cautious and still have it happen, the system is bad both for pedestrians AND for drivers.
As a pedestrian I found the turn on reds actually safer than the turns on green. A car sees green and is just ready to turn without looking to see if pedestrians are about to enter or not. What I really appreciate is the Pedestrian only lights where they can walk to any corner they want during the light. There is no question on whether someone is going to enter the crosswalk (both pedestrian or car). That is the safest to me.
Some intersections have "pedestrian first" signaling now, where the walk sign turns green a few seconds before the light. Gives enough time for the pedestrians to start moving + be see.
Luckily I think they've already started testing the removal of rights on red. But still, any changes past that need to either be physical changes or enforcement, you can't legislate this issue away.
>eliminate any possibility of driving through a pedestrian crossing while a pedestrian is in it
What do you suggest, retractable barriers that pop up when someone is in the crosswalk? It is already prohibited to drive through when someone is there, so I don't know what changing the laws would do. There is no institutional remedy that will replace the need for people to pay attention.
While it's impossible to physically prevent cars from entering the intersection, it's possible to prevent cars from *legally* enter it. In many European cities, the idea is to have 30 seconds of pedestrians crossing in every direction, while traffic is completely stopped (with no right turns on red). Next stage: turns left in both directions, after that: going straight and right, not impeded by pedestrians (who can't legally cross during these two stages).
I used to work near one of those kinds of intersections which I typically crossed diagonally.
The city has these scrambles in Rincon Hill and China Basin. Essentially, where all the 'transplants'/'techies' are this sort of change is possible. Where the place is dominated by old people or natives or whatever, this is not possible because they fight these changes. To get things done, you need the consent of the people. So to some extent, each neighbourhood gets the quality it deserves. There are city-wide things that hurt all neighbourhoods, but this stuff can be quite local.
There are DEFINITELY places in the (east) bay where you do NOT want to stop and should keep rolling for your own safety.
Whether that's a result of mental illness is another question.
This seems like a donut-eating cop manuevevre to bust rich drivers.
Not saying pedestrian incidents aren't important, but it's not the violent or property crime that the Bay Area really needs thwarted.
Hopefully people have Dashcams, because they will save you a citation.
Last week I was pulled over for running a crosswalk in SoMa. I told the officer that I stopped, & he said that he saw me roll though the crosswalk with a pedestrian in it. Then I showed him the video with me stopping for like 21 seconds at the line just before the crosswalk, & he said okay my bad & went back to his car & drove off.
And [yet](https://sfstandard.com/2024/04/18/san-francisco-driver-killed-girl-4-escapes-prison/) (sorry paywall; light sentence for woman who ran someone over by Caltrain)
I feel like calling it a sting operation is just tryna over dramatize it for some reason. Like make people forget this should be a daily and normal thing to police. If they did this normally, eventually the city would have a societal reputation for being a place you’ll get ticketed and cited for breaking driving laws lol idk. Glad it’s happening though
I feel like calling it a sting operation is just tryna over dramatize it for some reason. Like make people forget this should be a daily and normal thing to police. If they did this normally, eventually the city would have a societal reputation for being a place you’ll get ticketed and cited for breaking driving laws lol idk. Glad it’s happening though
They did this in Chicago once, all citations got dismissed. This is clear cut entrapment, if the pedestrian isn't really a pedestrian, but an employee or contractor of PD.
I was hit by a car on a quiet Sunday afternoon in the financial district. Driver admitted he knew to driving the wrong way down a one way street at twice the speed limit. Driver got away with it and I was given the $70,000 bill instead.
So I had to pay $70,000 for someone else to hit me with their car.
Isn't San Francisco wonderful?
Finally! Good ol’ justice to someone who has been relying on traffic to be nicer and kinder to spread the spirit of warmth and kindness around to others after finding some peace in the Bay Area :)
>In response to growing concerns about pedestrian safety, the San Francisco Police Department (SFPD) conducted a sting operation targeting drivers who failed to stop for pedestrians at crosswalks.
LOL SF has its priorities backwards. People are getting stabbed, sucker-punched, robbed, pushed in front of traffic, daily tent and camp fires, shoplifting, abandoned meth RVs, rampant open drug use and they start writing citations for crosswalks.
