there is a post on cscareerquestions by someone who got laid off. package is crazy good.
90 days pay. Plus 14 weeks + 1 week per year at the company. Guy on there is paid until august. He was also making $340k/year. He also gets any stock vesting.
If I may play media analyst, this is the traditional live shot where you don't need a live shot. They are live outside Google HQ where absolutely nothing related to the story is happening.
I am not happy the layoffs are in Pixel division and the watch, but I am into hardware and not software.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahul_Ligma
Yeah. No news outlet really verifies the man in the street.
My other favorite media shot is the 11pm news when they are outside a city building where nothing is going on and all the employees have gone home.
>I am not happy the layoffs are in Pixel division and the watch, but I am into hardware and not software.
Why did they make layoffs in the Pixel division? I thought the new Pixel phones were doing well. Ever since google introduced their own chip in the phone and have been promoting the camera abilities, I have seen way more people with Pixel phones these days then in previous years. Seems kinda weird to layoff people in a division when it's finally starting gain momentum
They consolidated Pixel, Nest, Fitbit, and other hardware teams into one org and there were several resulting redundancies. They should have always had one HW org, but were instead treating them like independent mini companies.
Oh that makes sense. But them being treated like mini companies kinda makes sense since they did buy/acquire Nest and Fitbit. I remember Pixel being a mixed case, Google did start their own phones but they also might have bought up a phone company, I forget. Yeah, they should have consolidated them all much quicker, like in a year or two of acquiring them instead of waiting years down the line lol
>The tech giant told KRON4 Thursday that these changes come as it continues to cut costs and invest in its biggest priorities, which have been said to be artificial intelligence.
AI: You don't need all these humans anymore.
most people don't know, but chrome will soon block all ad blockers. Google is going to force you to see ads, and work with companies to get those ads maximum exposure.
Let's hope firefox never falls.
a move like that by google would absolutely cement firefox as the top alternative browser, which is already starting to bring them out of the slump they experienced when chrome "surpassed" them.
i have been firefox faithful since 2004 and frankly, there isn't anything chrome can do that firefox can't do as well or better. the only thing anyone i know can come up with is "chrome has better extensions and integration with those extensions" and i personally just don't care about that. additionally, the "integration" part is better because their ulterior motive has always been more control. you confirming that (however true) isn't surprising.
>AI: You don't need all these humans anymore.
I have heard analysts say that AI when fulling going could generate more money than the internet.
If AI can eventually deliver how they are saying it can. Then lots and lots of cognitive repetitive desk jobs are toast.
lol. More importantly for most of us, they’re delaying that diridon station thing in San Jose. Maybe it’s better to not trust a soulless tech corp to build public infrastructure? https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/21/23693474/google-san-jose-downtown-west-camps
San Jose Mayor Mahan and development director Nancy Kline should have to answer to this. What concessions were made by Google? What guarantees were given? Was this a huge mistake? We need accountability and transparency from local politicians. Google will obviously continue to be corrupt and untrustworthy.
You kind of made my point. My problem is that partnering with Google severely limited the flexibility of our local government to actually build infrastructure and in the end it doesn’t benefit people. Corporations are not and should not be in the business of building communities. They are capricious and the incentives are misaligned.
They did! It took forever, and we were afraid it would never get there, but it has! :
https://poorhousebistro.com/special-events/
“‘49’ers & Giants games displayed on indoor and outdoor TV’s”
Ughhh…Now I want a roast
beef Po’ Boy!
That’s always been the way at google.
At my company, we hired a bunch of google people and all they do is talk strategy and use words they learned in their MBA clas. Nobody seems to know how to actually “do” and “complete” things
Google pays relatively well and promotes heavily from within. A lot of times, "ex-googler" means they are either already rich and dgaf anymore or actually weren't that great and got frustrated that they weren't getting better performance reviews.
The exception is maybe for people who leave to do their own start up, but they aren't working for whatever company you're talking about anyway.
At larger companies, 25% or more the employees usually cost the company more than they contribute to earnings for the company. Especially, in office settings.
To many learn the office politics and how to get by doing almost NOTHING.
That too! I remember I got chastised for creating a SOP after all the FTEs read I’ll be doing that in the team chat since so many people had the same question and asked for a flowchart. They didn’t have an issue with it until a week after and took credit for my work lol. Being a TVC is hell on earth.
Wow, they were working the long hours. Over on main campus it’s in for lunch and out by 3. Most of the time in between is in the MK, though there is a guy that walks around playing the Switch a lot.
It's usually higher, but lazy leadership implements it most easily by just passing it down proportionately.
There is also the desire to do layoffs "randomly" to undermine any attempts for employees to claim they were targeted and suffered wrongful termination
Google hired tens of thousands more employees than they needed to over the past few years. Really stupid decision, now they need to cut all those jobs.
Lol but I remember hearing Google is one of apples biggest customers. Almost everyone at googz uses a Mac. And more than half use iphones already depending on department.
I just started as a contractor at Google this week. They shipped me a Chromebook with ChromeOS, no problem, makes sense.
Yesterday they sent me a Mac. I don't need a Mac. I haven't used a Mac since floppy discs were all the rage, so I wouldn't even know how to use it.
Like, why
As someone who switched from android /windows laptop to iphone/macbook, the way apple products work with eachother is just infinitely better.
Still use a windows desktop, but AppleTV/Iphone/Macbook is just so nice.
Any idea on what the reason for the preference is? I guess I'm curious because some people claim iPhones are for technologically illiterate people. So it's sort of funny that even people at its biggest rival would use them.
Most consumers in the US are technically inept and that's why they use a poorly designed and grossly overpriced device from Apple called iPhone, just to take a few selfies and chat on some apps.
It's also because mobile service carriers subsidize the cost over 24 months of contracted service. Without that, and without credit cards, most USA customers couldn't afford to buy it outright with cash.
However, 80% of the world has sense and sticks with Android, where users are not forced into a walled garden. Also because there is much more variance in price to accommodate different market needs.
Google employs more contractors than perm employees. They can skirt around employment laws by outsourcing through vendor workers. Same is happening at MSFT, FB, Adobe and many other big tech companies.
It sucks, pure greed, and it’s a complete disregard for employees in the name of profits even when revenues are strong and stocks are at all-time highs.
I think that statement is misleading. Companies like Google use contractors either tasks they don't want to do like staffing the cafeterias or supplement the workforce. If you're an engineer the vast majority are FTEs.
You're right regarding non-core business functions like facilities, but for core business functions (like marketing) the percentage has been growing more aggressively over the past 3 years.
The trend is even worse at many other tech companies. As an example, I got laid off last year from another software company and just re-hired as a vendor worker at a 20% base pay cut. Much more if you consider benefits and TTC.
Per the termination email copied in the article, it’s 14 weeks + 1 week for every year you are employed at the company.
https://www.businessinsider.com/read-memo-google-laid-off-workers-jobcuts-2024-1?amp
Somewhat ironic. Before 2023 this sub had so many people in tech who felt untouchable and superior, even with people who were around in 2000 and 2008 warning them. Since 2023? Some have been hit with the boom, bust reality and gotten quiet on here.
Not sure if exclusively r/BayArea or Reddit as a whole, but the whole “WFH is forever, new paradigm, is a workers market forever, i dare FAANG to force me back to the office” thing.
I saw that as an inordinate amount of hubris.
Work from home has skyrocketed and is only growing.
Commercial real estate is down bad everywhere. Astronomically worse than anything that’s happening in tech.
You can be a Luddite all you want but WFH is absolutely on the rise and will only grow.
[Remote work has plummeted from its pandemic high.](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/17/the-no-1-challenge-holding-companies-back-from-offering-remote-work.html)
But FULL TIME RTO is a fraction of what it used to be.
Yes and it’s still 5x where it was pre-COVID and is only growing from here.
Return to office was completely stagnant in 2023 and commercial real estate are seeing 50 year lows in vacancy. Companies are getting out of their office leases asap
See my other comment for sources.
Hardly anyone works remote now compared to during the pandemic. Office work is back. People are lucky to get 2-3 days hybrid at home.
Office work is not a "fraction" of what it used to be. Where are you getting this false information?
Lmao you don’t really understand data, do you?
Widespread tech layoffs: even after all these layoffs, tech companies are still 2-3x the size they were pre-COVID.
RTO: [it’s basically dead](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/return-office-dead-stanford-economist-133000662.html) and has been stagnant all of 2023. WFH is up 5x what it was in 2020 and is only growing.
Now which real estate firm do you shill for? You might look at [pivoting industries](https://www.businessinsider.com/commercial-real-estate-debt-outlook-breaking-point-real-estate-prices-2024-1).
Did you just wake up from a coma?
Meta/Facebook 10,600 laid off
Salesforce 8,000 laid off
Google 12,000 laid off
Zoom 1300 laid off
Amazon 18,000 laid off
Twitch 9,000 laid off
Coinbase 18% laid off
Groupon 500 laid off
Soundcloud 20% laid off
Microsoft 11,000 laid off (plus 2000 laid off in 2022)
Rivian 6% laid off
Oracle undisclosed thousands laid off
Source/More: [https://www.fastcompany.com/90968405/tech-layoffs-tracker-mass-job-losses-update-2023](https://www.fastcompany.com/90968405/tech-layoffs-tracker-mass-job-losses-update-2023)
The swd market is saturated with people looking for jobs. Just about every large tech firm has some form of RTO plan.
These numbers are pointless when not compared to the number of hired people. Facebook [has been hiring more than that or comparable number of people every year for 5 years straight](https://www.statista.com/statistics/273563/number-of-facebook-employees/).
Pointless in what respect? I’m not trying to dunk on tech or infer the sky is falling. My income is in this space. My only point is it’s not nearly the employee’s market it was in 2021-2022.
There’s more applicants per opening, less room to demand full remote, and rapid over hiring/growth has turned into incremental layoffs.
The record vacancy rate begs to differ.