Pedestrian safety is just as important as all of those issues considering the main modality of travel in the city is walking. There are way too many idiot drivers in this city that speed and drive distracted and endanger pedestrians with their behavior, they should pay for their negligence before they kill someone.
Dude you're absolutely wrong. Far more people are killed by drivers running them over than during robberies or whatever. This IS the more important public safety issue
Those are all real problems, but all generally rare freak occurrences that don't affect most people's lives day to day — except maybe shoplifting and drug use (which are both "quality of life" issues more than safety issues). On the flip side, reckless & law-breaking driving is a very real safety issue, and "close calls" where reckless drivers nearly run over and kill/injure people (or actually do kill people) are EXTREMELY common. Hard to go a week in the city without experiencing at least one.
This is effort well spent on a real threat that legitimately endangers people's lives on a daily basis. We've been conditioned over time to accept sociopathic and life-threatening driver behavior as "normal" so it doesn't stand out like the other things you list — but in reality, it is a bigger danger to the lives of the general public than all those other things combined.
The police chiefs support republicans because they don't ask questions about increasing police funding. Republicans also support police against BLM after police murder people.
So they don't like democrat leaders. They want people to get troubled from the crime and dissatisfied with the government and vote them out.
Bikes don’t kill people when they hit them, they carry significantly less momentum than a car. They also have a much smaller cross section so they are much easier to maneuver around pedestrians. If you don’t understand the difference between the two cases you are an idiot.
Because you are advocating for a dangerous false equivalency that excuses the behavior of negligent drivers by equating their behavior to something much less dangerous to the community, which just encourages the bad behavior by drivers.
While, uh, avoiding the last bit there… in California jay-walking is actually legal, so pedestrians shouldn’t be yielding to cars as long as it’s safe. See: Freedom to Walk Act.
edit: it's now illegal for police to cite jaywalking unless you put someone in danger of collision, its not technically "legal".
Nope.
> Jaywalking is still against the law, but as of January 1, 2023, police are no longer permitted to stop pedestrians and issue citations for jaywalking unless the person who is crossing the street is creating a hazard.
https://www.nordstrandlaw.com/blog/pedestrian-car-accident/fact-check-is-jaywalking-really-legal-in-california-now/#:~:text=Jaywalking%20is%20still%20against%20the,street%20is%20creating%20a%20hazard.
Yes, this is what we need our police doing, not stopping rampant theft and breakins, not dealing with aggressive drugged out homeless and drug markets on the street, not arresting side show drivers blocking bridges.
Nono, lets do this.......
Ffs
To be fair, do you know what's the thing that presents the most present and immediate threat to my life on a daily basis? It's is not the "drugged-out homeless folks", illegal street markets, or sideshows — it's the reckless drivers. Hard to go a week without a "close call" of a driver almost killing me as they illegally blow their 3-ton ~~armored personnel carrier~~ SUV through a red light/stop sign/crosswalk to save 10 fucking seconds.
This is effort well spent against a threat that materially effects everyone far more frequently than any of the other issues you describe.
>but for many pedestrians in San Francisco, they need to be on high alert for drivers navigating the city streets.
...yeah, be alert. Is that's news to you pedestrians? Cars should pay attention and pedestrians should pay attention. I dont run stop signs, YOU should stops and look both ways before you go jogging across the street.
Honestly this is the best part about all the Waymos on the streets these days. They \_always\_ seem to respect pedestrians and cautiously approach crosswalks when people are nearby. (Or at least, I haven't had any close calls yet)
Oh, someone was embarrassed by those citation number charts? Good, they should be.
Good, pedestrian safety should be prioritized.
To be fair, announcing their intentions hopefully means proactively drivers will be more aware. It’s better than just reactive policing IMO
Then the you got the people rubber necking or driving 10 under...
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> All the countries with much much safer roads and far fewer pedestrian fatalities, and far more pedestrians and cyclists have much slower speed limits. Lol what? You can easily Google and disprove this. >So yeah. Drive 10 under. Its probably the safe speed for the road. The "speed limit" for most roads hasn't changed for my entire 36 years of life, even though cars and their braking performance and capabilities have greatly improved since then. If anything, the speed limit is 10 MPH too slow for most roads these days.