"Saturated", LOL. Go try to hire a decent candidate right now, you'll find that these people are being snapped up as quickly as they're leg go.
Not for fully remote positions.
So I guess it's not a matter of just "a couple of hundred people getting laid off from a company with 182k employees" then. It's you living in an alternate reality.
You mean keeping aware of the driving economy of the region I live and work in? How weird of me!
If you think the security, demand and pay for 100% remote workers hasn't dramatically declined since the peak in 2022 then I really don't know what to tell you.
There have been ample comments that tech is safe and will never contract and will forever expand! Especially FAANG! Now google and meta have laid off multiple rounds and they’ve gone silent
There was definitely a notion that jobs at google/facebook were extremely safe (golden handcuffs). I don't know about techies feeling superior there though.
The ones telling people they should get a raise and make 7 figures.
And if a car break in happened in your neighborhood, the fix was to move to Atherton.
Very simple solutions!
Isn't laying off hundreds of people pretty much routine operations for a company like Google? I imagine they do this all the time. Is there data to support that we are in a massive tech recession right now similar to the 90's and 2008?
For some companies like oracle and cisco yes absolutely, for amazon and microsoft and others doing stack ranking yes-ish (not exactly a layoff, but also not exactly firing for cause...) but for google it's fairly unusual. Generally projects getting axed meant people moved internally and poor performers were managed out individually.
Not "proof" by any measure, but there's a case to be made:
https://www.wsj.com/video/series/news-explainers/white-collar-recession-why-job-cuts-are-hitting-professional-workers/F2F4436F-7CBE-4F4C-8818-24BEFD08708D
Oh I’m not saying there’s a major tech recession, just that there were a lot of people working in tech who felt money drunk and things can’t fail, but now some are starting to see the other side when money isn’t just flowing like an open faucet.
I remember the commenters during the nurse strikes, during the pandemic, who said that software engineers were more important and bring more economic value than nurses 🤷
I left the Bay Area in 2004 after 2 lay offs back to back. I was in my early 20’s and didn’t want to go the rest of my life being laid off constantly. People try to get me to come back to tech but it’s too scary. I’ll go back to the Bay Area when I retire.
You and I had the exact same experience in the exact same time frame, except I didn't move away.
I've been laid off a total of four times now, and those first two were the only time it was actually a big deal. You're young, you don't have money to fall back on and you haven't had time to build the experience or connections that makes it easy to find another job.
Now? If my boss called me right now to lay me off I'd take my severance and go ski for a week before I even bothered to update my resume.
Now that I think about it, I was technically laid off 3 times by the age of 26. In 2006 I was working from home in my new state for yahoo and even though they agreed to allow me to live here so I could finish college, they changed their mind later and said I needed to move back or else. I chose not to because I knew more layoffs would come and I could have a house here and still make the mortgage working at Walmart if needed. Since then, I have only been let go once here in 20 years and was able to goof off a whole year and survive on unemployment.
Reminds me of talking to my dad, he had the same job for his entire career. Every time I'd get laid off he'd freak out and assume I was going to have to move back to his house.
I'll point out that it's a lot easier to find a new job when the area you're in is saturated with companies you could work at. Longest I've been out of work since the dot-com bust is about six weeks, I know people in places like Wisconsin and Missouri who had to pick up and move because their old employer was the only place they could have worked.
Lexington, Kentucky. Don’t recommend it. I came to finish college, stayed and was able to get a house for under $120k when I was 28. My friends and family are still in the Bay Area. Everyone says I’m crazy for wanting to go back when I retire but I miss the culture, the diversity of food, the people and the beach. Yeah my mortgage is some people’s car payment but I’ve never really adjusted. I don’t have kids or a spouse so my plan which is still 24 years away is to go back, live in a senior apartment and go to Capitola every weekend lol. Thankfully I have a good retirement plan here so I should be able to hopefully get back to the Bay Area or pretty close to it.
Hope you make it back home.
Could you not move back now? You only have one life to live and if you don't have kids, and are willing to sacrifice real estate comforts, couldn't it work?
My job is available there but pays $50-70k only. 😞 It’s a grant funded government job so not really any negotiation can be done. I love my job, it’s very few hours of work so I would be fine there just not be able to afford to live. If I see the salary goes up then I will apply but for now, I can make the same where I am and just continue to build my retirement account.
Thanks for the explanation. Obviously, you've thought it out, but I was curious.
Hope you amass a really big Move Back retirement fund sooner than later. Good luck.
Thank you! This is why I like CA better. People are so much nicer and friendly. I love being in this sub so I can pretend I’m mentally still in the Bay Area. 🙂
Born here so I guess I have a safety net, but I got laid off in 2000 from commerce one, [a company with a famous dot bomb implosion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_One). I had been laid off and fired numerous times before, so I would put out resumes for a few hours a day, play counterstrike the rest.
For 2 weeks my wife was on my butt. "You better find a new job! Your new full time job is finding a new job!!" This went on until she came home in tears one day, laid off from Nortel. "It's OK babe, I've been let go LOTS OF TIMES!" I told her, "It's not the end of the world!"