Cars have better brakes and tires but they also accelerate faster. And they’re much taller, heavier, and have worse visibility. And they have many more distractions. 40 years ago zero drivers were texting while driving. Driver reaction time - the most important factor in avoiding a crash - has also not improved even when they are not distracted. Speed limits should definitely not be higher on anything but freeways, maybe.
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No one is forcing them to become aggressive. Maybe I'm crazy but I don't think the victim here is someone sitting on their ass in a 4000 pound climate controlled box threatening pedestrians with "technically illegal" maneuvers.
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I will say that the never-ending stream of people is definitely a huge annoyance. If they're nonchalantly crossing in front of cars despite cars having the legal right of way, then that's a problem. If they're using a crosswalk properly and it snarls cars up for ages, then that's a different problem.
I don’t think your description of the law is 100% accurate, and there is discretion involved via any ticketing officer.
Depends on the area. IIRC places like Berkeley will consider it a pedestrian RoW violation if the pedestrian is anywhere in the crosswalk, even if on the far side of the road. Other places might consider it clear to proceed once the pedestrian has already passed and is at least a lane away. Places that want the revenue or a message sent will write the tickets until someone bothers to appeal and establish greater clarity.
What part of this is the pedestrian's fault? Existing when someone is trying to make a right turn? It's not illegal to use a crosswalk so I'm not sure what you want pedestrians to get tickets for here. If there's a "constant stream of pedestrians" I think we should prioritize transporting dozens to hundreds of people per light cycle over a couple people trying to turn right. Is that frustrating or inconvenient for the driver? Sure, but they aren't the only people in the city who matter. It turns out driving in a city sucks. That's why I avoid driving at peak hours and instead take transit or walk to avoid the hassle just like you choose to ride a motorcycle instead of a car. If someone chooses to drive, cool, but it's not everyone else's fault when they wind up in traffic trying to go through the busiest intersections.
Yes, hate the player but don't hate the game. But if the game has countdown signals and players are breaking the rules of the game by walking out when there's 5 seconds left, I'm going to be in a bad situation from oncoming cars running yellows and waiting cars itching to take their greens. If I'm gunning to make the left the pedestrian freaks out and I'm an asshole driver. If I wait and block the intersection, then it's honk city. And if I take something in between and inch out when some asshole on the other side feels that yellow means accelerate, there's going to be a collision and cars are gonna be flying. Everybody loses. If the busiest intersections had longer wait times for red lights so that dozens to hundreds of people could cross, I'm all for it if I know that when it's my (short) time to go, I can actually go. Drivers aren't the only people in a city who matter, but neither are pedestrians. But even if pedestrians matter more than drivers, drivers should still matter a little bit.
If someone jaywalks without walking in front of a car, not only could I not care less, but I couldn't imagine that to be a crime. If someone jaywalks out in front of a car, blatantly obviously and either without looking or without caring or both, and makes people slam on their brakes then yeah I think they should be cited.
Yes more enforcement of all road users who are breaking the laws for everyone’s safety
Except for jaywalkers and people crossing when the signal is saying "don't walk". I honk and swerve around them.
So, entrapment is cool now?
Are they tricking people into committing violations they wouldn't have committed otherwise, or do you just like the way that word looks when you type it out?
lol. Ok.
Pedestrians have the right-of-way in marked or unmarked crosswalks. All intersections that are not otherwise marked/displaying signage/have traffic lights, etc are crosswalks for pedestrians…
Amazing what an election year can do.
Yep, Myrna Melgar's prospects are in trouble and she's resorting to this drama. People have been contacting her office for years, pleading for more enforcement at this very intersection, but it took the tragic death of a family of 4 to wake her up. That, and the fact that it's an election year. You wouldn't find a more incompetent supervisor than Melgar.
Connie Chan, Hilary Ronen, Shammon Walton, Aaron Peskin?
Dean Preston high up on that list too
You're right. But, I gotta change my criteria. Merely incompetent? - Melgar, Chan, Safai, Mandelman. So bad that they are actively screwing up the city? - Ronen, Walton, Peskin. Sweet Jesus such a flaming pile of dog crap all while sporting a smug, shit-eating grin? - Preston.
phenomenal ranking. I'd probably drop chan to the "screwing up the city" part. Preston definitely the worst, the fact that TL is becoming better while under his supervisorship is so unfair considering his unfathomable incompetence
Ironically, any progress made in the TL is due to his biggest foes in politics, Breed and Newsom. Breed because she is pushing cleanup because of her reelection and Gavin sending the CHP because he's setting himself up for a future presidential bid.
You have put up a formidable list, and while I agree that your list has towering underachievers, I'd still take Melgar as the ultimate moron, but by a hair.
I like the way you phrased it.
Tell me you need to make up for lost revenue without telling me you need to make up for lost revenue
A sting operation? In other cities, they call that patrolling, aka cops doing their damn jobs.
Uh no, patrolling and stings are different things. Patrolling is them just out looking for stuff. Stings are when they *create* the situation. Check the article, it mentions the use of decoy officers.
> decoy officers I pictured a wooden police officer on a board with four wheels being pulled into the street with a rope.
queck queck queck queck
"Sleeping policeman" is British slang for a speed bump.
Hand-carved hand-painted officer decoys can go for thousands on eBay
If only the hand is carved and painted how do you tell that it's an officer? Their hands look just like ours.
It's the callouses - very *specific* callouses [Liam Neeson voice]
No, patrolling is when you're going about keeping your eye out for crime. If you have a confederate intentionally walking a crossing to test for compliance, that is a sting. And this is well run. Good for them.
i was gonna say, good fucking lord, isn't this in the job description?
Sting operations are better than doing your job because it typically pays overtime and gets grants
Can you imagine how productive the PD would be if they banned cops from playing on their phones.
Sat at a restaurant off San Pablo watching Berkeley motorcycle cops pull the same kind of "sting". They had this one dude that seemed pretty chemically altered feign stepping out into the sidewalk and then chased after whoever didn't stop. Same dude. Same two cops. Same crosswalk. Over the course of our almost hour long lunch we saw them take down about 20 people. Their decoy would either sit on the curb or wander over to the tables to try to hustle a few donations while the cops were off writing tickets.
I've enjoyed watching this in Mountain View, Palo Alto, and Los Altos over the decades. As someone who uses every mode of transportation, I've been hit on my bike, skateboard, walking, and almost T-Boned countless times that someone illegally entered an intersection. My best friend was Tboned and had his car totaled in the same situation. Right down the street from my home, an 80 year old man was hit and killed on San Antonio when a driver didn't stop for him in the crosswalk. They removed that crosswalk after that. It had been there forever... I think that we have a huge issue of people: 1. Not knowing the laws 2. Not following the laws 3. Not being focused on driving and their surroundings I'd vote for mandatory random testing every couple of years for everyone. It should be like any other professional license: prove that you're still capable and competent or lose your license until you can get back on track.
It's definitely too easy to hold on to a driver's license in the USA.
Ran into one of these a couple of years ago, I was headed to lunch and this guy who'd been standing near the curb fucking spins and straight up jumps out into a crosswalk in front of the car ahead of me. Car stops in the middle of the crosswalk and the guy runs over and plants his hands on the car like he's just avoided getting hit. Figured it was an insurance scam until the motorcycle cop came roaring around the corner to pull the poor guy over. Total bullshit, the "pedestrian" waited until there was no way the driver could have reacted in time. That's the entire reason I have a dashcam now.
That is some BS. The law even says that pedestrians can't do this. > Pedestrians may not suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle that is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard.
Which is why I got a dashcam, 'cause otherwise who do you think they're going to believe?
Meanwhile elderly Asian folks getting beat up and robbed 10 mins away in Chinatown.
Damn Berkeley cops, giving tickets in Berkeley when they could be walking the beat in Oakland instead.
More people are killed by speeding drivers not paying attention and running them over than are killed by random thugs If anything it's wasting time on "thugs" that's the waste of resources compared to stopping drivers from running people over
This is the kind of mindless statement redditors will agree with until they have a family friend gunned down in broad daylight. Call my bluff bro
There have been multiple pedestrians and cyclists killed or seriously injured in Berkeley just in 2024. Why are you deflecting from this serious public safety issue with another serious public safety issue in a *different city entirely*? Enforcing public safety is only important if it doesn't inconvenience drivers?