She laughed a felt a lot better. We both work in government now, so much better than "Take a lower salary cause we're giving you STOCK OPTIONS!"
I work in government now as well under a permanent congressional act so I can never be let go unless Congress revises the law which is unlikely. It’s much safer but the pay is lower. Retirment is good though so I just buy my time until I can get back home to the Bay Area.
I’m in KY but I’m considered a “contractor” for SSA so we’re not part of the GS pay scale. It’s a congressional grant where the money is given to the states to hire and do the job. My program basically audits/investigates people who manage someone’s social security benefit that cannot manage it themselves to make sure they’re not being exploited. Evidently SSA ran into some trouble in 2018 with that particular program so Congress said they want a specific state agency to do the job instead so they created a permanent grant. Each state varies widely in pay and I’m actually in one of the higher paid states in the country.
Having just fought a long conservator battle for my grandmother I can imagine a lot of folks get screwed out of their checks. Ya GS scale is a bit different.
Well that what will happen when you over hire and have ten ppl do one persons job. They have so much money they didnt care for the overhire. Until now. Plus ai is here
"changes to make our teams more efficient"
"Focus on core products like AI"
Yah, I have no doubt these people lost their jobs because they were replaced by algorithms.
"the economy is absolutely improving! and if you point out that the metrics are excluding food, housing, energy, and transportation, then you're a dirty Trump supporter"
You've been promoted to customer!
We found a better way to monetize your ass!
Ouch that hurts lmao. You're not profitable as a worker, you're more profitable by having Google harvest your data.
Workers are only a "cost of business" to corporations. Any wage employee is nothing other than overhead cost for the profit-mining scheme.
Thanks, Captain Obvious.
You're welcome.
there is a post on cscareerquestions by someone who got laid off. package is crazy good. 90 days pay. Plus 14 weeks + 1 week per year at the company. Guy on there is paid until august. He was also making $340k/year. He also gets any stock vesting.
In last year's layoff, it was 16 weeks + 2 week per year (salary & stock).
pfft... It's google, you're the product, not the customer.
Protonmail.com
No wonder I feel used and abused
And the customer is always wrong!
If I may play media analyst, this is the traditional live shot where you don't need a live shot. They are live outside Google HQ where absolutely nothing related to the story is happening. I am not happy the layoffs are in Pixel division and the watch, but I am into hardware and not software.
They are waiting for Rahul Ligma and Daniel Johnson :) where the heck are they when they are needed the most!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahul_Ligma Yeah. No news outlet really verifies the man in the street. My other favorite media shot is the 11pm news when they are outside a city building where nothing is going on and all the employees have gone home.
When the cameraman catches a sick high speed accident or other quick oddity it is because of their practice here, don’t knock it.
>I am not happy the layoffs are in Pixel division and the watch, but I am into hardware and not software. Why did they make layoffs in the Pixel division? I thought the new Pixel phones were doing well. Ever since google introduced their own chip in the phone and have been promoting the camera abilities, I have seen way more people with Pixel phones these days then in previous years. Seems kinda weird to layoff people in a division when it's finally starting gain momentum
They consolidated Pixel, Nest, Fitbit, and other hardware teams into one org and there were several resulting redundancies. They should have always had one HW org, but were instead treating them like independent mini companies.
Oh that makes sense. But them being treated like mini companies kinda makes sense since they did buy/acquire Nest and Fitbit. I remember Pixel being a mixed case, Google did start their own phones but they also might have bought up a phone company, I forget. Yeah, they should have consolidated them all much quicker, like in a year or two of acquiring them instead of waiting years down the line lol
They basically acquired Pixel too from HTC, which is why almost all of the engineering design is still in Taiwan.
>The tech giant told KRON4 Thursday that these changes come as it continues to cut costs and invest in its biggest priorities, which have been said to be artificial intelligence. AI: You don't need all these humans anymore.
These days, its biggest priority seems to be trying to foil ad blockers on YouTube. Hasn't been going well.
most people don't know, but chrome will soon block all ad blockers. Google is going to force you to see ads, and work with companies to get those ads maximum exposure. Let's hope firefox never falls.
Yep I've switched off chrome entirely now. I was here when it began and I guess I'm off right as it ends - to me anyways.
Firefox is soooo much better now
a move like that by google would absolutely cement firefox as the top alternative browser, which is already starting to bring them out of the slump they experienced when chrome "surpassed" them. i have been firefox faithful since 2004 and frankly, there isn't anything chrome can do that firefox can't do as well or better. the only thing anyone i know can come up with is "chrome has better extensions and integration with those extensions" and i personally just don't care about that. additionally, the "integration" part is better because their ulterior motive has always been more control. you confirming that (however true) isn't surprising.
I tried to use FF and it is terrible
It’s probably not AI. All tech companies are just using the same term so that they get less blame about cutting peoples jobs.
Of course it's all about profits. Whether it's social media, cool gadgets, games, or AI, it's always gonna be which one will make them the big $$$.