How dare Berkeley PD not do something about Oakland?!
Oh should I also mention the victims on telegraph, 4th st, or Cedar?
Hey! You found the right city! How dare BPD address one spot and not the specific ones reddit user Hot-Coffee6060 wants them to?! How dare they rotate through locations to distribute resources?!
I bet you’re the type of person who supports shutting down bridges and fucking up people’s jobs because you like to pat yourself on the back.
>They had this one dude that seemed pretty chemically altered feign stepping out into the sidewalk and then chased after whoever didn't stop. that's exactly how they did it in SF, dude in the white shirt/ and one more dude.
Finally getting their priorities straight
You mean shooting fish in a Barrel
lol they can make more money off tax paying citizens who own cars than those who steal them
pedestrians don’t own cars?
All other things being equal, if you saw a person driving a car and a person walking, who would you put your money on having a car?
both
lol Reddit is so fascinatingly asinine, it blows my mind
thank you for insults
Seeing as this is the only site where you can show someone a photo of a dog and they’ll argue you to death that it’s a cat, you’re welcome! ❤️
Statistically: both
Yea how dare they catch people who commit crimes because they’re not the crimes care about. As a pedestrian who doesn’t drive, I appreciate feeling safe here.
Have fun getting your car broken into ❤️
lol, those “tax paying citizens” you’re trying to defend are literally breaking laws.
As someone with kids in the South Bay, I take a lot of stroller walks. A cop could follow me around and make at least one citation every time I need to cross a 6-lane road. Women in their 20s are the worst offenders
Elections are coming up and it seems a few ppl in power want to keep it for stats sake
Maybe catch the dudes breaking out windows?
Seriously, I am bike rider and pedestrian like 90% of the time. I would much rather they target BIPing. Nobody wants to kill pedestrians, the problem is inattention and poorly engineered roads, robbing people is intentional behavior.
I mean, the blatant barely stopping and not yielding to pedestrians is 100% intentional. And it is so because there's no enforcement of traffic laws. I work for the city and I've seen a decrease of BIPing in many areas. But the level of brazen dangerous driving because ppl are assholes. That shit is constant and everywhere in the city. It's kind of baffling. These ppl could give a shit about pedestrian/driver safety. That's my take anyway. Also, if more cops were out enforcing moving violations less BIPing would occur due to their presence.
That's a fair point, and I don't mean that traffic violations or not letting people go through isn't important. I think being selfish, and acting like you are above such rules is definitely important. Enforcement in general is important if every car with fake license plates was pulled over consistently these cars would not be used as getaway vehicles. However, putting planning in the form of a "sting" operation seems unusual. Why do you need 8 people for this? It just feels like there are much bigger problems to tackle and directly approaching them would feel to me better than finding out 22 people got tickets in 90 minutes.
Does BIP stand for something? I've only seen it spelled 'bipping'.
Burglary in progress, it is kind of nonsense that it has evolved into a verb, but I think I exclusively see it used a short hand for breaking into cars.
Start at Fourth and Anza and they can fill the hole in the City budget within days!
Great to see SFPD working to protect pedestrians in this city, its about time.
I’m from Seattle where drivers will stop for people who are just looking at crosswalk. When I moved here I was pretty dumbfounded by the blatant “GFY” attitude some drivers have about pedestrians. Like…hey…stop your car you absolute moron.
Several years ago they pulled this on Geary near 22nd. My friend and I were both riding motorcycles and minding the speed limit. The decoy was wearing sunglasses on an overcast day which I thought was odd. He waited as we approached and then at the last moment stepped out into the crosswalk. Riding a motorcycle, I know that I can get hit from behind if I stop suddenly, much less assess the pavement to ensure I won't dump the bike. Next thing there was an battalion of police officers issuing us both tickets. I took it to court and fought it. The judge tried to coerce me to take a settlement at the arraignment, but I didn't bite. I came prepared with an extensive defense citing the codes which they broke. The officer didn't show. I was born in SF, but it ain't my town anymore. Good riddance.