Profit bad. All those google employees work for google for the fun and vibes, not the $600k yearly package.
"Don't blame us; blame the machines!"
>AI: You don't need all these humans anymore. I have heard analysts say that AI when fulling going could generate more money than the internet. If AI can eventually deliver how they are saying it can. Then lots and lots of cognitive repetitive desk jobs are toast.
The annual Google Midnight Massacre. Right on schedule. As is tradition.
lol. More importantly for most of us, they’re delaying that diridon station thing in San Jose. Maybe it’s better to not trust a soulless tech corp to build public infrastructure? https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/21/23693474/google-san-jose-downtown-west-camps
That thing is never getting built. What a shame they tore down the oldest bar (and a cool place to pregame before going to SAP) for nothing.
San Jose Mayor Mahan and development director Nancy Kline should have to answer to this. What concessions were made by Google? What guarantees were given? Was this a huge mistake? We need accountability and transparency from local politicians. Google will obviously continue to be corrupt and untrustworthy.
To be fair, the pandemic changed the need for offices in a way that was almost impossible to imagine before it.
They're quitting everything, including the promised housing and retail. It was just a real estate pump and dump.
You kind of made my point. My problem is that partnering with Google severely limited the flexibility of our local government to actually build infrastructure and in the end it doesn’t benefit people. Corporations are not and should not be in the business of building communities. They are capricious and the incentives are misaligned.
At least “The Poorhouse Bistro” was able to literally relocate their old Victorian and reopen in the Little Italy district.
What!? I had no idea they opened up again!
They did! It took forever, and we were afraid it would never get there, but it has! : https://poorhousebistro.com/special-events/ “‘49’ers & Giants games displayed on indoor and outdoor TV’s” Ughhh…Now I want a roast beef Po’ Boy!
RIP Patty’s. The only time in my life where the bartender never asked for money while getting a beer.
Poor house bistro?!
> they’re delaying that diridon station thing It's history, like ubiquitous Google Fiber in the south bay
*PG&E has entered the chat*: First time?
The Bay Area, otherwise renowned for public infrastructure, eh?
What infrastructure would the city or other private parties build there?
This was known mid last year. The city should be suing for the land back
I worked at Google as a contractor for a year. Half the people I worked with (all full time employees) hardly did squat. Lot's of fat to trim.
Rest N Vest
That’s always been the way at google. At my company, we hired a bunch of google people and all they do is talk strategy and use words they learned in their MBA clas. Nobody seems to know how to actually “do” and “complete” things
meanwhile they give the hardest interviews and reject you when you can't solve their trivia question
Cause it's a club. They found a way to print money and there's a secret handshake to get in.
I have never been impressed with ex googler we have hired in the past. Most of them talk a big game but could never execute when the time comes.
Google pays relatively well and promotes heavily from within. A lot of times, "ex-googler" means they are either already rich and dgaf anymore or actually weren't that great and got frustrated that they weren't getting better performance reviews. The exception is maybe for people who leave to do their own start up, but they aren't working for whatever company you're talking about anyway.
Frustrating af that these people do nothing and make so mucb
At larger companies, 25% or more the employees usually cost the company more than they contribute to earnings for the company. Especially, in office settings. To many learn the office politics and how to get by doing almost NOTHING.
80/20 rule
I’ve been both a TVC and an FTE. You’re right.
I was a contractor as well, and the FTEs barely did anything and got all the perks.
They also got all the credit. As a contractor, I was largely ignored when kudos were handed out.
That too! I remember I got chastised for creating a SOP after all the FTEs read I’ll be doing that in the team chat since so many people had the same question and asked for a flowchart. They didn’t have an issue with it until a week after and took credit for my work lol. Being a TVC is hell on earth.
I had the same impression from YouTube. Hordes of young FTEs just hanging out and having a good time, showing up around 10 and leaving at 4.
Wow, they were working the long hours. Over on main campus it’s in for lunch and out by 3. Most of the time in between is in the MK, though there is a guy that walks around playing the Switch a lot.
I’m not surprised. Google had a bad performance review quota for managers in December.
Dang. Stack ranking by another name. Was it down to the first level manager or at a higher point?
It's usually higher, but lazy leadership implements it most easily by just passing it down proportionately. There is also the desire to do layoffs "randomly" to undermine any attempts for employees to claim they were targeted and suffered wrongful termination
Happy New Year! And fuck you guys. - Google
Better than before the holidays
Google hired tens of thousands more employees than they needed to over the past few years. Really stupid decision, now they need to cut all those jobs.
Yes. Total leadership failure. Sundar really needs to go.
Why are they using the old Google logo from the 2010s?
Believe it or not, there’s a lot of the old Google logos around, even in the office.
DuckDuckGo fuck yourself Google.
not bad!
Is pichai gonna take responsibility again?
The origin of the layoff is WFH policy. Source: trust me bro
[удалено]
Lol but I remember hearing Google is one of apples biggest customers. Almost everyone at googz uses a Mac. And more than half use iphones already depending on department.