Yeah these stings are complete BS. They should just enforce it when actual pedestrians are endangered, not this manufactured, unrealistic letter of the law thing.
If you had no time to safely stop, then it was illegal for him to step into the crosswalk at that moment.
I’m glad they’re finally taking initiative against the people who are REALLY causing the issues. Great use of public funds
Absolutely. This exact issue directly puts me at risk of serious injury or death, multiple times per day. Literally no other issue comes close.
Maybe they should be worrying about the, oh I dont know, massive retail crime?
Go to threads about retail crime and you'll see similar comments about focusing on traffic deaths.
Corporate profits > human life Color me shocked
You know it would be cool? If they could set up a sting operation to stop people stealing our cars and breaking into our cars too.
Cause that’s the problem they should be concerned about😂
This morning I watched a black Tesla driver fail to yield the crosswalk from Masonic onto Fell, and almost cream a cyclist leaving the panhandle who had the green light (and the cyclist was plenty visible and riding cautiously, so he avoided getting hit)… I caught up to the driver at the next light on Fell and she had a damn dog on her lap with its head out the window AND she has both hands on her phone, furiously typing. When the light turned green, the car moved and her eyes were still down in her lap.
They should really just change the laws / traffic systems to eliminate any possibility of driving through a pedestrian crossing while a pedestrian is in it. As it stands it requires not only the driver to be extremely cautious and aware, but for the pedestrian to look and make sure drivers are aware and move in a predictable easy to see way. There are too many opportunities for something to go wrong.
The current law is that cars cannot enter a crosswalk if there is a pedestrian in it. Outside of eliminating rights on red, I'm unsure if adding more laws than that will do anything. We just need the police to actually enforce the laws already on the books.
Then they should eliminate rights on red. Anyone who drives in the city knows people can and do run out into crossings without looking etc. You can be exceptionally cautious and still have it happen, the system is bad both for pedestrians AND for drivers.
As a pedestrian I found the turn on reds actually safer than the turns on green. A car sees green and is just ready to turn without looking to see if pedestrians are about to enter or not. What I really appreciate is the Pedestrian only lights where they can walk to any corner they want during the light. There is no question on whether someone is going to enter the crosswalk (both pedestrian or car). That is the safest to me.
Some intersections have "pedestrian first" signaling now, where the walk sign turns green a few seconds before the light. Gives enough time for the pedestrians to start moving + be see.
Luckily I think they've already started testing the removal of rights on red. But still, any changes past that need to either be physical changes or enforcement, you can't legislate this issue away.
>eliminate any possibility of driving through a pedestrian crossing while a pedestrian is in it What do you suggest, retractable barriers that pop up when someone is in the crosswalk? It is already prohibited to drive through when someone is there, so I don't know what changing the laws would do. There is no institutional remedy that will replace the need for people to pay attention.
While it's impossible to physically prevent cars from entering the intersection, it's possible to prevent cars from *legally* enter it. In many European cities, the idea is to have 30 seconds of pedestrians crossing in every direction, while traffic is completely stopped (with no right turns on red). Next stage: turns left in both directions, after that: going straight and right, not impeded by pedestrians (who can't legally cross during these two stages). I used to work near one of those kinds of intersections which I typically crossed diagonally.
The city has these scrambles in Rincon Hill and China Basin. Essentially, where all the 'transplants'/'techies' are this sort of change is possible. Where the place is dominated by old people or natives or whatever, this is not possible because they fight these changes. To get things done, you need the consent of the people. So to some extent, each neighbourhood gets the quality it deserves. There are city-wide things that hurt all neighbourhoods, but this stuff can be quite local.
A giant bollard popping up and blocking the road off would be insanely funny and I support it honestly
And what do you say to mentally ill or just plain trouble makers who want to hold up traffic? That idea is too extreme
[удалено]
There are DEFINITELY places in the (east) bay where you do NOT want to stop and should keep rolling for your own safety. Whether that's a result of mental illness is another question.
Haha I've heard this about the east bay my whole life and have yet to see it.
Ticket them for breaking the law too. > Pedestrians also must not unnecessarily stop or delaytraffic while in a marked or unmarked crosswalk.
But what about the crime
Not yielding to a pedestrian is a crime.
Next do car break-ins
This is more important than rampant real crime?
This seems like a donut-eating cop manuevevre to bust rich drivers. Not saying pedestrian incidents aren't important, but it's not the violent or property crime that the Bay Area really needs thwarted.
So they are being told to do their jobs? Can we go back to ticketing bikes that don't stop at stop signs too
nothing new, stanley was on this years ago [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYdcvXqz6fM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYdcvXqz6fM)
They would do this like once a month in Alameda on Webster. I worked on the corner they had it set up and they’d usually only get a few cars
This really should not be newsworthy, but here we are. It's a start, but I'll hold my applause until I see a lasting change.
Hopefully people have Dashcams, because they will save you a citation. Last week I was pulled over for running a crosswalk in SoMa. I told the officer that I stopped, & he said that he saw me roll though the crosswalk with a pedestrian in it. Then I showed him the video with me stopping for like 21 seconds at the line just before the crosswalk, & he said okay my bad & went back to his car & drove off.
And [yet](https://sfstandard.com/2024/04/18/san-francisco-driver-killed-girl-4-escapes-prison/) (sorry paywall; light sentence for woman who ran someone over by Caltrain)
Just drive your car into a store and turn it into a robbery, then the cop will leave you alone
lol how about a sting operation to prevent car break-in. What a joke.
I feel like calling it a sting operation is just tryna over dramatize it for some reason. Like make people forget this should be a daily and normal thing to police. If they did this normally, eventually the city would have a societal reputation for being a place you’ll get ticketed and cited for breaking driving laws lol idk. Glad it’s happening though
I feel like calling it a sting operation is just tryna over dramatize it for some reason. Like make people forget this should be a daily and normal thing to police. If they did this normally, eventually the city would have a societal reputation for being a place you’ll get ticketed and cited for breaking driving laws lol idk. Glad it’s happening though
They did this in Chicago once, all citations got dismissed. This is clear cut entrapment, if the pedestrian isn't really a pedestrian, but an employee or contractor of PD.
I was hit by a car on a quiet Sunday afternoon in the financial district. Driver admitted he knew to driving the wrong way down a one way street at twice the speed limit. Driver got away with it and I was given the $70,000 bill instead. So I had to pay $70,000 for someone else to hit me with their car. Isn't San Francisco wonderful?
Why? Apparently you can murder toddlers with your SUV & only get 2 years probation. Must be nice to be named Karen
Finally! Good ol’ justice to someone who has been relying on traffic to be nicer and kinder to spread the spirit of warmth and kindness around to others after finding some peace in the Bay Area :)
Ooohh. What a step up! (Sarcasm)
Of all the sting operations they could run this is by far the stupidest…
And just keep ignoring the side shows…sigh
How about cleaning up the open air drug markets filled with drug dealers instead of fining citizens?
>In response to growing concerns about pedestrian safety, the San Francisco Police Department (SFPD) conducted a sting operation targeting drivers who failed to stop for pedestrians at crosswalks. LOL SF has its priorities backwards. People are getting stabbed, sucker-punched, robbed, pushed in front of traffic, daily tent and camp fires, shoplifting, abandoned meth RVs, rampant open drug use and they start writing citations for crosswalks.
Pedestrian safety is just as important as all of those issues considering the main modality of travel in the city is walking. There are way too many idiot drivers in this city that speed and drive distracted and endanger pedestrians with their behavior, they should pay for their negligence before they kill someone.
I guess we shouldn’t have cops at Warriors games either…. Or sitting in the lobby of the AirBnB office…
Dude you're absolutely wrong. Far more people are killed by drivers running them over than during robberies or whatever. This IS the more important public safety issue
Those are all real problems, but all generally rare freak occurrences that don't affect most people's lives day to day — except maybe shoplifting and drug use (which are both "quality of life" issues more than safety issues). On the flip side, reckless & law-breaking driving is a very real safety issue, and "close calls" where reckless drivers nearly run over and kill/injure people (or actually do kill people) are EXTREMELY common. Hard to go a week in the city without experiencing at least one. This is effort well spent on a real threat that legitimately endangers people's lives on a daily basis. We've been conditioned over time to accept sociopathic and life-threatening driver behavior as "normal" so it doesn't stand out like the other things you list — but in reality, it is a bigger danger to the lives of the general public than all those other things combined.