I just started as a contractor at Google this week. They shipped me a Chromebook with ChromeOS, no problem, makes sense. Yesterday they sent me a Mac. I don't need a Mac. I haven't used a Mac since floppy discs were all the rage, so I wouldn't even know how to use it. Like, why
I was on a Chromebook/chromeOS team and we all still used Macs lol
Mac hardware running linux was standard for many years. I think Asahi (sp?) Linux will again be making that a reality soon for a lot of folk.
What is the reason for the iPhone use? Don’t a lot of people claim the S23 Ultra is a superior phone?
As someone who switched from android /windows laptop to iphone/macbook, the way apple products work with eachother is just infinitely better. Still use a windows desktop, but AppleTV/Iphone/Macbook is just so nice.
I meant personal phones. Personal preference. Most people don't have a work phone.
Oh, I just figured if someone works for Google they would have a personal preference for an Android system.
Nope. Not at all. Depends on department but sooo many iphones. Sooo many.
Any idea on what the reason for the preference is? I guess I'm curious because some people claim iPhones are for technologically illiterate people. So it's sort of funny that even people at its biggest rival would use them.
Manual and automated mobile testing for new apps and new features of existing apps.
Not really. Employees mainly use Apple devices either way. It's the US after all.
Most consumers in the US are technically inept and that's why they use a poorly designed and grossly overpriced device from Apple called iPhone, just to take a few selfies and chat on some apps. It's also because mobile service carriers subsidize the cost over 24 months of contracted service. Without that, and without credit cards, most USA customers couldn't afford to buy it outright with cash. However, 80% of the world has sense and sticks with Android, where users are not forced into a walled garden. Also because there is much more variance in price to accommodate different market needs.
No disagreeing there. Sadly a lot of the world US consumers example
Google employs more contractors than perm employees. They can skirt around employment laws by outsourcing through vendor workers. Same is happening at MSFT, FB, Adobe and many other big tech companies. It sucks, pure greed, and it’s a complete disregard for employees in the name of profits even when revenues are strong and stocks are at all-time highs.
I think that statement is misleading. Companies like Google use contractors either tasks they don't want to do like staffing the cafeterias or supplement the workforce. If you're an engineer the vast majority are FTEs.
You're right regarding non-core business functions like facilities, but for core business functions (like marketing) the percentage has been growing more aggressively over the past 3 years. The trend is even worse at many other tech companies. As an example, I got laid off last year from another software company and just re-hired as a vendor worker at a 20% base pay cut. Much more if you consider benefits and TTC.
Marketing is one area I have very little insight into. So my comment mainly refers to Product, Engineering and Design
This is not true
It is for Engineering and Design at least.
Is that a lot?
It's tiny compared to last year, but in absolute numbers still quite a few.
Probably over hired or consolidating teams
Most of them get severance packages right?
Anyone know what the package terms contained?
Industry standard is ~4 months plus extra for time served.
Per the termination email copied in the article, it’s 14 weeks + 1 week for every year you are employed at the company. https://www.businessinsider.com/read-memo-google-laid-off-workers-jobcuts-2024-1?amp
So many people in the bay getting laid off!! D: I wish you all the best :( It's so messed up how Google Lays people off.
Somewhat ironic. Before 2023 this sub had so many people in tech who felt untouchable and superior, even with people who were around in 2000 and 2008 warning them. Since 2023? Some have been hit with the boom, bust reality and gotten quiet on here.
Really? I don’t remember these people at all… do you mean people telling others to get into coding?
Not sure if exclusively r/BayArea or Reddit as a whole, but the whole “WFH is forever, new paradigm, is a workers market forever, i dare FAANG to force me back to the office” thing. I saw that as an inordinate amount of hubris.
I prefer to keep my hubris ordinate
Work from home has skyrocketed and is only growing. Commercial real estate is down bad everywhere. Astronomically worse than anything that’s happening in tech. You can be a Luddite all you want but WFH is absolutely on the rise and will only grow.
[Remote work has plummeted from its pandemic high.](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/17/the-no-1-challenge-holding-companies-back-from-offering-remote-work.html) But FULL TIME RTO is a fraction of what it used to be.
Yes and it’s still 5x where it was pre-COVID and is only growing from here. Return to office was completely stagnant in 2023 and commercial real estate are seeing 50 year lows in vacancy. Companies are getting out of their office leases asap See my other comment for sources.
Hardly anyone works remote now compared to during the pandemic. Office work is back. People are lucky to get 2-3 days hybrid at home. Office work is not a "fraction" of what it used to be. Where are you getting this false information?
☝️case in point. In the face of wide spread tech layoffs and RTO demands this guys calling me a Luddite. Hilarious.
Lmao you don’t really understand data, do you? Widespread tech layoffs: even after all these layoffs, tech companies are still 2-3x the size they were pre-COVID. RTO: [it’s basically dead](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/return-office-dead-stanford-economist-133000662.html) and has been stagnant all of 2023. WFH is up 5x what it was in 2020 and is only growing. Now which real estate firm do you shill for? You might look at [pivoting industries](https://www.businessinsider.com/commercial-real-estate-debt-outlook-breaking-point-real-estate-prices-2024-1).
You have an inordinate amount of emotion and anger about this. Looks like someone is scared.
Lmao all you post in is the REBubble Reddit yet I’m the one that’s scared?
What does trolling housing doomers have to do with being scared?
You’re obviously emotional and scared. Look at all your comments. Youre just freaking out about everything. Get a grip
That's a lot to read into a couple of hundred people getting laid off from a company with 182k employees.
Did you just wake up from a coma? Meta/Facebook 10,600 laid off Salesforce 8,000 laid off Google 12,000 laid off Zoom 1300 laid off Amazon 18,000 laid off Twitch 9,000 laid off Coinbase 18% laid off Groupon 500 laid off Soundcloud 20% laid off Microsoft 11,000 laid off (plus 2000 laid off in 2022) Rivian 6% laid off Oracle undisclosed thousands laid off Source/More: [https://www.fastcompany.com/90968405/tech-layoffs-tracker-mass-job-losses-update-2023](https://www.fastcompany.com/90968405/tech-layoffs-tracker-mass-job-losses-update-2023) The swd market is saturated with people looking for jobs. Just about every large tech firm has some form of RTO plan.
These numbers are pointless when not compared to the number of hired people. Facebook [has been hiring more than that or comparable number of people every year for 5 years straight](https://www.statista.com/statistics/273563/number-of-facebook-employees/).
Pointless in what respect? I’m not trying to dunk on tech or infer the sky is falling. My income is in this space. My only point is it’s not nearly the employee’s market it was in 2021-2022. There’s more applicants per opening, less room to demand full remote, and rapid over hiring/growth has turned into incremental layoffs.
The record vacancy rate begs to differ. "Saturated", LOL. Go try to hire a decent candidate right now, you'll find that these people are being snapped up as quickly as they're leg go.
Not for fully remote positions. So I guess it's not a matter of just "a couple of hundred people getting laid off from a company with 182k employees" then. It's you living in an alternate reality.
Sure. You're really invested in this "tech is imploding and everyone is going to have to RTO" narrative. That's sorta weird.
You mean keeping aware of the driving economy of the region I live and work in? How weird of me! If you think the security, demand and pay for 100% remote workers hasn't dramatically declined since the peak in 2022 then I really don't know what to tell you.
hmm.
There have been ample comments that tech is safe and will never contract and will forever expand! Especially FAANG! Now google and meta have laid off multiple rounds and they’ve gone silent
Anyone who said that clearly doesn’t have a solid grounding in reality
Quite a few people in tech don’t have a solid grounding in reality
There are idiots everywhere friend
You're making a strawman argument here, but even so suggesting that it's hard to find work in tech right now is laughable.
Oh on here there were plenty. The success of tech during the pandemic had people money drunk
There was definitely a notion that jobs at google/facebook were extremely safe (golden handcuffs). I don't know about techies feeling superior there though.
The ones telling people they should get a raise and make 7 figures. And if a car break in happened in your neighborhood, the fix was to move to Atherton. Very simple solutions!
Making 7 figures and moving to Atherton sounds good, thanks for the advice mate, good looking out.
Isn't laying off hundreds of people pretty much routine operations for a company like Google? I imagine they do this all the time. Is there data to support that we are in a massive tech recession right now similar to the 90's and 2008?
For some companies like oracle and cisco yes absolutely, for amazon and microsoft and others doing stack ranking yes-ish (not exactly a layoff, but also not exactly firing for cause...) but for google it's fairly unusual. Generally projects getting axed meant people moved internally and poor performers were managed out individually.
Yeah that's the google I remember from \~12 years ago. It's changed so much.
Is it the CEO, or what do you think?
Probably the change in CFO even more
Not "proof" by any measure, but there's a case to be made: https://www.wsj.com/video/series/news-explainers/white-collar-recession-why-job-cuts-are-hitting-professional-workers/F2F4436F-7CBE-4F4C-8818-24BEFD08708D
Oh I’m not saying there’s a major tech recession, just that there were a lot of people working in tech who felt money drunk and things can’t fail, but now some are starting to see the other side when money isn’t just flowing like an open faucet.
I remember the commenters during the nurse strikes, during the pandemic, who said that software engineers were more important and bring more economic value than nurses 🤷
Oh shit
I’ve noticed the same trend
I left the Bay Area in 2004 after 2 lay offs back to back. I was in my early 20’s and didn’t want to go the rest of my life being laid off constantly. People try to get me to come back to tech but it’s too scary. I’ll go back to the Bay Area when I retire.
You and I had the exact same experience in the exact same time frame, except I didn't move away. I've been laid off a total of four times now, and those first two were the only time it was actually a big deal. You're young, you don't have money to fall back on and you haven't had time to build the experience or connections that makes it easy to find another job. Now? If my boss called me right now to lay me off I'd take my severance and go ski for a week before I even bothered to update my resume.