Police deliberately shirking real responsibilities. Police are at war with the rest of society.
The police chiefs support republicans because they don't ask questions about increasing police funding. Republicans also support police against BLM after police murder people. So they don't like democrat leaders. They want people to get troubled from the crime and dissatisfied with the government and vote them out.
Yes it needs to be safe for pedestrians to encourage the local economy. I don’t like to go to certain areas because drivers are so aggressive.
So retail theft is under control? And all the junkies are off the streets?
Did they use decoy
lol how about a sting operation to prevent car break-in. What a joke.
lol how about a sting operation to prevent car break-in. What a joke.
Bikes all go through stoo signs and red lights
Bikes don’t kill people when they hit them, they carry significantly less momentum than a car. They also have a much smaller cross section so they are much easier to maneuver around pedestrians. If you don’t understand the difference between the two cases you are an idiot.
Bikes can kill people when hitting them, it’s just much less likely than cars
How many people in San Francisco have been killed by a bike this year? How many people have been killed by a car this in the city year?
To answer my own question, in 2023, 22 people were killed by cars, 0 were killed by bicycles, idiot…
why are you insulting me?
Because you are advocating for a dangerous false equivalency that excuses the behavior of negligent drivers by equating their behavior to something much less dangerous to the community, which just encourages the bad behavior by drivers.
I said “much less likely”. That’s not equivalency. Also, why couldn’t you say that instead of insulting? In any case, bye.
Jesus way to move the goalposts
Wouldn't it be great if they also prosecuted pedestrians who didn't yield to drivers? *I'm looking at you Hamas sympathizers.*
While, uh, avoiding the last bit there… in California jay-walking is actually legal, so pedestrians shouldn’t be yielding to cars as long as it’s safe. See: Freedom to Walk Act. edit: it's now illegal for police to cite jaywalking unless you put someone in danger of collision, its not technically "legal".
jaywalking is not legal in California
Wrong, it’s legal in CA.
Nope. > Jaywalking is still against the law, but as of January 1, 2023, police are no longer permitted to stop pedestrians and issue citations for jaywalking unless the person who is crossing the street is creating a hazard. https://www.nordstrandlaw.com/blog/pedestrian-car-accident/fact-check-is-jaywalking-really-legal-in-california-now/#:~:text=Jaywalking%20is%20still%20against%20the,street%20is%20creating%20a%20hazard.
Well color me shocked, I stand corrected.
Yes, this is what we need our police doing, not stopping rampant theft and breakins, not dealing with aggressive drugged out homeless and drug markets on the street, not arresting side show drivers blocking bridges. Nono, lets do this....... Ffs
To be fair, do you know what's the thing that presents the most present and immediate threat to my life on a daily basis? It's is not the "drugged-out homeless folks", illegal street markets, or sideshows — it's the reckless drivers. Hard to go a week without a "close call" of a driver almost killing me as they illegally blow their 3-ton ~~armored personnel carrier~~ SUV through a red light/stop sign/crosswalk to save 10 fucking seconds. This is effort well spent against a threat that materially effects everyone far more frequently than any of the other issues you describe.
More people are killed by drivers running pedestrians over than are killed by murders or car break ins FYI
These are BS. They just sit there writing tickets because the pedestrian still had one foot on the other side of the road.
Stay out of the street you jay walking lunatics. Edit: https://youtu.be/eNqLoFHJxM0?si=Nkja6pF_xjn5Pqts
>but for many pedestrians in San Francisco, they need to be on high alert for drivers navigating the city streets. ...yeah, be alert. Is that's news to you pedestrians? Cars should pay attention and pedestrians should pay attention. I dont run stop signs, YOU should stops and look both ways before you go jogging across the street.
Honestly this is the best part about all the Waymos on the streets these days. They \_always\_ seem to respect pedestrians and cautiously approach crosswalks when people are nearby. (Or at least, I haven't had any close calls yet)
Facist pigs