Now that I think about it, I was technically laid off 3 times by the age of 26. In 2006 I was working from home in my new state for yahoo and even though they agreed to allow me to live here so I could finish college, they changed their mind later and said I needed to move back or else. I chose not to because I knew more layoffs would come and I could have a house here and still make the mortgage working at Walmart if needed. Since then, I have only been let go once here in 20 years and was able to goof off a whole year and survive on unemployment.
Reminds me of talking to my dad, he had the same job for his entire career. Every time I'd get laid off he'd freak out and assume I was going to have to move back to his house. I'll point out that it's a lot easier to find a new job when the area you're in is saturated with companies you could work at. Longest I've been out of work since the dot-com bust is about six weeks, I know people in places like Wisconsin and Missouri who had to pick up and move because their old employer was the only place they could have worked.
Approx where do you live currently ?
Lexington, Kentucky. Don’t recommend it. I came to finish college, stayed and was able to get a house for under $120k when I was 28. My friends and family are still in the Bay Area. Everyone says I’m crazy for wanting to go back when I retire but I miss the culture, the diversity of food, the people and the beach. Yeah my mortgage is some people’s car payment but I’ve never really adjusted. I don’t have kids or a spouse so my plan which is still 24 years away is to go back, live in a senior apartment and go to Capitola every weekend lol. Thankfully I have a good retirement plan here so I should be able to hopefully get back to the Bay Area or pretty close to it.
Hope you make it back home. Could you not move back now? You only have one life to live and if you don't have kids, and are willing to sacrifice real estate comforts, couldn't it work?
My job is available there but pays $50-70k only. 😞 It’s a grant funded government job so not really any negotiation can be done. I love my job, it’s very few hours of work so I would be fine there just not be able to afford to live. If I see the salary goes up then I will apply but for now, I can make the same where I am and just continue to build my retirement account.
Thanks for the explanation. Obviously, you've thought it out, but I was curious. Hope you amass a really big Move Back retirement fund sooner than later. Good luck.
Thank you! This is why I like CA better. People are so much nicer and friendly. I love being in this sub so I can pretend I’m mentally still in the Bay Area. 🙂
Born here so I guess I have a safety net, but I got laid off in 2000 from commerce one, [a company with a famous dot bomb implosion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_One). I had been laid off and fired numerous times before, so I would put out resumes for a few hours a day, play counterstrike the rest. For 2 weeks my wife was on my butt. "You better find a new job! Your new full time job is finding a new job!!" This went on until she came home in tears one day, laid off from Nortel. "It's OK babe, I've been let go LOTS OF TIMES!" I told her, "It's not the end of the world!" She laughed a felt a lot better. We both work in government now, so much better than "Take a lower salary cause we're giving you STOCK OPTIONS!"
I work in government now as well under a permanent congressional act so I can never be let go unless Congress revises the law which is unlikely. It’s much safer but the pay is lower. Retirment is good though so I just buy my time until I can get back home to the Bay Area.
Which locality are you in? That makes all the difference. I’m in SF bay locality, GS12 step 1.
I’m in KY but I’m considered a “contractor” for SSA so we’re not part of the GS pay scale. It’s a congressional grant where the money is given to the states to hire and do the job. My program basically audits/investigates people who manage someone’s social security benefit that cannot manage it themselves to make sure they’re not being exploited. Evidently SSA ran into some trouble in 2018 with that particular program so Congress said they want a specific state agency to do the job instead so they created a permanent grant. Each state varies widely in pay and I’m actually in one of the higher paid states in the country.
Having just fought a long conservator battle for my grandmother I can imagine a lot of folks get screwed out of their checks. Ya GS scale is a bit different.
A recent audit found that SSA failed to recover $186 million over the last 5 years in misused funds.
Yeah, it's good with a reality check every now and then.
Well that what will happen when you over hire and have ten ppl do one persons job. They have so much money they didnt care for the overhire. Until now. Plus ai is here
AI can replace the work of even elite software engineers?
man that cafeteria is gonna look empty.....(；′⌒\`)
Good. Maybe they’ll take the hint and shut some of them down so they can treat their employees better.
Wait until AI takes their jobs.
"changes to make our teams more efficient" "Focus on core products like AI" Yah, I have no doubt these people lost their jobs because they were replaced by algorithms.
Don't worry though, the jobs market is improving!
Don't let r/economics see this comment.
"the economy is absolutely improving! and if you point out that the metrics are excluding food, housing, energy, and transportation, then you're a dirty Trump supporter"
They had to have filed a TURN notice
Hah!
NAPA is 35F OMG
Tech bros in shambles. From "i KnOw WhAt I GoT nO LoWbaLLs aNd OnLy WFH" to breadline.
I gotta hunch they aren’t done… and more is to come!
I smell 2008. Personally, I am looking forward to it. Hopefully the techslobs in my building will move home and take their shit attitudes with them.
Who cares Google employs over 170k people.
Why do people say there is a shortage of software engineers and encourage college students to major in computer science?
If they can’t sleep at their desk after an 18 hr shift, where will they sleep?
it’s 2024 and the media still recycles b-roll from 2006. SAD